Contamination is the theme of the deck, with Grave Pact seemingly working really well in conjunction with it. Reassembling Skeleton and Nether Traitor are not only good early game plays, but they recur over and over, which should fuel both of those enchantments nicely.
In this deck, I rationalize that Righteous War and BW creatures should provide a winning edge.
Why?
Because Contamination should royally screw over all non-B decks and B decks should be in a heap of trouble, as my BW creatures should now be godly with protection from B. Further, the protection from W, prior to getting Contamination on the field, can also prove useful, as that now should slow down W's exiling spells, like Swords to Plowshares, which can hurt, as I won't be able to recur my creatures from exile zone. Also note that BW creatures also work really well regardless of Contamination being on the battlefield or not, so that appears to work well very nicely as well.
Phyrexian Vault is there for card draw and Vindicate should take care of artifacts/enchantments or anything else problematic.
My biggest issue is this: I'm only running 20 lands and I replaced 4 Swamps with Orzhov Signet. The reason I opted for this is because I don't want to be in a situation where I'm hosed from casting Vindicate because I can't get any W mana and artifacts will be able to be cast regardless of whether Contamination is on the field or not. Further, I can also see a situation where I get Contamination on the field before I get Righteous War out and that would be a problem as well.
I think I'll be okay running only 20 lands with that artifact, as I calculate I have ~87% chance of drawing 2 or more lands by turn 2, which then can fuel this artifact, but I generally dislike not running 24 lands. In any case, I think this strategy should work okay.
Your vindicates seem to be just really out of place. Since the pride can be hardcast in mono black it could stay easy, then righteous war, seems like a dead card.
If you are already locking down their mana with contamination, they will be hard pressed to cast creatures, that doesn't mean grave pact is worthless here of course so I would keep that.
I dunno man the deck seems 95% solid upto the black/white gold cards.
Your vindicates seem to be just really out of place. Since the pride can be hardcast in mono black it could stay easy, then righteous war, seems like a dead card.
If you are already locking down their mana with contamination, they will be hard pressed to cast creatures, that doesn't mean grave pact is worthless here of course so I would keep that.
If any of my opponents are playing B, which some are sure to be, Contamination won't slow them down in the slightest.
And the beauty of Grave Pact is that it gets around everything, from protection to shroud to....
That seems a little too challenging to try and put together.
Hardly it was the fuel for contamination in the 01-02 benzo re-animator deck, that dominated extended for an entire season. I run that with just 1 contamination 1 squee, and 2 horrors and its enough to lock down a table. In addition it give you access to another creature that can at the very least recur itself to the contamination. Considering you can drop the infestation on turn two, contamination on turn three and start the engine, it works. I've locked down 9 people at a time with it. The Lone black player that was there couldn't do anything about the Akroma Beating him down. Though even if he did, the onslaught of zombies he had to deal with was too difficult.
In your deck its far from a stretch. Take it a bit further if you want, go Death Pits of Rath, then whatever those black players have, you just sac a zombie to one of the Horrors, ping, dead.
Okay, how do I destroy artifacts and/or enchantments then?
I'm not exactly sure what enchantments are going to stop you, if you are locking down the table with contamination. I can't even think of any black enchantments off hand that are going to really put you in your place, at any quicker pace than you can defeat them (since you are pretty much hosing every other non black deck)
If you need something though, there are plenty of colorless ways of destroying things like that.
Righteous War, with BW creatures, seems to do exactly that.
If any of my opponents are playing B, which some are sure to be, Contamination won't slow them down in the slightest.
Nope, of course not, but you have the ability to pack things far worse in that case. Mortivore could single-handed, take out that black deck should there be one.
Since you have the core of sacing creatures to abuse Gravepact, there is always Black Market and after a couple revolutions of turns, Exsanguinate, would completely smash quite a few players.
Hardly it was the fuel for contamination in the 01-02 benzo re-animator deck, that dominated extended for an entire season. I run that with just 1 contamination 1 squee, and 2 horrors and its enough to lock down a table. In addition it give you access to another creature that can at the very least recur itself to the contamination. Considering you can drop the infestation on turn two, contamination on turn three and start the engine, it works. I've locked down 9 people at a time with it. The Lone black player that was there couldn't do anything about the Akroma Beating him down. Though even if he did, the onslaught of zombies he had to deal with was too difficult.
Well, I can say I simply don't understand. That's 4 cards that I need to get into my hand in order for that to work and I'd need to understand how to put together all those pieces. Lots of Tutor spells? Other?
Don't get me wrong, that's a really cool engine, but I struggle with how to consistently put that together, on a timely basis.
