So I've had my old chum Angus Mackenzie in my phelddagrif deck, conveniently protecting me from damage and subbing in for phelddagrif in 1v1 matches. I'm hoping to create something viable for multiplayer as well as 1v1 (moreso multiplayer) without subs, though, so he's going to be my new general.
I'll be adding in tutors and mana once I've gotten the rest of the deck nailed down, but here's what I've got so far, by function:
the basic theme of the deck is low-cost, high-effect creatures like mistmeadow witch and rhys the redeemed. removal and counters function to disrupt combo. Deterrents and removal function to dissuade attacks and offensive spells. Protection and recursion make sure my stuff stays alive, and that i can recycle my counters and removal and whatnot. draw is mostly high-power stuff so i can rip through my deck pretty quickly and get a large number of cheap, yet potent, creatures on the field.
There are a variety of wincon-ish cards, but for the most part I avoided an obvious combo or "kill spell" or whatever, so that I can't be easily disabled.
the "other" category is sort of large and it's pissing me off.
so yeah, i'm looking for good advice on what i should remove. hmm.
some cards like seedborn muse directly help with angus though
i always considered going a lifegain route, with protective enchantments like Propaganda and the like, then win with all the white "you win the game" cards like Celestial Convergence / Felidar Sovereign
Being Aggro
Looking through this deck and re-reading your description, I feel like there is a disconnect between what you say you want and what you're going to get. Angus Mackenzie feels more like a control deck than an aggro deck. I feel like you could get better results from Jenara, Asura of War, Rafiq of the Many or Pheldagriff. That said, he does reduce the ability of your opponents to counter-attack, so it's justifiable.
Moving right along - small, aggressive beaters are the hallmark of an aggro deck, which is on a handicap when playing multiplayer. If you're running small creatures, don't run wraths. Replace them with Armageddon, Stasis-lock, Rising Waters, Winter Orb and Hokori, Dust Drinker.
Your countersuite could be replaced with more bounce or answers to specific permanent types, or with Garruk and both Elspeths (I say that, but the only reason I have any planeswalkers at all is because of duel decks, so take that with a grain of salt).
If you're a fan of the countersuite and wraths, I recommend embracing the control aspect that your deck is leading you towards and run some big critters. Akroma, various sphinxes and angels, etc.
I hope this helps, even if it isn't the quick fix you were looking for.
some cards like seedborn muse directly help with angus though
i always considered going a lifegain route, with protective enchantments like Propaganda and the like, then win with all the white "you win the game" cards like Celestial Convergence / Felidar Sovereign
what's your aim for the deck?
yeah, seedborn muse is at the high end of my cmc but it is a pretty effective bomb in combo with most of the rest of the cards. dear god, imagine arcanis or jushi apprentice...yikes. and ertai gets pretty badass too...there's just too many shenannigans not to want to use it.
Lifegain usually bores me, and I'm not really a huge fan of the propaganda line of cards. Angus pretty much throttles most offense, and whatever he doesn't deal with my other deterrents should. Anyway, I don't really want the whole deck to be depending on one of a few cards to win.
EDIT:
I guess to describe my thought process with this deck, it was something like this:
"Man, mistmeadow witch is so freaking cool, it only costs 2 mana but it can seriously screw with the game state. you can protect your dudes from removal, even wraths, negate enemy attacks, remove enemy blockers, save enemy dudes as a favor...it's just bonkers powerful but it only costs 2 mana."
"Hey, now that I think about it, there's a lot of cool creatures like that. spurnmage advocate just costs 1, and who the hell would attack THAT in a multiplayer game? He can waste attackers - even ones not attacking you - and return cards to people's hands to make temporary allies. and since you choose the cards, you can choose the stuff you WANT to get played...like a wrath if the field is too dangerous or whatever. and he just costs ONE!"
"and azorius guildmage, he's sweet too! just 2 mana, and he pretty much wrecks everything. tapdown destroys creatures and counters ruin all sorts of stuff. I'm never disappointed to draw into azorius guildmage, and i've always got the mana to play him!"
