I've been wanting to abuse the new Venser Planeswalker ever since I opened my first one so I decided to make the following deck with lots of come into play creature effects.
A few more fun ones are like using the ultimate on a planeswalker or their minus ability a few times and then removing them so they come back with their starting loyalty counters or simply removing a tapped land so it comes back untapped.
So far I've loved the deck for how interactive it can be but the only way that it can win quickly is by general damage. Otherwise a game will just take a long time as you slowly control your opponent into a grave. So many games my strategy is get Jenara out turn 3 and begin controlling from there. Unless I get silly amounts of ramp turns 1 and 2. Like turn 1 Sol Ring into turn 2 Jace, the Mindsculptor.
Wow no comments from anyone yet? I figured this would get some attention but I guess not.
I've been thinking about whether or not I should cut the Reveillark combo since it is just in there as an alternative win condition.
Also one of the creatures I cut that I'm not sure I should have was Riftwing Cloudskate which gave me another re-usable bounce effect.
Cloudstone Curio is something I have yet to put in, but it also seems like it would be really useful.
Oh and there are no doubt some other removal options that I could run such as Condemn, Oblation, Spin into Myth, and then lots of wrath effects but I figured I'd lay off of most of the tuck effects. I mean two (Bant Charm & Hinder) is probably enough in a deck that already has so many control elements.
I like this list - Have you considered running Sterling Grove? Thing's really good, especially considering you're running a survival engine, so you can tutor that out and get your toolbox/combo chain online.
I like this list - Have you considered running Sterling Grove? Thing's really good, especially considering you're running a survival engine, so you can tutor that out and get your toolbox/combo chain online.
Actually I haven't even though I'm sure I skimmed past it while fumbling through all of my cards. While it is a decent enchantment and nice as a backup tutor I personally feel it isn't that necessary for its effect and Idyllic Tutor would probably be better for trying to set up Survival of the Fittest to get the combo going. The combo can take a while to set up sometimes since you need to dump several creatures into the graveyard (and have mana for Reveillark) and depending on your opponent you may need to keep mana open for counter back-up to stop your opponent from answering your combo.
I like the deck. Makes me want to make a bant deck too!
:monocle:*facepalms himself*:facepalm:*applauses you*:tongue: I somehow forgot about him while building this deck. I'm pretty sure he deserves a spot in this particular deck. So I'll have to think about what to cut for a bit....
Also I've been thinking about squeezing in Temporal Spring and maybe Condemn to take out Boomerang and Return to Dust. Trying to lower my curve a bit more and I guess add a notch on the douchebaggery meter for adding Plow Under's little brother and a tuck spell. For that matter I may end up running Plow Under if I want to make the deck even more evil and controlling.
How do you think this deck would work with Rafiq instead of Jenara? I really want to try a Bant deck and can't decide on a general.
Btw, that Gilded Drake + Venser combo is so slick. Very nice find.
Thanks for the congrats on the Venser Drake find.
Sadly in the decks current form I don't think Rafiq would be that great as the general. Jenara is great because she is 1 cheaper to cast and has flying. Also at the end of your opponent's turn you can dump leftover mana into giving her +1/+1 counters.
Biggest problem with this build and using Rafiq is that there are hardly any ways to give him evasiveness (i.e. Trample, Flying, Unblockable, Protection from Creatures, Shadow) in this deck so he can be chump blocked all day long. The odds of Jenara getting chump blocked a lot are limited because the majority of flying token producers aren't used in 1v1. The major one is Bitterblossom and you won't even see that very often. Most decks run very few flying creatures as well and you can usually remove a few of them from Jenara's path.
If you look at my All-in-Rafiq build in my signature you can see that I built very heavily around Rafiq and winning with him quickly. However, if you would like to see a list that utilizes his exalted triggers more like he were just support for the other creatures in your deck then check out this list:
RafiQ-bob: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=197709
Okay so Krosan Verge is something I could indeed put into this deck, but I don't think it is fast enough since it comes into play tapped and requires that I pay mana to use its effect to grab a couple of dual lands. In Multiplayer this card is wonderful but in 1v1 your first 5 turns are pretty crucial that you have open mana and are curving out. That's why the only land I'm running that must come in tapped is Seaside Citadel because it gives me all 3 colors and simply because I'm a big fan of bant colors.
Final Judgment is a little slow for a wrath effect and worse it removes my creatures as well. I think I would prefer that all of my creatures go to the graveyard where I can recur them. If I were to run a 6CC wrath it would be Catastrophe for its versatile option of Armaggedon or Wrath of God, but again I don't because it costs 6. The only reason I run Akroma's Vengeance is because it pretty much wipes the board of nonlands and nonplaneswalkers but it also has the option of being cycled for 3 incase I get it early and don't need it.
