Can we include decks in this forum that rely on halimar excavator rather than hedron crabs? I recognize that there is an ally thread above but bant mill allies is pretty far removed from the typically aggro oriented discussion in the ally thread.
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T2: UWB Open the Vaults UWB UWG Milllies UWG RB Blightning Aggro RB
T1.5: RBU Underworld Dreams RBU
T1: U Mono-Blue Control U
It's an odd deck, but it has posted surprisingly solid results. I've seen it called "Pla B" a few times too since it flips from Mill to brutal Aggro pretty fast and with the SB, it takes on aggro pretty well.
Is it tier 1? Probably not. Have people done well with it? Yeah.
Why not put in tideforce elemental + lotus cobra combo? Have some crabs in play, use the knight, landfall triggers for mill, untapping the elemental, generate U with cobra, use it to untap the knight, use the knight again, etc. Mills them out at once if you have enough crabs in play and lands in your deck.
Then you can SB into bant landfall goodstuff type deck?
Why not put in tideforce elemental + lotus cobra combo? Have some crabs in play, use the knight, landfall triggers for mill, untapping the elemental, generate U with cobra, use it to untap the knight, use the knight again, etc. Mills them out at once if you have enough crabs in play and lands in your deck.
Then you can SB into bant landfall goodstuff type deck?
When you suggest that a deck add something, it's helpful to suggest what they drop to make room. Adding a couple of 2/1s that cost 2 and 3 don't seem to help the deck hold up any better than what's already there. If they cost 1 and could be easily tutored, I could see that, but they aren't. This deck looks pretty goofy, but it's really tight.
Personally, I don't see anything from Worldwake that looks like Maindeck material yet. Bojuka Bog as a 2 of, maybe a set of Rest for the Weary, and that's it.
you might try the ruin ghost that blinks out a land to trigger another landfall and make this a landfall deck... that could be aggro and mills at the same time...
you might try the ruin ghost that blinks out a land to trigger another landfall and make this a landfall deck... that could be aggro and mills at the same time...
I recently tested a similar deck that ran -4 Gift of the Gargantuan, -2 Noble Hierarch, +4 Wargate, +1 Trapmaker's Snare, +1 Pitfall Trap.
Wargate acts as an accelerator that nets you as many landfalls as Harrow (if you grab a fetch land) for the same CMC. It also lets you grab your Hedron Crab for 4 or a Knight late game. The Pitfall Trap turns your Trapmaker's Snares into removal spells in addition to Archive Traps 5-8. I think that one of the strengths of playing Bant mill rather than UW Jacerator is that you have so much versatility. "Plan B" sounds like an apt name for the deck. It is able to handle so many situations without losing its tight focus.
How is this bant mill?? Bant mill would include howling mine, font of mythos, fog, safe passage, angel song. You know the usual mill cards. try it out, really works if you get the lands right.
How is this bant mill?? Bant mill would include howling mine, font of mythos, fog, safe passage, angel song. You know the usual mill cards. try it out, really works if you get the lands right.
The deck you are talking about is Turbofog. Turbofog is fine and all, but this is a completely different deck, plays totally different, and uses a completely different means to mill your opponent. Why not try to make an actual contribution? Or have you not played the deck (with or against) at all?
I have been playin this deck lately. It looks bad, but plays pretty well. Extremely good matchups vs RDW, Vampires, and pretty much any deck that cant remove wall of reverance.
I Playtested this deck alot today as I am preparing myself for Weekend of PTQ's.
I won everymatch i had.
Jund/Vampires/Ally Mill/ Discard/ Valakut Ramp and probably some more.
I was wondering if you could give me a hint on SB as i'm not sure on when i should put in Grim Discovery.
And is Spreading Seas better than VInes?
Here is how i board.
Board out Archive/Snares vs Aggro or Discard. You can still win with just crabs, but you need a better aggro option vs these decks and card advanage. So vampires, Jund, Junk and RDW. Your are going to play defensively and gain life if you cant attack and mill them with crabs.
