I saw Knight Exemplar in the M11 spoilers, and I couldn't resist. I've wanted to build a tribal knights deck for so long. I'm aware that this probably will be more casual than competitive, but I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised.
Knight Exemplar is actually a pretty powerful lord for knights, but knights have traditionally lacked the synergy and support cards that competitive tribes usually get, like the ones for Merfolk and Goblins. You know the ones I mean. Even soldiers have more synergy, however, the one thing that knights have going for them is that they can be powerful on their own.
They usually come with an efficient cost, first strike, and some other ability like protection, exalted, flying (Leonin Skyhunter, White Shield Crusader), etc., before lord effects even occur. Student of Warfare is another card in the knight tribe that doesn't even need a lord to be powerful. They also work well with equipment, namely Umezawa's Jitte. But then again, pretty much anything with a power over 0 works well with Jitte.
Now, I don't think this makes up for the lack of Goblin Ringleader/Goblin Matron-esque (and others) cards in the Knight tribe, but it means that perhaps we can start to at least consider a Knight tribal deck, with the hope that better knight cards will be printed soon, maybe even in M11. I for one am going to give it a shot, and even if it doesn't stand much of a chance now, I'm hoping it will only get better over time, and that WOTC will continue to support Knights as a tribe. Also, this deck will port over nicely into OverExtended, if that rumor proves true. The only card I'd need to replace is MoR, which I'd probably do with Benevolent Bodyguard.
I run a full complement of O-Rings because there are just so many cards that can stop this deck in it's tracks (Humility, Counterbalance, Propaganda/Ghostly Prison, etc.), and O-Ring provides an answer to a lot of them. Wilt-Leaf Liege is the second "Knight Lord", since it pumps all my knights (not knight-specific, but still) and is a knight itself. Student of Warfare is a powerhouse on it's own if it lives, and it's chances are actually decent with Mother of Runes and Knight Exemplar backup. And Jitte...do I really need to explain that?
Sigiled Paladin is a personal choice, but that is kind of subject to change. I chose it because this deck may benefit from attacking with one creature and holding back a wall of first strikers for defense. I also realize that I may not want to attack with Exemplars much, so there's a decent chance I may want to attack with only one creature, and this deck is more aggro/control than straight up aggro. But still, I'll have to see how that one works. I'm not wholly sold on Paladin yet.
Divining Top is in because white is sorely lacking in card draw, and Top+fetches is a pseudo-draw engine. Knight of the White Orchid is card I've wanted to find a place for in legacy, and now I think it's finally found a home where it's not overshadowed by Serra Avenger, Stoneforge Mystic, etc. It's a knight that will fetch a land and accelerate my mana, which I think is pretty good, at least in a Knight tribal deck. KO2 and Top also allow me to run fewer lands than I might otherwise have to include.
This is kind of a first draft of the deck, so some cards might get changed and some numbers might get tweaked. I am, however, pretty set on keeping it mono-white. I think it will be much more consistent and much more resilient this way. As of now, there are no Wasteland targets and no chance of getting color-screwed, which I like.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently playing:
In Modern:
:symu::symw::symr: Holy Rollers (Geist Tempo)
It seems like all of your creatures will be outclassing most of the opp's critters. I'd like to see how this deck plays out against Goblins and other aggro decks.
I can imagine the game being high in your favor if you stick a Knight Exemplar. Anything running Wrath, and other board sweeper effects will hate you, not to mention you can block goyfs all day.
At least add a Karakas or two to improve mathcup vs. Reanimator w/Legends. I'd run 4Flagstones of Trokair with or without Armaggedon. Wasteland proof Free deck thinning if you put out two of them with no loss of life and not any worse than pain fetches vs. Blood/Magus of the Moon. Also good with Reliquary Knight pump
Green would Give you Choke on the sideboard for U matchup & compost vs. black. Also Krosan Grip vs. some of your worst matchups
Stoneforge mystic could and in my opinion should replace 1 jitte. This would give you a toolbox option if you want to play Sword of Fire/Ice or Light/Shadow(awesome in case of mirror). I would maybe replace one O-ring with a maindeck Sword of Fire and Ice. If you do run Sword of F/I, I would use white knight over silver because pro URB that draws and deals direct damage is pretty funny.
EDIT: I would try to fit two SF mystic maindeck
Then again this all might be terrible suggestions because it is 2 AM for me and I am extremely tired.
How many times do I have to keep repeating this?
Vial aggro decks depend on having a strong 1-drop creature to back them up. Merfs have Cursecatcher and Gobs have Lackey. Knights have... http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&subtype=+[knight]&cmc=+=[1]
Whoopie.
