Here is my Vorosh deck. I have it pretty much where I want it right now, although I am always open to suggestions. This deck operates mostly as GUB goodstuff, which in these colors means a ton of ramp to support huge creatures, counterspells, graveyard recursion, stealing, card draw etc. I seriously LOVE these colors. And to top it off I always have the huge threat of the "deal with me NOW" Vorosh if I need him.
Vorosh is probably my favorite combination of colors as well.
Some card suggestions: Crystal Shard - Consider this with either Draining Whelk or Mystic Snake. Reusable counterspells and with Seedborn Muse, that's a counter-lock that is nigh unbeatable. Dralnu, Lich Lord - Casting Tooth and Nail twice is awesome. It also lets each spell you play come back twice. Primal Command twice seems pretty good since you can almost Plow Under a person and tutor for two creatures. Damnation - Totally self-explanatory. Lighthouse Chronologist - This card is like Seedborn #2. It is so good; active and unmolested (which happens fairly often), it breaks the game wide open. So good. Voidslime - I have never been disappointed with this card. The mana cost is rarely an issue. Arcanis, the Omnipotent - An excellent creature. He is usually targeted right away since the card advantage he can provide is phenomenal. And with Mind Over Matter, you go infinite. Mana Reflection - Add it. It is truly a great card in this format, since the ring adds 4 and the Lotus adds 6.
Otherwise, your list is very similar to mine. I'm a little more counter heavy. but that's my play style. Get some Vorosh BS going down.
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In love with Black since I first began playing Avatar of Woe.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
I am clearly an idiot. You actually have Damnation and Arcanis in the deck.
Some more cards that I came across that you may or may not want to try: Erratic Portal - similar to Crystal Shard, with creature counter-spells and Seedborn Muse it becomes a lock. That is my preferred way to win currently; am i a bad person? Dregs of Sorrow - Removal stapled with some card draw. I have found it to be quite useful in a nonblack format. Echo Mage - it seems really good being able to copy a spell several times during the course of a game. Time Stretch especially becomes a potent spell as does any of the solid sorceries you might be packing or your opponent's might be packing. Sadistic Sacrament - really only good if you keep playing the same deck over and over. I play against my friend's Jenara. I hate seeing a T6 Emrakul; I always remove that and 2 of his infinite combos in the early stages. kicked, it just becomes pretty sweet.
Anyways, happy Vorosh-ing. Eat opponents.
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In love with Black since I first began playing Avatar of Woe.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
I've been thinking about adding some cards like Voidslime, but I'm pretty happy with the deck right now. It can be absolutely BROKEN when you get the right mix of card draw and mana ramp.
I think sometimes that you can draw too much ramp however. That has been my experience where I will draw a ramp spell into a ramp spell or more land. And why not add in a creature bounce artifact? If you can play a lock as powerful as the Seedborn Counter-F**k (as me and my friends call it), why not? With two creature counter-spells and a bounce effect, you will forever control the what enters the board. It is devastating. Cause then you can play that time stretch and win. I suggest testing it; I don't think that you'll be disappointed.
EDIT: A bounce spell with Eternal Witness. Think about it. Or a bounce effect and Terastodon. Or Emrakul. Or Myojin. It is awesome. And really excellent.
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In love with Black since I first began playing Avatar of Woe.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
You make a good case. Mana Reflection and Crystal Shard should probably go in at the least. But what to cut? I'm thinking either Shadowmage Infiltrator or Coldeyed Selkie, and maybe Mystical Teachings. Teachings is good to get Teferi, but it seems expensive for a tutor, and the card advantage from flashback isn't all that great.
I would suggest removing the Selkie and the Infiltrator, as well as Sylvan Scrying. You already have Expedition map to fill in that land tutor spot. Unless it's actually proven useful to you. I did try the Infiltrator, at a very early iteration of Vorosh, and it usually died to a board sweep that someone inevitably plays, sometimes my own. The card advantage is nice, but they die to often for my tastes.
So,
-1 Cold-Eyed Selkie
-1 Shadowmage Infiltrator
-1 Sylvan Scrying
+1 Mana Reflection
+1 Crystal Shard/Erratic Portal
+1 Lighthouse Chronologist- I also suggest testing this card. With the limited amount of spot removal in the early game, it can become active quickly and in the late-game is also a threat. Great card that seems almost perfectly suited for EDH; try it. I have had games where it degenerated into who had control of a Chronologist; Clones becoming copies and dying, Larking the Chronologist back over and over, it was an exhausting game. I won, because I kept the original.
Those are my suggestions anyways. Some more cards that I see you don't have that I play to great success: Oracle of Mul Daya - the land ramping it can provide as a constant presence on the board is staggering sometimes. By T6, I once had 9 lands in play. Temporal Adept - a recent discovery of mine, it does what Crystal Shard and the Portal do, but it can do it to your opponents' stuff too. Don't like them having lands? Bounce. Don't like that artifact? Bounce. With Mind Over Matter, it can create a large tempo for yourself.
Hope my suggestions help. Keep on Vorosh-ing.
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In love with Black since I first began playing Avatar of Woe.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
I would suggest removing the Selkie and the Infiltrator, as well as Sylvan Scrying. You already have Expedition map to fill in that land tutor spot. Unless it's actually proven useful to you. I did try the Infiltrator, at a very early iteration of Vorosh, and it usually died to a board sweep that someone inevitably plays, sometimes my own. The card advantage is nice, but they die to often for my tastes.
