GP Philly and Its Effect on Legacy

[CynicalSquirrel]

By: CynicalSquirrel

Legacy players have awaited the arrival of GP Philly for months, ever since Wizards made the surprising announcement on their main page that Legacy, the least played of the four major formats, was going to get its very own Grand Prix. After this, months of rigorous playtesting and trashtalking ensued. Would the pros break the format that has unrestricted mana accelerators like Chrome Mox, Lion's Eye Diamond, and Lotus Petal? Could anything stop the big three of Goblins, Landstill, and Solidarity? Are there any new archetypes that could bust out and surprise everybody? All of these questions were answered on the weekend that every player or follower of Legacy player was waiting for.

So for two long, painful days, Legacy players battled and fought through 14 tough rounds of the constant variety and strangeness that only Legacy tournaments can bring. There were turn one kills, there were Twincasted Fact or Fictions, and there were old school decks like Suicide Black and Secret Force looming at the higher tables. Finally we came up with a top eight of two Vial Goblins, three Gro variants, a Gamekeeper/Salvagers combo deck, a R/W Rift deck, and Chris Pikula's WB deck, surprising everybody there.

Vial Goblins Jonathan Sonne PT Philadelphia 1st Place
6 Mountain 4 Bloodstained Mire 4 Wooded Foothills 4 Wasteland 4 Rishadan Port 4 Goblin Lackey 4 Mogg Fanatic 4 Goblin Piledriver 4 Goblin Matron 4 Goblin Warchief 4 Gempalm Incinerator 4 Goblin Ringleader 3 Siege-Gang Commander 1 Goblin Sharpshooter 1 Goblin Tinkerer 1 Skirk Prospector	4 Pyrokinesis 4 AEther Vial	Sideboard: 4 Pithing Needle 1 Siege-Gang Commander 2 Patron of the Akki 1 Goblin Tinkerer 3 Price of Progress

So, predictably, Goblins won Grand Prix Philly. I wish I could say I am surprised, but I am not, and the Legacy population really isn't either. Important questions about Goblins coming into the GP that have been answered:

So is Vial Goblins the best deck in the format?

It is, without a shadow of a doubt. Vial Goblins made up 1/4th of the decks at Grand Prix Philadelphia, a whopping number considering just how many fairly viable archetypes there are. It also put two players in the top eight, and of course won the whole thing.

What makes it so dominating in this format?

It mostly comes down to the deck's lack of high priced cards. Most builds don't even run dual lands, and the Goblins are cheap and fairly easy to come by. Added to the fact that a lot of Extended players like to get into the Legacy format, and don't even really have to build a new deck (just add Aether Vials and Goblin Lackeys) and it's no shock that this deck shows up in such huge numbers. The deck itself wins because of its card advantage engine, featuring Aether Vial and Goblin Ringleader, which might be the two most broken cards in the format.

Is there any new tech in Goblins?

Not a whole lot. Of course, if you weren't running Wasteland and Rishadan Port, you really should. They increase the Landstill matchup by a large percentage, and also are good against other decks. There's also the conspicuous Patron of the Akki in the sideboard, which he used to fend off a turn one Engineered Plague in the deciding game against Chris Pikula. Patron does look nice because of how big it is, but I'm not quite sold on it being a must-of in sideboards. The fact that it's a Spirit and therefore is no good with Ringleader or Matron is a pretty big disadvantage to it in my opinion. More tech seen in some decks was splashing white for the obvious Swords to Plowshares and Disenchant, but also Armageddon. Having Armageddon is a great idea for Goblins; they can play stuff for free with Vial while their opponent playing MWC or some other control deck flounders.

Does anything need to be done about Goblins?

I think so. So far Wizards has been content with the Legacy metagame, but it's getting to the point now where Goblins is dominating the numbers of every tournament. Wizards should definitely not outright destroy Goblins much like
they did with Affinity in Type Two, but banning one or both Goblin Ringleader and AEther Vial which really break the deck would help make it more even with the rest of the field, and also make other aggro decks more playable. In a format without rotating and a deck like Goblins that's cheap and effective, the format could get very stagnant. People have thrown tons of hate at Goblins, and it just doesn't seem to work.

