MTG Salvation

I've never played EDH before, however, I help manage and regularly draft a cube. The formats seem at least slightly similar and so I'm obviously attracted to the ridiculousness available in the EDH format. Anyway, BGW and rock archetypes are probably some of my favorite, so I chose Teneb as my very first general. Can you EDH regulars help to give me some advice on this build? I've browsed the Teneb decks and the top 35 cards lists to get some ideas. Without further ado...

I've been a long time player of Teneb and he's definitely one of the funner generals. It's so hard to keep a Teneb player down. I like the overall tone of your list, but there are a few cards you can swap for efficiency and a few more you overlooked. I'm looking at the list from a multiplayer perspective since you didn't indicate one way or another. If you play primarily 1v1 I can't help too much beyond theory as I play almost strictly multiplayer.

First off, your mana base. The Shadowmoor filter lands are unbelievably good in Teneb, with all the double and triple mana costs in the deck. I'd suggest cutting Grand Coliseum, Gemstone Mine, and City of Brass for Wooded Bastion, Fetid Heath, and Twilight Mire. Also, being able to sacrifice your creatures at will can be a huge benefit, especially when Revillark is involved, so I would recommend adding High Market, Phyrexian Tower, and Miren, the Moaning Well. These lands give you cheap and easy sacrifice outlets without taking up a valuable spell slot. Treetop Village is an easy cut, and then I would start cutting either the vivids or the painlands, depending on which drawback you'd prefer to deal with.

In your creature base: Troll Ascetic, Chameleon Colossus, and to a lesser extent Exalted Angel, Spritmonger, and Baneslayer Angel are fairly weak. If you want pure beaters, I'd recommend Divinity of Pride, Akroma, Angel of Wrath, and Phantom Nishoba. They're all much larger, have more of an impact, and in the case of the Nishoba, able to be recurred with Reviellark. I don't know how your playgroup feels about Yosei, but he's pretty brutal by himself and when paired with Genesis+sac outlet.

One card you absolutely need is Acidic Slime. This creature is a house, especially when abused with Reviellark. (Reveillark is the best card in the deck. You have to have a really good reason to run a creature that isn't 'larkable.) Speaking of 'larkable creatures, you should include either Bone Shredder or Big Game Hunter as 'larkable spot removal (in addition to the Shriekmaw). Other good creatures are Necrotic Sliver and Harmonic Sliver. The Necrotic looks bad, but in reality is a 'larkable Angel of Despair. The Harmonic is a generic disenchant that happens to play well with the Necrotic. Duplicant is another good target for Reveillark. If you felt like adding in a combo to the deck you would need Mirror Entity and Saffi Eriksdotter, which would allow you to have any creature in your graveyard come into play an infinite amount of times, and it's easily set up by Survival of the Fittest.

Kitchen Finks and Loxodon Hierarch lose a lot of value in EDH since you start at 40 life. The Hiearch has additional utility in making your team sweeper proof but since everything comes back so easily anyway it's not a huge deal. Dauntless Escort is better at keeping your team alive and he's still not that great.

Oracle of Mul Daya needs to go in. He's pretty good by himself, and when you add SDT, Sylvan Library, or Scroll Rack into the mix he gets pretty busted.

As far as removal goes, I run 5 spot removal spells in my build: Putrefy, Mortify, Vindicate, Maelstrom Pulse, and Swords to Plowshares. Doom Blade is too narrow and would be better off as Condemn if you really want a sixth spot removal. Faith's Fetters is just an overcosted Vindicate and the four life doesn't matter that much in EDH (although I suppose it can lock a general in play). Crime/Punishment is better than Oblivion Stone, and Rout or Hallowed Burial are better than Day of Judgment. Decree of Pain deserves a slot. Death Cloud is pretty devastating, but requires that you play Life from the Loam as well (which interacts well with your fetches, Strip Mine, and Scroll Rack).