"And crikey, mother of runes is one of the all-time greats. In multiplayer, who's going to target the guy's creatures who can counter it with just a tap? No one, they'll target someone else. and besides that, it can be (or make) an invincible blocker, or even help evasion, and all for just 1 mana! That's way more flexible than one-use boring pieces of crap like inkwell leviathan that cost a thousand times more, and yet it's the stupid, expensive beaters that draw tons of table hate that people always run in edh, when there are so many awesome, exciting, flexible creatures down at the bottom of the curve."
So basically, I'm packing all the coolest, cheapest creatures that I can into one deck and hoping to exploit the crap out of them.
Being Aggro
Looking through this deck and re-reading your description, I feel like there is a disconnect between what you say you want and what you're going to get. Angus Mackenzie feels more like a control deck than an aggro deck. I feel like you could get better results from Jenara, Asura of War, Rafiq of the Many or Pheldagriff. That said, he does reduce the ability of your opponents to counter-attack, so it's justifiable.
Moving right along - small, aggressive beaters are the hallmark of an aggro deck, which is on a handicap when playing multiplayer. If you're running small creatures, don't run wraths. Replace them with Armageddon, Stasis-lock, Rising Waters, Winter Orb and Hokori, Dust Drinker.
Your countersuite could be replaced with more bounce or answers to specific permanent types, or with Garruk and both Elspeths (I say that, but the only reason I have any planeswalkers at all is because of duel decks, so take that with a grain of salt).
If you're a fan of the countersuite and wraths, I recommend embracing the control aspect that your deck is leading you towards and run some big critters. Akroma, various sphinxes and angels, etc.
I hope this helps, even if it isn't the quick fix you were looking for.
hmm, really, not liking rootwater? I mean, it's not about damage, I just want the bugger to neuter combo decks. especially paired with mother of runes or 8.5 it seems like it could get through pretty easily. Anyway, it's there as an aggressive tool to take care of combos and learn what other people's decks are about. I like it more than jester's cap or the like because it can hit multiple people.
icatian priest i like because he's cheap and can be a nifty political trick, but the ability is definitely a bit expensive. i dunno, i might give him a test run at least. for 1 mana he seems like he could be a fairly important force on the table, but on the other hand i hate having to leave a ton of mana open. Actually, now that i think about it seedcradle witch is about 100x better. so yeah, screw him.
sigil tracer i just took out since i don't have enough wizards to make it awesome, and i don't have many spells worth copying either so i'm relying on my enemies for that. surrakar i like and i'm going to give him a test drive. yes, he's not very evasive but i do have some cards that help with that. and anyway he could easily be drawing me a half-dozen cards a turn if left unchecked.
leyline, idk. It seems pretty great for a deck that wants to leave lots of mana open for angus, counters, seedcradle, whatever. I want to at least try it out. vedalken orrery used to be on the "best cards" list and it's a non-leyline version of the same thing. I want to at least give it a try.
anyway, i think you misunderstood my description - this is not an aggro deck, by any means. I'm running cheap creatures because I want to overload the field with powerful control effects as fast as possible, not to win via fast beats. I've never liked playing aggro much, and in multiplayer it's sort of suicidal. the deck is more aggressively control than my phelddagrif deck (which basically used friendliness as its way of avoiding hate...which worked great but was almost TOO easy...people are really freaking gullible...). I think it'll help in 1v1 games too.
So yeah, that's basically the strategy.
oh, and i'm adding training grounds...duh! how did i forget that? =/
Have you considered Holistic Wisdom to help with recursion? It has done really good work for me in my Angus deck.
hmm...well, besides my moral opposition to anything with "holistic" in the card name, i guess my main concerns with it are:
-i don't actually gain any CA with it (as compared to my other recursion engines).
-it's a bit more difficult to "back up" (i.e. the witness + witch combo is backed up with pulsemage and genesis).
