I'm new to the EDH/Commander format. To be honest, I haven't even played a game yet! Of course to play a game you need to have a deck so I pulled this together from my massive card pool to give the format a try.
The plan is to win by turning men, which seems like a departure from the combo oriented Intet decks I've seen posted all over. I don't find going infinite combos satisfying, so I'm avoiding that.
That being said there is one "infinite" combo in here with Bear's Umbra and Aggravated Assault. I feel ok with the because it fits nicely with the "attack to win" plan, and it gives the other players a chance to block their way out of the jam. Also, it's a pretty frail combo (but, of course, not the only way to win).
Also a question: If I target an indestructible artifact with Hoard-Smelter Dragon's ability (for instance, my own Darksteel ingot) I believe he would get +3/+0 and not destroy anything. Correct?
Indeed, fiery armpit dragon gets the bonus as long as the ability resolves, regardless of whether the artifact is destroyed by its ability or not. (If the artifact gets destroyed/shrouded/untargetable in some other way before the ability resolves, the whole thing fizzles, and you don't get an armpit flare.)
If you're going to be running the whole "turn things into artifacts, blow things up" package, you are basically legally bound to use Glissa Sunseeker. Also Shattering Spree is good for such things.
A fun card I've found for Intet is Guided Passage. Problem artifact? Make a deal with someone to let you get your Krosan Grip, and you can get a land and creature out of it for yourself. Also, Trade Secrets is one of the most ridiculous and awesome cards ever, and I highly recommend it. (Make sure you put a Reliquary Tower in, and play Trade before you play your land.)
PS: If you're running Bear Umbra, you might as well run Hellkite Charger. You're using Aggravated Assault already, so I know you don't object to that particular combo. Nature's Will works too.
As a connoisseur of fun, interesting matches, I still to this day have not been able to craft that "perfect deck"; the deck that I can play and have fun over time, doesn't get boring, but simultaneously is fun to play against. I honestly don't think it exists. It's like a unicorn. A ninja unicorn.
If you're going to be running the whole "turn things into artifacts, blow things up" package, you are basically legally bound to use Glissa Sunseeker. Also Shattering Spree is good for such things.
I like Glissa alot now that you've pointed her out, I don't have one right now, but she looks easy to order. Shattering Spree concerns me because the replicate needs R so the color requirement could get hairy. I had Builder's Bane in originally, but cut it b/c of lack of space.
Another card I was thinking of adding was Darksteel Forge. It only affects my artifacts and can be a cool way to combo with my artifact effects. Bonus points because Memnarch permanently changes a card to be an artifact.
PS: If you're running Bear Umbra, you might as well run Hellkite Charger. You're using Aggravated Assault already, so I know you don't object to that particular combo. Nature's Will works too.
I really thought I had a Hellkite Charger lying around, but I couldn't find him. I think he will be going in. Nature's Will looks like a keeper as well. Any ideas on what to cut for them?
As a longtime Intet player, I do have some suggestions...
On the artifact hate angle, instead of Shattering Spree, you could try Shattering Pulse and/or Viashino Heretic, both of which fit right in with that theme.
Decimate is amazing, although some people don't like to run it because you often have to wait a little while before pulling the trigger. It's too good to ignore, IMO.
Crystal Shard is very good in conjunction with a lot of your creatures, and can always be used to possibly bounce a troublesome guy from an opponent.
Regarding your dislike of combos, I mostly agree; I built my deck with Intet foremost in my mind, but I excluded things like Pestermite (although I had Kiki-Jiki, mostly to use things like Woodfall Primus and such repeatedly) because I wasn't wild about that sort of thing. It's very possible to build the deck around Intet without going the combo route, and it's a lot of fun.
So I would LOVE to play Scroll Rack, alas I don't have one and am not sure about shelling out the cash for it. Ditto for the top. I have plenty of Worldly Tutors though, but I don't know what to cut for it. Any advice?
Sol Grail kinda sucks. I'd rather this were a Signet, etc....
