360 Cards - 50 per color, 5 of each 2-color combination (at least one of which is hybrid), 1 of each Alara shard, 30 Colorless, 25 Land. 269/339 foil/textless!
No qualms about power level.
If it was uncommon or common at any point, it's fair game.
Cycles don't need to be maintained through colors.
Cards with activated abilities that are non-casting colors are considered monocolor (i.e. Esper Battlemage is blue). As a result, things like Court Hussar aren't here, as you wouldn't want to cast that for 2U, and that would be a way of cheating more cards into the U/W section. The battlemages, on the other hand, provide options for colors (hybrid, if you would?) while still being playable without the secondary colors. tl;dr: Options are ok, mandatory costs aren't
Skill level is assumed to be much better than the average drafter.
Un-set cards aren't necessarily excluded, but no half-power/toughness, or anything that would be difficult to enforce inside or outside of that set. Use common sense. Currently, there are none, but I am open to getting more support behind them, as that's a dividing issue between me and the friend I build this cube with.
A handful of proxies do exist, whether they are more expensive cards that we don't plan to buy, or cards that are just in other places. Bar 2-3 exceptions, all the cards in the cube are owned, be it in standard, extended, EDH or other casual decks.
M11 and Scars of Mirrodin aren't added yet.
So, here it is, sorted by color, type (spell/creature) and mana cost. If I had a camera to use, I would
While msot of your list looks solid, you do tend to a lot more slower cards that could be replaced by more efficient cards, but it's upto preference of how you want your cube to play out.
Klug's thread has alot of good discussion concerning ROE, and I posted the list of cards I'm using from it in his thread along with my reasoning for them.
I just have to ask, do you actually have a library of alexandria & imperial recruiter?
also I didn't realize blind with anger existed, I think I'm going to try and find a spot for it (I cut out grab the reins because it doesn't untap the creature).
While msot of your list looks solid, you do tend to a lot more slower cards that could be replaced by more efficient cards, but it's upto preference of how you want your cube to play out.
Klug's thread has alot of good discussion concerning ROE, and I posted the list of cards I'm using from it in his thread along with my reasoning for them.
I just have to ask, do you actually have a library of alexandria & imperial recruiter?
also I didn't realize blind with anger existed, I think I'm going to try and find a spot for it (I cut out grab the reins because it doesn't untap the creature).
I've glanced at Klug's thread briefly, I'll have to sit down and take a good read of it soon. No, we don't have a Library or Recruiter
And could you give some more specific examples of the slower cards? As it is right now, control tends to get the short end of the stick, although it's not unfeasible by any means.
Blind with Anger is a beating, to be sure. Not sure why some people that draft the cube dislike it, I find it's a beast of a card at instant for 4 mana. I remember blowing people to shreds with it back in Kamigawa block draft
Even in a small cube, I would run more mana fixing lands eg. Shards Tri-lands, Zendikar refuges etc.
Oxidize is on the list of things to cut, but Gush has been performing well for us. Compulsive Research has been discussed numerous times, FWIW. Any other recommendations on the weaker blue spells?
How do you suggest we expand the cube to try and add more lands in? With a couple of exceptions (blue/black mainly), the gold section is too small, if anything, and we already cut the Ravnica artifacts. To be fair, though, I can easily picture another 10 lands that could go in and see some serious usage.
I would say to cut:
[card]
Spell Snare [/card] (it isn't as good in cube as it is in Legacy constructed, particularly compared to the other counterspells I listed)
Jilt (not as good as other bounce spells i.e. snap, into the roil, and really should be in the multicolour section anyway)
Lethargy Trap (really just not a strong card. It is basically a conditional fog most of the time)
Exclude (seems strong, but I think Dismiss, Complicate, or any of the other counters I suggested are better)
I don't think your multicolour section would be considered 'small'. Many cubes significantly bigger than yours only run 4 cards per colour combo.
I've glanced at Klug's thread briefly, I'll have to sit down and take a good read of it soon. No, we don't have a Library or Recruiter
And could you give some more specific examples of the slower cards? As it is right now, control tends to get the short end of the stick, although it's not unfeasible by any means.
Blind with Anger is a beating, to be sure. Not sure why some people that draft the cube dislike it, I find it's a beast of a card at haste for 4 mana. I remember blowing people to shreds with it back in Kamigawa block draft
Oxidize is on the list of things to cut, but Gush has been performing well for us. Compulsive Research has been discussed numerous times, FWIW. Any other recommendations on the weaker blue spells?
How do you suggest we expand the cube to try and add more lands in? With a couple of exceptions (blue/black mainly), the gold section is too small, if anything, and we already cut the Ravnica artifacts. To be fair, though, I can easily picture another 10 lands that could go in and see some serious usage.
I'll write up a list of cards tomorrow while I'm sitting bored at work
I like blind with anger (ray of command) for the fact it can be a normal threaten, but most importantly it can be an awesome combat trick to take your opponent's attackers and run them into each other. (which you can't do with grab the reins unless they have vigilance).
I definately wouldn't cut gush, even in limited formats like cube, it's still a complete bomb. I do think compulsive research is a necessary blue card though.
If you want another list to compare to I also have a commons/uncommons cube thread up, and I just updated it for ROE.
I would say to cut:
[card]
Spell Snare [/card] (it isn't as good in cube as it is in Legacy constructed, particularly compared to the other counterspells I listed)
Jilt (not as good as other bounce spells i.e. snap, into the roil, and really should be in the multicolour section anyway)
Lethargy Trap (really just not a strong card. It is basically a conditional fog most of the time)
Exclude (seems strong, but I think Dismiss, Complicate, or any of the other counters I suggested are better)
I don't think your multicolour section would be considered 'small'. Many cubes significantly bigger than yours only run 4 cards per colour combo.
Spell Snare has been talked about for being cut, and I do like Into the Roil and Snap. Lethargy Trap seems like a card that has potential, but I haven't seen it get played. I want to think people are still in the Zendikar "attack attack attack" stigma, so I'm going to give it a bit more time.
I meant small in the sense that there are many cards that could be played just by strength alone, but anything larger would obviously skew the cube towards multicolor too strongly. It has been at 6 per color combination in the past.
I'll write up a list of cards tomorrow while I'm sitting bored at work
I like blind with anger (ray of command) for the fact it can be a normal threaten, but most importantly it can be an awesome combat trick to take your opponent's attackers and run them into each other. (which you can't do with grab the reins unless they have vigilance).
I definately wouldn't cut gush, even in limited formats like cube, it's still a complete bomb. I do think compulsive research is a necessary blue card though.
If you want another list to compare to I also have a commons/uncommons cube thread up, and I just updated it for ROE.
I'll be waiting for the list, and I'll take a look at yours tomorrow as well. Making a somewhat short post on Klug's thread and hitting the sheets.
List of cards that you might look at changing:
White: the creature aggro color. aim for low cost evasion & knights.
Judge Unworthy: white has alot of solid removal, something like this is uneeded
Fortify: while it can be decent for token hordes & the occasional red field wipe, it's still somewhat costly & commons/uncommons don't have numerous token makers.
Darklit gargoyle: there's alot of white 2 drop 2 power fliers that don't need black to be decent.
Kabuto moth: fairly expensive for a 1/2 flier that is best (although mediocre at that comparitively) on the defense. there's better options for an aggressive color like white.
