Ok so I threw this together immediately after Glissa spoiled and have been testing it out / likely making frequent updates to it. With Glissa, I wasn't sure if I should go tribal or not (could include stuff like Call to the Grave for Zombies or any of the 10,000 elf cards). I've looked at some of the forum posts on Glissa, and decided to go more of an artifact control deck.
I had thrown in a little bit of dredge to try to fill my graveyard and find various artifacts, however, it got the cut after some playtesting.
With forbidden orchard, you can ensure an infinite supply of creatures and combo off with Mindslaver. And because of life from the loam and Glissa, it's easy to recur the combo if it makes it was to the graveyard via Jar, dredge, or the opponents disruption (also life from the loam is great with wasteland / stripmine).
Anyway, here's the deck, it needs some work and any input would be great!:
If anyone has any suggestions / comments, please make them, they are aways much appreciated / needed!
Edits to the deck:
[spoiler]
- Butcher of Malakir
+ Necrotic Ooze
Butcher is super slow, easy to remove, and does;n't really affect the board in most games (I've discovered). Necrotic Ooze was actually in the deck but accidently cut, it's the win of the combo Survival of the Fittest --> Treskillion (graveyard) --> Phrexian Devourer (graveyard) --> Necrotic Ooze FTW.
- Acidic Slime
+ Smokestack
Smokestack is really good at controlling the board + as with Tangle Wire, you choose the order the effects go off, which can save be awesome. + whatever you sac may well be recurrable with Glissa, so I'm a big fan. Acidic Slime is good, but I've got a whole bunch of 'wipe the board' effects already, as well as land destruction.
I realise Spiritmonger might be too little in sync with the rest of the deck, but it's just an awesome beater. And Grave Titan certainly seems to fit; his token-generation can be useful when you need something to sacrifice in a pinch.
Why the Vampire Hexmage + Dark Depths combo? It seems to be included by arbitrary reasons. No denying it's sheer effectiveness, but it seems out of place...
I'll follow this deck with interest - I'm in the process of making a Glissa-deck for EDH myself.
I realise Spiritmonger might be too little in sync with the rest of the deck, but it's just an awesome beater. And Grave Titan certainly seems to fit; his token-generation can be useful when you need something to sacrifice in a pinch.
Spiritmonger is good, but I've ended up cutting lots of good beaters just simply because it didn't affect the board position enough.
Grave titan is very good, I might have included him if I owned a copy, but I wouldn't want to spend $20 (most of the money cards in the deck I already owned). Though I do feel he's an underperformer in EDH considering the 40 life.
Why the Vampire Hexmage + Dark Depths combo? It seems to be included by arbitrary reasons. No denying it's sheer effectiveness, but it seems out of place...
[quote]
I wanted a couple of ways to go just go 'I win'. While Dark Depths is fairly bad on its own, Vampire Hexmage, Primeval Titan, and Tooth and Nail all are, so I considered it an acceptable loss (Also, the combo can be recurred via genesis and life from the loam). (the other instant win being Treskellion, phyrexian devourer, Necrotic Ooze, and Survival). There are just too many games where I fall behind and it's otherwise impossible to catch up.
[quote]
I'll follow this deck with interest - I'm in the process of making a Glissa-deck for EDH myself.
I think it only really helps when I draw a mana excellerator (though I know there are a few other cards), and I would rather just run another mana excellerator.
Spiritmonger is good, but I've ended up cutting lots of good beaters just simply because it didn't affect the board position enough.
He's just a mean sunuva*****, immune to most everything. In a deck that can recur... Well, as I said, I understand he reasoning for not including him though.
Grave titan is very good, I might have included him if I owned a copy, but I wouldn't want to spend $20 (most of the money cards in the deck I already owned). Though I do feel he's an underperformer in EDH considering the 40 life.
The main reason for his inclusion in this deck would be the token-generation. But I certainly see the money-reason.
I wanted a couple of ways to go just go 'I win'. While Dark Depths is fairly bad on its own, Vampire Hexmage, Primeval Titan, and Tooth and Nail all are, so I considered it an acceptable loss (Also, the combo can be recurred via genesis and life from the loam). (the other instant win being Treskellion, phyrexian devourer, Necrotic Ooze, and Survival). There are just too many games where I fall behind and it's otherwise impossible to catch up.
This I get, from a competitive standpoint. I personally dislike that kindda stuff in EDH though (not having it used against me; I just think it's boring to play).