I'm not exactly sure what enchantments are going to stop you, if you are locking down the table with contamination. I can't even think of any black enchantments off hand that are going to really put you in your place, at any quicker pace than you can defeat them (since you are pretty much hosing every other non black deck)
It isn't just enchantments, it's artifacts as well. I mean, it could be anything. Say, right off the top of my head, Grafted Skullcap with Ensnaring Bridge---yeah, that's going to be ugly with this deck.
Nope, of course not, but you have the ability to pack things far worse in that case. Mortivore could single-handed, take out that black deck should there be one.
Definitely not going to argue the power of Mortivore in a deck like this--he could be strong.
Well, I can say I simply don't understand. That's 4 cards that I need to get into my hand in order for that to work and I'd need to understand how to put together all those pieces. Lots of Tutor spells? Other?
Don't get me wrong, that's a really cool engine, but I struggle with how to consistently put that together, on a timely basis.
I do understand, it helped havingburied alive of course. But I had three of those. Where as I'm suggesting running 4 of the horrors and maybe 2 squee. Its not needed of course just a way to get around people.
It isn't just enchantments, it's artifacts as well. I mean, it could be anything. Say, right off the top of my head, Grafted Skullcap with Ensnaring Bridge---yeah, that's going to be ugly with this deck.
However if you are seeing the grafted skullcap combo at your table, the the pinger aspect of the horror/infestation engine can get around that, then again so can a huge LOSE X LIFE to the face
I do understand, it helped havingburied alive of course. But I had three of those. Where as I'm suggesting running 4 of the horrors and maybe 2 squee. Its not needed of course just a way to get around people.
Yeah, I'm aware of all those options and all of them have drawbacks, especially Nevinyrral's Disk which, in my mind, is a bad answer for this deck, as it takes out my own enchantments.
Vindicate, to me, is far, far more efficient & effective than any of those answers; 3 cmc and I destroy ANYTHING immediately. If it wasn't for Contamination causing me to change my mana sources around a little, it's about as good as it gets, even for a all "Swamp" deck, as those dual lands all count as swamps.
I guess I need to understand the reluctuance to including Vindicate (or Maelstrom Pulse, if I was splashing G).
What---I get style points for having nothing but basic swamps as my land-base or something?
The only significant concern here is that I decreased my land pool from 24 to 20, but I still have ~87% chance of drawing 2 or more lands by turn 2 and if I draw Orzhov Signet early, I can still play it and move forward, as I get 2 mana for 1 mana. Per further thought, I think I will remove the Marsh Flats and replace them with basic swamps, as I will have 12 sources of W mana, which should be plenty.
No forcing yourself to play those b/w cards is committing.
What I'm suggesting are cards that slide easily into your deck. They provide fuel for your decks main lock down engine, it gives you tokens at an alarming rate (you will be producing at least one 2/2 during each persons turn maybe more if you have more in your hand), you have access to a creature Krovikan Horror, that , at its very worst, can recur itself for 3B, and then 1: sac something deal damage to something. THIS replaces the need for splashing white at all. It gets around any creature attack lockdown, and fuels gravepact hate.
I'm not saying you can't run it that way, I'm just a big stickler to, if you can run it mono, do it. :P.
But please don't take my feedback the wrong way. The vindicate I can see staying but the need for righteous war is what really is getting me.
What I'm suggesting are cards that slide easily into your deck. They provide fuel for your decks main lock down engine, it gives you tokens at an alarming rate (you will be producing at least one 2/2 during each persons turn maybe more if you have more in your hand)
When you say fuel my deck, you mean the 2/2 Zombies, yes? I don't understand how Krovikan Horror does by itself.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd need 3Krovikan Horror in my GY, as well as Zombie Infestation in play, to generate a 2/2 zombie, each turn, yes?
you have access to a creature Krovikan Horror, that , at its very worst, can recur itself for 3B, and then 1: sac something deal damage to something. THIS replaces the need for splashing white at all. It gets around any creature attack lockdown, and fuels gravepact hate.
I don't understand what you mean when you say, "It gets around any creature attack lockdown." What does?
You mean Grave Pact in conjunction with sacrificing creatures?
I agree with domogrue that Vindicate is always great for spot removal, and really think that just about every deck should try and have some form of spot removal.
I don't understand what you mean when you say, "It gets around any creature attack lockdown." What does?
You mean Grave Pact in conjunction with sacrificing creatures?
LOL, and here I am thinking that the Righteous War was rather clever when used with BW creatures...
What would be your win-con? Swarm with a bunch of 2/2 zombies or something?
{1}, Sacrifice a creature: Krovikan Horror deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
That's the first thing.
Notice no where, did I say you have to use buried alive. If you do, you are going to generate the engine much faster. All of your creatures including the horrors, have interactions with going in and out of the graveyard, or serve a purpose by doing so.
If you combine the above ability with the swarms, you produce more than enough for your lockdown, yet producing an ability to get around a creature lockdown, (so if you can't attack you just stack a whole lot of pingers.
Not sure why you removed the prides, those are ok. they are basically an 8/8 for BBBBB. From you naturally locking out all non black decks, there aren't many removal options what I've seen consistently used in mp that can target non black creatures from black mana. Maybe Damnation. But there isn't anything that can be done about that. This guy can go either way though to be honest.
However, you are going way farther away then what I was suggesting. You are looking way to far into my suggestions. I'm not condoning a complete rework of your deck YOU want to play.
I'm trying to point out, you have 8 creatures already in your deck that can recur themselves. (this is from the OP) Which fuel your contamination. You are dedicating 4 card slots to protect 4 main bombs (DoPs), and your other smaller creatures. Which won't get past any lockdown themselves, which is why the vindicates can stay and why I wasn't really harping on that nearly as much as that R.War.
If we look at it from a break down for each card,
Zombie Infestation - This card alone is just a decent card. It can turn dead cards into creatures. That's the lowest form. It puts your skeletons and Shadows into your graveyard where they can come back later. But its not with out reward, you get a 2/2. The start of your contamination lock, and it can be done at any time, when you want, so its almost like have another set of skeletons at your disposal. However, because it is a very demanding engine and a high cost you have to get something out of it right?
Krovikan Horror - It's a 2/2 for 4. Nothing special there. However when he's discarded with one of his brothers or any of the other creatures you have, which can be saced you can stack them when the hit the grave so you can always manipulate the out come 90% of the time. He can always become a sac outlet for your extra zombies to get around hard locks that prevent attacking when you don't have a Vindicate ready. Also it can get back to your hand to hard cast if you need it. However, its why I still suggest,
Squee, Goblin Nabob just a couple if that. It really only takes 1 of them, and two horrors for zombie infestation to get stupid, which with
Buried Alive already tutors up your desperately needed cards to revive themselves to feed your lockdown.
Bottomline though if someone else is using a grafted skull cap/ensnaring bridge, then that's good news. That means they locked down the entire table from attacks, and if you combined the above tactics with insane mana produces for black:
You can spend mana like no other, sac zombies all day long and ping the biggest threats first. The more horrors and squees passing through infestation the bigger your swarm will get.
Also, if you are concerned about mana, there is always Blood Celebrate, keeps you mono black, gives you access to what color you need, and at the very least is an outlet to keep contamination going one more turn since he is a creature.
All of my suggestions are based off your thread title and what you wish from your deck. To have Contamination be the theme of your deck.
interesting. I thought I'd already posted, but why not bitterblossom? seems a shoe in alongside contamination.
I agree with this as well. I would probably use these over the skeletons, add them with the zombie infestation engine you have 2 ways to feed contamination before it even comes out.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd need 3Krovikan Horror in my GY, as well as Zombie Infestation in play, to generate a 2/2 zombie, each turn, yes?
During EACH players turns. Its a verdant force on crack. But it really needs squee more than anything. I would run 3 horrors and 2 squee. More the better of course.
interesting. I thought I'd already posted, but why not bitterblossom? seems a shoe in alongside contamination.
Yeah, definitely a thought.
The reason I didn't initially include this was twofold: in MP, life/lifegain seems to take on a more important role than simply dealing damage. As such, the loss of 1 life per turn wasn't massively appealing. Further, I see more opportunities to block with Nether Traitor and Reassembling Skeleton once I get one/both into play/my GY, as well as the fact that I wanted creatures to sacrifice to Phyrexian Vault, as well as to Contamination.
The drawback, of course, is mana to activate their abilities, but it seemed reasonable at first glance.
Perhaps a combination between the two might be good though...
{1}, Sacrifice a creature: Krovikan Horror deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
That's the first thing.
Apologies for not being clear. I meant it along the lines of swarming via an attack of 2/2s, or swarming via sacrifice via a bunch of 2/2s. The bottom line is this: generating a swarm of tokens is the win-con, in one form or another.
Notice no where, did I say you have to use buried alive. If you do, you are going to generate the engine much faster.
Notice nowhere did I say you said to use Buried Alive either. But comments like, "you are going to generate the engine much faster" & "it helped having Buried Alive," don't exactly conjure up negative impressions either.
From you naturally locking out all non black decks, there aren't many removal options what I've seen consistently used in mp that can target non black creatures from black mana. Maybe Damnation. But there isn't anything that can be done about that. This guy can go either way though to be honest.
Unmake fits the bill and "Remove from Game" cards are fairly common in my meta (mostly W, like STP, PTE, etc., but Unmake is gaining more momemtum as time goes on)
However, you are going way farther away then what I was suggesting. You are looking way to far into my suggestions. I'm not condoning a complete rework of your deck YOU want to play.
I honestly have no particular tie to the initial version. Heck, I was just trying to be really creative is all.
Zombie Infestation - This card alone is just a decent card. It can turn dead cards into creatures. That's the lowest form. It puts your skeletons and Shadows into your graveyard where they can come back later. But its not with out reward, you get a 2/2. The start of your contamination lock, and it can be done at any time, when you want, so its almost like have another set of skeletons at your disposal. However, because it is a very demanding engine and a high cost you have to get something out of it right?
Yeah, I REALLY like the Zombie Infestation and Krovikan Horror engine, ESPECIALLY in a 4/5-man game where I can make a 2/2 at the end of each turn--that's money.
During EACH players turns. Its a verdant force on crack. But it really needs squee more than anything. I would run 3 horrors and 2 squee. More the better of course.
If I do end up running Buried Alive, I wouldn't think that Squee would be needed, yes?
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My typical MP format is 5 total players, star-format. FFA, but you only need to eliminate your 2 non-adjacent opponents to win.
squee is there so should something interupt the stack of your horrors say I don't maybe someone makes a land hit your graveyard, you have a way to keep the engine going. It might be rare to happen, but maybe at least 1 squee. I would always lead the engine into 2 horror 1 squee unless you have the squee in hand then 3 horrors and a squee, pitch a card and squee, putting squee ontop of the 3 horrors and let the fun begin.
squee is there so should something interupt the stack of your horrors say I don't maybe someone makes a land hit your graveyard, you have a way to keep the engine going. It might be rare to happen, but maybe at least 1 squee. I would always lead the engine into 2 horror 1 squee unless you have the squee in hand then 3 horrors and a squee, pitch a card and squee, putting squee ontop of the 3 horrors and let the fun begin.
LOL, yeah, 3 Horrors and 1 Squee would be SICK...
Okay, I've got to revise that a little bit. Generating THAT many 2/2 zombies is just way too hysterical to pass up.
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My typical MP format is 5 total players, star-format. FFA, but you only need to eliminate your 2 non-adjacent opponents to win.
IMO, ditch the vault and go 4x skull clamps 2: Draw two cards, or 1: Draw two cards.
That IS a card I considered and probably would have been included, but I'm trying to not abuse that right now. Besides, with Phyrexian Vault I get to do it on an opponent's turn.
Depends on my mood tomorrow when we play. I might throw Skullclamp in...
I'm already trying to acquire the cards I'm missing, hopefully I'll get to building soon! Looks like this could be a fun deck that gradually generates an advantage with it's creatures and recursion while denying the opponent of resources (mana: Braids and Contamination; creatures: Attrition, Plaguelord, Grave Pact; cards: Mindslicer and Mind Slash).
I do really like many of the cards you mention and specifically considered a few like Attrition and Mind Slash and such. (NOTE: I would NOT run some cards, say, like Diabolic Intent as one might as well run other B search cards that don't require a sacrifice, like Demonic Tutor, etc.).
But when you are running Grave Pact in a deck like this, you've got creature kill nailed, so much so, you probably don't need anything else. Mind Slash would be great, but I just don't have the room for it.
Regarding creature kill, you are right. Problem is I have no Pacts right now and I think I can manage with Attrition.
On Diabolic Intent, I know Demonic Tutor is better, but I try not to cram the best of the best in every deck. My MBC-deck has one in it, but that's it. Same reason I don't play Sol Ring in every deck. But hey, that's just personal preference. I like decks that can turn 'strictly worse'-cards like Diabolic Intent into cards that are better than their inspiration. Try saccing Mindslicer to Diabolic Intent. Oh yes.
Finally, I think Mind Slash isn't worth it. When you are playing the mana denial game, many cards won't be that interesting to your opponent. It's a bit like playing Words of Waste alongside Howling Mine to me.
I decided I'm not going for the Bitterblossoms, as they are still very pricy. That leaves me with not a whole lot of new cards to acquire, so I think I can start brewing
nothing wrong with breeding pit, creakwood leige, infernal genesis, its slower sure, but it gets the job done all the same.
C'mon, don't tell me this thread is dead! Lunaticfringe, how's your decklist doing?
One of our buddies was NOT able to make it, so we spent much of the time playing 2-man team games, 4 players total. As such, I didn't trot this deck out, as I didn't want to hose my teammate.
which leaves me 4 cards short and I'm not sure what to add. Buried Alive?
