Not Voting: Azrael, Rhinocero, Sgdre, Sorryguy, Leilani, Silicon, Creampuffeater, Axelrod, WoLG, Jobie, MoT
20 Alive, 11 to lynch
Yes, the deadline is retractable, but I would rather not have to and get the day over with. It would take some good convincing to get it moved, and at most you would get a week more.
Notes about deadline:
Most votes @ deadline is lynched.
If 2 people are tied at deadline, both are lynched.
There is no minimum # of votes needed.
If No Lynch is tied with a player, the player is lynched.
@ armlx: The vote count is incorrect, Xyre just voted for me
@ puzzle: Ok, here are the people that seems scummy to me...
1) Puzzle. Im going to start out by saying that this is not an OMGUS vote. Your vote on ikker was confusing at best, and like axel I am still awaiting a complete explanation of this vote. The main issue it that I cannot understand your continued attack on me. While I admit (and have admitted) that some of your points were valid, you exagerated many things. For example, you completely made up the fact that I said that Xyre being a newb would make him more likely to be town. I feel that I have answered every question that you have posed to me, and yet you will not move on. For a while I was considering the possibility of you being a non-sane cop, but it seems less likely as time goes by. Your extremely long posts in your attack on me do little except to make it harder to follow the thread.
2) Xyre. Duh. Also, his recent actions have done little to convince me that he is pro-town.
3) CropCirlces. His actions (particularly in the early game) have not really been helpful for the town. Also, I agree with Axel that he pushed the Xyre wagon while not on it himself (push may be a little strong).
4) Ikker. I just dont get what is going on with this guy. His posts make me go "huh?". PPE: Actually, never mind. I just reread all of his posts (a whopping 8) and they werent that bad.
5) swinkee. Not a particularly strong feeling of scummyness, but cmon, get posting.
As for my scumminess. I have a question. If I was trying to distance myself from the wagon in post 255, why would I even make post 250? Are people saying that I only realized that the wagon was losing steam in post 252 and that is why i changed my mind? This is not the case. Azrael had already started to attack the wagon before post 250. It was already losing steam before I unvoted.
Also, a piece of information that I would not have revealed were it not for the deadline (and apologies if this is an inopportune moment, but I want us to get the best chance at finding scum): My role should enable me to confirm myself as nonscum before the endgame.
I don't even understand -why- the Xyre wagon got off track. THe "stevie" defence isn't really a valid one: I think he looks like the worst target right now.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
I don't even understand -why- the Xyre wagon got off track. THe "stevie" defence isn't really a valid one: I think he looks like the worst target right now.
It wasn't only the Steve defense, it was also the speed of the wagon. I however am with you that i still think he’s scummy. I also still thing sgdre is scummy. I'm not sure whom I dislike more at this point. Xyre is a complete newb and makes posts I find annoying (not as bad as mot however) more importantly he claimed under very little pressure and suggested a no lynch. sgdres case has been reviewed many times and I don’t feel like repeating it. I think I’d be happier with xyre out of the 2, and if no new information surfaces by the deadline I think he’s our best lynch.
Does anyone have any idea how to go about gathering more information? Axel’s review of the thread is helpful, but its not adding much new content something we need.
I'm sorry, I really haven't been living up to my commitment this game. I will try to be more active from here on in, but I can't make any promises until next week when my exam period is over.
I do agree that today is between Xyre and sgdre. Something really astounding would have to happen for one of them not to go. Between those two, I still have to stick with sgdre. Him hopping off the wagon in post #255 is too convenient should Xyre be a townie. Either he gets lynched anyway and sgdre looks good for getting off the wagon, or the town follows him and he looks good for being the first to jump.
And sgdre, the reason for post #250 was to help ensure that Xyre gets lynched. Azrael hadn't really posted an arguement defending Xyre yet, just one advising caution and trying to detract a speed-lynch. I actually felt your post did a good job of countering that and keeping people fired up about the wagon. It wasn't until after Az posted a real defence that you immediately had the change of heart.
All that said, if the town wants, I am willing to change my vote to Xyre in order to see if this eventual claim of sgdre's pans out. I would be happier with the sgdre lynch, but I can understand people wanting to get rid of the person with a role that cannot be corroborated over the person who claims to be able to clear himself.
Also, FoS:Puzzle for withholding information about me. Also, it initial case on sgdre was a little overstated, but sgdre's responses have got me leaning in Puzzle's favour.
That's irrelevant, sgdre. The point is that your behavior is annoying at the least, and if I have to vote, you're the scummiest person here. Considering the deadline, I think a Vote Sgdre is definitely in order. I just think that you're actions and accusations are meriting notice, if not punishment.
You ignored my questions in 415:
I do have two questions for you though, seeing as your online:
Being newer to mafia what was your reaction when you first saw you were vanilla? Did you realize that the claim was not the best?
And did you know that John Smith was a general role? Did it surprise you that it was Jon and not John?
Just general questions. They prove nothing and are more out of curoscity than anything.
Thank you for answering them in your next post. You are still most scummy to me if it comes to a deadline. I would hope to go after someone esle however. sgdre does look a little scummy but all I have done is FOS him, I just do not see the solid case that Puzzle is so loudly preaching.
@Axel: Do you actully want me to answer those questions?
I agree with Fayul about the why forget Xyre. He has faded out of the spotlight which is now taken by the even more scummy SGdre. Right now this is a tough choice, but I think Sgdre deserves my vote right now, vote Sgdre. I think that your scum list was almost the same as mine except your on mine and not yours.
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
How can you vote for me if I am able to confirm myself? That doesnt make sense. If I am not confirmed by the end game then I am an obvious lynch. I am going to assume that you (creampuffeater) didnt read my post about that, but FOS creampuffeater just to be safe.
Sorry for not posting as often i wanted, having no time sucks. Yes i hve look at the site and not posting. * magicianofthought states that I will post every time i log on.
I will do my best to hold this as often as possable.
I don't think he's even close. For example, he was last online today, at 7:32 p.m. And then this:
Puzzle's PBPA: helps: ummm VOTE: sdjre to pressure a claim out him. If this dose not turn into something i will unvote.
Bandwagon vote not helping his cause any.
