Hello,
I have created a cube that is based on archetypes and on interesting cards rather than power. Here are the guidelines for card inclusion in my cube:
- Each card should be independently interesting. This means no to Lightning Bolt, yes to Shard Volley--which, while strictly worse, has occasional interactions with such cards as Flagstones of Trokair, Terravore, Worm Harvest, Knight of the Reliquary, Greenseeker, and Countryside Crusher. No to Wrath of God, yes to Martial Coup.
- Preferably, most/all cards will fit multiple archetypes. This is a very difficult criterion to meet for every single card, particularly aggro cards; it's more a guiding principle than an acheivable goal. A classic example is the inclusion of Martial Coup, which is good in both W-based control and WW/Soldiers.
- The main problem with the "independently interesting" and "multiple archetypes" criteria is that they are highly favorable to control decks because the more interesting/versatile controllish cards are also among the best, while the more interesting/versatile aggro cards (Burrenton Bombardier) are generally not. Some aggressive cards will have to be uninteresting, to maintain balance. Hence some cards like Elite Vanguard, Tattermunge Maniac, Goblin Guide.
- No deck should be composed entirely of a single theme. Without this criterion, "pick the Goblin" will become autopilot for people drafting goblins. There will not be enough burn cards to make a straight burn deck, and there will not be enough storm cards to create a storm deck. But decks in between can be drafted, and there are many cards that fit both excellently, for example: Chandra's Spitfire, Needle Drop, Staggershock, and Flame Jab all work well in both burn and storm. Same with Burn/Goblins, and Storm/Ramp, etc. etc. There will not be enough mill to make a turbo mill deck, but a blue-based control deck may have a strong mill component as a win condition. The inevitable exception to "no single theme" is 5-color control, by dint of lacking a theme; the power of 5-color control is something all cubes face and I am restricting this deck to some extent by reducing color fixers / acceleration.
- Each color combination should be viable
- No card should both fit in every deck and be a high pick (Moxen, Sol Ring, Icy Manipulator). Ideally, card power and versatility are inversely related. It's okay for a card to fit in every deck if it's a late pick / mediocre card (Primal Clay). It's also okay for a card to fit in a relative minority of decks and be powerful / a very high pick (Martial Coup, Tombstalker, Equilibrium).
- It's expected that for a 6-player draft, approximately 1/3 of the cube will be used, so the expected number of a particular kind of card (say, Goblins) is close to 1/3 of those in the cube. This has led to having many lords--even with 3 elf lords, only 1 is expected each draft. In an 8-player draft, almost 50% of the cards will be used, leading to significantly more focused decks. This is to some extent regrettable, but also inevitable. This isn't a card selection principle, but should be noted for those giving feedback.
- The more creatures, the better. Most of the unfun drafts I'm involved in have too few creatures. If most decks are around 17 land, 15 creatures, 8 spells, I'm happy. Too far afield of those numbers and things start to deteriorate.
The cube will be a success if, post-draft, players of all skill levels can identify mistakes in their drafting / gameplay and improve, and if the cube is markedly different in draft and play style than a 'typical' cube (of which there are plenty). Particularly players at high skill levels, since they have the most difficulty upping their game. Both drafting and gameplay should be challenging, interesting, and fun. No broken starts, only interesting cards.
I make changes to this fairly regularly, no reason you can't just see the file in progress. Ignore the colors, they are for my reference only.
You may also wish to look at it on tappedout.com. Although the bots are terrible, drafting it gives something of a flavor for the experience. That said, the bad bots can make it difficult to accurately evaluate the experience--late-pick Reveillarks happen all the time, for example, and cards you reasonably expect to wheel often don't.
This is not a complete list, and some are much better supported than others (Bant 187 is a fantastic deck, while there are only a few tribal rogue cards).
Lifegain
Mill / Cap Effects
Reanimator
Ramp
Enchantments
+1 / +1 counters (adding)
+1 / +1 counters (using)
Artifacts
Subtype: Equipment
Sacrifice
Madness / Hellbent / Self Discard
Sorcery / Storm (rebounds support)
Tokens
ETB / 187 and Self-Bounce/Flicker
Dredge
Clasm Red
Burn
Hasty Red
RG Fat
All in / Landsac / Lands in GY
Fog / Walls (Is this archetype fun?)
Power Matters
Unblocked/ Combat Damage Effects
Pingers
Hand Destruction
Tribal Wizards
Tribal Zombies
Tribal Elves
Tribal Goblins
Tribal Soldiers / White Weenie
Tribal Rogues
= Bounce and Creature Control
1 Curfew
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Aether Tradewinds
1 Mark of Eviction
1 Word of Undoing
1 Withdraw
1 Turbulent Dreams
1 Equilibrium
= Other
1 Zur's Wierding
1 Copy Artifact
1 Twincast
1 Distortion Strike
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Flash
1 Brain Freeze
1 Call to Mind
1 Steady Progress
= Auras
1 Infiltrator's Magemark
1 Leaden Fists
1 Sigil of Sleep
1 Freed from the Real
Feedback I'm looking for:
- Cards that would do well in multiple archetypes (see the archetypes section in the spreadsheet) that I am forgetting.
- "No matter how low the power level of the draft format, I don't think XXX card is playable, even with some of the enablers. I'd recommend replacing it with YYY, which works well with cards like ZZZ, AAA, and BBB."
- Archetypes that could be easily supported (or that are unwittingly supported), but are not explicitly supported.
- Archetypes that are lacking in cards, or that are too well-supported.
- Curve problems
- There are a few colors that are off on numbers (see the overview for desired numbers). A few cuts/additions are needed.
- More as I think of it.
Feedback I'm not looking for:
- "Savannah Lions is better than Mosquito Guard, so if you want the most powerful limited environment you can get, you'll run Savannah Lions."
- "You should look at (regular forum poster)'s cube, it's really good. Not what you're aiming for, but it's what I use and like."
- "I don't think this environment will be fun. I like to play with more powerful cards."
- "I'm not interested, and don't really have anything substantive to add, but I feel like posting anyways because I'm lonely."
While this is not very interesting for me, you might want to check out the "Skill cube" thread, which had a similar goal.
It should be fun to draft some narrow cards once or twice, but this is nothing that I would enjoy on a regular basis.
You do realize that the thread you mentioned was also Naill's? And why would you feel the need to point out your disinterest in a cube like this, especially after the OP specifically asked for people not to post responses like that? I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm just curious since this is a really common phenomenon on this forum, and it can be really disencouraging even if I'm only reading about someone else's cube.
And OP, could you please post your cubelist here too, with the cards tagged? The google sheet is great, but it'd be more helpful if I could check all the more obscure cards (and there's quite a few of them) more easily.
you might want to check out the "Skill cube" thread, which had a similar goal
This is the present form of the previous "SkillCube." The problem with that thread was that it devolved into a discussion of what is / is not skill-intensive, and that really wasn't the point. Also, there were extensive updates; probably only about half the cards remain.
Quote from atomikala »
And OP, could you please post your cubelist here too, with the cards tagged?
Done and done. I have updated the original post with a full breakdown of the card contents. That said, the google spreadsheet is more helpful for evaluating curves and seeing a color all at once. In the future, it will also be more up-to-date.
Oh sry, I didn't search for the cube, but just thought that this would be helpful.
Like I am also helping someone with the formating , or filtering some results for his pauper / peasant / modern cube even if I can't give him a good advise about his/her cards, since I am not familiar with the format.
I apologize as well, for coming off so snappy. I was a little cranky for reasons that had nothing to do with this forum and I think it reflected on how I expressed myself, even if I still think my concern is a valid one.
As for the cube itself... It's quite a challenge for me to wrap my head around, again.
A couple of card suggestions do come to mind, though. Novijen Sages would theoretically be great support for the +1/+1 counters -theme. It's a shame it's a little overcosted, at 3UU I think it would be much easier to include. :/
Lorescale Coatl might work as well, especially in Magical Christmas Land where it would always be on the table with Sage of Fables. Protean Hydra would also be funny with anything that eats +1/+1 counters. Ion Storm could be one such card, but it might be a bit too narrow, as awesome as it would be in theory.
Speaking of Sage of Fables, how about Etched Oracle? Its Planechase incarnation is conveniently even printed with the wizard-subtype it now has.
As for the themes, I'm slightly puzzled by life gain as a supported theme. I just can't see where that theme is going, apart from Ajani's Pridemate and Felidar Sovereign and I don't think those two are enough. Am I missing something?
Yes, there's a lot of cards that gain life one way or another, but that's not what I meant. I'm confused that there doesn't seem to be much to do with all that life, and it's just life gain for life gain's sake. I missed Ageless Entity, but it's still only three cards that really interact with gaining life.
edit: Speaking of which, Cradle of Vitality seems to be a glaring omission.
I think Tilling Treefolk would serve green's land theme well. Nantuko Cultivator would have synergy with land theme, +1/+1 counters and reanimator. It's tricky to use, but isn't that the whole point.
edit 2: A little brainfart there. Cultivator doesn't really help with reanimator all that much. Rites Of Spring and Mulch do, though.
The lifegain theme is indeed a tough one insofar as, while high life is nice, there are relatively few cards that turn high life totals into more tangible advantages like the Sovereign and the Pridemate do. Previously it was really just those two, Survival Cache, Feudkiller's Verdict, and Ageless Entity. Good catch! I've added Wild Dogs and Ghazban Ogre as a result, and that's cool because aggro can always use help. I suppose there's also Well of Lost Dreams, Sanguine Bond, and Cradle of Vitality, but these honestly aren't very useful outside of a deck with a very significant amount of lifegain, so I'm hesitant to add them.
Novijen Sages and Ion Storm are really just too expensive and narrow to see play. Etched Oracle, Lorescale Coatl, and Protean Hydra are all interesting and being considered, so thank you.
Tilling treefolk is a great card but one that's perhaps too focused. He could definitely go in for groundskeeper, but its hard to say that one's better than the other--groundskeeper works better with Retrace spells and other discard outlets. Is there something that should come out for them?
The wizard subtype is only relevant for a precious few cards: Sage of Fables, Aphetto Grifter, Sigil Tracer, Voidmage Prodigy, and Vedalken Aethermage. The only reason it's in the above "themes" list is that there's an area in the spreadsheet where I keep track of some of these interactions, in case something interesting crops up. It's not something I really try to push, as there are already three strong tribes (goblins, elves, soldiers) and one medium tribe (zombies). Aphetto grifter is on the chopping block; he just doesn't do much most of the time. Rogues are in a similar pinch, but I really like Oona's Blackguard and Earwig Squad and Auntie's Snitch, and they go well with the unblocked/unblockable stuff in U/B.
Oh, and Mulch is perfect. Almost certainly going in.
Here's a view on usefulness:
Cards like Cradle of Vitality are really only good in lifegain decks. But they're actually worse than that--they're only good in lifegain decks that can use +1/+1 counters. So the usefulness of the Cradle is only in decks that do BOTH.
Compare to, say, Ajani's Pridemate. He's a soldier, so if you manage to get a bunch of soldier pumps then he works simply as a grizzly bear with soldier type. Should you get a bunch of lifegain then he works there too. So the Pridemate is useful in decks that do EITHER.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Not forgetting Sylvan Library, which is already in.
I'm not sure I completely agree on Cradle Of Vitality. Even if you can't use the counters it provides for some specific purpose, they're still useful for making your creatures big and beating your opponent to a pulp. But it does cost a lot. And it's admittedly a little boring without those "specific purposes".
I'm probably going to add a few to my cube of 525 in exchange for some other cards that aren't working as well as I had hoped -- I particularly think Mogg War Marshall is worth testing.
out: Arctic Nishoba (need an interesting high-cc creature to replace him)
Broodhatch Nantuko (needed to cut green creatures, he was least synergistic)
Snarling Undorak (nobody ever runs this guy, for mostly good reason)
Aphetto Grifter (can't believe he was ever in)
Plaxcaster Frogling (3cc 3/3 isn't really good enough, and ability is meh)
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
out:
- Disciple of the Vault
He just doesn't do that much, even in the "artifact deck."
- Helium Squirter
Again, expensive and unwieldy, even in the "+1/+1 counter deck." Would probably be included if he gave all creatures w/+1/+1 counters flying as a static effect.
- Dream Stalker
There are plenty of cards to bounce your own creatures (Kor Skyfisher, Ninjas, Stampeding Serow, Shrieking Drake, Familiar's Ruse). Shrieking Drake and Grinning Ignus are better for storm enablers.
- Transmogrifying Licid
Again, both narrow and useless.
in:
1x Thrummingbird
Great in the +1/+1 counters deck. (No poison here, glad it doesn't have infect.)
1x Looter il-Kor
Needed another looter for madness/dredge. Needed a blue unblockables for ninjas and some of the enchants and equips (Sigil of Sleep, Farrel's Mantle, One with Nature, Destructive Urge, Necromantic Thirst, Celestial Mantle, Specter's Shroud, etc.). Note that the Thrummingbird also helps fill this latter duty as well.
Exchange:
Oxidda Scrapmelter for Ingot Chewer.
I think the ability to cast it cheaply makes for a more interesting card than the lower casting cost.
I am many cards over the quota in red, and the curve is off--I could use some help making cuts there.
Alrighty, we're undergoing changes every day. There are three reason here:
- Red is over in cards, and Blue was under.
- SoM additions
- I'm neurotic
Out:
Spitting Hydra.
It's really too expensive for what it does and is not as good / fun / interesting as Magmaw and Ancient Hydra.
Mogg Infestation
Too narrow, too weak. You rarely want to use it on either player, so it just ends up being unplayable.
Chopping Block:
- Anarchist and Scrivener. These guys are both so expensive that they're not really very playable except with Kiki-Jiki / Splinter Twin. I mostly like them as far as they help with the Ux spell-based control decks.
- Shrewd Hatchling. Sure, you can make him unblockable; and sure, he goes in the red/blue storm deck. The real problem is that he's just so LAME.
- Brighthearth Banneret. The +1/+1 counter thing isn't as relevant in red as it is in green and blue, and the casting cost reduction just isn't something that is worth running a 1/1 for most of the time.
In:
Molten Psyche
I'd been hoping for this kind of effect in Red--particularly one with discard rather than shuffle--for awhile. It would be nice if artifacts were more compatible with red. I'm open on hints here. Between this, Tolarian Winds, Windfall (if I put it in), Windfall Warrior, etc. actually did more--also looking for input on cards that can make these cards even better.
Call to Mind
Blue is short cards, and this works well with a lot of Blue's themes, from control to storm to aggro-bounce to dredge.
Preordain
Obviously should have been in the whole time. Enabler for so much blue; almost as versatile as Call to Mind.
Out:
Dust Elemental (too hard to use)
Molten Psyche (obvious)
Slice and Dice (too many red sweepers already)
Time of Need (not enough targets)
Powder Keg (too harsh on aggro)
Flagstones of Trokair (too limited in use)
Sporeback Troll (plenty of creatures with counters, but not good enough on his own to make the cut)
Leaden Fists (versatility does not quite make up for badness)
I'm going to think about the above question a bit, and then answer. I think right now it's a bit too unfriendly to people who don't know the archetypes / cards, so I might see what I can do to make that less of a problem. A lot of the cards are pretty obscure, and it's often hard to know what the strongest cards are from looking at a pack.
I'm also not sure about mimic vat (just put it in), it goes well in a lot of decks but.... well, it probably goes well in too many decks.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
Out:
Ulasht, the Hate Seed
Primal Clay
Pithing Needle
Explorer's Scope
Spellbinder
Anvil of Bogardan
Surestrike Trident
Leonin Shikari
Opal Caryatid
Eiganjo Free-Riders
Gossamer Chains
Porphyry Nodes
Celestial Mantle
Rootwater Diver
Mystic Speculation
Spellstutter Sprite
Flash
Curfew
Echo Tracer
Permafrost Trap
Mark of Eviction
Turbulent Dreams
Infiltrator's Magemark
Syphon Life
Shriveling Rot
Screams from Within
Necromantic Thirst
Zombie Trailblazer
Mortician Beetle
Dawn of the Dead
Sins of the Past
Rites of Initiation
Dwarven Vigilantes
Onslaught
Magnivore
World at War
Feral Contest
Elven Rite
Quest for the Gemblades
Sylvan Safekeeper
Kavu Lair
Dawnstrider
In:
Cinder Pyromancer
In general, still figuring out what to replace the cards with; these were the cards that were basically never going to make it into a deck.
So far we've drafted several times, though for some reason its often been too late at night for people to really think much. One goal of the cube is to generate abnormal interactions, so I suppose 1am is not the ideal time to begin drafts. In sum, because it's cardpool is so different from "normal" cubes, a lot of the normal deck archetypes that people take for granted don't work quite the same as they normally would. This is obviously intentional, but has its downsides as well, like when people are not on full steam.
I have created a cube that is based on archetypes and on interesting cards rather than power. Here are the guidelines for card inclusion in my cube:
- Each card should be independently interesting. This means no to Lightning Bolt, yes to Shard Volley--which, while strictly worse, has occasional interactions with such cards as Flagstones of Trokair, Terravore, Worm Harvest, Knight of the Reliquary, Greenseeker, and Countryside Crusher. No to Wrath of God, yes to Martial Coup.
- Preferably, most/all cards will fit multiple archetypes. This is a very difficult criterion to meet for every single card, particularly aggro cards; it's more a guiding principle than an acheivable goal. A classic example is the inclusion of Martial Coup, which is good in both W-based control and WW/Soldiers.
- The main problem with the "independently interesting" and "multiple archetypes" criteria is that they are highly favorable to control decks because the more interesting/versatile controllish cards are also among the best, while the more interesting/versatile aggro cards (Burrenton Bombardier) are generally not. Some aggressive cards will have to be uninteresting, to maintain balance. Hence some cards like Elite Vanguard, Tattermunge Maniac, Goblin Guide.
- No deck should be composed entirely of a single theme. Without this criterion, "pick the Goblin" will become autopilot for people drafting goblins. There will not be enough burn cards to make a straight burn deck, and there will not be enough storm cards to create a storm deck. But decks in between can be drafted, and there are many cards that fit both excellently, for example: Chandra's Spitfire, Needle Drop, Staggershock, and Flame Jab all work well in both burn and storm. Same with Burn/Goblins, and Storm/Ramp, etc. etc. There will not be enough mill to make a turbo mill deck, but a blue-based control deck may have a strong mill component as a win condition. The inevitable exception to "no single theme" is 5-color control, by dint of lacking a theme; the power of 5-color control is something all cubes face and I am restricting this deck to some extent by reducing color fixers / acceleration.
- Each color combination should be viable
- No card should both fit in every deck and be a high pick (Moxen, Sol Ring, Icy Manipulator). Ideally, card power and versatility are inversely related. It's okay for a card to fit in every deck if it's a late pick / mediocre card (Primal Clay). It's also okay for a card to fit in a relative minority of decks and be powerful / a very high pick (Martial Coup, Tombstalker, Equilibrium).
- It's expected that for a 6-player draft, approximately 1/3 of the cube will be used, so the expected number of a particular kind of card (say, Goblins) is close to 1/3 of those in the cube. This has led to having many lords--even with 3 elf lords, only 1 is expected each draft. In an 8-player draft, almost 50% of the cards will be used, leading to significantly more focused decks. This is to some extent regrettable, but also inevitable. This isn't a card selection principle, but should be noted for those giving feedback.
- The more creatures, the better. Most of the unfun drafts I'm involved in have too few creatures. If most decks are around 17 land, 15 creatures, 8 spells, I'm happy. Too far afield of those numbers and things start to deteriorate.
The cube will be a success if, post-draft, players of all skill levels can identify mistakes in their drafting / gameplay and improve, and if the cube is markedly different in draft and play style than a 'typical' cube (of which there are plenty). Particularly players at high skill levels, since they have the most difficulty upping their game. Both drafting and gameplay should be challenging, interesting, and fun. No broken starts, only interesting cards.
I make changes to this fairly regularly, no reason you can't just see the file in progress. Ignore the colors, they are for my reference only.
CUBE LINK
You may also wish to look at it on tappedout.com. Although the bots are terrible, drafting it gives something of a flavor for the experience. That said, the bad bots can make it difficult to accurately evaluate the experience--late-pick Reveillarks happen all the time, for example, and cards you reasonably expect to wheel often don't.
This is not a complete list, and some are much better supported than others (Bant 187 is a fantastic deck, while there are only a few tribal rogue cards).
Lifegain
Mill / Cap Effects
Reanimator
Ramp
Enchantments
+1 / +1 counters (adding)
+1 / +1 counters (using)
Artifacts
Subtype: Equipment
Sacrifice
Madness / Hellbent / Self Discard
Sorcery / Storm (rebounds support)
Tokens
ETB / 187 and Self-Bounce/Flicker
Dredge
Clasm Red
Burn
Hasty Red
RG Fat
All in / Landsac / Lands in GY
Fog / Walls (Is this archetype fun?)
Power Matters
Unblocked/ Combat Damage Effects
Pingers
Hand Destruction
Tribal Wizards
Tribal Zombies
Tribal Elves
Tribal Goblins
Tribal Soldiers / White Weenie
Tribal Rogues
1 Opal Caryatid
1 Frontline Strategist
1 Mosquito Guard
1 Cenn's Tactician
1 Goldmeadow Harrier
1 Martyr of Sands
1 Benevolent Bodyguard
1 Court Homunculus
1 Devoted Caretaker
1 Soul's Attendant
1 Kami of False Hope
1 Steppe Lynx
1 Elite Vanguard
= 2cc
1 Veteran Armorsmith
1 Kor Skyfisher
1 Whipcorder
1 Patrol Signaler
1 Auriok Steelshaper
1 Leonin Squire
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Knight of the White Orchid
1 Whitemane Lion
1 Leonin Shikari
1 Ajani's Pridemate
1 Warpriest of Thune
1 Auriok Bladewarden
1 Soulcatcher
1 Lone Missionary
1 Mirror Entity
1 Burrenton Bombardier
1 Veteran Swordsmith
1 Flickerwisp
1 Kor Sanctifiers
1 Kinsbaile Borderguard
1 Argivian Archaeologist
1 Monk Idealist
1 Order of Whiteclay
1 Stonecloaker
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Cloudchaser Kestrel
1 Twilight Drover
1 Jotun Owl Keeper
1 Aven Riftwatcher
1 Auramancer
1 Mobilization
= 4cc
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Galepowder Mage
1 Academy Rector
1 Eiganjo Free-Riders
1 Opal Titan
1 Sanctum Gargoyle
1 Wall of Reverence
1 Meadowboon
1 Celestial Crusader
1 Glimmerpoint Stag
1 Stormfront Riders
1 Knight-Captain of Eos
1 Archon of Redemption
1 Karmic Guide
1 Reveillark
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Totem-Guide Hartebeest
1 Razor Hippogrif
= 6cc
1 Darien, King of Kjeldor
1 Feudkiller's Verdict
1 Felidar Sovereign
1 Captain of the Watch
1 Nomad's Assembly
1 Gossamer Chains
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Pacifism
1 Temporal Isolation
1 Weight of Conscience
1 Prison Term
1 Arrest
1 Recumbent Bliss
1 Path to Exile
1 Judge Unworthy
1 Tariff
= Noncreature Removal
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Aura of Silence
1 Dispeller's Capsule
1 Embolden
1 Prismatic Strands
1 Harm's Way
1 Gleam of Resistance
1 Swell of Courage
1 Test of Faith
1 Momentary Blink
1 Carom
1 Blinding Beam
= Any Permanent Removal
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Oblivion Ring
= Tutors
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Proclamation of Rebirth
1 Death or Glory
= Enchantment Pumps
1 Marshal's Anthem
1 Celestial Mantle
1 Farrel's Mantle
= Sweepers
1 Porphyry Nodes
1 Martial Coup
1 Austere Command
= Other
1 Reaping the Rewards
1 Survival Cache
1 Scepter of Dominance
1 Dawn Charm
1 Angelic Chorus
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Hedron Crab
1 Drowned Rusalka
1 Rootwater Diver
1 Drowner Initiate
1 Enclave Cryptologist
1 Shrieking Drake
= 2cc
1 Spellstutter Sprite
1 Voidmage Prodigy
1 Voidmage Apprentice
1 Willbender
1 Vedalken Mastermind
1 Shapesharer
1 Plaxmanta
1 Rootwater Thief
1 Gilded Drake
1 Augury Owl
1 Vedalken Aethermage
1 Etherium Sculptor
1 Thrummingbird
1 Looter il-Kor
1 Trinket Mage
1 Sage of Fables
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Fatespinner
1 Sigil Tracer
1 Pestermite
1 Whirlpool Warrior
1 Mistblade Shinobi
1 Aether Adept
1 Surrakar Spellblade
1 Raven Guild Master
1 Riptide Entrancer
1 Riptide Survivor
1 Barrin, Master Wizard
1 Echo Tracer
1 Dream Thief
1 Master of Etherium
1 Grand Architect
= 4cc
1 Kaho, Minamo Historian
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Faerie Mechanist
1 Rite of Replication
1 Tradewind Rider
1 Dreamborn Muse
1 Somnophore
1 Ninja of the Deep Hours
1 Surgespanner
1 Cytoplast Manipulator
1 Vesuvan Shapeshifter
1 Djinn of Wishes
1 Scrivener
1 Body Double
1 Ixidron
1 Chromeshell Crab
= 6cc
1 Shoreline Ranger
1 Aethersnipe
1 Uyo, Silent Prophet
= 7cc
1 Maelstrom Djinn
Peeking / Cantripping
1 Ponder
1 Portent
1 Brainstorm
1 Peek
1 Predict
1 Mystic Speculation
1 Preordain
Non-Bounce Creature Control
1 Permafrost Trap
1 Domestication
1 Mind Games
Card Draw
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Recurring Insight
1 Thirst for Knowledge
Filtering
1 Tolarian Winds
1 Compulsion
Counterspells
1 Decree of Silence
1 Complicate
1 Traumatic Visions
1 Familiar's Ruse
1 Induce Paranoia
1 Memory Lapse
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Miscalculation
1 Logic Knot
1 Broken Ambitions
1 Deprive
= Charms and Choices
1 Piracy Charm
1 Cryptic Command
= Tutors
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Intuition
1 Merchant Scroll
= Bounce and Creature Control
1 Curfew
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Aether Tradewinds
1 Mark of Eviction
1 Word of Undoing
1 Withdraw
1 Turbulent Dreams
1 Equilibrium
= Other
1 Zur's Wierding
1 Copy Artifact
1 Twincast
1 Distortion Strike
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Flash
1 Brain Freeze
1 Call to Mind
1 Steady Progress
= Auras
1 Infiltrator's Magemark
1 Leaden Fists
1 Sigil of Sleep
1 Freed from the Real
1 Plagued Rusalka
1 Quest for the Gravelord
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Festering Goblin
1 Mortician Beetle
1 Guul Draz Vampire
1 Fume Spitter
= 2cc
1 Bloodghast
1 Apprentice Necromancer
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Pit Keeper
1 Cabal Interrogator
1 Undertaker
1 Nightscape Familiar
1 Shepherd of Rot
1 Skinthinner
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Headhunter
1 Weirding Shaman
1 Oona's Blackguard
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Nezumi Shortfang
1 Rotlung Reanimator
1 Cemetery Reaper
1 Coffin Queen
1 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
1 Doomed Necromancer
1 Pawn of Ulamog
1 Bone Dancer
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Necratog
1 Toshiro Umezawa
1 Auntie's Snitch
1 Zombie Trailblazer
1 Mindstab Thrull
1 Stinkweed Imp
1 Needle Specter
= 4cc
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Balthor the Defiled
1 Akuta, Born of Ash
1 Cabal Executioner
1 Marsh Flitter
1 Mortivore
1 Soul Snuffers
1 Order of Yawgmoth
1 Mindslicer
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Delver
1 Chainer, Dementia Master
1 Corpse Connoisseur
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Zombie Cutthroat
1 Woebearer
1 Earwig Squad
= 6cc
1 Twisted Abomination
1 Grixis Slavedriver
1 Extractor Demon
= 8cc
1 Pestilence Demon
1 Tombstalker
1 Smother
1 Death Rattle
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Feast or Famine
1 Brainspoil
1 Ichor Slick
1 Corpsehatch
1 Urborg Justice
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Gaze of Pain
1 Strangling Soot
= Hand Destruction
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Duress
1 Blackmail
1 Raven's Crime
1 Delirium Skeins
= Life Drain
1 Absorb Vis
1 Syphon Life
1 Spinning Darkness
1 Morbid Hunger
1 Makeshift Mannequin
1 Unearth
1 Vigor Mortis
1 Exhume
1 Dread Return
1 Dawn of the Dead
1 Reanimate
1 Necromancy
= Recursion
1 Grim Harvest
1 Oath of Ghouls
1 Necromantic Thirst
1 Grim Discovery
= Charms and Choices
1 Funeral Charm
1 Profane Command
1 Promise of Power
1 Betrayal of Flesh
1 Midnight Charm
1 Shred Memory
1 Suffer the Past
= Card Drawing and Tutoring
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Sins of the Past
1 Skeletal Scrying
= Creature Unblockable
1 Dirge of Dread
1 Aphotic Wisps
= Sweepers
1 Decree of Pain
1 Shriveling Rot
1 Do or Die
1 Wail of the Nim
1 Screams from Within
1 Necrotic Plague
1 Smallpox
= Tokens
1 Tombstone Stairwell
1 Frenzied Goblin
1 Goblin Bushwhacker
1 Goblin Sledder
1 Scorched Rusalka
1 Intimidator Initiate
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Martyr of Ashes
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Orcish Lumberjack
1 Skitter of Lizards
1 Genju of the Spires
1 Mogg Fanatic
1 Goblin Guide
1 Spikeshot Elder
= 2
1 Ashling the Pilgrim
1 Skirk Marauder
1 Hellspark Elemental
1 Brighthearth Banneret
1 Kiln Fiend
1 Slavering Nulls
1 Fire-Belly Changeling
1 Slith Firewalker
1 Warren Instigator
1 Ember Hauler
1 Keldon Marauders
1 Goblin Tunneler
1 Mogg War Marshal
1 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Matron
1 Arms Dealer
1 Sensation Gorger
1 Skirk Commando
1 Spikeshot Goblin
1 Zo-Zu the Punisher
1 Hell's Thunder
1 Chandra's Spitfire
1 Grinning Ignus
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Dwarven Vigilantes
1 Countryside Crusher
1 Gathan Raiders
1 Viashino Sandstalker
1 Goblin Chieftain
= 4
1 Skirk Volcanist
1 Magnivore
1 Changeling Berserker
1 Rabble-Rouser
1 Goblin Razerunners
1 Blistering Firecat
1 Stone Giant
1 Volcano Hellion
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Anarchist
1 Magmaw
1 Ancient Hydra
1 Magmasaur
1 Ingot Chewer
= 6
1 Firemaw Kavu
1 Chartooth Cougar
1 Rapacious One
= 7
1 Knollspine Dragon
1 Shard Volley
1 Firebolt
1 Magma Burst
1 Dead / Gone
1 Magma Jet
1 Fiery Fall
1 Solar Blast
1 Soulblast
1 Thunderblade Charge
1 Soul's Fire
1 Grapeshot
1 Rekindled Flame
1 Blast from the Past
1 Searing Blaze
1 Staggershock
1 Fiery Temper
1 Punishing Fire
1 Flame Jab
1 Needle Drop
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Lust for War
1 Pandemonium
1 World at War
1 Furnace Celebration
= Tokens
1 Goblin Assault
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Devastating Summons
= Combat Tricks / Pumps
1 Mark of Mutiny
1 Balduvian Rage
1 Reckless Charge
1 Deadshot
1 Haze of Rage
1 Seething Anger
1 Rites of Initiation
= Charms and Choices
1 Incendiary Command
= Artifact and Land Removal
1 Pillage
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Boom / Bust
1 Destructive Urge
1 Fury Charm
1 Gamble
= Creature Pumps
1 Immolation
1 Flowstone Blade
1 Splinter Twin
= Sweepers
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Rough / Tumble
1 Kindle the Carnage
1 Rupture
= Spell Copying / Redirecting
1 Wild Ricochet
1 Recoup
1 Reverberate
1 Surreal Memoir
= Can't Block
1 Wrap in Flames
1 Stun
1 Onslaught
1 Joraga Warcaller
1 Arbor Elf
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Groundskeeper
1 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Essence Warden
1 Genju of the Cedars
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Ghazban Ogre
1 Wild Dogs
1 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
= 2cc
1 Bramblewood Paragon
1 Sylvan Ranger
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Hermit Druid
1 Dawnstrider
1 Nest Invader
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Wall of Roots
1 Overgrown Battlement
1 Aquastrand Spider
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Wild Mongrel
1 Vinelasher Kudzu
1 Imperious Perfect
1 Elvish Harbinger
1 Jagged-Scar Archers
1 Yavimaya Granger
1 Mul Daya Channeler
1 Hunting Moa
1 Grazing Gladehart
1 Terravore
1 Spike Feeder
1 Krosan Warchief
1 Fertilid
1 Aura Gnarlid
1 Caller of the Claw
1 Fierce Empath
1 Thornscape Battlemage
1 Elvish Archdruid
1 Tilling Treefolk
= 4cc
1 Ravenous Baloth
1 Kozilek's Predator
1 Spike Weaver
1 Sporeback Troll
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Stampeding Serow
1 Llanowar Empath
1 Briarhorn
1 Mold Shambler
1 Hunting Triad
1 Ambush Commander
1 Ageless Entity
1 Spike Tiller
1 Mycoloth
1 Garruk's Packleader
1 Beast Attack
1 Grizzly Fate
1 Golgari Grave-Troll
= 6cc
1 Phantom Wurm
1 Paleoloth
= 7cc
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Spearbreaker Behemoth
1 Protean Hulk
= 8cc
1 Terastodon
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Gather Courage
1 Vines of Vastwood
1 Earthbrawn
1 Sylvan Might
1 Ferocious Charge
1 Primal Boost
1 Bounty of the Hunt
Weak Removal
1 Vivify
1 Feral Contest
1 Provoke
1 Predatory Urge
Mana Ramping & Fixing
1 Edge of Autumn
1 One With Nature
1 Harrow
1 Growth Spasm
1 Awakening Zone
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Mulch
1 Nostalgic Dreams
1 Regrowth
1 Life From the Loam
Noncreature Removal
1 Naturalize
1 Creeping Mold
1 Kudzu
Charms and Choices
1 Evolution Charm
1 Primal Command
Fog
1 Constant Mists
1 Moment's Peace
Creature Tutors
1 Hibernation's End
1 Chord of Calling
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Natural Order
1 Epic Proportions
1 Narcissism
1 Elven Rite
1 Moldervine Cloak
1 Quest for the Gemblades
Other
1 Kavu Lair
1 Bind
1 Sylvan Bounty
Sweepers
1 Claws of Wirewood
1 Hurricane
1 Myr Retriever
1 Millikin
1 Arcbound Slith
1 Jhoira's Toolbox
1 Steel Overseer
1 Copper Myr
1 Silver Myr
1 iron Myr
1 Gold Myr
1 Leaden Myr
1 Pilgrim's Eye
1 Scuttlemutt
1 Scarecrone
1 Lurebound Scarecrow
= 4cc
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Primal Clay
1 Mindless Automaton
1 Arcbound Reclaimer
1 Lodestone Golem
1 Tek
1 Clockwork Hydra
= 6cc
1 Triskelion
= 7cc
1 Pentavus
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Zuran Orb
= 1cc
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Scrabbling Claws
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Expedition Map
= 2cc
1 Anvil of Bogardan
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Altar of Dementia
1 Mesmeric Orb
1 Mind Stone
1 Guardian Idol
1 Prophetic Prism
1 Prismatic Lens
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Contagion Clasp
= 3cc
1 Dragon Blood
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Tangle Wire
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Crystal ball
1 Mimic Vat
= 4cc
1 Jester's Cap
1 Soul Foundry
1 O-Naginata
1 Runed Stalactite
1 Blade of the Bloodchief
1 Explorer's Scope
1 Adventuring Gear
= 2cc
1 Cranial Plating
1 Leering Emblem
1 Surestrike Trident
1 Specter's Shroud
1 Livewire Lash
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Spellbinder
1 Sunforger
1 Ensouled Scimitar
1 Pennon Blade
= 4cc
1 Sword of the Paruns
1 Opaline Bracers
1 Grappling Hook
1 Bant Panorama
1 Esper Panorama
1 Grixis Panorama
1 Jund Panorama
1 Naya Panorama
= Creature Lands
1 Zoetic Cavern
1 Gargoyle Castle
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Raging Ravine
1 Mutavault
= Hideaway Lands
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Spinerock Knoll
1 Windbrisk Heights
1 Howltooth Hollow
= Ravnica Duals
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
1 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
1 Windswept Heath
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
= 5-Color Lands
1 City of Brass
1 Ancient Ziggurat
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Rupture Spire
1 Terramorphic Expanse
= Cycling Lands
1 Barren Moor
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Tranquil Thicket
= Ravnica Bounce Lands
1 Gruul Turf
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Golgari Rot-Farm
1 Boros Garrison
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Smoldering Spires
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Academy Ruins
1 Soldevi Excavations
1 Rustic Clachan
1 Llanowar Reborn
1 Keldon Megaliths
1 Hanna, Ship's Navigator
1 Pride of the Clouds
1 Aven Mimeomancer
1 Venser, the Sojourner
1 Ethersworn Shieldmage
1 Sanctum Plowbeast
1 Azorius Guildmage
1 Repel Intruders
= WB
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Necromancer's Covenant
1 Debtor's Knell
1 Gwyllion Hedge-Mage
= WR
1 Goblin Legionnaire
1 Brion Stoutarm
1 Master Warcraft
1 Balefire Liege
1 Figure of Destiny
1 Rise of the Hobgoblins
= WG
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Mycoid Shepherd
1 Fleetfoot Panther
1 Sterling Grove
1 Pale Recluse
1 Safehold Elite
1 Selesnya Guildmage
= UB
1 Lich-Lord of Unx
1 Architects of Will
1 Sphinx Summoner
1 Dimir Doppelganger
1 Jhessian Zombies
1 Spite / Malice
1 Dimir Guildmage
1 Sygg, River Cutthroat
1 Wee Dragonauts
1 Tibor and Lumia
1 Gelectrode
1 Fire / Ice
1 Izzet Guildmage
1 Shrewd Hatchling
= UG
1 Mystic Snake
1 Voidslime
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Lorescale Coatl
1 Cold Eyed Selkie
1 Simic Guildmage
= BR
1 Deathbringer Thoctar
1 Rakdos Augermage
1 Blazing Specter
1 Hellhole Rats
1 Igneous Pouncer
1 Pain / Suffering
1 Rakdos Guildmage
1 Murderous Redcap
= BG
1 Llanowar Dead
1 Squandered Resources
1 Woodwraith Corrupter
1 Life / Death
1 Golgari Guildmage
1 Worm Harvest
= GR
1 Shivan Wurm
1 Ulasht, the Hate Seed
1 Fires of Yavimaya
1 Valley Rannet
1 Gruul Guildmage
1 Wort, the Raidmother
1 Tattermunge Maniac
1 Manamorphose
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Bant Charm
1 Supply / Demand
1 Angus Mackenzie
= Esper
1 Esper Charm
1 Trial / Error
1 Sharuum the Hegemon
= Grixis
1 Grixis Charm
1 Rise / Fall
1 Sedris, the Traitor King
= Jund
1 Jund Charm
1 Hit / Run
1 Charnelhoard Wurm
= Naya
1 Naya Charm
1 Pure / Simple
1 Realm Razer
Feedback I'm looking for:
- Cards that would do well in multiple archetypes (see the archetypes section in the spreadsheet) that I am forgetting.
- "No matter how low the power level of the draft format, I don't think XXX card is playable, even with some of the enablers. I'd recommend replacing it with YYY, which works well with cards like ZZZ, AAA, and BBB."
- Archetypes that could be easily supported (or that are unwittingly supported), but are not explicitly supported.
- Archetypes that are lacking in cards, or that are too well-supported.
- Curve problems
- There are a few colors that are off on numbers (see the overview for desired numbers). A few cuts/additions are needed.
- More as I think of it.
Feedback I'm not looking for:
- "Savannah Lions is better than Mosquito Guard, so if you want the most powerful limited environment you can get, you'll run Savannah Lions."
- "You should look at (regular forum poster)'s cube, it's really good. Not what you're aiming for, but it's what I use and like."
- "I don't think this environment will be fun. I like to play with more powerful cards."
- "I'm not interested, and don't really have anything substantive to add, but I feel like posting anyways because I'm lonely."
Thanks all
You do realize that the thread you mentioned was also Naill's? And why would you feel the need to point out your disinterest in a cube like this, especially after the OP specifically asked for people not to post responses like that? I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm just curious since this is a really common phenomenon on this forum, and it can be really disencouraging even if I'm only reading about someone else's cube.
And OP, could you please post your cubelist here too, with the cards tagged? The google sheet is great, but it'd be more helpful if I could check all the more obscure cards (and there's quite a few of them) more easily.
This is the present form of the previous "SkillCube." The problem with that thread was that it devolved into a discussion of what is / is not skill-intensive, and that really wasn't the point. Also, there were extensive updates; probably only about half the cards remain.
Done and done. I have updated the original post with a full breakdown of the card contents. That said, the google spreadsheet is more helpful for evaluating curves and seeing a color all at once. In the future, it will also be more up-to-date.
I apologize as well, for coming off so snappy. I was a little cranky for reasons that had nothing to do with this forum and I think it reflected on how I expressed myself, even if I still think my concern is a valid one.
As for the cube itself... It's quite a challenge for me to wrap my head around, again.
A couple of card suggestions do come to mind, though. Novijen Sages would theoretically be great support for the +1/+1 counters -theme. It's a shame it's a little overcosted, at 3UU I think it would be much easier to include. :/
Lorescale Coatl might work as well, especially in Magical Christmas Land where it would always be on the table with Sage of Fables.
Speaking of Sage of Fables, how about Etched Oracle? Its Planechase incarnation is conveniently even printed with the wizard-subtype it now has.
As for the themes, I'm slightly puzzled by life gain as a supported theme. I just can't see where that theme is going, apart from Ajani's Pridemate and Felidar Sovereign and I don't think those two are enough. Am I missing something?
Yes, there's a lot of cards that gain life one way or another, but that's not what I meant. I'm confused that there doesn't seem to be much to do with all that life, and it's just life gain for life gain's sake. I missed Ageless Entity, but it's still only three cards that really interact with gaining life.
edit: Speaking of which, Cradle of Vitality seems to be a glaring omission.
I think Tilling Treefolk would serve green's land theme well. Nantuko Cultivator would have synergy with land theme, +1/+1 counters
and reanimator. It's tricky to use, but isn't that the whole point.edit 2: A little brainfart there. Cultivator doesn't really help with reanimator all that much. Rites Of Spring and Mulch do, though.
Novijen Sages and Ion Storm are really just too expensive and narrow to see play. Etched Oracle, Lorescale Coatl, and Protean Hydra are all interesting and being considered, so thank you.
Tilling treefolk is a great card but one that's perhaps too focused. He could definitely go in for groundskeeper, but its hard to say that one's better than the other--groundskeeper works better with Retrace spells and other discard outlets. Is there something that should come out for them?
The wizard subtype is only relevant for a precious few cards: Sage of Fables, Aphetto Grifter, Sigil Tracer, Voidmage Prodigy, and Vedalken Aethermage. The only reason it's in the above "themes" list is that there's an area in the spreadsheet where I keep track of some of these interactions, in case something interesting crops up. It's not something I really try to push, as there are already three strong tribes (goblins, elves, soldiers) and one medium tribe (zombies). Aphetto grifter is on the chopping block; he just doesn't do much most of the time. Rogues are in a similar pinch, but I really like Oona's Blackguard and Earwig Squad and Auntie's Snitch, and they go well with the unblocked/unblockable stuff in U/B.
Oh, and Mulch is perfect. Almost certainly going in.
Cards like Cradle of Vitality are really only good in lifegain decks. But they're actually worse than that--they're only good in lifegain decks that can use +1/+1 counters. So the usefulness of the Cradle is only in decks that do BOTH.
Compare to, say, Ajani's Pridemate. He's a soldier, so if you manage to get a bunch of soldier pumps then he works simply as a grizzly bear with soldier type. Should you get a bunch of lifegain then he works there too. So the Pridemate is useful in decks that do EITHER.
What we want are cards like Ajani's Pridemate.
Also Searing Meditation.
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I'm not sure I completely agree on Cradle Of Vitality. Even if you can't use the counters it provides for some specific purpose, they're still useful for making your creatures big and beating your opponent to a pulp. But it does cost a lot. And it's admittedly a little boring without those "specific purposes".
How about keeping Groundskeeper in and cutting Arctic Nishoba for Tilling Treefolk? Then maybe adding things like Lightning Axe and Merfolk Looter / Thought Courier to increase discard outlets? I could see a weird archetype evolving in (mainly) UG around all the land trickery (and Trade Routes, but that may be yet another card that doesn't stand too well on its own... ) Storm Cauldron also comes to mind, as do Explore, Exploration, Horn Of Greed, Summerbloom, Vinelasher Kudzu, Seer's Sundial. and a whole bunch of other landfall cards, of which Avenger Of Zendikar (+1/+1 counters and tokens), Rampaging Baloths (tokens) and Eternity Vessel (lifegain!
These are all pretty awesome suggestions.
I'm probably going to add a few to my cube of 525 in exchange for some other cards that aren't working as well as I had hoped -- I particularly think Mogg War Marshall is worth testing.
Mulch
Tilling Treefolk
Vinelasher Kudzu
Lorescale Coatl
Mogg War Marshal
out: Arctic Nishoba (need an interesting high-cc creature to replace him)
Broodhatch Nantuko (needed to cut green creatures, he was least synergistic)
Snarling Undorak (nobody ever runs this guy, for mostly good reason)
Aphetto Grifter (can't believe he was ever in)
Plaxcaster Frogling (3cc 3/3 isn't really good enough, and ability is meh)
Need to cut several red cards.
- Disciple of the Vault
He just doesn't do that much, even in the "artifact deck."
- Helium Squirter
Again, expensive and unwieldy, even in the "+1/+1 counter deck." Would probably be included if he gave all creatures w/+1/+1 counters flying as a static effect.
- Dream Stalker
There are plenty of cards to bounce your own creatures (Kor Skyfisher, Ninjas, Stampeding Serow, Shrieking Drake, Familiar's Ruse). Shrieking Drake and Grinning Ignus are better for storm enablers.
- Transmogrifying Licid
Again, both narrow and useless.
in:
1x Thrummingbird
Great in the +1/+1 counters deck. (No poison here, glad it doesn't have infect.)
1x Looter il-Kor
Needed another looter for madness/dredge. Needed a blue unblockables for ninjas and some of the enchants and equips (Sigil of Sleep, Farrel's Mantle, One with Nature, Destructive Urge, Necromantic Thirst, Celestial Mantle, Specter's Shroud, etc.). Note that the Thrummingbird also helps fill this latter duty as well.
Exchange:
Oxidda Scrapmelter for Ingot Chewer.
I think the ability to cast it cheaply makes for a more interesting card than the lower casting cost.
I am many cards over the quota in red, and the curve is off--I could use some help making cuts there.
- Red is over in cards, and Blue was under.
- SoM additions
- I'm neurotic
Out:
Spitting Hydra.
It's really too expensive for what it does and is not as good / fun / interesting as Magmaw and Ancient Hydra.
Mogg Infestation
Too narrow, too weak. You rarely want to use it on either player, so it just ends up being unplayable.
Chopping Block:
- Anarchist and Scrivener. These guys are both so expensive that they're not really very playable except with Kiki-Jiki / Splinter Twin. I mostly like them as far as they help with the Ux spell-based control decks.
- Shrewd Hatchling. Sure, you can make him unblockable; and sure, he goes in the red/blue storm deck. The real problem is that he's just so LAME.
- Brighthearth Banneret. The +1/+1 counter thing isn't as relevant in red as it is in green and blue, and the casting cost reduction just isn't something that is worth running a 1/1 for most of the time.
In:
Molten Psyche
I'd been hoping for this kind of effect in Red--particularly one with discard rather than shuffle--for awhile. It would be nice if artifacts were more compatible with red. I'm open on hints here. Between this, Tolarian Winds, Windfall (if I put it in), Windfall Warrior, etc. actually did more--also looking for input on cards that can make these cards even better.
Call to Mind
Blue is short cards, and this works well with a lot of Blue's themes, from control to storm to aggro-bounce to dredge.
Preordain
Obviously should have been in the whole time. Enabler for so much blue; almost as versatile as Call to Mind.
Considering:
Windfall
I would classify plaxmanta as either a blue instant or a UG creature. But not as a U creature.
Plus, here's //gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&text=+[transmute">"]some more cards that can support tricksy decks.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
Out:
Dust Elemental (too hard to use)
Molten Psyche (obvious)
Slice and Dice (too many red sweepers already)
Time of Need (not enough targets)
Powder Keg (too harsh on aggro)
Flagstones of Trokair (too limited in use)
Sporeback Troll (plenty of creatures with counters, but not good enough on his own to make the cut)
Leaden Fists (versatility does not quite make up for badness)
In:
Glimmerpoint Stag
Spikeshot Elder
Viashino Sandstalker
Goblin Cheiftain
Furnace Celebration
Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
Contagion Clasp
Mimic Vat
Soul Foundry
Livewire Lash
Nim Deathmantle
I'm going to think about the above question a bit, and then answer. I think right now it's a bit too unfriendly to people who don't know the archetypes / cards, so I might see what I can do to make that less of a problem. A lot of the cards are pretty obscure, and it's often hard to know what the strongest cards are from looking at a pack.
I'm also not sure about mimic vat (just put it in), it goes well in a lot of decks but.... well, it probably goes well in too many decks.
Ulasht, the Hate Seed
Primal Clay
Pithing Needle
Explorer's Scope
Spellbinder
Anvil of Bogardan
Surestrike Trident
Leonin Shikari
Opal Caryatid
Eiganjo Free-Riders
Gossamer Chains
Porphyry Nodes
Celestial Mantle
Rootwater Diver
Mystic Speculation
Spellstutter Sprite
Flash
Curfew
Echo Tracer
Permafrost Trap
Mark of Eviction
Turbulent Dreams
Infiltrator's Magemark
Syphon Life
Shriveling Rot
Screams from Within
Necromantic Thirst
Zombie Trailblazer
Mortician Beetle
Dawn of the Dead
Sins of the Past
Rites of Initiation
Dwarven Vigilantes
Onslaught
Magnivore
World at War
Feral Contest
Elven Rite
Quest for the Gemblades
Sylvan Safekeeper
Kavu Lair
Dawnstrider
In:
Cinder Pyromancer
In general, still figuring out what to replace the cards with; these were the cards that were basically never going to make it into a deck.
So far we've drafted several times, though for some reason its often been too late at night for people to really think much. One goal of the cube is to generate abnormal interactions, so I suppose 1am is not the ideal time to begin drafts. In sum, because it's cardpool is so different from "normal" cubes, a lot of the normal deck archetypes that people take for granted don't work quite the same as they normally would. This is obviously intentional, but has its downsides as well, like when people are not on full steam.
out:
Furnace Celebration
chopping block:
Deadshot
Sage of Fables
copy Artifact
Leering Emblem
Rakdos Augurmage
Pawn of Ulamog
in:
Sea Drake
Greater Gargadon
Could definitely use some help cutting red and adding 1-2 cards of each of the other colors, I think I'm going to cut down to 105 cards of each color.
Note that the list on the front is now woefully out of date, I'll update it at some point.