Hmm, I have a Gilded Lotus in my "work in progress" Teneb deck (watch for that post soon!). I really am concerned about the mana base in this deck, 2- and 3-colored mana requirements so I want to stick with one that provides colored mana. I considered signets but I actually (and maybe embarrassingly) don't have any on hand. I could get some, but then I have to settle for always getting the same two colors with it. I hear you though, Sol Grail is under scrutiny now.
The deck looks mostly very good. I applaud turning men as a stategy. To that end, how to you feel about Overrun?
I like Overrun in general, but I am imagining that I won't have a huge board with this deck. I think tokens when I think Overrun. My "alpha strike" trick is going to be turning a land into an artifact and using Tanglewalker to sneak in.... A little risky if Tanglewalker gets 86'ed in between declare attackers and declare blockers, but then again I'm a risk taker
On the artifact hate angle, instead of Shattering Spree, you could try Shattering Pulse and/or Viashino Heretic, both of which fit right in with that theme.
Crystal Shard is very good in conjunction with a lot of your creatures,...
Originally I had Vedalken Mastermind and Time Elemental and was trying to work in Crystal Shard (or Erratic Portal which I unfortunately don't have a copy of). I just don't know what to cut to get all that bounce in. When I started the deck I though "100 cards! so much room to design!" now I am like, "ARG no room!"
If you want to use your Commander's ability to good effect, some cards that allow it are:... there are tons of ways to constantly view/manipulate the top of your library
I have Magus of the Future in there. I'm not sure where to fit in the other cards you listed though. I was considering Sylvan Library. Any thoughts on what I can swap? How important is deck manipulation? I was thinking I could be content to be surprised most of the time.
I have Magus of the Future in there. I'm not sure where to fit in the other cards you listed though. I was considering Sylvan Library. Any thoughts on what I can swap? How important is deck manipulation? I was thinking I could be content to be surprised most of the time.
It really just depends on how much you want to use his ability, and if there are specific cards you want to consistently cast using him. I had ~10 permanents that would either reveal or manipulate the top card(s) of my library, along with a handful of spells that did the same, but I had a few spells that I tended to search up to use with Intet.
Now, I don't think all of those are necessary by any means, and if you're not revolving your deck around using Intet (which I was), I think using maybe half of them is still very good. It also depends on what types of cards you're going to want to use with him, or if you just want to do whatever's on top regardless. If I could only pick 5 of them, I would pick Crystal Ball, Sensei's Divining Top, Sylvan Library, Future Sight, and Oracle of Mul Daya; in my experience, those are the most consistently useful even without Intet in play.
As far as what to cut for them, it's hard to say. You need to evaluate each card in your deck and its role, and determine if any of the above cards are better suited for the deck.
So I would LOVE to play Scroll Rack, alas I don't have one and am not sure about shelling out the cash for it. Ditto for the top. I have plenty of Worldly Tutors though, but I don't know what to cut for it. Any advice?
Hmm, I have a Gilded Lotus in my "work in progress" Teneb deck (watch for that post soon!). I really am concerned about the mana base in this deck, 2- and 3-colored mana requirements so I want to stick with one that provides colored mana. I considered signets but I actually (and maybe embarrassingly) don't have any on hand. I could get some, but then I have to settle for always getting the same two colors with it. I hear you though, Sol Grail is under scrutiny now.
Your list is pretty tight. I think I might cut Time Reversal or Masked Admirers for the Tutor.
The signets are pretty good. I'd invest in a few. They can't be that expensive. You could add two relevant signets in place of Sol Grail and Fellwar Stone. I'd probably add the two green ones because that looks like the dominant color here and because some of your other ramp depends on green, but you can use whichever two work best.
Ok so I've been thinking about the deck. My theory is that I want 3 things: Beat-down, Removal, Card-advantage
So here are the cards I'm putting "on the chopping block" to cut. Following it are cards "on deck" I'm looking to get in. What are people's thoughts? If you could, I would appreciate suggestions on what to take out and what to put in as a pair. I don't think any of the swaps would be obvious so some advice as to why would also be appreciated.
