[Primer] A guide to all things Sliver Overlord

[Gref]

haven't been here in forever. props to crux for keeping this alive. edh is basically dead in my playgroup, but i still champion this deck.

for my deck, less is more. having a sliver core of about 9~12 slivers and overlord has done wonders for my deck. it is a tutoring machine, and having all the slivers play off each other makes the complimentary cards work.

best regards guys, keep it up.

edit: i think in my last list sliver queen is missing. probably a mental misstep on my part. she lets you go infinite with colorless mana and slivers. use her.

[CruxMDQ]

Glad to see you back around the nest, Gref.

I've been talked into trying out a counter-sliver build; I found it not too hard to perform the conversion, but I'd like to hear out your thoughts on the matter.

[Gref]

i suppose it depends on what kind of decks you are playing and if you are playing one on one or multiplayer.

your counterspells lose a lot of worth outside of a duel. even more so if multiple decks have blue/counters.

I think i only use hinder and maybe one other spell i can't think of atm. any counter that buries a general is good. the rest of my spell suite is target removal like vindicate, putrefy, mortify, maelstrom pulse.

edit: voidslime was the card i was thinking of. with 5 colors, i tried to put in spells that could do multiple things. having the a full set of duals and fetches makes it viable to run a lot multi colored cards.

[phyrexia]

Just joined this site. ran across this discussion and wanted to post.

Training grounds, Urza's Incubator are great cards which i also run in my deck.

When I feel I am losing board control and I need to board wipe I will play Ghostway, then any wipe card to get it back under my control. Since Ghostway is a instant, any board wipe a player plays, i will tutor for that card if not in hand.

I also run cards Crawlspace and Karmic Justice.

[DanzBorin]

Finally time to post this

I've been lazy.

It still needs some tweaking, but this is the idea.

Sliver Overlord

General 1 Sliver Overlord Creature 1 Amoeboid Changeling 1 Basal Sliver 1 Clot Sliver 1 Crystalline Sliver 1 Dormant Sliver 1 Gemhide Sliver 1 Harmonic Sliver 1 Heart Sliver 1 Hibernation Sliver 1 Homing Sliver 1 Horned Sliver 1 Kozilek, Buther of Truth 1 Necrotic Sliver 1 Psionic Sliver 1 Pulmonice Sliver 1 Quick Sliver 1 Root Sliver 1 Sedge Sliver 1 Shifting Sliver 1 Sliver Legion 1 Sliver Queen 1 Spectral Sliver 1 Synapse Sliver 1 Winged Sliver Instant 1 Brainstorm 1 Cryptic Command 1 Enlightened Tutor 1 Mystical Tutor 1 Path to Exile 1 Swords to Plowshares 1 Vampiric Tutor Sorcery 1 Bribery 1 Day of Judgement 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Farseek 1 Maelstrom Pulse 1 Nature's Lore 1 Patriarch's Bidding 1 Regrowth 1 Shard Convergence 1 Skyshroud Claim 1 Tooth and Nail 1 Vindicate 1 Wargate Enchantment 1 Mana Echoes 1 Mirari's Wake 1 Pernicious Deed 1 Rhystic Study 1 Training Grounds

Artifacts 1 Aether Vial 1 Coalition Relic 1 Crucible of Worlds 1 Cryptic Gateway 1 Fellwar Stone 1 Gilded Lotus 1 Heartstone 1 Mana Vault 1 Mind's Eye 1 Mox Diamond 1 Ratchet Bomb 1 Scroll Rack 1 Sensei's Divining Top 1 Sol Ring Land 1 Arid Mesa 1 Badlands 1 Bayou 1 Blood Crypt 1 Breeding Pool 2 Forest 1 Godless Shrine 1 Hallowed Fountaing 2 Island 1 Marsh Flats 1 Misty Rainforest 1 Mountain 1 Murmuring Bosk 1 Mutavault 1 Overgrown Tomb 1 Plains 1 Plateau 1 Sacred Foundry 1 Savanah 1 Scalding Tarn 1 Scrubland 1 Steam Vents 1 Stomping Ground 1 Strip Mine 1 Swamp 1 Taiga 1 Temple Garden 1 Tropical Island 1 Tundra 1 Underground Sea 1 Verdant Catacombs 1 Volcanic Island 1 Watery Grave 1 Windswept Heath

[Gref]

Hey guys. It has been a while.

I wanted to discuss my new take on my deck, others decks, and slivers in general. Rambling, digression, and tangents ahead.

Thank you, to everyone that contributed to this thread. I think this has been the biggest discussion of any one sliver related EDH deck on this forum. My deck and how I play it are on another level thanks to all the contributions and ideas here.

The other day I realized how bad my deck was . I was trying to do way too many things at once and trying to cram in as many "good stuff" cards as I possibly could.

I think I had maybe 9-12 slivers in the deck. Most of the games I won, most of them were irrelevant to how I won. I would usually end up hitting a combo or finding a way to swing through with Sliver Overlord. The problem with that is, I either managed to pull that off game 1 or not at all. If I did get it on game 1, I would immediately be hated out the next game. If I didn't get off the ground on game 1, it never happened in another game.

I came to the conclusion that, even with five colors at my disposal, I can not do it all. I needed a more streamlined approach. I needed more resiliency. I needed more threat density. I needed less BS in my deck.

My deck has always been a work in progress. For a while though, I just became content and did not try to improve. Being able to blow out a 4-5 man game out of nowhere will do that to a person.

After taking some beatings in 1v1 where I'm always the focus, I knew my deck had fallen off. Things were not clicking. Things were not consistent enough.

In an attempt to get things to work, I broke it down.

What deck am I playing?

Spoiler:

I hope whoever reads this can really take something away from this 'segment'.

I realized that I was way to focused on my general rather than my deck. Granted that is a big part of EDH deck building, but with a tool-box type general, it is easy to get caught up and lost in the deck.

For players looking to invest in slivers, think about who you want to command your army.

Sliver Queen is your combo.
Sliver Legion is your voltron.
Sliver Overlord is your tool-box.

1v1: All three generals are viable. I would rate them 1.Queen 2.Legion 3.Overlord.

With Queen as your general you have one half (or one third) of your combo available. If you can find Mana Echoes fast enough and protect it, its a wrap. you are either going zerg them or if you have a Necrotic Sliver you can force them to scoop.

Sliver Legion, I wrote this guy off. I don't know why it didn't occur to me that hitting 21 general damage would easier with Legion, opposed to Overlord. I'm trying to flesh out a game plan, but it would be redundant to do so. Play your guys, give him evasion and swing.

Overlord can make things way more complicated than they have to be. He can make anything happen and thats where things get murky. Devise a plan going in or you won't get off the line fast enough and you end up getting blown out.

MP Again each general is viable, but I believe some have better value facing multiple opponents. 1.Overlord 2.Queen 3.Legion

Overlord likes to play it both ways. Multiplayer you need options. Being able to tutor up your combo Queen or buff Legion huge. This deck can get mana intensive. I would refrain from playing any cards (sans Legion and Queen) with CMC 5 or more.

Queen is probably the most fragile build to go with. She is easily enough disrupted in a 1v1 let alone a multiplayer setting. She can, however, go off and win a multiplayer game in a single turn. For that I put her higher than Legion.

Legion can hang against multiple opponents. Beware of getting to aggressive though. Alpha swings should be rare as they can cost you the game. This deck is also susceptible to folding after a board wipe.

____

Spoiler:

No matter what, keep in mind that your General can and will become irrelevant at times. Don't panic. Slivers adapt, you can change your game play on the fly. In some games you will be forced to! Take comfort in the fact that your deck is flexible enough to do that.

Regardless, your choice you will raise some eyebrows and perhaps generate a groan amongst players. Some will know better than to think that your deck is just filled to the rafter with slivers. Others may just assume you need to be eliminated immediately. Be ready to draw heat when you sit down.

The Brood

Spoiler:

If you have gone through the thread from the start up to this point, you noticed a lot of substandard and lackluster slivers have been discarded.

My latest shell is starting to look like it was ripped from CounterSlivers. Definitely not as potent as this is a singleton format, but still threatening. I would recommend this as a starting point for new players.

Deck
Slivers 1 Blade Sliver 1 Crystalline Sliver 1 Gemhide Sliver 1 Heart Sliver 1 Muscle Sliver 1 Necrotic Sliver 1 Plated Sliver 1 Root Sliver 1 Sedge Sliver 1 Sinew Sliver 1 Winged Sliver * 1 Sliver Legion 1 Sliver Queen 1 Sliver Overlord

*One of these will be your general .

There are also a few slivers that should be considered but they are not necessary. These guys can help get damage through, provide more evasion, generate card advantage, or offer another way to win.

Deck
Consider This 1 Frenzy Sliver 1 Talon Sliver 1 Horned Sliver 1 Shadow Sliver 1 Hibernation Sliver 1 Opaline Sliver 1 Quick Sliver 1 Virulent Sliver

If building for 1v1, your Queen deck will run almost no other slivers. If the sliver isn't conducive to the combo it will likely be exempt from your list. For posterity, these are slivers I could see in the Queen Combo build.

Deck
Slivers 1 Necrotic Sliver 1 Heart Sliver 1 Gemhide Sliver 1 Acidic Sliver 1 Cautery Sliver 1 Basal Sliver

Landscaping

Spoiler:

Most land lists are pretty similar and pretty cut and dry. They tend deviate when it comes to what "other lands" you want to run.

Deck
Lands 10 Dual Lands 10 Shock Lands 10 Fetch Lands * X Other Lands

* 5-10 Other Lands

You're other lands are also a pretty standard affair but open to interpretation. Any of these lands might show up in a Sliver list.

Deck
Other Lands 1 City of Brass 1 Rupture Spire 1 Command Tower 1 Volrath's Stronghold 1 Stripmine 1 Wasteland 1 Rishadan Port 1 Ghost Quarter 1 Mutavault 1 Shimmering Grotto 1 Grand Coliseum 1 Reflecting Pool 1 Cavern of Souls 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

If you can fit some basics into your deck, do so. The mana base is fragile and easily disrupted by Blood Moon effects.

Also, if you are dedicated enough to work out your color ratios, you could straight up remove certain dual lands and fetch lands that don't offer as much value as another land. I've yet to do this myself but feel it is worth mentioning.

This is starting to feel like a primer. It is not. The rest of the deck probably has some choices that are clearly sub optimum or are just being tested out.

Relics

Spoiler:

Deck
Trinkets 1 Mox Diamond 1 Tormod's Crypt 1 Expedition Map 1 Pithing Needle 1 Sol Ring 1 Ivory Tower 1 Trusty Machete 1 Sensei's Divining Top 1 Darksteel Axe 1 Darksteel Ingot

If you're playing French rules, ditch your Sol Ring and Sensei's Divining Top.

Ivory Tower is currently being tested. If I can consistently counter balance life loss from Phyrexian Arena and Dark Confidant I'll probably leave it in.

The two equipments are being tested because they are quick to play and quick to equip. I think Swords might be too slow, or at least win more.

Chrome Mox isn't here because there are only two cards that cover all colors and you won't pitch them for a mana rock.

Enchantments

Spoiler:

Short list here. If anyone has a suggestion, let me know.

Deck
1 Oblivion Ring 1 Sylvan Library 1 Mana Echoes 1 Phyrexian Arena

Past permanents, I think the rest of the deck is up in the air. I'm shifting towards strictly 1v1 play (official or french lists). Lots of spot removal, counter spells, and hand disruption. Just in case anyone is interested, here is the deck in its entirety at the moment.

My Deck

Spoiler:

Deck

General 1 Sliver Overlord Lands 10 Dual Lands 10 Shock lands 10 Fetch Lands 1 City of Brass 1 Grand Coliseum 1 Rupture Spire 1 Reflecting pool 1 Ghost Quarter 1 Tectonic Edge 1 Volrath's Stronghold Creatures 1 Muscle Sliver 1 Sinew Sliver 1 Heart Sliver 1 Plated Sliver 1 Winged Sliver 1 Root Sliver 1 Sedge Sliver 1 Gemhide Sliver 1 Crystalline Sliver 1 Necrotic Sliver 1 Sliver Legion 1 Sliver Queen 1 Eternal Witness 1 Trinket Mage 1 Dark Confidant 1 Birds Of Paradise 1 Clone Artifacts 1 Mox Diamond 1 Tormod's Crypt 1 Expedition Map 1 Pithing Needle 1 Sol Ring 1 Ivory Tower 1 Trusty Machete 1 Sensei's Divining Top 1 Darksteel Axe 1 Darksteel Ingot

Enchantments 1 Oblivion Ring 1 Sylvan Library 1 Mana Echoes 1 Phyrexian Arena Instants 1 Terminate 1 Hinder 1 Brainstorm 1 Remand 1 Mortify 1 Putrefy 1 Into the Roil 1 Go for the Throat 1 Rewind 1 Counterspell 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Memory Lapse 1 Miscalculation 1 Forbidden Alchemy 1 Lightning Bolt 1 Swords to Plowshares Sorceries 1 Diabolic Tutor 1 Mulch 1 Inquisition of Kozilek 1 Preordain 1 Maelstrom Pulse 1 Ponder 1 Duress 1 Hull Breach 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Reanimate 1 Hymn to Tourach 1 See Beyond 1 Vindicate Jace 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

If you guys are still playing slivers, I'd like to hear from you!