At the moment, I'm strongly leaning towards something early game defense. Early game defense is absolutely KEY in my meta, especially for me, as my buddies know damn good and well that when my decks get rolling, they can be very challenging, so they don't hesitate for a moment in eliminating me. Early game defense is of utmost importance in my deck builds.
I'm loving Shriekmaw, as that can be early game defense and it really stacks nicely with Grave Pact.
Have you ever considered to play your contamination deck more creature based? Don't forget that Krovikan Horror is also able to fuel Tortured Existence which allows you to play very strong black etb creatures (Shriekmaw, Gatekeeper of Malakir, AByssal Gatekeeper, Fleshbag Marauder, Mesmeric Fiend ...) over and over again. Tortured Existence is also able to "reactivate" Krovikan Horrors in case there is a non-creature card above them.
An excellent idea. I think I'll do that version of this deck in my next attempt.
If not those, personally, I'd run Mindslicer you want to see a card that makes people leave you alone, that's the one Besides if you dump your hand, OH well, that's where it gets along better anyway LOL
If not those, personally, I'd run Mindslicer you want to see a card that makes people leave you alone, that's the one Besides if you dump your hand, OH well, that's where it gets along better anyway LOL
LMAO--good call there.
The only drawback is that I'm not sure I'd say 4 cmc is "early game," but that overwhelmingly screams leave this creature alone.
Oh god, that's hysterical though---now you have given me incentive to use/abuse that card alone...
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My typical MP format is 5 total players, star-format. FFA, but you only need to eliminate your 2 non-adjacent opponents to win.
4 Reassembling Skeleton
4 Nether Traitor
4 Restless Apparition
4 Divinity of Pride
**4 Sorcery**
4 Vindicate
4 Grave Pact
4 Contamination
4 Righteous War
**9 Artifacts**
1 Sol Ring
4 Phyrexian Vault
4 Orzhov Signet
4 Scrubland
4 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
8 Swamps
Contamination is the theme of the deck, with Grave Pact seemingly working really well in conjunction with it. Reassembling Skeleton and Nether Traitor are not only good early game plays, but they recur over and over, which should fuel both of those enchantments nicely.
In this deck, I rationalize that Righteous War and BW creatures should provide a winning edge.
Why?
Because Contamination should royally screw over all non-B decks and B decks should be in a heap of trouble, as my BW creatures should now be godly with protection from B. Further, the protection from W, prior to getting Contamination on the field, can also prove useful, as that now should slow down W's exiling spells, like Swords to Plowshares, which can hurt, as I won't be able to recur my creatures from exile zone. Also note that BW creatures also work really well regardless of Contamination being on the battlefield or not, so that appears to work well very nicely as well.
Phyrexian Vault is there for card draw and Vindicate should take care of artifacts/enchantments or anything else problematic.
My biggest issue is this: I'm only running 20 lands and I replaced 4 Swamps with Orzhov Signet. The reason I opted for this is because I don't want to be in a situation where I'm hosed from casting Vindicate because I can't get any W mana and artifacts will be able to be cast regardless of whether Contamination is on the field or not. Further, I can also see a situation where I get Contamination on the field before I get Righteous War out and that would be a problem as well.
I think I'll be okay running only 20 lands with that artifact, as I calculate I have ~87% chance of drawing 2 or more lands by turn 2, which then can fuel this artifact, but I generally dislike not running 24 lands. In any case, I think this strategy should work okay.
Thoughts?
Kokusho, The Evening Star, Exsanguinate and Glen Elendra Archmage have a restriction of 1 per deck.
Your vindicates seem to be just really out of place. Since the pride can be hardcast in mono black it could stay easy, then righteous war, seems like a dead card.
If you are already locking down their mana with contamination, they will be hard pressed to cast creatures, that doesn't mean grave pact is worthless here of course so I would keep that.
I dunno man the deck seems 95% solid upto the black/white gold cards.
That seems a little too challenging to try and put together.
Vindicate out of place?
Okay, how do I destroy artifacts and/or enchantments then?
And how would you punish B decks then?
Righteous War, with BW creatures, seems to do exactly that.
If any of my opponents are playing B, which some are sure to be, Contamination won't slow them down in the slightest.
And the beauty of Grave Pact is that it gets around everything, from protection to shroud to....
Kokusho, The Evening Star, Exsanguinate and Glen Elendra Archmage have a restriction of 1 per deck.
