My 1st General ever: Nothing like turn 2 GAAIV off of a Sol Ring.
A lot has changed in this deck, since I started it in Sept. 2010. And I like to think, it has improved considerably.
However, there's always room for more, especially with decks that receive a lot of heat, due to their (General's) nature alone.
You're usually public enemy number one, so you need to be able to fend off a whole table.
I'd appreciate suggestions on how to make the deck more resilient and ... simply better.
I've come a long way to reach this list below:
The numbers in the decklist denote the converted mana cost of the spell.
The main focus of the deck is on interrupting the opponents and bouncing/blinking of creatures with ETB abilities.
There's a quite a number of synergies here and Dovescape + Guile can create an arbitrarily large amount of birds.
However, I sometimes have a hard time finishing my opponents after establishing control - well except for gruesomely slow beats.
Notable Combos & Synergies: Guile + Dovescape + any noncreature Spell = Infinite Birds. Archaeomancer + Evacuation = bounce all the creatures every (other) turn. Venser the Sojourner + Archaeomancer + Mass Removal = clear the table each turn and reach Venser's Ultimate 90% of the time. Deadeye Navigator + any ETB-creature = all sorts of ridiculus. ;-)
Removed: 1 Idyllic Tutor (10-21-2010 : not enough targets) 1 Force of Will (10-30-2010 : needed this for Legacy) 1 Body Double (10-30-2010 : no search for the combo / combo removed) 1 Mirror Entity (10-30-2010 : not that good on its own, no search for the combo) 1 Island (12-06-2010) 1 Plains (12-06-2010) 1 Mind's Eye (04-01-2011 : added Consecrated Sphinx instead) 1 Voidstone Gargoyle (04-01-2011 : nice to have, but not that good)
Changes 2014: Removed 1 Sower of Temptation (proved to be rather weak without enough Sac Outlets or stuff like Venser) 1 Rite of Replication (nice but soooo expensive)
To comment on some of the cards you are considering, I don't really use the Shackles, but I don't have high Island counts in either of my EDH's (Zur and Sen Triplets), but with your Island count I could see it being effective.
To answer your question on Future Sight, Yes, It is just that good, so good that I would play the Magus of the future as well (future sight on a dude) Blue honden is only good if you play the other hondens with it, to get more advantage off of it. So I would drop the Blue Honden for Future Sight and I would drop Sphinx of Magosi for Magus of the Future.
Tucking is super tricky, I will give you that, so if you look to try and nab someone with it, play them, other than that no. For the Hinder cut Absorb, for the Condemn I don't know what to cut.
Other Cards you may want to consider Elixir of Immortality Getting back your yard is good when you aren't doing recursion stuff. Tutorable getting back your yard is better. and gaining 5 life is just a little Icing on the already awesome sauce cake. Akroma's Vengeance - Seems that you don't have a lot of enchantment hate (unless I am blind) and global enchantment hate plus wrath seems pretty good. Plus it is never a dead card because of cycling. Wrath of God - You have Day of Judgment, this is strictly better. Seems like a winner in my book. Rout - Instant speed Wrath for 7 seems really good, Blowing up boards on not your turn with the option of counter mana instead is really powerful. Luminarch Ascension - Puts a Big bullseye on your head, but gives you a way to win quick at multiplayer tables, turns on turn 3, and is a complete house. I suggest if played, played when you have control of the game already.
That is all I can think of right now, but this deck seems pretty stout. Good luck bashing in brains with the arbiter (he seems pretty good)
You may want to reconsider your general if you're playing in a casual group as he is a "griefer", and locking out your opponents is anything but casual. If you want to stay in these colors and play a control strategy, why not try out Isperia or Ith?
Thanks for the input, calenderkid7! I guess I'll just have to get a hold of the Shackles and try them. Emeria has the same "problem" only with plains and I seldom have the opportunity to use it. However, with Emeria, it doesn't really use a business slot, at worst, it's an ETB tapped Plains.
Seeing you so convinced of Future Sight, I'll definitely try it instead of the Honden. The Magus seems, well, fragile. But if the Enchantment works I'll give it a try also. The Sphinx is actually pretty good, as it's a solid beater in addition to the draw capability.
The Tucks go in the same direction as Meddling Mage or Voidstone Gargoyle, denying someone access to their General. The spells seem to be more permanent solutions than the creatures, however. *ponders*
I like your other suggestions. The Elixir seems nice, I hadn't though of it. Wrath is definitely better than DoJ, I guess I just had the DoJ lying around, so I put it in without thinking. Rout is a definite addition, thanks!
Also, I am light on enchantment hate, that is true. And more mass removal seems good. So I'll try the Akroma's Vengeance.