Board out Wall of Revenance/Path vs Grixis or RWU Control. Board in Stags and Grim Discovery in these situations. Be aggressive, and reserve either option to beat down you enemy or Mill them out.
Grim discovery is good vs sweaper decks, drop a crab and a knight and force them to DOJ then grim and pull either back. Vines of Vastwood is good vs jund but nets little card advanage in most situations. Spreading seas helps you lock jund out of a color, preferably black. If you can lock a jund player out of black its pretty much GG.
I have won games where my opponet had a full board but i had a Giant Knight and Wall of reverance and I just took the damage. In this standstill, im going to beat them with crabs.
What about -3 Trapmaker's Snare and -1 Gift of the Gargantuan for +4 Tome Scour? I never tested yet going to right now and I'll get back to you guys.
Trapmaker's Snare is basically a way of guaranteeing you get 26 for 2 mana every game. They take one of the strongest mill spells and essentially give you 7-8 of them in your deck. DO NOT DROP THEM!!! They also allow you to call up Sideboard Tech.
Tome Scour doesn't do enough to help combo off. This deck really does a two-turn mill and you need to stay focused on that. Just ask yourself, "Does Tome Scour do as much as Archive Trap?" because you are suggesting that we ditch 3 of them. And Gift of the Gargantuan is a relatively new addition to the deck and I haven't played with it yet. I ran Walls of Denial instead, but the ability to grab more creatures and land seems pretty good.
Trapmaker's Snare is basically a way of guaranteeing you get 26 for 2 mana every game. They take one of the strongest mill spells and essentially give you 7-8 of them in your deck. DO NOT DROP THEM!!! They also allow you to call up Sideboard Tech.
Tome Scour doesn't do enough to help combo off. This deck really does a two-turn mill and you need to stay focused on that. Just ask yourself, "Does Tome Scour do as much as Archive Trap?" because you are suggesting that we ditch 3 of them. And Gift of the Gargantuan is a relatively new addition to the deck and I haven't played with it yet. I ran Walls of Denial instead, but the ability to grab more creatures and land seems pretty good.
Hummm I'm asking myself does Tome Scour do as much and Archive Trap and the answer is 1 Archive Trap > 1 Tome Scour BUT I can hard cast all 4 Tome Scour before you get off 1 Archive Trap IF they don't fall for the Trap. I've played a few games with both now and I'm still undecided between Trapmaker's Snare and Tome Scour. I do like Gift of the Gargantuan a lot and I think it's going to be a part of my 75 for sure as is Grim Discovery both MD. More testing is need.
On another note having trouble Jund even if I get a really good start. If they have a sweeper Jund Charm or Pyroclasm I can't keep up even with Grim Discovery and Ranger of Eos Maybe I'm playing wrong. How do you guys play against jund?
I was playing this before WWK came out, mostly because people started to expect me playing Jacerator.
I've done reasonably well with it, posting a winning record, anyway. But I've noticed little discussion about WWK cards here. I'm in "OMGWTFBBQ NEW SET!" mode now so I have seven decks built but I really want to come back to this deck. What from WWK is worth running here?
Also, has anyone calculated the likelihood of having four ATraps in your opener? Just curious.
EDIT: Also, where is the OP list from? I was running a similar list that I purloined from the mothership. This is slightly different, notable for the black splash.
Hummm I'm asking myself does Tome Scour do as much and Archive Trap and the answer is 1 Archive Trap > 1 Tome Scour BUT I can hard cast all 4 Tome Scour before you get off 1 Archive Trap IF they don't fall for the Trap. I've played a few games with both now and I'm still undecided between Trapmaker's Snare and Tome Scour. I do like Gift of the Gargantuan a lot and I think it's going to be a part of my 75 for sure as is Grim Discovery both MD. More testing is need.
On another note having trouble Jund even if I get a really good start. If they have a sweeper Jund Charm or Pyroclasm I can't keep up even with Grim Discovery and Ranger of Eos Maybe I'm playing wrong. How do you guys play against jund?