I think it only really helps when I draw a mana excellerator (though I know there are a few other cards), and I would rather just run another mana excellerator.
I'm gonna have to disagree here. Not only does it stand-in as mana-accelerator if you draw those; it untaps Nevinyrral's Disk so it can be used on turn one, it helps you to add fate counters by untapping Oblivion Stone, and it gives all your big artifact-dudes vigilance for 1 mana. And in a pinch, it can untap Helm of Obedience so you can use your mana in two shots, so you don't spend too much if you get a creature on the first use. It can also untap Kuldotha Forgemaster for insane plays in late game, as well as for having him ready to attack/block after use.
Voltaic Key is a strong card... also in this deck.
Now, for a few more points:
Wayfarer's Bauble should be cut in favor of Expedition Map. It fetches ANY land in your deck, not just a basic land. If you dislike it because it doesn't accel enough, there are still better choices than Wayfarer's, such as Darksteel Ingot. I might actually consider including both. And what about Mox Opal? How often do you have Metalcraft in this deck? Enough to consider other Metalcraft-cards?
Chrome Mox is another strong choice, but it can be a hassle in EDH, and is a might expensive.
On another note, Skullclamp is good in this deck. I'm not gonna run it since it's banned in my playgroup (so is Sensei's Divining Top), but you should consider it!
Moar card-draw is always the bomb. There's a reason Harmonize is a staple in EDH! Though perhaps we're missing some artifact-draw that you can fetch from the graveyard... How about Mind Stone for example? Also, where is Sylvan Library?
God damn Mana Crypt is strong in this deck... Not really a suggestion, just an observation. Same goes for Scrabbling Claws, although I might consider running Tormod's Crypt instead. How has Scrabbling Claws worked out for you during testing? Does it draw you lots of cards, or do you always target something else with Glissa's ability?
As for the hard part, what to cut:
I think Sorin Markov is worthy of consideration. Yeah, he's strong, but when I look down your list, I'm thinking: "I'd much rather draw this than Sorin." The only exception is your mana accel, which sometimes you don't want to draw, but I don't think you should take any of that out.
I don't think you need Fierce Empath either. I'm not sure you need a fetcher on that spot at all, but if you do, there are other creature-tutors more worthy of consideration. And I'd hate drawing Fierce when I got the creatures I need.
I'm not sure you need Krosan Tusker that bad either.
If you allow me, I'll post my suggestion for the Glissa-deck in this thread when I'm done? We can debate the decks alongside each other?
Krosan Tusker - Hmm, I guess I've always just liked Tusker ever since Onslaught (I played W/R/G Astral Slide). Though I agree it's probably too small an effect for a 2 color EDH deck
Fierce Emapth - I was on the verge of cutting empath, I agree he's not the strongest, his only redeeming quality is that all my fat costs 6 or more, so it can tutor up any of them. Though I agree it's one of the weaker cards in the deck
Sorin Markov - I disagree with Sorin, there have been a great many games in my life that I only won because I stole the game out of nowhere through either Sorin or Magister Sphinx.
Mana Crypt - Absolutely amazing, I run (my 1 copy) in every EDH deck I have.
Harmonize - I like, but it's not my absolute favorite card, though if you suggest a good card to cut for it...
Skullclamp - I'm not sure I have enough creatures in my deck to make this worthwhile, token decks (my favorite being Endrek Sahr) are really the decks I find them most useful in.
Chrome Mox - Eh, this deck isn't trying to win turn 4-5, so I figure the gain in speed isn't worth the card disadvantage.
Expedition Map - Very good, I will find a place for this.
Darksteel Ingot - Eh, it costs 3 and only excels 1, cards like Mind Stone are far better (Especially since I haven't run into any color screw issues)
Mind Stone - I like Mind Stone, it probably deserves a spot
Sylvan Library - I'm not the biggest fan of the card, I know it's good and should be included, but I just haven't been able to yet bring myself to include it.
Mox Opal - I don't often enough have it to make it better than other mana excellerators (certainly not 3 by turn 2-3 where it is better than other excellerators).
So I've got:
- Krosan Tusker
- Fierce Empath
- Armillary Sphere (map is essentially a better version of the same card)
+ Expedition Map
+ Mind Stone
+ Helm of Obedience
As a side note, I would absolutely love for you to post your list, would be nice to see / compare.
