When I play magic, I am not hellbent on making it a fun experience for my opponent. In a tournament I am trying to win. Inasmuch I am going to do my best to playtest decks. I will take things which are suited to the metagame. I will run lists as close to optimal as I can to try to win.
I am a control player at heart, and I love blue. However, when the meta is inhospitable for control, I will not try to force it. I'll play whatever I think has the best chance in the metagame. If I do not have all the cards in my possession, I will borrow them or buy them.
When someone suggests a bad card, or claims a bad deck is some savage tech, states that it is a good idea to run 63 cards, or something else equally inane, I will argue with them. I will tell them they are wrong. I will go so far as to openly call them an idiot.
While I may be more generally unkind about it, there are a large number of players here who are in the same circumstances. People who are trying to win, who try to explain why things are or are not a specific way, and who are just trying to have a community with a concordant exchange of intelligent viable idea.
Unfortunately this is not always a good place for it. A friend of mine, whom I shall not name, described the posters here as being "80% just retarded". There is a constant whirl of breakneck idiocy on some matters, and anyone willing to point it out is told that they are a mindless parrot for pro written articles, told that the point of the game is to have fun, that they "just want to fight", that they don't playtest, are fabricating results, stealing ideas, or doing things that are somehow wrong. And the term "spike", ignoring the fundamental inanity of psychographic profiling, is used as some kind of insult.
Competitive magic is a contest, and like any it has to have a winner. People play to win, and when the better posters here tell you something is bad, you have to understand that they're giving you advice assuming you too want to win. Because the odds are that you haven't discovered some incredible tech, or crafted the next great competitive deck. Paternal pride is blinding you to the fact that whatever you've posted is likely nothing innovative or good.
Everyone needs to stop fighting to the bitter end over every dumb idea that gets proposed, and the people who are suggesting them need to realize that advice given to them by many posters presupposes that you too want to win. If you're not trying to optimize a competitive deck, then make that clear. Don't argue and defend yourself for three pages of drek before you decide to insult everyone and tell them they take the game too seriously.
Competitive magic is a contest, and like any it has to have a winner. People play to win, and when the better posters here tell you something is bad, you have to understand that they're giving you advice assuming you too want to win. Because the odds are that you haven't discovered some incredible tech, or crafted the next great competitive deck. Paternal pride is blinding you to the fact that whatever you've posted is likely nothing innovative or good.
Thank you, that is all.
Haha, thought this part was golden. Why don't you make us all a list of the "better posters" so we all know who to listen to and who to ignore.
turbofog and austrian america control are both competitively playable control decks in this metgame. tier 1 or 1.5 depend how you view their strengths.
Haha, thought this part was golden. Why don't you make us all a list of the "better posters" so we all know who to listen to and who to ignore.
Here I'll get you started:
List of "better posters":
1. Elysium
That is all.
Yes, this is clearly just an ego trip. I want everyone to mindlessly listen to everything I say, and think there should be no room for discussion.
I'm not going to post a list of people so you can proceed to then get butthurt and ignore it. But half an ounce of common sense and intelligence should show you that there are some people who post here who know what they are talking about, and a whole boatload of people who probably have trouble tying their own shoes.
That aside, why do you keep posting stinging criticism about obviously novice player's ideas if you are fully aware it will not end well? Just keep your mouth shut if you hate it so much, and only post in threads where there are 'better posters'.
That aside, why do you keep posting stinging criticism about obviously novice player's ideas if you are fully aware it will not end well? Just keep your mouth shut if you hate it so much, and only post in threads where there are 'better posters'.
Oh, I am.
And the problem is that there are nonesuch. Even with the competitive forum splitting, the same things happen in every thread on the damn board with alarming frequency.
And the problem is that there are nonesuch. Even with the competitive forum splitting, the same things happen in every thread on the damn board with alarming frequency.
I'm glad we agree. Like I said, though, just do not comment on ideas that you think are bad if you know it will end up in a flame war, doesn't matter what thread or forum it's in. I don't think the admins are going to make a list of 'good posters' and make them a private forum anytime soon (although that would be nice). If you really continue to have a problem, find a private playtest group whether from your local area or online. Just giving advice here.