B/W Deadguy Ale Chris Pikula GP Philadelphia 2nd place
4 Wasteland 4 Bloodstained Mire 1 Tainted Field 4 Scrubland 10 Swamp 4 Dark Confidant 4 Hypnotic Specter 3 Nantuko Shade 2 Gerrard's Verdict 4 Duress 4 Hymn to Tourach 4 Vindicate 4 Sinkhole 4 Dark Ritual 2 Engineered Plague 2 Cursed Scroll		Sideboard: 2 Engineered Plague 4 Withered Wretch 2 Darkblast 2 Swords to Plowshares 3 Pithing Needle 2 Phyrexian Negator

So this is the deck that was really the talk of the tournament. After months without playing competitive magic, Chris Pikula showed up and got second place. There's really one question on everyone's mind, so I'll just address that.

Is this deck really that good?

Not really. Not to discount any of Pikula's deckbuilding, or try to sound like an arrogant jerk because he did great with a deck that most people hadn't even thought of, but I think this was mostly the case of a player with immense playskill outplaying people and making up for a deck that wasn't as good as the rest of the field. Pikula even admitted he had barely tested, and just wanted to have fun, which he certainly did. The deck is still good, don't get me wrong, and it can definitely win your local tourneys. I just don't think it's going to show up enough to make it to tier 1 or 1.5 status.

R/W Rift Pasquale Rugierro Top 8 GP Philadelphia
2 Plateau 7 Mountain 9 Plains 4 Secluded Steppe 4 Forgotten Cave 4 Eternal Dragon 4 Swords to Plowshares 2 Rune of Protection: Red 3 Humility 3 Abeyance 2 Akroma's Vengeance 3 Renewed Faith 3 Decree of Justice 2 Disenchant 2 Pyroclasm 3 Slice and Dice 3 Lightning Rift Sideboard: 2 Boil 2 Pyroblast 2 Red Elemental Blast 3 Rule of Law 2 Disenchant 2 Pyroclasm 1 Abeyance 1 Pulse of the Fields

This deck was another surprise. It has been talked about before, but most people didn't think it fit much into the metagame with the assumed abundance of Solidarity, which really hurts it.

Is this deck really that good?

Sort of. I know that's a stupid answer coming from an article like this, but this deck really relies on a metagame. If a metagame is full of a lot of creature decks, this obviously wins. With maindeck Rune of Protection: Red against Goblins, plus Humility, Slice and Dice, and an abundance of other removal, this deck destroys almost any aggro strategy. This deck got top 8 because the GP was just a perfect metagame for it. Solidarity was supposed to be the bad matchup, but didn't even make the top 8, or even really show up in huge numbers. With a lot of people playing random creature decks, R/W Rift thrived and this is the result of that.

Salvagers Game Paul Serignese Top 8 GP Philadelphia
1 Savannah 1 Scrubland 1 Bayou 1 Bloodstained Mire 2 Polluted Delta 3 Windswept Heath 1 Plains 3 Snow-Covered Swamp 2 Snow-Covered Forest 2 Forest 2 Swamp 2 Auriok Salvagers 3 Gamekeeper 4 Lion's Eye Diamond 4 Chromatic Sphere 1 Pyrite Spellbomb 4 Dark Ritual 4 Duress 4 Cabal Therapy 4 Innocent Blood 4 Living Wish 4 Tainted Pact 2 Night's Whisper 1 Krosan Reclamation	1 Viridian Zealot 1 City of Brass 2 Darksteel Colossus 1 Ray of Revelation 4 Tsunami 1 Kjeldoran Dead 1 Trinket Mage 1 Gamekeeper 1 Auriok Salvagers 1 Kagemaro, First to Suffer 1 Uktabi Orangutan

Is THIS really that good?

