My set has a cycle of one-mana epics, but I was trying to decide what the red one should be. Then I finally decided on it, it's based on Mana Clash and goes something like this:
Roulette Opera
Sorcery
You and up to three other target players each flip a coin. Each player whose coin comes up tails exiles the top card of his or her library. Repeat this process until each player's coin comes up heads on the same flip.
Epic (For the rest of the game, you can't cast spells. At the beginning of each of your upkeeps, copy this spell except for its epic ability.)
edit: new version Roulette Opera
Sorcery
You and up to two other target players each flip a coin. Each player whose coin comes up tails exiles the top card of his or her library. Repeat this process until each player's coin comes up heads on the same flip.
Epic (For the rest of the game, you can't cast spells. At the beginning of each of your upkeeps, copy this spell except for its epic ability.)
edit again: new versions:
Roulette Opera
Sorcery
Each player flips a coin and exiles the top card of his or her library if his or her coin came up tails. Repeat this process until each player's coin came up tails at least once.
Epic (For the rest of the game, you can't cast spells. At the beginning of each of your upkeeps, copy this spell except for its epic ability.)
Roulette Opera
Sorcery
Each player flips a coin. For each coin that comes up tails, each player exiles the top card of his or her library.
Epic (For the rest of the game, you can't cast spells. At the beginning of each of your upkeeps, copy this spell except for its epic ability.)
My set has a cycle of one-mana epics, but I was trying to decide what the red one should be. Then I finally decided on it, it's based on Mana Clash and goes something like this:
The odds of 4 players coming up with 4 heads is 1 in 16. In comparison, mana clash odds of falling both heads is 1 in 4, for a mean of 2 damage.
If a 4 player game (or two headed giant), it is quite possible to end the game the moment it resolves; odds are low, but it still exists, and even if it doesn't it will still exile a mean of 8 cards per turn from everyone. And flipping a mean of 16 coins a turn, every turn until the caster dies is hellishly annoying.
Unacceptable competitively (especially in 2 headed, which is more often than not limited with only 40 card decks). Quite unacceptable in multiplayer casually (if only because it would make people refuse to play multiplayer).
@mondu
What if it said two target players? (so 3 players will be flipping coins instead of 4)
Granted in 2-headed-giant it means you can target both opponents and spare your partner. But maybe it doesn't really matter since if you deck yourself, both of you lose anyway. (however the chances of you decking yourself is 2 to 1)
The point is though that the chances are doubled of all coins turning up heads, so hopefully that would make it much more reasonable.
Also, and maybe I'm getting a little ahead of myself here, but if I go with 2 target players, maybe the players should be chosen at random?
It also has red stealing more of blues territory. Just because it's random doesn't make it red. Red has already intersected enough with blue.
well I already decided on what the other four cards in the cycle will do. Red was giving me the most trouble.
Also, funny you mention red/blue intersecting too much because one of the effects I considered for red was a Wheel of Fortune or Whirlpool Warrior type effect, either of which can be blue.
If I go any lower then it just becomes Mana Clash, which is boring
so in that sense 3 players flipping is the absolute minimum
Thanks for the comments though, you helped me avert a disaster.
By the way, one of my previous sets has a card Stroke of Luck, costs maybe XRR, and says flip X coins, you draw a card for each flip you win. At one point I thought "no that's not right, a player can conceviably have to flip 100 coins." But "flip a coin, if you win, draw X cards" was boring and defeated the whole point of the card. But what I could do is say, oh for example, "X can't be more than 10". Wow, that's a good idea actually.
Hey, maybe there is still a way to make this card better.
What if the card did this instead:
Each player flips a coin and exiles the top card of his or her library if his or her coin came up tails. Repeat this process until each player's coin came up tails at least once.
I mean the problem is it doesn't actually do anything useful. Why not just do "1 dmg to target player." That way they are at least on a clock and it interacts with other cards red plays before that.
I mean the problem is it doesn't actually do anything useful. Why not just do "1 dmg to target player." That way they are at least on a clock and it interacts with other cards red plays before that.