Next order of business is disruption. For white decks, you have Waste and Port, just like the Gobbos. Your removal options are much better than Either Merfs or Gobs though.
Card Advantage: Merfs have Standstill, Gobs have Matron and Ringleader. You have... Carom? It's just not going to happen in white, and you're going to run out of gas really quickly.
Quite simply, this won't happen. It's like Vial Vampires: you just don't have what it takes in the form of CA on a stick and the all-important 1-drop.
EDIT: someone just suggested SPLASHING black for Haakon, which requires 2 black mana. That's really no longer a splash of black mana, especially with the masses of wastelands running about.
EDIT2: Mom could almost be considered a must-answer. ALMOST. If she was, Vial Soldiers would've happened already.
With W/G knights you get better sideboard than goblins vs. combo such as runed halo And bigger threats than merfolk with built in evasion/protection. Most merfolk lists I've been playing lately have made the white splash just to get their hands on better removal. This deck could potentially run 4 or more paths or Stp main and the others on the side. With the U tutor gone, creature decks are going to be Knee-jerk popular choice for awhile.
I would agree that 4 Moms should be maindeck.
For CA there are options like Abeyance and stoneforge mystic
EDIT: and Knight of the white orchid Is usually Card advantage/excel also.
EDIT: and for the record stoneforge finding a jitte = Good game vs. fish.
Edit: green also gives an awesome turn 1 drop noble hierarch
Also, The Knights evasion/protection far outclasses the soldiers
I kind of like the Armageddon Knights route, I think I may run 4 Knight of the Holy Nimbus and 4 Armageddon, in place of the 4 Lieges. I'll also run 3 Chrome Mox and 3-4 Flagstones. I'll also take out the 2 Divining Tops for 1 more MoR and 1 more land. So the new list would look like:
I'm keeping Path because of it's synergy with KO2, and also for the fact that since I'm going to Armageddon anyway, I'll nullify any drawbacks of using it in the early game, and after I Armageddon I can use it on my own creatures if necessary. Student of Warfare stays in because I should have at least 1-2 mana even after I Armageddon, and that should be enough to make her useful. And I added in 2 Karakas to deal with the Reanimator matchup.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently playing:
In Modern:
:symu::symw::symr: Holy Rollers (Geist Tempo)
There have been a few discussions about Knights over the past few years. There have been some interesting reassignments of creature types to help, and some good knights printed recently. To a large degree, fearmeordie is on the right path. Disruption is king of Legacy. Don't bother building a deck that is not thick with it, unless it is called Zoo.
Haakon is a decent choice imo. However, in my experience with the deck it just did not have big enough dudes to dominate the field. And it did not have anything else going for it. The Haakon engine is the only thing you have to manage some sort of angle. If you are going down that path, I really like 3 colors with either blue or green. Of them, I prefer green.
I am wary about using creatures with cmc greater than 3 because of how important it is to be able to vial in Haakon if the opponent can neuter your grave yard. Even something as obviously powerful as Kinsbaile Cavalier I am unsure about. But then there may be another version w/out Vials. Think about this deck:
EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I like Nameless Inversion in this deck. Swords to Plowshares will remove Haakon from the game, but you can respond by Inverting him to send him to the GY. You can also pump a Knight of the Reliquary perhaps twice if he is not blocked for an extra 6 damage. Once weakness is definitely the inability to handle noncreature permanents. It may be necessary to use Vindicate.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Kinsbaile Cavalier. It maybe have a little higher mana curve that the rest of your cards. But once it drops all your stuff will hit like a ton of bricks.
I am wary about using creatures with cmc greater than 3 because of how important it is to be able to vial in Haakon if the opponent can neuter your grave yard. Even something as obviously powerful as Kinsbaile Cavalier I am unsure about. But then there may be another version w/out Vials.
If I could afford the cards in that list, I would probably take those suggestions, Finn. They are good suggestions, and if I could I would probably go w/b/g with Haakon, KotR, Entombs, (maybe Pernicious Deed and Vindicate, too) and maybe build a Knight-Rock style deck, which is actually a pretty cool concept. Right now, though, mono-white is pretty much the only option open to me, and I'm hoping I can make it work. I can't get Entombs, KotRs, or dual lands. I have fetches, but those aren't really enough to go into another color.