So,
-1 Cold-Eyed Selkie
-1 Shadowmage Infiltrator
-1 Sylvan Scrying
+1 Mana Reflection
+1 Crystal Shard/Erratic Portal
+1 Lighthouse Chronologist- I also suggest testing this card. With the limited amount of spot removal in the early game, it can become active quickly and in the late-game is also a threat. Great card that seems almost perfectly suited for EDH; try it. I have had games where it degenerated into who had control of a Chronologist; Clones becoming copies and dying, Larking the Chronologist back over and over, it was an exhausting game. I won, because I kept the original.
Those are my suggestions anyways. Some more cards that I see you don't have that I play to great success: Oracle of Mul Daya - the land ramping it can provide as a constant presence on the board is staggering sometimes. By T6, I once had 9 lands in play. Temporal Adept - a recent discovery of mine, it does what Crystal Shard and the Portal do, but it can do it to your opponents' stuff too. Don't like them having lands? Bounce. Don't like that artifact? Bounce. With Mind Over Matter, it can create a large tempo for yourself.
Hope my suggestions help. Keep on Vorosh-ing.
As soon as I can get my hands on those cards I will test them out. I'm finding that Selkie/Infiltrator are not nearly as good in multiplayer as they were in 1v1, so it's not a very painful cut.
Sylvan Scrying is a little tougher to cut. It helps me get Urborg/Coffers out, gets me reliquary tower after I cast Recurring Insight, etc. And Lighthouse Chronologist seems like it would have a huge target on its head. But it is worth a try.
I may be cutting Emrakul soon, but I want to crush a few more games before I stop being a jerk
In regards to Sylvan Scrying, wouldn't Crop Rotation be strictly better? It does the same thing but puts it directly into play. Meaning you don't have to hold back to play a land that turn. You do sac a land as part of the cost, but it seems worth it. Lighthouse Chronologist does get an enormous target painted on its head. This is very true; I just lost to it after I tried removing it three times. It's still really good with a decent amount of permission/protection. Just depends on your play-style, I suppose. I'm more of a Spike player; I like to win gratuitously and with as much curb-stomping as possible (yes, I do play very competitively with two other guys who play the same way). However, Emrakul got Bribed too often for my taste.
Anyways, perhaps I could get a critique on my own list? Not trying to jack your thread, but maybe you can offer suggestions.
Some synergies that I would like to point out:
Seedborn Muse + Capsize = sheer depression for opponents.
Seedborn Muse + bounce effect + Counter-lock = Game Over.
Seedborn Muse + Planar Portal = Tutor every turn.
Mind Over Matter + Arcanis = Infinite Draw (Discard Ulamog at any iteration and you go infinite mana as well, infinite bounce, infinite mill).
Palinchron + Mana Reflection = Infinite Mana.
Myojin + bounce effect = almost a permanent Mind Twist. At every upkeep, if the Leyline is out.
Eternal Witness + bounce effect = recover any card.
Dralnu is just really good, most often flashbacking ramp spells, sometimes flashbacking tutors.
Leyline + Seedborn Muse = Almost like having a turn during every single opponents' turn. Really, really good.
Body Double after removing the divinity counter from Myojin is sweeet.
Some cards that I have included that I don't see in many other decks: Trade Secrets - for political reasons, this card is excellent. And is also a really potent draw spell, usually netting between 4-8 cards for me. Almost says "Make a friend, draw into the lock". Leyline of Anticipation - playing at instant speed cannot be described. It makes any spell that much better; playing Emrakul at the end of one of your opponents' turns? After they tapped out? ... sounds like scooping. Recross the Paths - it gets any land at the expense of tucking some spells, but it can be clashed and recovered. I have never been sorry to see it.
Anyways, I appreciate any advice offered. Continue Vorosh-ing ftw!
EDIT: I'm in the market for a Top. It will instantly be there once I acquire one. Hmm, Acquire...
I like Recross the Paths better because I can flashback it with Dralnu and then return it to my hand if I can clash well. I believe that the clash is a replacement effect and so is the flashback, so you as the controller get to decide which occurs. Correct me if I'm wrong, please. Having another card that makes Dralnu better is something that I prefer; that slot needs to be a ramp spell. Looking more like Skyshroud Claim at this point.
Some changes to my list:
-1 Evacuation ( evacuating an Avenger of Zendikar does not solve the problem)
+1 Tunnel Vision
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In love with Black since I first began playing Avatar of Woe.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
@OP: You have Seedborn Muse and Tooth and Nail. Where is Sphinx of Magosi. Tooth and Nail for that combo is some serious draw tech. I'd cut the Selkie to make room for him. Ben is right about Mana Reflection. If you have a Grim Monolith or Basalt Monolith out, infy mana. Not the only reason to play it, though. With my list, if it hits the board and isn't answered before my next turn, it usually means I win.
@ Op and Benjameen: Consider that Mana Reflection and Palinchron is infinite mana of any color. Skyshroud claim is one of the best ramp spells you can play. Gets your Breeding Pool and Overgrown Tomb, or just two regular forests, untapped. Another thing, I have tried to cut Evacuation so many times, and then play one more game with it in, just to see, and that game it ends up being a bomb. I rarely see it, but when I do it reminds me why I have never cut it. It is an instant speed board wipe, and I really don't think that you should cut it.
Also, feel free to take a peek at my list. It might give you guys some ideas.