"A friend of mine, whom I shall not name, described the posters here as being "80% just retarded"."
Much closer to 90%-95% IMO
Agreed here. When newly made "competitive" threads were immediately derailed by people making absolutely stupid tech suggestions (splashing green in Boros Bushwhacker, are you kidding me), it became rather obvious :facepalm:.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy: UBRGW T.E.S. UUUSpiral Tide
Modern: UBR Grixis Control
EDH: UB Oona, Queen of the Fae
Combo is a part of magic. If you cant deal with combo then your not a magic player.
I'm glad we agree. Like I said, though, just do not comment on ideas that you think are bad if you know it will end up in a flame war, doesn't matter what thread or forum it's in. I don't think the admins are going to make a list of 'good posters' and make them a private forum anytime soon (although that would be nice). If you really continue to have a problem, find a private playtest group whether from your local area or online. Just giving advice here.
I do have a playtest group. I don't have to use mws or modo for it. I come here for my own amusement, and because there are occasional pearls within the dross.
I do have a playtest group. I don't have to use mws or modo for it. I come here for my own amusement, and because there are occasional pearls within the dross.
You probably just need to resist the urge to post solely to call people bad and ignore them. I know its hard, I post to tell people they're bad and I've gotten a few infractions for it (also got one for trying to help someone, so my view of moderators is kinda wonky), im sure you have your share of infractions as well.
Anyway the point is... just let it go, respond to good posts and ignore bad ones. I guess this advice is as much for myself though.
Honestly though, this guy has a point. Especially in Competitive (and I guess developing competitive) absolutely none of us want to know why you think bloodghast is good in Jund or why UW control should run some some cascade stuff with their counterspells. There is something to be said for moving the level of discussion up a notch.
Honestly though, this guy has a point. Especially in Competitive (and I guess developing competitive) absolutely none of us want to know why you think bloodghast is good in Jund or why UW control should run some some cascade stuff with their counterspells. There is something to be said for moving the level of discussion up a notch.
^This. As was said, sifting through 50 pages of mindless argument to find one good decklist is extremely annoying.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy: UBRGW T.E.S. UUUSpiral Tide
Modern: UBR Grixis Control
EDH: UB Oona, Queen of the Fae
Combo is a part of magic. If you cant deal with combo then your not a magic player.
I come here for my own amusement, and because there are occasional pearls within the dross.
Judging by the very fact that you made this thread, you obviously aren't here for amusement. Yes, occasionally there are some good ideas, but I mostly come here to see how decks are doing and maybe share my ideas on a deck I think is good or one that I play. Trying to slog through Developing Competitive is like attending a school for the mentally challenged. It's still a school, but you feel dumber when you come out.
When I play magic, I am not hellbent on making it a fun experience for my opponent. In a tournament I am trying to win. Inasmuch I am going to do my best to playtest decks. I will take things which are suited to the metagame. I will run lists as close to optimal as I can to try to win.
I am a control player at heart, and I love blue. However, when the meta is inhospitable for control, I will not try to force it. I'll play whatever I think has the best chance in the metagame. If I do not have all the cards in my possession, I will borrow them or buy them.
When someone suggests a bad card, or claims a bad deck is some savage tech, states that it is a good idea to run 63 cards, or something else equally inane, I will argue with them. I will tell them they are wrong. I will go so far as to openly call them an idiot.
Well, as many others have said- this post is just beyond words in terms of arrogance and ignorance.
Your post, in summary- It's ok to have ideas, but if they are not similar, if not at least mirroring, to mine then they are not worthy of thought.
While I may be more generally unkind about it, there are a large number of players here who are in the same circumstances. People who are trying to win, who try to explain why things are or are not a specific way, and who are just trying to have a community with a concordant exchange of intelligent viable idea.
Again, congratulations on the trying-to-win thing. Really, I'm enthusiastic over your effort.
