I just started playing EDH about a week ago, and I thought I would post my Selenia, Dark Angel deck for some comments, and to give a slightly different spin on the posted Selenia decks.
This deck uses Selenia in a couple of ways.
First, Selenia is one of the best generals at dodging virtually anything sent her way. This means you can reliably cast her for 5 mana, so you can always count on having a flier to deal damage for you. If you equip her with lots of powerful equipment, she can fairly easily swing for 21. She can also earn you cards through Sword of Fire and Ice, life through Loxodon Hammer, etc. Since she can dodge all removal, you can play tons of wipes of your own, knowing your general will be safe. The other black-white generals require that you play many creatures to be effective, while Selenia is happy all by herself or with just a couple buddies. Late game, you can also essentially pay 5 mana and 2 life to give Selenia vigilance. This is surprisingly useful, especially if you've got a Cabal Coffers in play giving you more mana than you know what to do with.
The second way this deck uses Selenia is that Selenia gives you the ability to lose as much life as you want. By bouncing her in response to bouncing herself, you can bring your life total into the single digits. Necropotence will allow you to do the same thing, and also give you a huge benefit for doing so. Depending on what your opponents are playing, you might deem it safe to do this (be wary of counters and instant burn, obviously). Then you can use Reverse the Sands, Mirror Universe, or Near-Death Experience to virtually eliminate one opponent or win the whole game. If you have Vedalken Orrery in play you can be very sneaky with getting these combos into play: few things are as surprising as a Mirror Universe cast during the upkeep step, or a Near-Death Experience cast at the end of the opponent's turn! Note that unless you can win quickly (or with Near-Death Experience), however, it is probably best to save these combos for when there is only one opponent left, or everybody else will quickly turn against you.
While this deck is meant to be good, there were some choices made with flavor and fun in mind. For instance, I do not run black Myojin even though he is undeniably awesome for the deck. If he's in the deck, the correct choice for a card to tutor for will be him probably 75% of the time, and most people then complain about how boring the game is after you cast him. The only three black/white angels ever printed are the only three non-utility creatures in the deck (and two of the three also have serious utility on them).
I play this deck on MTGO, so the card pool is slightly limited. For the most part this doesn't cause any real issues, though. A few considerations were also made for budget, with Vampiric Tutor and Vindicate being notable exclusions from the deck. Cards like Moat, Forcefield, Mirror Universe, and Imperial Seal, while prohibitively expensive in paper magic, are only a couple bucks online.
It's definitely possible that I've missed many cards that would fit well in this deck. The deck was mainly built from the lists of best EDH cards and the other BW decklists on this site. If you know of anything that could fit well, I'd love to hear about it!
Sorry to necromancy this post up, but I'm looking to get into EDH so I was browsing around for ideas and this one really seemed to fit my play style.
I love the idea of having lots of board removal (wrath of god and such) and board control (moat and such). And I love the idea of pinging down your own life via Selenia (who is awesome) and then flipping it with your opponent (mirror universe and such). And I like the black/white color combo.
So - how did this work? Or does anyone have any comments about the decklist (updates to it or anything)? I'm not concerned about price of cards at the moment, just looking for feedback.
You might check out Blackjack68's Vish Kal list in the database for some ideas. Granted Vish Kal has more of a token theme, but it uses many of the same life loss/gain tools.
You might check out Blackjack68's Vish Kal list in the database for some ideas. Granted Vish Kal has more of a token theme, but it uses many of the same life loss/gain tools.
To date this is still my favorite deck to play, at least in ~4 player games. A few updates have been made with new sets, but it's nothing that wouldn't be too obvious. Vish Kal would be a very, very different deck from this, as this deck plays almost no creatures and uses Selenia as a Voltron-style general despite repeatedly wrathing.
To date this is still my favorite deck to play, at least in ~4 player games. A few updates have been made with new sets, but it's nothing that wouldn't be too obvious. Vish Kal would be a very, very different deck from this, as this deck plays almost no creatures and uses Selenia as a Voltron-style general despite repeatedly wrathing.
That was the feeling I was getting looking it over.
Would you mind posting a revised decklist? I haven't been playing mtg for a while, so I might not catch what should be obvious ... heheh.
Here's the version I've been playing most recently. It's by no means perfect, but it's probably better than the original. Sorry it's not sorted, as this is just the deck file from MTGO.
