On average two to three new cubes get posted here on MTG salvation each and every day. Most of these threads consist of nothing but a list of 360-720 cards. And as a result they get 5-6 posts before they fade into obscurity. I know I've spent quite a bit of time on my cube and I want to give it the best chance of showing it off.
I like to think that my cube thread is a good example of what a thread should look like, so I have made a FAQ to presenting your cube better.
What to include
The most obvious thing that you have to include is a list of your cube.
It is also important to somehow classify what you are doing with your cube. One of the posters here (WTwlf123 I believe) developed a simple list that you can post at the front of your thread. I encourage you to use that list. The list will be included in the .txt documents attached to this post.
Pictures or No Pictures?
If you have the ability to, always try to include pictures of your cube. Many people (like me) understand a visual presentation much better than a text-only presentation. Pictures are not a replacement for a well designed thread, but they do add quite a bit.
Formatting
This is one of the big things that gets people. Most people are decent enough to split the list of cards into the 8 big sections (White, blue, black, red, green, artifact, multicolor, land). But after that there are quite are two main ways you can sub-divide your cube from that point. And I suggest that you do at-least one of them. It really isn't important how you divide the information as long as you do infact divide the information.
In both sorting methods you should separate your Spells from your creatures. Then divide your creatures into the corresponding converted mana cost.
In the first method you also seperate your spells into their respective converted mana cost. The main advantage to this is you can easily see the mana curve for your entire cube.
In the second method you separate your spells into their respective spell types. Instants with Instants, Sorceries with Sorceries. This is the method that I prefer to use. I find it easier to read.
After that most people chose to separate the Multicolored cards into sections by color pairs.
Also, I can not stress this enough. Learn how to use deck, card, and spoiler tags. They are quite simple to use
If you want to creature a spoiler simply place the text in between the following tags (without the *'s of course)
[spoiler*]Text[*/spoiler]
That will appear like this when you post
Text
If you want to have a spoiler inside of the spoiler simply wrap the entire thing in another set of spoiler tags.
[spoiler*]This is how it will look
[spoiler*]Like this[*/spoiler][*/spoiler]
That will look like this when you post
This is how it will look
like this
If you wish to have the spoiler have a tile like presented in the first spoiler, simply replace the first [*spoiler] tag with [*spoiler=Spoiler Title]
If you are able to master spoiler tags, Card tags are quite simple.
Now lets say you want to divide up your list, like having all your 1 casting cost creatures by themselves. That is simple. Any text without a number will be bolded and not linked to. So for example.
[*deck]
One CMC
1 Savannah Lions
1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
1 Elite Vanguard
[*/card]
Now lets say you want to leave a comment after a card, this is simple. Any text written after a card name but put into parenthesies will not be linked to. For instance
Correct Order
This might just be a petpeave of mine, but know the proper order of magic colors. The correct order is
White
Blue
Black
Red
Green
Just look at the back of a magic card for this one. It is also the order they place cards in
Try including some of these things to Spice up your list
*A list of common cube cards that you are not playing.
*A defense of some of the unusual cards you are playing.
*An introduction and explanation of what you want your overall cube and each of the individual sections to accomplish.
*A few sample packs where forum goers can list the picks that they would take. You can either use true random packs, or doctor the packs to make them more interesting.
*A photo shoot of your cards, we cubers love to see some pimp.
*A changelog so people can see how your cube has evolved over time.
Thanks for posting this man. Look under Formatting. You repeated yourself a bit there in the second and third paragraphs.
I really agree with you about the pictures. For some reason I can identify with a cube way more if there are pictures of it. Just a list of cards seems so sterile.
Nope, they describe different sorting methods, one where you separate your spell section by CMC. And the other where you seperate your spell section by spell type.
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Calvin and Hobbes Cube Tutor
While we're picking the nits out of an otherwise excellent post, your proposed order of multicolored cards feels a bit off to me. I always treat WUBRG like the alphabet, which means that the order is (due to the way mana symbols are ordered on the cards) WU, WB, UB, UR, BR, BG, RG, RW, GW, GU.
But then, preference, right? I just don't see how you can call any given order 'correct' or 'incorrect'.
While we're picking the nits out of an otherwise excellent post, your proposed order of multicolored cards feels a bit off to me. I always treat WUBRG like the alphabet, which means that the order is (due to the way mana symbols are ordered on the cards) WU, WB, UB, UR, BR, BG, RG, RW, GW, GU.
This is the order they placed duals, so that's the order that I have always said was right.
It does seem that the order wizard used for Alara Reborn is
WU
UB
BR
RG
GW
WB
UR
BG
RW
GU
So the first color in the allied order is White, then blue, then black, then red, then green.
And the first color in the enemy order is WHite, then blue, then black, then red, then green.
