In your build, I would splash for Venser, the Sojourner. I like the idea of blinking out a manic vandal and popping new targets with liquimetal coating. It would combo nicely with the contagion clasp and trinket mage also, and a good way to use the fully loaded lux cannon, then send it away so it returns untapped to start adding counters again.
Gives you back good old stone rain in standard if you go turn 2 liquimetal, turn 3 manic vandal. Also adding the splinter twin gives us useful recursion of our tricks, and an all out win con with the myr galvanizer and either mana myr
If myr aren't your thing(i gotta admit I love these because I was a huge kiki-jiki+pestermite dork) these spots could be 4 sea gate oracles and lightning bolts.
Edit: If you have Jace 2.0 he should probably be a 3 of in the spots of galvanizer. I would also then run 2 foresee and 3 sea gate oracle instead of the rest of the myr(-2 mountains, +1 island, +1 evolving wild). You really want/need the dig in order to find the liquimetal coatings. Jace bouncing your own dudes to replay and nuke is pure awesome.
Your version Clownbaby really appeals to me. And it's a deck I will be able to make in time for the States without needing to buy all the overpriced card.
It's been pretty effective so far at keeping lands down to a minimum. Plus I think heavy artifact control is necessary in this new meta, so a lot of these guys double as arty removal. SB could use some tweaking, and my lands are in need of 2 more Rootbound Crags.
I don't want to have to much artifact removal only spells since it'll be a dead draw without Liquidmetal Coating on the field.
***edit***
And Acidic Slime, Demolish hit artifacts as well so it would really be 11 cards that synergize with the Coating. Can be used for PW cleanup and creature control.
Keep in mind you can still play the creatures, as their effects are "come into play" effects, and do not necessarily need a target (if there is just 1 artifact out, they need to target it, with the exception of the Tuktuk Scrapper). So they aren't completely dead draws in that regard, kind of bad creatures for their mana cost...but can provide you with board presence even without Liquimetal Coating.
This is why I went with a R/U build instead of a R/G build. U gives us access to draw spells like preordain and Sea Gate Oracle (and Jace 2.0 if you can afford it) and counter control cards like Mana Leak, Dispel, Spell Pierce and Turn Aside, providing the ability to stall and draw the cards you need in order to make your deck more synergistic.
No blue. "But, they can counter stuff!" Cool. Third turn, on the play, you can blow up their dual/island/whatever. That's usually how you will spend your third turn, blowing up their mana-fixing. Or, that's usually how I spend mine.
As for needing to dig for Liquimetal Coating, you can mull down to them. You don't need seven cards to drop a Liquimetal Coating and a Nature's Claim. Viridian Revel helps you draw into more removal, or another Coating.
You don't need to flicker your own permanents to play more removal.
But you are wondering, "Where does he come off making these wild assumptions about how this deck will play?!" Well, i'll sing it to you this way. Against Titan Ramp, mono-blue Proliferate, Big Red, RDW, U/W Control, and B/G Infect (All pre-sideboard), I have never lost after dropping a Liquimetal Coating second turn. I have about a 70% win rate if I don't drop it until third turn, and it spirals down from there.
Now, post-sideboard, I have a tough time with Titan Ramp. Mainly because they board in their own naturalizes and proceed to win. Everyone else has quit and not played with a sideboard against me, claiming that my deck is too cheap.
Though I have not played against her yet, I know for a fact that a deck running Indomitable Archangel will probably hose me unless I play straight land destruction.
The only deck I have had problems winning consistently against is U/R Pyromancer Ascension. :X
I have been brewing a deck together for a past few weeks, but I am at a loss at which direction it should take.
The deck wins through an early game ratchet bomb with jace and proliferate engine, or oxidda scrapmelter and manic vandal with liquid metal coating. Trinket mage is in there to search out relic to stop vengevine outbreaks, and lux cannon is a reusable vindicate with voltaic key.
The issue comes down to whether the deck should focus on proliferate with steady progress, and how to make room for lightning bolt and galvanic blast.
The question "Could this deck be viable?" also comes to mind. I feel it could be with more ideas from all of you.
Also, Relic is illegal. :X Well, as of right now it's legal.... As of the first time you'll get to use this in anywhere near competitive play, it will be illegal. I'm not sure if anyone pointed that out to you.
The list seems ok, but I hate the Revels in the main or sideboard. Honestly, the card seems like total situational trash to me, waiting 3-4 turns to 'maybe' draw a card off of an enchantment that does nothing else. I would cut them, perhaps for lightning bolt or pyroclasm to control weenies who get down ahead of your land desctruction.