I think so. This deck was another pretty big surprise. The original Game deck revolved around Gamekeeper to get Darksteel Colossus and simply beat down for the win, along with removing your opponent's resources with a huge amount of discard. This one goes for a more combo approach by getting the instant kill of Auriok Salvagers and Lion's Eye Diamond with Pyrite Spellbomb to finish them off. This deck could be a pretty big contender; people have been doing well with regular versions of The Game already and this seems to be a better win condition. With a disappointing performance by Solidarity, this could become the format's defining combo deck if people play it enough.

Not Quite Gro Pat McGregor Top 8 GP Philadelphia
4 Polluted Delta 4 Flooded Strand 4 Volcanic Island 4 Tropical Island 2 Island 4 Nimble Mongoose 4 Werebear 2 Fledgling Dragon 4 Daze 4 Fire//Ice 4 Force of Will 4 Counterspell 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Mental Note 4 Serum Visions 4 Brainstorm		Sideboard: 4 Pyroclasm 3 Winter Orb 2 Red Elemental Blast 3 Naturalize 2 Tormod's Crypt 1 Pyroclasm

Not Quite Gro Lam Pham Top 8 Grand Prix Philadelphia
4 Flooded Strand 1 Forest 1 Plains 2 Island 3 Tundra 4 Tropical Island 3 Windswept Heath 3 Meddling Mage 4 Nimble Mongoose 4 Werebear 2 Mystic Enforcer	4 Serum Visions 4 Brainstorm 3 Predict 2 Counterspell 4 Daze 4 Force of Will 4 Swords to Plowshares 4 Accumulated Knowledge	Sideboard: 1 Meddling Mage 2 Naturalize 2 Sphere of Law 1 Seal of Cleansing 2 Blue Elemental Blast 2 Hydroblast 2 Misdirection 2 Pithing Needle 1 Disenchant

These are two of the three Gro decks that made top eight. One features the red splash, and one just goes U/G/W. I won't go into the splashes since they're metagame related, but I'll definitely talk about the Gro/Threshold archetype as a whole.

Is this tier one now?

Yes. With three players finishing in the top eight with similar builds of the deck, I think it's safe to say that Not Quite Gro is a legitimate tier one deck. The three top eights here plus the win it got at another major Legacy event called Big Arse II have proven that this deck isn't a fluke, and is a major contender in this format. It has a strong draw engine, good disruption with Meddling Mage, and also a fairly solid counter base to fight off threats. With a dissapointing performance by Landstill with zero top eights, Not Quite Gro might have bumped it in the food chain and become the format's defining control deck.

So that's the top eight in a nutshell, although there were many more metagame developments that happened than just that. Possibly the biggest story of the weekend were the decks that didn't finish in the top eight.

What happened to Landstill?

The complete lack of Landstill in the top eight was a really big shock to some, but not as surprising to others. Landstill has been openly criticized recently of being a bad control deck with a conditional draw engine, and I think some of those criticisms finally caught up to the deck. The Not Quite Gro decks that made the top eight have better draw engines than Landstill, along with better mana bases and better disruption with Meddling Mage. Combine that and the fact that a quarter of the decks were Goblins running around with Wasteland and Rishadan Port, and it appears from a distance that Landstill was hated out of the top eight at Grand Prix Philadelphia. With Not Quite Gro looking like the better deck right now, Landstill could be completely modified, or could lose its tier one status.

What happened to Solidarity?

This one is really puzzling to me. Solidarity came in as a legitimate top tier deck and the best combo deck in the format. Many people considered it to be the best deck. Instead Solidarity didn't make the top eight at all. I don't really know what could have caused this, other than some decks just doing better. There's also the scarcity of Reset, one of the vital cards in the deck. I know that a Solidarity player finished ninth, so the deck is definitely not dead. I think this was just a bad day for Solidarity, and one that probably won't affect it's place on the tiers.

Where was Tog?