I don't know if I can accurately summarize Puzzle's attack on sgdre. Seems to be:
(1) sgdre says Chamber is clearer because of his deduction that all/most townies have scummy names. He says only a townie with a scummy name could have drawn that conclusion. Puzzle says not true.
(2) sgdre voted Xyre after Xyre had completely claimed, saying it was to "pressure" him. sgdre admits it was a poor choice of words, says he just meant to keep up the pressure because Xyre was the most suspicious in his eyes.
(3) sgdre unvotes Xyre 1 post after stating that he doesn't think Xyre should live through the day unless something odd happens. sgdre claims he was right on the verge of unvoting even as he made that post, and wasn't just following along with Azreal, who had defended Xyre in-between the posts. Puzzle says, um, bull****.
(4) I think Puzzle also thinks sgdre is trying to get on the good side of several townies.
Quote from Jobie in post#318 »
Part of me thinks that either Puzzle or Az is Scum. Why? because if you were both town (I'm going back to Epee/Puzzle from 8-bit) you would be agreeing, or if you were both scum you would both agree (the latter is closer to true). Anyone agree?
Some would call that a false dilemma. I don't think that's a correct use of the term, as he's making it more a personal belief than asserting it as fact. But, in general, I don't agree with this point.
Quote from Chamber in post #319 »
I don't have any hidden information.
Clarifies he doesn't "know" anything about Azreal, which Puzzle thought earlier.
Quote from Ikerr in post #320 »
Overall, I'm not happy with sgdre's reponses to his actions on the Xyre wagon and a willing to Vote: sgdre at this point
Ikerr reappears to join the sgdre wagon. Follows Puzzle's points fairly closely. Most suspicious of sgdre's insistance that he wasn't trying to get Xyre lynched with his post #250.
Jobie also joins the bandwaggon in post #323. But then immediately unvotes after one most post from sgdre.
Quote from Xyre in post #328 »
I've been wondering why Azrael so quickly joined my "wagon". Perhaps that was intentional. In fact, considering the fact that he wouldn't be targeted for bandwagoning, plus the recent suspicions, Unvote, Vote Azrael.
Here Xyre shows little understanding of what is actually going on in the thread.
I am uneasy with the aggressive way Puzzle continues to pursue sgdre.
Quote from Azreal in post #342 »
He never questions his intelligence in that post: he questions Chamber's ability to read minds.
Here he's defending sgdre against Puzzle's allegations. I'm not sure whether Azreal is agreeing that Chamber would have to be a mind reader to make his deduction that all/most townies have scummy names from Azreal's initial comment, or whether Azreal is just saying that's what sgdre was arguing. I would disagree with the first point if that's what he meant. The second point is not really debatable. Sgdre says he meant one thing. Puzzle says it sounded like something else to him.
Quote from Puzzle in post #343 »
I AM NOT THE FOURTH FAN. I NEVER, EVER FRIGGING SEMI-CLAIM or HIDE CLAIM.
What have I said again ?...
Actually, yes, where is my semi-claim ?
No you don't "hide" claims, but you are perfectly willing to make vague/suggestive/cryptic remarks and comments, that clearly indicate some kind of knowledge (re: Ikerr vote), but then decline to explain them. That's so much better....
Quote from SorryGuy in post #344 »
Well I really wish I knew what to think. I still think that Xyre is the most scummy player here but I will except it is possible that he is a newb. FOS: Xyre. Also sgdre does seem a little scummy but his mistakes seem alot more newb town than scum, unlike Xyre in my opinion, and so he will also get a FOS. FOS: sgdre
All in all I have been lurking the last two days because I am unsure what to think. The Puzzle/Az exchanges are interesting but I do not think either has said anything compormising and I think they are both probably town.
SorryGuy waffles. FOSing both top vote-getters. Says Xyre is more scummy than sgdre.
Quote from Chamber in post #349 »
I have avoided commenting on sgdre's case up until now, because, well, it’s a lot of work to comment at this point. I was suspicious of sgdre before puzzle brought the case before the town for many of the same reasons, but felt he hadn’t done anything to kill himself yet. By not mentioning it to the town I hopped he would make more mistakes that would incriminate him further. With that said, by bringing the case to the towns attention puzzle seems to have caught sgdre in a fairly bad contradiction. I will give him time to explain, however if an acceptable answer isn’t provided I think he will be by far the best lynch we could hope for on day one.
Chamber agrees that sgdre's "contradiction" is a strong point against him. Waits to see what he has to say specifically about that.
Quote from sgdre in post #350 »
Well, luckily for me, this is not a lie. When I say "Wise words Az," I am refering to post 252....This was before Az (or anyone else) responded to my post 250. I was being 100% honest when I said that I had not read post 253 (which occured 12 minutes later) when I made my unvote. That said, I did forget that I had read a post of Az's before inbetween 250 and 255 and I apologize for any confusion it may have caused.
Sgdre explains the "contradiction."
EWP: stepping outside this review to comment for a moment on what is going on in the thread right now, may I just say, sgdre, that claiming you can "confirm" yourself by the end of the game, and therefore that you should not be lynched, is flat out ridiculous. We are supposed to just take your word for it? And give you a free pass for how long? Because you say so? Surely you can see that's wrong.
I don't mean to accuse you by this post either, because I'm feeling there are several better targets than you right now. But that's just wrong.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Sorry for any confusion. I am not saying that I can clear myself before the end of the game. I am saying that I can clear myself before the endgame. Essentially I am trying to say that I should be able to confirm myself within a few days (I would be suprised if I couldnt do it before day 4).
Sorry for any confusion. I am not saying that I can clear myself before the end of the game. I am saying that I can clear myself before the endgame. Essentially I am trying to say that I should be able to confirm myself within a few days (I would be suprised if I couldnt do it before day 4).
Sorry for any confusion. I am not saying that I can clear myself before the end of the game. I am saying that I can clear myself before the endgame. Essentially I am trying to say that I should be able to confirm myself within a few days (I would be suprised if I couldnt do it before day 4).
Oh...Semi-Claims on Day 1. At this point I can see why you did it, there was a bit of pressure there, much more so than Xyre. Without giving away too much this makes me less suspsious of you. So I guess what I am saying is I support his claim to some extent.
Thats a very long time. Give us a definate time.
That could be said to be trying to get information. However in this situation I would agree. Can you be any more specific on time? I know mine is definate.
