Well, now that I can actually make this deck, this thread seems a whole lot more relevant! I've cut it down to 100, but of course now Scars is out, and I'll have to figure out what wants to go in from there (a whole lot, most likely). Expect more updates soon.
Heyo, I'm not the best at recommending what to cut, but the flagship doesn't seem to hot, Phyrexian Processor is always risky, between power, and making people not notice it. Tower of fortune seems a bit pricy, and to easy to get sniped by artifact destruction, in response to it's trigger, which would suck. Cold steel heart etbs taped and will only ever give you red mana, so its main advantage doesn't help you here.
How ever, it looks fantastic, and decks like these are the reason I have started looking into edh, and it looks awesome!!!! If only you could fit slobad teh awesome in there:p
Edit: just noticed the Awesome combo of mad blind mountain, and scrying sheets. Very cool:). There is also wheel of ( fate? Fortune?) that's good, and there is a new red card, which name escapes me, that kills a artifact, a land, or both that's pretty awesome. Sorry for lack of tags, doing this from a phone
Heyo, I'm not the best at recommending what to cut, but the flagship doesn't seem to hot, Phyrexian Processor is always risky, between power, and making people not notice it. Tower of fortune seems a bit pricy, and to easy to get sniped by artifact destruction, in response to it's trigger, which would suck. Cold steel heart etbs taped and will only ever give you red mana, so its main advantage doesn't help you here.
Thanks for the suggestions. I completely missed that I still had the Heart in there, so that's an easy cut. Processor I'm also fine with losing, because you're right that it will often just get shot down and you'll have paid 10-20 life for not much. However, Tower is pretty good in a color lacking decent card draw, and four cards can be game-changing, let alone four every turn (and it doesn't matter if it gets destroyed with the ability on the stack, I still get to draw). Predator is not amazing, but I've been quite happy with Altar of Shadows in my Shirei deck, and there isn't much between them. Plus, Predator has the much-overlooked use of actually giving your dudes evasion!
How ever, it looks fantastic, and decks like these are the reason I have started looking into edh, and it looks awesome!!!! If only you could fit slobad teh awesome in there:p
Edit: just noticed the Awesome combo of mad blind mountain, and scrying sheets. Very cool:). There is also wheel of ( fate? Fortune?) that's good, and there is a new red card, which name escapes me, that kills a artifact, a land, or both that's pretty awesome. Sorry for lack of tags, doing this from a phone
Yeah, Slobad just had to go. He was one of my early cuts. Wheel of Fortune/Fate came later, as did a whole package of disruption (Wild Ricochet, Shunt, and so forth). I hate having to pass over all this gas...
I'm back;). Thanks for the heads up on that rule, I've had someone tell me otherwise. My next suggestion would be grim monolith, as it's less effective the the basalt one, and you can't go infinite with it. I also think sisays ring/ur golems eye are under efficient, but that's me;).
Soul foundry is in the same book as the processor for me, if you can get it online, it's fantastic, if not it's card disadvantage. It also requires a ungodly amount of mana. I'm on a edge about the minion reflector, could be fun with the diver/retriever triggers. you should sleeve it up and see if your dudes will let you play it:)
In addition to those suggested above, I would cut Hedron Matrix and Aladdin. The former is clunky and the latter is slow and inefficient.
I've always wondered why you can't play these guys as generals. Just as a card must have the mana symbols of its general only, all the mana symbols on a general should validate it as a general of those colours. Keep up with the lists and we may see a long overdue rules change!
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Very nice looking deck. If i had to cut stuff id look at the mana excel 1st, you seem to have a lot...i usually find that if you get a gauntlet or extraplanar lense in mono color you are in pretty good shape not to mention you have braid of fire and blinkmoth urn for even more mana. Id cut the ruby madallion since i dont see all that many spells that benefit from it. Prolly the ring and the eye as well. Grim monolith and worn powerstone too.
Also akromas memorial looks a bit win more here since most of your creatures are solid on there own. And i dont see all that many uses for minion reflector either at a glance. Mayabe aladin as the 8th card...