For your other spells, Animate Dead should become Necromancy. Garruk Wildspeaker acts mostly as an Explosive Vegetation that people can kill, so I eventually cut him for Kodama's Reach. Loxodon Warhammer could be replaced by either SoFaI or SoLaS. If you want to increase your basic land count by 3 or so, you could fit in Land Tax, which plays exceptionally well with Scroll Rack. Skullclamp wants to be in here. One card you might want to look at is Greater Good as an additional sacrifice outlet and a solid card draw.

I'm really not crazy about Oversold Cemetary or Nostalgic Dreams because between Genesis, Reveillark, and Teneb himself you should have plenty of recursion.

Luminarch Ascension is pretty brutal, especially when paired with Mirari's Wake. It does make you a huge target though so it's up to you whether you want to run it or not.

I hope that what I wrote wasn't to disjointed and that I've given you some useful advice. You've got a pretty good list, especially for a first-time EDH deck, and with a few tweaks you will be tearing up your local playgroup. Long live Pernicious Deed :D.

I agree with just about everything LittlestMorte said. Umezawa's Jitte is strangely not all that good in EDH. The kings of equipment are the 2 swords in this format and I would definitely play them over Jitte & Warhammer. You are also missing graveyard hate. I typically use 2 hate cards in each deck, you can try Primal Command, Nezumi Graverobber, Identity Crisis or Night Soil in these colors. Some are not very synergystic with your general but they are still very valuable to have available. I consider Austere Command to be one of the best sweepers in the format, much much better than Day of Judgment. For removal I would definitely remove Doomblade but personally I am a huge fan of Parallax Wave in this format, especially in decks with Eternal Witness and other ETB creatures. Aura Shards can be ruthless in this format, definitely something that should at least be considered. I am going under the assumption that this deck is for multiplayer, not sure if that is correct or not.

A ginormous thanks to both of you! Tonight will be my first ever EDH experience. I may be able to see what's weak and what doesn't really perform in order to add some of the suggested cards. Thanks again, guys!

I think you'll find that building a good EDH deck isn't all that different from maintaining a healthy cube. Both have rigid restrictions on what goes into them and while there are a lot of staples to any EDH deck, there's a lot of room to personalize it too, just like a cube. EDH is a much slower format though, due to the 40 life and the 100 card singleton deck, so when in doubt, choose the more powerful card instead of the cheaper one.

I look forward to hearing how your deck performs for you.

So all we could play tonight was 1v1, mostly because of everyone being preoccupied with FNM and no one willing to hang out after and rock EDH or the cube. Anyway... I played my Teneb deck against a Karn deck for several games and a couple games against a Sliver Overlord deck. Out of probably 10 games we got to play, I lost two. One was because of being stuck on three lands and one was because I couldn't find a mass removal of any sort or a way to tutor one up. One thing I did notice was how little Kitchen Finks does in this format. It's ok, but not great at all. Boneshredder is most likely better, but since I saw artifact creatures pretty much all night, it wouldn't have been much help tonight either. Another card that was underwhelming was Oversold Cemetery. It's probably better in other decks, but here it just did pretty much nothing. At the very least, that's two cards I'm looking to cut for something better. All in all, I'd say my first EDH experience was a good one and I'm totally psyched to tweak my Teneb deck and begin work on another deck with a different general.

I play Teneb as well, and you're welcome to look at my list if you'd like. I'll do my suggestions section by section, so here goes.

Lands: I recommend both Tainted Field and Tainted Wood, seeing as you'll usually have a swamp, and they essentially become duals. I also HIGHLY recommend Reflecting Pool and Vesuva (especially the former), because they can be so useful in fixing your mana. Temple of the False God is nice as well, as it gives you more mana when you need it.

Enchantments: I just have one here, and that's Privileged Position. It's a really underrated card, and it gives everything you have a bit of a buffer against the rest of your playgroup.

Instants: Just one again, Diabolic Edict. It's kind of nice to use when they have a pro-white/black creature out and you have no way to kill it. This one is really personal preference, but I have seen it work out for me so far.