I realize that I am being very unspecific, but I think that the more specific I get, the less likely that I will be successful. I would rather leave it at that for now.
I'm sorry, I really haven't been living up to my commitment this game. I will try to be more active from here on in, but I can't make any promises until next week when my exam period is over.
I do agree that today is between Xyre and sgdre. Something really astounding would have to happen for one of them not to go. Between those two, I still have to stick with sgdre. Him hopping off the wagon in post #255 is too convenient should Xyre be a townie. Either he gets lynched anyway and sgdre looks good for getting off the wagon, or the town follows him and he looks good for being the first to jump.
And sgdre, the reason for post #250 was to help ensure that Xyre gets lynched. Azrael hadn't really posted an arguement defending Xyre yet, just one advising caution and trying to detract a speed-lynch. I actually felt your post did a good job of countering that and keeping people fired up about the wagon. It wasn't until after Az posted a real defence that you immediately had the change of heart.
All that said, if the town wants, I am willing to change my vote to Xyre in order to see if this eventual claim of sgdre's pans out. I would be happier with the sgdre lynch, but I can understand people wanting to get rid of the person with a role that cannot be corroborated over the person who claims to be able to clear himself.
Also, FoS:Puzzle for withholding information about me. Also, it initial case on sgdre was a little overstated, but sgdre's responses have got me leaning in Puzzle's favour.
You don't think it'd be possible to move on to a lynch of someone else, like say...you? Hypothetically speaking, of course.
Aaahh ! The semi-claim... Seeing what you say later (clear by day 4 etc...), it is clearly that you are claiming an information-gatherer, i.e. cop or watcher. If you are scum, it could be a rattle-snake effect to prevent the town from forcing you to claim but if you are town and the mafia has half a neurone in total, it's clear for them anyway. At this point, I really don't see any reason for you not to claim clearly instead of leaving us the doubt that you may try to keep options open.
Anyway, a cop or watcher claim will get you a guarantee of no-lynch for a couple of days and won't tell the mafia much more than they already know.
Of course, should you be counter-claimed,...
Not much to add to the game, just that I thought the same thing about the information gatherer, but I wasn’t sure I should reveal it or not, because I almost got my head chopped off last time I revealed something I saw.
@SorryGuy-Didn't see them. Sorry. Anyways, considering that my other mafia is still running, and there are people in both, I will not answer the question directly. But I dislike vanilla roles in general-I think armlx made it "Jon Smith" on purpose, and I was disappointed, but I take what I get.
I don't think people wanted to lynch you for analyzing a situation. The problem with your early play, as far as I'm concerned, was your apparent eagerness to look nice and possibly jump on the bad-name claimers wagon.
However, talking about something that is fine as long as you didn't bring out much information that scums can use (like the "bad-sounding" name on townies being revealed a bit too early to my taste, for example).
"Revealing something you saw" something already is not the reason people "jumped" at you (and there was not even a wagon as far as I can see). It was more because the way you analyzed the situation sounded like you wanted a part in the looking-nice team that brought forward the bad-names on townies.
Now on topic, there is nothing to gain by keeping Sgdre's claim partial. If he's town, the scums know what they need to know : that he can gather information against them. So, I'd like to hear why anyone would object a full claim now (maybe not results yet).
Incase it wasn't clear, I support the idea that sgdre should full cliam.
This is still really, really, really weird. I do think that this SGD (that a good enough abbrev?) thing is the best option right now, despite the fact that he seems to be claiming a gatherer role. I agree that a full-claim is order for him.
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You don't think it'd be possible to move on to a lynch of someone else, like say...you? Hypothetically speaking, of course.
I think it would be possible, just fairly difficult with the amount of people on either sgdre's or Xyre's cases. I do feel that something major would have to happen for people to look away from our scummiest 2 players.
As for the 3rd thing I underlined, I said exactly the contrary, but I'm ready to assume that's what you meant. [/qoute]
It was, my bad.
[QUOTE] Finally, why should I move on ? I feel well here.
I think you should move on because I claimed the ability to clear myself. I am a clear lynch in a later day if I cant.
You're forgetting that he is very likely innocent, according to your early analysis.
This analysis was obviously invalidated by Armlx saying that he rolled for Ikkers role. I havent suggested it since. Cmon.
Agreed.
We agree? YAY! O wait, its on lurker posting :-(
Aaahh ! The semi-claim... Seeing what you say later (clear by day 4 etc...), it is clearly that you are claiming an information-gatherer, i.e. cop or watcher. If you are scum, it could be a rattle-snake effect to prevent the town from forcing you to claim but if you are town and the mafia has half a neurone in total, it's clear for them anyway. At this point, I really don't see any reason for you not to claim clearly instead of leaving us the doubt that you may try to keep options open.
Anyway, a cop or watcher claim will get you a guarantee of no-lynch for a couple of days and won't tell the mafia much more than they already know.
Of course, should you be counter-claimed,...
I never claimed that I am an information gatherer. Just that I am able to clear myself. As the rest of your analysis is based on that, Im going to leave it at that.
If people really want me to claim (read the people who arent already on my wagon, I know you guys do) then I will, but claiming makes me less able to clear myself. Wouldnt it be better for me to be able to clear myself when it is advantageous to the town instead of claiming on day 1? I do not think that forcing a claim out of me right now is the best move.
[QUOTE=sgdreI never claimed that I am an information gatherer. Just that I am able to clear myself. As the rest of your analysis is based on that, Im going to leave it at that.
If people really want me to claim (read the people who arent already on my wagon, I know you guys do) then I will, but claiming makes me less able to clear myself. Wouldnt it be better for me to be able to clear myself when it is advantageous to the town instead of claiming on day 1? I do not think that forcing a claim out of me right now is the best move.[/QUOTE]
We assume you’re an information gatherer because it’s the only conventional role that could clear its self eventually but not by a set date.
I dislike giving Sgdre a pass, because it's basically saying we won't lynch him for ever. I mean, eventually, we get fed up, but by then it's day six and we're probably all dead. He can just go on saying "Wait, wait, wait another day before lynching me." So unless he gives us a concrete deadline for being able to clear himself, I favor lynching now. In fact, I view his statements on this as quite scummy UNLESS he gives us a concrete deadline.
VOTE Sgdre until he gives us a better deadline.
Note that I do not want you to claim until I am sure that you CANNOT POSSIBLY give us a date by which you can clear yourself. You give us a day, ima gouda.
Now on topic, there is nothing to gain by keeping Sgdre's claim partial. If he's town, the scums know what they need to know : that he can gather information against them. So, I'd like to hear why anyone would object a full claim now (maybe not results yet).
You are making quite a large assumption here. You can't be certain what his role is or what it does. But let me ask you this: assume sgdre "claims" and does claim the Cop/watcher role you are assuming he has. Would you be satisfied? Would that be enough to cause you to unvote him?
If it would, since you are assuming it already, why do you even need to hear him say it? You should now be treating him as if he has already claimed it.
So, you still want to lynch a potential Cop/watcher? If he's lying, the "real" Cop/Watcher will no doubt be on his case, but we don't especially want those roles revealed on Day 1, do we?
For those who don't believe there's "time" to look at anyone else, may I refer you to LoTR mafia, where the town made a complete turnaround less than 24 hrs from deadline and lynched correctly just by using good analysis.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Xyre: Oh, okay, my bad. I did not mean to comprimise your other games. So basicly you knew you had a generic vanilla townie role when you got your role?
@sgdre: You are almost claiming already. If we have a doc then I think you can claim. Do whatever you think is best for the town. If you are about to be lynched and it would help the town to claim, well then obviously, you want to claim.
In general I am just hanging out, a little bored with this game right now.
EVDP: Sorry for not previewing. I am fore that Axelrod as Xyre has been acting townish as of late and sgdre is just not obv obv teh omg scum. If you have any ideas I am willing to listen. We need to get our lurkers in here to begin with...
I dislike giving Sgdre a pass, because it's basically saying we won't lynch him for ever. I mean, eventually, we get fed up, but by then it's day six and we're probably all dead. He can just go on saying "Wait, wait, wait another day before lynching me." So unless he gives us a concrete deadline for being able to clear himself, I favor lynching now. In fact, I view his statements on this as quite scummy UNLESS he gives us a concrete deadline.
VOTE Sgdre until he gives us a better deadline.
Note that I do not want you to claim until I am sure that you CANNOT POSSIBLY give us a date by which you can clear yourself. You give us a day, ima gouda.
Rhino, I already said that I should be able to do it by day 4. I cannot give you an absolutely definate deadline, but I would understand a lynch if I couldnt do it by day 4.
I'm sorry, maybe I'm just overestimating how difficult it would be to change people's minds before the deadline, especially in light of Axelrod's comment. By all means, if you have other leads present them.
I don't feel to comfortable giving sgdre another 3 days before we get back to him. That is too much time to come up with something with his mafia buddies, especially if one of them has a watcher or similar role. He could also hope that we just forget about it by then. If he said that he could clear himself by tomorrow, I might have given it a chance, but I think that day 4 is just too far away.
Ah. You want the Cop/Watcher to counterclaim. I see.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I'm sorry, maybe I'm just overestimating how difficult it would be to change people's minds before the deadline, especially in light of Axelrod's comment. By all means, if you have other leads present them.
Quote from Rhinocero »
I dislike giving Sgdre a pass, because it's basically saying we won't lynch him for ever. I mean, eventually, we get fed up, but by then it's day six and we're probably all dead. He can just go on saying "Wait, wait, wait another day before lynching me." So unless he gives us a concrete deadline for being able to clear himself, I favor lynching now. In fact, I view his statements on this as quite scummy UNLESS he gives us a concrete deadline.
VOTE Sgdre until he gives us a better deadline.
Note that I do not want you to claim until I am sure that you CANNOT POSSIBLY give us a date by which you can clear yourself. You give us a day, ima gouda.
I've been very busy recently, and will continue to be for the most of today. I should have much more to say in the next couple days. For now, I'll just say that I support an sgdre claim, based on logis stated by Puzzle.
Probably not. If we had a "straight-up" claim of "Cop" or "Watcher", with no additional wrinkles, then there might be some utility in a "counter-claim," under the theory that it would be unlikely to have 2 of the same roles.
But I am suspecting that will not happen. Maybe sgdre could answer the question of whether his role is "simple"--meaning fairly straightforward without any randomness--or "complicated"--meaning there are unusual elements, and the chances for a counter-claim are greatly reduced.
I'm somewhat concerned about the possibility of overlapping abilities also.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I'm sorry, maybe I'm just overestimating how difficult it would be to change people's minds before the deadline, especially in light of Axelrod's comment. By all means, if you have other leads present them.
That fear of inflexibility near deadline is one of the greatest killers of townies, ever.
Quote from ikerr »
I don't feel to comfortable giving sgdre another 3 days before we get back to him. That is too much time to come up with something with his mafia buddies, especially if one of them has a watcher or similar role. He could also hope that we just forget about it by then. If he said that he could clear himself by tomorrow, I might have given it a chance, but I think that day 4 is just too far away.
You're concentrating too much on worst-case scenarios and paranoid fears.
What I want to hear is why we should believe he's scum in the first place, and why we would want to force him to claim to begin with. If he's scum, we want him to claim, but the arguments trying to prove him as scum are thin at best, and contrived by mafia at worst.
The town has already goofed by pushing him this far, into a semi-claim which will attract mafia fire, for which I'm not very happy with Puzzle.
In fact, vote Puzzle, in absence of a more compelling target.
Trying to set a time-table for killing him, perhaps?
My reasoning here is this: I'm okay with allowing him to clear himself later on, it allows us to lynch someone else scummy today. However, I dislike giving him an indefinite pass, as that means if he's scum, you know, he'll stay alive till day 6 or whatever - not good. Thus, if he gives us a definite deadline to lynch him by, I'm okay.
The people generally considered scummy are Xyre, sgdre, and now Puzzle.
Sadly, I don't support any of these really; the ones I'd most like to be on are Xyre and maybe Puzzle.
However, I'm not sure the town wants to get into all the infighting that comes with someone suggesting a Puz lynch right now...
Part of the issue here is that sgdre has already partially claimed. He is already a target for the mafia(assuming he is town), and warrants potential doc protection. Exposing him further could reveal him to be mafia and comes with little risk. However, I will submit to the fact that we don't know for sure that he has an info role, and he has stated that claiming now will reduce his chances of being able to clear himself later. He seems to be competent enough that if he thinks his role is best not said, I'll lay off.