Hardly it was the fuel for contamination in the 01-02 benzo re-animator deck, that dominated extended for an entire season. I run that with just 1 contamination 1 squee, and 2 horrors and its enough to lock down a table. In addition it give you access to another creature that can at the very least recur itself to the contamination. Considering you can drop the infestation on turn two, contamination on turn three and start the engine, it works. I've locked down 9 people at a time with it. The Lone black player that was there couldn't do anything about the Akroma Beating him down. Though even if he did, the onslaught of zombies he had to deal with was too difficult.
In your deck its far from a stretch. Take it a bit further if you want, go Death Pits of Rath, then whatever those black players have, you just sac a zombie to one of the Horrors, ping, dead.
I'm not exactly sure what enchantments are going to stop you, if you are locking down the table with contamination. I can't even think of any black enchantments off hand that are going to really put you in your place, at any quicker pace than you can defeat them (since you are pretty much hosing every other non black deck)
If you need something though, there are plenty of colorless ways of destroying things like that.
Nope, of course not, but you have the ability to pack things far worse in that case. Mortivore could single-handed, take out that black deck should there be one.
Since you have the core of sacing creatures to abuse Gravepact, there is always Black Market and after a couple revolutions of turns, Exsanguinate, would completely smash quite a few players.
Not gonna argue the power of the pact. I know its awesome.
We could use your feedback in the MP thread We need to get the mods to see this place needs an MP forum badly!
Just my $0.02
Fattycakes Zombie of Clan Limited
Well, I can say I simply don't understand. That's 4 cards that I need to get into my hand in order for that to work and I'd need to understand how to put together all those pieces. Lots of Tutor spells? Other?
Don't get me wrong, that's a really cool engine, but I struggle with how to consistently put that together, on a timely basis.
It isn't just enchantments, it's artifacts as well. I mean, it could be anything. Say, right off the top of my head, Grafted Skullcap with Ensnaring Bridge---yeah, that's going to be ugly with this deck.
I'd be delighted to read them.
Definitely not going to argue the power of Mortivore in a deck like this--he could be strong.
Sure. Not sure what you need from me there though
Kokusho, The Evening Star, Exsanguinate and Glen Elendra Archmage have a restriction of 1 per deck.
I do understand, it helped havingburied alive of course. But I had three of those. Where as I'm suggesting running 4 of the horrors and maybe 2 squee. Its not needed of course just a way to get around people.
Powder Keg, Oblivion Stone, Nevinyrral's Disk ( house with mortivore to regen), Gate to Phyrexia, Ratchet Bomb.
However if you are seeing the grafted skullcap combo at your table, the the pinger aspect of the horror/infestation engine can get around that, then again so can a huge LOSE X LIFE to the face
;D
Your input, or general activity, your deck list you post in each separate thread. Just the activity is what we need.
So I'm sacrificing a zombie to feed Contamination?
And I'm commiting 9 cards to this combo?
I think I'd be interested in seeing a complete/near-complete deck.
Yeah, I'm aware of all those options and all of them have drawbacks, especially Nevinyrral's Disk which, in my mind, is a bad answer for this deck, as it takes out my own enchantments.
Vindicate, to me, is far, far more efficient & effective than any of those answers; 3 cmc and I destroy ANYTHING immediately. If it wasn't for Contamination causing me to change my mana sources around a little, it's about as good as it gets, even for a all "Swamp" deck, as those dual lands all count as swamps.
I guess I need to understand the reluctuance to including Vindicate (or Maelstrom Pulse, if I was splashing G).
What---I get style points for having nothing but basic swamps as my land-base or something?
The only significant concern here is that I decreased my land pool from 24 to 20, but I still have ~87% chance of drawing 2 or more lands by turn 2 and if I draw Orzhov Signet early, I can still play it and move forward, as I get 2 mana for 1 mana. Per further thought, I think I will remove the Marsh Flats and replace them with basic swamps, as I will have 12 sources of W mana, which should be plenty.
/confused
Whatever is needed.
Kokusho, The Evening Star, Exsanguinate and Glen Elendra Archmage have a restriction of 1 per deck.
What I'm suggesting are cards that slide easily into your deck. They provide fuel for your decks main lock down engine, it gives you tokens at an alarming rate (you will be producing at least one 2/2 during each persons turn maybe more if you have more in your hand), you have access to a creature Krovikan Horror, that , at its very worst, can recur itself for 3B, and then 1: sac something deal damage to something. THIS replaces the need for splashing white at all. It gets around any creature attack lockdown, and fuels gravepact hate.
I'm not saying you can't run it that way, I'm just a big stickler to, if you can run it mono, do it. :P.
But please don't take my feedback the wrong way. The vindicate I can see staying but the need for righteous war is what really is getting me.
