[Primer] Kamahl, Fist of Krosa - Fully Altered - Multiplayer

[Galspanic]

Why play this commander?
Mono-green is a lot of fun to play because it gives you some of those old fashioned brusier moves that makes Magic fun. You get big creature, lots of creatures, and have some pretty solid draw power and solutions (answers). Any decent green deck won't really need its General to do well, but there is a reason Kamahl, Fist of Krosa is stronger than all the others: He protects your army. I don't really know why people use Azusa, Lost but Seeking and Omnath, Locus of Mana... or why they are the most popular generals. All they do is help make a ton of mana, but doesn't the deck already do that? A lot of the other General choices for mono-green give you thematic or combo elements but in a more generic approach to the motif, Kamahl does what Green has a hard time doing: preventing Wrath effects. By animating your opponent's land while there is a creature wipe on the stack, you kill all their lands and start over with a ton of mana. This should be an assymetrical enough effect that they A) Never do that again, or B) You win. Either way, it's good.

I guess, the fact that gives you an Overrun effect in the Command Zone is good to, but the deck tends to make pretty big dudes anyway. The only draw back of Kamahl is that he can get expensive if you have to cast him 3-4 times, but even then it's usually late in the game and you have a ton of Mana so it's not that bad. Or, you don't and you are going to lose anyway.

Deck History
I began playing Mono-Green like a lot of people - I saw some guy at the local shop puke out an entire deck with Azusa and thought it looked cool. After trying out a 48 land version of the deck I decided that it seemed like a complete waste of space to fill the command zone with Mana ramp. If the general got killed or stolen I was stuck with a bunch of land. If she stuck around I did fine, but it was the exact same progression every game. So, I started playing around with different generals and found that Kamahl simply gave me a more powerful card that was always sitting there in the Command Zone. The deck quickly dropped lands for creatures that put those lands into play and then I started tweaking things around to make it more creature-focused. Green interacts with creatures better than any other color and it just made sense to put things like Farhaven Elf in instead of Cultivate because of this fact. I found every effect I could and tried to find it strapped onto a creature card and so far it's gone quite well.

Deck List

Green Kamahl

General - 1 1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa Land - 36 26 Forest 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All 1 Deserted Temple 1 Dryad Arbor 1 Gaea's Cradle 1 Inkmoth Nexus 1 Misty Rainforest 1 Mosswort Bridge 1 Reliquary Tower 1 Verdant Catacombs 1 Windswept Heath Ramp Creatures - 15 1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking 1 Farhaven Elf 1 Magus of the Candelabra 1 Ondu Giant 1 Oracle of Mul Daya 1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary 1 Sakura-Tribe Elder 1 Seedborn Muse 1 Solemn Simulacrum 1 Sylvan Ranger 1 Sylvan Primordial 1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger 1 Wood Elves 1 Yavimaya Druid 1 Yavimaya Elder Other Ramp - 11 1 Caged Sun 1 Doubling Cube 1 Early Harvest 1 Exploration 1 Gauntlet of Power 1 Mana Reflection 1 Rites of Flourishing 1 Rude Awakening 1 Sol Ring 1 Storm Cauldron 1 Vernal Bloom

Draw/Tutor - 17 1 Birthing Pod 1 Chord of Calling 1 Defense of the Heart 1 Elvish Visionary 1 Genesis Wave 1 Greater Good 1 Green Sun's Zenith 1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth 1 Lurking Predators 1 Mirri's Guile 1 Regal Force 1 Sensei's Divining Top 1 Skullclamp 1 Soul of the Harvest 1 Sylvan Library 1 Tooth and Nail 1 Worldly Tutor Removal - 8 1 Acidic Slime 1 Beast Within 1 Duplicant 1 Indrik Stomphowler 1 Krosan Grip 1 Oblivion Stone 1 Terastodon 1 Woodfall Primus Dudes - 5 1 Ant Queen 1 Avenger of Zendikar 1 Craterhoof Behemoth 1 Gelatinous Genesis 1 Rampaging Baloths Other (Combo, Recursion, etc.) - 7 1 Akroma's Memorial 1 Cloudstone Curio 1 Concordant Crossroads 1 Dosan the Falling Leaf 1 Eternal Witness 1 Praetor's Counsel 1 Yeva, Nature's Herald