[DanzBorin]

I think it's cool you keep honing.

I have my deck pretty much where I want it. I honestly haven't played it in a while. I've been playing other generals a bit more.

You dig a lot more than I do. I use ramp (for land types to pull duals) much more than you do. This allows me to combo off in 1 turn usually. I must admit getting training grounds on the board really helps that. I use a lot of tutor effects to do so.

My list isn't near as tightly honed I don't think. But I like to be surprised by my draws as seeing a lot of old cards and getting to play with them is what makes EDH fun for me.

That said, yes, people know the deck and hate on it to high heaven. It's usually an archenemy game from the get go. lol The fun part is still winning even when 3 people are gunning for you.

The deck does well in both 1v1 and Multiplayer.

[Gref]

Hopefully Crux will make an appearance here.

I do indeed dig a lot. I don't trust the top deck. I use to run Top, Sylvan Library and Mirri's Guile. That turned out to be over kill and watered my deck down. Library is still in, but I am another loss away from dropping it and just running Top.

I also used to run a lot of ramp but decided it wasn't working for me. I've managed to mellow out the curve as well. Being able to produce 5 colors is usually enough. I left a few mana rocks and run Mulch in the deck just in case.

I can't remember what prompted me to do this, but I managed to cut out Mystical Tutor and Enlightened Tutor. They just didn't do it for me. Putting whatever I tutored up on the top and not in my hand just felt too slow. Vampiric Tutor gets a pass from me because it can get anything.

Training Grounds was another card I dropped. If I played it I drew heat. If I tutored it and had to reveal it, I was telegraphing my next move(s).

I feel like I should run more Clones, but I'm not willing to buy them .

Gonna try to get some games in soon and report back.

[CruxMDQ]

Whoa, whoa... so much has happened here!

You got me thinking with that huge pseudo-primer post of yours, Gref... I have more or less stuck to my current build for months on now; only swapped out a land to make room for Cavern of Souls. Me, I'm not a 1v1 player, and I'm used to getting flak whenever I play two cards in a row... Everyone here is just scared s**tless of slivers, even if they should fear powerhouses like Rafiq or Sharuum more. Even when they both are on the table. Even when either of them is winning or dominating. :P

*AHEM* But I digress. Again, I'm not for 1v1, so my criticism or advice would not be applicable IMO. Still, your deck reminds me of one of the Spetznaz--not an ounce of fat, rugged, and ruthlessly efficient. Almost control-ish in a way. Seems very deadly on a duel. I could take a page off your book, though... ditching Mystical Tutor for more spot removal does not seem like a bad idea.

I have little to contribute for your decklist, Danz, mostly because I have ran a similar build in the past (but not an identical one). I found I was trying to do everything at once, too, and in doing it got overextended and very vulnerable. So I stuck for a combo-ish approach with a Voltron backup plan, and crammed my build with countermeasures. Your play style may be what's making a difference, though... One of the most veteran players around mauled two different six-player pods with the same deck that saw me curbstomped four times in a row by the same players! (That, I admit, does not picture me favorably skill-wise...)

Since Gref has taken the pains to break down his choices by category, here's my take on each one

Spoiler:

Brood:

Spoiler:

Clearly you're going for a much different plan than mine here. Other than the core slivers (meaning, Crystalline, Gemhide, Heart, possibly Winged, and the evil trifecta), almost all of the 'base' slivers I have ditched for other options. I run the Queen combo myself, so these are all in, except Acidic and Cautery.

I used to run Clone myself, but ditched it for Phantasmal Image, mostly because I tend to use it for legend removal.

Land base:

Spoiler:

Little to say here, really. Every choice here (other than duals, shocks and fetches) is very personal. Including a few basics would be wise indeed, but I just can't bring myself to ditch anything

Relics:

Spoiler:

I never run any equipment myself... usually I only play my commander when Crystalline is on the table, or when I can fetch it without danger.
- Pithing Needle is an awesome idea, I'll have to give that some thought
- At first glance, I thought, "why Ivory Tower when you can have a sliver with lifelink on the table?" Then again, it may not be as threatening.