Body Double and Seedborn Muse are excellent cards. The latter is particularly good, and is always a good idea. I wouldn't cut either of those.
I would probably cut Echoing Ruin (it's a sorcery, boo) and Tidings (another sorcery, boo). Prototype Portal and Soul Foundry both seem very risky. Memory Crystal seems kinda blah: if you really have that many cycle effects, you should probably get some better spells so that you don't have to waste so much time cycling away the garbage. Trigon of Thought is horribly slow (try Mind's Eye instead).
Body Double and Seedborn Muse are excellent cards. The latter is particularly good, and is always a good idea. I wouldn't cut either of those.
Hm, I agree those are great cards. I just wonder if there are cards with better synergy that I should consider. Seedborn Muse Will probably stay in. I'm still on the fence about Body Double.
Prototype Portal and Soul Foundry both seem very risky. Memory Crystal seems kinda blah: if you really have that many cycle effects, you should probably get some better spells so that you don't have to waste so much time cycling away the garbage.
I would add a time stretch or time warp effect-- but I suppose that would cause your deck to go to combo potential as there really isn't a way to avoid infinite turn combo in intet if you have a time warp effect
I would trade a viridian shaman up into an indrik stomphowler.
As for the mana base, I have found that the mana base I have in my intet deck (see signature) works very well at letting me cast anything from kiki jiki to magus of the future to eternal witness and then ste as soon as I get to 5 mana.
Also, I must say that Jace, The mind sculptor is an absolute tank.
Glissa Sunseeker would fit with your theme. I am slightly worried about how few lands you have. But I suppose that if you run realms uncharted, life from the loam and the ravnica bounce lands it helps stretch your mana base.
Also, mana crypt and mana vault are both pretty good. And if you like loading up graveyards with wheel of fortune style effects, cards like memory jar, genesis, anger and wonder can go a long way.
If you're going to go the route of stealing artifacts and creatures, you simply must have my favorite junk rare Bazaar Trader. You target yourself with the ability, then whatever you manage to have for a turn, you keep forever. It's amazing with Word of Seizing and all sorts of Threaten effects. I use him in my Akroma, Angel of Fury deck.
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If you're going to go the route of stealing artifacts and creatures, you simply must have my favorite junk rare Bazaar Trader. You target yourself with the ability, then whatever you manage to have for a turn, you keep forever. It's amazing with Word of Seizing and all sorts of Threaten effects. I use him in my Akroma, Angel of Fury deck.
As a connoisseur of fun, interesting matches, I still to this day have not been able to craft that "perfect deck"; the deck that I can play and have fun over time, doesn't get boring, but simultaneously is fun to play against. I honestly don't think it exists. It's like a unicorn. A ninja unicorn.