"I will flay the skin from your flesh and the flesh from your bones and scrape your bones dry. And still you will not have suffered enough." -Greven il-Vec, to Gerrard
In regards to Sylvan Scrying, wouldn't Crop Rotation be strictly better? It does the same thing but puts it directly into play. Meaning you don't have to hold back to play a land that turn. You do sac a land as part of the cost, but it seems worth it. Lighthouse Chronologist does get an enormous target painted on its head. This is very true; I just lost to it after I tried removing it three times. It's still really good with a decent amount of permission/protection. Just depends on your play-style, I suppose. I'm more of a Spike player; I like to win gratuitously and with as much curb-stomping as possible (yes, I do play very competitively with two other guys who play the same way). However, Emrakul got Bribed too often for my taste.
Anyways, perhaps I could get a critique on my own list? Not trying to jack your thread, but maybe you can offer suggestions.
Some synergies that I would like to point out:
Seedborn Muse + Capsize = sheer depression for opponents.
Seedborn Muse + bounce effect + Counter-lock = Game Over.
Seedborn Muse + Planar Portal = Tutor every turn.
Mind Over Matter + Arcanis = Infinite Draw (Discard Ulamog at any iteration and you go infinite mana as well, infinite bounce, infinite mill).
Palinchron + Mana Reflection = Infinite Mana.
Myojin + bounce effect = almost a permanent Mind Twist. At every upkeep, if the Leyline is out.
Eternal Witness + bounce effect = recover any card.
Dralnu is just really good, most often flashbacking ramp spells, sometimes flashbacking tutors.
Leyline + Seedborn Muse = Almost like having a turn during every single opponents' turn. Really, really good.
Body Double after removing the divinity counter from Myojin is sweeet.
Some cards that I have included that I don't see in many other decks: Trade Secrets - for political reasons, this card is excellent. And is also a really potent draw spell, usually netting between 4-8 cards for me. Almost says "Make a friend, draw into the lock". Leyline of Anticipation - playing at instant speed cannot be described. It makes any spell that much better; playing Emrakul at the end of one of your opponents' turns? After they tapped out? ... sounds like scooping. Recross the Paths - it gets any land at the expense of tucking some spells, but it can be clashed and recovered. I have never been sorry to see it.
Anyways, I appreciate any advice offered. Continue Vorosh-ing ftw!
EDIT: I'm in the market for a Top. It will instantly be there once I acquire one. Hmm, Acquire...
To further elaborate on your Arcanis + MoM combo, add in Library of Leng and Dream Halls and you play your entire deck for free.
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"I will flay the skin from your flesh and the flesh from your bones and scrape your bones dry. And still you will not have suffered enough." -Greven il-Vec, to Gerrard
@haddoukend Dream Halls. I didn't even know that was a card. Wow. A slot just became open.
In regards to Evacuation, the example I gave has been one of many instances where the bounce was in fact detrimental. Other times I needed to have a legit board sweep but had only Evacuation was Kiki-Jiki infinite (enough mana to play both parts twice), Seedborn+tap-token generator, and a few more. Meh, has been my reaction or just outright "Damn it. I wish I had any other card".
And of course Palinchron + Mana Reflection. It's sweet to cast any spell in your deck.
Now to find some Claims...
@ haddoukend
How has necropotence been working out for you? I think it's a fantastic card, but the triple mana cost seems to be hard to get. Resolving it is the awesomeness and is excellent in any stage of the game.Your thoughts?
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In love with Black since I first began playing Avatar of Woe.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
benjameen7, get a Recurring Insight in there ASAP! Best blue draw spell in EDH. For one more mana than Jace's Ingenuity, you could go from drawing three cards to drawing 12+ on average, albeit at sorcery speed.
When I land this with a Reliquary Tower out when I have established a bunch of ramp or Urborg/Coffers it is normally game over. I can't imagine what it will do when I have mana reflection in the deck.
Any reason you aren't running Urborg/Coffers? When you have this out, you are only limited by how many big cards you have in your hand.
I was testing the Ingenuity to see how I liked playing at instant speed. It's nice; but drawing 11+ cards is better. I have already changed that after playing earlier tonight.
So I was playing tonight against Saffi, Omnath, and Jenara. It was like turn 30 or something (a really epik game with answers for bombs happening left and right) and Omnath was royally mana-screwed. I'm talking he had only 6 lands. On T30. It was awful for him. Anyways, I got Amnesia'd by Jenara and had no board presence. My top-deck was . . . Tooth and Nail. I windmilled that onto the table, immediately got up and did multiple fist pumps and ran around the table, screaming "YES!!" at the top of my lungs. I got Arcanis and Seedborn Muse. I still lost, because an large enough Akroma hit me and he pumped it even more massively. Sigh. It was a great play, and I thought I would share it.
I'm not running Coffers/Urborg because I never really thought about it. What can I use that massive amount of black mana for? I take that back. That is a dumb question. Realllly dumb question.
Thanks for the suggestions.
@ Logicx Mindleech Mass is also really good. I played a person's Mind's Eye from their hand. For free. I added it from looking at your list. Good call.
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In love with Black since I first began playing Avatar of Woe.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
I was also looking at some other good Tooth and Nail targets and had neglected the Mephidross Vampire + Triskelion combo. That is a one-sided infinite board sweep as long as though cards stay on the field. I don't know if it's worth taking out slots for though. What are opinions on this?
My analysis would tend to be fairly harsh, because it seems that each card by themselves don't do a whole lot without each other. But, that is the definition of a combo. Eh, I'm back and forth.
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In love with Black since I first began playing Avatar of Woe.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
@haddoukend Dream Halls. I didn't even know that was a card. Wow. A slot just became open.