When you say fuel my deck, you mean the 2/2 Zombies, yes? I don't understand how Krovikan Horror does by itself.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd need 3 Krovikan Horror in my GY, as well as Zombie Infestation in play, to generate a 2/2 zombie, each turn, yes?
Squee, Goblin Nabob only works on my upkeep.
As such, I guess you are recommending:
4 Buried Alive
4 Krovikan Horror
4 Zombie Infestation
Correct?
The best I can come up with in that situation would be:
4 Reassembling Skeleton
4 Nether Traitor
4 Krovikan Horror
**8 Sorcery**
4 Vindicate
4 Buried Alive
4 Grave Pact
4 Contamination
4 Zombie Infestation
**9 Artifacts**
1 Sol Ring
4 Phyrexian Vault
4 Orzhov Signet
4 Scrubland
4 Godless Shrine
12 Swamps
I don't understand what you mean when you say, "It gets around any creature attack lockdown." What does?
You mean Grave Pact in conjunction with sacrificing creatures?
LOL, and here I am thinking that the Righteous War was rather clever when used with BW creatures...
What would be your win-con? Swarm with a bunch of 2/2 zombies or something?
Kokusho, The Evening Star, Exsanguinate and Glen Elendra Archmage have a restriction of 1 per deck.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Also agree with wletkrieg on Bitterblossom, personally I like it better than your Reassembling Skeleton and Nether Traitor combo.
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"STAY CLEAR OF WHITE POWDER"
311 "Who's Got the Herb"
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{1}, Sacrifice a creature: Krovikan Horror deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
That's the first thing.
Notice no where, did I say you have to use buried alive. If you do, you are going to generate the engine much faster. All of your creatures including the horrors, have interactions with going in and out of the graveyard, or serve a purpose by doing so.
If you combine the above ability with the swarms, you produce more than enough for your lockdown, yet producing an ability to get around a creature lockdown, (so if you can't attack you just stack a whole lot of pingers.
Not sure why you removed the prides, those are ok. they are basically an 8/8 for BBBBB. From you naturally locking out all non black decks, there aren't many removal options what I've seen consistently used in mp that can target non black creatures from black mana. Maybe Damnation. But there isn't anything that can be done about that. This guy can go either way though to be honest.
However, you are going way farther away then what I was suggesting. You are looking way to far into my suggestions. I'm not condoning a complete rework of your deck YOU want to play.
I'm trying to point out, you have 8 creatures already in your deck that can recur themselves. (this is from the OP) Which fuel your contamination. You are dedicating 4 card slots to protect 4 main bombs (DoPs), and your other smaller creatures. Which won't get past any lockdown themselves, which is why the vindicates can stay and why I wasn't really harping on that nearly as much as that R.War.
If we look at it from a break down for each card,
Zombie Infestation - This card alone is just a decent card. It can turn dead cards into creatures. That's the lowest form. It puts your skeletons and Shadows into your graveyard where they can come back later. But its not with out reward, you get a 2/2. The start of your contamination lock, and it can be done at any time, when you want, so its almost like have another set of skeletons at your disposal. However, because it is a very demanding engine and a high cost you have to get something out of it right?
Krovikan Horror - It's a 2/2 for 4. Nothing special there. However when he's discarded with one of his brothers or any of the other creatures you have, which can be saced you can stack them when the hit the grave so you can always manipulate the out come 90% of the time. He can always become a sac outlet for your extra zombies to get around hard locks that prevent attacking when you don't have a Vindicate ready. Also it can get back to your hand to hard cast if you need it. However, its why I still suggest,
Squee, Goblin Nabob just a couple if that. It really only takes 1 of them, and two horrors for zombie infestation to get stupid, which with
Buried Alive already tutors up your desperately needed cards to revive themselves to feed your lockdown.
Bottomline though if someone else is using a grafted skull cap/ensnaring bridge, then that's good news. That means they locked down the entire table from attacks, and if you combined the above tactics with insane mana produces for black:
Bog Witch
Magnus of the Coffer
You can spend mana like no other, sac zombies all day long and ping the biggest threats first. The more horrors and squees passing through infestation the bigger your swarm will get.
Also, if you are concerned about mana, there is always Blood Celebrate, keeps you mono black, gives you access to what color you need, and at the very least is an outlet to keep contamination going one more turn since he is a creature.
All of my suggestions are based off your thread title and what you wish from your deck. To have Contamination be the theme of your deck.
I agree with this as well. I would probably use these over the skeletons, add them with the zombie infestation engine you have 2 ways to feed contamination before it even comes out.
During EACH players turns. Its a verdant force on crack. But it really needs squee more than anything. I would run 3 horrors and 2 squee. More the better of course.
Yeah, definitely a thought.