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Here's the list:
1x Intet, the Dreamer
Creatures [22]:
1x Artisan of Kozilek
1x Acidic Slime
1x Aeon Chronicler
1x Anarchist
1x Body Double
1x Clone
1x Duplicant
1x Eternal Witness
1x Hoard-Smelter dragon
1x Izzet Chronarch
1x Magus of the Future
1x Magus of the Unseen
1x Masked Admirers
1x Memnarch
1x Mulldrifter
1x Neurok Transmuter
1x Scrivener
1x Seedborn Muse
1x Tanglewalker
1x Torchling
1x Ulamog the Infinite Gyre
1x Viridian Shaman
Spells [25]:
1x Brainstorm
1x Capsize
1x Comet Storm
1x Disaster Radius
1x Evacuation
1x Explosive Vegetation
1x Fanning the Flames
1x Fork
1x Grab the Reins
1x Krosan Grip
1x Life from the Loam
1x Primal Command
1x Realms Uncharted
1x Recollect
1x Recurring Insight
1x Reiterate
1x Regrowth
1x Relic Crush
1x Rite of Replication
1x Savage Beating
1x Shattering Pulse
1x Spitting Image
1x Time Reversal
1x Word of Seizing
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Aggravated Assault
1x Bear Umbra
1x Control Magic
1x Dragon Roost
1x Fool's Demise
1x Leyline of Anticipation
1x Mystic Remora
1x Steal Artifact
1x Volition reins
Artifacts [10]:
1x Coalition Relic
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Fellwar Stone
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Liquimetal Coating
1x Mycosynth Lattice
1x Sol Grail
1x Sol Ring
1x Thran Forge
1x Whispersilk Cloak
Lands [33]:
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Exotic Orchard
1x Fungal Reaches
1x Grand Coliseum
1x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Gruul Turf
1x Izzet Boilerworks
1x Mirrodin's Core
1x Raging Ravine
1x Rupture Spire
1x Shivan Reef
1x Simic Growth Chamber
5x Snow-Covered Forest
4x Snow-Covered Island
5x Snow-Covered Mountain
1x Strip Mine
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Thawing Glaciers
1x Tolaria West
1x Vivid Crag
1x Vivid Grove
1x Yavimaya Coast
The plan is to win by turning men, which seems like a departure from the combo oriented Intet decks I've seen posted all over. I don't find going infinite combos satisfying, so I'm avoiding that.
That being said there is one "infinite" combo in here with Bear's Umbra and Aggravated Assault. I feel ok with the because it fits nicely with the "attack to win" plan, and it gives the other players a chance to block their way out of the jam. Also, it's a pretty frail combo (but, of course, not the only way to win).
One particular thread is turning my opponents permanents into artifacts, and then applying the hurt. Memnarch, Thran Forge, Neurok Transmuter, Mycosynth Lattice and Liquimetal Coating set up the permanent and then I can either steal it or destroy it in a number of ways.
Also a question: If I target an indestructible artifact with Hoard-Smelter Dragon's ability (for instance, my own Darksteel ingot) I believe he would get +3/+0 and not destroy anything. Correct?
If you're going to be running the whole "turn things into artifacts, blow things up" package, you are basically legally bound to use Glissa Sunseeker. Also Shattering Spree is good for such things.
A fun card I've found for Intet is Guided Passage. Problem artifact? Make a deal with someone to let you get your Krosan Grip, and you can get a land and creature out of it for yourself. Also, Trade Secrets is one of the most ridiculous and awesome cards ever, and I highly recommend it. (Make sure you put a Reliquary Tower in, and play Trade before you play your land.)
PS: If you're running Bear Umbra, you might as well run Hellkite Charger. You're using Aggravated Assault already, so I know you don't object to that particular combo. Nature's Will works too.
PPS: What?
I like Glissa alot now that you've pointed her out, I don't have one right now, but she looks easy to order. Shattering Spree concerns me because the replicate needs R so the color requirement could get hairy. I had Builder's Bane in originally, but cut it b/c of lack of space.
Another card I was thinking of adding was Darksteel Forge. It only affects my artifacts and can be a cool way to combo with my artifact effects. Bonus points because Memnarch permanently changes a card to be an artifact.
At what point should I try to work in Fabricate or Shape Anew?
I really thought I had a Hellkite Charger lying around, but I couldn't find him. I think he will be going in. Nature's Will looks like a keeper as well. Any ideas on what to cut for them?
I sometimes use "turn men" as a slang for "tap to attack"
So yeah, help with what to cut is always appreciated. Are Time Elemental and Vedalken Mastermind worth the trouble?
1x Artisan of Kozilek
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1x Mycosynth Lattice
1x Snow-covered Island
1x Yavimaya Coast
1x Lotus Vale
1x Molten Disaster
1x Time Elemental
1x Undiscovered Paradise
1x Vedalken Mastermind
Sol Grail kinda sucks. I'd rather this were a Signet, Grim Monlith, Gilded Lotus, Mindstone, Dreamstone Hedron. I also like Restock more than Recollect.
