This thread is for discussing the Vampires Archetype. A sample deck list is below. Those looking for budget help should do so here. Budget discussion is NOT permitted in this thread under any circumstances.
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
I have found that lacerators help to compliment my nocturnis/monument much more than my previous mono black build in testing (ran pretty much the same as iRebel's example list)
I have found that lacerators help to compliment my nocturnis/monument much more than my previous mono black build in testing (ran pretty much the same as iRebel's example list)
Lets here the criticism/your lists.
Lacerators are your call. What really catches my eye is the use of Deathmark in the main. Is your meta filled with so much green and white? And if it is, why not four main or another two on the side?
Lacerators are your call. What really catches my eye is the use of Deathmark in the main. Is your meta filled with so much green and white? And if it is, why not four main or another two on the side?
Deathmark pretty much wrecks jund and does something against bushwhacker. I am running 2 main right now because i am in the process of testing. I think one of vampire's players biggest debate should be right about now is Deathmark vs. Disfigure vs. Smother (future). So far, deathmark has been doing wonderfully.
The Nightmare is my own meta call, a lot of RDW, Jund, and Control... all of which don't like to see something big swinging in post Mind Sludge. Been the hero more times than I can say now.
I have found that lacerators help to compliment my nocturnis/monument much more than my previous mono black build in testing (ran pretty much the same as iRebel's example list)
Lets here the criticism/your lists.
Why play Terramorphic Expanse when you have access to Verdant catacomb. Don't say that it's because you dont own Verdant catacomb, it's a competitive thread there's no place here for budget cards.
-2 Terramorphic Expanse
-2 Swamps
+4 Verdant catacombs
You want your nocturnous "on" all the time. The more fetch you play, the better.
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As a response to the definition of a word he clearly didn't understand
ROFL, you are trying to educate me? just because English is not my first language doesn't mean i am uneducated you prick, when you go study to become a genetic researcher or a brain surgeon amd succeed in it you can come and diss me with how smart you are okay? this is freaking card game forum, not cambridge university.
MTGS....Full of fail all day, everyday. Welcome to Hell!
Why play Terramorphic Expanse when you have access to Verdant catacomb. Don't say that it's because you dont own Verdant catacomb, it's a competitive thread there's no place here for budget cards.
-2 Terramorphic Expanse
-2 Swamps
+4 Verdant catacombs
You want your nocturnous "on" all the time. The more fetch you play, the better.
If you paid attention to my old list at all in the archives, it has nothing to do with cash (the red splash is actually more expensive). There is a lot fast aggro, bushwhacker, and rdw, so running 4 more -1 life lands is a little too destructive.
Terri does the same job, and i have had no problem with a swamp coming into play tapped, or keeping nocturnis "on" with 6 fetches + sign in blood...
Heh, I bet you get some strange looks the first time the Nightmare drops -- maybe even a nervous chuckle
I do indeed, much like the Spanish Inquisition, no one expects Nightmare!
No, seriously, a 6/6 flyer is immediately the biggest thing on the field, if the opponent doesn't have something ready to deal with it (and as I said, post an optimal curve of Mind Sludge into Nightmare they are top decking and hopefully havn't drawn an answer) it's usually good game. A fun 'surprise', and one which i'm amused has worked so well so far.
If you paid attention to my old list at all in the archives, it has nothing to do with cash (the red splash is actually more expensive). There is a lot fast aggro, bushwhacker, and rdw, so running 4 more -1 life lands is a little too destructive.
Terri does the same job, and i have had no problem with a swamp coming into play tapped, or keeping nocturnis "on" with 6 fetches + sign in blood...
Well then good for you. But i rather take 1 to have my fourth land untap to play my Nocturnous. Also with 4 tendrils of coruption, the life lose is not really a problem. Even if it never happenned to you, it's still possible to get slowed down by terramorphic Expanse and that's something we dont want. But again if it works for you then play it, but I still think it's sub-optimal card to play in Vamps.