In regards to Evacuation, the example I gave has been one of many instances where the bounce was in fact detrimental. Other times I needed to have a legit board sweep but had only Evacuation was Kiki-Jiki infinite (enough mana to play both parts twice), Seedborn+tap-token generator, and a few more. Meh, has been my reaction or just outright "Damn it. I wish I had any other card".
And of course Palinchron + Mana Reflection. It's sweet to cast any spell in your deck.
Now to find some Claims...
@ haddoukend
How has necropotence been working out for you? I think it's a fantastic card, but the triple mana cost seems to be hard to get. Resolving it is the awesomeness and is excellent in any stage of the game.Your thoughts?
Man, one of the instances I was talking about (regarding Evacuation) was when my buddy Tooth and Nailed for Kiki-Jiki/Pestermite, I cast Evac in response to him declaring attacks, and won the next turn.
As for Dream Halls, remember when you are playing it that it gives your opponents the same benefits, so be sure you have some way to deal with that.
Necropotence is Necropotence. Every time I play it it is degenerate. I don't keep it in my opening hand if I draw it, in most cases. If I see it early it ends up sitting in my hand for a few turns before I'm ready to cast it. It is not one of those cards that you should always cast the moment you draw it. Actually having the BBB has been a problem way less than the number of times I have been able to cast it and win the game because of it.
I think both of you should be running Gilded Drake. I ☺☺☺☺ing love Gilded Drake. He goes well with Crystal Shard, which has already been mentioned. Shard your E. Witness, your 'Don, your Woodfall Primus, your Duplicant, etc etc. The card is good enough that I rarely ever am able to keep it on the board. If it gets destroyed, oh well, it isn't vital to the deck.
Oracle of Mul Daya NEVER disappoints me, and you can't ever have too much ramp. If you encounter the problem where you are drawing too much of it, then you need more shuffle effects probably.
You guys both have pretty solid lists, they remind me of my first couple of drafts of the deck. Happy Hunting.
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"I will flay the skin from your flesh and the flesh from your bones and scrape your bones dry. And still you will not have suffered enough." -Greven il-Vec, to Gerrard
I was always wondering is dralnu good ?
What happens if opponent throws a random burn spell or a mass damage spell like chain reaction,comet storm or something big ?
Dont u get destroyed by that ?
He is worth the risk, I would think. It would be like not playing Necropotence because someone couldMindslaver or Sorin Markov you. You take a certain amount of risk for a really strong effect like that. There will be times where he gets burned, but you just gotta suck it up and sac some permanents. Shouldn't be too big a deal in a format with somanybigdudes already making you sac stuff anyways.
He gets infinitely better with Lightning Greaves.
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"I will flay the skin from your flesh and the flesh from your bones and scrape your bones dry. And still you will not have suffered enough." -Greven il-Vec, to Gerrard
Agree with what you said but the chances of dralnu getting burned are much higher than you getting slavered/markoved when you have necro out .
Anyway i understand what you mean though , high reward comes with high cost (or whatever lol) !
I will try him soon thx .
I'm not denying that Dralnu is more likely to get burned haha, just illustrating my point
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"I will flay the skin from your flesh and the flesh from your bones and scrape your bones dry. And still you will not have suffered enough." -Greven il-Vec, to Gerrard
Posting my revised list to keep track of the changes I've made. The new changes are proving to be quite superb, with Necrotic Ooze being an extraordinary creature with this iteration.
Some notable interactions that are highly efficient and of high quality:
Eternal Witness + Bounce/Recycle effect = Pick up any spent card from your graveyard.
Mind Over Matter + Arcanis/Necrotic Ooze(with Arcanis in the 'yard) = infinite win
Necrotic Ooze + almost any creature = a creature that can do nearly everything. It maximizes the efficiency of wraths and Mind Over Matter discard activations.
Mimic Vat = is sooooooooooooo indescribable in EDH. It goes in every single deck
Seedborn Muse + Bounce/Recycle effect + 187 creature counterspell = lock
Seedborn Muse + Leyline = a turn during every person's turn
Sadistic Hypnotist + Geth = you profit while forcing them to lose with their 187 creatures. Win.
Myojin + Bounce effect = permanent Mind Twist
Mana Reflection + Palinchron = Infinite Mana
I prefer to win with the maximum amount of efficiency and either totally dominate the board with Seedborn Muse or win infinitely. Cloudstone Curio has been incredible, my first taste of it by using Puppeteer Clique to steal a Hypnotist and make my opponents discard their hands. Mimic Vat has become a must-kill card in my group. The sac outlets are to make Mimic Vat more efficient as well as Necrotic Ooze.
Cards that I want to make room for:
Solemn Simulacrum
Lorthos, the Tidemaker
Memory Plunder
Dralnu, Lich Lord
Sakura Tribe-Elder
Treachery
Clone
Shriekmaw
Fleshbag Marauder
Blatant Thievery
Time Warp
Mystical Teachings
Primal Command
-Ink-Eyes for Geth
-Mystical Teachings for Praetors counsel when the new set comes out
-either cold eyed selkie or Shadowmage infiltrator for Mystical Tutor
Think about it, tutor for Praetors Counsel, cast it and get your tutor back along with the rest of your GY, tutor for recurring insight and get 14 more cards with infinite hand size.
Praetor's Counsel is nuts, I absolutely need to get my hands on that ASAP. Also, what are you cutting for Consecrated Sphinx when that comes out (I assume you are because the card is crazy as well). Is there anything else from MBS that is catching your eye?
I also run Vorosh and I was wondering if you could help me out with my list. I would love help with what to cut and what is unnecessary. Ill link to my thread as well as post the list here.