Unfortunately this is not always a good place for it. A friend of mine, whom I shall not name, described the posters here as being "80% just retarded". There is a constant whirl of breakneck idiocy on some matters, and anyone willing to point it out is told that they are a mindless parrot for pro written articles, told that the point of the game is to have fun, that they "just want to fight", that they don't playtest, are fabricating results, stealing ideas, or doing things that are somehow wrong. And the term "spike", ignoring the fundamental inanity of psychographic profiling, is used as some kind of insult.
Hi, welcome to the Win@Magic Forums.
Oh wait, that's right. This isn't "Win@Magic" or any variation of it. This is MTGSalvation, shortened of MagicTheGatheringSalvation, and from what any body with more than half a brain can understand is not solely devoted to elite competition and tournament success for Magic The Gathering. If you came here thinking otherwise, then you are in the 20% of the website that a friend of mine, also whom shall remain nameless, has dubbed "Dumber than retarded with little chance of having a 'life'."
Competitive magic is a contest, and like any it has to have a winner. People play to win, and when the better posters here tell you something is bad, you have to understand that they're giving you advice assuming you too want to win. Because the odds are that you haven't discovered some incredible tech, or crafted the next great competitive deck. Paternal pride is blinding you to the fact that whatever you've posted is likely nothing innovative or good.
Let's be realistic- why would you post on a forum, asking questions, or give suggestions on something that everyone else can agree is in no need of change? That's what you do when you compete at your level- you overcomplicate the game and mirror tournament winning decks until someone comes out with the best kind. There are articles among pages of that stuff, with series of expert-level tournament results. Sorry, but it seems you view MTGSalvation as a forum where people join when they "Just haven't caught on yet".
Everyone needs to stop fighting to the bitter end over every dumb idea that gets proposed, and the people who are suggesting them need to realize that advice given to them by many posters presupposes that you too want to win. If you're not trying to optimize a competitive deck, then make that clear. Don't argue and defend yourself for three pages of drek before you decide to insult everyone and tell them they take the game too seriously.
Thank you, that is all.
And maybe those posters should try reading. Just saying, if you acknowledged earlier that posters say the game is "To have fun", then presupposition of winning should not be the idea and the fact that you're arguing at that particular point in time is due to your own stupidty, lack of understanding, and overall arrogance as a human being.
Though he is a douche (and at least admits it freely) he is correct on many points, but the big problem I have with douchebags like Elysium is the pride and amusement they find in flaming and ripping on obviously novice players. Things degenerate quickly when you fire blazing salvos at people (even if they are dead, flat wrong about their suggestions) rather than attempt reasonable discussion. I know sometimes this is entirely impossible to accomplish, but if it fails, I just say this:
Bugger it.
Ignore it. Let them fail, let people that follow that thinking fail and go with what you know is right. If the mods are somehow able to limit the, how do I put this politely... substandard suggestions in the competitive threads, then things may improve. How easily this can be accomplished is hard to say. But if they don't, then leave it to sit. It's fruitless to be so offensive and just leads to banning, as it has with so many other DBs that have rolled through, and out, of here. Between arrogant, prideful, offensive prats and poorly skilled players, I will take the latter - because something positive might come of them with help and guidance, rather than flaming. Some of these players may not want to accept that help even then, but at worst they can be ignored and left to their own devices.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Decks
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite) Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks) Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks) Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
Re DjJoe227: okay yeah he has a point, but Competitive and Developing competitive mean just that. If you have no clue as to what you should be doing, you might want to refrain from posting in threads where people talk authoritatively about t1 decks.
I see threads like this from time to time, and they always dissapoint me. People who think they are the next Finkel always seem to have bad attitudes towards those who don't have the same knowledge as they do. If someone suggests soemthing stupid, it's easy enough to correct them, nicely explain why, and move on. Hopefully they learn something. These forums are meant to provide information, and fun. If you are a winner, and only have fun winning; then go tune your deck, win some matches, and shut up about it.
The fact that you like to win games does not make you a better person, more deserving of a voice on the forums, or justified in ranting about how stupid people are.