Fully Altered Visual List

El Capitan:

Land:

Ramp:

Draw and Tutor:

Removal, Guys, Grease:

Change Log
The deck has been in progress for 2 years in that thread and a lot of things have changed around. Because changing cards in this deck is a lot more difficult than most decks the list has been pretty stable. But when a good thing comes around, it gets added and other things get cut.

- 1 Primordial Sage - Soul of the Harvest just does what I want better than Sage
+ 1 Soul of the Harvest
- 1 Forest
+ 1 Sol Ring - Being able to push your 3 mana spells on turn 2 gives the deck a lot more power. Late game it's usually worse than a forest, but that's cool.
- 1 Aluren - The card was too narrow and in my meta game it often enabled my opponents more than me.
+ 1 Duplicant - With Avacyn, Angel of Hope I found myself needing a creature-based Exile spell for her.
- 1 Liege of the Tangle - Pet card, but just not good enough.
+ 1 Craterhoof Behemoth - This was the death knell for Liege of the Tangle. The Pump/Trample/Haste was just so much better.
- 1 Primeval Titan - Banned
+ Yeva, Nature's Herald - She was on the cusp and with Titan gone she made the team.
- 1 Wolfbriar Elemental - I love this card but it's so bad. Cheating it into play gives you nothing but a generic 4/4. The tokens are nice, but just don't happen often enough.
+ Sylvan Primordial - Newest member of the squad, but he does a lot!

Card Options

Why I gots the cards I gots:

General
*Kamahl, Fist of Krosa - See above.

Land
*Forest - The core of the deck is plain old basic Forest.
*Boseiju, Who Shelters All - The deck plays a few big mana spells that other people love to counter. Tapping out for a Genesis Wave or Praetor's Counsel is only fun when they resolve.
*Deserted Temple - Sometimes your Gaea's Cradle can tap for a ton of mana and sometimes you want it to tap for 2 tons of mana (-). Even with a basic Forest and a few mana doublers on boad you can get value out of Temple.
*Dryad Arbor - This is the definitive "grease" card of the deck. Turn 1 it ramps with Green Sun's Zenith. With Oblivion Stone it leaves you with a creature on board when everyone else is bare. It combos with Azusa, Lost but Seeking and Cloudstone Curio to trigger some ridiculous infinite draw and infinite mana tricks. Worst case, it's just a 1/1 guy that you can block, attack and strap on a Skullclamp.
*Gaea's Cradle - If you want to make 50+ mana in one turn this is the best card to get there. The deck likes to have a lot of little creatures out and so does Cradle.
*Inkmoth Nexus - It looks like a bad little 1/1 infect, but with Kamahl it can easily be a 10/10 Flying death to the teeth.
*Mosswort Bridge - Getting 10 power isn't hard and there are cards that love being flashed in that it makes the cut. Sometimes it ramps, sometimes it's removal, and sometimes it's just a dude.
*Reliquary Tower - With as many cards that draw in the deck it's helpful to keep them in hand.
*Misty Rainforest,Verdant Catacombs,Windswept Heath - They may look like different cards but they really aren't in this deck. Their two functions are simple... First, they trigger Landfall with Avenger of Zendikar and Rampaging Baloths to make more dudes or make little guys bigger. The second thing they do it mess with the top of my deck. Oracle of Mul Daya, Lurking Predators, Mirri's Guile, Sensei's Divining Top, and Sylvan Library all give you information about your top card and often that card is poop. Fetchlands give you the chance to cut to something better.

