General EDH Ban List Discussion

[Syphon]

As you can see in another of my threads, I have an extreme dislike for certain cards used in EDH. What I am doing here is posting a list with cards that are horrible to play against, as others agree with me. The use? To create a list that stops people from playing games which just involve you (on the receiving end of such decks) going "Ok" for about 15 times in their turn while some loop goes off. Feel free to weigh in on the list, with suggestions why a card listed should be removed or a card not yet listed should be added to it. My reasoning behind most of the cards: You don't have a 99 card library to play a game spanning a handful of turns. This format is designed for long games. You want a quick game, play a booster battle.

THIS IS NOT A RANT.
THIS LIST IS INTENDED FOR 1 V 1 EDH.

WORK IN PROGRESS

Please note:
Anybody posting suggestions without proper reasoning as to why their proposed cards should be removed/added will be reported, without exception.

Generals to be avoided:
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
Brokenly strong given that he can be played on turn 2, already giving you 2 mana + mana from your lands themselves at turn 3.
Arcum Dagsson
Sets up infinite combos.
Uril, the Miststalker
Halfshroud on its own accord with decent CCM and P/T make this a highly competitive (read: boring if you're playing against him) general.
Braids, Cabal Minion
Sucks all the fun out of a game when you haven't built for this.

Cards to be avoided:
The Power 9. They are the Power 9, after all.
Mox Pearl
Mox Jet
Mox Ruby
Mox Emerald
Mox Sapphire
Time Walk
Ancestrall Recall
Black Lotus
Timetwister

Balance
Crippling. There's a reason it wasn't reprinted.
Biorhythm
Paired with mana acceleration, the chance is high your enemy gets this off the ground before you do anything with it.
Coalition Victory
Instant wins are never fun, especially not when its conditions are so easily met with a format like ours.

Yawgmoth's Bargain
Allows the player to draw 39 cards in EDH, assuming no damage has been taken. In a deck of 99 cards, that's half your deck for free. Out of the question.

Crucible of World
After thinking about it some (read: being bothered about it) I've decided to remove the land destruction lands and add this.

[Weebos]

Is there not already an EDH banned list?
I see no reason for there to be another one.

Also my friend plays an extremely streamlined Uril, The Miststalker deck and he never wins our multiplayer games, I certainly see no reason for banning him. Perhaps you intend this list for 1 on 1?

[barhitea]

Whats wrong with the old dual lands? I don't see a problem with them. Sure people may not have access to them, but that doesn't stop legacy players from not using them. They're not a staple for sure, i've built many decks without them that still find ways to win, so I don't think they're that big of a deal.

Another card that I try to avoid is Strip Mine/Wasteland, Land Destruction really makes people dislike you, so avoiding it at all costs is necessary for me.

[Syphon]

Originally Posted by barhitea

Whats wrong with the old dual lands? I don't see a problem with them. Sure people may not have access to them, but that doesn't stop legacy players from not using them. They're not a staple for sure, i've built many decks without them that still find ways to win, so I don't think they're that big of a deal.

I stated this before: This is because there are no drawbacks involved. They don't CITP tapped or need you to pay 2 life to CITP untapped. In fact, I think that this list could probably start out by getting rid of the earlier sets completely.

Another card that I try to avoid is Strip Mine/Wasteland, Land Destruction really makes people dislike you, so avoiding it at all costs is necessary for me.

Agreed. Land destruction is a pain in the behind. Crucible of Worlds is okay (though "the other list" has it banned), but a no-no is definitely Strip Mine, Wasteland and other such recyclable shenanigans on lands.

Originally Posted by Weebos

Is there not already an EDH banned list?
I see no reason for there to be another one.

I do. There are, for one, no banned generals other than Braids on that one. There are definitely those who deserve to be banned, as per my example.

Also my friend plays an extremely streamlined Uril, The Miststalker deck and he never wins our multiplayer games, I certainly see no reason for banning him. Perhaps you intend this list for 1 on 1?

This was indeed started by looking at 1 on 1.

[raventime22]

Originally Posted by Syphon

I do. There are, for one, no banned generals other than Braids on that one. There are definitely those who deserve to be banned, as per my example.

Except all of your cards except for the generals (except Braids) and Timetwister are already on the banned list.

So do you actually have any new suggestions that have never been mentioned before?

[Syphon]

Originally Posted by raventime22

Except all of your cards except for the generals (except Braids) and Timetwister are already on the banned list.

So do you actually have any new suggestions that have never been mentioned before?

As I stated, this is a work in progress. I will propose more additions/deletions in due time.

[raventime22]

Originally Posted by Syphon

As I stated, this is a work in progress. I will propose more additions/deletions in due time.