Other cards I was thinking about: Elspeth, Knight-Errant - OK planeswalker for the deck Syphon Mind - more drawing Forcefield - more defense Myojin of Night's Reach - still debating whether to use him or Avacyn Sword of War and Peace - another buff for Selenia
More mana acceleration (Dreamstone Hedron, Thran Dynamo?)
More swamps/plains, more fetchlands
Current Thoughts:
Multiplayer only: Avacyn -> Myojin of Night's Reach -- Both are comparably good, just depends on the table
Thanks in advance!
Cataclysm -> Academy Rector
Vivid Marsh -> Swamp
Vivid Meadow -> Plains
Grand Coliseum -> Swamp
City of Brass -> Tainted Field
Myojin of Night's Reach -> Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Swamp -> Command Tower
Sword of War and Peace -> No Mercy
Forcefield -> Black Sun's Zenith
Dreamstone Hedron -> Orzhov Signet
Elspeth, Knight Errant -> Promise of Power
Is switching out Desolation Angel for Academy Rector a good idea (I know, I know, not as flavorful)? Desolation angel is good, but we don't have much land recovery, and academy rector provides us with another strong tutor.
Both Desolation Angel and Academy Rector are extremely powerful. You cast Desolation angel on a locked up board state, not just when you think you can recover more quickly. Tip: if somebody is playing green, you probably can't recover more quickly.
I would definitely play Academy Rector, but I don't think Desolation Angel is the right cut.
Sword of War and Peace isn't great, but Light and Shadow is really lackluster here. There just aren't enough creatures in the deck for it to be reliable.
I myself have upped the fetchlands to the full 7 that are allowed. If you do this Isolated chapel should only rarely come in tapped, and is definitely worth it. Orzhov Basilica is probably worth it as it helps you hit an additional land drop. Grand Coliseum seems really weak, on the other hand. The color fixing in this deck isn't that weak. Vivids and any other tap land also seem completely unncecessary.
Ancient Tomb, City of Brass, and Marsh Flats all deal damage to you. They have some synergy with the whole hurting yourself theme, but are they worth it?
City of Brass is debatable, but the other two are great. This deck needs all the easy mana acceleration it can get, or risks being dead before it can do anything.
Other cards I was thinking about: Tectonic Edge - more land destruction
Depends on your table. I find 2 pieces in the deck is usually enough, as the rest of my table also runs a couple pieces each and we can usually stop the really problematic lands. Vesuva also kills legendaries.
When Coffers + Urborg is active this would be OK (although the tokens likely just get swept away sooner or later). Otherwise, I'd rather have a cheaper option. Often I'd rather have a cheaper wipe so I can still play another spell after it in the late game.
Mortify - more spot removal, but not as good as vindicate
I've played this from time to time. 3 mana is a lot for this deck, when often your board position is such that a wipe would just be better.
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad - the only black/white planeswalker! I don't think he is as good as Elspeth, though ...
Yes, I think he isn't particularly synergistic with this deck. Honestly Elspeth isn't awesome either, but I think she's a little better.
[/QUOTE]
Looks pretty good in general. As you play games your list will probably evolve naturally, and I'd be interested in hearing your changes.
Right off the bat I'd suggest that you find room for a couple more card draw effects. Syphon Mind is great. Also, Dreamstone Hedron seems really expensive for this deck. Once you have 6 mana you usually need to do something proactive every turn. I'd probably even play Thran Dynamo before the Hedron, as the deck is mana hungry and only rarely would sac the Hedron.
I've trying out replacing Myojin of Night's Reach with Avacyn, Angel of Hope (exchange the forced discard for making all of my permanents indestructible). Thoughts?
This deck uses Selenia in a couple of ways.
First, Selenia is one of the best generals at dodging virtually anything sent her way. This means you can reliably cast her for 5 mana, so you can always count on having a flier to deal damage for you. If you equip her with lots of powerful equipment, she can fairly easily swing for 21. She can also earn you cards through Sword of Fire and Ice, life through Loxodon Hammer, etc. Since she can dodge all removal, you can play tons of wipes of your own, knowing your general will be safe. The other black-white generals require that you play many creatures to be effective, while Selenia is happy all by herself or with just a couple buddies. Late game, you can also essentially pay 5 mana and 2 life to give Selenia vigilance. This is surprisingly useful, especially if you've got a Cabal Coffers in play giving you more mana than you know what to do with.