Ramp Creatures
*Azusa, Lost but Seeking - You have Forests in hand? Not anymore. She's good at taking all the extra land in hand and dumping it onto the table. Early on she is ~okay~ in this deck but I don't usually have a ton of extra land in hand. Later, after a Regal Force draw it's great!
*Farhaven Elf - 3 mana puts a land into play and gives you board presence. Being a creature makes it easy to tutor for and gives you board presence. 1/1's aren't anything cool, but if you overrun with Kamahl it can matter. Also, he's Skullclampable.
*Magus of the Candelabra - On his own he's pretty much crap. But, with a mana doubler he is great. The main reason he's here is because completes the Birthing Pod chain. There aren't a lot of 1-drops that really work with this deck so, while not amazing, he does a lot to help grease things.
*Ondu Giant - See Farhaven Elf.
*Oracle of Mul Daya - Good old ramp for 4 mana. With top deck manipulation you can crank out 3-4 mana with this guy before he dies.
*Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary - Early game he's insane. Late game he can rebuild an empty board all on his own. Typically he eats removal and doesn't get to tap more than once, but pulling removal is good - it means they aren't killing your actual threats and as you can tell, the deck ramps just fine without him.
*Sakura-Tribe Elder - Birthing Pod curve? Check. 2 mana ramp with a dude attached. Good card.
*Seedborn Muse - If there is a most "win-more" card in the deck Seedborn Muse is probably the up there. She isn't needed at all, but with Ant Queen you can spit out an army by the time it's your turn again. With Kamahl you can have mana open to turn your opponents' lands into creatures if they destroy all creatures. Or, you can drop Divinity Counters all over your stuff with an Oblivious Stone out.
*Solemn Simulacrum - See Farhaven Elf and when he dies you get a card.
*Sylvan Ranger - This card is snickered at sometimes, but it's another "grease" card that does some very useful and redundant things. She: puts a land in hand, has 1 toughness for Skullclamp, puts a body on the field, and gives you another 2 mana creature for Birthing Pod.
*Sylvan Primordial - For 7 mana I get to blow up 3 things usually and then grab 3 Forests. Reach is such a silly ability on this card, but it's got a big ass and can grab some big creatures out of the sky. So far, Reach has been pretty good. And the other stuff is awesome.
*Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger - Mana doublers are what this deck is all about and he's a big fatty that doubles my mana. The tap-down thing is really sweet too, but frankly I'd rather he didn't have it. Vorinclexl dies way too fast because of that ability and I really play him for my benefit, not to screw people.
*Wood Elves - See Farhaven Elf, but with two mana doublers out he's a free creature!
*Yavimaya Druid - See Farhaven Elf. I could say something about giving the land to an opponent so I have an unblockable 1/1 but really I can't say I've ever done that.
*Yavimaya Elder - Lands in hand are good. I don't want to drop a million Forests a turn but he/she keeps the deck from getting land screw and lets you take full advantage of cards like Exploration.