Kinsbaile Cavalier is a card that I want to like, and I card that I would love if it was a 2/4 or even a 2/3. But a 2 back end just dies to too much stuff, and I'm a little leery of including it. If I did, I'd also have to drop the Armageddons, which I don't want to do as of yet.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently playing:
In Modern:
:symu::symw::symr: Holy Rollers (Geist Tempo)
Finn: Stillmoon is a tank. Sure, Zoo has 10-11 ways to kill it, but that's half their removal, and Jitte. Also, I like Stoneforge a lot, since it for Jitte can also kill opposing Jittes. Useful.
basilisk collar with all the first strike that knights can throw around could be good. especially vs. zoo. If you are going the armaggedon route, this might be a nice choice, especially if you add the sf mystic toolbox option.
Also has the small bonus of not being killed by another one entering the battlefield.
@Clownbaby, you can't really call being a legend a problem with Jitte. Think of it this way: If the opponent has Jitte going, would you rather have one yourself or a Collar? OK, now what if he does not have one? [In most cases ] would you rather have a Jitte or a Collar?
@EnemyWithin, I don't want to drive you away, but it is hard to continue discussing a competitive deck when entire strategies have to be disregarded for budget concerns. In the casual forum, that is the norm. In here we want to build the best deck possible, barring nothing. I don't have some of those cards either.
@Finn: Okay, I understand, maybe I shouldn't worry so much about budget concerns either. I can at least proxy up an expensive list and trade for it piece by piece or sell off a chunk of my collection to build it. Maybe it's worth it to build a better deck. So with that in mind, I think W/B/G is probably the best color combination. Here's something I had in mind, without budget considerations:
This is just kind of a rough draft I came up with in 10 minutes, I'd love to see other people's takes on it.
I have also continued to develop my mono-white Knight deck, which although I'm considering a budget-free 3-color build, that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm giving up on the mono-white build. I plan on working on and developing both. Here's what I have for the mono-white build right now:
So far it seems like it's doing okay, I think 20 is the correct number of lands considering I have KO2s and Vials, but it may be a little too low. I do now have a disruption/mana denial package in the form of Rishadan Ports, Armageddon, and to an extend Knight of the Holy Nimbus. I also have a decent amount of removal with Path, O-Ring, Jitte, and Collar. I moved Karakas to the sideboard because I want to have at least 10-11 basics, and Karakas is just too easy to Wasteland. I might stick 1 in the main, however. If I increase the number of lands, Karakas will be what I add.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently playing:
In Modern:
:symu::symw::symr: Holy Rollers (Geist Tempo)
@Finn: I concede the point, jitte kill is very important. I simply ment 1 cost easier than 2 cost if trying the armageddon route with the deck, but I guess you would still need to pay the 2 to equip. I agree jitte is the better choice, however, both in play together sounds fun.
@EnemyWithin: Love the deck ideas. It will be fun to see if this really does take when m11 drops. I will be trying a version of this as well. If going BWG, I wonder if buried alive could or would be usable using Haakon. Costs 3, but tutor up nasty threats. It would give the option of going toolbox with protection knights like silver,white,black, cavalier.
EDIT: buried alive would give you the option of dropping vials. Could replace entomb with these. Add another 1 Haakon, 1 Karakas and still leaves two spots for consideration. Maybe a third stoneforge mystic and 1 nameless inversion like Finn suggested. Being able to play nameless inversion repeatedly from the grave is pretty sweet! or maybe 4 entomb and +2 buried alive and +1 karakas +1 nameless
I love the variant with Knight of the reliquary. Kotr is such a beating in this format that I feel the variant with reliquary maybe the best variant. Although, I could be wrong since I haven't really tested this yet but I want to though whenever I have the time.
With that said, how has the 20 lands and 4 Aether Vials been treating you? Did you ever find you wanted to drop more lands to play more creatures at any given time?
I fleshed out the lands to help me make the case for the design. I have actually been testing a similar design with a different group of creatures, so I am pretty familiar with the way it plays. The way to play the deck is to Entomb Life from the Loam (or simply cast it from your hand). And dredge. As long as Haakon is in play, the only things in the entire deck that are not available from the graveyard are Swords to Plowshares and Thoughtseize. Your cycle lands are like Ancestral Recalls that can't be countered and keep coming back. So you dredge, cycle a land to get Loam back, and dredge again. In the spirit of protecting Haakon, a copy of Glory may be perfect because an opponent who can keep him out of play for even a few turns is going to be ahead of you on tempo. And it is completely dependent on the graveyard. So that has to be considered, and eventually handled.
Hey Finn, have you considered 2-3 Realms Uncharted to help your land toolbox? I know you have Life from the Loam to dredge stuff out, but that might end up being a little slow. Not sure what you could take out, the list seems pretty tight, but maybe it's something you could consider if you find room.