Yes, this is clearly just an ego trip. I want everyone to mindlessly listen to everything I say, and think there should be no room for discussion.
I'm not going to post a list of people so you can proceed to then get butthurt and ignore it. But half an ounce of common sense and intelligence should show you that there are some people who post here who know what they are talking about, and a whole boatload of people who probably have trouble tying their own shoes.
I actually agree with you on a lot of your points and I don't expect a list, I was just boning you.
I just always find it funny though when people go to great lengths to post their life's mission statement on a message board. It's a bit self-serving/egotistical, don't you think? I'd do it but I doubt anyone would care.
Either way, good luck with the whole trying to make everyone on MTGS a better player thing.
I see threads like this from time to time, and they always dissapoint me. People who think they are the next Finkel always seem to have bad attitudes towards those who don't have the same knowledge as they do. If someone suggests soemthing stupid, it's easy enough to correct them, nicely explain why, and move on. Hopefully they learn something. These forums are meant to provide information, and fun. If you are a winner, and only have fun winning; then go tune your deck, win some matches, and shut up about it.
The fact that you like to win games does not make you a better person, more deserving of a voice on the forums, or justified in ranting about how stupid people are.
I don't claim to be the next finkel, nor am I always correct about magic.
Before you attribute a stance to someone, try and figure out if its actually theirs.
You know I agree with you.
I didn't lobby for Baneslayers in trades for weeks to put them in a pile of jank. I enjoy Magic, but I enjoy it because I like to win, and I like to hang out with people.
If you want to be bad, that's your problem. But SERIOUSLY, do not insult those of us that bash your ideas on the basis of legitimate competitive magic, not your pet decks. I'm not mindless. In fact, I think that playing an optimal deck is anything but.
I think that's the reason there are separate forums for competitive and budget/casual/kitchen table.
I also think there's no need to be agressive or call people idiot because they don't agree with you. 63 card on a deck is usually a lame idea, but once in a while it MIGHT be a good plan. Bad cards can prove to have sinergies beyond what is already proven strong, as can unusual counters.
If you disagree with someone you can always tell it in a gentle way. If they hear your advice or not is their problem. If you call someone idiot over not obeying your orders to shape their decks, it's really lame from you. It's their decks, their problem.
I really don't see it frequently here. Once I tell someone why the usual tech is better than their new idea (if the idea is really inferior), usually people converse with me peacefuly and even end up agreeing. Maybe you're just too confrontational.
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Alea iacta est
I'm a Spike Vorthos - I love lore and flavor, but only if the cards are competition worthy.
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I am a control player at heart, and I love blue. However, when the meta is inhospitable for control, I will not try to force it. I'll play whatever I think has the best chance in the metagame. If I do not have all the cards in my possession, I will borrow them or buy them.
When someone suggests a bad card, or claims a bad deck is some savage tech, states that it is a good idea to run 63 cards, or something else equally inane, I will argue with them. I will tell them they are wrong. I will go so far as to openly call them an idiot.
While I may be more generally unkind about it, there are a large number of players here who are in the same circumstances. People who are trying to win, who try to explain why things are or are not a specific way, and who are just trying to have a community with a concordant exchange of intelligent viable idea.
Unfortunately this is not always a good place for it. A friend of mine, whom I shall not name, described the posters here as being "80% just retarded". There is a constant whirl of breakneck idiocy on some matters, and anyone willing to point it out is told that they are a mindless parrot for pro written articles, told that the point of the game is to have fun, that they "just want to fight", that they don't playtest, are fabricating results, stealing ideas, or doing things that are somehow wrong. And the term "spike", ignoring the fundamental inanity of psychographic profiling, is used as some kind of insult.
Competitive magic is a contest, and like any it has to have a winner. People play to win, and when the better posters here tell you something is bad, you have to understand that they're giving you advice assuming you too want to win. Because the odds are that you haven't discovered some incredible tech, or crafted the next great competitive deck. Paternal pride is blinding you to the fact that whatever you've posted is likely nothing innovative or good.