Stroke of Genius is a great option especially if you draw it later in the game when you have lots of mana, but unfortunately it is one of the few EDH cards that I have yet to get my hands on (Apologizes in advance for the rant I go on after this). I only play in real life and I've been trying very hard to accumulate the top cards in EDH and granted Stroke of Genius isn't that expensive so I'll probably pick one up next paycheck, but I find it a bit unfair for people to post super-tuned lists running things like Library of Alexandria (not banned in French 1v1), Mishra's Workshop, Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor, Imperial Recruiter, Timetwister, etc even though they usually will never own those cards because they play on MWS or something. That's fine for all of the people who play online and thus don't need to spend any money on the game, but I enjoy seeing the physical cards in front of me and being able to play a game of EDH wherever I go. Granted I can simply proxy the cards but I try not to as I tend to play in local EDH tournaments with these decks and ofcourse proxies aren't allowed unless they're nicely made ones and are simply being used to protect the monetary value of the actual card that you own. Which I'm thinking of making some proxies for a few of the cards that are >$75 in my EDH decks.
Anyways, I went off on a tangent there. Sorry, but I think you missed that Genesis was already in my list.
Mirrari's Wake is something I may want to consider but if I were to include something like that I would probably also include Cloudstone Curio and maybe Erratic Portal as well so I can spend all that extra mana each turn replaying multiple come into play effect creatures.
Primeval Titan was something I did consider for the deck and I just haven't tested it yet. I may try it in the next couple of weeks when I put the deck back together. Sorry I'm very fickle with decks I like to try a different one every week for the local EDH tournament to mix things up and keep my opponents on their toes. Although I try to stay away from decks like Vendilion Clique cause their just no fun for the local players who are still pretty new to the EDH format.
Rite of Replication is also something that I will probably test next time I sleeve up the deck. I would love to play it with kicker on something like Acidic Slime or Sun Titan.
EDH:
Currently Piloting:
Dama, Sage of Stone | Karador, Ghost Chieftan | Sigarda, Host of Herons | Elbrus, the Binding Blade / Withengar Unbound | Grand Arbiter Augustin IV | Genju of the Realm | Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
Sadly in the decks current form I don't think Rafiq would be that great as the general. Jenara is great because she is 1 cheaper to cast and has flying. Also at the end of your opponent's turn you can dump leftover mana into giving her +1/+1 counters.
Biggest problem with this build and using Rafiq is that there are hardly any ways to give him evasiveness (i.e. Trample, Flying, Unblockable, Protection from Creatures, Shadow) in this deck so he can be chump blocked all day long. The odds of Jenara getting chump blocked a lot are limited because the majority of flying token producers aren't used in 1v1. The major one is Bitterblossom and you won't even see that very often. Most decks run very few flying creatures as well and you can usually remove a few of them from Jenara's path.
If you look at my All-in-Rafiq build in my signature you can see that I built very heavily around Rafiq and winning with him quickly. However, if you would like to see a list that utilizes his exalted triggers more like he were just support for the other creatures in your deck then check out this list:
RafiQ-bob: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=197709
Thanks for the info! Betweeen this list, your All-in-Rafiq list, and the RafiQ-bob list, I should be able to put together some sort of respectable Bant deck.
Yea I suppose those cards could be used but I think too many changes would be needed to make Astral Slide worth while. Also I'd rather just have Crucible of Worlds in this deck instead of Life from the Loam. I'm using the regular ban-list for my decks since the LGS that I play at uses it.
Also, id run Voidslime over Mystic Snake. Mystic snake's 2/2 body doesnt make up the difference of Voidslime's utility and 1 less CMC. Sure, Mystic snake is bounce-able... but what are you going to counter when theres nothing on the stack when it comes back in? I realize that you have the crystal shard and are considering the erratic portal though, and that may well make up the difference.
Suggestions for improvement are appreciated.