@Cecilia: Hey, it's good to see you too. I never thought about Mutavault, but swinging with a 3/3 indestructible manland could be an interesting win con. I don't think I'd want to run 4 since even the mono color build is kind of color intensive, but 2 would probably be the right number. Makes me kind of sad I traded mine away, but I can get more fairly easily. Horizon Canopy might actually serve as an additional option to the cycle lands in Finn's list. I'm not sure whether they'd be better or worse, though, I've never really played a deck like this before. I guess the pro is that you can play it and still draw the card, and the con is that you have to play it in order to draw the card from it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently playing:
In Modern:
:symu::symw::symr: Holy Rollers (Geist Tempo)
How can any of the green splash lists not be better with Tarmogoyf included? Yes, you can't get him out of the graveyard with Haakon, but he's still huge when he lands because of LftL, except for early on when he's a better wall against aggro than the 3cc creatures that won't have hit the board yet in a lot of cases.
I wouldn't let Wilt-Liege get too far away from the thought. He deserves a place in at least the sideboard, for running against Hymn to Tourach, and other discard.
Of course that's a meta decision too...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm just not happy unless I can smash face with Demigods.
@Cecilia: Hey, it's good to see you too. I never thought about Mutavault, but swinging with a 3/3 indestructible manland could be an interesting win con. I don't think I'd want to run 4 since even the mono color build is kind of color intensive, but 2 would probably be the right number. Makes me kind of sad I traded mine away, but I can get more fairly easily. Horizon Canopy might actually serve as an additional option to the cycle lands in Finn's list. I'm not sure whether they'd be better or worse, though, I've never really played a deck like this before. I guess the pro is that you can play it and still draw the card, and the con is that you have to play it in order to draw the card from it.
I agree with you on the horizon canopy, mutavaults and the cycling lands. They definitely look good on paper that's for sure. We should just throw together a list and just test that to see. I'll see if I can come up with something whenever I have time again.
Edit: I just did some testing against merfolks and I won pretty easy about 3 out of the 4 times I played against it. Then I lost to this weird survival deck with elvish pipers, emrakuls, natural orders, and progenitus. I think that deck had my name written all over it since I was playing Knights. I also played against 40+ Lands and went 2-1 versus it. Topdecking an Armageddon felt pretty good in game 3.
I haven't really had time to mess with a green splash yet and since I can't play m11 yet on magic workstation, I decided to skip out on the knight lord temporarily.
Here is the list, of course, it went through some changes after I tested the build.
I am considering Paladin en-vec, although, I don't really like him all that much versus zoo especially since he's only a 2/2 despite of him having protection from red.
I happen to like Wilt-leaf though since I always seem to run into all of the black suicide and eva green decks on mws as of late.
I have been working on monowhite knights since a little before the m11 release and I think I found a sweet balance that will let the knights compete with the other tribes out there.
The problem is knights just dont get big enough to be able to keep up mid to late game with only 1 lord. And they dont have the ability to swarm like gobs, soldiers, merfolk, and elves can.
After much play testing and tweaking I think I turned this apparent weakness into a strength of the knights.
By equiping every/any creature I drop with any equip I may have out its fairly easy to get opponents to use all of their removal real quick, and often prematurely (such as on a swinging jitte equiped stoneforge) This combined with the fact that almost every deck in the format trys to dump their hand ASAP (silly tempo decks) anyways, this creates the perfect environment to play a Wrath of God (and no, I have never done this with exemplar out... sigh, one day...). Chances are they are top decking, and hopefully I held a creature (if not likelihood is Ill draw one (and it doesn't even matter who)) Play said knight, equip, and begin the Beating!
Knights thrive in the top deck, between the white orchid, fetches, and 4 flagstones I thin my library of land real nicely. Stoneforge mystic as a tool box makes the knights super versatile, and thins out the equipments really well too (and she can be recycled with SoLS) I have won games top decking her after a wrath. Vial her in tutor, drop and equip the sword of vengeance swing 3, next turn equip everything else you have out already on her, namely the collar. With all this thinning normally my draw consists of first striking knights, or removal. It plays really smoothly.
Although I have had a rough time deciding a sideboard... I would really like to fit 2-3 more swords to plowshares in the side. And possibly a few Paladin En-Vec
I believe I would honestly play the Swords maindeck over the paths. Giving them lands is often the last thing I want to do and I haven't seen too many decks that giving life too will hurt you.