I like Luminarch Ascension as well, though it's usually a pretty dead card, if it doesn't drop early. I have a deck built around the Ascension with Energy Field and Wheel of Sun and Moon and it works really well there, with the back up, but most of the time Ascension makes you a very big target. Also, I don't know what to cut for it?
Thanks for the compliment. GAAIV is really cool to play with!
That said, Thanks for the comment BrownTownMcClown. Actually I do play in a casual setting, yes, but my group's quite cutthroat and we all love a challenge. ... even when we're not playing Legacy. Grand Arbiter is no worse than Rafiq or Sharuum (or Karrthus when someone else is playing Intet). The other U/W-Generals I find rather ... lacking.
The idea of the Gideon, Venser + Sunblast Angel combo is a nice one, Gaka. I'll have to get a hold of Gideon and try that. Gideon would also go well with repeatable Wraths through Mnemonic Wall, Venser + Wrath.
I'm not sure there are any more efficient (reusable) bounce effects. Any suggestions?
Ardeyn
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
- A single spark of passion can change a man forever. -
Updated the original post with my current list and a change log, as I play this deck quite frequently now.
I'm looking for some more reusable bounce/blink effects, as well as good ETB creatures - ideally ones that are recurrable either with Reveillark and/or Sun Titan. Also any ways to improve the deck and provide a quicker route to eliminating opponents would be nice.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
Ardeyn
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
- A single spark of passion can change a man forever. -
Gilded Drake - This guy is really fantastic, just steal a guy and bounce the Drake back to your hand. He can be abused with things like Equilibrium and Mistmeadow Witch to great effect.
Sakashima the Impostor - Clones are great in blink decks because you can swap what they are copying very easily. Sakashima is especially potent as she can copy your general for double taxing.
Body Double - Similar to how Clones are effective to blink Body Double can be swapped out for the best creature in any graveyard. Really great guy to Momentary Blink right before you declare blockers. He's also very abusive when copying Reveillark.
Karmic Guide - Another great card for Reveillark and just a good all around card.
Ghostway - This is one of my favorite enablers. Can save your guys from sweepers and lets you abuse all those 187 triggers again. It also an excellent shenanigan enabler when paired with Mnemonic Wall.
I've been running GA4 blink for a little while now (though not my primary deck), and it's hella fun. The decklist is in my sig, admittedly it still needs some more playtime/improving though.
Stuff I've had good luck with that isn't in your list:
A lot has changed in this deck, since I started it in Sept. 2010. And I like to think, it has improved considerably.
However, there's always room for more, especially with decks that receive a lot of heat, due to their (General's) nature alone.
You're usually public enemy number one, so you need to be able to fend off a whole table.
I'd appreciate suggestions on how to make the deck more resilient and ... simply better.
I've come a long way to reach this list below:
1 Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
Taxation (6)
3 Rhystic Study
3 Propaganda
3 Ghostly Prison
3 Aura of Silence
4 Windborn Muse
4 Invoke Prejudice
Bounce & Blink (9)
2 Mistmeadow Witch
2 Momentary Blink
3 Equilibrium
3 Crystal Shard
3 Capsize
4 Brago, King Eternal
5 Venser, the Sojourner
6 Deadeye Navigator
8 Tidespout Tyrant
"187"-Creatures (17)
2 Gilded Drake
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Court Hussar
3 Trinket Mage
3 Stonecloaker
4 Archaeomancer
4 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Solemn Simulakrum
4 Restoration Angel
4 Sakashima the Impostor
5 Mulldrifter
5 Reveillark
5 Karmic Guide
6 Sun Titan
6 Duplicant
7 Sphinx of Uthuun
7 Angel of Serenity
3 Absorb
3 Hinder
3 Spell Crumple
3 Render Silent
4 Cryptic Command
5 Desertion
6 Dovescape
Draw, Tutor & Library Manipulation (7)
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Muddle the Mixture
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Fact or Fiction
5 Future Sight
6 Recurring Insight
6 Consecrated Sphinx
Removal (8)
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
3 Act of Authority
4 Day of Judgement
4 Supreme Judgement
5 Evacuation
5 Rout
6 Austere Command
Good Stuff (3)
4 Leyline of Anticipation
5 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
6 Guile
Mana (6)
0 Everflowing Chalice
1 Sol Ring
1 Land Tax
2 Azorius Signet
2 Talisman of Progress
2 Mind Stone
0 Hallowed Fountain
0 Tundra
0 Flooded Strand
0 Adarkar Wastes
0 Glacial Fortress
0 Azorius Chancery
0 Celestial Colonnade
0 Boseiju Who Shelters All
0 Tolaria West
0 Prahv, Spires of Order
0 Riptide Laboratory
0 High Market
0 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
0 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
0 Ancient Tomb
0 Ancient Den
0 Seat of the Synod
9 Island
10 Plains
The numbers in the decklist denote the converted mana cost of the spell.