Hope this helps and again very nice deck, if you were in my playgroup we would let you play it.
Ruby Medallion is kind of pointless, since you have all of maybe 5 actual red spells in there. Hedron Matrix just isn't that good. Aladdin is silly (funny, but if you're making cuts, he's one to go). Minion Reflector doesn't seem like it would do a whole lot for you - you don't have that many creatures, and so that thing would sit alone doing nothing most of the time. Same with Soul Foundry, actually - yeah, putting Hoarding Dragon on it is living the dream, but what else? Pretty much nothing. Cut it. Akroma's Memorial is cool - but Sword of Vengeance is better, since your deck runs so few creatures. You don't need the Memorial. You don't need Mycosynth Lattice, since virtually all of your cards are already artifacts - plenty of fodder for Bosh to toss around. I can almost guarantee you that Gorilla Shaman will never be as good or as useful as you want it to be. Lastly, Braid of Fire, even with the removal of mana burn, is terrible. Trust me, I tried! I ran it in THREE different EDH decks, because I WANTED to love it. But even though it can't hurt you, the fact remains that mana only in your upkeep (especially when most of your deck is artifacts) just doesn't have that many uses. Not worth a card slot, anyway - and boy will you be mad to topdeck it turn seven.
Anyway, that's nine cards - which will get you down to 99! Though, I am rather sad you cut Slobad... I love him. And he fixed Bosh! For flavor alone, he's worth it.
Lastly, Braid of Fire, even with the removal of mana burn, is terrible. Trust me, I tried! I ran it in THREE different EDH decks, because I WANTED to love it. But even though it can't hurt you, the fact remains that mana only in your upkeep (especially when most of your deck is artifacts) just doesn't have that many uses. Not worth a card slot, anyway - and boy will you be mad to topdeck it turn seven.
Artifacts have a lot of activations costs, not to mention the mana vault and it's wannabe need untapping.
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Check out the thread for my cube if you have the time, and tell me how terrible it is.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Right. Let's get to work. I've cut down to 100, with the help of the above posts, and am currently thinking about Scars cards to put in. Man. Just when I had it sorted, I suddenly have infinite good cards to put in.
EDIT: Okay, I'm going to use this post as a workspace, rather than my blog as I usually do. Too lazy.
I was looking at your list and might I suggest using Wurmcoil Engine? Even if you don't sac it to Bosh, Iron Golem, it's a very versatile creature for it's cost.
Oh, this part is off topic, but how would I add my deck to the EDH deck database? (I haven't made it on here yet, though)
Right. Let's get to work. I've cut down to 100, with the help of the above posts, and am currently thinking about Scars cards to put in. Man. Just when I had it sorted, I suddenly have infinite good cards to put in.
EDIT: Okay, I'm going to use this post as a workspace, rather than my blog as I usually do. Too lazy.
Out of those, Koth and steel hellkite seem like the most auto-includes. If nothing else, Koth is a ramp spell in colors that don't usually have ramp, and if you manage for get his ultimate off, you could probably wipe out all opposing creatures/burn them to death. Steel hellkite is repeatable removal on a stick with firebreathing. How much better could it get? It is one of the most versatile cards in this deck.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
For some reason I really want to suggest Shrapnel Blast and Galvanic Blast. I know, damage based removal isn't that good, but 4 and 5 damage still kills a lot.
Of the cards that you have listed, Hellkite, Sword, Vat, and Deathmantle seem like auto includes. I guess Koth as well for the mana and potential never ending partial Flame Fusilade.
The only ones that I'm not a fan of are Emperion, Portal, and Exoskeleton. I've enjoyed the others in the current limited format to say they are potentially powerful for this format.
I was looking at your list and might I suggest using Wurmcoil Engine? Even if you don't sac it to Bosh, Iron Golem, it's a very versatile creature for it's cost.
As much as I love Wurmcoil (I play four in both my T2 decks :love:), at the end of the day, it can only really attack or block. The lifegain is mostly irrelevant in Commander, and the body isn't that impressive. Sacrificing him to Bosh is cool and all, but still doesn't really achieve anything much.