Sorceries: I have a lot here. First, Kodama's Reach and Sylvan Scrying. Both of these thin out your deck, and with Scrying, you can hunt down any land you may need. Not as good late-game, but useful to see. Harmonize and Night's Whisper are nice for card advantage, and seeing as EDH causes players to have a bunch of lands, Beseech the Queen is a nice tutor effect. Diabolic Tutor is also nice, seeing as this is a slower format, and you can afford to have one more tutor effect. Restock is another great way to gain card advantage, and it helps you recur essential spells like Tooth and Nail or creatures like Reveillark. Rout is a nice board sweeper, and the instant speed clause is really nice. The only other suggestion I have is better if you play multiplayer, and that's Syphon Mind: it's discard for them and draw for you. Perfect.

Artifacts: First, is a piece of board sweeping: Nevinyrral's Disk. This thing is a house, and you can use it as part of politics, saying you'll pop it if people decide to start messing with you. Another piece of tech is Mind's Eye. Draw on every opponent's turn? Sounds good to me. I play with 4 mana artifacts: the appropriate signets in our colors, and Coalition Relic, all of which help me fix my mana pretty well and are always good. In terms of equipment, I recommend Sword of Light and Shadow, as it covers most forms of removal, and it gets creatures back to your hand. Sword of Fire and Ice is also nice, as it protects against burn and blue shenanigans, as well as giving you card advantage in the process. Lightning Greaves are nice against all disruption, and they allow things to swing out or use tap effects immediately, which is pretty convenient. Behemoth Sledge also gives lifelink and trample, which are both very good in this format.

Creatures: Saved the most for last. First, two creatures that are awesome in multiplayer: Mortivore and Terravore. These two can get huge, and are serious and cheap threats. Watch out for Tormod's Crypt and the like with these two. Next, a few creatures that Reveillark makes awesome. Phantom Nishoba is #1, followed by Doran, the Siege Tower. Both of these are efficient beaters that can keep coming back with Lark. Bone Shredder, Wispmare, and Vampire Nighthawk are all forms of disruption or card advantage that can be used multiple times with our white evoking friend. Fleshbag Marauder and Mournwhelk are both effective as well, but it takes Teneb to reanimate them, or any other effects. Eternal Dragon is the same thing, but he has a way to come back on his own, as well as a way to get back in the yard. Now, on to effective beaters. Archon of Justice and Avatar of Woe are both removal and solid creature choices. Divinity of Pride and Mystic Enforcer are conditionally huge creatures, and one has a nice bit of lifelink attached, while the other is pro-black.

So there are my suggestions, one Teneb player to another. I only suggested additions that I didn't see in your list. What to take out is entirely up to you. Hope this helps, and you can look at my list, which is in my signature, for inspiration as well.

Thanks for the feedback, IceBear! I plan on making some of the changes suggested by both you and LittlestMorte this coming week. I probably won't get a chance to play any more EDH until Friday, but that gives me time to work on this deck and a couple others I have ideas for. I'm really glad I took a stab at this format because now I'm hooked.

I'll probably take out Jitte and Warhammer in favor of the two swords. Loxodon Hierarch for Phantom Nishoba and Kitchen Finks for Boneshredder. I'll also probably cut Cemetery and Nostalgic Dreams for something too, but I'm still deciding on what. I'll post changes when I make them.

I was able to make some changes and work on my list a bit tonight. Thanks again guys for the feedback and advice.