Everyone needs to stop fighting to the bitter end over every dumb idea that gets proposed, and the people who are suggesting them need to realize that advice given to them by many posters presupposes that you too want to win. If you're not trying to optimize a competitive deck, then make that clear. Don't argue and defend yourself for three pages of drek before you decide to insult everyone and tell them they take the game too seriously.
Thank you, that is all.
"A friend of mine, whom I shall not name, described the posters here as being "80% just retarded"."
Much closer to 90%-95% IMO
may blue control rise again
The answer is still NO
Haha, thought this part was golden. Why don't you make us all a list of the "better posters" so we all know who to listen to and who to ignore.
Here I'll get you started:
List of "better posters":
1. Elysium
That is all.
turbofog and austrian america control are both competitively playable control decks in this metgame. tier 1 or 1.5 depend how you view their strengths.
blue is definitely not dead.
Like anime? My AnimeList Profile: zero_99
You can find me on MODO ID: 07Ghost
Yes, this is clearly just an ego trip. I want everyone to mindlessly listen to everything I say, and think there should be no room for discussion.
I'm not going to post a list of people so you can proceed to then get butthurt and ignore it. But half an ounce of common sense and intelligence should show you that there are some people who post here who know what they are talking about, and a whole boatload of people who probably have trouble tying their own shoes.
That aside, why do you keep posting stinging criticism about obviously novice player's ideas if you are fully aware it will not end well? Just keep your mouth shut if you hate it so much, and only post in threads where there are 'better posters'.
Oh, I am.
And the problem is that there are nonesuch. Even with the competitive forum splitting, the same things happen in every thread on the damn board with alarming frequency.
I'm glad we agree. Like I said, though, just do not comment on ideas that you think are bad if you know it will end up in a flame war, doesn't matter what thread or forum it's in. I don't think the admins are going to make a list of 'good posters' and make them a private forum anytime soon (although that would be nice). If you really continue to have a problem, find a private playtest group whether from your local area or online. Just giving advice here.
Agreed here. When newly made "competitive" threads were immediately derailed by people making absolutely stupid tech suggestions (splashing green in Boros Bushwhacker, are you kidding me), it became rather obvious :facepalm:.
UBRGW T.E.S.
UUUSpiral Tide
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
EDH:
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae
Combo is a part of magic. If you cant deal with combo then your not a magic player.
I do have a playtest group. I don't have to use mws or modo for it. I come here for my own amusement, and because there are occasional pearls within the dross.
doesn't when people suggest splashing black for boro, and when people actually play it and report it sucks hard amusing to read?
but this thread will eventually lead to flame warz.
Like anime? My AnimeList Profile: zero_99
You can find me on MODO ID: 07Ghost
You probably just need to resist the urge to post solely to call people bad and ignore them. I know its hard, I post to tell people they're bad and I've gotten a few infractions for it (also got one for trying to help someone, so my view of moderators is kinda wonky), im sure you have your share of infractions as well.
Anyway the point is... just let it go, respond to good posts and ignore bad ones. I guess this advice is as much for myself though.
In before thread locked!
^This. As was said, sifting through 50 pages of mindless argument to find one good decklist is extremely annoying.
UBRGW T.E.S.
UUUSpiral Tide
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
EDH:
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae
Combo is a part of magic. If you cant deal with combo then your not a magic player.
Judging by the very fact that you made this thread, you obviously aren't here for amusement. Yes, occasionally there are some good ideas, but I mostly come here to see how decks are doing and maybe share my ideas on a deck I think is good or one that I play. Trying to slog through Developing Competitive is like attending a school for the mentally challenged. It's still a school, but you feel dumber when you come out.
Er, Congratulations?
Er, Sorry but keep up the good effort?
Well, as many others have said- this post is just beyond words in terms of arrogance and ignorance.
Your post, in summary- It's ok to have ideas, but if they are not similar, if not at least mirroring, to mine then they are not worthy of thought.