Other Ramp
*Caged Sun, Gauntlet of Power, Vernal Bloom, and Mana Reflection - They make your Forests tap for lots of mana. The deck loves to have a lot of mana.
*Doubling Cube - This one is pretty goofy, but it's really easy to hit triple digit mana with Doubling Cube. It's not necessary at all, but it allows for some huge turns that end the game right away. It's also handy when you Genesis Wave into it and need to make 12-20 mana to seal the deal.
*Early Harvest - This is another way to get a lot of mana really fast. It's a 1-shot deal, but usually is enough to power out what you need. Most of the time it generates 10-12 mana but in a pinch it's just a Dark Ritual.
*Exploration - Play an extra land per turn! Play this on turn 1 and you get to play the 3-drops on turn 2. The deck wants to play something every turn so this also plays the "1-slot" really well. After a big Genesis Wave though this lets you play a land to trigger Landfall too.
*Rites of Flourishing - It's like Exploration but you get to draw an extra card. This is not one of the better cards in the deck because I don't really have any way to break the symmetry. It is useful though.
*Rude Awakening - This is a powered up version of Early Harvest. I have never used it to animate my creatures though. It's untaps nonbasic lands and that can make it superior to Early Harvest when gearing up for an Alpha Strike.
*Sol Ring - I wanted to avoid this card since the deck already makes so much mana early on but the rationale is the same as Exploration - it is something to do on turn 1 and can get you to the 3-drops on turn 2. It's almost always useful but once forests start tapping for 3 mana it looks pretty lame.
*Storm Cauldron - This card is such trash. It's can be like an Armageddon every turn if you don't play it right. But, when you do play it right it can stop all your opponent's from doing about anything and with Gaea's Cradle you can tap it up to 3 times in a turn. The main thing about it is that when you have the ability to play 3-5 land per turn and have mana doublers, you lose nothing and your opponents get their mana base wrecked.

Draw/Tutor
*Birthing Pod - The deck already operates like a bit of a creature tool box. Pod lets you fish for answers easily. It can also help sac Yavimaya Elder and Solemn Simulacrum to get their cards too. The deck already has a pretty strong distribution of creatures - all the way from 0 to 10 - so Pod just makes sense.
*Chord of Calling - Being able to flash a creature in to draw, pump, or even block is good stuff. Avenger of Zendikar and Ant Queen Tokens are great at grabbing a Regal Force to draw a ton of cards, but sometimes the deck needs to flash in a Sylvan Primordial to kill a Ensnaring Bridge or one of those single cards that just kill the deck.
*Defense of the Heart - If this card goes off you should be surprised. I run it to bait removal early and to pressure people later on. It rarely grabs me creatures but it does freak people the **** out, and that's good at letting your other threats survive.
*Elvish Visionary - Board presence that replaces itself. That alone is good enough. Combine with Cloudstone Curio and it can be a critical part of a huge card draw engine. With enough little dudes in hand or near the top of your deck you can dig for a win fast. Also, she helps fill the critical Birthing Pod 2-slot.
*Genesis Wave - Play a quarter of your deck at once? Sounds good.
*Greater Good - There are times when you have 40 creatures on board off a huge Genesis Wave or Regal Force draw and no matter what you do, there isnt' anything you can do without Concordant Crossroads. An army of huge Plant or Ooze Tokens are great to trash for cards. It's also a way to keep Kamahl from getting tucked or stolen.
*Green Sun's Zenith - Another toolbox enabler. The real treat is to ramp with this card on turn 1 by grabbing Dryad Arbor. Getting shuffled back in is just gravy.
*Kozilek, Butcher of Truth - He is a Draw 4 and graveyard shuffler... and a gigantic Annihilating monster. I do have him listed as a Draw spell since that's usually what I use him for, but we all know how much of an impact he has once on board.
*Lurking Predators - With well over one third of the deck being creatures and having a lot of top-deck control, this card is just great. Whenever anyone plays something I get a guy or just Scry 1.
*Mirri's Guile - It's a weaker version of Sensei's Divining Top but also doesn't require any additional investment once it resolves. It just sits there and lets you set up the top couple cards. This matters most with Oracle of Mul Daya and Lurking Predators.
*Regal Force - I like when I have a bunch of scary guys on the table. I love when I can draw a dozen cards to combo off and win. Regal Force is one of the 3-4 strongest cards in the deck simply because he is a creature that fills your hand.
*Sensei's Divining Top - I don't actually run this card in a lot of my decks, but in this one it's easy to use and smoothes things out nicely.
*Skullclamp - In any deck with an excess of X/1 creatures you run this card. 1 mana, draw a card is usually how it plays out since there are often a million little guys just sitting on the table.
*Soul of the Harvest - Like Lurking Predators, it just sits there and takes advantage of the relatively high creature count. And, he has trample and is sort of big.
*Sylvan Library - This completes the triad with Sensei's Divining Top and Mirri's Guile. Redundancy is good when you run a combo/synergy based deck like this one.
*Tooth and Nail - More often than not, I grab Regal Force and Avenger of Zendikar. If you have Cloudstone Curio and some mana doublers I grab Azusa, Lost but Seeking and Dryad Arbor... or Eternal Witness if one of them is in the graveyard. Sometimes though it's good to fetch a Duplicant and Indrik Stompholwer. It's just another toolboxing card.
*Worldly Tutor - Get a creature for the next turn or put something like Kozilek, Butcher of Truth on top of the deck while Lurking Predators' ability is on the stack. 1 mana is a really small investment to get the creature you want.