Jund has actually been pretty easy for me. The key is to never play your crabs until later in the game and you have a few fetchlands out. I also run 4 MD Walls of Denial and those are great against Jund. Grim Discovery helps with that match up as well.
I pllayed this deck twice this week, going 3-2 and 3-1. My list is the same as the OP but I opted to run a single Celestial Collonade instead of the swamp. I ran a pretty standard SB (3 Negate, 4 SSeas, 4 GSS, 4 RWM) that happens to be decent in my meta.
I had a couple of matches yesterday that might not be familiar to all, given the new metagame, so I'll briefly talk about them here.
-Round one, I played WW allies. The pilot is a strong player in general and a buddy of mine. I know what his deck does but knowing that he's going to T1 Freeblade, T2 Blademaster, T3 Evangel, T4 Paladin just makes it more painful. Evangel+Brave the Elements is scary. I won both games (2/3) because I milled him out the turn before he would've swung for lethal. I didn't SB much (boarded in Seas, I think, for Gifts: Seas on an Emeria or any land in a deck that runs 22 land and need WW helps slow them down). The deck doesn't run much removal so I shamelessly dropped guys and won Game three with four Crabs on the board: cracked an Expanse, milled 12; used Reliquary to fetch a fetch, milled 12; cracked fetch, GG.
-Round two, I played RDW. Game one was a complete wash: I was dead on T4 or 5. An early Wall is good but generally isn't enough. I boarded in RWM (duh) and Negates, taking out the Trap/Snare package. I mulled to five games 2 and 3 but had RWM and Negate G2 and RWM and Wall G3. When they're Bolting/Bursting your Monk and you have Negate back up, I think we call it card advantage.
-Round three, I played that RB Vamps monstrosity. I won G1 anyway but boarded in my entire SB for a very easy G2.
-Round three, I lost to what I consider to be a fairly standard, optiman momB vamps list. He Mind Sludged T5 G1 and Durressed away my Seas G2. I boarded in my entire SB but a couple of Negates and one GSS isn't enough when I milled three of his Ghasts early game. Milling vamps is obviously a gamble but I think the threat of mill is the scariest thing for them as it seems to cause them to think twice about cracking fetches (of course).
I honestly have no complaints about the deck: it's a well-oiled machine.
Singleton Collonade never hurt me and helped a little on occasion (netting me more life with Wall, swinging, blocking, etc.)>
It's pretty much the same thing I had before. I still think that Archive Trap is worth running 8 of them, so I'm holding onto the full set of snares. Since I have been getting better with the deck, I hold back my creatures a lot more and can hit them with the 2nd turn mill for 26 pretty often with the trap/snare. When I first started playing this deck, I was way to focused on milling them with crabs, but Archive trap will get you there too.
Anyway, Worldwake hasn't give me much so far. The biggest contribution it may make to this deck is not the cards; but the cooling down RDW. Control is usually pretty easy for mill decks, but this one has a lot of creatures so I don't know. Here's what I got:
It's only 3 color, but I might splash black just to give me access to Grim Discovery. It's a great card for this deck, and it may very well bump out the Hierarchs.
4 Island
2 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Hedron Crab
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Ranger of Eos
3 Wall of Reverence
4 Gift of the Gargantuan
4 Path to Exile
3 Trapmaker's Snare
4 Great Sable Stag
2 Grim Discovery
2 Mind Control
4 Rhox War Monk
3 Vines of Vastwood
Budget discussion is STRICTLY prohibited in this forum. This means that no discussions related to cost or availability of a card.
Thanks!
UWB Open the Vaults UWB
UWG Milllies UWG
RB Blightning Aggro RB
T1.5:
RBU Underworld Dreams RBU
T1:
U Mono-Blue Control U
I had no idea Bant mill was considered competitive in the least. Esper always made more sense to me.
Here is the old thread that a few of us were kicking around.