Given that your entire force has first strike, you really should be able to stall out just about any aggro deck on the defensive. All you have to do is go find the appropriate protection knight (or evasive, depending) and attach an equipment to him and swing 1 at a time. The others can hang back and really ruin combat. That, however, is how I play a bunch of first strikers.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Knight Exemplar is actually a pretty powerful lord for knights, but knights have traditionally lacked the synergy and support cards that competitive tribes usually get, like the ones for Merfolk and Goblins. You know the ones I mean. Even soldiers have more synergy, however, the one thing that knights have going for them is that they can be powerful on their own.
They usually come with an efficient cost, first strike, and some other ability like protection, exalted, flying (Leonin Skyhunter, White Shield Crusader), etc., before lord effects even occur. Student of Warfare is another card in the knight tribe that doesn't even need a lord to be powerful. They also work well with equipment, namely Umezawa's Jitte. But then again, pretty much anything with a power over 0 works well with Jitte.
Now, I don't think this makes up for the lack of Goblin Ringleader/Goblin Matron-esque (and others) cards in the Knight tribe, but it means that perhaps we can start to at least consider a Knight tribal deck, with the hope that better knight cards will be printed soon, maybe even in M11. I for one am going to give it a shot, and even if it doesn't stand much of a chance now, I'm hoping it will only get better over time, and that WOTC will continue to support Knights as a tribe. Also, this deck will port over nicely into OverExtended, if that rumor proves true. The only card I'd need to replace is MoR, which I'd probably do with Benevolent Bodyguard.
Here's what I've come up with:
14 Plains
3 Marsh Flats
3 Arid Mesa
Creatures: 23
4 Student of Warfare
3 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Sigiled Paladin
4 Knight Exemplar
4 Wilt-Leaf Liege
4 Path to Exile
Artifacts: 9
4 Aether Vial
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Oblivion Ring
Sigiled Paladin is a personal choice, but that is kind of subject to change. I chose it because this deck may benefit from attacking with one creature and holding back a wall of first strikers for defense. I also realize that I may not want to attack with Exemplars much, so there's a decent chance I may want to attack with only one creature, and this deck is more aggro/control than straight up aggro. But still, I'll have to see how that one works. I'm not wholly sold on Paladin yet.
Divining Top is in because white is sorely lacking in card draw, and Top+fetches is a pseudo-draw engine. Knight of the White Orchid is card I've wanted to find a place for in legacy, and now I think it's finally found a home where it's not overshadowed by Serra Avenger, Stoneforge Mystic, etc. It's a knight that will fetch a land and accelerate my mana, which I think is pretty good, at least in a Knight tribal deck. KO2 and Top also allow me to run fewer lands than I might otherwise have to include.
This is kind of a first draft of the deck, so some cards might get changed and some numbers might get tweaked. I am, however, pretty set on keeping it mono-white. I think it will be much more consistent and much more resilient this way. As of now, there are no Wasteland targets and no chance of getting color-screwed, which I like.
In Modern:
:symu::symw::symr: Holy Rollers (Geist Tempo)
My NovelJoy author profile: http://www.noveljoy.com/userInfo?wid=189
I write mainly horror/scifi/fantasy type short stories. Please read and feel free to send me feedback.
It seems like all of your creatures will be outclassing most of the opp's critters. I'd like to see how this deck plays out against Goblins and other aggro decks.
I can imagine the game being high in your favor if you stick a Knight Exemplar. Anything running Wrath, and other board sweeper effects will hate you, not to mention you can block goyfs all day.
Currently playing:
UW Modern Tron WU
UR Modern Storm RU
UW [CARD]Rasputin Dreamweaver
[/CARD] UW
Knight of Dawn
Knight of Meadowgrain
Knight of the Holy Nimbus (Good with Armageddon)
Silver Knight
Soltari Crusader
Stillmoon Cavalier
Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers
I would do:
-4 Sigiled Paladin
+4 Silver Knight (If there is Zoo, Goblins, etc)
-4 Wilt-Leaf Liege
Either
+4 Stillmoon Cavalier
+4 Knight of Dawn
+4 Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers
or a 2/2 split of some kind
Probably either Stillmoon or Cavaliers are best but Dawn is decent too. Testing would be needed.
U Solidarity U
Luck is a residue of design.