The second way this deck uses Selenia is that Selenia gives you the ability to lose as much life as you want. By bouncing her in response to bouncing herself, you can bring your life total into the single digits. Necropotence will allow you to do the same thing, and also give you a huge benefit for doing so. Depending on what your opponents are playing, you might deem it safe to do this (be wary of counters and instant burn, obviously). Then you can use Reverse the Sands, Mirror Universe, or Near-Death Experience to virtually eliminate one opponent or win the whole game. If you have Vedalken Orrery in play you can be very sneaky with getting these combos into play: few things are as surprising as a Mirror Universe cast during the upkeep step, or a Near-Death Experience cast at the end of the opponent's turn! Note that unless you can win quickly (or with Near-Death Experience), however, it is probably best to save these combos for when there is only one opponent left, or everybody else will quickly turn against you.
While this deck is meant to be good, there were some choices made with flavor and fun in mind. For instance, I do not run black Myojin even though he is undeniably awesome for the deck. If he's in the deck, the correct choice for a card to tutor for will be him probably 75% of the time, and most people then complain about how boring the game is after you cast him. The only three black/white angels ever printed are the only three non-utility creatures in the deck (and two of the three also have serious utility on them).
I play this deck on MTGO, so the card pool is slightly limited. For the most part this doesn't cause any real issues, though. A few considerations were also made for budget, with Vampiric Tutor and Vindicate being notable exclusions from the deck. Cards like Moat, Forcefield, Mirror Universe, and Imperial Seal, while prohibitively expensive in paper magic, are only a couple bucks online.
It's definitely possible that I've missed many cards that would fit well in this deck. The deck was mainly built from the lists of best EDH cards and the other BW decklists on this site. If you know of anything that could fit well, I'd love to hear about it!
1 Selenia, Dark Angel
2 Desolation Angel
3 Angel of Despair
Wipe - 12
4 Armageddon
5 Cataclysm
6 Damnation
7 Day of Judgment
8 Wrath of God
9 Hallowed Burial
10 Rout
11 Akroma's Vengeance
12 Austere Command
13 Final Judgment
14 All is Dust
15 Decree of Pain
Mana Accel & Fixers - 9
16 Expedition Map
17 Land Tax
18 Weathered Wayfarer
19 Fellwar Stone
20 Coalition Relic
21 Crucible of Worlds
22 Darksteel Ingot
23 Solemn Simulacrum
24 Gilded Lotus
Card Draw & Library Manipulation - 6
25 Sensei's Divining Top
26 Scroll Rack
27 Necropotence
28 Phyrexian Arena
29 Syphon Mind
30 Promise of Power
31 Imperial Seal
32 Steelshaper's Gift
33 Enlightened Tutor
34 Stoneforge Mystic
35 Demonic Tutor
36 Grim Tutor
37 Idyllic Tutor
38 Diabolic Tutor
Spot Removal & Tricks - 7
39 Condemn
40 Imp's Mischief
41 Mortify
42 Aura of Silence
43 Return to Dust
44 Death Grasp
45 Identity Crisis
Equipment - 7
46 Empyrial Plate
47 Loxodon Warhammer
48 Sword of Fire and Ice
49 Sword of Light and Shadow
50 Sword of Vengeance
51 Nightmare Lash
Recursion - 3
52 Yawgmoth's Will
53 Beacon of Unrest
54 Debtors' Knell
Attack discouragement - 3
55 Forcefield
56 Moat
57 No Mercy
Combos w/ Selenia or Necropotence - 4
58 Vedalken Orrery
59 Near-Death Experience
60 Mirror Universe
61 Reverse the Sands
62 Bojuka Bog
63 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
64 Cabal Coffers
65 Caves of Koilos
66 Fetid Heath
67 Flagstones of Trokair
68 Ghost Quarter
69 Godless Shrine
70 Marsh Flats
71 Maze of Ith
72 Orzhov Basilica
73 Petrified Field
74 Reflecting Pool
75 Reliquary Tower
76 Scrubland
77 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
78 Strip Mine
79 Tectonic Edge
80 Temple of the False God
81 Thawing Glaciers
82 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
83 Vesuva
84 Volrath's Stronghold
I love the idea of having lots of board removal (wrath of god and such) and board control (moat and such). And I love the idea of pinging down your own life via Selenia (who is awesome) and then flipping it with your opponent (mirror universe and such). And I like the black/white color combo.