ROFL, you are trying to educate me? just because English is not my first language doesn't mean i am uneducated you prick, when you go study to become a genetic researcher or a brain surgeon amd succeed in it you can come and diss me with how smart you are okay? this is freaking card game forum, not cambridge university.
MTGS....Full of fail all day, everyday. Welcome to Hell!
Well then good for you. But i rather take 1 to have my fourth land untap to play my Nocturnous. Also with 4 tendrils of coruption, the life lose is not really a problem. Even if it never happenned to you, it's still possible to get slowed down by terramorphic Expanse and that's something we dont want. But again if it works for you then play it, but I still think it's sub-optimal card to play in Vamps.
I usally terri turn 1 or 3. I originally tested with 8 fetches (no terris) and i felt like i was doing half of the aggro deck's job. Your right, tendrils can offset it, but the problem is drawing it...
I had asked this question in the previous thread that was archived: are people thinking the Eldrazi Monument is worth it? I see it in all of the deck lists now, whereas I hadn't before. I played online quite a bit today and only got to play it twice, and it didn't really help me at all.. quite the opposite - they path'ed my ghast which set me up for a slow, painful death.
Considering how major a sludge-that-hits can be, I would probably swap it out for a third sludge -- but have I just not given it enough time to prove itself?
If you paid attention to my old list at all in the archives, it has nothing to do with cash (the red splash is actually more expensive). There is a lot fast aggro, bushwhacker, and rdw, so running 4 more -1 life lands is a little too destructive.
Terri does the same job, and i have had no problem with a swamp coming into play tapped, or keeping nocturnis "on" with 6 fetches + sign in blood...
maybe it will take 25 matches or so, but inevitably the CITP tapped bit will cause you to lose, and I am guessing when it happens you will switch to a proper fetch land. I also don't see why you wouldn't use 8 fetch lands, since they are out there. It is critical with Nocturnus.
I had asked this question in the previous thread that was archived: are people thinking the Eldrazi Monument is worth it? I see it in all of the deck lists now, whereas I hadn't before. I played online quite a bit today and only got to play it twice, and it didn't really help me at all.. quite the opposite - they path'ed my ghast which set me up for a slow, painful death.
Considering how major a sludge-that-hits can be, I would probably swap it out for a third sludge -- but have I just not given it enough time to prove itself?
I until recently did not use monument. It plays as nocturnis #5, and when i get it, its a house. That being said, i side it out against anything that runs white (path + purge = bad times). Mind Sludge at 2, seems like te right call. You only ever need 1 to resolve, and i would never want to see more than two in my hand at any given time.
maybe it will take 25 matches or so, but inevitably the CITP tapped bit will cause you to lose, and I am guessing when it happens you will switch to a proper fetch land. I also don't see why you wouldn't use 8 fetch lands, since they are out there. It is critical with Nocturnus.
Even if i do switch the terris back out, i would only run 2 verdents. 6 pain fetches seems like the right number...
Basically, its your call with monument, ive seen 1st place vampires that ran it, and some that didn't. Depends on the meta...
If you paid attention to my old list at all in the archives, it has nothing to do with cash (the red splash is actually more expensive). There is a lot fast aggro, bushwhacker, and rdw, so running 4 more -1 life lands is a little too destructive.
Terri does the same job, and i have had no problem with a swamp coming into play tapped, or keeping nocturnis "on" with 6 fetches + sign in blood...
There's ah... something wrong in this particular thought. Your worried about -1 hits... and running a full playset of Vampire Lacerator? Are you only running them post the 10 life mark? I'm assuming not.
Comparatively, your taking a oneshot hit from the fetchlands for potentially a lot of advantage. I realize you're running the Lacerators for added synergy with the Nocturnus and all, but if you're really worried about taking hits to your own life then you probably should be considering alternatives.