The deck looks mostly very good. I applaud turning men as a stategy. To that end, how to you feel about Overrun?
Cheers,
rant
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On the artifact hate angle, instead of Shattering Spree, you could try Shattering Pulse and/or Viashino Heretic, both of which fit right in with that theme.
Decimate is amazing, although some people don't like to run it because you often have to wait a little while before pulling the trigger. It's too good to ignore, IMO.
Crystal Shard is very good in conjunction with a lot of your creatures, and can always be used to possibly bounce a troublesome guy from an opponent.
If you want to use your Commander's ability to good effect, some cards that allow it are: Future Sight, Magus of the Future, Sphinx of Jwar Isle, Crystal Ball, Oracle of Mul Daya...there are tons of ways to constantly view/manipulate the top of your library, and some have been mentioned by previous posters.
Regarding your dislike of combos, I mostly agree; I built my deck with Intet foremost in my mind, but I excluded things like Pestermite (although I had Kiki-Jiki, mostly to use things like Woodfall Primus and such repeatedly) because I wasn't wild about that sort of thing. It's very possible to build the deck around Intet without going the combo route, and it's a lot of fun.
Enjoy.
1 Leyline of Anticipation
2 Mirrodin's Core
3 Rupture Spire
4 Wheel of Fortune
1 Chain Reaction
2 Halimar Depths
3 Mountain Valley
4 Mouth of Ronom
So I would LOVE to play Scroll Rack, alas I don't have one and am not sure about shelling out the cash for it. Ditto for the top. I have plenty of Worldly Tutors though, but I don't know what to cut for it. Any advice?
Hmm, I have a Gilded Lotus in my "work in progress" Teneb deck (watch for that post soon!). I really am concerned about the mana base in this deck, 2- and 3-colored mana requirements so I want to stick with one that provides colored mana. I considered signets but I actually (and maybe embarrassingly) don't have any on hand. I could get some, but then I have to settle for always getting the same two colors with it. I hear you though, Sol Grail is under scrutiny now.
I like Overrun in general, but I am imagining that I won't have a huge board with this deck. I think tokens when I think Overrun. My "alpha strike" trick is going to be turning a land into an artifact and using Tanglewalker to sneak in.... A little risky if Tanglewalker gets 86'ed in between declare attackers and declare blockers, but then again I'm a risk taker
I was unaware of Viashino Heretic and now want one in there badly! I already have a Shattering Pulse in the deck too
I like it, but again, don't have one. I think I will try and get it in though. I like the shotgun blast approach.
Originally I had Vedalken Mastermind and Time Elemental and was trying to work in Crystal Shard (or Erratic Portal which I unfortunately don't have a copy of). I just don't know what to cut to get all that bounce in. When I started the deck I though "100 cards! so much room to design!" now I am like, "ARG no room!"
I have Magus of the Future in there. I'm not sure where to fit in the other cards you listed though. I was considering Sylvan Library. Any thoughts on what I can swap? How important is deck manipulation? I was thinking I could be content to be surprised most of the time.
It really just depends on how much you want to use his ability, and if there are specific cards you want to consistently cast using him. I had ~10 permanents that would either reveal or manipulate the top card(s) of my library, along with a handful of spells that did the same, but I had a few spells that I tended to search up to use with Intet.
Cards I used for viewing/manipulation:
Now, I don't think all of those are necessary by any means, and if you're not revolving your deck around using Intet (which I was), I think using maybe half of them is still very good. It also depends on what types of cards you're going to want to use with him, or if you just want to do whatever's on top regardless. If I could only pick 5 of them, I would pick Crystal Ball, Sensei's Divining Top, Sylvan Library, Future Sight, and Oracle of Mul Daya; in my experience, those are the most consistently useful even without Intet in play.
As far as what to cut for them, it's hard to say. You need to evaluate each card in your deck and its role, and determine if any of the above cards are better suited for the deck.
Hope that was helpful.