So - how did this work? Or does anyone have any comments about the decklist (updates to it or anything)? I'm not concerned about price of cards at the moment, just looking for feedback.
Working on RGRadha, Heir to Keld
Looking into casual WBURGMaelstrom Archangel
stuff
Cool, I'll take a look.
Working on RGRadha, Heir to Keld
Looking into casual WBURGMaelstrom Archangel
That was the feeling I was getting looking it over.
Would you mind posting a revised decklist? I haven't been playing mtg for a while, so I might not catch what should be obvious ... heheh.
Working on RGRadha, Heir to Keld
Looking into casual WBURGMaelstrom Archangel
1 Near-Death Experience
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Imperial Seal
1 Vedalken Orrery
1 Desolation Angel
1 Final Judgment
1 Necropotence
1 Return to Dust
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Exsanguinate
1 Temple of the False God
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Vesuva
1 Scrubland
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Strip Mine
1 Grim Tutor
1 Maze of Ith
1 Moat
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Vengeance
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Debtors' Knell
1 Open the Vaults
1 Sol Ring
1 Condemn
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Expedition Map
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Academy Rector
1 Decree of Pain
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Damnation
1 Promise of Power
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Aura of Silence
1 Syphon Mind
1 Coalition Relic
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Austere Command
1 Wasteland
1 Wrath of God
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Marsh Flats
1 Petrified Field
1 Deserted Temple
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Scroll Rack
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mana Vault
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Mirror Universe
1 Angel of Despair
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Empyrial Plate
1 Day of Judgment
1 Lashwrithe
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Cataclysm
1 Land Tax
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Forcefield
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Rout
1 All Is Dust
1 Godless Shrine
1 Identity Crisis
8 Swamp
1 Reverse the Sands
1 Selenia, Dark Angel
This definitely helps.
Working on RGRadha, Heir to Keld
Looking into casual WBURGMaelstrom Archangel
1 Selenia, Dark Angel
Other-Utility Creatures (2)
2 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
3 Desolation Angel
Board Removal (10)
4 Akroma's Vengeance
5 All is Dust
6 Austere Command
7 Damnation
8 Day of Judgement
9 Decree of Pain
10 Final Judgment
11 Rout
12 Wrath of God
13 Black Sun's Zenith
Tutoring (9)
14 Academy Rector
15 Demonic Tutor
16 Enlightened Tutor
17 Grim Tutor
18 Idyllic Tutor
19 Imperial Seal
20 Steelshaper's Gift
21 Vampiric Tutor
22 Stoneforge Mystic
Recursion (6)
23 Beacon of Unrest
24 Hallowed Burial
25 Open the Vaults
26 Yawgmoth's Will
27 Crucible of Worlds
28 Debtors' Knell
Spot Removal (6)
29 Exsanguinate
30 Return to Dust
31 Swords to Plowshares
32 Vindicate
33 Aura of Silence
34 Angel of Despair
35 Reverse the Sands
36 Mirror Universe
37 Soul Conduit
38 Magus of the Mirror
Mana Acceleration (8)
39 Coalition Relic
40 Orzhov Signet
41 Expedition map
42 Gilded Lotus
43 Sol Ring
44 Land Tax
45 Solemn Simulacrum
46 Weathered Wayfarer
Equipment (5)
47 Lashwrithe
48 Swiftfoot Boots
49 Sword of Feast and Famine
50 Sword of Fire and Ice
51 Sword of Vengeance
Defense (2)
52 No Mercy
53 Moat
Library Manipulation (5)
54 Scroll Rack
55 Sensei's Divining Top
56 Necropotence
57 Phyrexian Arena
58 Promise of Power
Other (3)
59 Identity Crisis
60 Veldeken Orrery
61 Near-Death Experience
Lands (39)
62 Ancient Tomb
63 Bojuka Bog
64 Boseju, Who Shelters All
65 Cabal Coffers
66 Caves of Koilos
67 Deserted Temple
68 Dust Bowl
69 Fetid Heath
70 Flagstones of Trokair
71 Godless Shrine
72 Isolated Chapel
73 Kor Haven
74 Marsh Flats
75 Maze of Ith
76 Orzhov Basilica
77 Petrified Field
78 Reflecting Pool
79 Reliquary Tower
80 Scrubland
81 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
82 Strip Mine
83 Temple of the False God
84 Thawing Glaciers
85 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
86 Vesuva
87 Volrath's Stronghold
88 Wasteland
89 Tainted Field
90 Command Tower
Other cards I was thinking about:
Elspeth, Knight-Errant - OK planeswalker for the deck
Syphon Mind - more drawing
Forcefield - more defense
Myojin of Night's Reach - still debating whether to use him or Avacyn
Sword of War and Peace - another buff for Selenia
More mana acceleration (Dreamstone Hedron, Thran Dynamo?)