Look at the order they printed Alara Reborn in (by collector's number). It agrees with what I said.
So it does. I can't argue with that. In that case, I ask only that you put this as the justification in your OP, not the background colors of dual lands.
I don't think it really proves anything though. For each dual land, there is no option as to which color goes on which side. For the order of dual-color cards, there are lots of options. As far as I see it, the color cross-fading could just be a pretty coincidence.
Pringlesman is right; this is something I intuited on my own, with the collector's numbering schematic driving the final nail home.
Listing all of the White colour pairs, then Blue pairs ... etc. is asymmetric, as you'll end up with a 4 x 3 x 2 x 1 pattern. Flowing from colour to colour, allied to enemy is more harmonious and geometrically *correct.* Anything else would be <spock>illogical</spock>. However, it's a really nitty point, in the grand scheme of things. On a related note, the obvious shard ordering is Bant, Esper, Grixis, Jund, Naya.
Thanks for the template... maybe now I'll get around to typing my cube in at some point.
Just because you prefer it doesn't mean it's correct. If someone prefers alphabetical order or anything. I follow the reborn ordering for my gold section, but that doesn't make flowing pairs or viperesque's order any less valid, nor would standard English alphabetical order be any less valid, which is how I group my colors.
Edit: I do think that suggesting a standard format, like WUBRG, is good because it makes it easier to navigate other people's threads, but I don't think it's anything to get worked up about. In general people who rabidly insist on critiquing other people need to calm the bleep down.
When it's finished, i'll tack the first post onto the Information/Rules sticky, if that's allright with you.
As for the color order, that's just CDO(*) kicking in. Wooberg for the main colors is pretty much established, but the color order for the pairs or even triplets isn't.
(*)That's just like OCD, but with the letters in alphabetical order. Just like it should be.
Like I said even WUBRG for main colors is established but not universal.
I suppose technically Wizards has not said this is the order, but to me it makes sense to put allied pairs, then enemy pairs, then allied triplets, then enemy triplets starting with white. I don't know how you can say WUBRG isn't established - look at the casting cost of any 5-color card.
the purpose of this thread, unless i'm misunderstanding, is to make cube lists more easily read and analyzed. this will help get more responses and will help people give more complete advice. WU, UB, BR, etc followed by WB, UR, BG, etc is how wotc does it and the order is 100% logical. of course you can do it how you want, but standardizing would make it easier to look at, wouldn't it? it's not a huge deal but it's the more correct way to do things.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
I don't think it matters what order you list your gold section in, so long as you label each individual section at the top with the combination it refers to.
I don't think it matters what order you list your gold section in, so long as you label each individual section at the top with the combination it refers to.
+1 to this.
Although standardized seem neat and dandy, it seems a bit unnecessary to me. In the end, we are still looking at the same cards divided the same way, only in a different order of color pair.
My mind isn't auto-set on seeing UW cards first when looking at multicolor sections. I look at the divided/sorted color pairs and associates that with cards I play myself on those same color(s).
Personally, I like putting things alphabetically. Black, Blue, Green, Red and White etc.
Ya, I do my order in my head differently. I do WUBRG, like the color wheel on the back of the card in clockwise order. Then I do the friendly pairs the same way: WU, UB, BR, RG, GW. But then it gets funky in my brain. I order the enemy pairs in the same way (clockwise on the "color dial", starting with white) WB being the 1st, then WR (following the wheel). Then White's enemy colors are done, and it's onto blue. UR then UG (following the wheel, both of blue's enemy pairs. Then the next color on the wheel is Black, and BG is the last combination. That's just how my crazy brain sorts the colors in my head, using the color wheel.
It does not seem like Wizards has a consensus on this.
can you elaborate? because from what i've seen they either sort cards alphabetically (not grouped by colors) or sort WU, UB, BR, RG, GW, WB, UR, BG, RW, GU. and this follows a simple logical pattern:
it's as straightforward and logical as can be. sorting enemy pairs this way is consistent with how they sort allied pairs. you just skip a color instead of pairing immediately adjacent colors.
i'm not arguing that you must do it this way. but it's clear to me that it's the official and most logical way. have i missed some recent inconsistencies?
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
I guess that we could add that some threads die-out after a while because the person who posted it doesn't update it or make changes that push towards discussions. The fact that some lists are hard to read is a major problem that many members of this forum pointed out to many newcomers. Eidolon helped me put my list in a lisible format instead of an Word list posted like a continuous text.
Adding pictures and posting what new pimpness-goodness you got for your cube is also a good way to get a few extra people to check out your thread from time to time. After a while, people will keep checking your list even if nobody is leaving comments.
Silly formatting stuff, if you wanted to neaten things up..