The reason I didn't initially include this was twofold: in MP, life/lifegain seems to take on a more important role than simply dealing damage. As such, the loss of 1 life per turn wasn't massively appealing. Further, I see more opportunities to block with Nether Traitor and Reassembling Skeleton once I get one/both into play/my GY, as well as the fact that I wanted creatures to sacrifice to Phyrexian Vault, as well as to Contamination.
The drawback, of course, is mana to activate their abilities, but it seemed reasonable at first glance.
Perhaps a combination between the two might be good though...
Apologies for not being clear. I meant it along the lines of swarming via an attack of 2/2s, or swarming via sacrifice via a bunch of 2/2s. The bottom line is this: generating a swarm of tokens is the win-con, in one form or another.
Notice nowhere did I say you said to use Buried Alive either. But comments like, "you are going to generate the engine much faster" & "it helped having Buried Alive," don't exactly conjure up negative impressions either.
I don't see this in this deck. Pride would probably need several hits in order for that to work out.
Unmake fits the bill and "Remove from Game" cards are fairly common in my meta (mostly W, like STP, PTE, etc., but Unmake is gaining more momemtum as time goes on)
I honestly have no particular tie to the initial version. Heck, I was just trying to be really creative is all.
Agree, as well as Phyrexian Vault.
Yeah, I REALLY like the Zombie Infestation and Krovikan Horror engine, ESPECIALLY in a 4/5-man game where I can make a 2/2 at the end of each turn--that's money.
If I do end up running Buried Alive, I wouldn't think that Squee would be needed, yes?
Kokusho, The Evening Star, Exsanguinate and Glen Elendra Archmage have a restriction of 1 per deck.
LOL, yeah, 3 Horrors and 1 Squee would be SICK...
Okay, I've got to revise that a little bit. Generating THAT many 2/2 zombies is just way too hysterical to pass up.
Kokusho, The Evening Star, Exsanguinate and Glen Elendra Archmage have a restriction of 1 per deck.
That IS a card I considered and probably would have been included, but I'm trying to not abuse that right now. Besides, with Phyrexian Vault I get to do it on an opponent's turn.
Depends on my mood tomorrow when we play. I might throw Skullclamp in...
I do really like many of the cards you mention and specifically considered a few like Attrition and Mind Slash and such. (NOTE: I would NOT run some cards, say, like Diabolic Intent as one might as well run other B search cards that don't require a sacrifice, like Demonic Tutor, etc.).
But when you are running Grave Pact in a deck like this, you've got creature kill nailed, so much so, you probably don't need anything else. Mind Slash would be great, but I just don't have the room for it.
Kokusho, The Evening Star, Exsanguinate and Glen Elendra Archmage have a restriction of 1 per deck.
nothing wrong with breeding pit, creakwood leige, infernal genesis, its slower sure, but it gets the job done all the same.
One of our buddies was NOT able to make it, so we spent much of the time playing 2-man team games, 4 players total. As such, I didn't trot this deck out, as I didn't want to hose my teammate.
The decklist is currently sitting as:
4 Reassembling Skeleton
4 Nether Traitor
4 Krovikan Horror
**4 Sorcery**
4 Vindicate
4 Grave Pact
4 Contamination
4 Zombie Infestation
**9 Artifacts**
1 Sol Ring
4 Skullclamp
4 Orzhov Signet
4 Scrubland
4 Godless Shrine
12 Swamps
which leaves me 4 cards short and I'm not sure what to add. Buried Alive?
At the moment, I'm strongly leaning towards something early game defense. Early game defense is absolutely KEY in my meta, especially for me, as my buddies know damn good and well that when my decks get rolling, they can be very challenging, so they don't hesitate for a moment in eliminating me. Early game defense is of utmost importance in my deck builds.
I'm loving Shriekmaw, as that can be early game defense and it really stacks nicely with Grave Pact.
Myr Servitor seems like a decent choice.
Abyssal Gatekeeper also screams, "DON'T ATTACK!" as well, so that's interesting.
An excellent idea. I think I'll do that version of this deck in my next attempt.
Kokusho, The Evening Star, Exsanguinate and Glen Elendra Archmage have a restriction of 1 per deck.
Yeah, that's highest on my hit list, but damn, I really like some of those other options...
Kokusho, The Evening Star, Exsanguinate and Glen Elendra Archmage have a restriction of 1 per deck.
LMAO--good call there.
The only drawback is that I'm not sure I'd say 4 cmc is "early game," but that overwhelmingly screams leave this creature alone.
Oh god, that's hysterical though---now you have given me incentive to use/abuse that card alone...
Kokusho, The Evening Star, Exsanguinate and Glen Elendra Archmage have a restriction of 1 per deck.