I'm sure he meant to say the new black spellbomb over relic of p. Why tuktuk scrapper over oxidda scrapmelter? I think the 3/3 body is better than the occasional double artifact kill/couple of damage. I am not opposed to going red green either, but I would still run splinter twin.
Edit: What's with all the 3's in creature count. I would much rather run 4 manic vandals and 2 dragons or 2 tutktuk scrapper(should be oxidda scrapmelter). Unlike the above post, I do like revels main because in order to win, you are going to have to be killing artifacts at a pretty regular interval. I would however cut shatter and/or slice in twain for some lightning bolts.
Edit 2: post sideboard is exactly why I would run blue by the way. Game one you should catch most people off guard, and game 2 you can just stop their sideboarded goodies with counters. Also, countering the Indomitable archangel might be our only hope!
Edit 3: Wow really, you have trouble with pyromancer's ascension. I hope that was just sarcasm(I'm not sure what :X means) because I'm seeing 17 ways to deal with the enchantment main deck without liquimetal out, and the pyro decks loose their main win con in timewarp.
Oh, and I forgot to mention that I think the countermagic issue is probably bigger off than you make it out to be dude. What if someone is smart games 2 and 3 and counters your coatings? That's what's seems a good player would probably do, at least. What do you do instances when that happens? Cuz with R/G i almost guarantee it will happen.
What about other forms of artifact distruction targeting the liquidmetal coating, though? With SoM somethings bound to pop out that runs some sort of maindeck artifact distruction. In that case reverberate or ricochet traps don't work for you.
I'm just playing devils advocate, lol. I honestly wanna hear what your thoughts are on this.
Actually I have not. I do, however, have plans to try it out. I'll playtest it a bit tonight on MWS and let you guys know how it works.
Also, Relic is illegal. :X Well, as of right now it's legal.... As of the first time you'll get to use this in anywhere near competitive play, it will be illegal. I'm not sure if anyone pointed that out to you.
Thanks, I'll update that. For some reason I thought it was a Zendikar card. The only other searchable requires black to activate (spellbomb I think).
@ alrightgame: Nihil Spellbomb doesn't require black, just tap. You don't get to draw a card, but I still feel like it is a good sideboard option.
@ priest: I agree with you that blue is the way to go in this deck, I was just giving you the anti-counter tactics that would work for r/g. They also both happen to be red only, so they will work in r/u if needed. I don't think I would run reverberate in r/u but the trap is a possible sideboard card depending on what blue lists come out of standard with SoM.
Has anyone suggested prototype portal to reuse Ratchet Bomb or Mimic Vat to reuse the Srapmelters and Vandals? Could help in a war of attrition versus other decks.
I was also thinking that perhaps red is not the right colors for this deck. Blue/green seems to be a lot more comboy with more abilities to find the combo. It allows for instant speed removal as well, which use your resources to a better affect. I also added a full sideboard tech for trinket mage, and whiplash trap for boros.
Reminds me of my UG LD deck. Think that Acidic Slime needs a home here, though. Aside from that I'm not too sure what to suggest in the build. Might playtest this and see how it works out.
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I was also thinking that perhaps red is not the right colors for this deck. Blue/green seems to be a lot more comboy with more abilities to find the combo. It allows for instant speed removal as well, which use your resources to a better affect. I also added a full sideboard tech for trinket mage, and whiplash trap for boros.
How about spreading sea goodness? Screwing the colour is part of screwing the land base too
Anyone else think that these Infect decks will be incredibly susceptible to Planeswalkers?
I will relish the first few weeks when my opponent swings this or the other Infect baddies into my Jace 2.0 and I say "ok no blocks" and they look at me dumbfounded as I lose no loyalty and gain no poison counters.
I'm sure noobs will catch on quickly but I know the above situation will happen.
The reason people start with the red base is because the artifact destruction is attached to a beatstick - red's arti destruction is slower, but is a 2 for 1. Compare to Naturalize or Nature's Claim, where you're trading a card and 1 or 2 mana for their land drop.
I do like the idea of Ancient Stirrings though, as having the Coating to play on turn 2 seems pretty critical. I was leaning towards blue because of Preordain, but completely forgot about Stirrings.
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4 liquimetal coating
4 contagion clasp
2 lux cannon
2 everflowing chalice
2 voltaic key
1 Nihil Spellbomb
4 jace, the mind sculptor
4 mana leak
3 manic vandal
3 trinket mage
4 halimar depths
4 scalding tarn
3 tectonic edge
5 island
8 mountain
4 tunnel ignus
4 pyroclasm
3 frost titan
2 chandra nalaar
2 negate
Here's my take on a liquimetal control deck
4 splinter twin
4 turn aside
4 preordain
3 mana leak
4 oxidda scrapmelter
1 hoard-smelter dragon
2 iron myr
2 silver myr
4 myr galvanizer
3 halimar depths
1 evolving wilds
10 mountains mountains
6 islands
Gives you back good old stone rain in standard if you go turn 2 liquimetal, turn 3 manic vandal. Also adding the splinter twin gives us useful recursion of our tricks, and an all out win con with the myr galvanizer and either mana myr
If myr aren't your thing(i gotta admit I love these because I was a huge kiki-jiki+pestermite dork) these spots could be 4 sea gate oracles and lightning bolts.