Removal
Acidic Slime, Indrik Stomphowler, Terastodon, Woodfall Primus - Creatures that blow up stuff you want to kill when they come into play. Each one is slightly different, but the main role they all serve is killing artifacts and enchantments since I get stopped by a lot of those.
*Beast Within - Instant speed removal of any permanent? In Green? Wow.
*Duplicant - Some creatures are really tough to handle with this deck. Duplicant kills. Being a creature means that I can tutor for him easily and the fact that he's colorless is amazing in a meta full of Sword of Feast and Famine.
*Krosan Grip - It's simply the best 1-shot Naturalize variant in the game. When I kill something I want it to be dead.
*Oblivion Stone - The only board wipe in the deck. Being a permanent than can go off the turn you play it is a big advantage over Nevinyrral's Disk. Getting the option of saving some permanents too is great. Add a Seedborn Muse to the mix and you can let it sit for a turn and walk away with a strong board presence while everyone else has nothing but some land.

Dudes
*Ant Queen - She is a 5/5 for 5, which is sweet, but her real role is to be used as a mana sink. Just being able to drop a couple little ants here and there is helpful and when you have Seedborn Muse out she can get out of control. Ant Queen also seems to combo with Gaea's Cradle pretty well too since the more ants she lays the more ants she gets to lay. Add Muse and Cradle and 40-50 tokens when it's your turn again is not unheard of.
*Avenger of Zendikar - He's an army on 1 card. The plant tokens can get huge and they buff up things like Gaea's Cradle, Regal Force, and Craterhoof Behemoth. In fact, Tooth and Nail fetches Avenger and Regal Force more often than not. Avenger is also nice because if you Genesis Wave into him you can stack the triggers so you get ~some~ guys that all get rally big off the lands that come in next to Avenger.
*Craterhoof Behemoth - He gets big and can make a bunch of little guys almost as huge. The haste is the reason I run him though. Sometimes I have people close to dead, they wipe the board and I need to swing in for lethal the next turn. The deck loves haste and wants it as much as possible.
*Gelatinous Genesis - The Ooze tokens have two main functions, and attacking isn't really one of them. First, they get fed to Greater Good to draw a game ending, help power out something else by bumping Gaea's Cradle, or adding creature count to Regal Force. Their second purpose is to force a board wipe from my opponents. That said, if I am sitting on 15 15/15 tokens I will swing.
*Rampaging Baloths - He's just another version of Avenger of Zendikar. The beasts are bigger right away but not as game breaking as Avenger. Still, totally playable.