Harmonize - I like, but it's not my absolute favorite card, though if you suggest a good card to cut for it...
The more I ponder on it, the more I think you should run this card. It is insanely good in EDH. At least try playtesting with it.
Skullclamp - I'm not sure I have enough creatures in my deck to make this worthwhile, token decks (my favorite being Endrek Sahr) are really the decks I find them most useful in.
While it's true that Skullclamp is most easily broken in a Token-deck that is far from its only usage. Any creature-deck should have it. Yours is not a creature-deck, but your recurring theme might make it worthwhile anyway. Glissa herself is almost enough to run it; whenever she gets shot, stabbed, murdered, or bolted (and she will be all of this, lots and lots), there's two cards for you!
Darksteel Ingot - Eh, it costs 3 and only excels 1, cards like Mind Stone are far better (Especially since I haven't run into any color screw issues)
There is a reason Darksteel Ingot is in the top30 staples in EDH. Most everybody places the card. It's brilliant mana-fixing, and most importantly; it resists the ton of ench/arti-hate in the meta.
However, upon consideration I don't think you should play it... Your artifact-recursion makes other cards stronger.
Sylvan Library - I'm not the biggest fan of the card, I know it's good and should be included, but I just haven't been able to yet bring myself to include it.
I hate to say it, but I feel about Sylvan Library like I do about Sensei's Divining top:
Can you run it? Yes.
Then you should run it.
It's Sensei's ability for free, each draw step, with the addition of Pay 4 life: Draw a card a maximum of two times. Trust me, you will not be sorry including this card. It is worth taking out anything for.
Normally I wouldn't take out Armillary Sphere, since it searches for two. But again, with your recursion, maybe it just isn't necessary...
So I have been excited about Glissa for a while, and my initial thought with her was to run a bunch of artifacts that sacrifice themselves to do things, plus lots of effects like Innocent blood and Barter in Blood to get them back. Things like all 4 spell bombs, explorer's map, wayfarer's and conjuror's baubles, etc.
The spellbombs seem like the could be really solid. At the very least, they cycle, but then Lifespark can give you new targets to kill, which also gives you Land destruction. Necrotic is reusable hand destruction (more useful in 1v1). Nihil is just really solid in any EDH format, and the new green one is mana accel.
I feel like your general needs to be able to be abused the turn she comes down, so some cheap artifacts, dredge, and destruction spells seem really key. My plan was to Mindslaver them out, or recur guys like Trike/Razormane/Wurmcoil for the win.
What do you guys think about a small bauble package to give you some nice tricks/cards to cycle through. Innocent blood and Barter in Blood seem so good for Glissa, allowing regrowths of like 6-10 cards in multiplayer.
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The spellbombs seem like the could be really solid. At the very least, they cycle, but then Lifespark can give you new targets to kill, which also gives you Land destruction. Necrotic is reusable hand destruction (more useful in 1v1). Nihil is just really solid in any EDH format, and the new green one is mana accel.
The problem with the spellbombs is simply the limited space in an EDH deck. With just ~62 cards (38 land), you only have so much space. For every spellbomb you run, you have to cut an (albeit more expensive) better card. As a though experiment, compare Courier's Capsule (which you can't run) with Memory Jar. While the capsule's effect is cheaper / quicker than Memory Jar's, it impacts the game significantly less, 'draw 2' is way worse than 'draw 7', and the main reason to run cheap cards is to play them before you die, however as EDH is the king of the long game (aka No viable aggro...), you can afford to pay a little more mana for 'larger' spells.
Mana Excelleration may be the only exception to this, as it allows you to get to your bigger spells faster. Oh, and (I think) the new green spellbomb puts the land into your hand (not play), and thus is mostly just good for fixing. Expedition Map, Armillary Sphere, and Wayfarer's Bauble are all better.
Finally, turn 3-4, many opponents will have 0 creatures in play, so it's not as vital to have artifacts in your graveyard for glissa to target
I feel like your general needs to be able to be abused the turn she comes down, so some cheap artifacts, dredge, and destruction spells seem really key. My plan was to Mindslaver them out, or recur guys like Trike/Razormane/Wurmcoil for the win.
Dredge is good (I even started off with it in my deck), it just runs into the same problem that the spellbombs face, they're not good enough / big enough effects for EDH, putting the top 5 cards in your graveyard 2-3 times over the game isn't significant enough to justify 3 for a 1/2 flying deathtouch. In addition, almost every EDH deck runs a 'remove target graveyard from the game' card (and a way to tutor it up), so often dredging isn't super good.