Oh, this part is off topic, but how would I add my deck to the EDH deck database? (I haven't made it on here yet, though)
Just post a link to the deck and what commander you are using in the database thread, and KingChewie will add it to the database when he next updates it (us mods don't have anything to do with the database, KingChewie still does it all himself, for which we are very grateful).
I feel like he's basically worse than the Powerstone, being more fragile and similarly unable to tap as soon as he hits play. I'm not sure either, I probably just won't put him in.
Perhaps a swap of Kuldotha Forgemaster for Citanul Flute? I mean the forgemaster is expensive, but cheating a forge into play seems to good.
I'm not so happy contemplating this one. Flute is really good, and I still have enough creatures to make it worthwhile, IMO.
For some reason I really want to suggest Shrapnel Blast and Galvanic Blast. I know, damage based removal isn't that good, but 4 and 5 damage still kills a lot.
But they don't reall do much else, which makes them rather underwhelming with Sheets/Lens/Gauntlet/Koth. On balance, I think I'd rather have Mountains.
The only ones that I'm not a fan of are Emperion, Portal, and Exoskeleton. I've enjoyed the others in the current limited format to say they are potentially powerful for this format.
Emperion seems bad, I agree. But having just ditched Soul Foundry, I really want to at least try out Portal and see if it works. Exoskeleton is just for Bosh, since it makes killing people really easy. I think it's worth it for that.
Thanks for the suggestions, everyone! Time to figure it all out.
Okay. It's been hard, but this is what is going in:
Mixed feelings about you dropping the kite, I recommend keeping one on hand for just incase. I mean it is ca that fixes land drops in red, but thats just me. Other then that, good choices:)
Edit: Are you really going to get mishra's workshop? Just wondering;P
Exoskeleton is just for Bosh, since it makes killing people really easy. I think it's worth it for that.
Lulz, I didn't even think about that. Bosh, untap, Exoskeleton, equip, fire Mycosynth Golem at your face. Yeah, I see what you mean that it seems pretty solid.
Kind of sad to see Colossus and and D. Hedron go. They all seem like solid choices to remove though.
Have you considered Gate to the Aether before? You only have 4 cards out of 99 that won't be played for free off of it. (Koth, All is Dust, Shattering Pulse, and Trash for Treasure) Just a thought since I've never seen it used before. It seems like it could be powerful with Bosh.
Im surprised to see you aren't running an Eye of Ugin and Godo, Bandit Warlord. Both give red some tutoring capability and Godo + Argentum Armor (or any equipment for that matter) is really strong.
Mixed feelings about you dropping the kite, I recommend keeping one on hand for just incase. I mean it is ca that fixes land drops in red, but thats just me. Other then that, good choices:)
Is it really that good? I admit, it's not a card I've ever actually used before, so I don't have much experience with it.
Edit: Are you really going to get mishra's workshop? Just wondering;P
Probably! I just bought an English Imperial Seal off a user here, so now I can justify anything! Especially given that Workshop is actually unique and broken.
Have you considered Gate to the Aether before? You only have 4 cards out of 99 that won't be played for free off of it. (Koth, All is Dust, Shattering Pulse, and Trash for Treasure) Just a thought since I've never seen it used before. It seems like it could be powerful with Bosh.
Having used it in group hug, I'm now wary of doing so in any serious deck. If I cast it against a deck with splashier cards than me, I will just get blown out.
Im surprised to see you aren't running an Eye of Ugin and Godo, Bandit Warlord. Both give red some tutoring capability and Godo + Argentum Armor (or any equipment for that matter) is really strong.
I did think quite seriously about Godo. However, given that I'm not running Gamble, would that not be the better choice? I suppose Godo can become extremely beastly by himself...
Id play both Gamble and Godo personally. Seriously no love for Eye of Ugin? In the right deck (like this one), it gives you a big lategame and I'd put it on par with lands like Academy Ruins or Volrath's Stronghold if left unchecked. I think its often overlooked because its thought of as an "Eldrazi" card.