At the start of the game, my plan is to really focus on developing my mana. I am curious of a few things. First, am I running too many mana ramp spells? I currently run 8 (Ill check my actual decklist when I get home). Second, are they too expensive? I am extremely partial to the ramp spells which net me a card as well. Things like Cultivate/Kodama's Reach, Skyshroud Claim, Explosive Vegetation, Oracle of Mul Daya, Mana Reflection, and Primeval Titan all cost 3 or more. Is this too much? Should I be more focusing on tempo?
Do you think a creature recursion engine should be put in? I am thinking things like Genesis or Phyrexian Reclamation are things I could see adding. I just don't know if I can get creatures into my graveyard reliably in order to run them. I could add things like Buried Alive to tutor for Genesis and I could also cut down on the spell ramp for creature ramp to recur. I would have a way to get them in the graveyard though. Maybe I should add things like Survival of the Fittest or Greater Good? I don't know.
1 Vorosh, the Hunter
Lands
5 Island
2 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Marsh Flats
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Breeding Pool
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Twilight Mire
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Flooded Grove
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Tree of Tales
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Watery Grave
1 Strip Mine
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Academy Ruins
1 Tolaria West
1 Vesuva
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Dust Bowl
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1 Trinket Mage
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Mindleech Mass
1 Eternal Witness
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Acidic Slime
1 Terastodon
1 Wrexial, the Risen Deep
1 Trygon Predator
1 Primeval Titan
Misc. Enchantments
1 Treachery
1 Future Sight
1 Pernicious Deed
Card Draw
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Arcanis the Omnipotent
1 Shadowmage Infiltrator
1 Cold-Eyed Selkie
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Rhystic Study
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Recurring Insight
1 Mind Spring
Mana Accel./fixing
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sol Ring
1 Coalition Relic
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Explosive Vegetation
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Expedition Map
1 Mana Reflection
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sensei's Divining Top
Misc. Instants
1 Memory Plunder
1 Evacuation
Counterspells
1 Draining Whelk
1 Mystic Snake
1 Spelljack
1 Desertion
1 Cryptic Command
1 Hinder
Planeswalkers
1 Liliana Vess
Tutors
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
Sorceries
1 Damnation
1 Genesis Wave
1 Decree of Pain
1 Bribery
1 Blatant Thievery
1 Knowledge Exploitation
1 Primal Command
1 Restock
1 Tooth and Nail
1 All Suns' Dawn
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Time Stretch
1 Rite of Replication
Here is my Vorosh deck. I have it pretty much where I want it right now, although I am always open to suggestions. This deck operates mostly as GUB goodstuff, which in these colors means a ton of ramp to support huge creatures, counterspells, graveyard recursion, stealing, card draw etc. I seriously LOVE these colors. And to top it off I always have the huge threat of the "deal with me NOW" Vorosh if I need him.
Some card suggestions:
Crystal Shard - Consider this with either Draining Whelk or Mystic Snake. Reusable counterspells and with Seedborn Muse, that's a counter-lock that is nigh unbeatable.
Dralnu, Lich Lord - Casting Tooth and Nail twice is awesome. It also lets each spell you play come back twice. Primal Command twice seems pretty good since you can almost Plow Under a person and tutor for two creatures.
Damnation - Totally self-explanatory.
Lighthouse Chronologist - This card is like Seedborn #2. It is so good; active and unmolested (which happens fairly often), it breaks the game wide open. So good.
Voidslime - I have never been disappointed with this card. The mana cost is rarely an issue.
Arcanis, the Omnipotent - An excellent creature. He is usually targeted right away since the card advantage he can provide is phenomenal. And with Mind Over Matter, you go infinite.
Mana Reflection - Add it. It is truly a great card in this format, since the ring adds 4 and the Lotus adds 6.
Otherwise, your list is very similar to mine. I'm a little more counter heavy. but that's my play style. Get some Vorosh BS going down.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
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Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
Some more cards that I came across that you may or may not want to try:
Erratic Portal - similar to Crystal Shard, with creature counter-spells and Seedborn Muse it becomes a lock. That is my preferred way to win currently; am i a bad person?
Dregs of Sorrow - Removal stapled with some card draw. I have found it to be quite useful in a nonblack format.
Echo Mage - it seems really good being able to copy a spell several times during the course of a game. Time Stretch especially becomes a potent spell as does any of the solid sorceries you might be packing or your opponent's might be packing.
Sadistic Sacrament - really only good if you keep playing the same deck over and over. I play against my friend's Jenara. I hate seeing a T6 Emrakul; I always remove that and 2 of his infinite combos in the early stages. kicked, it just becomes pretty sweet.
Anyways, happy Vorosh-ing. Eat opponents.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
EDIT: A bounce spell with Eternal Witness. Think about it. Or a bounce effect and Terastodon. Or Emrakul. Or Myojin. It is awesome. And really excellent.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
So,
-1 Cold-Eyed Selkie
-1 Shadowmage Infiltrator
-1 Sylvan Scrying
+1 Mana Reflection
+1 Crystal Shard/Erratic Portal
+1 Lighthouse Chronologist- I also suggest testing this card. With the limited amount of spot removal in the early game, it can become active quickly and in the late-game is also a threat. Great card that seems almost perfectly suited for EDH; try it. I have had games where it degenerated into who had control of a Chronologist; Clones becoming copies and dying, Larking the Chronologist back over and over, it was an exhausting game. I won, because I kept the original.