1 Jenara, Asura of War
Planeswalkers (4)
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Jace the Mind Sculptor
1 Venser, the Sojourner
Creatures (22)
1 Acidic Slime
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Eternal Witness
1 Genesis
1 Gilded Drake
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Karmic Guide
1 Mirror Entity
1 Mulldrifter
1 Mystic Snake
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Reveillark
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Spike Weaver
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sun Titan
1 Trygon Predator
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Wood Elves
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
Instants (14)
1 Bant Charm
1 Boomerang
1 Capsize
1 Counterspell
1 Cryptic Command
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Force of Will
1 Hinder
1 Jace's Ingenuity
1 Krosan Grip
1 Mana Drain
1 Path to Exile
1 Return to Dust
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Aura of Silence
1 Aura Shards
1 Equilibrium
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
1 Treachery
Sorceries (6)
1 Akroma's Veangence
1 Austere Command
1 Bribery
1 Nature's Lore
1 Three Visits
1 Wrath of God
Artifacts (9)
1 Coalition Relic
1 Crystal Shard
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mana Crypt
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Lands (38)
1 Kor Haven
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 City of Brass
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Seaside Citadel
1 Arid Mesa
1 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
1 Flooded Grove
1 Mystic Gate
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Brushland
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Sunpetal Grove
2 Forest (1 unglued and 1 unhinged)
2 Island (1 unglued and 1 unhinged)
2 Plains (1 unglued and 1 unhinged)
Venser, the Sojourner + any of the following:
Treachery (untap 5 lands at the end of your turn [EOYT], I love the option of stealing a new creature and untapping lands)
Venser, Shaper Savant (bounce a permanent at EOYT, which is just funny since its a Venser & Venser tag team)
Gilded Drake (take an opponents creature at EOYT, and this is one of my favorites since you won't control Gildred Drake but you "own" him)
Acidic Slime (blow up 1 of 3 types of permanents at EOYT)
Sun Titan
Eternal Witness
Spike Weaver
Reveillark
Karmic Guide
Coiling Oracle
Wood Elves
A few more fun ones are like using the ultimate on a planeswalker or their minus ability a few times and then removing them so they come back with their starting loyalty counters or simply removing a tapped land so it comes back untapped.
I've been thinking about whether or not I should cut the Reveillark combo since it is just in there as an alternative win condition.
Also one of the creatures I cut that I'm not sure I should have was Riftwing Cloudskate which gave me another re-usable bounce effect.
Cloudstone Curio is something I have yet to put in, but it also seems like it would be really useful.
Oh and there are no doubt some other removal options that I could run such as Condemn, Oblation, Spin into Myth, and then lots of wrath effects but I figured I'd lay off of most of the tuck effects. I mean two (Bant Charm & Hinder) is probably enough in a deck that already has so many control elements.
Actually I haven't even though I'm sure I skimmed past it while fumbling through all of my cards. While it is a decent enchantment and nice as a backup tutor I personally feel it isn't that necessary for its effect and Idyllic Tutor would probably be better for trying to set up Survival of the Fittest to get the combo going. The combo can take a while to set up sometimes since you need to dump several creatures into the graveyard (and have mana for Reveillark) and depending on your opponent you may need to keep mana open for counter back-up to stop your opponent from answering your combo.
I like the deck. Makes me want to make a bant deck too!
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain
:monocle:*facepalms himself*:facepalm:*applauses you*:tongue: I somehow forgot about him while building this deck. I'm pretty sure he deserves a spot in this particular deck. So I'll have to think about what to cut for a bit....
... moments later.
Draining Whelk is getting cut for Mulldrifter. Thanks
Also I've been thinking about squeezing in Temporal Spring and maybe Condemn to take out Boomerang and Return to Dust. Trying to lower my curve a bit more and I guess add a notch on the douchebaggery meter for adding Plow Under's little brother and a tuck spell. For that matter I may end up running Plow Under if I want to make the deck even more evil and controlling.
Btw, that Gilded Drake + Venser combo is so slick. Very nice find.
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Thanks for the congrats on the Venser Drake find.
Sadly in the decks current form I don't think Rafiq would be that great as the general. Jenara is great because she is 1 cheaper to cast and has flying. Also at the end of your opponent's turn you can dump leftover mana into giving her +1/+1 counters.
Biggest problem with this build and using Rafiq is that there are hardly any ways to give him evasiveness (i.e. Trample, Flying, Unblockable, Protection from Creatures, Shadow) in this deck so he can be chump blocked all day long. The odds of Jenara getting chump blocked a lot are limited because the majority of flying token producers aren't used in 1v1. The major one is Bitterblossom and you won't even see that very often. Most decks run very few flying creatures as well and you can usually remove a few of them from Jenara's path.
If you look at my All-in-Rafiq build in my signature you can see that I built very heavily around Rafiq and winning with him quickly. However, if you would like to see a list that utilizes his exalted triggers more like he were just support for the other creatures in your deck then check out this list:
RafiQ-bob:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=197709
One of my all-time favorite tag-teams in any Rafiq deck is Cephalid Constable + Rafiq of the Many.
Okay so Krosan Verge is something I could indeed put into this deck, but I don't think it is fast enough since it comes into play tapped and requires that I pay mana to use its effect to grab a couple of dual lands. In Multiplayer this card is wonderful but in 1v1 your first 5 turns are pretty crucial that you have open mana and are curving out. That's why the only land I'm running that must come in tapped is Seaside Citadel because it gives me all 3 colors and simply because I'm a big fan of bant colors.