More swamps/plains, more fetchlands
Current Thoughts:
Multiplayer only: Avacyn -> Myojin of Night's Reach -- Both are comparably good, just depends on the table
Thanks in advance!
Cataclysm -> Academy Rector
Vivid Marsh -> Swamp
Vivid Meadow -> Plains
Grand Coliseum -> Swamp
City of Brass -> Tainted Field
Myojin of Night's Reach -> Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Swamp -> Command Tower
Sword of War and Peace -> No Mercy
Forcefield -> Black Sun's Zenith
Dreamstone Hedron -> Orzhov Signet
Elspeth, Knight Errant -> Promise of Power
No longer considering:
Catastrophe
Myojin of Cleansing Fire
Nevinyrral's Disk
Martial Coup
Mortify
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Tectonic Edge
Working on RGRadha, Heir to Keld
Looking into casual WBURGMaelstrom Archangel
Both Desolation Angel and Academy Rector are extremely powerful. You cast Desolation angel on a locked up board state, not just when you think you can recover more quickly. Tip: if somebody is playing green, you probably can't recover more quickly.
I would definitely play Academy Rector, but I don't think Desolation Angel is the right cut.
Sword of War and Peace isn't great, but Light and Shadow is really lackluster here. There just aren't enough creatures in the deck for it to be reliable.
I myself have upped the fetchlands to the full 7 that are allowed. If you do this Isolated chapel should only rarely come in tapped, and is definitely worth it. Orzhov Basilica is probably worth it as it helps you hit an additional land drop. Grand Coliseum seems really weak, on the other hand. The color fixing in this deck isn't that weak. Vivids and any other tap land also seem completely unncecessary.
City of Brass is debatable, but the other two are great. This deck needs all the easy mana acceleration it can get, or risks being dead before it can do anything.
Depends on your table. I find 2 pieces in the deck is usually enough, as the rest of my table also runs a couple pieces each and we can usually stop the really problematic lands. Vesuva also kills legendaries.
Seems fine. I should probably have this in my list.
If your table plays almost no mass artifact hate this is fine. Sometimes just hitting your land drops is better though.
This is fine, and perhaps better than forcefield. I removed it a long time ago, but I'm not sure it was the right call.
This card tends to have a very similar effect to desolation angel. Often having both in the deck is overkill.
Yes, too expensive IMO.
We're playing the two best colors for board removal, we don't need to wait a turn.
When Coffers + Urborg is active this would be OK (although the tokens likely just get swept away sooner or later). Otherwise, I'd rather have a cheaper option. Often I'd rather have a cheaper wipe so I can still play another spell after it in the late game.
I've played this from time to time. 3 mana is a lot for this deck, when often your board position is such that a wipe would just be better.
Yes, I think he isn't particularly synergistic with this deck. Honestly Elspeth isn't awesome either, but I think she's a little better.
[/QUOTE]
Looks pretty good in general. As you play games your list will probably evolve naturally, and I'd be interested in hearing your changes.
Right off the bat I'd suggest that you find room for a couple more card draw effects. Syphon Mind is great. Also, Dreamstone Hedron seems really expensive for this deck. Once you have 6 mana you usually need to do something proactive every turn. I'd probably even play Thran Dynamo before the Hedron, as the deck is mana hungry and only rarely would sac the Hedron.
Working on RGRadha, Heir to Keld
Looking into casual WBURGMaelstrom Archangel
Working on RGRadha, Heir to Keld
Looking into casual WBURGMaelstrom Archangel