Other (Combo, Recursion, etc.)
1 Akroma's Memorial - As mentioned before, the deck likes haste and Memorial is hands down the best haste outlet the deck has. The Flying, Vigilance, and Protection from Red and Black is cool too but I can usually muscle my way through as long as I can attack.
1 Cloudstone Curio - Curio is a combo piece that works well to give the deck more plays. The main combo that I hit with this happens while I have a couple mana doubler on the table, a grip of cards, and Azusa, Lost but Seeking and Dryad Arbor. Pretty much you play Azusa, drop a land, bounce Dryad Arbor, and return Azusa. Tap that first land and do it all again. If you have Gaea's Cradle it's really easy to hit a million mana. Stick an Elvish Visionary in there and you draw your deck. Soul of the Harvest lets you draw out too. Someone tries to kill your creature? Flash in Yeya, Nature's Herald to save that creature and then play it again. Just being able to use the "Enter the Battlefield" effects of the deck's creatures more than once is worth the slot.
1 Concordant Crossroads - See Akroma's Memorial.
1 Dosan the Falling Leaf - I like to play my turn without you messing with me. I ran City of Solitude, but that turned off the "wrath protection" that Kamahl affords us. Dosan is also a creature so I can tutor for him easily too.
1 Eternal Witness A creature (good) that brings back a card from the graveyard (excellent). She combos with Cloudstone Curio too!
1 Praetor's Counsel - Most of the time this is an 8 mana Reliquary Tower since I play against a lot of Graveyard hate. But when it works it's usually really amazing.
1 Yeva, Nature's Herald - This is the most unnecessary card in the deck but she just greases everything so well that she slips into the Command Zone sometimes. Creature that have flash give this deck an edge since they don't have to wait around to get blown up for a whole turn. When Big Dumb Green Stompy gets to say "And at the end of turn...." it's a good day.

Strategy
When you play this deck you have to treat it as a Combo-Aggro stack of cards - and in that order. The first think you want to do is drop a forest and play something on turn 1. There are enough solid 1 mana moves that you should have something to do early. The worst thing to do is wait until your 4th turn before you do anything. Yes, that isn't going to kill you, but it means that you are playing a fair game and this decks sucks when it's playing fair.

The 3 spot is pretty much where all the early game power plays are. It's where you play a Farhaven Elf type creature to drop another land or even Oblivion Stone or Birthing Pod. Whatever it is, 3 mana is where you force the game into "mid game." Once you get that rolling it's just a matter of doubling your mana, drawing some cards, playing a bunch of creatures, and then swinging as much as you can.

As mentioned above, Kamahl's main job is to protect your team from board wipes. I don't find that I rush him out as soon as I have 6 mana. Without to dump into him he is a pretty generic creature. But, if I can play him on an empty board nobody wants to waste a Damnation on just him. If I can untap with him online, I can start to vomit up the deck at my own pace depending on how much available mana I have. If it looks like I can combo off by dumping everyone onto the table he becomes a normal guy, but sometimes it's a swarm of Ant Tokens that need a boost and he does that too. The strategy is pretty linear and simple: Ramp and swing. But, there are enough subtle interactions between the cards that it really can play out in a number of ways.

This deck also just flat out loses sometimes. It's not that it's weak to particular deck types, but if a hardcore Pillowfort deck has a Torpor Orb on the table with an Ensnaring Bridge or Sphere of Safety, a guy with a Blazing Archon, or even a well timed Wake of Destruction, I die hard. The strategy is simply to attack and abuse Enter the Battlefield abilities. So anything that stops those makes it a bit tough. Every card has a way to be beaten, but in some cases you only have 2-3 cards that get around the obstacle.

Personal Bio
I talk about myself way too much already, but just a bit more about my MtG background.... I started playing in 1995 when I was in High School. I threw away most of my cards when I left for college, but occasionally bought a pack or two to see what the current stuff looked like. In 2007 I found the last of my cards in a box that I pulled out of my parent's garage - a Tournament pack with a 60 card Esper-Merfolk deck - and found that I had a ton of free time because I was unemployed living in a new city without any friends. 6 years later I have a job and run a weekly EDH game out of my house. It's nothing fancy, but we have a good group of regulars.

[Donald]

With 38 lands and all that ramp it doesn't seem like you should be running into mana issues early. But if that has been consistently a problem maybe try some extra mana ramp dorks instead like Sylvan Ranger and Pilgrim's Eye (he can also block fliers). That way you're adding land to the deck without actually adding land to the deck.