[c]Zoologist[/c] = [c]Zoologist[/c]
I looks neater than with the obligatory (remember to remove the *, silly!)
I've been wondering how this was done!
Also, to chime in on the ordering of the multicolor cards thing, I tend to over complicate things. (This drives my girlfriend batty.) I order my allied colors pretty much like everyone else (WU, UB, BR, RG, GW). Then to keep the colors flowing smoothly next would come WR, RU, UG, GB, BW (in my head). This keeps the last color in one pair on par with the first color in the next pair. Except, that's not how it's printed on the cards. It's not WR, it's RW, which means I did it backwards. I didn't realize that until I had already been sorting them this way forever. Now it feels weird to do it differently.
Excellent write up, though, Pringles. I need to do a little revamp of my own cube OP. I'm gonna update the pics after I finish with the M11 update. When I do that, I think I'll also update the OP to include wtwlf's handy little quick reference guide and some of the information you mention here (like a defense for the inclusion of strange cards or an explanation for the lack of a popular card). I'm also completely jealous of both your and wtwlf's cube banners.
The only thing I don't think is necessary is a change log. I guess it's nice to have and I kind of wish I had started that when I first started my cube thread, but I feel like it's a little late for it now.
On average two to three new cubes get posted here on MTG salvation each and every day. Most of these threads consist of nothing but a list of 360-720 cards. And as a result they get 5-6 posts before they fade into obscurity. I know I've spent quite a bit of time on my cube and I want to give it the best chance of showing it off.
I like to think that my cube thread is a good example of what a thread should look like, so I have made a FAQ to presenting your cube better.
What to include
The most obvious thing that you have to include is a list of your cube.
It is also important to somehow classify what you are doing with your cube. One of the posters here (WTwlf123 I believe) developed a simple list that you can post at the front of your thread. I encourage you to use that list. The list will be included in the .txt documents attached to this post.
Pictures or No Pictures?
If you have the ability to, always try to include pictures of your cube. Many people (like me) understand a visual presentation much better than a text-only presentation. Pictures are not a replacement for a well designed thread, but they do add quite a bit.
Formatting
This is one of the big things that gets people. Most people are decent enough to split the list of cards into the 8 big sections (White, blue, black, red, green, artifact, multicolor, land). But after that there are quite are two main ways you can sub-divide your cube from that point. And I suggest that you do at-least one of them. It really isn't important how you divide the information as long as you do infact divide the information.
In both sorting methods you should separate your Spells from your creatures. Then divide your creatures into the corresponding converted mana cost.
In the first method you also seperate your spells into their respective converted mana cost. The main advantage to this is you can easily see the mana curve for your entire cube.
In the second method you separate your spells into their respective spell types. Instants with Instants, Sorceries with Sorceries. This is the method that I prefer to use. I find it easier to read.
After that most people chose to separate the Multicolored cards into sections by color pairs.
Also, I can not stress this enough. Learn how to use deck, card, and spoiler tags. They are quite simple to use
If you want to creature a spoiler simply place the text in between the following tags (without the *'s of course)
[spoiler*]Text[*/spoiler]
That will appear like this when you post
If you want to have a spoiler inside of the spoiler simply wrap the entire thing in another set of spoiler tags.
[spoiler*]This is how it will look
[spoiler*]Like this[*/spoiler][*/spoiler]
That will look like this when you post
If you wish to have the spoiler have a tile like presented in the first spoiler, simply replace the first [*spoiler] tag with [*spoiler=Spoiler Title]
If you are able to master spoiler tags, Card tags are quite simple.
Simply wrap the name of the card in card tags.
[card*]Black Lotus[*/card]
Will appear as
Black Lotus
IF you wish to have the text same something else, but link to the card simply use the following format.
[card*=Black Lotus]This thing is Awesome![/*card]
will appear as
This thing is Awesome!
And finally, deck tags
Deck tags are simple, but require a bit of specific formatting.
First of all type up the list of cards you want in the following format
1 Card
1 Card
1 Card
and then wrap the text in [*deck] and [*/deck]
so the above list would be written
[*deck]
1 Card
1 Card
1 Card
[/*deck]
that would appear as
1 card
1 Card
[*deck]
One CMC
1 Savannah Lions
1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
1 Elite Vanguard
[*/card]
Will appear as
1 Savannah Lions
1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
1 Elite Vanguard
[*deck]
One CMC
1 Savannah Lions (ROAR!)
[*/deck]
Will appear as
1 Savanah Lions (ROAR!)
So this
[*Deck=White Creatures]
1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
1 Savanah Lions (ROAR!)
1 Elite Vanguard
[*/deck]
Will turn into
1 Savanah Lions (ROAR!)
1 Elite Vanguard
Correct Order
This might just be a petpeave of mine, but know the proper order of magic colors. The correct order is
White
Blue
Black
Red
Green
Just look at the back of a magic card for this one. It is also the order they place cards in
Try including some of these things to Spice up your list
*A list of common cube cards that you are not playing.