A lot of the discussion prior to the Grand Prix was Psychatog decks and Life from the Loam tearing up the top eight. This didn't happen. I think this really only has to do with people not having time to prepare enough with Ravnica being released so soon before the Grand Prix. You'll definitely be hearing from Life from the Loam and its toothy friend soon enough, probably at Grand Prix Lille in Europe.

Where were all of the pros and their savage turn one kill decks?

Some certain pro players did a lot of trash talking prior to this event about how people dedicated to the Legacy format simply hadn't thought it through enough, and there was a huge diamond in the rough laying in the format. However, the only top eight deck that people hadn't really heard of was Pikula's deck. Everything else had at least been discussed. This probably had more to do with the pros just not caring as much about the format. It seemed many of them played just to use some of their older cards. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't think the professional players walked the walk in this event.

Is Survival dead?

It would definitely appear so, from a distance. The issue of Survival is one of the most confusing ones in recent memory. Early on in the format people were discussing banning Survival, and now it seems to be completely gone from the format. What gives? I think it's more the cost of Survival decks money wise, and the playskill it takes to play them. A Survival deck with a good pilot can definitely win tourneys, but right now it appears that there aren't any of those people left. If Survival decks cost as much money as Vial Goblins does, it would be overrunning the format like people thought. That's not the case though, and until it is or a key piece of Vial Goblins is banned, I don't see Survival doing a whole lot in major tournaments.

Where was that Flame Vault deck I kept hearing about?

Another big piece of hype going around was the Flame Fusillade/Time Vault combo. There were really two factors that hurt this deck. The first being that it's a pretty expensive deck, simply because Time Vaults are currently going for well over fifty bucks apiece. A lot of players just weren't willing to shell out that much money for a deck that hadn't gotten a whole lot of testing. Second was that the deck was really overhyped to begin with. The combo itself isn't really any faster than Solidarity, and it doesn't have the ability to fight through hate like Solidarity does. It does have a strong counter base, but really the deck isn't a whole lot different from Trix, which is a deck that has struggled in Legacy for quite some time now.

So what now?

The biggest impact of the tournament was probably Chris Pikula's deck. Not really because of the archetype, but because he showed that a mostly black based deck can do well in a major Legacy tournament. Forever Black has been considered the worst color in Legacy, despite powerhouse cards like Hymn to Tourach and Duress. Swords to Plowshares was a white card that was better than any of Black's removal, and a lot of the creatures were too conditional. However, with the addition of Dark Confidant along with the possibility of Engineered Plague, Black is not going to be the joke it used to be in Legacy.

This also means bad news for some decks, namely Solidarity. Solidarity has been cruising in a format where Black barely existed, but those times are changing. Solidarity is well known for its vulnerability to discard and resource denial strategies, and with Pikula's deck the chain reaction of people trying out Black decks and seeing they're not so bad after all could result in a chain reaction that results in the unceremonious death of Solidarity. Not only that, but the Salvagers Game deck in the top eight is also mostly black based, and runs the same cards that Solidarity hates. If these two catch on, the results could be interesting.

The other thing is possible sideboard cards. With Gro appearing to be one of the top decks in the format now, and discussion going around everywhere about Dredge-a-Tog, Legacy sideboards are going to look much like they did before the list separations when Worldgorger Dragon reigned supreme. In other words, expect a lot of graveyard hate, including Phyrexian Furnace and Tormod's Crypt. With these two powerful cards soon to become sideboard staples, Gro is really going to be tested in the coming months.

Well, that does it for me. Hope this helped you understand what to make of the results of GP Philly. Thanks to the editors, and iloveatogs for the banner.

[bateleur]

Interesting reading.

I don't play Legacy myself, but I definitely get the impression where Solidarity is concerned that the lack of numbers playing the deck was the main reason for the lack of T8 presence. That in turn was probably down to the relative difficulty of obtaining the cards. Also, the deck's known for being hard to play well so some players may have found it underperforming during testing.