It's an odd deck, but it has posted surprisingly solid results. I've seen it called "Pla B" a few times too since it flips from Mill to brutal Aggro pretty fast and with the SB, it takes on aggro pretty well.
Is it tier 1? Probably not. Have people done well with it? Yeah.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Then you can SB into bant landfall goodstuff type deck?
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Playing:
WU Empty Throne Control
WUG Bant Stoic Control
When you suggest that a deck add something, it's helpful to suggest what they drop to make room. Adding a couple of 2/1s that cost 2 and 3 don't seem to help the deck hold up any better than what's already there. If they cost 1 and could be easily tutored, I could see that, but they aren't. This deck looks pretty goofy, but it's really tight.
Personally, I don't see anything from Worldwake that looks like Maindeck material yet. Bojuka Bog as a 2 of, maybe a set of Rest for the Weary, and that's it.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
WUB: Sharuum The Hegemon
WUG: Rafiq of the Many
WU: Bruna, Light of Alabaster
And take what out?
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Wargate acts as an accelerator that nets you as many landfalls as Harrow (if you grab a fetch land) for the same CMC. It also lets you grab your Hedron Crab for 4 or a Knight late game. The Pitfall Trap turns your Trapmaker's Snares into removal spells in addition to Archive Traps 5-8. I think that one of the strengths of playing Bant mill rather than UW Jacerator is that you have so much versatility. "Plan B" sounds like an apt name for the deck. It is able to handle so many situations without losing its tight focus.
The deck you are talking about is Turbofog. Turbofog is fine and all, but this is a completely different deck, plays totally different, and uses a completely different means to mill your opponent. Why not try to make an actual contribution? Or have you not played the deck (with or against) at all?
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
4 Island
2 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Hedron Crab
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Ranger of Eos
3 Wall of Reverence
4 Archive Trap
4 Gift of the Gargantuan
4 Path to Exile
3 Trapmaker's Snare
1 Scute Mob
4 Rhox War monk
4 Great Sable Stag
4 Spreading Sea
3 Grim Discovery
I love to pull out archive trap and Snares to keep a beatdown option.
Here is how i board.
Board out Archive/Snares vs Aggro or Discard. You can still win with just crabs, but you need a better aggro option vs these decks and card advanage. So vampires, Jund, Junk and RDW. Your are going to play defensively and gain life if you cant attack and mill them with crabs.
Board out Wall of Revenance/Path vs Grixis or RWU Control. Board in Stags and Grim Discovery in these situations. Be aggressive, and reserve either option to beat down you enemy or Mill them out.
Grim discovery is good vs sweaper decks, drop a crab and a knight and force them to DOJ then grim and pull either back. Vines of Vastwood is good vs jund but nets little card advanage in most situations. Spreading seas helps you lock jund out of a color, preferably black. If you can lock a jund player out of black its pretty much GG.
I have won games where my opponet had a full board but i had a Giant Knight and Wall of reverance and I just took the damage. In this standstill, im going to beat them with crabs.
What about -3 Trapmaker's Snare and -1 Gift of the Gargantuan for +4 Tome Scour? I never tested yet going to right now and I'll get back to you guys.
Trapmaker's Snare is basically a way of guaranteeing you get 26 for 2 mana every game. They take one of the strongest mill spells and essentially give you 7-8 of them in your deck. DO NOT DROP THEM!!! They also allow you to call up Sideboard Tech.
Tome Scour doesn't do enough to help combo off. This deck really does a two-turn mill and you need to stay focused on that. Just ask yourself, "Does Tome Scour do as much as Archive Trap?" because you are suggesting that we ditch 3 of them. And Gift of the Gargantuan is a relatively new addition to the deck and I haven't played with it yet. I ran Walls of Denial instead, but the ability to grab more creatures and land seems pretty good.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Hummm I'm asking myself does Tome Scour do as much and Archive Trap and the answer is 1 Archive Trap > 1 Tome Scour BUT I can hard cast all 4 Tome Scour before you get off 1 Archive Trap IF they don't fall for the Trap. I've played a few games with both now and I'm still undecided between Trapmaker's Snare and Tome Scour. I do like Gift of the Gargantuan a lot and I think it's going to be a part of my 75 for sure as is Grim Discovery both MD. More testing is need.
