I usually have problem when I play, all the time I have mana screw, I tried to shuflle my decks in very different ways, but alway I have the same problem: not land in my first hand, or a lot of them.
So, what is the best way to shuffle my deck?, what is the secret for a good initial hand?
Saludos.
This is now the Official Shuffling Thread. Any and all discussion about what's the best way to shuffle, etc. now belongs here.
well, first of all, get some sleeves so that you can split the deck in half then just shove them together, and that should intermingle them. I must say, this is a wierd thread!!!
Check your mana base and such. That's usually the biggest problem.
But here's my routine that I've been using for about 7 years, I get massive amounts of mixing.
Six Card Pile Shuffle
Modified Overhand Shuffle**
Riffle Shuffle
Repeat Modified Overhand Shuffle/Riffle Shuffle combo 11 more times. Then cut a few times and present. Takes me about 2 minutes to do it all.
**Basic overhand shuffle involves taking the deck in your right hand, then "throwing" cards from your right to your left, creating another stack in your left hand. The cards go on top and then you repeat it. My modified overhand alternates the cards being thrown from the top and bottom during the overhand process. I've never seen anyone else do it, but it's helped me.
The reason I mix three different styles of shuffling is because if you look at a deck, then riffle shuffle over and over and over, basically the deck is in almost the same composition. The cards that were at the top are still near the bottom, and the cards that were at the bottom are still near the bottom. By mixing the cards between riffles, you end up with a more randomized deck.
Besides the fact that you can go days and days of constant mana screwing and flooding, the best thing I have found is to reset you deck.
Seperate out all the lands from the other cards and Mix it up good(I to ten riffle shuffles). after each game I shuffle about 8 times.
I do this about every ten times I use a deck, and I think it helps out.
also I've taken to mixing the lands inplay with the graveyard before I add it to the rest of the cards, but that might not be as helpful. (unless you got alot of lands out)
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Avvy from Le Gambit Extendo-Sliver Master of Death and Taxes
You really can't get away.
I've tried.
Besides the fact that you can go days and days of constant mana screwing and flooding, the best thing I have found is to reset you deck.
Seperate out all the lands from the other cards and Mix it up good(I to ten riffle shuffles). after each game I shuffle about 8 times.
I do this about every ten times I use a deck, and I think it helps out. also I've taken to mixing the lands inplay with the graveyard before I add it to the rest of the cards, but that might not be as helpful. (unless you got alot of lands out)
I wouldn't recommend that, because I used to do it, until I realized I just wasn't shuffling enough.
The thing, that I wanted to refer to is, that a lots of beginners just play 12 Island and 12 Swamps, although they're just playing 2 or 3 black cards... and then they wonder why they always draw swamps and blue cards. They're colorscrewed...
Exactly.
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Sort of. The tag I think you need is [simg]xxx[*/simg] without the * for signatures. I was reading people who couldn't get [img] working, so they always were told to use [simg].
i always shuffle the same way; put the 2 piles together then let them fall through each iother.
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Personally, I use a 6 pile shuffle, rifle shuffle 5 times, examine my deck and sepperate land clumps (which is allowed as long as you shuffle afterwards, and really seems to help any mana flood/screw problems I have. I also sepperate dupplicates that appear), then riffle shuffle 5 more times and end with an overhand shuffle.
6 pile shuffle, then riffle shuffle 7 times with a couple of overhands in between..
If I'm pressed for time, I just do 12 riffle shuffles with a couple of overhands in between.
If I'm shuffling because I did a search midgame, I'd do 3 riffle shuffles+1 overhand in between.
If I'm not satisfied with the way my opponent is shuffling, I'd shuffle his deck the way I'd shufle mine.
There were several articles in brainburst last year (can't find them now, but if anyone can find them, it would be great) regarding shuffling, and here's a very important quote:
If you're constantly not being mana screwed, you're cheating.
Essentially, part of the proper randomness that is supposed to be generated by good shuffling is being mana screwed occasionally.
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Personally, I use a 6 pile shuffle, rifle shuffle 5 times, examine my deck and sepperate land clumps (which is allowed as long as you shuffle afterwards, and really seems to help any mana flood/screw problems I have. I also sepperate dupplicates that appear), then riffle shuffle 5 more times and end with an overhand shuffle.