*A defense of some of the unusual cards you are playing.
*An introduction and explanation of what you want your overall cube and each of the individual sections to accomplish.
*A few sample packs where forum goers can list the picks that they would take. You can either use true random packs, or doctor the packs to make them more interesting.
*A photo shoot of your cards, we cubers love to see some pimp.
*A changelog so people can see how your cube has evolved over time.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
I really agree with you about the pictures. For some reason I can identify with a cube way more if there are pictures of it. Just a list of cards seems so sterile.
Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
Just seems weird is all.
Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards
Gotcha, I edited it for ease of reading.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
But then, preference, right? I just don't see how you can call any given order 'correct' or 'incorrect'.
This is the order they placed duals, so that's the order that I have always said was right.
It does seem that the order wizard used for Alara Reborn is
WU
UB
BR
RG
GW
WB
UR
BG
RW
GU
So the first color in the allied order is White, then blue, then black, then red, then green.
And the first color in the enemy order is WHite, then blue, then black, then red, then green.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
So it does. I can't argue with that. In that case, I ask only that you put this as the justification in your OP, not the background colors of dual lands.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
Just because you prefer it doesn't mean it's correct. If someone prefers alphabetical order or anything. I follow the reborn ordering for my gold section, but that doesn't make flowing pairs or viperesque's order any less valid, nor would standard English alphabetical order be any less valid, which is how I group my colors.
Edit: I do think that suggesting a standard format, like WUBRG, is good because it makes it easier to navigate other people's threads, but I don't think it's anything to get worked up about. In general people who rabidly insist on critiquing other people need to calm the bleep down.
Like I said even WUBRG for main colors is established but not universal.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
+1 to this.
Although standardized seem neat and dandy, it seems a bit unnecessary to me. In the end, we are still looking at the same cards divided the same way, only in a different order of color pair.
My mind isn't auto-set on seeing UW cards first when looking at multicolor sections. I look at the divided/sorted color pairs and associates that with cards I play myself on those same color(s).
Personally, I like putting things alphabetically. Black, Blue, Green, Red and White etc.
My Cube Blog @theCubeMiser on Twitter
Heathen!
I updated the first post getting rid of the bit about multicolor order. It does not seem like Wizards has a consensus on this.
I also updated the blank thread. It looks like the finished version I had didn't save and reverted to a half finished save.
If anyone else has suggestions of either things to add or parts that don't read right, lmk and I'll fix it.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
can you elaborate? because from what i've seen they either sort cards alphabetically (not grouped by colors) or sort WU, UB, BR, RG, GW, WB, UR, BG, RW, GU. and this follows a simple logical pattern:
WUBRG --> WUBRG --> WUBRG --> WUBRG --> WUBRG --> WUBRG
WUBRG --> WUBRG --> WUBRG--> WUBRG --> WUBRG --> WUBRG
it's as straightforward and logical as can be. sorting enemy pairs this way is consistent with how they sort allied pairs. you just skip a color instead of pairing immediately adjacent colors.
i'm not arguing that you must do it this way. but it's clear to me that it's the official and most logical way. have i missed some recent inconsistencies?
LOL @ Pringles
I also happen to prefer alphabetical order, both for the color sections and color combinations. So sue me.
Adding pictures and posting what new pimpness-goodness you got for your cube is also a good way to get a few extra people to check out your thread from time to time. After a while, people will keep checking your list even if nobody is leaving comments.
Great adding for the new comers Pringles.
360 Cards Sphere: The Junk Cube
I've been wondering how this was done!
Also, to chime in on the ordering of the multicolor cards thing, I tend to over complicate things. (This drives my girlfriend batty.) I order my allied colors pretty much like everyone else (WU, UB, BR, RG, GW). Then to keep the colors flowing smoothly next would come WR, RU, UG, GB, BW (in my head). This keeps the last color in one pair on par with the first color in the next pair. Except, that's not how it's printed on the cards. It's not WR, it's RW, which means I did it backwards. I didn't realize that until I had already been sorting them this way forever. Now it feels weird to do it differently.
Excellent write up, though, Pringles. I need to do a little revamp of my own cube OP. I'm gonna update the pics after I finish with the M11 update. When I do that, I think I'll also update the OP to include wtwlf's handy little quick reference guide and some of the information you mention here (like a defense for the inclusion of strange cards or an explanation for the lack of a popular card). I'm also completely jealous of both your and wtwlf's cube banners.
The only thing I don't think is necessary is a change log. I guess it's nice to have and I kind of wish I had started that when I first started my cube thread, but I feel like it's a little late for it now.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!