[Puzzle]

I think your discounting of Pikula's deck is a bit light.
When saying Goblins was the best deck because it showed up in 25% of the deck and ended up winning is not quite correct either to me : only 1 made Top8, even if he won.
Compare the average results to Homebrew, for example, or Gro, for a wider span . The average performance of Goblins is not so good, it's more the numbers of decks that helped it, imho.

Yeah, I'm a Pikula fan because :
- he's a nice guy, as far as I've seen.
- he's from my generation.

Nice article, else.

[Noman Peopled]

I don't agree that something has to be done about Goblins. It's not like nothing else doesn't have a chance. If anything, I think the problem is the lack of combo that can race Goblins or deal with it through disruption reliable enough. So actually, one solution to the problem might be to unban one of the weaker engine cards (not Metalworker, though).
I also think that without Rishadan Port, blue-based control decks may well deal with Goblins. Hell, it can even deal with them using Tsabo's Web, Response, or even freakin' BtB. Also, many players just cling to the typical build of control, using skeletons from back when the metagame was Landstill and Dragon. As Rift and Wombat show, it's not even necessary to stay blue.
A different kind of Survival Skeleton, UB, BW, it's all out there. And there are decks that just can beat Goblins - or the T8 would look quite different. Heck, I've been toying with freakin' Stupid Green. It has a lotta Walls, mana, and Spike Weaver.
If anything, I think Port and Vial is what makes Goblins so resilient, especially against blue-based control but also combo that otherwise would be an autoloss.

Sure, Goblins warp the meta a bit stronger than anything else, but that's what good decks do. And it's not like you have to win turn two to win against it. In fact, I think, Goblins is largely responsible for the spectral character of Legacy right now, making blue look a bit worse in comparison to black and white.

As for Survival, I think people have kinda given up on that for some reason, even with there being a large array of possibilities ... Recurring Nightmare is the same, but has more combo potential.
Life from the Loam will make an impact. I'm even considering not trading off my Assaults ... as if anyone needed them.
Lim-Dul's Vault is vastly underused, imo; it can fetch two combo-pieces, what's wrong with that? You don't even have to show them to your Predict-wielding opponent. Same goes for Doomsday which I daresay has enough fast mana in Legacy.

Currently I'm working on a series of articles about obscure cards in Legacy. I was thinking about releasing it in German (since it pays in boosters) but if enough people express interest (PM, email, whatever), I'll consider translating it. Some show at least some promise. Others I never understood why they weren't played until I discussed them on paper.

[CynicalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by Puzzle

I think your discounting of Pikula's deck is a bit light.
When saying Goblins was the best deck because it showed up in 25% of the deck and ended up winning is not quite correct either to me : only 1 made Top8, even if he won.
Compare the average results to Homebrew, for example, or Gro, for a wider span . The average performance of Goblins is not so good, it's more the numbers of decks that helped it, imho.

Yeah, I'm a Pikula fan because :
- he's a nice guy, as far as I've seen.
- he's from my generation.

Nice article, else.

Yeah, if I could rewrite that part of the article I could. I kind of came off as saying that his deck sucks and he got lucky, which isn't really what I intended to do. It's a strong deck, I just don't see it becoming a tier one and consistantly doing well in these kinds of tourneys. Pikula's playskill had a lot to do with it getting this far.

And there were actually two Goblins in the top eight. I only posted one of them from it though because the lists are almost the same.

I don't agree that something has to be done about Goblins. It's not like nothing else doesn't have a chance. If anything, I think the problem is the lack of combo that can race Goblins or deal with it through disruption reliable enough. So actually, one solution to the problem might be to unban one of the weaker engine cards (not Metalworker, though).
I also think that without Rishadan Port, blue-based control decks may well deal with Goblins. Hell, it can even deal with them using Tsabo's Web, Response, or even freakin' BtB. Also, many players just cling to the typical build of control, using skeletons from back when the metagame was Landstill and Dragon. As Rift and Wombat show, it's not even necessary to stay blue.
A different kind of Survival Skeleton, UB, BW, it's all out there. And there are decks that just can beat Goblins - or the T8 would look quite different. Heck, I've been toying with freakin' Stupid Green. It has a lotta Walls, mana, and Spike Weaver.
If anything, I think Port and Vial is what makes Goblins so resilient, especially against blue-based control but also combo that otherwise would be an autoloss.