Sounds almost exactly like how I shuffle. Except that the people I play with usually take a long time to shuffle, so I just riffle for like 3 minutes, while I wait for them. But I do pile shuffle once or twice and a bunch of riffling normally.
I used to seperate out the land clumps from my deck and do the 2-to-1 thing, but I grew too lazy, so I just riffle alot... And I get mana screwed less now o_O
I always heard that doing a pile shuffle that didn't divide evenly was the way to go. I don't remember why, but I still do that.
Here's mine for a 60 card deck.
Step1: Pile shuffle into 8 piles.
Step2: overhand shuffle 10 or so times
Step3: Pile shuffle again into 8 piles
Step4: overhand shuffle another 10 or so times
Step5: cut my deck to an arbitrary place
This has worked for me, and I feel my deck is sufficiently randomized.
I don't riffle shuffle because honestly I suck at it.
I always heard that doing a pile shuffle that didn't divide evenly was the way to go. I don't remember why, but I still do that.
Here's mine for a 60 card deck.
Step1: Pile shuffle into 8 piles.
Step2: overhand shuffle 10 or so times
Step3: Pile shuffle again into 8 piles
Step4: overhand shuffle another 10 or so times
Step5: cut my deck to an arbitrary place
This has worked for me, and I feel my deck is sufficiently randomized.
I don't riffle shuffle because honestly I suck at it.
You gotta be careful when doing too many pile shuffles (you're not, it's just I needed something to quote :p). If you start with a 40 card deck (I can do the math for a 60 card if people really want to hear it) and write down the contents card for card, then 4 pile shuffle 7 times ALWAYS going from left to right and stacking the piles the same way, you'll end up with the exact same composition. So if you see someone pile shuffling a lot, call a judge to look at his deck.
Another way to avoid being cheated is the 3 Riffle Cheat. When you see someone going through their deck and putting a bunch of cards towards the bottom, then 4 card pile shuffle, then riffle only three times before presenting, either a.) Shuffle the **** out of their deck, or b.) call a judge. The reason is, if you do that (this works surprisingly well), you'll see an almost perfect representation of the "spell spell land" mix notorious for deck stacking. Try that out, it's creepy how easy it is. The cards they put towards the bottom are all their lands btw.
You gotta be careful when doing too many pile shuffles (you're not, it's just I needed something to quote :p). If you start with a 40 card deck (I can do the math for a 60 card if people really want to hear it) and write down the contents card for card, then 4 pile shuffle 7 times ALWAYS going from left to right and stacking the piles the same way, you'll end up with the exact same composition. So if you see someone pile shuffling a lot, call a judge to look at his deck.
Another way to avoid being cheated is the 3 Riffle Cheat. When you see someone going through their deck and putting a bunch of cards towards the bottom, then 4 card pile shuffle, then riffle only three times before presenting, either a.) Shuffle the **** out of their deck, or b.) call a judge. The reason is, if you do that (this works surprisingly well), you'll see an almost perfect representation of the "spell spell land" mix notorious for deck stacking. Try that out, it's creepy how easy it is. The cards they put towards the bottom are all their lands btw.
[/rant of a former cheater]
I've seen explanations of the first one, but the second one is new to me. Anytime that I've seen somebody doing something similar though I always shuffle their deck like crazy. When I first started playing I was sorrounded by cheaters so I had to learn to be cautious.
it's ok if people want to shuffle my deck but i don't allow them to bridge shuffle it cause my cards get bent. i usually shuffle the pile method or grab part of the deck and and shuffle it in into the other pile method.
I'd seperate the lands from the "others", then alternate 1 land with 2 "others"
That works out pretty well for me
Only problem with this is you have to shuffle after or its consider 'stacking'.
I normally do 3 pile shuffle 3 times. Then I do a few over hand shuffle/riffle effects. Then I cut my deck a few times and over hand shuffle/riffle a few more. Only takes about 2 mins and usually works everytime on getting good hands.
However, like it was said earlier I would check your mana base first. You could have to few lands or not enough.