Id play both Gamble and Godo personally. Seriously no love for Eye of Ugin? In the right deck (like this one), it gives you a big lategame and I'd put it on par with lands like Academy Ruins or Volrath's Stronghold if left unchecked. I think its often overlooked because its thought of as an "Eldrazi" card.
I can't stand lands that don't add mana, basically. I make a point of not running even the really good stuff like Maze of Ith. That said, I've been thinking about it today, and trying to convince myself to make an exception for Eye. I've also been trying to wrap my head around Godo. So, let's do this:
I can attest to godo's power, he's pretty bonkers as he's essentially an "artifact" for the purposes of the slot, since he always fetches something. Obviously Grafted Exoskeleton is good, but it also opens you up for argentum armor, another 6 mana artifact to fling.
Regarding the Eye of Ugin, I'd be careful about cutting a land for it, since it's not a mana source. Are you happy with Braid of Fire? I don't see that many ways to use it in your list, the best probably being Tower of Fortunes. I suppose it works well with Grim Monolith and Mana Vault...anyway just wondering.
I ran Koth a lot in a mono red deck and was very dissappointed. His first ability is ok, his second is what you really want him for. His ultimate never happened. Too much LD in our meta to even be relevant. I would much rather run gauntlet of might over him.
Regarding the Eye of Ugin, I'd be careful about cutting a land for it, since it's not a mana source.
You know, I think you've hit upon the core of the problem here. The reason I dislike lands that don't make mana so much is that I always think about the opening hands that would be keepable if they were a basic instead. Treating them like they aren't lands at all makes so much more sense. Thank you!
That said, I'm now at the point where I don't know what to cut again. I might leave things as they are for now, and swap back in the Mountain when I've playtested and know what doesn't live up to expectations.
In theorycrafting, it looks pretty good, as I have 16 cards that can make at least some use out of it (Bosh himself included). Will it work out? I don't know. I'll have to test it. I intend to get this deck up and running within the next couple of weeks, so I'll get back to you.
I ran Koth a lot in a mono red deck and was very dissappointed. His first ability is ok, his second is what you really want him for. His ultimate never happened. Too much LD in our meta to even be relevant. I would much rather run gauntlet of might over him.
Both Gauntlets are there already, but I agree that he might turn out to be a bit of a dud. Once again, I'd like to see how he goes in actual games, and I have a spare copy lying around, so it's not going to hurt the wallet.
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1 Bosh, Iron Golem
1 Goblin Welder
2 Scarecrone
3 Arcbound Reclaimer
4 Junk Diver
5 Myr Retriever
1 Unwinding Clock
2 Mycosynth Lattice
3 Sculpting Steel
4 Clock of Omens
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Blightsteel Colossus
3 Darksteel Forge
4 Mimic Vat
5 Shimmer Myr
6 Spine of Ish Sah
7 Karn, Silver Golem
8 Lightning Greaves
9 Grafted Exoskeleton
10 Mycosynth Golem
11 Steel Hellkite
12 Vedalken Orrery
13 Rings of Brighthearth
14 Darksteel Plate
15 Solemn Simulacrum
16 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Shattering Pulse
3 Viashino Heretic
4 All is Dust
5 Oblivion Stone
1 Citanul Flute
2 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Memory Jar
4 Mind's Eye
5 Planar Portal
6 Godo, Bandit Warlord
7 Sensei's Divining Top
8 Tower of Fortunes
9 Expedition Map
1 Basalt Monolith
2 Caged Sun
3 Blinkmoth Urn
4 Thran Dynamo
5 Sol Ring
6 Extraplanar Lens
7 Gauntlet of Might
8 Gauntlet of Power
9 Worn Powerstone
10 Gilded Lotus
11 Grim Monolith
12 Mana Vault
13 Mana Geyser
14 Mana Crypt
15 Palladium Myr
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 Karn Liberated
4 Ruination
5 Insurrection
6 Reiterate
7 Wake of Destruction
1 Mishra's Workshop
2 Scrying Sheets
3 Spinerock Knoll
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
5 Eye of Ugin
6 Phyrexia's Core
How ever, it looks fantastic, and decks like these are the reason I have started looking into edh, and it looks awesome!!!! If only you could fit slobad teh awesome in there:p
Edit: just noticed the Awesome combo of mad blind mountain, and scrying sheets. Very cool:). There is also wheel of ( fate? Fortune?) that's good, and there is a new red card, which name escapes me, that kills a artifact, a land, or both that's pretty awesome. Sorry for lack of tags, doing this from a phone
Thanks for the suggestions. I completely missed that I still had the Heart in there, so that's an easy cut. Processor I'm also fine with losing, because you're right that it will often just get shot down and you'll have paid 10-20 life for not much. However, Tower is pretty good in a color lacking decent card draw, and four cards can be game-changing, let alone four every turn (and it doesn't matter if it gets destroyed with the ability on the stack, I still get to draw). Predator is not amazing, but I've been quite happy with Altar of Shadows in my Shirei deck, and there isn't much between them. Plus, Predator has the much-overlooked use of actually giving your dudes evasion!