The main focus of the deck is on interrupting the opponents and bouncing/blinking of creatures with ETB abilities.
There's a quite a number of synergies here and Dovescape + Guile can create an arbitrarily large amount of birds.
However, I sometimes have a hard time finishing my opponents after establishing control - well except for gruesomely slow beats.
Notable Combos & Synergies:
Guile + Dovescape + any noncreature Spell = Infinite Birds.
Archaeomancer + Evacuation = bounce all the creatures every (other) turn.
Venser the Sojourner + Archaeomancer + Mass Removal = clear the table each turn and reach Venser's Ultimate 90% of the time.
Deadeye Navigator + any ETB-creature = all sorts of ridiculus. ;-)
Changelog:
1 Rout (10-21-2010)
1 Bribery (10-30-2010)
1 Hinder (10-30-2010)
1 Future Sight (10-30-2010)
1 Tundra (12-06-2010)
1 Flooded Strand (12-06-2010)
1 Consecrated Sphinx (04-01-2011)
1 Mimic Vat (04-01-2011)
Removed:
1 Idyllic Tutor (10-21-2010 : not enough targets)
1 Force of Will (10-30-2010 : needed this for Legacy)
1 Body Double (10-30-2010 : no search for the combo / combo removed)
1 Mirror Entity (10-30-2010 : not that good on its own, no search for the combo)
1 Island (12-06-2010)
1 Plains (12-06-2010)
1 Mind's Eye (04-01-2011 : added Consecrated Sphinx instead)
1 Voidstone Gargoyle (04-01-2011 : nice to have, but not that good)
Added during 2011/12
1 Spell Crumple (tucking is rather helpful)
1 Duplicant (more removal that can be blinked and recurred via Reveillark)
1 Karmic Guide (Blink-able Recursion!!!)
1 Riptide Laboratory (more bounce)
1 Snapcaster Mage (once more with feeling!)
1 Gilded Drake (taken blackjack's good advice and never looked back; awesome)
1 Muddle the Mixture (tutor and counter in a pinch)
1 Sphinx of Uthuun (Blink-able Fact or Fiction!)
1 Deadeye Navigator (Blink Engine)
1 Cloudstone Curio (Blink Engine)
1 Restoration Angel (Blink @ ETB)
1 Bribery (nice but unnecessary)
1 Mimic Vat (I never had this survive longer than one turn)
1 Luminarch Ascension (Makes you even more of an enemy)
1 Draining Whelk (Too expensive, I even doubt Desertion often enough)
1 Akroma's Vengeance (hurts myself more often than not)
1 World Queller (Not as good as I had hoped)
1 Keiga the Tidestar (more space for ETB-creatures)
1 Yosei the Morning Star (more space for ETB-creatures)
1 Kira, Great Glass Spinner (hurts some of the selfblink too much)
1 Sphinx of Magosi (removed for Sphinx of Uthuun)
1 Mindbreak Trap (removed for Spell Crumple)
Changes 2013:
Removed
1 Sunblast Angel (too conditional)
1 Cloustone Curio (only good when your board is good already)
1 Riftwing Cloudskate (too minimal effect)
1 Body Double (wanted Skashima instead to copy GAAIV)
1 Glen Elendra Archmage (this might come back; wanted to test Render Silent)
1 Time Warp (good, but getting stale and too similar to my Zegana deck)
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath (removed for more synergistic stuff)
1 Miren, the Moaning Well (High Market is just better)
1 Island (Ancient Tomb provides another option for turn 2 GAAIV)
Added
1 Invoke Prejudice (more taxing especially for G/B/R)
1 Sakashima the Impostor (GAAIV 2)
1 Angel of Serenity (ETB flexibility)
1 Render Silent (more counterspells!)
1 Supreme Judgement (mass removal playable through Dovescape)
1 Land Tax (mana smoothing)
1 Talisman of Progress (faster GAAIV)
1 High Market (just better than Miren)
1 Ancient Tomb (turn 2/3 GAAIV)
Removed
1 Sower of Temptation (proved to be rather weak without enough Sac Outlets or stuff like Venser)
1 Rite of Replication (nice but soooo expensive)
Added
1 Brago, King Eternal (another enabler)
1 Act of Authority (great removal that can be reused)
To be tested:
0 Mox Diamond
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Oath of Lieges
5 Desolation Tide
If you suggest cards to add, please also suggest which cards to remove for them.
Thanks!