I always do eight card piles and then do hand over hand for a good while. I never riffle shuffle mainly because your sleeves last longer if you don't do this.
i use a 4 pile shuffle, then several rifles, then a 5 pile shuffle, then a bunch more rifles. works for me. dont ever bother seperating your lands and non lands, basicly its a waste of time because if you dont randomize it enough, its cheating, and if you do randomize it enough, you could have just randomized before the sorting.
lay the cards out as follows:
1,2,3,4,5,2,5,4,3,1 and repeat
stack the piles on top of each other in the following order
3 on top of 4
2 on top of 3 on top of 4
5 on top of 2 on top of 3 on top of 4
1 on top of 5 on top of 2 on top of 3 on top of 4
then several riffle shuffles and a couple of overhands
1. First Pile Shuffle
I do a pile shuffle into either five or seven piles. Sometimes I place cards into piles in order 1..n and loop. Other times I place cards into piles in order 1..n then n..1 and loop. I then stack the piles in whatever order I feel like. This gives me four different types of pile shuffles, and either 5040 (for seven piles) or 120 (for five piles) different pile stack orders. I never use the same configuration twice during a match. I chose 5 and 7 because they are both prime numbers and would need to be repeated in the longest sequence before returning the deck to the starting ordering.
2. First Riffle Shuffle
After the pile shuffle and stacking I riffle shuffle my deck five or seven times. Nothing special here.
3. Second Pile Shuffle
Then I repeat the pile shuffle as above.
4. Second Riffle Shuffle
Then I repeat the riffle shuffle.
5. The Cut and Oppenent's Deck Shuffle
I present my deck to be shuffled or cut. Meanwhile I give my opponent's deck the same treatment as steps 1-4 above.
6. The Cut
If my opponent shuffled my deck, I cut it.
Steps 1-4 take about two minutes. Step 5 takes about the same amount of time, but sometimes I do fewer piles and less riffles on his or her deck.
I do 6 pile shuffle, take one of the piles and deal it onto the other five, take one and deal it onto the other four, and so forth till I just have two piles then I do riffle or something.
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:symwb:Member of Orzhov Syndicate:symwb:
--Esillisar
i lay out the whole deckon the table befor a touny and just shove them allinto a huge pile and do it before each round or a manaweave its not cheating but its sorta is oh well
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I usually have problem when I play, all the time I have mana screw, I tried to shuflle my decks in very different ways, but alway I have the same problem: not land in my first hand, or a lot of them.
So, what is the best way to shuffle my deck?, what is the secret for a good initial hand?
Saludos.
This is now the Official Shuffling Thread. Any and all discussion about what's the best way to shuffle, etc. now belongs here.
[Left Play Designs][Coffeehouse][DeviantArt]
Winner MTGS Weekly Sig/Banner Contest
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But here's my routine that I've been using for about 7 years, I get massive amounts of mixing.
Six Card Pile Shuffle
Modified Overhand Shuffle**
Riffle Shuffle
Repeat Modified Overhand Shuffle/Riffle Shuffle combo 11 more times. Then cut a few times and present. Takes me about 2 minutes to do it all.
**Basic overhand shuffle involves taking the deck in your right hand, then "throwing" cards from your right to your left, creating another stack in your left hand. The cards go on top and then you repeat it. My modified overhand alternates the cards being thrown from the top and bottom during the overhand process. I've never seen anyone else do it, but it's helped me.
The reason I mix three different styles of shuffling is because if you look at a deck, then riffle shuffle over and over and over, basically the deck is in almost the same composition. The cards that were at the top are still near the bottom, and the cards that were at the bottom are still near the bottom. By mixing the cards between riffles, you end up with a more randomized deck.
[/rant]
Thanks to Le_Gambit for this awesome sig!
Seperate out all the lands from the other cards and Mix it up good(I to ten riffle shuffles). after each game I shuffle about 8 times.
I do this about every ten times I use a deck, and I think it helps out.
also I've taken to mixing the lands inplay with the graveyard before I add it to the rest of the cards, but that might not be as helpful. (unless you got alot of lands out)
Avvy from Le Gambit
Extendo-Sliver
Master of Death and Taxes
You really can't get away.
I've tried.
I wouldn't recommend that, because I used to do it, until I realized I just wasn't shuffling enough.
Thanks to Le_Gambit for this awesome sig!
That works out pretty well for me
Could someone please tell me how to put pictures on my signature?
Exactly.
Sort of. The tag I think you need is [simg]xxx[*/simg] without the * for signatures. I was reading people who couldn't get [img] working, so they always were told to use [simg].
Thanks to Le_Gambit for this awesome sig!
Spread the word.
If I'm pressed for time, I just do 12 riffle shuffles with a couple of overhands in between.
If I'm shuffling because I did a search midgame, I'd do 3 riffle shuffles+1 overhand in between.