Those are my suggestions anyways. Some more cards that I see you don't have that I play to great success:
Oracle of Mul Daya - the land ramping it can provide as a constant presence on the board is staggering sometimes. By T6, I once had 9 lands in play.
Temporal Adept - a recent discovery of mine, it does what Crystal Shard and the Portal do, but it can do it to your opponents' stuff too. Don't like them having lands? Bounce. Don't like that artifact? Bounce. With Mind Over Matter, it can create a large tempo for yourself.
Hope my suggestions help. Keep on Vorosh-ing.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
As soon as I can get my hands on those cards I will test them out. I'm finding that Selkie/Infiltrator are not nearly as good in multiplayer as they were in 1v1, so it's not a very painful cut.
Sylvan Scrying is a little tougher to cut. It helps me get Urborg/Coffers out, gets me reliquary tower after I cast Recurring Insight, etc. And Lighthouse Chronologist seems like it would have a huge target on its head. But it is worth a try.
I may be cutting Emrakul soon, but I want to crush a few more games before I stop being a jerk
And yeah thanks these are all great suggestions.
Lighthouse Chronologist does get an enormous target painted on its head. This is very true; I just lost to it after I tried removing it three times. It's still really good with a decent amount of permission/protection. Just depends on your play-style, I suppose. I'm more of a Spike player; I like to win gratuitously and with as much curb-stomping as possible (yes, I do play very competitively with two other guys who play the same way). However, Emrakul got Bribed too often for my taste.
Anyways, perhaps I could get a critique on my own list? Not trying to jack your thread, but maybe you can offer suggestions.
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Mindleech Mass
1 Terastodon
1 Palinchron
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 Dralnu, Lich Lord
1 Eternal Witness
1 Body Double
Lock Enablers
1 Lighthouse Chronologist
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Crystal Shard
1 Erratic Portal
1 Temporal Adept
Counter-Locks
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Mystic Snake
1 Ertai, Wizard Adept
1 Draining Whelk
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
Card Draw
1 Arcanis, the Omnipotent
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Trade Secrets
1 Future Sight
1 Jace's Ingenuity
1 Mind's Eye
1 Rhystic Study
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Mana Ramp
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Recross the Paths
1 Explosive Vegetation
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Mana Reflection
1 Sol Ring
1 Cultivate
1 Cryptic Command
1 Desertion
1 Voidslime
1 Hinder
1 Time Stop
1 Mindbreak Trap
Tutors
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Liliana Vess
1 Primal Command
1 Planar Portal
1 Tooth and Nail
Removal
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Capsize
1 Damnation
1 Evacuation
1 Spin into Myth
1 Putrefy
Phat Spells
1 Gather Specimens
1 Beacon of Tomorrows
1 Time Stretch
1 Blatant Thievery
1 Bribery
1 Rite of Replication
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Knowledge Exploitation
1 Mind Over Matter
1 Mind Shatter
Land
1 Vivid Grove
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Vivid Creek
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Breeding Pool
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Flooded Grove
1 Watery Grave
1 Twilight Mire
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Secluded Glen
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Bad River
1 Underground River
1 Salt Marsh
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Creeping Tar Pit
6 Island
4 Forest
4 Swamp
Some synergies that I would like to point out:
Seedborn Muse + Capsize = sheer depression for opponents.
Seedborn Muse + bounce effect + Counter-lock = Game Over.
Seedborn Muse + Planar Portal = Tutor every turn.
Mind Over Matter + Arcanis = Infinite Draw (Discard Ulamog at any iteration and you go infinite mana as well, infinite bounce, infinite mill).
Palinchron + Mana Reflection = Infinite Mana.
Myojin + bounce effect = almost a permanent Mind Twist. At every upkeep, if the Leyline is out.
Eternal Witness + bounce effect = recover any card.
Dralnu is just really good, most often flashbacking ramp spells, sometimes flashbacking tutors.
Leyline + Seedborn Muse = Almost like having a turn during every single opponents' turn. Really, really good.
Body Double after removing the divinity counter from Myojin is sweeet.
Some cards that I have included that I don't see in many other decks:
Trade Secrets - for political reasons, this card is excellent. And is also a really potent draw spell, usually netting between 4-8 cards for me. Almost says "Make a friend, draw into the lock".
Leyline of Anticipation - playing at instant speed cannot be described. It makes any spell that much better; playing Emrakul at the end of one of your opponents' turns? After they tapped out? ... sounds like scooping.
Recross the Paths - it gets any land at the expense of tucking some spells, but it can be clashed and recovered. I have never been sorry to see it.
Anyways, I appreciate any advice offered. Continue Vorosh-ing ftw!
EDIT: I'm in the market for a Top. It will instantly be there once I acquire one. Hmm, Acquire...
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Some changes to my list:
-1 Evacuation ( evacuating an Avenger of Zendikar does not solve the problem)
+1 Tunnel Vision
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
@ Op and Benjameen: Consider that Mana Reflection and Palinchron is infinite mana of any color. Skyshroud claim is one of the best ramp spells you can play. Gets your Breeding Pool and Overgrown Tomb, or just two regular forests, untapped. Another thing, I have tried to cut Evacuation so many times, and then play one more game with it in, just to see, and that game it ends up being a bomb. I rarely see it, but when I do it reminds me why I have never cut it. It is an instant speed board wipe, and I really don't think that you should cut it.
Also, feel free to take a peek at my list. It might give you guys some ideas.
EDH
GUBVorosh, the HunterGUB
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of JundBRG
GMolimo, Maro-SorcererG
UThada Adel, AcquisitorU list soon
BEndrek Sahr, Master BreederB
To further elaborate on your Arcanis + MoM combo, add in Library of Leng and Dream Halls and you play your entire deck for free.
EDH
GUBVorosh, the HunterGUB
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of JundBRG
GMolimo, Maro-SorcererG
UThada Adel, AcquisitorU list soon
BEndrek Sahr, Master BreederB
Dream Halls. I didn't even know that was a card. Wow. A slot just became open.
In regards to Evacuation, the example I gave has been one of many instances where the bounce was in fact detrimental. Other times I needed to have a legit board sweep but had only Evacuation was Kiki-Jiki infinite (enough mana to play both parts twice), Seedborn+tap-token generator, and a few more. Meh, has been my reaction or just outright "Damn it. I wish I had any other card".
And of course Palinchron + Mana Reflection. It's sweet to cast any spell in your deck.
Now to find some Claims...
@ haddoukend
How has necropotence been working out for you? I think it's a fantastic card, but the triple mana cost seems to be hard to get. Resolving it is the awesomeness and is excellent in any stage of the game.Your thoughts?
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
When I land this with a Reliquary Tower out when I have established a bunch of ramp or Urborg/Coffers it is normally game over. I can't imagine what it will do when I have mana reflection in the deck.
Any reason you aren't running Urborg/Coffers? When you have this out, you are only limited by how many big cards you have in your hand.
So I was playing tonight against Saffi, Omnath, and Jenara. It was like turn 30 or something (a really epik game with answers for bombs happening left and right) and Omnath was royally mana-screwed. I'm talking he had only 6 lands. On T30. It was awful for him. Anyways, I got Amnesia'd by Jenara and had no board presence. My top-deck was . . . Tooth and Nail. I windmilled that onto the table, immediately got up and did multiple fist pumps and ran around the table, screaming "YES!!" at the top of my lungs. I got Arcanis and Seedborn Muse. I still lost, because an large enough Akroma hit me and he pumped it even more massively. Sigh. It was a great play, and I thought I would share it.
I'm not running Coffers/Urborg because I never really thought about it. What can I use that massive amount of black mana for? I take that back. That is a dumb question. Realllly dumb question.
Thanks for the suggestions.
@ Logicx
Mindleech Mass is also really good. I played a person's Mind's Eye from their hand. For free. I added it from looking at your list. Good call.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
My analysis would tend to be fairly harsh, because it seems that each card by themselves don't do a whole lot without each other. But, that is the definition of a combo. Eh, I'm back and forth.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
I was getting sick of winning with them, it wasn't fun.
Man, one of the instances I was talking about (regarding Evacuation) was when my buddy Tooth and Nailed for Kiki-Jiki/Pestermite, I cast Evac in response to him declaring attacks, and won the next turn.
As for Dream Halls, remember when you are playing it that it gives your opponents the same benefits, so be sure you have some way to deal with that.
Necropotence is Necropotence. Every time I play it it is degenerate. I don't keep it in my opening hand if I draw it, in most cases. If I see it early it ends up sitting in my hand for a few turns before I'm ready to cast it. It is not one of those cards that you should always cast the moment you draw it. Actually having the BBB has been a problem way less than the number of times I have been able to cast it and win the game because of it.
I think both of you should be running Gilded Drake. I ☺☺☺☺ing love Gilded Drake. He goes well with Crystal Shard, which has already been mentioned. Shard your E. Witness, your 'Don, your Woodfall Primus, your Duplicant, etc etc. The card is good enough that I rarely ever am able to keep it on the board. If it gets destroyed, oh well, it isn't vital to the deck.
Oracle of Mul Daya NEVER disappoints me, and you can't ever have too much ramp. If you encounter the problem where you are drawing too much of it, then you need more shuffle effects probably.
You guys both have pretty solid lists, they remind me of my first couple of drafts of the deck. Happy Hunting.
EDH
GUBVorosh, the HunterGUB
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of JundBRG
GMolimo, Maro-SorcererG
UThada Adel, AcquisitorU list soon
BEndrek Sahr, Master BreederB
He is worth the risk, I would think. It would be like not playing Necropotence because someone could Mindslaver or Sorin Markov you. You take a certain amount of risk for a really strong effect like that. There will be times where he gets burned, but you just gotta suck it up and sac some permanents. Shouldn't be too big a deal in a format with so many big dudes already making you sac stuff anyways.
He gets infinitely better with Lightning Greaves.
EDH
GUBVorosh, the HunterGUB
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of JundBRG
GMolimo, Maro-SorcererG
UThada Adel, AcquisitorU list soon
BEndrek Sahr, Master BreederB
I'm not denying that Dralnu is more likely to get burned haha, just illustrating my point
EDH
GUBVorosh, the HunterGUB
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of JundBRG
GMolimo, Maro-SorcererG
UThada Adel, AcquisitorU list soon
BEndrek Sahr, Master BreederB
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Sol ring
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Explosive Vegetation
1 Mana Reflection
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Cultivate
1 Kodama's Reach
Removal
1 Terastodon
1 Acidic Slime
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Duplicant
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Damnation
1 Decree of Pain
Card Advantage
1 Rhystic Study
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Necropotence
1 Mind's Eye
1 Future Sight
1 Arcanis, the Omnipotent
1 Mulldrifter
1 Sphinx of Magosi
Tutors
1 Liliana Vess
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Planar Portal
1 Mystic Snake
1 Draining Whelk
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Ertai, Wizard Adept
1 Spelljack
1 Voidslime
1 Desertion
1 Hinder
1 Pact of Negation
Phat Creatures
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Palinchron
1 Body Double
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gilded Drake
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Necrotic Ooze
Phat Spells
1 Bribery
1 Time Stretch
1 Mind Over Matter
1 Capsize
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Leyline of Anticipation
Bounce/Recycle Effects
1 Mimic Vat
1 Crystal Shard
1 Erratic portal
1 Cloudstone Curio
1 Phyrexian Plaguelord
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
Lands
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Vivid Grove
1 Vivid Creek
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Flooded Grove
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Underground River
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Secluded Glen
1 Gilt-Leaf Palace
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Salt Marsh
1 City of Brass
4 Forest
3 Swamp
6 Island
Some notable interactions that are highly efficient and of high quality:
Eternal Witness + Bounce/Recycle effect = Pick up any spent card from your graveyard.