I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
http://soundcloud.com/vacrix
At least add a Karakas or two to improve mathcup vs. Reanimator w/Legends. I'd run 4Flagstones of Trokair with or without Armaggedon. Wasteland proof Free deck thinning if you put out two of them with no loss of life and not any worse than pain fetches vs. Blood/Magus of the Moon. Also good with Reliquary Knight pump
Green would Give you Choke on the sideboard for U matchup & compost vs. black. Also Krosan Grip vs. some of your worst matchups
Side board should have either Rule of Law or Ethersworn Canonist
Paladin en-Vec would be good here also, AND....what about White Knight
Love the artwork, but I think Sigiled Paladin is really bad in this deck. I'd sooner run Leonin Skyhunter for at least some decent evasion. I think the best cards to run in these 4 spots are 3silver knights and 1mirror entity.
Stoneforge mystic could and in my opinion should replace 1 jitte. This would give you a toolbox option if you want to play Sword of Fire/Ice or Light/Shadow(awesome in case of mirror). I would maybe replace one O-ring with a maindeck Sword of Fire and Ice. If you do run Sword of F/I, I would use white knight over silver because pro URB that draws and deals direct damage is pretty funny.
EDIT: I would try to fit two SF mystic maindeck
Then again this all might be terrible suggestions because it is 2 AM for me and I am extremely tired.
Vial aggro decks depend on having a strong 1-drop creature to back them up. Merfs have Cursecatcher and Gobs have Lackey. Knights have...
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&subtype=+[knight]&cmc=+=[1]
Whoopie.
Next order of business is disruption. For white decks, you have Waste and Port, just like the Gobbos. Your removal options are much better than Either Merfs or Gobs though.
Card Advantage: Merfs have Standstill, Gobs have Matron and Ringleader. You have... Carom? It's just not going to happen in white, and you're going to run out of gas really quickly.
Quite simply, this won't happen. It's like Vial Vampires: you just don't have what it takes in the form of CA on a stick and the all-important 1-drop.
EDIT: someone just suggested SPLASHING black for Haakon, which requires 2 black mana. That's really no longer a splash of black mana, especially with the masses of wastelands running about.
EDIT2: Mom could almost be considered a must-answer. ALMOST. If she was, Vial Soldiers would've happened already.
I am petitioning to get players to stop complaining about mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
I would agree that 4 Moms should be maindeck.
For CA there are options like Abeyance and stoneforge mystic
EDIT: and Knight of the white orchid Is usually Card advantage/excel also.
EDIT: and for the record stoneforge finding a jitte = Good game vs. fish.
Edit: green also gives an awesome turn 1 drop noble hierarch
Also, The Knights evasion/protection far outclasses the soldiers
13 Plains
3 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Chrome Mox
2 Karakas
4 Mother of Runes
4 Student of Warfare
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Knight of the Holy Nimbus
4 Knight Exemplar
4 Path to Exile
4 Armageddon
Enchantments: 4
4 Oblivion Ring
Artifacts: 7
4 Aether Vial
3 Umezawa's Jitte
I'm keeping Path because of it's synergy with KO2, and also for the fact that since I'm going to Armageddon anyway, I'll nullify any drawbacks of using it in the early game, and after I Armageddon I can use it on my own creatures if necessary. Student of Warfare stays in because I should have at least 1-2 mana even after I Armageddon, and that should be enough to make her useful. And I added in 2 Karakas to deal with the Reanimator matchup.
In Modern:
:symu::symw::symr: Holy Rollers (Geist Tempo)
My NovelJoy author profile: http://www.noveljoy.com/userInfo?wid=189
I write mainly horror/scifi/fantasy type short stories. Please read and feel free to send me feedback.
Haakon is a decent choice imo. However, in my experience with the deck it just did not have big enough dudes to dominate the field. And it did not have anything else going for it. The Haakon engine is the only thing you have to manage some sort of angle. If you are going down that path, I really like 3 colors with either blue or green. Of them, I prefer green.
Here are some likely candidates.
Mercenary Knight
Knight of the Reliquary
Court Hussar
Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers
Student of Warfare might not be bad.
I am wary about using creatures with cmc greater than 3 because of how important it is to be able to vial in Haakon if the opponent can neuter your grave yard. Even something as obviously powerful as Kinsbaile Cavalier I am unsure about. But then there may be another version w/out Vials. Think about this deck:
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Entomb
1 Life from the Loam
1 Crib Swap
1 Nameless Inversion
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Knight Examplar
3 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
2 Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Stillmoon Cavalier
4 Mox Diamond
22 Lands
EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I like Nameless Inversion in this deck. Swords to Plowshares will remove Haakon from the game, but you can respond by Inverting him to send him to the GY. You can also pump a Knight of the Reliquary perhaps twice if he is not blocked for an extra 6 damage. Once weakness is definitely the inability to handle noncreature permanents. It may be necessary to use Vindicate.