Nomad decoy: this is iffy, it's threshold is nice, but is expensive compared to other tappers like squll drifter, whipcorder, and gold meadow harrier.
Castle raptors: good on the defensive, however that's not what you want your 5 cost fliers to be doing for you.
welkin guide: very expensive for a 2/2 flier that might "shock" your opponent when it comes into play.
phantom flock: phantoms look good on paper, but only the centaur can actually perform. it's that pro black & (essentially) pro red that makes centaur awesome (5 power for 4 is also nice :D)
oathsworn giant: vigilance is nice, but as it's only a defensive boost on a mediocre body for 6 cost, not worth the mana.
Blue: control & draw power, the best support color ever made.
remove soul: you have exclude which fetches you a card. general rule for the counterspells I include: 2 cost hard counters, anything else should net you an additional benefit in some way (like dismiss & exclude that draw you cards).
wings of velis vel: I under stand why this is in here, he's actually pretty awesome, however very weird in blue & I think you can find something better for its spot.
wipe away: split second is awesome in a fully powered cube where there are activated abilities a plenty, however in c/u a 3 cost boomerang that doesn't draw you a card is pretty bad.
Lethargy trap: seems like a bad fog. blue has better defensive options than this.
hedron crab: ah the little crab. if zendikar draft taught us anything this guy is deadly is in multiples, however this is singleton, and a single crab with no other mill support isn't that good.
fathom seer: gush on a stick... sadly it's kind of a crappy stick since not only are you required to use the alternative casting cost for gush, you have to pay an additional 3 mana for it. if it had morph 4U/return 2 islands, it'd be awesome.
vertigo spawn: if it had 4 toughness this thing would be awesome, but for now I'd try wall of frost or kraken hatchling.
trinket mage: awesome in constructed, however we don't have all the mana ramp and utility artifacts that are available at rare, feels like there's better blue choices than a grey ogre with slight chance of benefits.
Windrider Eel: it's an aggressive creature in a non-aggressive color. there's better fliers, such as serendib efreet.
Black: you should use less raise dead style effects, and more animate dead effects.
Innocent blood: barter in blood = awesome because it can 2 for one. for single sack effect spells, stick with the edicts, the 1 extra mana is worth your extra creature.
crippling fatigue: there's alot of good black removal, and the flashback doesn't quite get this upto par.
massacre: it's free play effect makes this feel like a sideboard card (compared to infest at least), and I hate the idea of drafting cube cards specifically for sideboards.
Pthisis: strong effect, to costly, and too long for the suspend. pretty awesome on turn 2, but imagine drawing this thing turn 4 or 5, what do you do with it?
stinkweed imp: I'd like this thing if you ran more reanimation, but dredge 5 is pretty harsh on a 40 card deck, for only a 1/2 flier.
gravedigger: there's better creatures. if you insist on a raise dead effect on a creature, try cadaver imp.
red: being the most aggressive color means you should have the majority of you creatures have citp damage effects or haste.
inferno trap: 4 cost, remove a creature only, there's much better. look to replace with flame slash out of ROE.
riddle of lightning: 5 cost is alot of mana to do an average of 3 damage (average converted cost of c/u cubes)
rockslide elemental: lacking haste & requiring other creatures to die to be decent makes this guy need a replacement.
vashino outrider: echo throws off alot of tempo, and for only a 4 power vanilla on turn 3, there's better options.
shatterskull giant: I'm pretty sure there's a better creature than a 4 power vanilla for 4 you could be using.
viahino fang tail: pretty sweet on paper, and one that you could honestly find pretty awesome. I just personally don't like waiting till turn 5 to ping things, and a 3/3 for 4 is underpowered.
geyser glider: 4/4 "flyer" for 5. red just feels like it could use something faster, stronger, and more reliable.
Green: You have way to many echo creatures. echo slows down tempo and makes every creature player with it this way an auto 1 for 2 when your opponent kills them. the only 2 acceptable echo creatures for green (in my opinion) are albino troll & pouncing jaguar, and even those are questionable.
hidden guerrilas: you only have 30 artifacts in your cube, which may make karstoderm good, but hidden guerrilas a waste of a card slot or a sideboard card (which isn't something you should be looking for)
crop rotation: with the awesome rare lands not available, there's not usually a specific land you want to dig out of your deck, so at best it acts as a non ramping fixer.
topan ascetic: if c/u made more tokens, this could be more abusable, however it feels like you'd rather just be playing a 3/3 for 3 most of the time, and even that's not good enough for cube.
stampeding serow: while strong for it's cost, I still feel green can be doing better, even at c/u.
Multicolored: for the vast majority looks solid, but multicolored to be the most personally influenced for card choices.
mask of riddles: I feel that either recoil or soul manipulation are stronger choices for u/b
mercy killing & enlisted wurm: green white literally is the strongest multicolored combination ever made, and both of these are weaker choices than pridemage, guildmage, cavaliers, and armadillo cloak (and yes having both sledge & cloak is a good choice). enlisted wurm looks tempting, but realize that cascade is no where near as good here as in constructed, especially when having to pay 6 mana to get it.
rakdos guildmage & shambling remains: much like g/w, r/b is very strong, but would be remis if you looked over terminate & fire covenant (ususally turns out to be an instant speed pay 4-5 life to kill 3 creatures for only 3 mana, very worth it).
Artifact: why only 30? but still a very solid 30.
darksteel gargoyle: indestructible + flying is very tempting, but not worth 7 mana.
it's definately not a bad card, it can actually be good. but there are plenty of good cards that don't quite make the cut for cubes. for 1 more colorless mana you lose the need to sacrifice your own creature, and there's 3 different edicts like that.
so yes, innocent blood is good, especially against tempo decks (why it saw constructed play), but I think there's better ones to include for cube.
Innocent Blood aside, people shouldn't lose sight of the fact that Folken did a good job of pointing out a lot of cards that are subpar and/or have better options to replace them.
First off, Folken, thanks a TON for this. This is just the type of discussion I was hoping to get. I've actually got my buddy up from Orlando that I split this cube with, and we read the suggestions and went through Worldwake at the same time. Randomly decided to go from the bottom up, seemed like the shorter answers were artifact/multicolored, for obvious reasons. I'll either double-post or edit this in the future for White, Black and Blue, because of time constraints.
Red
Inferno Trap is becoming Searing Blaze. Riddle of Lightning has played well for us, but we're keeping an eye on it. Don't disagree with you about any of the red goons, bar Viashino Outrider. Red's guys suck. Need better options, especially with that size.
Green
Stampeding Serow is cut for Beastial Menace. Acridian is cut for Leatherback Baloth. Topan Ascetic is cut for Jungle Lions. Albino Troll is cut for Wall of Blossoms. Oxidize is cut for Naturalize. Uktabi Orangutan is becoming the Viridian Shaman it always should've been. Crop Rotation has power targets (man lands, Library, Maze of Ith, Mishra's Factory, karoos)
U/
Wasp Lancer is getting cut for Lim-Dul's Vault. We feel like Mask of Riddles is still untested, and fills a unique niche that doens't have another effect anywhere in the cube. Played Recoil, felt highly underwhelming, and Soul Manipulation, when you REALLY want to cast it on turns 3-5, is a worse Remove Soul.
R/
Gonna test Fire Covenant over Rakdos Guildmage, it's been briefly discussed before, but if you guys have good results with it, I can see it being strong. Terminate is just another removal spell (perhaps the best one, no doubt) in the two colors that have removal every which way. Shambling Remains provides reach, and unearth is just a very powerful mechanic, IMO.
G/
Mercy Killing is a very skill-intensive card, awarding good play decisions and giving removal to a green suite that is rather light on it otherwise. You can blow people out on offense or defense with it, counter opposing removal spells. Enlisted Wurm, on the other hand, just brings such a board presence with it that it must immeadiately be answered or the game's just over.
We've actually played with every card you suggested. Guildmage was too slow, Armadillo Cloak led to too much card disadvantage (once anyone saw you with it, everyone else knew they needed to hold removal for it), Pridemage's effects are replicated in other places in the cube, and with removal being so prevalent in our list, exalted really isn't overly relevant. And lastly, the Cavaliers aren't bad by any means, but G/W is by no means hurting for effective goons. We'd just prefer unique effects to another 3 drop that either color can easily obtain.
Artifact
Darksteel Gargoyle is there as a finisher that any color has access to, but it's definitely sub-par. Rise of the Eldrazi will have substitutes, for now I think we're going to swap it with Pilgrim's Eye. Artisan of Kozilek and Ulamog's Crusher are on the list of things we're gonna consider next go-around.
Thanks again for sparking the discussion, any initial thoughts from anyone?
i don't like Mask of Riddles. UB decks often don't have very many creatures, so playing a card that rewards having a lot of creatures isn't exactly what i'm looking for in a UB card. we cut it a while back and haven't missed it at all.
i never realized Lim-Dul's Vault is an uncommon. i might have to try that.
i am a big fan of Remove Soul (and Essence Scatter and False Summoning and Preemptive Strike). there are not very many two-mana counterspells worth playing in this format, and because all of the decks intend to win with creatures, it's actually quite a good card. i have Remove Soul and Essence Scatter in my cube and they're picked fairly high.
White
Welkin Guide is becoming Celestial Crusader. Judge Unworthy is becoming Wall of Omens. Fortify is becoming Swell of Courage. Darklit Gargoyle is becoming Elite Vanguard. Nomad Decoy is becoming Kor Skyfisher. Oathsworn Giant is becoming Flickerwisp. Phantom Flock is becoming Miraculous Recovery, Kabuto Moth is now Land Tax, and Castle Raptors is Harm's Way.
Loam Lion, Kor Firewalker & Descendant of Kiyomaro are all under consideration.
Blue
Jilt is becoming Into the Roil. Vertigo Spawn is becoming Wall of Frost. Wipe Away is becoming Calcite Snapper, Lethargy Trap is becoming Sleep, Windrider Eel is becoming Floodgate, Hovergard Observer is becoming Voyager Drake. Thinking about Impulse, Psionic Blast, Force of Will, and Hedron Crab is basically holding the Enclave Cryptologist's spot.
Watching Fathom Seer, Wings of Velis Vel is a unique combat trick for blue.
Black
Genju of the Bads is now Corrupted Zendikon. Massacre is now Ashes to Ashes. Corpulent Corpse is now Carnophage, Alphetto Exterminator is now Cabal Interrogator, Nightshade Assassin is Okiba-Gang Shinobi, Viscera Dragger is Howling Banshee, Zombie Cutthroat is Phyrexian Gargantua. Smother is now Doom Blade, Dread Return is now Diabolic Servitude, Marsh Casualties is now Skeletal Scrying. Wrench Mind is now Demonic Tutor. Crippling Fatigue is now Barter in Blood, Mind Sludge is now Ribbons of Night. Considering Necromancy, watching Soul Stair Expidition and Gravedigger
Red
Zektar Shrine Expidition is now Hellspark Elemental. Avalanche Riders is now Ogre Arsonist. Punishing Fire is now Chain Lightning. Soul's Fire is now Browbeat. Imperial Recruiter is now Fire Imp. Goblin Bushwacker is now Aftershock. Skatterskull Giant is now Ancient Hydra.
This is a huge update all in all, 45 cards, 1/8th of the cube. Seems like black and blue in particular have gotten a lot stronger, and I'm looking forward to trying and get it drafted on Friday. Any input, from this wall of text?
White
Welkin Guide is becoming Celestial Crusader. Judge Unworthy is becoming Wall of Omens. Fortify is becoming Swell of Courage. Darklit Gargoyle is becoming Elite Vanguard. Nomad Decoy is becoming Kor Skyfisher. Oathsworn Giant is becoming Flickerwisp. Phantom Flock is becoming Miraculous Recovery, Kabuto Moth is now Land Tax, and Castle Raptors is Harm's Way.
Loam Lion, Kor Firewalker & Descendant of Kiyomaro are all under consideration.
Blue
Jilt is becoming Into the Roil. Vertigo Spawn is becoming Wall of Frost. Wipe Away is becoming Calcite Snapper, Lethargy Trap is becoming Sleep, Windrider Eel is becoming Flood Gate, Hovergard Observer is becoming Voyager Drake. Thinking about Impulse, Psionic Blast, Force of Will, and Hedron Crab is basically holding the Enclave Cryptologist's spot.
Watching Fathom Seer, Wings of Velis Vel is a unique combat trick for blue.
Black
Genju of the Bads is now Corrupted Zendikon. Massacre is now Ashes to Ashes. Corpulent Corpse is now Carnophage, Alphetto Exterminator is now Cabal Interrogator, Nightshade Assassin is Okiba-Gang Shinobi, Viscera Dragger is Howling Banshee, Zombie Cutthroat is Phyrexian Gargantua. Smother is now Doom Blade, Dread Return is now Diabolic Servitude, Marsh Casualties is now Skeletal Scrying. Wrench Mind is now Demonic Tutor. Crippling Fatigue is now Barter in Blood, Mind Sludge is now Ribbons of Night. Considering Necromancy, watching Soul Stair Expidition and Gravedigger
Red
Zektar Shrine Expidition is now Hellspark Elemental. Avalanche Riders is now Ogre Arsonist. Punishing Fire is now Chain Lightning. Soul's Fire is now Browbeat. Imperial Recruiter is now Fire Imp. Goblin Bushwacker is now Aftershock. Skatterskull Giant is now Ancient Hydra.
This is a huge update all in all, 45 cards, 1/8th of the cube. Seems like black and blue in particular have gotten a lot stronger, and I'm looking forward to trying and get it drafted on Friday. Any input, from this wall of text?
um, wow. I literally agree with every single change made except for avalanche riders for ogre arsonist. that one extra mana can mean a pretty big loss in temp, and the echo has oddly never really hurt avalanche riders (actually can be useful for reanimator effects the following turn), and the haste makes up for the echo as well.
I also had never seen flood gate before and it honestly made me giggle when I saw it. it's decent, and seems like an awesome pet card. I think in the future you'll end up cutting it, but it seems like a lot of fun until then.
the only other thing that stood out to me was kor firewalker. yeah, it's an awesome card, and a complete blow out against red. however against any other color it's a bad bear, making it completely sideboard card, however you shouldn't be drafting cards from cube just for your sideboard. it's why cards like boil & flashfires never make it in.
um, wow. I literally agree with every single change made except for avalanche riders for ogre arsonist. that one extra mana can mean a pretty big loss in temp, and the echo has oddly never really hurt avalanche riders (actually can be useful for reanimator effects the following turn), and the haste makes up for the echo as well.
I also had never seen flood gate before and it honestly made me giggle when I saw it. it's decent, and seems like an awesome pet card. I think in the future you'll end up cutting it, but it seems like a lot of fun until then.
the only other thing that stood out to me was kor firewalker. yeah, it's an awesome card, and a complete blow out against red. however against any other color it's a bad bear, making it completely sideboard card, however you shouldn't be drafting cards from cube just for your sideboard. it's why cards like boil & flashfires never make it in.
but really, awesome job with the changes.
We just found out about the Flood Gate today, seems like a blue wrath is a rarity that could be built around. Can't hurt to give it a shot, at least.
My mindframe was that you mainly draft Silver/White knights to crush the deck they have protection from, and I was just trying to gauge the value of first strike against just beating any red deck. To be fair, red is without a doubt the worst color in the cube right now.
You think the one mana is a huge deal, concerning Riders vs. Arsonist? Haven't actually played the arsonist, but not having echo and being 3/3 seemed like almost a strict upgrade to us.
A couple of solid months of cubing have passed, and RoE has made an impact on the list. With my normal co-conspirator marching with Teal Sound at the moment, I made a brain trust of much stronger players than myself, leading to another cube-wide facelift. I put the changes in spoilers to try and make the post a bit easier to read (63 changes?), if that's a hassle I'll take them back out.
Gold
Sturdy Hatchling -> Winged Coatl
Temporal Spring -> Lorescale Coatl
Mask of Riddles -> Twisted Justice
Gelectrode -> Minotaur Illusionist
Izzet Guildmage -> Schismotivate
Psychatog -> Soul Manipulation
Tidehollow Sculler -> Blind Hunter
Gerrard's Verdict -> Necrotic Sliver
Souls of the Faultless -> Pillory of the Sleepless
Sky Hussar -> Kiss of the Amesha
Goblin Legionnaire -> Duergar Hedge-Mage
Esper Charm -> Thopter Foundry
Lim-Dul's Vault -> Clutch of the Undercity
Congregation at Dawn -> Selesnya Guildmage
The only changes I've second-guessed are Souls of the Faultless, Sturdy Hatchling and Congregation at Dawn. I'm looking forward to seeing the Coatls in action, and I think U/R in particular got a pretty major boost, if Schismotivate turns out as well as I think it will.
As much as I don't like cutting Whitemane Lion, it was either him or Kor Skyfisher. Ivory Giant also played fine, but it wasn't vital for any given archetype, and just felt like a lower power level than everything getting brought in.
Blue
Hedron Crab -> Enclave Cryptologist
Thirst for Knowledge -> Compulsive Research
Floodgate -> Force of Will
Spell Snare -> Psionic Blast
Genju of the Falls -> Unstable Mutation
Gush -> Tidings
Ovinize -> Pongify
Wall of Frost -> Guard Gomazoa
Whiplash Trap -> Dominate
Brainstorm -> Serendib Efreet
Wings of Velis Vel -> Confiscate
Waterfront Bouncer -> Mana Drain
Remand -> Infiltrator il-Kor
Some more difficult swaps to make, but the power level of things added is undeniable, for the most part. Any experiences with Unstable Mutation, Infiltrator il-Kor and/or Confiscate that you guys could share? Because I think the last 5 or 6 blue cards cut can and will be missed at times. Just gonna shake things up.
Another long list of changes, but the only cards I think I'll miss are Crop Rotation and Hidden Guerrillas. A good bit of card advantage coming in for green, which is much needed.
Colorless
Lurebound Scarecrow -> Ulamog's Crusher
Clockwork Hydra -> Artisan of Kozilek
Manriki-Gusari -> Sword of the Meek
Adventuring Gear -> Trusty Machete
No-Dachi -> Expedition Map
Pit Trap -> Mind Stone
Mask of Memory -> Su-Chi
We'll see how this Eldrazi experiment turns out, and if the Thopter/Sword combo proves irrelevant, overpowered, or just good enough to stick around. Is Su-Chi good enough?
Lands
Spawning Pool -> Nantuko Monastary
Forbidden Watchtower -> Strip Mine
Ghitu Encampment -> Evolving Wilds
The cycle is broken, but people were rarely happy with any of those man-lands in their 40.
I'm debating going up to 375, adding 10 lands and 1 card of each color, including Booster Tutor. Tri-lands, City of Brass, Gemstone Mine, Tectonic Edge, Zoetic Cavern, Bazaar, Terminal Moraine, Mirrodin's Core, Island of Wak-Wak, and possibly those 3 cut lands are all available. That added manafixing should make 3-5 color decks work a lot more smoothly, which could be a bad thing.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
I'd got nuts with cardlust if they reprinted Albino Troll as a common. It'd go in my cube so fast, I think I might even rupture an artery. The same should be for C/U cubes.
Albino Troll could definitely come back in, people just seem to have a stigma against Echo in every way, shape and form. Of the things you listed, quite, people only played Psychatog, who obviously got much worse post-M10, and Esper Charm, which may come back in if the Thopter/Sword combo doesn't pan out. The two Coatls, in particular, have already performed well in Temporal Spring+Sturdy Hatchling's stead.
Gerrard's Verdict never seemed to get played, as weird as that is, and Sculler just seems too fragile. Gelectrode has been underwhelming for a good time.
The argument against Brainstorm was that it didn't do enough by comparison to Ponder or even Serum Visions with so few shuffle mechanics available. I mean, I've run it, and seen it get played in the cube plenty of times, so it's leave may be a short one. Like I said, the blue cuts were difficult.
Any experiences with Unstable Mutation, Infiltrator il-Kor and/or Confiscate that you guys could share?