Mind Over Matter + Arcanis/Necrotic Ooze(with Arcanis in the 'yard) = infinite win
Necrotic Ooze + almost any creature = a creature that can do nearly everything. It maximizes the efficiency of wraths and Mind Over Matter discard activations.
Mimic Vat = is sooooooooooooo indescribable in EDH. It goes in every single deck
Seedborn Muse + Bounce/Recycle effect + 187 creature counterspell = lock
Seedborn Muse + Leyline = a turn during every person's turn
Sadistic Hypnotist + Geth = you profit while forcing them to lose with their 187 creatures. Win.
Myojin + Bounce effect = permanent Mind Twist
Mana Reflection + Palinchron = Infinite Mana
I prefer to win with the maximum amount of efficiency and either totally dominate the board with Seedborn Muse or win infinitely. Cloudstone Curio has been incredible, my first taste of it by using Puppeteer Clique to steal a Hypnotist and make my opponents discard their hands. Mimic Vat has become a must-kill card in my group. The sac outlets are to make Mimic Vat more efficient as well as Necrotic Ooze.
Cards that I want to make room for:
Solemn Simulacrum
Lorthos, the Tidemaker
Memory Plunder
Dralnu, Lich Lord
Sakura Tribe-Elder
Treachery
Clone
Shriekmaw
Fleshbag Marauder
Blatant Thievery
Time Warp
Mystical Teachings
Primal Command
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
-Mystical Teachings for Praetors counsel when the new set comes out
-either cold eyed selkie or Shadowmage infiltrator for Mystical Tutor
Think about it, tutor for Praetors Counsel, cast it and get your tutor back along with the rest of your GY, tutor for recurring insight and get 14 more cards with infinite hand size.
I also run Vorosh and I was wondering if you could help me out with my list. I would love help with what to cut and what is unnecessary. Ill link to my thread as well as post the list here.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=291573
1 Vorosh, the Hunter
Creatures (21)
1 Acidic Slime
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Eternal Witness
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Lighthouse Chronologist
1 Mulldrifter
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Mnemonic Wall
1 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, The Infinte Gyre
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Sphinx of Magosi
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Terastodon
1 Trygon Predator
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Mystic Snake
1 Thada Adel, Acquisitor
Artifacts (7)
1 Mind's Eye
1 Crystal Shard
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Erratic Portal
1 Sol Ring
1 Vedalken Orrery
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Mana Reflection
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Rhystic Study
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Sorin Markov
Sorceries (17)
1 All Suns' Dawn
1 All is Dust
1 Ambition's Cost
1 Cultivate
1 Damnation
1 Decree of Pain
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Explosive Vegetation
1 Exsanguinate
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Promise of Power
1 Restock
1 Recurring Insight
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Time Warp
Instants (11)
1 Desertion
1 Evacuation
1 Pact of Negation
1 Cryptic Command
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Force of Will
1 Relic Crush
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Capsize
1 Bayou
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Deserted Temple
1 Dimir Aqueduct
5 Forest
5 Island
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Strip Mine
4 Swamp
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Tolaria West
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Urbord, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Vesuva
1 Watery Grave
1 Wasteland
1 Yavimaya Hallow
At the start of the game, my plan is to really focus on developing my mana. I am curious of a few things. First, am I running too many mana ramp spells? I currently run 8 (Ill check my actual decklist when I get home). Second, are they too expensive? I am extremely partial to the ramp spells which net me a card as well. Things like Cultivate/Kodama's Reach, Skyshroud Claim, Explosive Vegetation, Oracle of Mul Daya, Mana Reflection, and Primeval Titan all cost 3 or more. Is this too much? Should I be more focusing on tempo?
Do you think a creature recursion engine should be put in? I am thinking things like Genesis or Phyrexian Reclamation are things I could see adding. I just don't know if I can get creatures into my graveyard reliably in order to run them. I could add things like Buried Alive to tutor for Genesis and I could also cut down on the spell ramp for creature ramp to recur. I would have a way to get them in the graveyard though. Maybe I should add things like Survival of the Fittest or Greater Good? I don't know.
My main win plan is Tooth and Nail. I usually get either Geth, Lord of the Vault/Seedborn Muse, Primeval Titan/Avenger of Zendikar, Seedborn Muse/Mystic Snake if I have Crystal Shard/Erratic Portal, or Ulamog/Terastodon if I want a threat and answers. I am starting to think this is a bit narrow, but it usually gets the job done. How are you winning your games? I play against a LOT of blue and 5c combo, so that may make a difference.
As much as I can, I want to get Mystic Snake/Glen Elendra Archmage and Crystal Shard/Erratic Portal and Seedborn Muse online ASAP. It usually wins the game if its out, but its hard to get down. I want to add Draining Welk once I get it.