Enchantments:

Spoiler:

The Timmy in me really wants to experiment with Omniscience, though at first glance it seems entirely redundant... I would like to know your thoughts on this one.

[Pinenutt]

I'm really liking you're list. I know you said you'd like to run more clones but you don't want to buy them, but I'd like to recommend Sakashima the Impostor and Quicksilver Gargantuan. Saka can copy Sliver Legion to make some mega-sized slivers (She could also copy Sliver Queen and Sliver King, or any other Legend for that matter). The Gargantuan could just turn into a really big version of Might Sliver or something else if you wanted (that'd be a mighty Might Sliver, lol).

And I don't know how worried you are about life gain, but Essence Sliver might be kinda valuable to you.

[DanzBorin]

Originally Posted by Pinenutt10

I'm really liking you're list. I know you said you'd like to run more clones but you don't want to buy them, but I'd like to recommend Sakashima the Impostor and Quicksilver Gargantuan. Saka can copy Sliver Legion to make some mega-sized slivers (She could also copy Sliver Queen and Sliver King, or any other Legend for that matter). The Gargantuan could just turn into a really big version of Might Sliver or something else if you wanted (that'd be a mighty Might Sliver, lol).

And I don't know how worried you are about life gain, but Essence Sliver might be kinda valuable to you.

I aim to combo out long before lifegain would have any effect.

I think I need a more ruthless meta to keep me honest. lol I feel like this deck can go in like 20 directions. The nice thing is because of that, I can deal with board wipes very well. Our meta is all about board wipes, so I just need to have Pulmonic Sliver out early or backup plans available.

[CruxMDQ]

After another MtG-heavy weekend, impressions were exchanged as usual about our respective decks, i.e, how much of a pain in the rear that UW Augustine deck is, how much of a nuisance is that Child making everything explode when dying... and, again, how boring combo decks can get on a multiplayer EDH environment. Arguments were tossed back and forth, until a friend of mine hit the spot when he said:

The thing with combo decks is that they just sit there and do nothing, until bam, they just pull a win.

That's why I try to take seemingly harmless players off the table first.

That prompted me to go over my current build, which is quite like Gref's most recent iteration but emphasizing ramp rather than discarding effects. The loads of counters, board wipes and spot removals it has now are geared, we all agree, towards protecting our own play and interfering with others' while we prepare our move.

This friend and I had another discussion about it after our last session. I reflected that going counter-combo with slivers was the logical result of getting consistently subjected to board-wipes whenever I had 3+ slivers on the table, whichever they were, even if they were just bare, simple, lowly 1/1s or 2/2s. And yet I find myself following down the path that led other people here to dismantle their decks because they were so deadly, efficient and cutthroat that nobody would sit on a table with them. Isn't one of the most important things about EDH is that it's supposed to be fun and has to be kept fun for everyone involved?

I have a nagging cuestion, then: would it be possible to build an aggressive, resilient and powerful slivers deck, whichever its general is, without turning it into another cutthroat scare?

[DanzBorin]

Originally Posted by CruxMDQ

I have a nagging cuestion, then: would it be possible to build an aggressive, resilient and powerful slivers deck, whichever its general is, without turning it into another cutthroat scare?

Unfortunately I'd say no.

People are scared of slivers no matter how you build it.

I have so many win cons I try to play my deck different all the time. That said, people don't care, they are just scared.

Voltron - Scared
Combo - Scared
Overrun - Scared
Eek out the win - Scared

[CruxMDQ]

***NOTICE***

The thread is currently on the process of being prepared for application for primer status.

I've sent invites both to DanzBorin and Gref to work on it together.

[Gref]

Originally Posted by DanzBorin

Unfortunately I'd say no.

People are scared of slivers no matter how you build it.

I have so many win cons I try to play my deck different all the time. That said, people don't care, they are just scared.

Voltron - Scared
Combo - Scared
Overrun - Scared
Eek out the win - Scared

basically this. if anyone sees the deck go off regardless of win con it's a wrap. 5c is just super degenerate in what it can do. you could possibly change to a 3c or 4c general with strong enough slivers and try to play quietly. it wouldn't be as nasty as any deck with queen in it.

this is why i switched to 1v1 though. it is expected that decks are going to be built more competitevly and a lot of the "fun factor" of edh is just not there. i think its more fun than* declaring my general and then playing a handicap match against multiple players.