If I'm not satisfied with the way my opponent is shuffling, I'd shuffle his deck the way I'd shufle mine.
There were several articles in brainburst last year (can't find them now, but if anyone can find them, it would be great) regarding shuffling, and here's a very important quote:
If you're constantly not being mana screwed, you're cheating.
Essentially, part of the proper randomness that is supposed to be generated by good shuffling is being mana screwed occasionally.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Sounds almost exactly like how I shuffle. Except that the people I play with usually take a long time to shuffle, so I just riffle for like 3 minutes, while I wait for them. But I do pile shuffle once or twice and a bunch of riffling normally.
I used to seperate out the land clumps from my deck and do the 2-to-1 thing, but I grew too lazy, so I just riffle alot... And I get mana screwed less now o_O
Extendo
Here's mine for a 60 card deck.
Step1: Pile shuffle into 8 piles.
Step2: overhand shuffle 10 or so times
Step3: Pile shuffle again into 8 piles
Step4: overhand shuffle another 10 or so times
Step5: cut my deck to an arbitrary place
This has worked for me, and I feel my deck is sufficiently randomized.
I don't riffle shuffle because honestly I suck at it.
You gotta be careful when doing too many pile shuffles (you're not, it's just I needed something to quote :p). If you start with a 40 card deck (I can do the math for a 60 card if people really want to hear it) and write down the contents card for card, then 4 pile shuffle 7 times ALWAYS going from left to right and stacking the piles the same way, you'll end up with the exact same composition. So if you see someone pile shuffling a lot, call a judge to look at his deck.
Another way to avoid being cheated is the 3 Riffle Cheat. When you see someone going through their deck and putting a bunch of cards towards the bottom, then 4 card pile shuffle, then riffle only three times before presenting, either a.) Shuffle the **** out of their deck, or b.) call a judge. The reason is, if you do that (this works surprisingly well), you'll see an almost perfect representation of the "spell spell land" mix notorious for deck stacking. Try that out, it's creepy how easy it is. The cards they put towards the bottom are all their lands btw.
[/rant of a former cheater]
Thanks to Le_Gambit for this awesome sig!
I've seen explanations of the first one, but the second one is new to me. Anytime that I've seen somebody doing something similar though I always shuffle their deck like crazy. When I first started playing I was sorrounded by cheaters so I had to learn to be cautious.
This is cheating unless you properly randomize afterwards.
I normally do 3 pile shuffle 3 times. Then I do a few over hand shuffle/riffle effects. Then I cut my deck a few times and over hand shuffle/riffle a few more. Only takes about 2 mins and usually works everytime on getting good hands.
However, like it was said earlier I would check your mana base first. You could have to few lands or not enough.
|[Æther]|The Birth of Mr. Mxyzptlk|
1 2 3
5 4
those are the pile #s
lay the cards out as follows:
1,2,3,4,5,2,5,4,3,1 and repeat
stack the piles on top of each other in the following order
3 on top of 4
2 on top of 3 on top of 4
5 on top of 2 on top of 3 on top of 4
1 on top of 5 on top of 2 on top of 3 on top of 4
then several riffle shuffles and a couple of overhands
(takes less time than it sounds)
I do a pile shuffle into either five or seven piles. Sometimes I place cards into piles in order 1..n and loop. Other times I place cards into piles in order 1..n then n..1 and loop. I then stack the piles in whatever order I feel like. This gives me four different types of pile shuffles, and either 5040 (for seven piles) or 120 (for five piles) different pile stack orders. I never use the same configuration twice during a match. I chose 5 and 7 because they are both prime numbers and would need to be repeated in the longest sequence before returning the deck to the starting ordering.
2. First Riffle Shuffle
After the pile shuffle and stacking I riffle shuffle my deck five or seven times. Nothing special here.
3. Second Pile Shuffle
Then I repeat the pile shuffle as above.
4. Second Riffle Shuffle
Then I repeat the riffle shuffle.
5. The Cut and Oppenent's Deck Shuffle
I present my deck to be shuffled or cut. Meanwhile I give my opponent's deck the same treatment as steps 1-4 above.
6. The Cut
If my opponent shuffled my deck, I cut it.
Steps 1-4 take about two minutes. Step 5 takes about the same amount of time, but sometimes I do fewer piles and less riffles on his or her deck.
:symwb:Member of Orzhov Syndicate:symwb:
--Esillisar