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
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So, here it is, sorted by color, type (spell/creature) and mana cost. If I had a camera to use, I would
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Creatures: (30)
Loam Lion
Akrasan SquireFoil
Goldmeadow HarrierFoil
Mother of RunesFoil (FNM)
Elite VanguardFoil
Wall of Omens
Knight of Meadowgrain
White KnightFoil
Knight of the Holy NimbusFoil
Silver KnightFoil
Kor Skyfisher
Aven RiftwatcherFoil
Ballynock CohortFoil
FlickerwispFoil
Priests of Norn
Porcelain Legionnaire
Kor SanctifiersFoil
StonecloakerFoil
Descendant of Kiyomaro
Spirit en-DalFoil
CalcidermFoil (DCI)
Voice of All
Guardian of the GuildpactFoil
Celestial CrusaderFoil
Glimmerpoint Stag
Shepherd of the LostFoil
Razor Hippogriff
Serra AngelFoil
Cloudgoat RangerFoil
Duskrider PeregrineFoil
Brainstorm
Pongify
Remove SoulFoil
CounterspellFoil (FNM)
Into the Roil
Capsize
Compulsive Research
Propaganda
Exclude
Forbid
Psionic Blast (Textless)
RepulseFoil
Control Magic
Mystical Teachings
Deep AnalysisFoil
Fact or FictionFoil (FNM)
Jace's Ingenuity
Traumatic VisionsFoil
Force of Will
Honden of Seeing WindsFoil
Gush
Volition ReinsFoil
DominateFoil
Creatures: (23)
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Sudden DeathFoil
Dismember
Barter in BloodFoil
Snuff OutFoil
Ribbons of NightFoil
Contagion
Rise from the Grave
PhthisisFoil
Skeletal ScryingFoil
Exsanguinate[/CARDS]
Creatures: (25)
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Flame SlashFoil
FireboltFoil (FNM)
[CARD]Chain Lightning
[/CARD]Lightning BoltFoil (MPR)
Magma JetFoil
Arc Trail
Incinerate (Textless)
Searing BlazeFoil
Breath of DarigaazFoil
Flame JavelinFoil
PillageFoil
Staggershock (Full-art)
PyrohemiaFoil
Chandra's Outrage
Act of Aggression
Shower of Coals
Riddle of LightningFoil
Slice and DiceFoil
Pyrokinesis
FireblastFoil (FNM)
Rough/TumbleFoil
Death by Dragons
Rolling Thunder
Creatures: (26)
Plated GeopedeFoil
Hellspark ElementalFoil (Gateway)
Ember Hauler
Blood Knight
Keldon MaraudersFoil
Jund BattlemageFoil
Rockslide ElementalFoil
Fire Imp
Manic Vandal
Viashino Heretic
Hissing IgunarFoil
Keldon Champion
Avalanche RidersFoil (FNM)
Furnace WhelpFoil
Oxxida Scrapmelter
Tormentor Exarch
Fire Servant
Ancient HydraFoil
Flametongue KavuFoil (FNM)
Lava HoundsFoil
Viashino FangtailFoil
Ogre Arsonist
Gathan RaidersFoil
Firemaw KavuFoil
Kuldotha Flamefiend
Worldly Tutor
Crop Rotation
Vines of VastwoodFoil
RancorFoil
BerserkFoil
Genju of the CedarsFoil
Regrowth
Lignify
Sylvan Library
Sprout SwarmFoil
Beast Within
Moldervine CloakFoil
Lead the Stampede
[CARD]Krosan Grip
[/CARD]HarrowFoil
Kodama's Reach (Signed)
Slice in Twain
Harmonize (Textless)
Beast AttackFoil
Baloth Cage TrapFoil
OverrunFoil
Bestial MenaceFoil
Creatures: (30)
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
U/
Clutch of the UndercityFoil
MoroiiFoil
Agony WarpFoil
Twisted JusticeFoil
Soul ManipulationFoil
U/
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
R/
Foil
Foil
U/
Foil
Foil
Foil
G/
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
R/
Foil
Foil
B/
Foil
Foil
B/
Foil
Foil
R/
Foil
Foil
Foil
R/
Foil
Foil
Tri-Color
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Foil
Arcane Sanctum
Crumbling Necropolis
Jungle Shrine
Savage Lands
Seaside Citadel
Vivid CragFoil
Vivid Grove
Vivid MeadowFoil
Vivid MarshFoil
Vivid CreekFoil
[card]
Terramorphic Expanse
Evolving WildsFoil
Dread Statuary
Barbarian Ring
Cabal Coffers
Faerie ConclaveFoil
Thawing Glaciers
Tectonic Edge
WastelandFoil
Mishra's Factory
Rupture SpireFoil
Library of Alexandria
Maze of Ith
Changelog:
Welkin Guide -> Celestial Crusader
Judge Unworthy -> Wall of Omens
Fortify -> Swell of Courage
Darklit Gargoyle -> Elite Vanguard
Nomad Decoy -> Kor Skyfisher
Oathsworn Giant -> Flickerwisp
Phantom Flock -> Miraculous Recovery
Kabuto Moth -> Land Tax
Castle Raptors -> Harm's Way
Jilt -> Into the Roil
Vertigo Spawn -> Wall of Frost
Wipe Away -> Calcite Snapper
Lethargy Trap -> Sleep
Windrider Eel -> Flood Gate
Hovergard Observer -> Voyager Drake
Genju of the Bads -> Corrupted Zendikon
Massacre -> Ashes to Ashes
Corpulent Corpse -> Carnophage
Alphetto Exterminator -> Cabal Interrogator
Nightshade Assassin -> Okiba-Gang Shinobi
Viscera Dragger -> Howling Banshee
Zombie Cutthroat -> Phyrexian Gargantua
Smother -> Doom Blade
Dread Return -> Diabolic Servitude
Marsh Casualties -> Skeletal Scrying
Wrench Mind -> Demonic Tutor
Crippling Fatigue -> Barter in Blood
Mind Sludge -> Ribbons of Night
Zektar Shrine Expidition -> Hellspark Elemental
Avalanche Riders -> Ogre Arsonist
Punishing Fire -> Chain Lightning
Soul's Fire -> Browbeat
Imperial Recruiter -> Fire Imp
Goblin Bushwacker -> Aftershock
Skatterskull Giant -> Ancient Hydra
Inferno Trap -> Searing Blaze
Stampeding Serow -> Beastial Menace
Acridian -> Leatherback Baloth
Topan Ascetic -> Jungle Lions
Albino Troll -> Wall of Blossoms
Oxidize -> Naturalize
Uktabi Orangutan -> Viridian Shaman
Wasp Lancer -> Lim-Dul's Vault
Rakdos Guildmage -> Fire Covenant
Darksteel Gargoyle -> Pilgrim's Eye
Temporal Spring -> Lorescale Coatl
Mask of Riddles -> Twisted Justice
Gelectrode -> Minotaur Illusionist
Izzet Guildmage -> Schismotivate
Psychatog -> Soul Manipulation
Tidehollow Sculler -> Blind Hunter
Gerrard's Verdict -> Necrotic Sliver
Souls of the Faultless -> Pillory of the Sleepless
Sky Hussar -> Kiss of the Amesha
Goblin Legionnaire -> Duergar Hedge-Mage
Esper Charm -> Thopter Foundry
Lim-Dul's Vault -> Clutch of the Undercity
Congregation at Dawn -> Selesnya Guildmage
Disenchant -> Kor Sanctifiers
Steppe Lynx -> Loam Lion
Changeling Hero -> Survival Cache
Whitemane Lion -> Dawnglare Invoker
Swell of Courage -> Spirit en-Dal
Ivory Giant -> Descendant of Kiyomaro
Hedron Crab -> Enclave Cryptologist
Ovinize -> Pongify
Wall of Frost* -> Guard Gomazoa
Thirst for Knowledge -> Compulsive Research
Floodgate -> Force of Will
Spell Snare -> Psionic Blast
Genju of the Falls -> Unstable Mutation
Gush -> Tidings
Whiplash Trap -> Dominate
Brainstorm -> Serendib Efreet
Wings of Velis Vel -> Confiscate
Waterfront Bouncer -> Mana Drain
Remand -> Infiltrator il-Kor
Cabal Interrogator -> Takenuma Bleeder
Corrupted Zendikon* -> Ogre Marauder
Stinkweed Imp -> Arrogant Bloodlord
Smallpox -> Nirkana Cutthroat
Dark Ritual -> Executioner's Capsule
Victimize?