Very good points.

My reasoning on something having to be done about Goblins is that it is EVERYWHERE. It is the most played deck at every single tourney by a fairly wide margin. And the results it posts are still pretty solid. There were a lot of Goblin decks that made it to day two. The lack of skill involved also does something. I just think in a format with no rotations, eventually Goblins is going to have to be weakened so other aggro decks can stand a chance in the format.

[Chimpanzee]

The reason Goblins is everywhere is that it is probably the easiest competitive deck to build. There are no extremely expensive or hard to find cards in the typical build and many people still have a skeleton of it already from when they played it in type 2 or extended.

[gamermk]

What makes it so dominating in this format?

It mostly comes down to the deck's lack of high priced cards.

You are answering the wrong question here. What makes it so dominating is cards like Goblin Lackey, Aether Vial, and Rishadan Port. The fact that the deck can be made for less cost than other tier 1 builds answers the question of why it was the most prevelant deck in the field.

Which brings me to...

So is Vial Goblins the best deck in the format?

It is, without a shadow of a doubt. Vial Goblins made up 1/4th of the decks at Grand Prix Philadelphia, a whopping number considering just how many fairly viable archetypes there are. It also put two players in the top eight, and of course won the whole thing.

Saying that goblins is the best deck "without a shadow of a doubt" is a bold statement and I don't think you have the right evidence to make this claim yet. (I say yet.)

Goblins made up a huge 25% of the decks at GP Philly and then made up 25% of the top 8. This really just tells us that the deck is tier 1.

Now if the numbers were say 10% of the field played it and 25% of top 8 was goblins or 25% played it and 50% of top 8 was goblins then maybe you can make your claim. But with equal numbers all you are doing is proving that its good. Nothing more.

I just think in a format with no rotations, eventually Goblins is going to have to be weakened so other aggro decks can stand a chance in the format.

No worries. If another aggro deck can be found to have better matchups than goblins against control and combo then it will simply skew its sideboard to deal with goblins better.

I think the most important thing to take away from the GP is not to fear goblins, but to simply be ready for them (engineered plague my friends) because they are going to remain a popular choice due to price, power, and easy-of-play.

And to all you dirty goblin players, be afraid for next time we meet, we'll be ready.

[CynicalSquirrel]

Keep in mind that people expected Goblins to be the best deck coming in, and I would say it proved itself. There isn't a deck that has come close to putting up the consistant numbers Goblins has, as far as making top eights, seeing play in large numbers, and fighting through various kinds of hate. Goblins is definitely the best deck in the format, because I don't see any other decks that can make the claim. Sure, Gro did really well, but this is really it's first breakout tournament. When Gro starts fighting through tons of graveyard hate, and still do well in these kinds of tourneys, it will be the best deck in the format. Landstill did terrible in this event, and is hardly even tier one anymore. Ditto for Solidarity. What other deck is there that can claim that its better than Goblins?

[gamermk]

What other deck is there that can claim that its better than Goblins?

In a word, none.

I don't disagree with you that it is a strong choice, but there just isn't enough evidence yet about other decks in order to determine the best deck.

Basically, its just one big horserace. Goblins is in the lead and its the favourite, but the race is far from over.

[Lunar]

The comments on the Pros not really doing uber well due to a lazy approach to the event seems pretty accurate to me...In a Vintage event not too long ago (star city games rochester the last time I believe) there were a number of pros playing including one Zvi "bigmouth" Mowshiwitz who claimed that the format was ripe for the picking and that the Vintage players just really didnt know what was going on...