I'm trying to think of a way of "re-phrasing" my question to sgdre. Possibly something like: is your role such that, if you "fully" claimed it, you would not expect a townie to be able to "counter-claim" any part of it? Or, do you see the potential for "overlapping" claims. Careful, this is a trick question.
It's that latter situation I'm most worried about at the moment, given Puzzle's attitude. Along with the general bad ideaness of revealing a Cop/Watcher.
It is possible I will be joining Azreal in voting Puzzle in the near future. On the other hand, there's this, from my new favorite whipping boy:
Quote from CropCircles at 8:52 p.m. »
I've been very busy recently, and will continue to be for the most of today. I should have much more to say in the next couple days. For now, I'll just say that I support an sgdre claim, based on logis stated by Puzzle.
Quote from CropCircles at 12:22 p.m. »
Part of the issue here is that sgdre has already partially claimed. He is already a target for the mafia(assuming he is town), and warrants potential doc protection. Exposing him further could reveal him to be mafia and comes with little risk. However, I will submit to the fact that we don't know for sure that he has an info role, and he has stated that claiming now will reduce his chances of being able to clear himself later. He seems to be competent enough that if he thinks his role is best not said, I'll lay off.
It appears that you have at least partially reversed your position here within a matter of just a few hours. Going from "I support him claiming" to "if he thinks it's best not to, I'll lay off." What happened in-between to change your mind? Could it have been Azreal posting and coming out against it?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I would be highly suprised if my role could be genuinly counter-claimed (any part of it). I have never seen it before (and I have read a fair amount of mafia's, so I know at least all of the basic roles).
I think there is risk in claiming and would prefer not to.
I gave 4 days as a genrous estimate so that I would be able to hopefully avoid a situation in which I go "oops, no luck... dont lynch me."
Right now I would be comfortable with a lynch on either Xyre or Puzzle, but there is still plenty of time before the deadline. I am keeping an open mind.
Could someone present the reasons for a puzzle lynch for me? I'm not seeing the case against him. Right now I think that cropcircles(in light of his wishy-washyness) or xyre are our best lynches. Cropcircles still has plenty of time to explain himself though. I don’t want to be put in a situation where sgdre comes out and says he still hasn’t proven himself, it makes him look very scummy when he may be town. I still think I’m most comfortable with him coming forward with all the info.
At the risk of the being named to pot to Puzzle's kettle, I am going to agree with Azrael. Puzzle's case looks thin in many places. I see the points he is making but don't see them as incriminating as Puzzle is making them out to be. Yes, some of the points are somewhat suspicious but no single one screams mafia to me and they don't tie together in a very recognizable pattern.
This is suspiciously like what happened in Moa Mafia. I made a case that I was completely wrong about. It was based on several minor and not so minor errors by Carpo (a townie) being misinterpreted by me (also townie)and in retrospect magnified. The case resulted in a thread choking series of long, tiresome posts back and forth. At one point Carpo should have been lynched and escaped because of the unique rules of that game. Puzzle was in that game and this case he has presented looks virtually identical. This strikes me as too much of a coincidence on the part of Puzzle and it seems he is pushing the case harder then needed.
Unvote
I will vote: Puzzle to add some pressure.
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Nice to see that sgdre and chamber still consider me a fallback.
Quote from chamber »
Right now I think that cropcircles(in light of his wishy-washyness) or xyre are our best lynches.
Quote from sgdre »
Right now I would be comfortable with a lynch on either Xyre or Puzzle, but there is still plenty of time before the deadline. I am keeping an open mind.
What exactly qualifies me for a vote? I've repeatedly expressed how I'm innocent, and yet you still put me down as a vote, especially without information. Open mind-how can you be open-minded and yet closed-minded to the proof that I've given you as to why I'm innocent.
Nice to see that sgdre and chamber still consider me a fallback.
What exactly qualifies me for a vote? I've repeatedly expressed how I'm innocent, and yet you still put me down as a vote, especially without information. Open mind-how can you be open-minded and yet closed-minded to the proof that I've given you as to why I'm innocent.
What proof? Seriously I think the largest factor in your favour right now is the speed of your previous bandwagon.
Bandwagons do not a vote justify. Really, if you're going to explain away your position on a bandwagon that is long-dead, you're really grasping for threads.
Could someone refresh my memory (or could SGD tell us all) how many games of Mafia SGD has played?
Xyre does bring up a good point: these two people possibly (used lightly) are mafia. Or Chamber is and SGD is just inexperienced. They could also be townies trying to move pressure away from themselves.
Vote: Chamber, in fact, unless I'm oblivious to something obviously not scummy. (If I'm forgetting something please point it out, I have a skill (irl not the game) of forgetting things easily)) Speed of a bandwagon doesn't always = mafia. (i.e. the wagon against me in 8-bit (though I'm not a proven townie yet)
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Chamber has a point, there isn't much defendding you except your assertion of innocene, and your claim which hasn't exactly convinced many.
@Jobie: if I understand what they mean chamber is saying that since the bandwagon was fast it favors him being town, rather than mafia. I think this is SGD first internet game
I've looked over the last few pages, and I've seen nothing to clear Xyre. However, at this point, I think Chamber is looking a wee bit worse at the moment: however, I can't really decide a vote betweein the two of therem.
Therefore: Unvote, FoS: Xyre, FoS: Chamber.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
@Jobie: if I understand what they mean chamber is saying that since the bandwagon was fast it favors him being town, rather than mafia. I think this is SGD first internet game
That is what I ment, I don't even see how it could be interpreted otherwise.
Quote from Fayul »
I've looked over the last few pages, and I've seen nothing to clear Xyre. However, at this point, I think Chamber is looking a wee bit worse at the moment: however, I can't really decide a vote betweein the two of therem.
Therefore: Unvote, FoS: Xyre, FoS: Chamber.
Could you explain your case against me. I realize its note a vote, but you suggested you may vote me in the future. Jobie is already voting me, I don’t want this to develop into a bandwagon.
That fear of inflexibility near deadline is one of the greatest killers of townies, ever.
Quote from Azrael »
You're concentrating too much on worst-case scenarios and paranoid fears.
And this is probably just my general inexperience coming through. I see the town relaxing on those two a bit now and realize that I was in error.