Juzam Djinn
Mogg Fanatic -> Flame Slash
Browbeat -> Staggershock
Changeling Berserker -> Keldon Champion
Gorilla Shaman -> Viashino Heretic
Viashino Outrider -> Reckless Wurm
Goblin Ruinblaster -> Ogre Arsonist
Mogg War Marshal -> Avalanche Riders
Naturalize -> Indrik Stomphowler
Viridian Shaman -> Carven Caryatid
Leatherback Baloth -> Pelakka Wurm
Seal of Primordium -> Acidic Slime
Sylvan Scrying -> Kodama's Reach
Grazing Gladeheart -> Boar Umbra
Turntimber Basilisk -> Beastbreaker of Bala Ged
Rhox Charger -> Imperiosaur
Skyshroud Elite -> Sylvan Library
Changeling Titan -> Hunting Wilds
Jungle Lion -> Arrogant Wurm
Hidden Guerrillas -> Worldly Tutor
Crop Rotation -> Berserk
Lurebound Scarecrow -> Ulamog's Crusher
Clockwork Hydra -> Artisan of Kozilek
Manriki-Gusari -> Sword of the Meek
Adventuring Gear -> Trusty Machete
No-Dachi -> Expedition Map
Pit Trap -> Mind Stone
Mask of Memory -> Su-Chi
Spawning Pool -> Nantuko Monastary
Forbidden Watchtower -> Strip Mine
Ghitu Encampment -> Evolving Wilds
Gemstone Mine
City of Brass
Tri-Lands
Spellshapers
Sea Drake
Journey to Nowhere -> Glimmerpoint Stag
Sunscape Battlemage -> Razor Hippogriff
Dawnglare Invoker -> Poreclain Legionnaire
Griffin Guide -> Priests of Norn
Ponder -> Brainstorm
Tidings -> Jace’s Ingenuity
Confiscate -> Volition Reins
Sleep -> Mystical Teachings
Mana Leak -> Arcane Denial
Unstable Mutation -> Clone
Esper Battlemage -> Vedalken Anatomist
Spiketail Drakeling -> AEther Adept
Thieving Magpie -> Impaler Shrike
Fathom Seer -> Gush
Voyager Drake -> Spire Monitor
Gravedigger -> Entomber Exarch
Last Gasp -> Grasp of Darkness
Faceless Butcher -> Skinrender
Soul Stair Expedition -> Reassembling Skeleton
Kor Dirge -> Rise from the Grave
Incremental Blight -> Exsanguinate
Innocent Blood -> Sign in Blood
Executioner’s Capsule -> Go for the Throat
Vendetta -> Dismember
Throat Slitter -> Juzam Djinn
Okiba-Gang Shinobi -> Grixis Slavedriver
Takenuma Bleeder -> Necrogen Scudder
Blind with Anger -> Act of Aggression
Sudden Shock -> Chandra’s Outrage
Cone of Flame -> Shower of Coals
Genju of the Spires -> Arc Trail
Jackal Pup -> Manic Vandal
Kird Ape -> Oxidda Scrapmelter
Hearth Kami -> Ember Hauler
Rockslide Elemental -> Kutholda Flamefiend
Bladetusk Boar -> Tormentor Exarch
Reckless Wurm -> Fire Servant
Geyser Glider -> Death by Dragons
Elephant Guide -> Beast Within
Boar Umbra -> Crop Rotation
Hunting Wilds -> Slice in Twain
Pouncing Jaguar -> Lignify
Wild Nacatl -> Jorgada Treespeaker
Mire Boa -> Veridian Emissary
River Boa -> Lead the Stampede
Carven Caryatid -> Garruk’s Packleader
Karstoderm -> Bellowing Tanglewurm
Arrogant Wurm -> Brutalizer Exarch
Juggernaut -> Golem Artisan
Leonin Bola -> Mortarpod
Forysian Totem -> Shrine of Burning Rage
Phyrexian Totem -> Phyrexian Totem
Weatherseed Totem -> Shrine of Loyal Legions
Trusty Machete -> Glint Hawk Idol
-10x Karoos
+5x Trilands
Terramorphic Expanse
Dread Statuary
Barbarian Ring
Cabal Coffers
Thawing Glaciers
Air Servant
Dreams of the Dead 7/16
Flood
Gitaxian Probe
Quicksilver Geyser
Viral Drake
Waterfront Bouncer
Booster Tutor
Ghitu Slinger
Sulfurous Blast?
Emrakul's Hatcher?
Flowstone Crusher?
Fireslinger?
Fissure
Cultivate
Garruk's Companion
Sacred Wolf
Sylvan Ranger
Clone Shell
Perilous Myr
Pierce Strider
Gargoyle Sentinel
Lumengrid Gargoyle
Moriok Replica
Necropouncer
Wall of Tanglecord
Sickleslicer
Comments are more than welcome, but desired!
Klug's thread has alot of good discussion concerning ROE, and I posted the list of cards I'm using from it in his thread along with my reasoning for them.
I just have to ask, do you actually have a library of alexandria & imperial recruiter?
also I didn't realize blind with anger existed, I think I'm going to try and find a spot for it (I cut out grab the reins because it doesn't untap the creature).
My Common/Uncommon Cube - I need to update the online list badly...
There's a Planeswalker for that! - Child of Alara, Mono-Planeswalker EDH
Savra Sack Off - Savra, Queen of the Golgari, Grave Pact Control EDH
Anthems of Heliod - Heliod, God of the Sun, Token & Anthem EDH
[CARD]
Oxidize[/CARD] --> Naturalize (much more flexible)
Gush ---> Compulsive Research (gush isn't that hot in cube/limited)
Some good counters that could easily replace some of the weaker blue spells: Force Spike, Memory Lapse, Arcane Denial, Dismiss
Even in a small cube, I would run more mana fixing lands eg. Shards Tri-lands, Zendikar refuges etc.
Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards
I've glanced at Klug's thread briefly, I'll have to sit down and take a good read of it soon. No, we don't have a Library or Recruiter
And could you give some more specific examples of the slower cards? As it is right now, control tends to get the short end of the stick, although it's not unfeasible by any means.
Blind with Anger is a beating, to be sure. Not sure why some people that draft the cube dislike it, I find it's a beast of a card at instant for 4 mana. I remember blowing people to shreds with it back in Kamigawa block draft
Oxidize is on the list of things to cut, but Gush has been performing well for us. Compulsive Research has been discussed numerous times, FWIW. Any other recommendations on the weaker blue spells?
How do you suggest we expand the cube to try and add more lands in? With a couple of exceptions (blue/black mainly), the gold section is too small, if anything, and we already cut the Ravnica artifacts. To be fair, though, I can easily picture another 10 lands that could go in and see some serious usage.
[card]
Spell Snare [/card] (it isn't as good in cube as it is in Legacy constructed, particularly compared to the other counterspells I listed)
Jilt (not as good as other bounce spells i.e. snap, into the roil, and really should be in the multicolour section anyway)
Lethargy Trap (really just not a strong card. It is basically a conditional fog most of the time)
Exclude (seems strong, but I think Dismiss, Complicate, or any of the other counters I suggested are better)
I don't think your multicolour section would be considered 'small'. Many cubes significantly bigger than yours only run 4 cards per colour combo.
Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards
I'll write up a list of cards tomorrow while I'm sitting bored at work
I like blind with anger (ray of command) for the fact it can be a normal threaten, but most importantly it can be an awesome combat trick to take your opponent's attackers and run them into each other. (which you can't do with grab the reins unless they have vigilance).
I definately wouldn't cut gush, even in limited formats like cube, it's still a complete bomb. I do think compulsive research is a necessary blue card though.
If you want another list to compare to I also have a commons/uncommons cube thread up, and I just updated it for ROE.
My Common/Uncommon Cube - I need to update the online list badly...
There's a Planeswalker for that! - Child of Alara, Mono-Planeswalker EDH
Savra Sack Off - Savra, Queen of the Golgari, Grave Pact Control EDH
Anthems of Heliod - Heliod, God of the Sun, Token & Anthem EDH
Spell Snare has been talked about for being cut, and I do like Into the Roil and Snap. Lethargy Trap seems like a card that has potential, but I haven't seen it get played. I want to think people are still in the Zendikar "attack attack attack" stigma, so I'm going to give it a bit more time.
I meant small in the sense that there are many cards that could be played just by strength alone, but anything larger would obviously skew the cube towards multicolor too strongly. It has been at 6 per color combination in the past.
I'll be waiting for the list, and I'll take a look at yours tomorrow as well. Making a somewhat short post on Klug's thread and hitting the sheets.
White: the creature aggro color. aim for low cost evasion & knights.
My Common/Uncommon Cube - I need to update the online list badly...
There's a Planeswalker for that! - Child of Alara, Mono-Planeswalker EDH
Savra Sack Off - Savra, Queen of the Golgari, Grave Pact Control EDH
Anthems of Heliod - Heliod, God of the Sun, Token & Anthem EDH
Facebook.
Alters Blog.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
so yes, innocent blood is good, especially against tempo decks (why it saw constructed play), but I think there's better ones to include for cube.
My Common/Uncommon Cube - I need to update the online list badly...
There's a Planeswalker for that! - Child of Alara, Mono-Planeswalker EDH
Savra Sack Off - Savra, Queen of the Golgari, Grave Pact Control EDH
Anthems of Heliod - Heliod, God of the Sun, Token & Anthem EDH
Draft my cube!
Watch me stream!
Facebook.
Alters Blog.
Red
Inferno Trap is becoming Searing Blaze. Riddle of Lightning has played well for us, but we're keeping an eye on it. Don't disagree with you about any of the red goons, bar Viashino Outrider. Red's guys suck. Need better options, especially with that size.
Green
Stampeding Serow is cut for Beastial Menace. Acridian is cut for Leatherback Baloth. Topan Ascetic is cut for Jungle Lions. Albino Troll is cut for Wall of Blossoms. Oxidize is cut for Naturalize. Uktabi Orangutan is becoming the Viridian Shaman it always should've been. Crop Rotation has power targets (man lands, Library, Maze of Ith, Mishra's Factory, karoos)
U/
Wasp Lancer is getting cut for Lim-Dul's Vault. We feel like Mask of Riddles is still untested, and fills a unique niche that doens't have another effect anywhere in the cube. Played Recoil, felt highly underwhelming, and Soul Manipulation, when you REALLY want to cast it on turns 3-5, is a worse Remove Soul.
R/
Gonna test Fire Covenant over Rakdos Guildmage, it's been briefly discussed before, but if you guys have good results with it, I can see it being strong. Terminate is just another removal spell (perhaps the best one, no doubt) in the two colors that have removal every which way. Shambling Remains provides reach, and unearth is just a very powerful mechanic, IMO.
G/
Mercy Killing is a very skill-intensive card, awarding good play decisions and giving removal to a green suite that is rather light on it otherwise. You can blow people out on offense or defense with it, counter opposing removal spells. Enlisted Wurm, on the other hand, just brings such a board presence with it that it must immeadiately be answered or the game's just over.
We've actually played with every card you suggested. Guildmage was too slow, Armadillo Cloak led to too much card disadvantage (once anyone saw you with it, everyone else knew they needed to hold removal for it), Pridemage's effects are replicated in other places in the cube, and with removal being so prevalent in our list, exalted really isn't overly relevant. And lastly, the Cavaliers aren't bad by any means, but G/W is by no means hurting for effective goons. We'd just prefer unique effects to another 3 drop that either color can easily obtain.
Artifact
Darksteel Gargoyle is there as a finisher that any color has access to, but it's definitely sub-par. Rise of the Eldrazi will have substitutes, for now I think we're going to swap it with Pilgrim's Eye. Artisan of Kozilek and Ulamog's Crusher are on the list of things we're gonna consider next go-around.
Thanks again for sparking the discussion, any initial thoughts from anyone?
i never realized Lim-Dul's Vault is an uncommon. i might have to try that.
i am a big fan of Remove Soul (and Essence Scatter and False Summoning and Preemptive Strike). there are not very many two-mana counterspells worth playing in this format, and because all of the decks intend to win with creatures, it's actually quite a good card. i have Remove Soul and Essence Scatter in my cube and they're picked fairly high.
My Type 4 stack (Cube Tutor link)
Welkin Guide is becoming Celestial Crusader. Judge Unworthy is becoming Wall of Omens. Fortify is becoming Swell of Courage. Darklit Gargoyle is becoming Elite Vanguard. Nomad Decoy is becoming Kor Skyfisher. Oathsworn Giant is becoming Flickerwisp. Phantom Flock is becoming Miraculous Recovery, Kabuto Moth is now Land Tax, and Castle Raptors is Harm's Way.
Loam Lion, Kor Firewalker & Descendant of Kiyomaro are all under consideration.
Blue
Jilt is becoming Into the Roil. Vertigo Spawn is becoming Wall of Frost. Wipe Away is becoming Calcite Snapper, Lethargy Trap is becoming Sleep, Windrider Eel is becoming Floodgate, Hovergard Observer is becoming Voyager Drake. Thinking about Impulse, Psionic Blast, Force of Will, and Hedron Crab is basically holding the Enclave Cryptologist's spot.
Watching Fathom Seer, Wings of Velis Vel is a unique combat trick for blue.
Black
Genju of the Bads is now Corrupted Zendikon. Massacre is now Ashes to Ashes. Corpulent Corpse is now Carnophage, Alphetto Exterminator is now Cabal Interrogator, Nightshade Assassin is Okiba-Gang Shinobi, Viscera Dragger is Howling Banshee, Zombie Cutthroat is Phyrexian Gargantua. Smother is now Doom Blade, Dread Return is now Diabolic Servitude, Marsh Casualties is now Skeletal Scrying. Wrench Mind is now Demonic Tutor. Crippling Fatigue is now Barter in Blood, Mind Sludge is now Ribbons of Night. Considering Necromancy, watching Soul Stair Expidition and Gravedigger
Red
Zektar Shrine Expidition is now Hellspark Elemental. Avalanche Riders is now Ogre Arsonist. Punishing Fire is now Chain Lightning. Soul's Fire is now Browbeat. Imperial Recruiter is now Fire Imp. Goblin Bushwacker is now Aftershock. Skatterskull Giant is now Ancient Hydra.
This is a huge update all in all, 45 cards, 1/8th of the cube. Seems like black and blue in particular have gotten a lot stronger, and I'm looking forward to trying and get it drafted on Friday. Any input, from this wall of text?
um, wow. I literally agree with every single change made except for avalanche riders for ogre arsonist. that one extra mana can mean a pretty big loss in temp, and the echo has oddly never really hurt avalanche riders (actually can be useful for reanimator effects the following turn), and the haste makes up for the echo as well.