-since i always hope to lay down all my creatures pretty fast, i'd be worried that i wouldn't have the cards necessary to return what i need.
-I can't get back the cards i exile...i dunno, it seems like a bummer. every card in the deck has some sort of purpose, so i don't like losing that function forever.
on the other hand, i like that i can return counterspells and removal to my hand at instant speed. so it's worth considering. If I find that my current recursion isn't enough I'll try it out.
EDIT: also thinking about adding in kazandu tuskcaller. it just seems like fun.
I'll be adding in tutors and mana once I've gotten the rest of the deck nailed down, but here's what I've got so far, by function:
1 angus mackenzie
deterrents (3)
1 cho-arrim alchemist
1 spurnmage advocate
1 constant mists
counters (12)
1 azorius guildmage
1 ertai, wizard adept
1 forbid
1 counterspell
1 arcane denial
1 dream fracture
1 absorb
1 pact of negation
1 voidslime
1 trickbind
1 memory lapse
1 delay
draw (4)
1 arcanis the omnipotent
1 jushi apprentice
1 surrakar spellblade
1 rhystic study
protection (6)
1 mother of runes
1 devoted caretaker
1 eight-and-a-half-tails
1 sylvan safekeeper
1 lightning greaves
1 leyline of sanctity
recursion engine (4)
1 eternal witness
1 mistmeadow witch
1 pulsemage advocate
1 genesis
removal (15)
1 mangara of corondor
1 nullmage advocate
1 callous oppressor
1 dominating licid
1 intrepid hero
1 rout
1 oblivion stone
1 capsize
1 oblation
1 wipe away
1 swords to plowshares
1 krosan grip
1 bant charm
1 retribution of the meek
1 hallowed burial
1 rootwater thief
1 seedcradle witch
1 seedborn muse
1 lighthouse chronologist
1 rhys the redeemed
1 stonecloaker
1 training grounds
1 vesuvan shapeshifter
accelerants (8)
1 Bloom tender
1 Sakura-tribe scout
1 Skyshroud Ranger
1 weathered wayfarer
1 sol ring
1 mana crypt
1 burgeoning
1 mirari's wake
lands (39)
1 Skycloud expanse
1 Mystic Gate
1 azorius chancery
1 forbidden orchard
1 oboro, palace in the clouds
1 exotic orchard
1 vivid creek
1 mirrodin's core
1 vivid meadow
1 city of brass
1 seaside citadel
1 treva's ruins
1 vivid grove
1 sungrass prairie
1 selesnya sanctuary
1 simic growth chamber
1 glacial fortress
1 adarkar wastes
1 thran quarry
1 kor haven
1 tolaria west
1 eiganjo castle
1 minamo, school at water's edge
1 reliquary tower
1 pendelhaven
1 okina, temple to the grandfathers
1 yavimaya hollow
1 grand coliseum
1 tower of the magistrate
1 flooded grove
1 celestial colonnade
1 forest
3 plains
4 island
the basic theme of the deck is low-cost, high-effect creatures like mistmeadow witch and rhys the redeemed. removal and counters function to disrupt combo. Deterrents and removal function to dissuade attacks and offensive spells. Protection and recursion make sure my stuff stays alive, and that i can recycle my counters and removal and whatnot. draw is mostly high-power stuff so i can rip through my deck pretty quickly and get a large number of cheap, yet potent, creatures on the field.
There are a variety of wincon-ish cards, but for the most part I avoided an obvious combo or "kill spell" or whatever, so that I can't be easily disabled.
the "other" category is sort of large and it's pissing me off.
so yeah, i'm looking for good advice on what i should remove. hmm.