Deathmark pretty much wrecks jund and does something against bushwhacker. I am running 2 main right now because i am in the process of testing. I think one of vampire's players biggest debate should be right about now is Deathmark vs. Disfigure vs. Smother (future). So far, deathmark has been doing wonderfully.
I see. When further testing is done, I'd very much like to see the results. I like the idea and I may try MDing Deathmark and test it out, but I just feel that Disfigure in the main may be a lot more versatile. Although it's great tech seeing as everyone is running multicolored creatures with green or white.
There's ah... something wrong in this particular thought. Your worried about -1 hits... and running a full playset of Vampire Lacerator? Are you only running them post the 10 life mark? I'm assuming not.
Comparatively, your taking a oneshot hit from the fetchlands for potentially a lot of advantage. I realize you're running the Lacerators for added synergy with the Nocturnus and all, but if you're really worried about taking hits to your own life then you probably should be considering alternatives.
I just recently started testing lacerator again, and while that is a good point, i still have work i need to go. I am thinking i probably will be putting 2 verdent catcombs back (or going 3 and 3).
I see. When further testing is done, I'd very much like to see the results. I like the idea and I may try MDing Deathmark and test it out, but I just feel that Disfigure in the main may be a lot more versatile. Although it's great tech seeing as everyone is running multicolored creatures with green or white.
Possibly, but i found myself siding deathmark in more often then not, which is why i was trying them main, and the only matchup i really side them out against (Jacerator, The mirror, cruel control/angelfire) and two of those match ups, i side out disfigure anyway...
Ob Nixilis, the Fallen x2 is so much tech i just found out today at my local shop vamps got 1st and 2nd. ob + fetchs is game breaking just like mind sludge
Ob Nixilis is too easy to get around. If you cast it on turn 5 you can be sure it wont survive to your next turn where it would be effective. If you play it turn 6, you should already be winning with an alpha strike. Yes if you have nothing on the board turn 6 and you have this and a fetch in hand it will probably be a game winner, that is if your opponent is at 6 or he doesn't have anything to kill it and nothing to block it next turn. That is a big IF in my opinion. Malakir bloodwitch is way better 5 drop and will give you more games then Ob Nixilis. I dont see how it can be in any way a tech. Mind sludge is game breaking because it gets rid of all the creature removal in their hand that kills the deck, Ob Nixilis is just a creature with no evasion. Yes it's abillity is good, but like i said with all the removal in the format it's pretty easy to get around it.
ROFL, you are trying to educate me? just because English is not my first language doesn't mean i am uneducated you prick, when you go study to become a genetic researcher or a brain surgeon amd succeed in it you can come and diss me with how smart you are okay? this is freaking card game forum, not cambridge university.
MTGS....Full of fail all day, everyday. Welcome to Hell!
I've been thinking of building a vamp deck and I have a couple questions.
Why no doom blade? Just no room for it? Or is there another reason?
How often is mind sludge relevant? It seems that by turn 5, your opponent has a good chance of having a very small/empty hand, and it seems to me that more spot removal has a greater chance of being useful, with sludge being in the board against control decks.
I've been thinking of building a vamp deck and I have a couple questions.
Why no doom blade? Just no room for it? Or is there another reason?
How often is mind sludge relevant? It seems that by turn 5, your opponent has a good chance of having a very small/empty hand, and it seems to me that more spot removal has a greater chance of being useful, with sludge being in the board against control decks.
Doom Blade is poor main deck material, but several lists do use it in the sideboard. It's solid removal against Mono-white, Eldrazi Green and most of the current turbo-fog/control decks these days, since it kills their finishers. (Jar Jar Spinx, Walletslayer Angel etc.)
Mind Sludge is great, only worth a 2-of slot against most decks, but you underestimate how many decks are mid-range in the current environment, and control appears to at least be making a tiny bit of a showing now, wherein Sludge is an absolute bomb. Sometimes more removal is good, but the fact is most are already running Disfigure and Tendrils of Corruption main deck, and past that the other black removal spells are considered situational. (Doom Blade and Deathmark unless i'm missing something.)