[Flyclops]

I've always loved Kamahl, but what happens if your opponent drops a Krovax/Ascendant Evincar?

[Galspanic]

Originally Posted by Donald

With 38 lands and all that ramp it doesn't seem like you should be running into mana issues early. But if that has been consistently a problem maybe try some extra mana ramp dorks instead like Sylvan Ranger and Pilgrim's Eye (he can also block fliers). That way you're adding land to the deck without actually adding land to the deck.

I just took out Magus of the Candelabra (bad or overkill and nowhere betwixt) and Rites of Flourishing (Already have the ability to play lands just fine) and added back the Pilgrim's Eye and a Evolution Charm. Those have worked well before but got bumped for Exploration and Primeval Titan this week. They're back and I think that I'll add Sylvan Ranger as soon as I can find one.

Originally Posted by Flyclops

I've always loved Kamahl, but what happens if your opponent drops a Krovax/Ascendant Evincar?

a) Gauntlet of Power
b) Oran-Rief, the Vastwood before they come down.
c) Eldrazi Monument
d) Let the little guys die.
e) Transform Krovax's land into 1/1 creatures and extend my middle finger.

I haven't had much of a problem with that kind of effect since most of the creatures are bigger than X/1 or their dying isn't a big deal. Gaea's Anthem would get in there if I started seeing them. Also, the deck bounces back pretty well from Board Wipes so 39 39/39 Ooze tokens will get there too

[Flyclops]

I totally forgot about Kamahl changing their lands too despite briefly running Ascendant Evincar and Kamahl for just that reason myself.

[ISBPathfinder]

I know im sort of dredging your thread back up (ehhh a month isnt that old) but anyways I wanted to comment on a few things here.

First of all where is your Gaea's Cradle??? you are running a token deck that finishes by doing multiple overruns and you have primeval titan in the deck... this is a needed card. I know its a bit spendy to aquire but the advantage of the fetchlands you have in here are so small I feel like you would be better off selling them and getting a cradle.

Secondly, I have always been disappointed in Oran-Rief, the Vastwood. Yes you are running a token deck so its ramp but it slows you down and rarely will it matter if the tokens are 1/1s or 2/2s

You might also give Howl of the Night Pack and or Sprout Swarm a spin as they are good creature production.

Also you could consider swapping the cultivate out for Hunting Wilds if you are looking for another 2 into play effect. If you are light on your early game ramp you could keep it as is I just prefur the whole 2 land into play effect over cultivate.

[Galspanic]

Originally Posted by ISBPathfinder

I know im sort of dredging your thread back up...

Gaea's Cradle is in someone else's deck until they give me one I can only pack so many $30 cards in before my inner economist screams, "Trade this deck for 3 decks!" Once I find or make one I'll have it in there for sure since it's better in here that Tolarian Academy was in most blue decks. Prime Tit and Exploration are actually a new additions to the deck and hold half its value.

Oran-Rief is pretty hit and miss. With a Woodfall Primus, Deserted Temple, Garruk, and Greater Good it's amazing, but it's not really that important. If I had a Cradle that would be the card that gets bumped.

I had Howl of the Night Pack in there but it got axed. I already put it back in.

...looking through....


I added Ooze Garden, Crop Rotation, Crop Rotation, Mind's Eye, Mirri's Guile. So actually, I have no idea what the deck looks like now.

[Lunar]

Genesis? Im also a fan of Panglacial Wurm in ramp decks as you have so many chances to play him out.

[Galspanic]

Genesis was in there at first since he's amazing, but it doesn't really seem like I get enough guys in my graveyard to warrant a slot that doesn't ramp or lay down multiple guys.

Why do people always suggest Wurm? I get that in a deck like this it's a big fatty that's always in hand, but a single beater that doesn't do anything but swing has never made sense to me in EDH.

If you let me know what to take out I might see it.