Yeah, Slobad just had to go. He was one of my early cuts. Wheel of Fortune/Fate came later, as did a whole package of disruption (Wild Ricochet, Shunt, and so forth). I hate having to pass over all this gas...
Soul foundry is in the same book as the processor for me, if you can get it online, it's fantastic, if not it's card disadvantage. It also requires a ungodly amount of mana. I'm on a edge about the minion reflector, could be fun with the diver/retriever triggers. you should sleeve it up and see if your dudes will let you play it:)
I've always wondered why you can't play these guys as generals. Just as a card must have the mana symbols of its general only, all the mana symbols on a general should validate it as a general of those colours. Keep up with the lists and we may see a long overdue rules change!
Also akromas memorial looks a bit win more here since most of your creatures are solid on there own. And i dont see all that many uses for minion reflector either at a glance. Mayabe aladin as the 8th card...
Hope this helps and again very nice deck, if you were in my playgroup we would let you play it.
Sharuum the Hegemon
Mayael the Anima
Wort, Boggart Auntie
Sliver Overlord
Drana Kalastria Bloodchief
99 mountain Ashling
Anyway, that's nine cards - which will get you down to 99! Though, I am rather sad you cut Slobad... I love him. And he fixed Bosh! For flavor alone, he's worth it.
Artifacts have a lot of activations costs, not to mention the mana vault and it's wannabe need untapping.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
EDIT: Okay, I'm going to use this post as a workspace, rather than my blog as I usually do. Too lazy.
Man. This is going to be hard.
Oh, this part is off topic, but how would I add my deck to the EDH deck database? (I haven't made it on here yet, though)
UG Turbo Land GU
Extended
BRG Jund GRB
EDH
UR Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind RU
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon BUW
B Skittles, the Blight Dragon B
R Bosh, Iron Golem R
WBG Doran, the Siege Tower GBW
WBR Oros, the Avenger RBW
I think you should replace PC with Steel Hellkite as they are both evasive beaters, but the Hellkite has removal attached.
I <3 Palladium Myr, but I don't know what you should replace for him. Maybe his cousin Worn Powerstone?
Perhaps a swap of Kuldotha Forgemaster for Citanul Flute? I mean the forgemaster is expensive, but cheating a forge into play seems to good.
Hope it helped. Or atleast made thing more confusing
Out of those, Koth and steel hellkite seem like the most auto-includes. If nothing else, Koth is a ramp spell in colors that don't usually have ramp, and if you manage for get his ultimate off, you could probably wipe out all opposing creatures/burn them to death. Steel hellkite is repeatable removal on a stick with firebreathing. How much better could it get? It is one of the most versatile cards in this deck.
Honorable mentions:
Argentum armor
Mimic vat
Kuldotha forgemaster
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
Why no Great Furnace or Darksteel Citadel? They play nicely with Blinkmoth Urn.
Of the cards that you have listed, Hellkite, Sword, Vat, and Deathmantle seem like auto includes. I guess Koth as well for the mana and potential never ending partial Flame Fusilade.