Kinsbaile Cavalier is a card that I want to like, and I card that I would love if it was a 2/4 or even a 2/3. But a 2 back end just dies to too much stuff, and I'm a little leery of including it. If I did, I'd also have to drop the Armageddons, which I don't want to do as of yet.
In Modern:
:symu::symw::symr: Holy Rollers (Geist Tempo)
My NovelJoy author profile: http://www.noveljoy.com/userInfo?wid=189
I write mainly horror/scifi/fantasy type short stories. Please read and feel free to send me feedback.
I am petitioning to get players to stop complaining about mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Also has the small bonus of not being killed by another one entering the battlefield.
@EnemyWithin, I don't want to drive you away, but it is hard to continue discussing a competitive deck when entire strategies have to be disregarded for budget concerns. In the casual forum, that is the norm. In here we want to build the best deck possible, barring nothing. I don't have some of those cards either.
4 Windswept Heath
4 Marsh Flats
4 Savannah
4 Scrubland
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Student of Warfare
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Steward of Valeron
4 Knight Exemplar
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
4 Path to Exile
4 Entomb
3 Vindicate
Artifacts: 7
4 Aether Vial
3 Umezawa's Jitte
I have also continued to develop my mono-white Knight deck, which although I'm considering a budget-free 3-color build, that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm giving up on the mono-white build. I plan on working on and developing both. Here's what I have for the mono-white build right now:
11 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
3 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Chrome Mox
Creatures: 21
4 Student of Warfare
3 Mother of Runes
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Knight of the Holy Nimbus
4 Knight Exemplar
4 Path to Exile
4 Armageddon
Enchantments: 4
4 Oblivion Ring
Artifacts: 7
4 Aether Vial
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Basilisk Collar
So far it seems like it's doing okay, I think 20 is the correct number of lands considering I have KO2s and Vials, but it may be a little too low. I do now have a disruption/mana denial package in the form of Rishadan Ports, Armageddon, and to an extend Knight of the Holy Nimbus. I also have a decent amount of removal with Path, O-Ring, Jitte, and Collar. I moved Karakas to the sideboard because I want to have at least 10-11 basics, and Karakas is just too easy to Wasteland. I might stick 1 in the main, however. If I increase the number of lands, Karakas will be what I add.
In Modern:
:symu::symw::symr: Holy Rollers (Geist Tempo)
My NovelJoy author profile: http://www.noveljoy.com/userInfo?wid=189
I write mainly horror/scifi/fantasy type short stories. Please read and feel free to send me feedback.
@EnemyWithin: Love the deck ideas. It will be fun to see if this really does take when m11 drops. I will be trying a version of this as well. If going BWG, I wonder if buried alive could or would be usable using Haakon. Costs 3, but tutor up nasty threats. It would give the option of going toolbox with protection knights like silver,white,black, cavalier.
EDIT: buried alive would give you the option of dropping vials. Could replace entomb with these. Add another 1 Haakon, 1 Karakas and still leaves two spots for consideration. Maybe a third stoneforge mystic and 1 nameless inversion like Finn suggested. Being able to play nameless inversion repeatedly from the grave is pretty sweet! or maybe 4 entomb and +2 buried alive and +1 karakas +1 nameless
I love the variant with Knight of the reliquary. Kotr is such a beating in this format that I feel the variant with reliquary maybe the best variant. Although, I could be wrong since I haven't really tested this yet but I want to though whenever I have the time.
With that said, how has the 20 lands and 4 Aether Vials been treating you? Did you ever find you wanted to drop more lands to play more creatures at any given time?
I also think you could abuse Kotr further by adding mutavaults and horizon canopy.
4 Knight Examplar
3 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
3 Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers
4 Knight of the Reliquary
Other Stuff
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Entomb
2 Life from the Loam
1 Crib Swap
1 Nameless Inversion
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Mox Diamond
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Barren Moor
1 Wasteland
3 Marsh Flats
3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
I fleshed out the lands to help me make the case for the design. I have actually been testing a similar design with a different group of creatures, so I am pretty familiar with the way it plays. The way to play the deck is to Entomb Life from the Loam (or simply cast it from your hand). And dredge. As long as Haakon is in play, the only things in the entire deck that are not available from the graveyard are Swords to Plowshares and Thoughtseize. Your cycle lands are like Ancestral Recalls that can't be countered and keep coming back. So you dredge, cycle a land to get Loam back, and dredge again. In the spirit of protecting Haakon, a copy of Glory may be perfect because an opponent who can keep him out of play for even a few turns is going to be ahead of you on tempo. And it is completely dependent on the graveyard. So that has to be considered, and eventually handled.