I would have to guess my average amount nabbed from Mindsludge is 4 cards, but it's *what* you get that matters. Generally it's going to be creature removal or control cards, both of which are the bane of the vamps.
I am really loving twilight.dec. Apart from jund, it really has solid matchups vs alot of the field. For me, maindecking deathmark works very very well.
The problem is though, is there any anti-jund tech at all? I can't imagine vampires having a good matchup vs jund and playtesting proves that. Vamps is so, so nasty vs control, but vs jund it just gets pretty buttraped. Deathmark main helps, but not enough to say that vamps is even 50/50 with jund.
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4 Marsh Flats
16 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures: 22
3 Bloodghast
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Vampire Nocturnus
3 Disfigure
1 Eldrazi Monument
2 Mind Sludge
4 Sign in Blood
4 Tendrils of Corruption
4 Deathmark
4 Duress
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Malakir Bloodwitch
3 Marsh Casualties
2 Mind Sludge
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
My new version dropped the red (just for tendrils sake =/) and runs like this:
4x Marsh Flats
2x Terrimorphic Expanse
17x Swamp
Creatures (24)
4x Vampire Lacerator
3x Vampire Hexmage
3x Bloodghast
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Vampire Nocturnis
2x Malakir Bloodwitch
4x Sign in Blood
2x Deathmark
4x Tendrils of Corruption
2x Mind Sludge
1x Eldazari Monument
2x Malakir Bloodwitch
1x Vampire Hexmage
1x Bloodghast
4x Duress
2x Pithing Needle
2x Relic of Progenitus
3x Disfigure
I have found that lacerators help to compliment my nocturnis/monument much more than my previous mono black build in testing (ran pretty much the same as iRebel's example list)
Lets here the criticism/your lists.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Lacerators are your call. What really catches my eye is the use of Deathmark in the main. Is your meta filled with so much green and white? And if it is, why not four main or another two on the side?
Deathmark pretty much wrecks jund and does something against bushwhacker. I am running 2 main right now because i am in the process of testing. I think one of vampire's players biggest debate should be right about now is Deathmark vs. Disfigure vs. Smother (future). So far, deathmark has been doing wonderfully.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
17 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures:
3 Vampire Hexmage
4 Bloodghast
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Vampre Nocturnus
2 Malakir Bloodwitch
2 Nightmare
4 Disfigure
4 Sign in Blood
4 Tendrils of Corruption
2 Mind Sludge
4 Deathmark
3 Doom Blade
3 Marsh Flats
2 Mind Sludge
2 Malakir Bloodwitch
1 Vampire Hexmage
The Nightmare is my own meta call, a lot of RDW, Jund, and Control... all of which don't like to see something big swinging in post Mind Sludge. Been the hero more times than I can say now.
Why play Terramorphic Expanse when you have access to Verdant catacomb. Don't say that it's because you dont own Verdant catacomb, it's a competitive thread there's no place here for budget cards.
-2 Terramorphic Expanse
-2 Swamps
+4 Verdant catacombs
You want your nocturnous "on" all the time. The more fetch you play, the better.
MTGS....Full of fail all day, everyday. Welcome to Hell!
If you paid attention to my old list at all in the archives, it has nothing to do with cash (the red splash is actually more expensive). There is a lot fast aggro, bushwhacker, and rdw, so running 4 more -1 life lands is a little too destructive.
Terri does the same job, and i have had no problem with a swamp coming into play tapped, or keeping nocturnis "on" with 6 fetches + sign in blood...
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I do indeed, much like the Spanish Inquisition, no one expects Nightmare!
No, seriously, a 6/6 flyer is immediately the biggest thing on the field, if the opponent doesn't have something ready to deal with it (and as I said, post an optimal curve of Mind Sludge into Nightmare they are top decking and hopefully havn't drawn an answer) it's usually good game. A fun 'surprise', and one which i'm amused has worked so well so far.
Well then good for you. But i rather take 1 to have my fourth land untap to play my Nocturnous. Also with 4 tendrils of coruption, the life lose is not really a problem. Even if it never happenned to you, it's still possible to get slowed down by terramorphic Expanse and that's something we dont want. But again if it works for you then play it, but I still think it's sub-optimal card to play in Vamps.
MTGS....Full of fail all day, everyday. Welcome to Hell!
I usally terri turn 1 or 3. I originally tested with 8 fetches (no terris) and i felt like i was doing half of the aggro deck's job. Your right, tendrils can offset it, but the problem is drawing it...
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Considering how major a sludge-that-hits can be, I would probably swap it out for a third sludge -- but have I just not given it enough time to prove itself?
maybe it will take 25 matches or so, but inevitably the CITP tapped bit will cause you to lose, and I am guessing when it happens you will switch to a proper fetch land. I also don't see why you wouldn't use 8 fetch lands, since they are out there. It is critical with Nocturnus.
I until recently did not use monument. It plays as nocturnis #5, and when i get it, its a house. That being said, i side it out against anything that runs white (path + purge = bad times). Mind Sludge at 2, seems like te right call. You only ever need 1 to resolve, and i would never want to see more than two in my hand at any given time.
Even if i do switch the terris back out, i would only run 2 verdents. 6 pain fetches seems like the right number...
Basically, its your call with monument, ive seen 1st place vampires that ran it, and some that didn't. Depends on the meta...
The GJ way path to no lynching:
There's ah... something wrong in this particular thought. Your worried about -1 hits... and running a full playset of Vampire Lacerator? Are you only running them post the 10 life mark? I'm assuming not.
Comparatively, your taking a oneshot hit from the fetchlands for potentially a lot of advantage. I realize you're running the Lacerators for added synergy with the Nocturnus and all, but if you're really worried about taking hits to your own life then you probably should be considering alternatives.
I see. When further testing is done, I'd very much like to see the results. I like the idea and I may try MDing Deathmark and test it out, but I just feel that Disfigure in the main may be a lot more versatile. Although it's great tech seeing as everyone is running multicolored creatures with green or white.
I just recently started testing lacerator again, and while that is a good point, i still have work i need to go. I am thinking i probably will be putting 2 verdent catcombs back (or going 3 and 3).
Possibly, but i found myself siding deathmark in more often then not, which is why i was trying them main, and the only matchup i really side them out against (Jacerator, The mirror, cruel control/angelfire) and two of those match ups, i side out disfigure anyway...
The GJ way path to no lynching:
MTGS....Full of fail all day, everyday. Welcome to Hell!
Why no doom blade? Just no room for it? Or is there another reason?
How often is mind sludge relevant? It seems that by turn 5, your opponent has a good chance of having a very small/empty hand, and it seems to me that more spot removal has a greater chance of being useful, with sludge being in the board against control decks.
Doom Blade is poor main deck material, but several lists do use it in the sideboard. It's solid removal against Mono-white, Eldrazi Green and most of the current turbo-fog/control decks these days, since it kills their finishers. (Jar Jar Spinx, Walletslayer Angel etc.)
Mind Sludge is great, only worth a 2-of slot against most decks, but you underestimate how many decks are mid-range in the current environment, and control appears to at least be making a tiny bit of a showing now, wherein Sludge is an absolute bomb. Sometimes more removal is good, but the fact is most are already running Disfigure and Tendrils of Corruption main deck, and past that the other black removal spells are considered situational. (Doom Blade and Deathmark unless i'm missing something.)
The problem is though, is there any anti-jund tech at all? I can't imagine vampires having a good matchup vs jund and playtesting proves that. Vamps is so, so nasty vs control, but vs jund it just gets pretty buttraped. Deathmark main helps, but not enough to say that vamps is even 50/50 with jund.