I do like how you're making me question what I'm doing more than I would have otherwise. Keep it up and next game I might be good!8^)
Quote from Azrael »
What I want to hear is why we should believe he's scum in the first place
The reason I believe that he is scum is his reversal between posts 250 and 255, followed by later explanation that he never wanted to lynch Xyre. I see that as a blatant contradiction to post 250. I do agree that Puzzle's initial case was a little weak, this condradiction made me join the wagon.
I am starting to have doubts, however, mostly because of Azrael, Axelrod, and now Hawkeye (three of our better players) being on his side.
I am starting to become wary of Puzzle. All his posts in response to an allegation against him recently have seemed like he is resigned himself to appear scummy and just wants to avoid confrontation. Although, after 8-bit I can't say that I really blame him for that.
CropCircles posting, while it has improved, has not really improved that much from the beginning of the game. Now he seems to be trying to keep a lower profile, rather than just randomly bandwaggoning like before. I can't say that either style looks to favourable to him.
I'm not really feeling the Xyre wagon. He hasn't done much to clear himself, but he didn't really do that much to incriminate himself either. Basically, all he did that was scummy was suggest a no lynch and claim early, which I can't see as being overly helpful to the mafia and the other members would have known the heat that would come down against him and advise him against it, assuming they talked about it last night. It could still be a rogue n00bie-mafia gambit, but that doesn't seem like the most likely case.
As for Chamber, I would also like to see the case against him. I haven't noticed anything lately, but two others find him suspicious.
And finally, I would like to see the case on Puzzle laid out as well, so I can better formulate my judgements on this matter.
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Sgdre- 4 (Puzzle, Ikerr, Enigma, Xyre)
Jobie- 1 (Hawkeye)
Xyre- 3 (Fayul, Swinkee, Chamber)
Azrael- 1 (CropCircles)
Not Voting: Azrael, Rhinocero, Sgdre, Sorryguy, Leilani, Silicon, Creampuffeater, Axelrod, WoLG, Jobie, MoT
20 Alive, 11 to lynch
Yes, the deadline is retractable, but I would rather not have to and get the day over with. It would take some good convincing to get it moved, and at most you would get a week more.
Notes about deadline:
Most votes @ deadline is lynched.
If 2 people are tied at deadline, both are lynched.
There is no minimum # of votes needed.
If No Lynch is tied with a player, the player is lynched.
@ puzzle: Ok, here are the people that seems scummy to me...
1) Puzzle. Im going to start out by saying that this is not an OMGUS vote. Your vote on ikker was confusing at best, and like axel I am still awaiting a complete explanation of this vote. The main issue it that I cannot understand your continued attack on me. While I admit (and have admitted) that some of your points were valid, you exagerated many things. For example, you completely made up the fact that I said that Xyre being a newb would make him more likely to be town. I feel that I have answered every question that you have posed to me, and yet you will not move on. For a while I was considering the possibility of you being a non-sane cop, but it seems less likely as time goes by. Your extremely long posts in your attack on me do little except to make it harder to follow the thread.
2) Xyre. Duh. Also, his recent actions have done little to convince me that he is pro-town.
3) CropCirlces. His actions (particularly in the early game) have not really been helpful for the town. Also, I agree with Axel that he pushed the Xyre wagon while not on it himself (push may be a little strong).
4) Ikker. I just dont get what is going on with this guy. His posts make me go "huh?". PPE: Actually, never mind. I just reread all of his posts (a whopping 8) and they werent that bad.
5) swinkee. Not a particularly strong feeling of scummyness, but cmon, get posting.
As for my scumminess. I have a question. If I was trying to distance myself from the wagon in post 255, why would I even make post 250? Are people saying that I only realized that the wagon was losing steam in post 252 and that is why i changed my mind? This is not the case. Azrael had already started to attack the wagon before post 250. It was already losing steam before I unvoted.
Also, a piece of information that I would not have revealed were it not for the deadline (and apologies if this is an inopportune moment, but I want us to get the best chance at finding scum): My role should enable me to confirm myself as nonscum before the endgame.
It wasn't only the Steve defense, it was also the speed of the wagon. I however am with you that i still think he’s scummy. I also still thing sgdre is scummy. I'm not sure whom I dislike more at this point. Xyre is a complete newb and makes posts I find annoying (not as bad as mot however) more importantly he claimed under very little pressure and suggested a no lynch. sgdres case has been reviewed many times and I don’t feel like repeating it. I think I’d be happier with xyre out of the 2, and if no new information surfaces by the deadline I think he’s our best lynch.
Does anyone have any idea how to go about gathering more information? Axel’s review of the thread is helpful, but its not adding much new content something we need.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
I do agree that today is between Xyre and sgdre. Something really astounding would have to happen for one of them not to go. Between those two, I still have to stick with sgdre. Him hopping off the wagon in post #255 is too convenient should Xyre be a townie. Either he gets lynched anyway and sgdre looks good for getting off the wagon, or the town follows him and he looks good for being the first to jump.
And sgdre, the reason for post #250 was to help ensure that Xyre gets lynched. Azrael hadn't really posted an arguement defending Xyre yet, just one advising caution and trying to detract a speed-lynch. I actually felt your post did a good job of countering that and keeping people fired up about the wagon. It wasn't until after Az posted a real defence that you immediately had the change of heart.
All that said, if the town wants, I am willing to change my vote to Xyre in order to see if this eventual claim of sgdre's pans out. I would be happier with the sgdre lynch, but I can understand people wanting to get rid of the person with a role that cannot be corroborated over the person who claims to be able to clear himself.
Also, FoS:Puzzle for withholding information about me. Also, it initial case on sgdre was a little overstated, but sgdre's responses have got me leaning in Puzzle's favour.
You ignored my questions in 415:
Thank you for answering them in your next post. You are still most scummy to me if it comes to a deadline. I would hope to go after someone esle however. sgdre does look a little scummy but all I have done is FOS him, I just do not see the solid case that Puzzle is so loudly preaching.
@Axel: Do you actully want me to answer those questions?
I don't think he's even close. For example, he was last online today, at 7:32 p.m. And then this:
Bandwagon vote not helping his cause any.
I don't know if I can accurately summarize Puzzle's attack on sgdre. Seems to be:
(1) sgdre says Chamber is clearer because of his deduction that all/most townies have scummy names. He says only a townie with a scummy name could have drawn that conclusion. Puzzle says not true.