Edit: If you have Jace 2.0 he should probably be a 3 of in the spots of galvanizer. I would also then run 2 foresee and 3 sea gate oracle instead of the rest of the myr(-2 mountains, +1 island, +1 evolving wild). You really want/need the dig in order to find the liquimetal coatings. Jace bouncing your own dudes to replay and nuke is pure awesome.
4x Manic Vandal
4x Oxida Scrapmelter
3x Tuktuk Scrapper
4x Sea Gate Oracle
1x Wurmcoil Engine
4x Liquimetal Coating
4x Preordain
3x Lightning Bolt
4x Mana Leak
2x Turn Aside
3x Jace, the Mind Sculpter
Land:
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Halimar Depths
2x Terramorphic Expanse
2x Evolving Wilds
6x Island
8x Mountain
Anyways, my take:
Lands:
Creatures:
Spells:
Sideboard:
So far it worked really good, haven't lost a game yet.
2 Rootbound Crag
13 Forest
10 Mountain
Creatures : 21
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Goblin Ruinblaster
4 Manic Vandal
4 Acidic Slime
2 Steel Hellkite
4 Rampant Growth
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Liquidmetal Coating
3 Demolish
4 Roiling Terrain
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burst Lightning
2 Chain Reaction
2 Summoning Trap
3 Mold Shambler
It's been pretty effective so far at keeping lands down to a minimum. Plus I think heavy artifact control is necessary in this new meta, so a lot of these guys double as arty removal. SB could use some tweaking, and my lands are in need of 2 more Rootbound Crags.
Complainers that are complaining about the art and complainers complaining about the complainers that are complaining about the art. Complainception.
Anyway, if the art's intended for another audience, I can deal with that. They can stick with what they like, and I'll stick with what I like.
-1 Liquidmetal Coating
+1 Demolish or +1 Land
SB
-4 Lightning Bolt
+4 Smash
Something on those lines?
I don't want to have to much artifact removal only spells since it'll be a dead draw without Liquidmetal Coating on the field.
***edit***
And Acidic Slime, Demolish hit artifacts as well so it would really be 11 cards that synergize with the Coating. Can be used for PW cleanup and creature control.
Complainers that are complaining about the art and complainers complaining about the complainers that are complaining about the art. Complainception.
Anyway, if the art's intended for another audience, I can deal with that. They can stick with what they like, and I'll stick with what I like.
This is why I went with a R/U build instead of a R/G build. U gives us access to draw spells like preordain and Sea Gate Oracle (and Jace 2.0 if you can afford it) and counter control cards like Mana Leak, Dispel, Spell Pierce and Turn Aside, providing the ability to stall and draw the cards you need in order to make your deck more synergistic.
You don't need blue. I promise this to you.
4 Liquimetal Coating
4 Shatter
4 Naturalize
4 Nature's Claim
3 Slice in Twain
3 Viridian Revel
Creatures
3 Manic Vandal
3 Sylvok Replica
3 Acidic Slime
3 Hoard-Smelter Dragon
3 Tuktuk Scrapper
9 Mountain
10 Forest
4 Rootbound Crag
1 Manic Vandal
1 Sylvok Replica
1 Acidic Slime
1 Tutk Scrapper
1 Slice in Twain
1 Viridian Revel
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Chain Reaction
4 Lightning Bolt
No blue. "But, they can counter stuff!" Cool. Third turn, on the play, you can blow up their dual/island/whatever. That's usually how you will spend your third turn, blowing up their mana-fixing. Or, that's usually how I spend mine.
As for needing to dig for Liquimetal Coating, you can mull down to them. You don't need seven cards to drop a Liquimetal Coating and a Nature's Claim. Viridian Revel helps you draw into more removal, or another Coating.
You don't need to flicker your own permanents to play more removal.
But you are wondering, "Where does he come off making these wild assumptions about how this deck will play?!" Well, i'll sing it to you this way. Against Titan Ramp, mono-blue Proliferate, Big Red, RDW, U/W Control, and B/G Infect (All pre-sideboard), I have never lost after dropping a Liquimetal Coating second turn. I have about a 70% win rate if I don't drop it until third turn, and it spirals down from there.
Now, post-sideboard, I have a tough time with Titan Ramp. Mainly because they board in their own naturalizes and proceed to win. Everyone else has quit and not played with a sideboard against me, claiming that my deck is too cheap.
Though I have not played against her yet, I know for a fact that a deck running Indomitable Archangel will probably hose me unless I play straight land destruction.
The only deck I have had problems winning consistently against is U/R Pyromancer Ascension. :X
Now let the hate and "THIS WILL NEVER WORK!" fly.
Man, this is out of date. I'll fix it up later
HATE HATE HATE HATE WONT WORK WONT WORK WONT WORK!!!!!
But seriously, I just have a question, lol. For the most part I like the build you have.
Have you tried out voltaic key at all?
Actually I have not. I do, however, have plans to try it out. I'll playtest it a bit tonight on MWS and let you guys know how it works.
Also, Relic is illegal. :X Well, as of right now it's legal.... As of the first time you'll get to use this in anywhere near competitive play, it will be illegal. I'm not sure if anyone pointed that out to you.
Man, this is out of date. I'll fix it up later
The list seems ok, but I hate the Revels in the main or sideboard. Honestly, the card seems like total situational trash to me, waiting 3-4 turns to 'maybe' draw a card off of an enchantment that does nothing else. I would cut them, perhaps for lightning bolt or pyroclasm to control weenies who get down ahead of your land desctruction.
Edit: What's with all the 3's in creature count. I would much rather run 4 manic vandals and 2 dragons or 2 tutktuk scrapper(should be oxidda scrapmelter). Unlike the above post, I do like revels main because in order to win, you are going to have to be killing artifacts at a pretty regular interval. I would however cut shatter and/or slice in twain for some lightning bolts.
Edit 2: post sideboard is exactly why I would run blue by the way. Game one you should catch most people off guard, and game 2 you can just stop their sideboarded goodies with counters. Also, countering the Indomitable archangel might be our only hope!
Edit 3: Wow really, you have trouble with pyromancer's ascension. I hope that was just sarcasm(I'm not sure what :X means) because I'm seeing 17 ways to deal with the enchantment main deck without liquimetal out, and the pyro decks loose their main win con in timewarp.
Edit: Maybe Nature's Spiral?
What about other forms of artifact distruction targeting the liquidmetal coating, though? With SoM somethings bound to pop out that runs some sort of maindeck artifact distruction. In that case reverberate or ricochet traps don't work for you.
I'm just playing devils advocate, lol. I honestly wanna hear what your thoughts are on this.
Thanks, I'll update that. For some reason I thought it was a Zendikar card. The only other searchable requires black to activate (spellbomb I think).
Why no ancient stirrings in that deck?
@ priest: I agree with you that blue is the way to go in this deck, I was just giving you the anti-counter tactics that would work for r/g. They also both happen to be red only, so they will work in r/u if needed. I don't think I would run reverberate in r/u but the trap is a possible sideboard card depending on what blue lists come out of standard with SoM.
Standard:
:symr:/:symg: Valakut 2.0 (Wolf Run Green)
Legacy:
:symr:/:symb: Vial Goblins
:symr:/:symg:/:symw: Zoo
:symg:/:symw:/:symr: Maverick
Commander:
:symg:/:symb:/:symw: Karador, Ghost Chieftain
4 ancient stirring
4 liquimetal coating
2 nature's spiral
4 naturalize
4 nature's claim
3 slice in twain
4 jace the mind sculptor
4 mana leak
24
4 tectonic edge
4 misty rainforest
4 halamir depths
6 forest
6 island
1 nature's spiral
4 trinket mage
1 voltaic key
1 chimeric mass
1 everflowing chalice
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Infiltration Lens
2 ratchet bomb
3 whiplash trap
I was also thinking that perhaps red is not the right colors for this deck. Blue/green seems to be a lot more comboy with more abilities to find the combo. It allows for instant speed removal as well, which use your resources to a better affect. I also added a full sideboard tech for trinket mage, and whiplash trap for boros.
Reminds me of my UG LD deck. Think that Acidic Slime needs a home here, though. Aside from that I'm not too sure what to suggest in the build. Might playtest this and see how it works out.
We confide - so we're deceived. We trust - so we're betrayed
-------------------------------
Week 225 SOTW Champion
Week 227 Banner Champion
Week 231 SOTW Champion
How about spreading sea goodness? Screwing the colour is part of screwing the land base too
Reading the Rules FTW
Isuckatmagic on MTGO
I do like the idea of Ancient Stirrings though, as having the Coating to play on turn 2 seems pretty critical. I was leaning towards blue because of Preordain, but completely forgot about Stirrings.