OUT:

• Kitchen Finks
  
• Troll Ascetic
  
• Exalted Angel
  
• Chameleon Colossus
  
• Loxodon Hierarch
  
• Faith's Fetters
  
• Day of Judgment
  
• Umezawa's Jitte
  
• Loxodon Warhammer
  
• Oversold Cemetery
  
• Nostalgic Dreams
  
• Vivid Marsh
  
• Vivid Grove
  
• Vivid Meadow
  
• City of Brass
  
• Reflecting Pool
  
• Grand Coliseum
  
• Gemstone Mine
  
• Treetop Village
  

IN:

• Bone Shredder
  
• Archon of Justice
  
• Yosei, the Morning Star
  
• Duplicant
  
• Phantom Nishoba
  
• Austere Command
  
• Decree of Pain
  
• Sword of Fire and Ice
  
• Sword of Light and Shadow
  
• Night's Whisper
  
• Harmonize
  
• Fetid Heath
  
• Twilight Mire
  
• Wooded Bastion
  
• Phyrexian Tower
  
• High Market
  
• Miren, the Moaning Well
  
• Vesuva
  
• Temple of the False God
  

And also, I realized that I was playing three too many cards. So I also cut Garruk Wildspeaker, Spiritmonger, and Animate Dead. I've edited the OP to reflect the changes.

I'm hoping I get to play the latest incarnation of this deck on Friday.

Now that's what I call an update. A+ sir.

Hey Calibretto,
I see, like me, you made the jump from cube to EDH. It's great fun (although cube remains my first love). I was going to build a Teneb deck, but I built Savra instead. I still love Teneb as a general.

It pains me to see Spiritmonger and Garruk get cut. I prefer them both to Night's Whisper and Doom Blade in this format. However, I'm not sure your deck can abuse Garruk the way a token deck can, so it's probably an OK cut. Your creature suite is really solid. The only one I can think to add is Acidic Slime.

I love Condemn in this format to tuck a pesky general away for a good long time. I'd certainly run it over Doom Blade.

Cheers,
rant

Quote from rantipole

Hey Calibretto,
I see, like me, you made the jump from cube to EDH. It's great fun (although cube remains my first love). I was going to build a Teneb deck, but I built Savra instead. I still love Teneb as a general.

It pains me to see Spiritmonger and Garruk get cut. I prefer them both to Night's Whisper and Doom Blade in this format. However, I'm not sure your deck can abuse Garruk the way a token deck can, so it's probably an OK cut. Your creature suite is really solid. The only one I can think to add is Acidic Slime.

I love Condemn in this format to tuck a pesky general away for a good long time. I'd certainly run it over Doom Blade.

Cheers,
rant

Yeah, I'm loving it so far. Cube is definitely still my first love, but EDH is becoming a close second really quickly.

It hurt me to cut 'Monger and Garruk because of how awesome they are in cube, but they were surprisingly weak in this deck. I agree on Condemn and Acidic Slime. I just ran out of both of those cards (I don't buy packs and really only ever buy singles for the cube). As soon as I get them they are going in (probably this Friday from my friend). What would you guys recommend I cut to get Acidic Slime in?

I run out of certain cards all the time. I stock up on certain staples whenever I get a chance (I recently bought a lot of 12 Indrik Stomphowlers off of ebay).

I'd probably cut Doom Blade for the Slime. One-for-one removal isn't that great in EDH unless it is really versatile (Vindicate, Putrefy) or exiles or otherwise permanently deals with the creature (Swords to Plowshares, Condemn). Slime removes a troublesome permanent and leaves a powerful creature behind, making it much better than Doom Blade, IMO.

Cheers,
rant

Quote from rantipole

Slime removes a troublesome permanent and leaves a powerful creature behind, making it much better than Doom Blade, IMO.

Cheers,
rant

Agreed, but Condemn is most likely going in for Doom Blade.

I'd cut Regrowth, Night's Whisper, or Elsepth. Regrowth is kind of unnecessary with all the other better recursion. The +1 CA from Night's Whisper is really unexciting in a multiplayer format, and Elsepth's two +1 abilities are largely irrelevant in multiplayer.

If you want a card draw spell in Night's Whisper's slot, try out Syphon Mind, especially if you have a large play group. Even with just 3 other people it's a Harmonize and it scales well from there.

I'm thinking that we'll mostly be playing 1v1, so cards like Syphon Mind won't be quite as broken as they would be in multiplayer. I think either Elspeth or Regrowth seem like the best choices for the Slime.