See, thing is. The black card in the cycle is "each opponent loses 1 life and you gain that much life". So the red one can't deal damage, it would be too similar to the black one.
At this point I'm thinking I should post the rest of the cycle so I can show what effects are already taken. (though there's also the option of moving the effects to different colors, if it would help the cycle, but at this point I don't think that's necessary)
[Cardname]
Sorcery
Put a 2/2 Soldier token into play. Epic
Download the Internet
Sorcery
Draw three cards. Epic
[Chain Smoking] or [Secondhand Smoke]
Sorcery Syphon Soul for 1. Epic
[Parenthood]
Sorcery
Put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control. Epic
for red I have considered variants of Wheel of Fortune, Whirlpool Warrior, Mana Clash. Maybe it could be Book Burning related, come to think of it. Notice how the only effect not done among the cycle is milling. So in that sense, the red one pretty much has to be milling. (flawless logic) The Book Burning method would actually make this possible. Maybe the card could involve some sort of bidding with life totals, like Mages Contest.
Download the inter should be target player draws 3 cards, that way it could be used as mill.
Red shouldn't get mill on an epic spell. Red gets mill occasionally, epic mill should be epic.
How about "After your first Combat step, untap all creatures you control and there is another combat step." or something.
Red shouldn't get mill on an epic spell. Red gets mill occasionally, epic mill should be epic.
I think the milling effect doesn't have to be toned down just because it's red. Especially if it has a red aspect involved in it like coin flipping or Book Burning. I am considering a Book Burning clone, but I like the flavor of Roulette Opera quite a lot.
How about "After your first Combat step, untap all creatures you control and there is another combat step." or something.
That is interesting, but then I think of two things. 1) can that effect be put on a card that costs only :symr:. 2) I don't see myself casting Relentless Assault until I'd win the game as a result. In which case the epic part doesn't matter much and it just becomes a Relentless Assault but for only :symr:. On that note the card compares to Final Fortune in not a bad way, since their effects, mana costs, and drawbacks are comparable.
edit: new ideas
- what if Roulette Opera only flipped one coin per player somehow. After all considering it has epic, if all goes well it's going to trigger many times anyway, and one flip for each player, so that's plenty of flipping anyway and enough to call it an "opera"
- what if you can play the exiled cards despite the Epic rule. (or what if all players can play their own exiled cards)
- what if the epic rule doesn't apply this turn depending on what you flip. (optionally: what if this applied to all players not just you?)
- maybe each player flips once, then exiles the top card for each tails flipped among all players. Come to think of it, that's just like the original effect but consolidates the flipping to a much more reasonable level!
- Roulette Opera breaks the cycle, and doesn't have epic, but has an ability somewhat similar to epic
- what if flipping tails also means you can cause a player to flip an additional time. Or maybe the card would be like a Brawl of coin flipping. Like a game of tag with coin flips. And each tails results in X cards exiled, where X is 1 plus the number of coins flipped so far.
I think the idea of a one CMC epic spell is very interesting. The black one seems kind of week. A two point life swing on each of your upkeeps and not being able to do anything else after... is kinda weak. Maybe if the effect were cumulative somehow.
You know, I can actally see a deck being made with this Roulette Opera. Krark's Thumb would be fun with it, obviously. Some manlands for defense/alternate wincon, some ways to cheat things into play from your hand or graveyard, ways to put extra cards in your library, cycling... No matter what, this card puts an immediate (if random) clock on the board.
A one mana spell should make people be want to cast it first turn. An EPIC one mana spell better be really something. I like the red one. What are your others besides black?
What's the flavor of Roulette Opera anyway?
I'd call it "Mindfire". The flavor is it sets every one's brain aflame! Spells are randomly burned out of their minds. (edit: or rather their memories, as it's from the library, not the hand.) Whatcha think?
At one point I even pumped the black one to loses 2 life. But I later bumped it down to 1 life because I worried that 2 life is kind of strong. Against slow decks such as control decks it might be a brutal first turn play, thereby hosing those decks out. Also, if the cycle was not 1-mana each, a Syphon Soul with epic could easily cost 4-6 mana.
I put the rest of the cycle in an earlier post, I'll copy and paste it in this post:
[Cardname]
Sorcery
Put a 2/2 Soldier token into play. Epic
Download the Internet
Sorcery
Draw three cards. Epic
[Chain Smoking] or [Secondhand Smoke]
Sorcery Syphon Soul for 1. Epic
[Parenthood]
Sorcery
Put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control. Epic
the blue and green ones you would never cast on the first turn.
The white one however does make a fascinating turn one cast. It will win on turn 5 if the opponent doesn't react, and it's also interesting as a teaching tool.
The flavor of Roulette Opera is a solemn mafia musical made entirely out of coin flipping sounds.
and you know how in a musical number, everyone randomly starts singing/dancing? In this, your opponents are unwittingly part of the act.
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Roulette OperaSorcery
You and up to three other target players each flip a coin. Each player whose coin comes up tails exiles the top card of his or her library. Repeat this process until each player's coin comes up heads on the same flip.
Epic (For the rest of the game, you can't cast spells. At the beginning of each of your upkeeps, copy this spell except for its epic ability.)
edit: new version
Roulette OperaSorcery
You and up to two other target players each flip a coin. Each player whose coin comes up tails exiles the top card of his or her library. Repeat this process until each player's coin comes up heads on the same flip.
Epic (For the rest of the game, you can't cast spells. At the beginning of each of your upkeeps, copy this spell except for its epic ability.)
edit again: new versions:
The odds of 4 players coming up with 4 heads is 1 in 16. In comparison, mana clash odds of falling both heads is 1 in 4, for a mean of 2 damage.
If a 4 player game (or two headed giant), it is quite possible to end the game the moment it resolves; odds are low, but it still exists, and even if it doesn't it will still exile a mean of 8 cards per turn from everyone. And flipping a mean of 16 coins a turn, every turn until the caster dies is hellishly annoying.
Unacceptable competitively (especially in 2 headed, which is more often than not limited with only 40 card decks). Quite unacceptable in multiplayer casually (if only because it would make people refuse to play multiplayer).
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
What if it said two target players? (so 3 players will be flipping coins instead of 4)
Granted in 2-headed-giant it means you can target both opponents and spare your partner. But maybe it doesn't really matter since if you deck yourself, both of you lose anyway. (however the chances of you decking yourself is 2 to 1)
The point is though that the chances are doubled of all coins turning up heads, so hopefully that would make it much more reasonable.
Also, and maybe I'm getting a little ahead of myself here, but if I go with 2 target players, maybe the players should be chosen at random?
well I already decided on what the other four cards in the cycle will do. Red was giving me the most trouble.
Also, funny you mention red/blue intersecting too much because one of the effects I considered for red was a Wheel of Fortune or Whirlpool Warrior type effect, either of which can be blue.
Flipping a mean of 8 coins a turn every turn is still annoying. Less annoying than 16 coins a turn, but still...
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
so in that sense 3 players flipping is the absolute minimum
Thanks for the comments though, you helped me avert a disaster.
By the way, one of my previous sets has a card Stroke of Luck, costs maybe XRR, and says flip X coins, you draw a card for each flip you win. At one point I thought "no that's not right, a player can conceviably have to flip 100 coins." But "flip a coin, if you win, draw X cards" was boring and defeated the whole point of the card. But what I could do is say, oh for example, "X can't be more than 10". Wow, that's a good idea actually.
What if the card did this instead:
It's less wordier to boot.
See, thing is. The black card in the cycle is "each opponent loses 1 life and you gain that much life". So the red one can't deal damage, it would be too similar to the black one.
At this point I'm thinking I should post the rest of the cycle so I can show what effects are already taken. (though there's also the option of moving the effects to different colors, if it would help the cycle, but at this point I don't think that's necessary)
Sorcery
Put a 2/2 Soldier token into play. Epic
Download the Internet
Sorcery
Draw three cards. Epic
[Chain Smoking] or [Secondhand Smoke]
Sorcery
Syphon Soul for 1. Epic
[Parenthood]
Sorcery
Put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control. Epic
for red I have considered variants of Wheel of Fortune, Whirlpool Warrior, Mana Clash. Maybe it could be Book Burning related, come to think of it. Notice how the only effect not done among the cycle is milling. So in that sense, the red one pretty much has to be milling. (flawless logic) The Book Burning method would actually make this possible. Maybe the card could involve some sort of bidding with life totals, like Mages Contest.
Red shouldn't get mill on an epic spell. Red gets mill occasionally, epic mill should be epic.
How about "After your first Combat step, untap all creatures you control and there is another combat step." or something.
I wanted to make it that, but it wouldn't fit as well flavor-wise.
even without the mill option Download can still be good with things like Meteor Storm, Pyromancy, Wild Mongrel, spellshapers, Jushi Apprentice, etc
I think the milling effect doesn't have to be toned down just because it's red. Especially if it has a red aspect involved in it like coin flipping or Book Burning. I am considering a Book Burning clone, but I like the flavor of Roulette Opera quite a lot.
That is interesting, but then I think of two things. 1) can that effect be put on a card that costs only :symr:. 2) I don't see myself casting Relentless Assault until I'd win the game as a result. In which case the epic part doesn't matter much and it just becomes a Relentless Assault but for only :symr:. On that note the card compares to Final Fortune in not a bad way, since their effects, mana costs, and drawbacks are comparable.
edit: new ideas
- what if Roulette Opera only flipped one coin per player somehow. After all considering it has epic, if all goes well it's going to trigger many times anyway, and one flip for each player, so that's plenty of flipping anyway and enough to call it an "opera"
- what if you can play the exiled cards despite the Epic rule. (or what if all players can play their own exiled cards)
- what if the epic rule doesn't apply this turn depending on what you flip. (optionally: what if this applied to all players not just you?)
- maybe each player flips once, then exiles the top card for each tails flipped among all players. Come to think of it, that's just like the original effect but consolidates the flipping to a much more reasonable level!
- Roulette Opera breaks the cycle, and doesn't have epic, but has an ability somewhat similar to epic
- what if flipping tails also means you can cause a player to flip an additional time. Or maybe the card would be like a Brawl of coin flipping. Like a game of tag with coin flips. And each tails results in X cards exiled, where X is 1 plus the number of coins flipped so far.
You know, I can actally see a deck being made with this Roulette Opera. Krark's Thumb would be fun with it, obviously. Some manlands for defense/alternate wincon, some ways to cheat things into play from your hand or graveyard, ways to put extra cards in your library, cycling... No matter what, this card puts an immediate (if random) clock on the board.
A one mana spell should make people be want to cast it first turn. An EPIC one mana spell better be really something. I like the red one. What are your others besides black?
What's the flavor of Roulette Opera anyway?
I'd call it "Mindfire". The flavor is it sets every one's brain aflame! Spells are randomly burned out of their minds. (edit: or rather their memories, as it's from the library, not the hand.) Whatcha think?
I put the rest of the cycle in an earlier post, I'll copy and paste it in this post:
Sorcery
Put a 2/2 Soldier token into play. Epic
Download the Internet
Sorcery
Draw three cards. Epic
[Chain Smoking] or [Secondhand Smoke]
Sorcery
Syphon Soul for 1. Epic
[Parenthood]
Sorcery
Put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control. Epic
the blue and green ones you would never cast on the first turn.
The white one however does make a fascinating turn one cast. It will win on turn 5 if the opponent doesn't react, and it's also interesting as a teaching tool.
The flavor of Roulette Opera is a solemn mafia musical made entirely out of coin flipping sounds.
and you know how in a musical number, everyone randomly starts singing/dancing? In this, your opponents are unwittingly part of the act.