Again, congratulations on the trying-to-win thing. Really, I'm enthusiastic over your effort.
Hi, welcome to the Win@Magic Forums.
Oh wait, that's right. This isn't "Win@Magic" or any variation of it. This is MTGSalvation, shortened of MagicTheGatheringSalvation, and from what any body with more than half a brain can understand is not solely devoted to elite competition and tournament success for Magic The Gathering. If you came here thinking otherwise, then you are in the 20% of the website that a friend of mine, also whom shall remain nameless, has dubbed "Dumber than retarded with little chance of having a 'life'."
Let's be realistic- why would you post on a forum, asking questions, or give suggestions on something that everyone else can agree is in no need of change? That's what you do when you compete at your level- you overcomplicate the game and mirror tournament winning decks until someone comes out with the best kind. There are articles among pages of that stuff, with series of expert-level tournament results. Sorry, but it seems you view MTGSalvation as a forum where people join when they "Just haven't caught on yet".
And maybe those posters should try reading. Just saying, if you acknowledged earlier that posters say the game is "To have fun", then presupposition of winning should not be the idea and the fact that you're arguing at that particular point in time is due to your own stupidty, lack of understanding, and overall arrogance as a human being.
Thank you, that is all.
Bugger it.
Ignore it. Let them fail, let people that follow that thinking fail and go with what you know is right. If the mods are somehow able to limit the, how do I put this politely... substandard suggestions in the competitive threads, then things may improve. How easily this can be accomplished is hard to say. But if they don't, then leave it to sit. It's fruitless to be so offensive and just leads to banning, as it has with so many other DBs that have rolled through, and out, of here. Between arrogant, prideful, offensive prats and poorly skilled players, I will take the latter - because something positive might come of them with help and guidance, rather than flaming. Some of these players may not want to accept that help even then, but at worst they can be ignored and left to their own devices.
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite)
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks)
Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks)
Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
Standard
Waiting for Innistrad...
Extended
Hah!
Modern
Living End Cascade (RGB)
Legacy
Burn
Vintage
None
Casual
WB Aggro-Control
Green Stompy
Pink Floyd (UWr Wall Control)
Lunch Box (Fatty ramp)
D-Bag (White Control)
Level 13 Task Mage
The fact that you like to win games does not make you a better person, more deserving of a voice on the forums, or justified in ranting about how stupid people are.
I actually agree with you on a lot of your points and I don't expect a list, I was just boning you.
I just always find it funny though when people go to great lengths to post their life's mission statement on a message board. It's a bit self-serving/egotistical, don't you think? I'd do it but I doubt anyone would care.
Either way, good luck with the whole trying to make everyone on MTGS a better player thing.
P.S. - I too await blue's return...
I don't claim to be the next finkel, nor am I always correct about magic.
Before you attribute a stance to someone, try and figure out if its actually theirs.
Funny, I've been winning at magic and actually making friends. Thanks for opening my eyes, (Edited to be nicer.)
I didn't lobby for Baneslayers in trades for weeks to put them in a pile of jank. I enjoy Magic, but I enjoy it because I like to win, and I like to hang out with people.
If you want to be bad, that's your problem. But SERIOUSLY, do not insult those of us that bash your ideas on the basis of legitimate competitive magic, not your pet decks. I'm not mindless. In fact, I think that playing an optimal deck is anything but.
I also think there's no need to be agressive or call people idiot because they don't agree with you. 63 card on a deck is usually a lame idea, but once in a while it MIGHT be a good plan. Bad cards can prove to have sinergies beyond what is already proven strong, as can unusual counters.
If you disagree with someone you can always tell it in a gentle way. If they hear your advice or not is their problem. If you call someone idiot over not obeying your orders to shape their decks, it's really lame from you. It's their decks, their problem.
I really don't see it frequently here. Once I tell someone why the usual tech is better than their new idea (if the idea is really inferior), usually people converse with me peacefuly and even end up agreeing. Maybe you're just too confrontational.
I'm a Spike Vorthos - I love lore and flavor, but only if the cards are competition worthy.