Final Judgment is a little slow for a wrath effect and worse it removes my creatures as well. I think I would prefer that all of my creatures go to the graveyard where I can recur them. If I were to run a 6CC wrath it would be Catastrophe for its versatile option of Armaggedon or Wrath of God, but again I don't because it costs 6. The only reason I run Akroma's Vengeance is because it pretty much wipes the board of nonlands and nonplaneswalkers but it also has the option of being cycled for 3 incase I get it early and don't need it.
Stroke of Genius is a great option especially if you draw it later in the game when you have lots of mana, but unfortunately it is one of the few EDH cards that I have yet to get my hands on (Apologizes in advance for the rant I go on after this). I only play in real life and I've been trying very hard to accumulate the top cards in EDH and granted Stroke of Genius isn't that expensive so I'll probably pick one up next paycheck, but I find it a bit unfair for people to post super-tuned lists running things like Library of Alexandria (not banned in French 1v1), Mishra's Workshop, Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor, Imperial Recruiter, Timetwister, etc even though they usually will never own those cards because they play on MWS or something. That's fine for all of the people who play online and thus don't need to spend any money on the game, but I enjoy seeing the physical cards in front of me and being able to play a game of EDH wherever I go. Granted I can simply proxy the cards but I try not to as I tend to play in local EDH tournaments with these decks and ofcourse proxies aren't allowed unless they're nicely made ones and are simply being used to protect the monetary value of the actual card that you own. Which I'm thinking of making some proxies for a few of the cards that are >$75 in my EDH decks.
Anyways, I went off on a tangent there. Sorry, but I think you missed that Genesis was already in my list.
Mirrari's Wake is something I may want to consider but if I were to include something like that I would probably also include Cloudstone Curio and maybe Erratic Portal as well so I can spend all that extra mana each turn replaying multiple come into play effect creatures.
Primeval Titan was something I did consider for the deck and I just haven't tested it yet. I may try it in the next couple of weeks when I put the deck back together. Sorry I'm very fickle with decks I like to try a different one every week for the local EDH tournament to mix things up and keep my opponents on their toes. Although I try to stay away from decks like Vendilion Clique cause their just no fun for the local players who are still pretty new to the EDH format.
Rite of Replication is also something that I will probably test next time I sleeve up the deck. I would love to play it with kicker on something like Acidic Slime or Sun Titan.
Lastly, Voidslime is a great counter but I'm already running a really great package of counter-magic. (i.e. Counterspell, Mana Drain, Bant Charm, Hinder, Mystic Snake, Glen Elendra Archmage, Venser, Shaper Savant, Cryptic Command, and Force of Will) So if I were to put Voidslime in what would you suggest I take out. I mean the more counter-magic I put in the more I detract from my theme of come-into-play-effect creatures.
I changed some stuff around, steered it abit in one direction but i think it has a lot of potential.
Rafiq was great in this deck, not as the general
EDH:
Currently Piloting:
Dama, Sage of Stone | Karador, Ghost Chieftan | Sigarda, Host of Herons | Elbrus, the Binding Blade / Withengar Unbound | Grand Arbiter Augustin IV | Genju of the Realm | Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
Thanks for the info! Betweeen this list, your All-in-Rafiq list, and the RafiQ-bob list, I should be able to put together some sort of respectable Bant deck.
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain
EDH:
UAzamiU
WBTeysa(In construction) WB
Casual:
GSapsG
RGAllinfectRG
BReclaimation ControlB
Yea I suppose those cards could be used but I think too many changes would be needed to make Astral Slide worth while. Also I'd rather just have Crucible of Worlds in this deck instead of Life from the Loam. I'm using the regular ban-list for my decks since the LGS that I play at uses it.
A few cards that I'm considering for the deck Ghostway, Tradewind Rider, and Aether Tradewinds.
A few other alternative bounce spells that could be used Call to Heel, Churning Eddy, Into the Roil, and Erratic Portal.
I may test this deck out again in the next few weeks, but tomorrow I'll be trying out Uril, the Miststalker at the local EDH tournament.
It can also work with Venser for multiplayer games.
EDH:
:symw::symw::symw:Darien:symw::symw::symw:
:symr::symr::symr:Lovisa:symr::symr::symr:
:symu::symw::symg:Rafiq:symu::symw::symg:
:symb::symr::symg:Karrthus:symb::symr::symg:
:symr::symw::symb:Kaalia:symr::symw::symb:
Also, id run Voidslime over Mystic Snake. Mystic snake's 2/2 body doesnt make up the difference of Voidslime's utility and 1 less CMC. Sure, Mystic snake is bounce-able... but what are you going to counter when theres nothing on the stack when it comes back in? I realize that you have the crystal shard and are considering the erratic portal though, and that may well make up the difference.
10.) No taxing cards.
If i wanted to pay 1 more on my Fresh Volunteers, then id just have played Pearled Unicorn.