WUB Merieke Ri Berit BUW
GWU Phelddagrif 1 2 3 4 UWG
BR Kaervek the Merciless RB
B Chainer, Dementia Master B
WUB Sen Triplets BUW
BG Sisters of Stone Death GB
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon GRBUW
GWU Angus Mackenzie UWG
R Kumano, Master Yamabushi R
WB Teysa BW
U Higure U
B Geth B
WUBRG Child of Alara 1 2GRBUW
R Zirilan R
U Arcum U
UR Nin RU
BRG Sek'Kuar GRB
U Teferi U
G Melira G
GU Edric UG
BG Glissa GB
Casual
GUB Knacksaw Clique BUG
RWU Sunforger UWR
i always considered going a lifegain route, with protective enchantments like Propaganda and the like, then win with all the white "you win the game" cards like Celestial Convergence / Felidar Sovereign
what's your aim for the deck?
Rootwater Thief is too small both in terms of P/T and its conditional nature. I would consider Jester's Cap. Icatian Priest seems too expensive to be truly effective. Sigil Tracer and Surrakar Spellblade feel like build-around me cards, which might not have the support they need. Leyline of Anticipation always feels like its going to be a tad underwhelming.
Being Aggro
Looking through this deck and re-reading your description, I feel like there is a disconnect between what you say you want and what you're going to get. Angus Mackenzie feels more like a control deck than an aggro deck. I feel like you could get better results from Jenara, Asura of War, Rafiq of the Many or Pheldagriff. That said, he does reduce the ability of your opponents to counter-attack, so it's justifiable.
Moving right along - small, aggressive beaters are the hallmark of an aggro deck, which is on a handicap when playing multiplayer. If you're running small creatures, don't run wraths. Replace them with Armageddon, Stasis-lock, Rising Waters, Winter Orb and Hokori, Dust Drinker.
Your countersuite could be replaced with more bounce or answers to specific permanent types, or with Garruk and both Elspeths (I say that, but the only reason I have any planeswalkers at all is because of duel decks, so take that with a grain of salt).
If you're a fan of the countersuite and wraths, I recommend embracing the control aspect that your deck is leading you towards and run some big critters. Akroma, various sphinxes and angels, etc.
I hope this helps, even if it isn't the quick fix you were looking for.
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yeah, seedborn muse is at the high end of my cmc but it is a pretty effective bomb in combo with most of the rest of the cards. dear god, imagine arcanis or jushi apprentice...yikes. and ertai gets pretty badass too...there's just too many shenannigans not to want to use it.
Lifegain usually bores me, and I'm not really a huge fan of the propaganda line of cards. Angus pretty much throttles most offense, and whatever he doesn't deal with my other deterrents should. Anyway, I don't really want the whole deck to be depending on one of a few cards to win.
EDIT:
I guess to describe my thought process with this deck, it was something like this:
"Man, mistmeadow witch is so freaking cool, it only costs 2 mana but it can seriously screw with the game state. you can protect your dudes from removal, even wraths, negate enemy attacks, remove enemy blockers, save enemy dudes as a favor...it's just bonkers powerful but it only costs 2 mana."
"Hey, now that I think about it, there's a lot of cool creatures like that. spurnmage advocate just costs 1, and who the hell would attack THAT in a multiplayer game? He can waste attackers - even ones not attacking you - and return cards to people's hands to make temporary allies. and since you choose the cards, you can choose the stuff you WANT to get played...like a wrath if the field is too dangerous or whatever. and he just costs ONE!"
"and azorius guildmage, he's sweet too! just 2 mana, and he pretty much wrecks everything. tapdown destroys creatures and counters ruin all sorts of stuff. I'm never disappointed to draw into azorius guildmage, and i've always got the mana to play him!"
"And crikey, mother of runes is one of the all-time greats. In multiplayer, who's going to target the guy's creatures who can counter it with just a tap? No one, they'll target someone else. and besides that, it can be (or make) an invincible blocker, or even help evasion, and all for just 1 mana! That's way more flexible than one-use boring pieces of crap like inkwell leviathan that cost a thousand times more, and yet it's the stupid, expensive beaters that draw tons of table hate that people always run in edh, when there are so many awesome, exciting, flexible creatures down at the bottom of the curve."
So basically, I'm packing all the coolest, cheapest creatures that I can into one deck and hoping to exploit the crap out of them.
hmm, really, not liking rootwater? I mean, it's not about damage, I just want the bugger to neuter combo decks. especially paired with mother of runes or 8.5 it seems like it could get through pretty easily. Anyway, it's there as an aggressive tool to take care of combos and learn what other people's decks are about. I like it more than jester's cap or the like because it can hit multiple people.
icatian priest i like because he's cheap and can be a nifty political trick, but the ability is definitely a bit expensive. i dunno, i might give him a test run at least. for 1 mana he seems like he could be a fairly important force on the table, but on the other hand i hate having to leave a ton of mana open. Actually, now that i think about it seedcradle witch is about 100x better. so yeah, screw him.
sigil tracer i just took out since i don't have enough wizards to make it awesome, and i don't have many spells worth copying either so i'm relying on my enemies for that. surrakar i like and i'm going to give him a test drive. yes, he's not very evasive but i do have some cards that help with that. and anyway he could easily be drawing me a half-dozen cards a turn if left unchecked.
leyline, idk. It seems pretty great for a deck that wants to leave lots of mana open for angus, counters, seedcradle, whatever. I want to at least try it out. vedalken orrery used to be on the "best cards" list and it's a non-leyline version of the same thing. I want to at least give it a try.
anyway, i think you misunderstood my description - this is not an aggro deck, by any means. I'm running cheap creatures because I want to overload the field with powerful control effects as fast as possible, not to win via fast beats. I've never liked playing aggro much, and in multiplayer it's sort of suicidal. the deck is more aggressively control than my phelddagrif deck (which basically used friendliness as its way of avoiding hate...which worked great but was almost TOO easy...people are really freaking gullible...). I think it'll help in 1v1 games too.
So yeah, that's basically the strategy.
oh, and i'm adding training grounds...duh! how did i forget that? =/
WUB Merieke Ri Berit BUW
GWU Phelddagrif 1 2 3 4 UWG
BR Kaervek the Merciless RB
B Chainer, Dementia Master B
WUB Sen Triplets BUW
BG Sisters of Stone Death GB
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon GRBUW
GWU Angus Mackenzie UWG
R Kumano, Master Yamabushi R
WB Teysa BW
U Higure U
B Geth B
WUBRG Child of Alara 1 2GRBUW
R Zirilan R
U Arcum U
UR Nin RU
BRG Sek'Kuar GRB
U Teferi U
G Melira G
GU Edric UG
BG Glissa GB
Casual
GUB Knacksaw Clique BUG
RWU Sunforger UWR
hmm...well, besides my moral opposition to anything with "holistic" in the card name, i guess my main concerns with it are:
-i don't actually gain any CA with it (as compared to my other recursion engines).
-it's a bit more difficult to "back up" (i.e. the witness + witch combo is backed up with pulsemage and genesis).
-since i always hope to lay down all my creatures pretty fast, i'd be worried that i wouldn't have the cards necessary to return what i need.
-I can't get back the cards i exile...i dunno, it seems like a bummer. every card in the deck has some sort of purpose, so i don't like losing that function forever.
on the other hand, i like that i can return counterspells and removal to my hand at instant speed. so it's worth considering. If I find that my current recursion isn't enough I'll try it out.
EDIT: also thinking about adding in kazandu tuskcaller. it just seems like fun.
WUB Merieke Ri Berit BUW
GWU Phelddagrif 1 2 3 4 UWG
BR Kaervek the Merciless RB
B Chainer, Dementia Master B
WUB Sen Triplets BUW
BG Sisters of Stone Death GB
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon GRBUW
GWU Angus Mackenzie UWG
R Kumano, Master Yamabushi R
WB Teysa BW
U Higure U
B Geth B
WUBRG Child of Alara 1 2GRBUW
R Zirilan R
U Arcum U
UR Nin RU
BRG Sek'Kuar GRB
U Teferi U
G Melira G
GU Edric UG
BG Glissa GB
Casual
GUB Knacksaw Clique BUG
RWU Sunforger UWR