(2) sgdre voted Xyre after Xyre had completely claimed, saying it was to "pressure" him. sgdre admits it was a poor choice of words, says he just meant to keep up the pressure because Xyre was the most suspicious in his eyes.
(3) sgdre unvotes Xyre 1 post after stating that he doesn't think Xyre should live through the day unless something odd happens. sgdre claims he was right on the verge of unvoting even as he made that post, and wasn't just following along with Azreal, who had defended Xyre in-between the posts. Puzzle says, um, bull****.
(4) I think Puzzle also thinks sgdre is trying to get on the good side of several townies.
Some would call that a false dilemma. I don't think that's a correct use of the term, as he's making it more a personal belief than asserting it as fact. But, in general, I don't agree with this point.
Clarifies he doesn't "know" anything about Azreal, which Puzzle thought earlier.
Ikerr reappears to join the sgdre wagon. Follows Puzzle's points fairly closely. Most suspicious of sgdre's insistance that he wasn't trying to get Xyre lynched with his post #250.
Jobie also joins the bandwaggon in post #323. But then immediately unvotes after one most post from sgdre.
Here Xyre shows little understanding of what is actually going on in the thread.
I am uneasy with the aggressive way Puzzle continues to pursue sgdre.
Here he's defending sgdre against Puzzle's allegations. I'm not sure whether Azreal is agreeing that Chamber would have to be a mind reader to make his deduction that all/most townies have scummy names from Azreal's initial comment, or whether Azreal is just saying that's what sgdre was arguing. I would disagree with the first point if that's what he meant. The second point is not really debatable. Sgdre says he meant one thing. Puzzle says it sounded like something else to him.
I AM NOT THE FOURTH FAN. I NEVER, EVER FRIGGING SEMI-CLAIM or HIDE CLAIM.
What have I said again ?...
Actually, yes, where is my semi-claim ?
No you don't "hide" claims, but you are perfectly willing to make vague/suggestive/cryptic remarks and comments, that clearly indicate some kind of knowledge (re: Ikerr vote), but then decline to explain them. That's so much better....
SorryGuy waffles. FOSing both top vote-getters. Says Xyre is more scummy than sgdre.
Chamber agrees that sgdre's "contradiction" is a strong point against him. Waits to see what he has to say specifically about that.
Sgdre explains the "contradiction."
EWP: stepping outside this review to comment for a moment on what is going on in the thread right now, may I just say, sgdre, that claiming you can "confirm" yourself by the end of the game, and therefore that you should not be lynched, is flat out ridiculous. We are supposed to just take your word for it? And give you a free pass for how long? Because you say so? Surely you can see that's wrong.
I don't mean to accuse you by this post either, because I'm feeling there are several better targets than you right now. But that's just wrong.
Thats a very long time. Give us a definate time.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Oh...Semi-Claims on Day 1. At this point I can see why you did it, there was a bit of pressure there, much more so than Xyre. Without giving away too much this makes me less suspsious of you. So I guess what I am saying is I support his claim to some extent.
That could be said to be trying to get information. However in this situation I would agree. Can you be any more specific on time? I know mine is definate.
You don't think it'd be possible to move on to a lynch of someone else, like say...you? Hypothetically speaking, of course.
Not much to add to the game, just that I thought the same thing about the information gatherer, but I wasn’t sure I should reveal it or not, because I almost got my head chopped off last time I revealed something I saw.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
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Incase it wasn't clear, I support the idea that sgdre should full cliam.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
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Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I think it would be possible, just fairly difficult with the amount of people on either sgdre's or Xyre's cases. I do feel that something major would have to happen for people to look away from our scummiest 2 players.
I will also support the sgdre full claim.
Based upon what arguments?
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I think you should move on because I claimed the ability to clear myself. I am a clear lynch in a later day if I cant.
This analysis was obviously invalidated by Armlx saying that he rolled for Ikkers role. I havent suggested it since. Cmon.
We agree? YAY! O wait, its on lurker posting :-(
I never claimed that I am an information gatherer. Just that I am able to clear myself. As the rest of your analysis is based on that, Im going to leave it at that.
If people really want me to claim (read the people who arent already on my wagon, I know you guys do) then I will, but claiming makes me less able to clear myself. Wouldnt it be better for me to be able to clear myself when it is advantageous to the town instead of claiming on day 1? I do not think that forcing a claim out of me right now is the best move.
If people really want me to claim (read the people who arent already on my wagon, I know you guys do) then I will, but claiming makes me less able to clear myself. Wouldnt it be better for me to be able to clear myself when it is advantageous to the town instead of claiming on day 1? I do not think that forcing a claim out of me right now is the best move.[/QUOTE]
We assume you’re an information gatherer because it’s the only conventional role that could clear its self eventually but not by a set date.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
VOTE Sgdre until he gives us a better deadline.
Note that I do not want you to claim until I am sure that you CANNOT POSSIBLY give us a date by which you can clear yourself. You give us a day, ima gouda.
You are making quite a large assumption here. You can't be certain what his role is or what it does. But let me ask you this: assume sgdre "claims" and does claim the Cop/watcher role you are assuming he has. Would you be satisfied? Would that be enough to cause you to unvote him?
If it would, since you are assuming it already, why do you even need to hear him say it? You should now be treating him as if he has already claimed it.
So, you still want to lynch a potential Cop/watcher? If he's lying, the "real" Cop/Watcher will no doubt be on his case, but we don't especially want those roles revealed on Day 1, do we?
For those who don't believe there's "time" to look at anyone else, may I refer you to LoTR mafia, where the town made a complete turnaround less than 24 hrs from deadline and lynched correctly just by using good analysis.
@sgdre: You are almost claiming already. If we have a doc then I think you can claim. Do whatever you think is best for the town. If you are about to be lynched and it would help the town to claim, well then obviously, you want to claim.
In general I am just hanging out, a little bored with this game right now.
Rhino, I already said that I should be able to do it by day 4. I cannot give you an absolutely definate deadline, but I would understand a lynch if I couldnt do it by day 4.
UNVOTE
Trying to set a time-table for killing him, perhaps?
I'm sorry, maybe I'm just overestimating how difficult it would be to change people's minds before the deadline, especially in light of Axelrod's comment. By all means, if you have other leads present them.