What do you guys think about a small bauble package to give you some nice tricks/cards to cycle through. Innocent blood and Barter in Blood seem so good for Glissa, allowing regrowths of like 6-10 cards in multiplayer.
sac effects are GOOD, but for 1 more mana, you get 3x Edict effects (in leu of Innocent Blood), so I would upgrade to those, though if you're primarily playing 3-5 person multiplayer, I understand Innocent Blood - though if you do it too much, you're going to start to get hated on.
I just realized.... I'm NOT running Necropotence.... I feel like a failure, this is infinately better than ALL other draw in MTG, especially with 2x life... I'll have to make room for this first (BBBisn't hard to get with only 2 colors and lots of excelleration / fixing)
If you can think of a card to cut for it though, please suggest (I'm just starting to find doing this more and more difficult)
While it's true that Skullclamp is most easily broken in a Token-deck that is far from its only usage. Any creature-deck should have it. Yours is not a creature-deck, but your recurring theme might make it worthwhile anyway. Glissa herself is almost enough to run it; whenever she gets shot, stabbed, murdered, or bolted (and she will be all of this, lots and lots), there's two cards for you!
Same as harmonize, I'll have to try it out though. I like most the ability to turn glissa from a 7 turn clock to a 5 turn clock (almost doable)...
There is a reason Darksteel Ingot is in the top30 staples in EDH. Most everybody places the card. It's brilliant mana-fixing, and most importantly; it resists the ton of ench/arti-hate in the meta.
However, upon consideration I don't think you should play it... Your artifact-recursion makes other cards stronger.
my thoughts exactly
I hate to say it, but I feel about Sylvan Library like I do about Sensei's Divining top:
Normally I wouldn't take out Armillary Sphere, since it searches for two. But again, with your recursion, maybe it just isn't necessary...
I'll find a spot to test Sylvan Library out with (though one of the best features of Spinny Top - which Sylvan Library lacks - is that it can protect itself). I haven't had time to really test it, but I think that netting the extra land each recursion cycle isn't really necessary (simply because I can recur it)
I've tested Sylvan Library now, in my version of the deck. My deck has none of your alternative win combos in form of Phyrexian Devourer and Hexmage+Depths, but is otherwise similar. It substitutes this with some more fat in the form of Lord of Extinction and Spiritmonger and some more tricks like Grim Feast. Especially the latter has turned out to be amazing. In games that go into late game it makes the life-loss from Phyrexian Arena and other cards that make you lose life irrelevant. It's got me thinking that there might other cards you can abuse it with... Like Sylvan Library, which is amazing on its own, but with Grim Feast it straight out wins you games.
It needs some protection to be competitive though... It's a vulnerable card. BUT, if it dies, it doesn't leave you behind; it just makes it so you can abuse already abusale cards less.
Think about it with Necropotence!!! Jesus what a beating.
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Personally I'm a big fan of Lure in the new Glissa decks. Slap that on her and swing to first strike + deathtouch a number of creatures equal to her power.
There is also an equipment that does the Lure effect though its name escapes me at the moment. But you get the idea though.
Personally I'm a big fan of Lure in the new Glissa decks. Slap that on her and swing to first strike + deathtouch a number of creatures equal to her power.
There is also an equipment that does the Lure effect though its name escapes me at the moment. But you get the idea though.
I like her, she seems like a good beater card that can turn combo if you get cornered.
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I just realized.... I'm NOT running Necropotence.... I feel like a failure, this is infinately better than ALL other draw in MTG, especially with 2x life... I'll have to make room for this first (BBBisn't hard to get with only 2 colors and lots of excelleration / fixing)
...... Is banned? As well as mindslaver, sol ring, and sensei's divining top
Also, since you have an ooze combo and are relatively GY based with some nicefatties, I would seriously find room for:
Entomb (also amazing with LftL)
Reanimate
Animate Dead (both of these can hit your opponents yard as well and make for some out of the blue Sundering Titan shenanigans)
And I would highly suggest:
Terrastodon
Metal Worker (with the amount of artifacts you have how cam you not?)
Also card that seem week or meh:
Sprarbreaker
Vigor
thornbite staff
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...... Is banned? As well as mindslaver, sol ring, and sensei's divining top
Depends on which banned list he is using. