I’ve been working on this baby for a few months now, and for the most part I consider it to be finished. In all fairness, a Cube is never totally done, as cards will often go in and out, even if only for variety’s sake. All in all however, I don’t expect to do any major overhaul in the foreseeable future, unless I decide to redesign or expand the Cube’s original scope.
I do however, expect to do some modifications, adjusting and balancing here and there. As such I'm open to comments and suggestions, so feel free to let me know.
On to the details…
The Weatherlight Cube - Basic Information:
The peculiarity of this Cube is that it is theme-based. When I started working on it, I considered the possibility of using a limited card pool so as not to be overwhelmed by the options available. The Weatherlight Saga being my golden age of Magic gaming - and a favourite of mine as far as style and storyline went - I decided to focus my Cube on that period. Eventually, I also added the Mirage War to the card pool, as a prelude to the Saga itself. As such, the only cards available for the Cube are cards from those fifteen expansions, from Mirage to Apocalypse. Nothing before, nothing after and nothing from Core Sets.
The idea was to build a solid Cube, but also to bring as much flavor to the gaming experience as possible, using the cards as the storytelling tools.
Obviously, some card choices may seem a little odd and there are some obvious omissions, but that's what you get by using a limited card pool. On the other hand, some cards which you would normally not see in a Cube are allowed here to truly shine.
Basic Info
Cube Size: 360 cards
Breakdown: 50 per Color, 30 Multicolor, 40 Colorless, 40 Lands
Number of Players: 2-6
How Often Drafted?: Once in a while
Card Selection
Powered?: No
Portal?: No
Proxies/Customs?: No
"Un-" Cards?: No
Any "Banned" Cards?: No
Cube Design
Standard or Multiplayer?: Standard
Standard or Theme Cube?: Theme
Limited Card Pool?: Yes
Perfect Creature/Non-Creature Balance?: No
Perfect Gold Balance?: No
Split as Gold?: Yes
Off-Color Kicker/Triggers as Gold?: No, as printed
Perfectly Balanced CMC?: No
This looks incredibly fun. You've managed to take my favorite era in Magic history and turn it into my favorite format in Magic history. That's awesome!
I hate that you have to use the crappy lands that came out of Tempest, though.
I love the idea behind this cube! Tempest/Saga/Masques/Invasion was by far my favorite Magic era since thats when I started playing. Seems difficult to balance this cube though.
I love the idea behind this cube! Tempest/Saga/Masques/Invasion was by far my favorite Magic era since thats when I started playing. Seems difficult to balance this cube though.
It has definitely been challenging... but in a good way. There is obviously more testing to be done, and since the people I usually play with are... well, hum... Let's just say that they're very casual players. They enjoy Cube drafting, but didn't know such a thing existed until I told them about it. Hence, getting a constructive opinion out of them on balance and power ratios and such is... difficult, to say the least.
Now cards!! Well, thanks for the suggestions guys. I probably won't act on some of them, since there's a few I already considered and ended up rejecting. Some however, I really missed and will add to the Cube. I'm currently thinkering about the following changes:
Reins of PowerFrantic Search
Reins is nice in Multiplayer games. One on one, it hasn't been so great. Frantic Search is a card I've been wanting to add since day one but was never able to find room for. Considering that I recently added Buried Alive to the Cube, having an extra discard outlet certainly makes it a valid option.
Copper-Leaf Angel / ManakinCopper Gnomes / Junk Diver
I really don't like the Angel but I always figured that since there was not many flyers during that era and that since it played friendly with Radiant, that it was okay. With Desolation Angel going in however, and with the possiblity of busting not only my own lands but those of my opponent, the beautifully rendered but ultimately lousy Leafed Angel can probably come out. Copper Gnomes and Junk Diver have a nice synergy going on and I like that in a Cube.
Mind StoneMox Diamond
The Mox was on my list for a long time and then I just forgot about it. Mind Stone is a good card, but I don't want to put too much emphasis on acceleration. I like to have Artifacts that gives options to players, not just color/mana fixing. With the Cameos and Ramos' bodyparts lying around, I think I can safely switch the Stone for the Mox.
Dragon Blood / Mercadian LiftGrim Monolith / Temporal Aperture
Again, options. Dragon Blood and the Lift are fun cards, albeit a little slow/weak. Grim Monolith is a nice suggestion, just what the Green witch-doctor ordered. And Temporal Aperture... well I had to play a few rounds with my old Covetous Wildfire deck to remember just how strong this card is. So, in.
I think those are solid changes. To me, cutting Mind Stone is pretty rough, as I really like that card. The one thing I'd do differently is count Desolation Angel as a B/W card instead of just a B card.
I think those are solid changes. To me, cutting Mind Stone is pretty rough, as I really like that card. The one thing I'd do differently is count Desolation Angel as a B/W card instead of just a B card.
Agreed on both accounts. Desolation Angel is gold, and Mind Stone is amazing.
The problem with cards like Coalition Victory and Legacy Weapon is that, although there thematically correct, they don't do much here.
Producing five colors is really hard in this Cube, and I don't want any dead cards. This is one of the reason why I'm a little afraid to put the Legendary Dragons from Invasion back in. I could easily drop these and their Charms and Lairs into the Cube, and remove some of the bad Tempest lands. But even tri-color cards are risky and often end up on the side. I can't image how five color cards would fare.
Agreed on both accounts. Desolation Angel is gold, and Mind Stone is amazing.
The problem is that if I consider Desolation Angel a multicolored card, I should probably do the same for Spectral Lynx. I have two slots open for W/B cards, three if you count Night // Day. I'm not taking anything out from those slots for the Angel. It's okay as a Black card. A five-power flyer for five in this Cube is fine, even if you Armageddon yourself.
Now, Mind Stone... I can see why I should keep it. I guess I could leave Temporal Aperture out. It's great in that old deck I mentioned previously because you're running a bunch of mana Artifacts. In there, the Aperture could read: 'Draw and play an extra card each turn'. In this Cube though, Eidolon232 is probably right: too slow.
Right now, I'm wondering what to do with Black. It's one of the more problematic color to balance here. I drafted yesterday and tried a BR Aggro build and it didn't perform like I hoped. Phyrexian Negator is a long time favorite of mine. I love the flavor of the card. But it was good during an era were most people ran combo decks with very little creatures and burn. Here, it's just too risky. So I'm thinking about slotting him out, and add a two-drop. I just don't know which.
And I'd like to find space for Greven. My Black is lacking in BDBs (Big Dumb Barbarian TM) and Greven is one of the best. I guess I could remove... Plague Spitter? It would free my three-drops a bit and not add too much to Black's overall CMC. I don't know...
i don't have much experience with a lot of those cards but phyrexian negator was way too risky in my cube. about half the time it was a horrible disaster for me when i played it.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
This cube looks so flipping insane. I agree about getting Predator Flagship and Legacy Weapon in the list. If you're worried about the color requirement, add some more fixing like Thawing Glaciers, Tri-Lands, or Vivids.
Tower of the Magistrate doesn't really do a whole lot. I also don't really like cards like Barbed Wire.
This cube looks so flipping insane. I agree about getting Predator Flagship and Legacy Weapon in the list. If you're worried about the color requirement, add some more fixing like Thawing Glaciers, Tri-Lands, or Vivids.
Tower of the Magistrate doesn't really do a whole lot. I also don't really like cards like Barbed Wire.
Very cool idea.
Seems difficult to do seeing as they came waaaay after the weatherlight era ended
Seems difficult to do seeing as they came waaaay after the weatherlight era ended
I understand they're not in flavor, but they're mostly flavorless. If they make for a better draft experience and allow you to play more flavorful cards, then I think they're probably fine. This one seems like it's pretty by the books, so they likely won't slide, but maybe they should?
This one seems like it's pretty by the books, so they likely won't slide, but maybe they should?
Maybe they should, but at this point I'm unwilling to diverge from the Cube's base concept.
The original idea when I started working on this Cube was threefold:
1) Use a limited card pool for the challenge it represented.
2) Build upon a theme so that the gaming experience is both technical and flavorful.
3) Give players the opportunity to use cards they usually don't.
Eventually I may throw all of this out of the window, and build a more 'standard' Cube. But at this point, beyond potentially adding the Vision set to the Cube, as a prelude to the Saga, I'll likely keep the Cube's original template as it is.
Apparently I missed my own memo about being "done" with the Cube and not "undertaking any other major update" in the near future. After posting the initial list on the boards I had the chance to do an inordinate amount of testing and following some comments and suggestions, I figured I should just go into full update mode and make my wallet cry (always a good idea before the holidays :rolleyes:).
So I ended up taking a long hard look at the old pile, removing and adding a bunch of cards in the process. The general idea was to try to streamline the whole drafting and deckbuilding experience, taking away cards which were too passive or reactive and replacing them with cards which were more proactive. Some fringe strategies were abandoned, while others were reinforced and several aspects of the Cube which were overrepresented were toned down, making space for a little more diversity.
The biggest modifications by far however, were in the scope and breath of the Cube itself:
First, I decided to push the cardpool to 450. I liked the idea of having a (somewhat) even number of cards, and there was a few things which I wanted to add to the Cube which didn’t fit into its basic structure. So just adding those cards, without really removing anything else, just made more sense.
Second, I decided to add the Mirage and Visions expansion to the cardpool. On a technical level, the Cube had a few holes in it which couldn’t really be patched by anything being offered in the sets from the Weatherlight Saga. Mirage and Visions both offered decent options to be used in handling these issues as well as providing some classic cards which could definitely be fun to play with. And on a thematic level, the Mirage Wars always felt to me as a sort of prelude to the Weatherlight Saga, introducing important areas and characters which would later be revisited through the various sets of the Saga itself. Numerous quotes from Captain Sisay also seemed to indicate that some of the crew at least were active during this era. Besides, there are only 20 cards or so which have been added from those two sets, so it doesn’t really change the focus of the Cube itself.
Obviously, more testing needs to be done, but all in all it feel pretty good at this point. Strangely enough, the only card I wanted to add and couldn't was Drain Life. For some reason, at the time I ordered the few cards I was missing, there was none to be found online or at my local game store. Weird.
I had the opportunity to Cube a decent amount lately and I tried to do a bit of testing while doing so. Black has long been something of a dark horse in my Cube as balancing the technical and thematical aspect of it has proven to be quite challenging and I wanted to give it another go. Through testing, I found myself unsatisfied with two card slots in particular:
1 cmc: Dark Ritual
I like the Ritual, but I'm wondering if I should keep it in the Cube. I’ve seen it in several lists, but my group usually draft it late or last and it often ends up in the Sideboard. By and large, removal and utility is preferred to it. I was thinking about replacing it with Phyrexian Reclamation. It’s splashable, reusable and works well with several of the creatures with EtB effect found in the Cube which frequently have Echo.
2 cmc: Grave/Justice
I’ve tried both Shallow Grave and Urborg Justice in the last 2 cmc spot and I haven’t been satisfied with either of them. They’re too reactive for my taste and often end up doing less than they should. Festering Wound has come to mind as a potential candidate for this slot. Not the usual suspect, I know. It is very thematic however and does something which cannot be found elsewhere in the Cube. It’s also en enchantment, which plays nicely with things like Rayne, Serra's Sanctum and Thran Golem.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
...
As a side note, after building and playing with a themed Cube for several months now, I would recommend other players to try it out. It’s not for everybody obviously, but it’s proven to be quite fun. The extra focus on story and style does add quite a bit to the drafting experience. Just a few weeks ago, a player was able to build a Volrath deck, with Volrath the Fallen, Greven, the Stronghold, the Predator and with things like Diabolic Edict and Fevered Convulsions. It was pretty sweet.
Definitely a place for vorthos to hang their hats.
This looks awesome, how I have missed this? I haven't played Magic in this specific era so I can't even get the same feel of it. Has there been any changes/progress in the list?
The list in OP should be up to date. I haven't done a whole lot of changes lately. It's probably not optimal on a technical level because there are some pet cards and pet cycles which I like to have in the Cube for various reasons, and obviously there are some cards which are included because they are thematically resonant more than anything else (some of the Legends comes to mind).
There are a few cards I've been tinkering with though. Dark Hatchling may come out, mostly because of it's cost and possibly Flicker which may be a little too narrow. Otherwise I've been thinking about adding the 2 cmc on-color Slivers from Tempest. The multi-colored Slivers from Stronghold are already in there, but since the little critters are so iconic to the Rath Cycle, I though about giving them a brighter spotlight. I just don't know if it's worth it, considering the poor mana fixing of that era and the fact that it's 10 cards out of 450. It might be hard for a player to really get value out of them. I might actually remove the whole of them and just add back the multi-colored hate Bears from Invasion (Galina's Knight and crew).
But other than that, I don't expect to modify the Cube a whole lot at this point. One of the perks of using a limited cardpool is that you can say 'Done!', even with new Blocks and Sets coming out. Once in a while though, I get an itch to add the Odyssey and Onslaught blocks and make it an old-school Dominaria's Cube instead. It would be pretty easy considering that I have a ton of cards from those Blocks and adding what I'd want to the Cube wouldn't cost me a whole lot. But I like the fact that it's the Weatherlight Cube and not the something-else Cube. It gives it a kind of... identity. Time will tell.
(...) add back the multi-colored hate Bears from Invasion (Galina's Knight and crew).
Thing is, these guys are pretty unexciting. And so I've been looking at what else is being offered for those colors from that period. I've got a few preferences, but I'd like to know what the cube-sters around here think. Here are the options I've been ~blah blah blah~...
Edit: Well, I should have known I wouldn't be able to simply change a few cards... not with me being on vacation and suddenly having too much free time on my hands. Eh. I actually ended-up updating the whole thing. So here's The Weatherlight Cube v.4, now with more cards, a better mana curve for all colors and even more thematic goodies.
Main changes are probably the removal of some of the bigger creatures, including the legendary dragons from Invasion. With those also went the charms and lairs. While the dragons and charms are great cards thematically speaking, they are usually just too hard to cast considering the fixing available during that time period. I also finally got rid of one of the last cycle in the Cube: the 'Embrace' auras from Urza's Saga. Thran Golem went with those, as there is now simply not enough auras available to make it work.
On the upside, I completely reworked the multicolor and artifact sections, adding amongst other things the Medallions from Tempest. The mana curve for all colors was also tweaked a bit.
As always, comments and suggestions are welcome. Cheers!
I would love to draft this someday. The Weatherlight arc has always been my favorite (I have all of the books) and this Cube looks like a blast to play.
Awesome job putting something like this together.
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My Black & Silver Cube [360/Peasant/Draft It! EDH Decks: - Reya Dawnbringer // - Mistform Ultimus // - Balthor the Defiled // - Urabrask the Hidden // - Mirri, Cat Warrior
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I do however, expect to do some modifications, adjusting and balancing here and there. As such I'm open to comments and suggestions, so feel free to let me know.
On to the details…
The Weatherlight Cube - Basic Information:
The peculiarity of this Cube is that it is theme-based. When I started working on it, I considered the possibility of using a limited card pool so as not to be overwhelmed by the options available. The Weatherlight Saga being my golden age of Magic gaming - and a favourite of mine as far as style and storyline went - I decided to focus my Cube on that period. Eventually, I also added the Mirage War to the card pool, as a prelude to the Saga itself. As such, the only cards available for the Cube are cards from those fifteen expansions, from Mirage to Apocalypse. Nothing before, nothing after and nothing from Core Sets.
The idea was to build a solid Cube, but also to bring as much flavor to the gaming experience as possible, using the cards as the storytelling tools.
Obviously, some card choices may seem a little odd and there are some obvious omissions, but that's what you get by using a limited card pool. On the other hand, some cards which you would normally not see in a Cube are allowed here to truly shine.
Basic Info
Cube Size: 360 cards
Breakdown: 50 per Color, 30 Multicolor, 40 Colorless, 40 Lands
Number of Players: 2-6
How Often Drafted?: Once in a while
Card Selection
Powered?: No
Portal?: No
Proxies/Customs?: No
"Un-" Cards?: No
Any "Banned" Cards?: No
Cube Design
Standard or Multiplayer?: Standard
Standard or Theme Cube?: Theme
Limited Card Pool?: Yes
Perfect Creature/Non-Creature Balance?: No
Perfect Gold Balance?: No
Split as Gold?: Yes
Off-Color Kicker/Triggers as Gold?: No, as printed
Perfectly Balanced CMC?: No
The Weatherlight Cube - Card Choices:
:symw::symw: White :symw::symw:
1 Infantry Veteran
1 Mother of Runes
1 Soul Warden
1 Sunscape Apprentice
//2cmc:
1 Angelic Page
1 Benalish Trapper
1 Degavolver
1 Longbow Archer
1 Master Decoy
1 Soltari Emissary
1 Soltari Monk
1 Soltari Priest
1 Spectral Lynx
1 Youthful Knight
1 Benalish Knight
1 Chieftain En-Dal
1 Knight of Dawn
1 Orim, Samite Healer
1 Paladin En-Vec
1 Soltari Champion
1 Soltari Crusader
1 Sunscape Battlemage
//4cmc:
1 Academy Rector
1 Cho-Manno, Revolutionary
1 Radiant's Dragoons
1 Voice of All
1 Gerrard Capashen
1 Karmic Guide
1 Radiant, Archangel
//6cmc:
1 Elite Archers
//7cmc:
1 Serra Avatar
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Gerrard's Battle Cry
1 Orim's Chant
1 Tithe
//2cmc:
1 Disenchant
1 Humble
1 Last Breath
1 Pacifism
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Afterlife
1 Arrest
1 Crackdown
1 Glorious Anthem
1 Sacred Mesa
//4cmc:
1 Cataclysm
1 Worship
1 Miraculous Recovery
1 Rout
//6cmc:
1 Catastrophe
:symu::symu: Blue :symu::symu:
1 Stormscape Apprentice
//2cmc:
1 Cetavolver
1 Gilded Drake
1 Merfolk Looter
1 Waterfront Bouncer
//3cmc:
1 Barrin, Master Wizard
1 Ertai, Wizard Adept
1 Fleeting Image
1 Man-O'-War
1 Rayne, Academy Chancellor
1 Stormscape Battlemage
1 Rainbow Efreet
1 Thieving Magpie
1 Tradewind Rider
//5cmc:
1 Mawcor
1 Morphling
//6cmc:
1 Ephemeron
1 Palinchron
1 Brainstorm
1 Mana Chains
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Power Sink
1 Whispers of the Muse
//2cmc:
1 Counterspell
1 Impulse
1 Jilt
1 Legacy's Allure
1 Mana Leak
1 Memory Lapse
1 Snap
1 Trade Routes
1 Withdraw
1 Capsize
1 Equilibrium
1 Exclude
1 Forbid
1 Repulse
1 Tinker
//4cmc:
1 Dismiss
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Opposition
1 Rewind
1 Sift
1 Bribery
1 Time Warp
1 Treachery
//6cmc:
1 Confiscate
1 Opportunity
1 Time Spiral
//Lands:
1 Faerie Conclave
:symb::symb: Black :symb::symb:
1 Carnophage
1 Nightscape Apprentice
//2cmc:
1 Dauthi Horror
1 Dauthi Slayer
1 Foul Imp
1 Skittering Skirge
//3cmc:
1 Bone Shredder
1 Coffin Queen
1 Dauthi Mercenary
1 Necravolver
1 Nightscape Battlemage
1 Sanguine Guard
1 Stronghold Assassin
1 Body Snatcher
1 Nekrataal
1 Order of Yawgmoth
1 Phyrexian Scuta
//5cmc:
1 Phyrexian Plaguelord
1 Purraj of Urborg
1 Thrashing Wumpus
1 Ascendant Evincar
1 Commander Greven Il-Vec
1 Volrath the Fallen
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Reanimate
1 Sarcomancy
1 Tortured Existence
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Vendetta
//2cmc:
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Do or Die
1 Exhume
1 Fevered Convulsions
1 Vicious Hunger
1 Corpse Dance
1 Dark Banishing
1 Expunge
1 Necromancy
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Stupor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
//4cmc:
1 Diabolic Servitude
1 Persecute
1 Slaughter
1 Snuff Out
1 Dregs of Sorrow
1 Living Death
//6cmc:
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
:symr::symr: Red :symr::symr:
1 Goblin Patrol
1 Jackal Pup
1 Kris Mage
1 Mogg Conscripts
1 Mogg Fanatic
1 Thunderscape Apprentice
//2cmc:
1 Fireslinger
1 Goblin Raider
1 Mogg Flunkies
1 Mogg Maniac
1 Molten Hydra
1 Veteran Brawlers
1 Arc Mage
1 Ghitu Fire-Eater
1 Ghitu Slinger
1 Keldon Vandals
1 Rakavolver
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Starke of Rath
1 Thunderscape Battlemage
//4cmc:
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Keldon Champion
1 Lightning Dragon
1 Skizzik
1 Keldon Firebombers
1 Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
//6cmc:
1 Crater Hellion
1 Two-Headed Dragon
//7cmc:
1 Shivan Hellkite
1 Ghitu Fire
1 Seal of Fire
1 Shock
//2cmc:
1 Fault Line
1 Incinerate
1 Rolling Thunder
1 Sonic Burst
1 Tectonic Break
1 Arc Lightning
1 Hammer of Bogardan
1 Repercussion
1 Rivalry
1 Urza's Rage
//4cmc:
1 Aftershock
1 Flameshot
1 Sneak Attack
1 Cave-In
1 Jagged Lightning
//6cmc:
1 Fireblast
//7cmc:
1 Flame Wave
:symg::symg: Green :symg::symg:
1 Pouncing Jaguar
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Thornscape Apprentice
1 Wild Dogs
//2cmc:
1 Albino Troll
1 Blurred Mongoose
1 Kavu Titan
1 Quirion Dryad
1 Quirion Elves
1 River Boa
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Utopia Tree
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Wall of Roots
1 Cradle Guard
1 Mirri, Cat Warrior
1 Simian Grunts
1 Thornscape Battlemage
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Wood Elves
1 Yavimaya Elder
//4cmc:
1 Anavolver
1 Blastoderm
1 Squirrel Wrangler
1 Vine Dryad
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Thicket Elemental
1 Weatherseed Treefolk
//6cmc:
1 Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
1 Rhox
//7cmc:
1 Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
1 Thorn Elemental
//8cmc:
1 Verdant Force
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Rancor
1 Worldly Tutor
//2cmc:
1 Fertile Ground
1 Rampant Growth
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Fallow Earth
1 Harrow
1 Primal Growth
//4cmc:
1 Creeping Mold
1 Defense of the Heart
1 Natural Order
1 Pattern of Rebirth
1 Overrun
1 Plow Under
//6cmc:
1 Desert Twister
//Lands:
1 Treetop Village
:symwg::symrb: Multicolor :symrb::symwg:
1 Absorb
1 Hanna, Ship's Navigator
1 Teferi's Moat
U/B:
1 Barrin's Spite
1 Recoil
1 Undermine
B/R:
1 Blazing Specter
1 Terminate
1 Tsabo Tavoc
R/G:
1 Fires of Yavimaya
1 Hull Breach
1 Simoon
1 Asmira, Holy Avenger
1 Captain Sisay
1 Eladamri's Call
W/B:
1 Selenia, Dark Angel
1 Vindicate
U/R:
1 Fire // Ice
1 Prophetic Bolt
B/G:
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Spiritmonger
R/W:
1 Goblin Legionnaire
1 Goblin Trenches
1 Mystic Snake
1 Temporal Spring
B/G/W:
1 Overgrown Estate
R/W/U:
1 Lightning Angel
G/U/B:
1 Fungal Shambler
W/U/B/R/G:
1 Sliver Queen
Others:
1 Legacy Weapon
:xmana::ymana: Colorless :ymana::xmana:
1 Copper Gnomes
1 Flowstone Sculpture
1 Junk Diver
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Manakin
1 Mantis Engine
1 Masticore
1 Metalworker
1 Mindless Automaton
1 Phyrexian Colossus
1 Phyrexian Hulk
1 Serrated Biskelion
1 Teeka's Dragon
1 Thopter Squadron
1 Thran War Machine
1 Cursed Scroll
1 Drake-Skull Cameo
1 Erratic Portal
1 Grafted Skullcap
1 Grim Monoloth
1 Helm of Possession
1 Lotus Blossom
1 Memory Jar
1 Mind Stone
1 Mox Diamond
1 Phyrexian Lens
1 Phyrexian Processor
1 Powder Keg
1 Power Matrix
1 Predator, Flagship
1 Puppet Strings
1 Ring of Gix
1 Scroll Rack
1 Seashell Cameo
1 Skyship Weatherlight
1 Tangle Wire
1 Tigereye Cameo
1 Troll-Horn Cameo
:symtap::symq: Lands :symq::symtap:
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Caldera Lake
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Coastal Tower
1 Dust Bowl
1 Eflhame Palace
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Gemstone Mine
1 High Market
1 Keldon Necropolis
1 Kor Haven
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Lotus Vale
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Pine Barrens
1 Rath's Edge
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Rishadan Port
1 Salt Flats
1 Salt Marsh
1 Scabland
1 Scorched Ruins
1 Serra's Sanctum
1 Shivan Gorge
1 Shivan Oasis
1 Shivan Reef
1 Skyshroud Forest
1 Teferi's Isle
1 Terminal Moraine
1 Thran Quarry
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Urborg Volcano
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Wasteland
1 Winding Canyons
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Yavimaya Hollow
Cheers!
I hate that you have to use the crappy lands that came out of Tempest, though.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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It might be a little janky, but Coalition Victory is also a thought. How sweet would it be to win with the entire crew in play?
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I think that would quite possibly be the best win ever.
EDH Decks:
- Reya Dawnbringer // - Mistform Ultimus // - Balthor the Defiled // - Urabrask the Hidden // - Mirri, Cat Warrior
I agree; also consider adding missing parts of the Legacy, such as Null Rod.
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It has definitely been challenging... but in a good way. There is obviously more testing to be done, and since the people I usually play with are... well, hum... Let's just say that they're very casual players. They enjoy Cube drafting, but didn't know such a thing existed until I told them about it. Hence, getting a constructive opinion out of them on balance and power ratios and such is... difficult, to say the least.
Now cards!! Well, thanks for the suggestions guys. I probably won't act on some of them, since there's a few I already considered and ended up rejecting. Some however, I really missed and will add to the Cube. I'm currently thinkering about the following changes:
Reins of Power Frantic Search
Reins is nice in Multiplayer games. One on one, it hasn't been so great. Frantic Search is a card I've been wanting to add since day one but was never able to find room for. Considering that I recently added Buried Alive to the Cube, having an extra discard outlet certainly makes it a valid option.
Plague Dogs Desolation Angel
I like the Dog, but... yah. Completely missed that one.
Copper-Leaf Angel / Manakin Copper Gnomes / Junk Diver
I really don't like the Angel but I always figured that since there was not many flyers during that era and that since it played friendly with Radiant, that it was okay. With Desolation Angel going in however, and with the possiblity of busting not only my own lands but those of my opponent, the beautifully rendered but ultimately lousy Leafed Angel can probably come out. Copper Gnomes and Junk Diver have a nice synergy going on and I like that in a Cube.
Mind Stone Mox Diamond
The Mox was on my list for a long time and then I just forgot about it. Mind Stone is a good card, but I don't want to put too much emphasis on acceleration. I like to have Artifacts that gives options to players, not just color/mana fixing. With the Cameos and Ramos' bodyparts lying around, I think I can safely switch the Stone for the Mox.
Dragon Blood / Mercadian Lift Grim Monolith / Temporal Aperture
Again, options. Dragon Blood and the Lift are fun cards, albeit a little slow/weak. Grim Monolith is a nice suggestion, just what the Green witch-doctor ordered. And Temporal Aperture... well I had to play a few rounds with my old Covetous Wildfire deck to remember just how strong this card is. So, in.
What do you think?
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Agreed on both accounts. Desolation Angel is gold, and Mind Stone is amazing.
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Producing five colors is really hard in this Cube, and I don't want any dead cards. This is one of the reason why I'm a little afraid to put the Legendary Dragons from Invasion back in. I could easily drop these and their Charms and Lairs into the Cube, and remove some of the bad Tempest lands. But even tri-color cards are risky and often end up on the side. I can't image how five color cards would fare.
Crovax is in, but as the Ascendant Evincar. Mechanically, I prefer the later to the former. Besides, Selenia is there as a nod to the old Crovax.
The problem is that if I consider Desolation Angel a multicolored card, I should probably do the same for Spectral Lynx. I have two slots open for W/B cards, three if you count Night // Day. I'm not taking anything out from those slots for the Angel. It's okay as a Black card. A five-power flyer for five in this Cube is fine, even if you Armageddon yourself.
Now, Mind Stone... I can see why I should keep it. I guess I could leave Temporal Aperture out. It's great in that old deck I mentioned previously because you're running a bunch of mana Artifacts. In there, the Aperture could read: 'Draw and play an extra card each turn'. In this Cube though, Eidolon232 is probably right: too slow.
Right now, I'm wondering what to do with Black. It's one of the more problematic color to balance here. I drafted yesterday and tried a BR Aggro build and it didn't perform like I hoped. Phyrexian Negator is a long time favorite of mine. I love the flavor of the card. But it was good during an era were most people ran combo decks with very little creatures and burn. Here, it's just too risky. So I'm thinking about slotting him out, and add a two-drop. I just don't know which.
Flesh Reaver, Foul Imp and Nakaya Shade are solid aggro options. There's Ravenous Rats if I want to add to Black's discard, and Silent Assassin, which can be used as both a beater and a remover.
And I'd like to find space for Greven. My Black is lacking in BDBs (Big Dumb Barbarian TM) and Greven is one of the best. I guess I could remove... Plague Spitter? It would free my three-drops a bit and not add too much to Black's overall CMC. I don't know...
Tower of the Magistrate doesn't really do a whole lot. I also don't really like cards like Barbed Wire.
Very cool idea.
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Seems difficult to do seeing as they came waaaay after the weatherlight era ended
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Maybe they should, but at this point I'm unwilling to diverge from the Cube's base concept.
The original idea when I started working on this Cube was threefold:
1) Use a limited card pool for the challenge it represented.
2) Build upon a theme so that the gaming experience is both technical and flavorful.
3) Give players the opportunity to use cards they usually don't.
Eventually I may throw all of this out of the window, and build a more 'standard' Cube. But at this point, beyond potentially adding the Vision set to the Cube, as a prelude to the Saga, I'll likely keep the Cube's original template as it is.
Nonetheless, thank you for your suggestions.
So I ended up taking a long hard look at the old pile, removing and adding a bunch of cards in the process. The general idea was to try to streamline the whole drafting and deckbuilding experience, taking away cards which were too passive or reactive and replacing them with cards which were more proactive. Some fringe strategies were abandoned, while others were reinforced and several aspects of the Cube which were overrepresented were toned down, making space for a little more diversity.
The biggest modifications by far however, were in the scope and breath of the Cube itself:
First, I decided to push the cardpool to 450. I liked the idea of having a (somewhat) even number of cards, and there was a few things which I wanted to add to the Cube which didn’t fit into its basic structure. So just adding those cards, without really removing anything else, just made more sense.
Second, I decided to add the Mirage and Visions expansion to the cardpool. On a technical level, the Cube had a few holes in it which couldn’t really be patched by anything being offered in the sets from the Weatherlight Saga. Mirage and Visions both offered decent options to be used in handling these issues as well as providing some classic cards which could definitely be fun to play with. And on a thematic level, the Mirage Wars always felt to me as a sort of prelude to the Weatherlight Saga, introducing important areas and characters which would later be revisited through the various sets of the Saga itself. Numerous quotes from Captain Sisay also seemed to indicate that some of the crew at least were active during this era. Besides, there are only 20 cards or so which have been added from those two sets, so it doesn’t really change the focus of the Cube itself.