I don't feel to comfortable giving sgdre another 3 days before we get back to him. That is too much time to come up with something with his mafia buddies, especially if one of them has a watcher or similar role. He could also hope that we just forget about it by then. If he said that he could clear himself by tomorrow, I might have given it a chance, but I think that day 4 is just too far away.
I've been very busy recently, and will continue to be for the most of today. I should have much more to say in the next couple days. For now, I'll just say that I support an sgdre claim, based on logis stated by Puzzle.
[The Family]
But I am suspecting that will not happen. Maybe sgdre could answer the question of whether his role is "simple"--meaning fairly straightforward without any randomness--or "complicated"--meaning there are unusual elements, and the chances for a counter-claim are greatly reduced.
I'm somewhat concerned about the possibility of overlapping abilities also.
That fear of inflexibility near deadline is one of the greatest killers of townies, ever.
You're concentrating too much on worst-case scenarios and paranoid fears.
What I want to hear is why we should believe he's scum in the first place, and why we would want to force him to claim to begin with. If he's scum, we want him to claim, but the arguments trying to prove him as scum are thin at best, and contrived by mafia at worst.
The town has already goofed by pushing him this far, into a semi-claim which will attract mafia fire, for which I'm not very happy with Puzzle.
In fact, vote Puzzle, in absence of a more compelling target.
My reasoning here is this: I'm okay with allowing him to clear himself later on, it allows us to lynch someone else scummy today. However, I dislike giving him an indefinite pass, as that means if he's scum, you know, he'll stay alive till day 6 or whatever - not good. Thus, if he gives us a definite deadline to lynch him by, I'm okay.
The people generally considered scummy are Xyre, sgdre, and now Puzzle.
Sadly, I don't support any of these really; the ones I'd most like to be on are Xyre and maybe Puzzle.
However, I'm not sure the town wants to get into all the infighting that comes with someone suggesting a Puz lynch right now...
[The Family]
It's that latter situation I'm most worried about at the moment, given Puzzle's attitude. Along with the general bad ideaness of revealing a Cop/Watcher.
It is possible I will be joining Azreal in voting Puzzle in the near future. On the other hand, there's this, from my new favorite whipping boy:
It appears that you have at least partially reversed your position here within a matter of just a few hours. Going from "I support him claiming" to "if he thinks it's best not to, I'll lay off." What happened in-between to change your mind? Could it have been Azreal posting and coming out against it?
I would be highly suprised if my role could be genuinly counter-claimed (any part of it). I have never seen it before (and I have read a fair amount of mafia's, so I know at least all of the basic roles).
I think there is risk in claiming and would prefer not to.
I gave 4 days as a genrous estimate so that I would be able to hopefully avoid a situation in which I go "oops, no luck... dont lynch me."
Right now I would be comfortable with a lynch on either Xyre or Puzzle, but there is still plenty of time before the deadline. I am keeping an open mind.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
This is suspiciously like what happened in Moa Mafia. I made a case that I was completely wrong about. It was based on several minor and not so minor errors by Carpo (a townie) being misinterpreted by me (also townie)and in retrospect magnified. The case resulted in a thread choking series of long, tiresome posts back and forth. At one point Carpo should have been lynched and escaped because of the unique rules of that game. Puzzle was in that game and this case he has presented looks virtually identical. This strikes me as too much of a coincidence on the part of Puzzle and it seems he is pushing the case harder then needed.
Unvote
I will vote: Puzzle to add some pressure.
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Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
What exactly qualifies me for a vote? I've repeatedly expressed how I'm innocent, and yet you still put me down as a vote, especially without information. Open mind-how can you be open-minded and yet closed-minded to the proof that I've given you as to why I'm innocent.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
What proof? Seriously I think the largest factor in your favour right now is the speed of your previous bandwagon.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Xyre does bring up a good point: these two people possibly (used lightly) are mafia. Or Chamber is and SGD is just inexperienced. They could also be townies trying to move pressure away from themselves.
Vote: Chamber, in fact, unless I'm oblivious to something obviously not scummy. (If I'm forgetting something please point it out, I have a skill (irl not the game) of forgetting things easily)) Speed of a bandwagon doesn't always = mafia. (i.e. the wagon against me in 8-bit (though I'm not a proven townie yet)
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
@Jobie: if I understand what they mean chamber is saying that since the bandwagon was fast it favors him being town, rather than mafia. I think this is SGD first internet game
Therefore: Unvote, FoS: Xyre, FoS: Chamber.
That is what I ment, I don't even see how it could be interpreted otherwise.
Could you explain your case against me. I realize its note a vote, but you suggested you may vote me in the future. Jobie is already voting me, I don’t want this to develop into a bandwagon.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
And this is probably just my general inexperience coming through. I see the town relaxing on those two a bit now and realize that I was in error.
I do like how you're making me question what I'm doing more than I would have otherwise. Keep it up and next game I might be good!8^)
The reason I believe that he is scum is his reversal between posts 250 and 255, followed by later explanation that he never wanted to lynch Xyre. I see that as a blatant contradiction to post 250. I do agree that Puzzle's initial case was a little weak, this condradiction made me join the wagon.
I am starting to have doubts, however, mostly because of Azrael, Axelrod, and now Hawkeye (three of our better players) being on his side.
I am starting to become wary of Puzzle. All his posts in response to an allegation against him recently have seemed like he is resigned himself to appear scummy and just wants to avoid confrontation. Although, after 8-bit I can't say that I really blame him for that.
CropCircles posting, while it has improved, has not really improved that much from the beginning of the game. Now he seems to be trying to keep a lower profile, rather than just randomly bandwaggoning like before. I can't say that either style looks to favourable to him.
I'm not really feeling the Xyre wagon. He hasn't done much to clear himself, but he didn't really do that much to incriminate himself either. Basically, all he did that was scummy was suggest a no lynch and claim early, which I can't see as being overly helpful to the mafia and the other members would have known the heat that would come down against him and advise him against it, assuming they talked about it last night. It could still be a rogue n00bie-mafia gambit, but that doesn't seem like the most likely case.
As for Chamber, I would also like to see the case against him. I haven't noticed anything lately, but two others find him suspicious.
And finally, I would like to see the case on Puzzle laid out as well, so I can better formulate my judgements on this matter.