Ardeyn
To answer your question on Future Sight, Yes, It is just that good, so good that I would play the Magus of the future as well (future sight on a dude) Blue honden is only good if you play the other hondens with it, to get more advantage off of it. So I would drop the Blue Honden for Future Sight and I would drop Sphinx of Magosi for Magus of the Future.
Tucking is super tricky, I will give you that, so if you look to try and nab someone with it, play them, other than that no. For the Hinder cut Absorb, for the Condemn I don't know what to cut.
Other Cards you may want to consider
Elixir of Immortality Getting back your yard is good when you aren't doing recursion stuff. Tutorable getting back your yard is better. and gaining 5 life is just a little Icing on the already awesome sauce cake.
Akroma's Vengeance - Seems that you don't have a lot of enchantment hate (unless I am blind) and global enchantment hate plus wrath seems pretty good. Plus it is never a dead card because of cycling.
Wrath of God - You have Day of Judgment, this is strictly better. Seems like a winner in my book.
Rout - Instant speed Wrath for 7 seems really good, Blowing up boards on not your turn with the option of counter mana instead is really powerful.
Luminarch Ascension - Puts a Big bullseye on your head, but gives you a way to win quick at multiplayer tables, turns on turn 3, and is a complete house. I suggest if played, played when you have control of the game already.
That is all I can think of right now, but this deck seems pretty stout. Good luck bashing in brains with the arbiter (he seems pretty good)
Gideon Jura seems to fit here.
Sleep is another fine choice.
Gideon/other reuseable mass-taps + Venser + Sunblast == infinite tapwraths. I've gotten it off in standard, and it's hillarious.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Seeing you so convinced of Future Sight, I'll definitely try it instead of the Honden. The Magus seems, well, fragile. But if the Enchantment works I'll give it a try also. The Sphinx is actually pretty good, as it's a solid beater in addition to the draw capability.
The Tucks go in the same direction as Meddling Mage or Voidstone Gargoyle, denying someone access to their General. The spells seem to be more permanent solutions than the creatures, however. *ponders*
I like your other suggestions. The Elixir seems nice, I hadn't though of it. Wrath is definitely better than DoJ, I guess I just had the DoJ lying around, so I put it in without thinking. Rout is a definite addition, thanks!
Also, I am light on enchantment hate, that is true. And more mass removal seems good. So I'll try the Akroma's Vengeance.
I like Luminarch Ascension as well, though it's usually a pretty dead card, if it doesn't drop early. I have a deck built around the Ascension with Energy Field and Wheel of Sun and Moon and it works really well there, with the back up, but most of the time Ascension makes you a very big target. Also, I don't know what to cut for it?
Thanks for the compliment. GAAIV is really cool to play with!
That said, Thanks for the comment BrownTownMcClown. Actually I do play in a casual setting, yes, but my group's quite cutthroat and we all love a challenge. ... even when we're not playing Legacy. Grand Arbiter is no worse than Rafiq or Sharuum (or Karrthus when someone else is playing Intet). The other U/W-Generals I find rather ... lacking.
The idea of the Gideon, Venser + Sunblast Angel combo is a nice one, Gaka. I'll have to get a hold of Gideon and try that. Gideon would also go well with repeatable Wraths through Mnemonic Wall, Venser + Wrath.
I'm not sure there are any more efficient (reusable) bounce effects. Any suggestions?
Ardeyn
I'm looking for some more reusable bounce/blink effects, as well as good ETB creatures - ideally ones that are recurrable either with Reveillark and/or Sun Titan. Also any ways to improve the deck and provide a quicker route to eliminating opponents would be nice.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
Ardeyn
Gilded Drake - This guy is really fantastic, just steal a guy and bounce the Drake back to your hand. He can be abused with things like Equilibrium and Mistmeadow Witch to great effect.
Sakashima the Impostor - Clones are great in blink decks because you can swap what they are copying very easily. Sakashima is especially potent as she can copy your general for double taxing.
Body Double - Similar to how Clones are effective to blink Body Double can be swapped out for the best creature in any graveyard. Really great guy to Momentary Blink right before you declare blockers. He's also very abusive when copying Reveillark.
Karmic Guide - Another great card for Reveillark and just a good all around card.
Ghostway - This is one of my favorite enablers. Can save your guys from sweepers and lets you abuse all those 187 triggers again. It also an excellent shenanigan enabler when paired with Mnemonic Wall.
My Current EDH Decks
WUBRG Lorwyn Block Horde of Notions WUBRG
UG Momir Vig Glimpse Combo UG
UW "Rasputin Dreamcrusher" Control UW
Stuff I've had good luck with that isn't in your list:
I would suggest replacing Ponder with something reuseable. Sea Gate Oracle or Wall of Omens at a minimum.
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning