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06-24-2010, 04:47 PM
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#1 |
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Who is Niv-Mizzet?
 
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The Top 50 Cards List v2.0
As DalkonCledwin has turned over the honor to me for maintaining this thread, here is the updated Top 50 of each color lists, separated into creatures and noncreatures.
The old thread can be found here: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=239017 F.A.Q. Q: What makes _________ a good enough card to be on the list? A: Check this thread here for some explanations on some cards. Be advised that it doesn't cover all cards and it also might cover some cards that aren't on the list right now. Q: How do I get a card not on here onto the list? A: You'll need to explain with convincing evidence why you think your proposed card should be added on. Avoid one-liners such as "deep sea kraken is a super cheap beatdown creature for blue amazing in multiplayer", because you won't win over many people. It's also highly recommended to explain why a certain card on the list should be taken off in place of yours to further strengthen your argument. Q: Is this list for 1v1 or multiplayer. A: It is for multiplayer EDH. Q: What about functional reprints of cards? A: All versions of the same card share only one slot. Q: Avatar of Woe is awesome, but why do you have it listed as #1 on black creatures? A: Each list is arranged in alphabetical order, NOT by power level. Q: Imperial Recruiter and Mana Drain are so expensive! Why are they on here? A: Because this list does not care about budget. Q: Why does green have 30 creatures and blue only 20? A: Green is more renowned for having powerful creatures, while blue is noted more for having better noncreature spells. As a result, their lists are adjusted slightly to compensate for that. The same can be seen in colorless/artifact noncreature spells and creatures. Q: __________ is such a savage piece of tech! Why isn't it there? A: This is a thread to showcase the best cards in EDH. Hidden gems and underplayed cards are still good, but that's not what this thread is about. Refer to the "Share Your Hidden Gems" thread for something like that. Q: Why are artifacts and colorless (Eldrazi) stuffed together? A: There is only but a small handful of colorless Eldrazi cards and not all of them see play in EDH necessarily, so making a list just for them is a bit redundant. Q: You barely update this thread! What gives? A: I try not to have these lists changing every week or so, as it's not all that great to have cards constantly in flux. We have a good idea of what's great and what isn't in Commander. At this point pretty much everyone knows the core staples. I also have a tendency to wait for a bit until adding cards from newly released sets so people actually get the chance to play with them to see their actual worth.
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Last edited by Surging Chaos; 02-09-2012 at 11:06 PM. |
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06-24-2010, 04:48 PM
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Who is Niv-Mizzet?
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Noncreatures
Spoiler:
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Last edited by Surging Chaos; 07-31-2012 at 11:53 PM. |
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1 Nof says thank you! |
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06-24-2010, 05:05 PM
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#4 |
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I'm an Artifcat. Meow.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
Posts: 1,637
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Can we also make suggestions to move certain creatures up above others?
For starters...Vesuvan Doppleganger and Vesuvan Shapeshifter are both better than Clone. For one extra mana, you get creatures that can change during your turn, after they've done their duty as something else (IE Duplicant). I would put them above Body Double even. Also, Sakashima the Imposter is by far the best Clone type creature since it can bounce itself.
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06-24-2010, 05:12 PM
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Who is Niv-Mizzet?
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I'm going to be doing a lot of edits to the list over time, so you might see a card or two disappear (like Clone) and some new stuff appear.
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06-24-2010, 05:15 PM
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Archmage
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 711
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with no tarmogoyf, noble hierarch, spellstutter sprite, dark confidant, tombstalker, heritage druid, nettle sentinel, lord of atlantis, serra avenger, wild nacatel, goblin lackey, goblin piledriver, progentious, goblin welder, dreadnought, landstone golem etc
Kind of have to disagree with your list
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06-24-2010, 05:18 PM
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Face Down and Phased Out
Moderator Rules Guru 
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This is EDH we're talking about, you realise. Most of the creatures you mention are entirely irrelevant. Although I must admit, I'm curious about the possibilities of Welder. I'll get back to you guys on this. Also, can we remove the creature/noncreature distinction yet? Given that EDH decks don't need to have any given ratio of one to the other, it seems a bit odd.
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06-24-2010, 05:19 PM
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I has a rock
[CMB] Clan Rep 
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I'm not sure I'd put Sakashima up there as killing Uril (and other problematic legends) is a very powerful option. Also, Sakashima's flavor of bounce does not dodge anything like Arcanis' does.
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Welder isn't bad though.
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06-24-2010, 06:36 PM
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#10 | |
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Plays Green
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,082
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I do have to wonder what going on with your land listings, because there seem to be a couple odd choices in (like lavaclaw reaches), when you're missing a better manland (celestial colonade) and other incredible lands (like winding canyons and phyrexian tower).
For consideration: -remove High Market +add Phyrexian Tower They both tap for colorless, and they both sacrifice a creature for their second ability but that's wholly irrelevant when comparing them. High market has bonus points because its ability shines as a great response to removal etc, whereas you may not have the ability to use the mana off of tower. But tower also acts as an enabler, being able to tap for more at the cost of a creature. Tower also has the nice advantage that it can be used in response to split second, isn't locked down by Tsabo's Web (I don't know about everyone else's meta, but this card sees play in my area) or Pithing Needle and it can generate mana for instant speed responses (and it has a nice functionality with volrath's stronghold). The only real 'downside' to using phyrexian tower is that it's legendary. -remove Lavaclaw Reaches +add Celestial Colonnade It's a bit harder to compare these two because they're in completely different colors, but Celestial Colonnade should be the clearly better manland for this list. Lavaclaw reaches is nice that it gets better as the game goes on longer, but without evasion or protection and a lousy 2 toughness, this land only really gets in there if the board is clear. With Colonnade, it comes in as a 4/4, flies, and it leaves itself untapped for responses. -remove Eye of Ugin +add Winding Canyons Eye of Ugin either requires a strong dedication to eldrazi in your deck, or it effectively is a land that doesn't tap for mana. It has the nice ability to tutor out a win condition when it gets late in the game, but at a steep cost (so basically if you don't play anything for a turn) Winding Canyons taps for mana, and basically allows a deck playing creatures to play draw-go. It's great as a pseudo-orerry (or teferi), allowing you to save mana to respond to your opponents' plays, then put creatures into play at end of turn so that your opponent has fewer chances to respond. (Take note that canyons can let you cast your general at end of turn as well) Edit: Quote:
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06-24-2010, 06:43 PM
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#11 |
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Who is Niv-Mizzet?
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Considering I have to add 11 more lands to get to 50, you can expect stuff like Phyrexian Tower and Celestial Colonnade to be in eventually.
Eye of Ugin doesn't exactly require a huge commitment to Eldrazi. It can fetch any colorless creature -- that means guys like Memnarch, Duplicant, and Sundering Titan are all fair game. Eye of Ugin can win games if left alone, and while you do need to dedicate some creatures to it be able to get the most mileage out of it, most control decks will be running those kinds of creatures to begin with. It also has the awesome side benefit of reducing the cost on All is Dust. I definitely agree that Phyrexian Tower is superior to High Market, but keep in mind that High Market is accessible to any deck, and pretty much every deck could use a sac outlet at the least to prevent their general from getting tucked. @ therestless: I too like Goblin Welder, and I can definitely see him getting slotted in somewhere. I'm a bit of a homer to him though, so I didn't want objectivity to get thrown out the window when I was making initial edits to DC's lists.
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06-24-2010, 06:47 PM
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#12 | |
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Plays Green
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,082
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Tower Dive Entertainment - A group of gamers showing the world what they're all about Level 1 Judge Thanks to Zaphod & Highlight Studios for the sig |
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06-24-2010, 08:06 PM
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#13 |
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うるさい! うるさい! うるさい!
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,983
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I don't think that there should be an "honourable mentions" list. I originally suggested "honourable mentions" in the earlier thread as a "holding cell" for decent suggestions (as decided by the prevailing OP). I felt that this was previously necessary as DC lacked the time to assess the suggestions individually without the assistance of fellow forumers. If you must, keep a "holding cell" for plausible suggestions but don't just create it for the sake of "five cards that just didn't make the cut" or you'd might as well name this thread "The Top 55 Card List".
Back to the business of suggesting good cards. I'd like to renominate Lighthouse Chronologist and Guile on the top 20 Blue Creature List. Lighthouse Chronologist is good because it is a fair threat in 1v1 play, forcing your opponent to use up a removal or face the prospect of "losing a turn" every turn cycle. Given that "time" -- i.e. extra turns -- are such a precious commodity in almost any formats and given that this card threatens to give you tonnes of it, I believe that this card fits the Top 50 bill. This may be especially true in EDH given that you tend to have large amount of mana to throw -- i.e. more mana than you will ever need for "countermagic mana". In multiplayer games, the prospect of taking (N - 1) extra turns (where N = number of players at the table) every turn cycle is very lucrative. As an asides, it should also be noted that both its casting cost and its leveller cost is aggressively costed. Guile is good because it is a good beater (it is aggressively costed), makes it more risky for your opponents to "test" if you have countermagic, etc. It also has combo potential (think Dovescape among others). I also propose that at least for nonlands, cards like Memnarch should be classified under "Blue Creature" rather than "colourless" given that it is only ever conceivable in blue EDH decks. |
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06-24-2010, 08:24 PM
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#14 |
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Experienced Mage
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 121
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Your list mentions top 25 multicolored creatures but only lists 20. Also the Black non-creature list isn't labeled correctly.
Some multicolored creatures to add (in no particular order): Rafiq of the Many Jhoira of the Ghitu Captain Sisay Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Uril, the Miststalker |
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06-24-2010, 10:26 PM
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#15 |
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Common Mage
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 43
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Mystic Remora is ok for a 1v1 game, targets 1 player, for each non creature spell.
However thoughtreflection is definitely the better card overall, generally if u have it for more than a turn your generally winning with more card draws. It goes with with any cards that say "draw a card". Sylvan library for example draw 6 put 2 back, or cycle lands draw 2 cards. Its a mana reflection for card draw. Even a Single Brainstorm makes your hand goes nuts. Even better with any jace. I have even gone nuts with it with timewister/ or timespiral, each other player draws 7 and i draw 14. |
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