Well, then could you have at least put some new stuff in your initial post other then parroting the existing banned list with the single caveat of banned generals, which most are actually not that bad.

Are you suggesting a seperate 1 v 1 list? Is this for both mutiplayer or duel?

Reading you previous responses I have a feeling you don't understand the concept of EDH.

Getting rid of old sets violates the principle of EDH as a format where people can play cards that they may never have a use for in regular Magic but are viable in EDH.

Seriously ban the Alpha Duals. Why? What infinite disgusting combo can one do with them. Is it price? What is so bad about them. You can only ever run one of each. In mono they're useless, in two colour you only have one, in three-colour you only have access to three. Five colour yes you have access to all ten but a five-colour mana base is already unstable enough as is.

Plus the targeted land destruction you dislike like Strip Mine and Wasteland and other stuff like Ruination can keep the supposed overpowered duals in check.

[falknir]

i think the first thing you shoud say is if you intend to make a multiplayer list or a 1vs1 list.

The multplayer list is probably already tuned! The 1vs1 is not official and needs some tweeking but it's a good base for now!

[raventime22]

Originally Posted by falknir

i think the first thing you shoud say is if you intend to make a multiplayer list or a 1vs1 list.

The multplayer list is probably already tuned! The 1vs1 is not official and needs some tweeking but it's a good base for now!

If it's 1 v 1 then Sol Ring should be on the list.

Still want to know why the Alpha duals are on the list since they don't provide crazy acceleration or anything broken and the lack of drawback is NOT a real reason.

[Surging Chaos]

I wouldn't ban Wasteland or Strip Mine. Instead, ban the real culprit for being able to create those kind of locks -- Crucible of Worlds.

I also don't think Uril is that bad of a problem, especially when Azami is far more powerful and dangerous.

[Zoil714]

Originally Posted by raventime22

Reading you previous responses I have a feeling you don't understand the concept of EDH.

Getting rid of old sets violates the principle of EDH as a format where people can play cards that they may never have a use for in regular Magic but are viable in EDH.

Gotta agree with Raventime on this one. It seems like you don't understand EDH as an "Eternal" format. Cards are not banned via inaccessibility or rarity, rather just power and brokenness.

Also, by the way you argue, it seems like your experience of EDH is primarily 1 v 1 rather than its designed multiplayer format. A big table will have answers to keep annoying generals like rofellos and Uril in check, but maybe there should be a 1v1 general banned list.

Also, Land destruction is 100% vital in an EDH format. Some Lands Just Need to Be Destroyed. I agree that recursive land destruction (Or fetching for that matter) off of crucible of worlds is broken, but hey, that's why the french banned it. Maybe we should adapt that list

The way it stands now, I think the current EDH banned list is fine. If I could choose, I would add 2 more cards to it: Crucible of Worlds because of recursive LD and Iona, Shield of Emeria, simply because she ends games in an un-fun manner. (I reanimated her once T4 against a mono-black deck and a Grixis deck. Needless to say, she deserves to be banned)

Last I heard, there was an update (albeit small) to the banned list coming sometime in march. Maybe it'll be soon?

[Makaro]

This thread just sounds like an excuse to rant about cards you don't like.

Wasteland and Strip Mine? Really? How else am I going to deal with Tolarian Academy - or do you want to ban all "broken" nonbasics too?

EDH can be a fun format - but I really hate the attitudes of some people who play it.

[Surging Chaos]

I don't think Crucible should be banned in the multiplayer list. People just don't run enough graveyard hate in general.

@ Zoil714: The update for the ban list should be coming really soon... like within the week.

[Blue Warlock]

I'd take a look at the banned list that already exists first and just post additions to it. Also, banning Wasteland/Stripmine is really silly without banning the cards that they need to be available to get rid of first. Such cards include, but are not limited to: Tolarian Academy , Academy Ruins , Maze of Ith , Kor Haven , Volraths Stronghold , Cabal Coffers

Also, I would rethink your position on Uril, he isn't even in the same league as the other 3. Especially because you know, you can just block him. If you are worried about him getting trample, well thats a 2 card combo involving a general, and a pretty bad one at that. So then you should probably get rid of every other general that has a bad/good 2 card combo, including Niv-Mizzet and a few others.

[Syphon]

Fine. Fixed. Happy? Geez. Early dual lands are now unbanned in this list, and Crucible has been banned.

Zoil, this is primarily for 1v1 on MWS, where availability is not an issue. Also, I have possibly played more multiplayer EDH than 1v1 EDH, so I have some experience in the field.

Warlock, how are we going to deal with Tolarian Academy, etc? I found that those cards are not as bad as Stripmine. Getting that much mana is not nearly as bad as being denied your mana.

Makaro, you don't have to agree with this list. You could be a bit more gracious about it, though.