Your list is pretty tight. I think I might cut Time Reversal or Masked Admirers for the Tutor.
The signets are pretty good. I'd invest in a few. They can't be that expensive. You could add two relevant signets in place of Sol Grail and Fellwar Stone. I'd probably add the two green ones because that looks like the dominant color here and because some of your other ramp depends on green, but you can use whichever two work best.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
So here are the cards I'm putting "on the chopping block" to cut. Following it are cards "on deck" I'm looking to get in. What are people's thoughts? If you could, I would appreciate suggestions on what to take out and what to put in as a pair. I don't think any of the swaps would be obvious so some advice as to why would also be appreciated.
01 Body Double
02 Clone
03 Magus of the Unseen
04 Seedborn Muse
05 Tanglewalker
06 Torchling
07 Fanning the Flames
08 Fork
09 Grab the Reins
10 Reiterate
11 Time Reversal
12 Word of Seizing
13 Fool's Demise
14 Leyline of Anticipation
01 Gorilla Shaman
02 Glissa Sunseeker
03 Hellkite Charger
04 Mnemonic Wall
05 Nucklavee
06 Sundering Titan
07 Viashino Heretic
Spells:
08 Echoing Ruin
09 Evolution Charm
10 Hurkyl's Recall
11 Mystical Tutor
12 Tidings
13 Worldly Tutor
14 Crystal Ball
15 Crystal Shard
16 Erratic Portal
17 Memory Crystal
18 Prototype Portal
19 Soul Foundry
20 Trigon of Thought
21 Voltaic Key
22 Nature's Will
23 Sylvan Library
24 Treasure Trove
Land:
25 Lotus Vale
I would probably cut Echoing Ruin (it's a sorcery, boo) and Tidings (another sorcery, boo). Prototype Portal and Soul Foundry both seem very risky. Memory Crystal seems kinda blah: if you really have that many cycle effects, you should probably get some better spells so that you don't have to waste so much time cycling away the garbage. Trigon of Thought is horribly slow (try Mind's Eye instead).
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Hm, I agree those are great cards. I just wonder if there are cards with better synergy that I should consider. Seedborn Muse Will probably stay in. I'm still on the fence about Body Double.
Memory Crystal works with buyback not cycling. So Capsize, Shattering Pulse, and Fanning the Flammes would be cheaper. That being said, I don't think it is making it in.
Soul Foundry and Prototype Portal seemed like an ingesting way to get more milage out of 187 effects. Little slow though.
Mind's Eye looks promising...
I would add a time stretch or time warp effect-- but I suppose that would cause your deck to go to combo potential as there really isn't a way to avoid infinite turn combo in intet if you have a time warp effect
I would trade a viridian shaman up into an indrik stomphowler.
As for the mana base, I have found that the mana base I have in my intet deck (see signature) works very well at letting me cast anything from kiki jiki to magus of the future to eternal witness and then ste as soon as I get to 5 mana.
Also, I must say that Jace, The mind sculptor is an absolute tank.
Glissa Sunseeker would fit with your theme. I am slightly worried about how few lands you have. But I suppose that if you run realms uncharted, life from the loam and the ravnica bounce lands it helps stretch your mana base.
Also, mana crypt and mana vault are both pretty good. And if you like loading up graveyards with wheel of fortune style effects, cards like memory jar, genesis, anger and wonder can go a long way.
Legacy:WUBG Jace Rock
Trade thread
Sig by: heroes of the plane studios
Currently playing:
GW(G/B) Maverick
RRR Burn
(G/B)G(G/R) Elves!
Building: Who knows?
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WR Jor Kadeen - 100% pimp
URG Maelstrom Wanderer - rampramprampbomb.dec
UG Prime Speaker Zegana Control
UBR Gwendlyn di Corci and her band of Scantily Clad Women
UR Pauper Gelectrode
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That is the best use of Bazaar Trader I have ever heard. It's definitely going in my Threaten-heavy Fumiko the Lowblood deck.