(EDIT: Updated)

[ISBPathfinder]

I feel like you could easily cut Overwhelming Stampede from the deck. I get it that it is a double effect but it really is only useful when your general is out and working anyways. I feel like Primal Bellow or Vines of Vastwood would be more effective personally.

You might also consider adding Masked Admirers to the deck for some card draw. Every time one of your land fetching elves dies you can fetch it back up.

Seedguide Ash ramps like nobodys business. He will find some way of dying somewhere along the line. I doubt many people will want to waste a Swords to Plowshares on your ramp. Well they could but its still doubtful.

[Galspanic]

Overwhelming Stampede is definitely on its way out. It wins, but a creature would be better with Genesis Wave and Lurking Predators... and with Kamahl too. I like the idea of Seedguide Ash so I'll give that a shot. Although, Praetor's Counsel might go in instead even though I just said why it would be bad.... but it seems so good.

[ISBPathfinder]

I could also see you running Omnath, Locus of Mana as storing up mana could be rediculous. He would be a high priority target for your opponents though which kind of sucks.

[Lunar]

I like the wurm cause hes always there no matter what which makes a mid or late game top deck of saaaay cultivate when you have 20 lands out already really just a hell of a lot better. Its also a 2 for 1 when you tutor, and double bonus for worldly tutor into panglacial wurm during opponents attack, gaining you not only CA but usually a pretty devastating blow as their little utility creature meets mr wurm.

I also run Omnath, but not as a MD creature but more recently as my general. Yes he is high priority for the opponent, but even with multiple age counters he can come back over and over again easily in a deck with this much ramp. With seedborn muse its pretty much totally ridic. Kamahl drops to the MD as an overrun effect and you still have plenty of ways with green to get him back if he dies. Omnath is also pretty silly with doubling cube.

Genesis is just a great contingency plan for when your threats just dont match up with their removal...recurring Avenger of Zendikar every turn when they kill it over and over again seems good. Of course Genesis gets a lot better with Fauna Shaman and Survival of the Fittest in the deck. Brawn as well. Even still genesis reads..."block this creature at your own peril"


I think the only thing left that I was curious about with your deck is removal..I know green is weak on it, but your list is even more-so.

Nevinyral's Disk
All is Dust
Desert Twister
Spine of Ish Sah
Predator Flagship
Acidic Slime

all seem like important options that you arent running. You can play the "well I just have bigger threats so we can just 1 for 1 them all day" game but id rather have more outs in case things dont quite go right. DT Spine and Flagship at least seem really important as there are creatures that just really ruin our gameplan entirely if we cannot answer them efficiently. (Blazing Archon for example) What do you think?

[Galspanic]

Originally Posted by Lunar

I like the wurm cause...

Thanks for the comments!
Because the deck focuses more on spitting out little guys and tokens the big fatties don't really feel like they fit - and honestly I have no idea what to take out for any of the cards you suggested.

I want to put Genesis in there, but it's so rare that I really need any of the creature cards in the graveyard. Recurring other stuff is more a priority which is why I have Praetor's Counsel, Restock, and E-Witness.

I agree that more removal would be nice and for scenarios like Blazing Archon I have nothing, but I also never run into that. O-stone has been enough, but this deck is also fast enough that people usually see me as a threat before others, so I don't know how much more I would need. Once it does come down to 1-on-1 time I have run into issues like the Archon or Propaganda effects.

[Galspanic]

Bump with some revisions.
Out:
Restock
Mystifying Maze
Forest
Chord of Calling
Something

In:
Praetor's Counsel
Inkmoth Nexus
Misty Rainforest
Green Sun's Zenith
Concordant Crossroads


It's been playing really well lately. The little 2-3 drop guys that grab land have been crucial against other decks and it's strange how having even the slightest board presence early can give you an edge. Also, Concordant Crossroads is a card that I am iffy about but when you Genesis Wave for an army it's nice to win with them and you don't always get your Akroma's Memorial... so it's like AkMem2.0.