The exact change log is as follow:
1 False Prophet
1 Intrepid Hero
1 Wall of Essence
1 Wall of Nets
1 Crackdown
1 Planar Collapse
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Smite
1 Story Circle
1 Diving Griffin
1 Longbow Archer
1 Radiant's Dragoons
1 Soul Sculptor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Flicker
1 Last Breath
1 Miraculous Recovery
1 Tithe
1 Fleeting Image
1 Overtaker
1 Somnophore
1 Wall of Tears
1 Disrupt
1 Equilibrium
1 Evacuation
1 Miscalculation
1 Reins of Power
1 Seal of Removal
1 Trade Routes
1 Man-O'-War
1 Merfolk Traders
1 Rainbow Efreet
1 Waterfront Bouncer
1 Zephid
1 Desertion
1 Flash
1 Frantic Search
1 Impulse
1 Mind Games
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Phyrexian Negator
1 Plague Dogs
1 Plague Spitter
1 Wall of Souls
1 Death Stroke
1 Dregs of Sorrow
1 No Mercy
1 Pestilence
1 Seal of Doom
1 Unearth
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Desolation Angel
1 Foul Imp
1 Hidden Horror
1 Nekrataal
1 Skittering Horror
1 Living Death
1 Necromancy
1 Shallow Grave
1 Urborg Justice
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Agenda
1 Flowstone Overseer
1 Goblin War Buggy
1 Ravenous Baboons
1 Seismic Mage
1 Wall of Razors
1 Fling
1 Lightning Blast
1 Scorched Earth
1 Scrap
1 Seal of Fire
1 Sonic Burst
1 Stone Rain
1 Desolation Giant
1 Lava Runner
1 Mogg Maniac
1 Shard Phoenix
1 Viashino Cutthroat
1 Viashino Sandscout
1 Flameshot
1 Flame Wave
1 Gamble
1 Hammer of Bogardan
1 Relentless Assault
1 Repercussion
1 Skyshroud Behemoth
1 Wall of Blossom
1 Fertile Ground
1 Lay of the Land
1 Might of Oaks
1 Natural Affinity
1 Restock
1 Seal of Strength
1 Vine Trellis
1 Briar Shield
1 Call of the Wild
1 Gaea's Blessing
1 Natural Order
1 Plow Under
1 Saproling Burst
1 Waiting in the Weeds
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Llanowar Knight
1 Minotaur Illusionist
1 Shivan Zombie
1 Vodalian Zombie
1 Yavimaya Barbarian
1 Crystalline Sliver
1 Crosis, the Purger
1 Darigaaz, the Igniter
1 Dracoplasm
1 Dromar, the Banisher
1 Hibernation Sliver
1 Rith, the Awakener
1 Spined Sliver
1 Treva, the Renewer
1 Victual Sliver
1 Crosis's Charm
1 Darigaaz's Charm
1 Dromar's Charm
1 Rith's Charm
1 Treva's Charm
1 Manakin
1 Shifting Wall
1 Tek
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Mercadian Lift
1 Monkey Cage
1 Junk Diver
1 Serrated Biskellion
1 Teeka's Dragon
1 Legacy Weapon
1 Magistrate's Scepter
1 Mox Diamond
1 Henge of Ramos
1 Mogg Hollows
1 Rhystic Cave
1 Rootwater Depths
1 Stalking Stones
1 Thalakos Lowlands
1 Vec Township
1 Darigaaz's Caldera
1 Dromar's Cavern
1 High Market
1 Rith's Grove
1 Teferi's Isle
1 Treva's Ruins
1 Undiscovered Paradise
Obviously, more testing needs to be done, but all in all it feel pretty good at this point. Strangely enough, the only card I wanted to add and couldn't was Drain Life. For some reason, at the time I ordered the few cards I was missing, there was none to be found online or at my local game store. Weird.
1 cmc: Dark Ritual
I like the Ritual, but I'm wondering if I should keep it in the Cube. I’ve seen it in several lists, but my group usually draft it late or last and it often ends up in the Sideboard. By and large, removal and utility is preferred to it. I was thinking about replacing it with Phyrexian Reclamation. It’s splashable, reusable and works well with several of the creatures with EtB effect found in the Cube which frequently have Echo.
2 cmc: Grave/Justice
I’ve tried both Shallow Grave and Urborg Justice in the last 2 cmc spot and I haven’t been satisfied with either of them. They’re too reactive for my taste and often end up doing less than they should. Festering Wound has come to mind as a potential candidate for this slot. Not the usual suspect, I know. It is very thematic however and does something which cannot be found elsewhere in the Cube. It’s also en enchantment, which plays nicely with things like Rayne, Serra's Sanctum and Thran Golem.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
...
As a side note, after building and playing with a themed Cube for several months now, I would recommend other players to try it out. It’s not for everybody obviously, but it’s proven to be quite fun. The extra focus on story and style does add quite a bit to the drafting experience. Just a few weeks ago, a player was able to build a Volrath deck, with Volrath the Fallen, Greven, the Stronghold, the Predator and with things like Diabolic Edict and Fevered Convulsions. It was pretty sweet.
Definitely a place for vorthos to hang their hats.
The list in OP should be up to date. I haven't done a whole lot of changes lately. It's probably not optimal on a technical level because there are some pet cards and pet cycles which I like to have in the Cube for various reasons, and obviously there are some cards which are included because they are thematically resonant more than anything else (some of the Legends comes to mind).
There are a few cards I've been tinkering with though. Dark Hatchling may come out, mostly because of it's cost and possibly Flicker which may be a little too narrow. Otherwise I've been thinking about adding the 2 cmc on-color Slivers from Tempest. The multi-colored Slivers from Stronghold are already in there, but since the little critters are so iconic to the Rath Cycle, I though about giving them a brighter spotlight. I just don't know if it's worth it, considering the poor mana fixing of that era and the fact that it's 10 cards out of 450. It might be hard for a player to really get value out of them. I might actually remove the whole of them and just add back the multi-colored hate Bears from Invasion (Galina's Knight and crew).
But other than that, I don't expect to modify the Cube a whole lot at this point. One of the perks of using a limited cardpool is that you can say 'Done!', even with new Blocks and Sets coming out. Once in a while though, I get an itch to add the Odyssey and Onslaught blocks and make it an old-school Dominaria's Cube instead. It would be pretty easy considering that I have a ton of cards from those Blocks and adding what I'd want to the Cube wouldn't cost me a whole lot. But I like the fact that it's the Weatherlight Cube and not the something-else Cube. It gives it a kind of... identity. Time will tell.
Thing is, these guys are pretty unexciting. And so I've been looking at what else is being offered for those colors from that period. I've got a few preferences, but I'd like to know what the cube-sters around here think. Here are the options I've been ~blah blah blah~...
Edit: Well, I should have known I wouldn't be able to simply change a few cards... not with me being on vacation and suddenly having too much free time on my hands. Eh. I actually ended-up updating the whole thing. So here's The Weatherlight Cube v.4, now with more cards, a better mana curve for all colors and even more thematic goodies.
1 Master Healer
1 Oracle's Attendants
1 Soul Sculptor
1 Youthful Knight
1 Flicker
1 Serra's Embrace
1 Blinding Angel
1 Infantry Veteran
1 Peacekeeper
1 Tethered Griffin
1 Warrior En-Kor
1 Limited Resources
1 Pegasus Refuge
1 Pegasus Stampede
1 Sacred Mesa
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Worship
1 Merfolk Traders
1 Opt
1 Show and Tell
1 Zephid's Embrace
1 Fleeting Image
1 Somnophore
1 Wind Dancer
1 Confound
1 Equilibrium
1 Mana Chains
1 Memory Lapse
1 Prosperity
1 Trade Routes
1 Unmask
1 Vampiric Embrace
1 Victimize
1 Lurking Skirge
1 Reprocess
1 Stupor
1 Tortured Existence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Viashino Cutthroat
1 Viashino Sandscout
1 Shiv's Embrace
1 Thunderbolt
1 Dwarven Miner
1 Keldon Firebombers
1 Kris Mage
1 Orcish Settlers
1 Veteran Brawlers
1 Incinerate
1 Kaervek's Torch
1 Shatter
1 Sonic Burst
1 Silverglade Elemental
1 Thorn Elemental
1 Vine Trellis
1 Gaea's Blessing
1 Gaea's Embrace
1 Land Grant
1 Saproling Burst
1 Mtenda Lion
1 Quirion Ranger
1 River Boa
1 Squirrel Wrangler
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Wall of Roots
1 Earthcraft
1 Lay of the Land
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Oath of Druids
1 Primal Growth
1 Revive
1 Darigaaz, the Igniter
1 Dracoplasm
1 Dromar, the Banisher
1 Galina's Knight
1 Llanowar Knight
1 Rith, the Awakener
1 Shivan Zombie
1 Treva, the Renewer
1 Vodalian Zombie
1 Yavimaya Barbarian
1 Darigaaz's Charm
1 Dromar's Charm
1 Rith's Charm
1 Smoldering Tar
1 Treva's Charm
1 Lightning Angel
1 Pyre Zombie
1 Razorfin Hunter
1 Soltari Guerrillas
1 Vhati Il-Dal
1 Aura Mutation
1 Fervent Charge
1 Gerrard's Verdict
1 Guided Passage
1 Overgrown Estate
1 Recoil
1 Suffocating Blast
1 Teferi's Moat
1 Temporal Spring
1 Void
1 Thran Golem
1 Thran War Machine
1 Chimeric Staff
1 Mercadian Atlas
1 Mishra's Helix
1 Metalworker
1 Phyrexian Hulk
1 Rackling
1 Serrated Biskelion
1 Tek
1 Viseling
1 Wall of Junk
1 Emerald Medallion
1 Grafted Skullcap
1 Jet Medallion
1 Pearl Medallion
1 Ruby Medallion
1 Sapphire Medallion
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Darigaaz's Caldera
1 Dromar's Cavern
1 Rith's Grove
1 Treva's Ruins
1 Flood Plain
1 Grasslands
1 Mountain Valley
1 Rocky Tar Pit
Main changes are probably the removal of some of the bigger creatures, including the legendary dragons from Invasion. With those also went the charms and lairs. While the dragons and charms are great cards thematically speaking, they are usually just too hard to cast considering the fixing available during that time period. I also finally got rid of one of the last cycle in the Cube: the 'Embrace' auras from Urza's Saga. Thran Golem went with those, as there is now simply not enough auras available to make it work.
On the upside, I completely reworked the multicolor and artifact sections, adding amongst other things the Medallions from Tempest. The mana curve for all colors was also tweaked a bit.
As always, comments and suggestions are welcome. Cheers!
THIS IS SO AWESOME.
180 Winston Dueling Cube!
Antiquities War-themed Artifact Cube!
Thank you.
Do you have your Cube posted online? A "Brother's War" Cube? I'd be curious to see that.
Awesome job putting something like this together.
EDH Decks:
- Reya Dawnbringer // - Mistform Ultimus // - Balthor the Defiled // - Urabrask the Hidden // - Mirri, Cat Warrior