I also had never seen flood gate before and it honestly made me giggle when I saw it. it's decent, and seems like an awesome pet card. I think in the future you'll end up cutting it, but it seems like a lot of fun until then.
the only other thing that stood out to me was kor firewalker. yeah, it's an awesome card, and a complete blow out against red. however against any other color it's a bad bear, making it completely sideboard card, however you shouldn't be drafting cards from cube just for your sideboard. it's why cards like boil & flashfires never make it in.
but really, awesome job with the changes.
My Common/Uncommon Cube - I need to update the online list badly...
There's a Planeswalker for that! - Child of Alara, Mono-Planeswalker EDH
Savra Sack Off - Savra, Queen of the Golgari, Grave Pact Control EDH
Anthems of Heliod - Heliod, God of the Sun, Token & Anthem EDH
We just found out about the Flood Gate today, seems like a blue wrath is a rarity that could be built around. Can't hurt to give it a shot, at least.
My mindframe was that you mainly draft Silver/White knights to crush the deck they have protection from, and I was just trying to gauge the value of first strike against just beating any red deck. To be fair, red is without a doubt the worst color in the cube right now.
You think the one mana is a huge deal, concerning Riders vs. Arsonist? Haven't actually played the arsonist, but not having echo and being 3/3 seemed like almost a strict upgrade to us.
Gold
Temporal Spring -> Lorescale Coatl
Mask of Riddles -> Twisted Justice
Gelectrode -> Minotaur Illusionist
Izzet Guildmage -> Schismotivate
Psychatog -> Soul Manipulation
Tidehollow Sculler -> Blind Hunter
Gerrard's Verdict -> Necrotic Sliver
Souls of the Faultless -> Pillory of the Sleepless
Sky Hussar -> Kiss of the Amesha
Goblin Legionnaire -> Duergar Hedge-Mage
Esper Charm -> Thopter Foundry
Lim-Dul's Vault -> Clutch of the Undercity
Congregation at Dawn -> Selesnya Guildmage
The only changes I've second-guessed are Souls of the Faultless, Sturdy Hatchling and Congregation at Dawn. I'm looking forward to seeing the Coatls in action, and I think U/R in particular got a pretty major boost, if Schismotivate turns out as well as I think it will.
White
Steppe Lynx -> Loam Lion
Changeling Hero -> Survival Cache
Whitemane Lion -> Dawnglare Invoker
Swell of Courage -> Spirit en-Dal
Ivory Giant -> Descendant of Kiyomaro
As much as I don't like cutting Whitemane Lion, it was either him or Kor Skyfisher. Ivory Giant also played fine, but it wasn't vital for any given archetype, and just felt like a lower power level than everything getting brought in.
Blue
Hedron Crab -> Enclave Cryptologist
Thirst for Knowledge -> Compulsive Research
Floodgate -> Force of Will
Spell Snare -> Psionic Blast
Genju of the Falls -> Unstable Mutation
Gush -> Tidings
Ovinize -> Pongify
Wall of Frost -> Guard Gomazoa
Whiplash Trap -> Dominate
Brainstorm -> Serendib Efreet
Wings of Velis Vel -> Confiscate
Waterfront Bouncer -> Mana Drain
Remand -> Infiltrator il-Kor
Some more difficult swaps to make, but the power level of things added is undeniable, for the most part. Any experiences with Unstable Mutation, Infiltrator il-Kor and/or Confiscate that you guys could share? Because I think the last 5 or 6 blue cards cut can and will be missed at times. Just gonna shake things up.
Black
Cabal Interrogator -> Takenuma Bleeder
Corrupted Zendikon -> Ogre Marauder
Stinkweed Imp -> Arrogant Bloodlord
Smallpox -> Nirkana Cutthroat
Dark Ritual -> Executioner's Capsule
Small, simple changes. We'll see which of the 3 drops impresses most. I can picture Ritual sneaking its way back in.
Red
Mogg Fanatic -> Flame Slash
Browbeat -> Staggershock
Changeling Berserker -> Keldon Champion
Gorilla Shaman -> Viashino Heretic
Viashino Outrider -> Reckless Wurm
Goblin Ruinblaster -> Ogre Arsonist
Mogg War Marshal -> Avalanche Riders
Nothing exciting here, either, from my perspective. Flowstone Crusher is knocking at the door, though, and Sulfurous Blast wants his spot back.
Green
Naturalize -> Indrik Stomphowler
Viridian Shaman -> Carven Caryatid
Leatherback Baloth -> Pelakka Wurm
Seal of Primordium -> Acidic Slime
Sylvan Scrying -> Kodama's Reach
Grazing Gladeheart -> Boar Umbra
Turntimber Basilisk -> Beastbreaker of Bala Ged
Rhox Charger -> Imperiosaur
Skyshroud Elite -> Sylvan Library
Changeling Titan -> Hunting Wilds
Jungle Lion -> Reckless Wurm
Hidden Guerrillas -> Worldly Tutor
Crop Rotation -> Berserk
Another long list of changes, but the only cards I think I'll miss are Crop Rotation and Hidden Guerrillas. A good bit of card advantage coming in for green, which is much needed.
Colorless
Lurebound Scarecrow -> Ulamog's Crusher
Clockwork Hydra -> Artisan of Kozilek
Manriki-Gusari -> Sword of the Meek
Adventuring Gear -> Trusty Machete
No-Dachi -> Expedition Map
Pit Trap -> Mind Stone
Mask of Memory -> Su-Chi
We'll see how this Eldrazi experiment turns out, and if the Thopter/Sword combo proves irrelevant, overpowered, or just good enough to stick around. Is Su-Chi good enough?
Lands
Spawning Pool -> Nantuko Monastary
Forbidden Watchtower -> Strip Mine
Ghitu Encampment -> Evolving Wilds
The cycle is broken, but people were rarely happy with any of those man-lands in their 40.
I'm debating going up to 375, adding 10 lands and 1 card of each color, including Booster Tutor. Tri-lands, City of Brass, Gemstone Mine, Tectonic Edge, Zoetic Cavern, Bazaar, Terminal Moraine, Mirrodin's Core, Island of Wak-Wak, and possibly those 3 cut lands are all available. That added manafixing should make 3-5 color decks work a lot more smoothly, which could be a bad thing.
Thoughts, opinions, criticisms?
disenchant and steppe lynx are coming out for cards that could exist side by side with their replacements.
And Brainstorm is always good
This.
I'd got nuts with cardlust if they reprinted Albino Troll as a common. It'd go in my cube so fast, I think I might even rupture an artery. The same should be for C/U cubes.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Gerrard's Verdict never seemed to get played, as weird as that is, and Sculler just seems too fragile. Gelectrode has been underwhelming for a good time.
The argument against Brainstorm was that it didn't do enough by comparison to Ponder or even Serum Visions with so few shuffle mechanics available. I mean, I've run it, and seen it get played in the cube plenty of times, so it's leave may be a short one. Like I said, the blue cuts were difficult.
Any experiences with Unstable Mutation, Infiltrator il-Kor and/or Confiscate that you guys could share?