The only ones that I'm not a fan of are Emperion, Portal, and Exoskeleton. I've enjoyed the others in the current limited format to say they are potentially powerful for this format.
Hooray unbanned Bosh!!!
Draft my Cube!
As much as I love Wurmcoil (I play four in both my T2 decks :love:), at the end of the day, it can only really attack or block. The lifegain is mostly irrelevant in Commander, and the body isn't that impressive. Sacrificing him to Bosh is cool and all, but still doesn't really achieve anything much.
Just post a link to the deck and what commander you are using in the database thread, and KingChewie will add it to the database when he next updates it (us mods don't have anything to do with the database, KingChewie still does it all himself, for which we are very grateful).
You're telling me!
Seems sensible. I like the Colossus, so I'll see if I can cut anything else first, but if nothing else stands out, then that's what I'll do.
I feel like he's basically worse than the Powerstone, being more fragile and similarly unable to tap as soon as he hits play. I'm not sure either, I probably just won't put him in.
I'm not so happy contemplating this one. Flute is really good, and I still have enough creatures to make it worthwhile, IMO.
Shivan Meteor, got you?
But seriously, there are so many other cards I'd put in before one-off burn. All of red's instant/sorcery shenanigans, for example.
But they don't reall do much else, which makes them rather underwhelming with Sheets/Lens/Gauntlet/Koth. On balance, I think I'd rather have Mountains.
Emperion seems bad, I agree. But having just ditched Soul Foundry, I really want to at least try out Portal and see if it works. Exoskeleton is just for Bosh, since it makes killing people really easy. I think it's worth it for that.
Thanks for the suggestions, everyone! Time to figure it all out.
Okay. It's been hard, but this is what is going in:
And this is what is coming out:
Man, that was tough. And now I can actually buy this thing and try it out! Woohoo.
Edit: Are you really going to get mishra's workshop? Just wondering;P
Lulz, I didn't even think about that. Bosh, untap, Exoskeleton, equip, fire Mycosynth Golem at your face. Yeah, I see what you mean that it seems pretty solid.
Kind of sad to see Colossus and and D. Hedron go. They all seem like solid choices to remove though.
Have you considered Gate to the Aether before? You only have 4 cards out of 99 that won't be played for free off of it. (Koth, All is Dust, Shattering Pulse, and Trash for Treasure) Just a thought since I've never seen it used before. It seems like it could be powerful with Bosh.
Draft my Cube!
Is it really that good? I admit, it's not a card I've ever actually used before, so I don't have much experience with it.
Probably! I just bought an English Imperial Seal off a user here, so now I can justify anything! Especially given that Workshop is actually unique and broken.
Having used it in group hug, I'm now wary of doing so in any serious deck. If I cast it against a deck with splashier cards than me, I will just get blown out.
I did think quite seriously about Godo. However, given that I'm not running Gamble, would that not be the better choice? I suppose Godo can become extremely beastly by himself...
Thanks for the catch! The question now becomes: what do I put in now? Something I just took out? Godo? Something completely different?
I can't stand lands that don't add mana, basically. I make a point of not running even the really good stuff like Maze of Ith. That said, I've been thinking about it today, and trying to convince myself to make an exception for Eye. I've also been trying to wrap my head around Godo. So, let's do this:
-Sword of Vengeance
-Snow-Covered Mountain
+Godo, Bandit Warlord
+Eye of Ugin
+Expedition Map
We'll see how that goes.
That said, I'm now at the point where I don't know what to cut again. I might leave things as they are for now, and swap back in the Mountain when I've playtested and know what doesn't live up to expectations.
In theorycrafting, it looks pretty good, as I have 16 cards that can make at least some use out of it (Bosh himself included). Will it work out? I don't know. I'll have to test it. I intend to get this deck up and running within the next couple of weeks, so I'll get back to you.
Both Gauntlets are there already, but I agree that he might turn out to be a bit of a dud. Once again, I'd like to see how he goes in actual games, and I have a spare copy lying around, so it's not going to hurt the wallet.