On another note having trouble Jund even if I get a really good start. If they have a sweeper Jund Charm or Pyroclasm I can't keep up even with Grim Discovery and Ranger of Eos Maybe I'm playing wrong. How do you guys play against jund?
I've done reasonably well with it, posting a winning record, anyway. But I've noticed little discussion about WWK cards here. I'm in "OMGWTFBBQ NEW SET!" mode now so I have seven decks built but I really want to come back to this deck. What from WWK is worth running here?
Also, has anyone calculated the likelihood of having four ATraps in your opener? Just curious.
EDIT: Also, where is the OP list from? I was running a similar list that I purloined from the mothership. This is slightly different, notable for the black splash.
Jund has actually been pretty easy for me. The key is to never play your crabs until later in the game and you have a few fetchlands out. I also run 4 MD Walls of Denial and those are great against Jund. Grim Discovery helps with that match up as well.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
It does not seem like the strongest of decks with having only Hedron Crab
and Archive Trap
as its theme cards.
But i suppose every deck has its weakness.
I had a couple of matches yesterday that might not be familiar to all, given the new metagame, so I'll briefly talk about them here.
-Round one, I played WW allies. The pilot is a strong player in general and a buddy of mine. I know what his deck does but knowing that he's going to T1 Freeblade, T2 Blademaster, T3 Evangel, T4 Paladin just makes it more painful. Evangel+Brave the Elements is scary. I won both games (2/3) because I milled him out the turn before he would've swung for lethal. I didn't SB much (boarded in Seas, I think, for Gifts: Seas on an Emeria or any land in a deck that runs 22 land and need WW helps slow them down). The deck doesn't run much removal so I shamelessly dropped guys and won Game three with four Crabs on the board: cracked an Expanse, milled 12; used Reliquary to fetch a fetch, milled 12; cracked fetch, GG.
-Round two, I played RDW. Game one was a complete wash: I was dead on T4 or 5. An early Wall is good but generally isn't enough. I boarded in RWM (duh) and Negates, taking out the Trap/Snare package. I mulled to five games 2 and 3 but had RWM and Negate G2 and RWM and Wall G3. When they're Bolting/Bursting your Monk and you have Negate back up, I think we call it card advantage.
-Round three, I played that RB Vamps monstrosity. I won G1 anyway but boarded in my entire SB for a very easy G2.
-Round three, I lost to what I consider to be a fairly standard, optiman momB vamps list. He Mind Sludged T5 G1 and Durressed away my Seas G2. I boarded in my entire SB but a couple of Negates and one GSS isn't enough when I milled three of his Ghasts early game. Milling vamps is obviously a gamble but I think the threat of mill is the scariest thing for them as it seems to cause them to think twice about cracking fetches (of course).
I honestly have no complaints about the deck: it's a well-oiled machine.
Singleton Collonade never hurt me and helped a little on occasion (netting me more life with Wall, swinging, blocking, etc.)>
Anyway, Worldwake hasn't give me much so far. The biggest contribution it may make to this deck is not the cards; but the cooling down RDW. Control is usually pretty easy for mill decks, but this one has a lot of creatures so I don't know. Here's what I got:
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Hedron Crabs
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Ranger of Eos
4 Wall of Denial
Spells - 14
4 Archive Trap
4 Path to Exile
4 Trapmaker's Snare
2 Wargate
4 Forest
4 Island
3 Plains
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Marsh Flats
4 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Verdant Catacomb
4 Rhox Warmonk
4 Negate
3 Wall of Reverence
1 Behemoth Sledge
1 Ravenous Trap
2 Baneslayer Angel
It's only 3 color, but I might splash black just to give me access to Grim Discovery. It's a great card for this deck, and it may very well bump out the Hierarchs.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.