This turned out to be pretty much the opposite in the end however...Zvi ended up pretty far down the list in the final standings, as did a number of the other pros at the event...

certainly the pros can and will place well in these events, but they generally are overestimating their opinion of themselves a lot of the time...I think the pros WILL eventually start dominating Legacy if the format continues to do well and wizards continues to support it...but it was no suprise to me that the format didnt end up broken into little bits by them...

Good article...and good to point out that Tog will most likely show up in large numbers at the GP in europe....

oh and solidarity wont do good in the format ever unless high quality players pick it up and use it...the deck is too difficult for every day run of the mill joe schmoes to pilot through something like a 14 round tournament...

EDIT:

@ gamerk

Goblins IS the best deck in the format...although the "not quite gro" decks are pretty hot right now too...

but there is no denying that Goblins is the deck to beat in the format...

[CynicalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by gamermk

In a word, none.

I don't disagree with you that it is a strong choice, but there just isn't enough evidence yet about other decks in order to determine the best deck.

Basically, its just one big horserace. Goblins is in the lead, but the race is far from over.

Yeah, definitely. But as of now, with the tournament statistics we have, Goblins is definitely number one.

Once GP Lille comes in we'll have a much clearer view of the format (Although I hear European metas are entirely different from North American ones). Most of this article is basically assumptions anyways, but Goblins has been performing well since the format's list got changed, and has continually gotten better despite Landstill MDing 4 Wraths, Mono White Control becoming a legitimate deck, and Angel Stompy made almost entirely to destroy it.

[Noman Peopled]

As was said, Goblins had to fight through a lot of hate.
I was really surprised how well 3cT/NQG did. Pleasently so, as I have almost all cards to build one.

The real issue with Goblins is not that it's good, it's how it warps the metagame (though, as i said, it helps keeping it varied by making blue worse). If you're battling Goblins you'd damn better make sure all you do in your first three turns is aim to win during your fourth at the latest or keep those Goblins down. A wall won't help all too much. Of course, this is what aggro is designed to do ... still, Goblins is capable to keep that pace up well into the late game and not overextend. Rishadan Port helps immensely with the combo matchup.
I'm trying to brainstorm up a deck that beats goblins as a concept, not because it's filled with hate that stuns it in other matchups. Oh yeah, running on little mana too ... damn those Ports! With Wastelands I have no bigger problems ...

[ThoseBlueDudes]

The only glaring flaw with the article is the fact the author pointed out goblin ringleader as part of the problem.

The ringleader is not nearly as problematic as the aether vial which makes goblins almost invulnerable to conventional control decks as well as giving them undue recovery speed even after a boardwipe such as wrath and even akroma's vengeance.

If the aethervial didn't exist, then goblins would be nowhere as powerful as it is now in the legacy. In fact, aether vial is THE card that MAKES goblins. To ban aether vial is saying "good bye goblins" in type 1.5.

[Sapphire Tri]

Originally Posted by ThoseBlueDudes

The only glaring flaw with the article is the fact the author pointed out goblin ringleader as part of the problem.

The ringleader is not nearly as problematic as the aether vial which makes goblins almost invulnerable to conventional control decks as well as giving them undue recovery speed even after a boardwipe such as wrath and even akroma's vengeance.

If the aethervial didn't exist, then goblins would be nowhere as powerful as it is now in the legacy. In fact, aether vial is THE card that MAKES goblins. To ban aether vial is saying "good bye goblins" in type 1.5.

Incorrect.

Goblins has always been a problem. Vial just make control(WHICH in the form of NQG made 3 showings.) have a harder match up. The ability to goblins refilling there hand full of threats is the worse thing control sees.

Banning vial is not an answer. We still have another GP in a month that is legacy so before we start yelling OMFG this CARD is SO BA-RO-KEN we should watch and see the damage after the next one. If goblins wins again then there may be an issue...I still think some cards should be unbanned to help fight the problems that may come up....

[Belgareth]

Totally agree Unbannings are the answer, not more bannings.