@Cecilia: Hey, it's good to see you too. I never thought about Mutavault, but swinging with a 3/3 indestructible manland could be an interesting win con. I don't think I'd want to run 4 since even the mono color build is kind of color intensive, but 2 would probably be the right number. Makes me kind of sad I traded mine away, but I can get more fairly easily. Horizon Canopy might actually serve as an additional option to the cycle lands in Finn's list. I'm not sure whether they'd be better or worse, though, I've never really played a deck like this before. I guess the pro is that you can play it and still draw the card, and the con is that you have to play it in order to draw the card from it.
In Modern:
:symu::symw::symr: Holy Rollers (Geist Tempo)
My NovelJoy author profile: http://www.noveljoy.com/userInfo?wid=189
I write mainly horror/scifi/fantasy type short stories. Please read and feel free to send me feedback.
Of course that's a meta decision too...
I agree with you on the horizon canopy, mutavaults and the cycling lands. They definitely look good on paper that's for sure. We should just throw together a list and just test that to see. I'll see if I can come up with something whenever I have time again.
Edit: I just did some testing against merfolks and I won pretty easy about 3 out of the 4 times I played against it. Then I lost to this weird survival deck with elvish pipers, emrakuls, natural orders, and progenitus. I think that deck had my name written all over it since I was playing Knights. I also played against 40+ Lands and went 2-1 versus it. Topdecking an Armageddon felt pretty good in game 3.
I haven't really had time to mess with a green splash yet and since I can't play m11 yet on magic workstation, I decided to skip out on the knight lord temporarily.
Here is the list, of course, it went through some changes after I tested the build.
18 Plains
3 Mutavault
Creatures
4 Silver Knight
3 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Student of Warfare
4 Wilt-Leaf Liege
4 Stillmoon Cavalier
4 AEther Vial
4 Path to Exile
2 Chrome Mox
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Basilisk Collar
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Pithing Needle
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Armageddon
3 Ethersworn Canonist
I am considering Paladin en-vec, although, I don't really like him all that much versus zoo especially since he's only a 2/2 despite of him having protection from red.
I happen to like Wilt-leaf though since I always seem to run into all of the black suicide and eva green decks on mws as of late.
The problem is knights just dont get big enough to be able to keep up mid to late game with only 1 lord. And they dont have the ability to swarm like gobs, soldiers, merfolk, and elves can.
After much play testing and tweaking I think I turned this apparent weakness into a strength of the knights.
By equiping every/any creature I drop with any equip I may have out its fairly easy to get opponents to use all of their removal real quick, and often prematurely (such as on a swinging jitte equiped stoneforge) This combined with the fact that almost every deck in the format trys to dump their hand ASAP (silly tempo decks) anyways, this creates the perfect environment to play a Wrath of God (and no, I have never done this with exemplar out... sigh, one day...). Chances are they are top decking, and hopefully I held a creature (if not likelihood is Ill draw one (and it doesn't even matter who)) Play said knight, equip, and begin the Beating!
Knights thrive in the top deck, between the white orchid, fetches, and 4 flagstones I thin my library of land real nicely. Stoneforge mystic as a tool box makes the knights super versatile, and thins out the equipments really well too (and she can be recycled with SoLS) I have won games top decking her after a wrath. Vial her in tutor, drop and equip the sword of vengeance swing 3, next turn equip everything else you have out already on her, namely the collar. With all this thinning normally my draw consists of first striking knights, or removal. It plays really smoothly.
Although I have had a rough time deciding a sideboard... I would really like to fit 2-3 more swords to plowshares in the side. And possibly a few Paladin En-Vec
2x Kinsbaile Cavalier
4x Knight Exemplar
4x Knight of the White Orchid
4x Sigiled Paladin
4x Skyhunter Skirmisher
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Student of Warfare
Sorcery (2)
2x Wrath of God
Instant (4)
4x Path to Exile
Artifact (11)
4x AEther Vial
3x Basilisk Collar
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Sword of Vengeance
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Flagstones of Trokair
2x Karakas
4x Marsh Flats
1x Mistveil Plains
7x Plains
3x Brave the Elements
3x Disenchant
2x Patrician's Scorn
1x Ravenous Trap
3x Relic of Progenitus
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Wrath of God
Id really appreciate the feedback on this!
Given that your entire force has first strike, you really should be able to stall out just about any aggro deck on the defensive. All you have to do is go find the appropriate protection knight (or evasive, depending) and attach an equipment to him and swing 1 at a time. The others can hang back and really ruin combat. That, however, is how I play a bunch of first strikers.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!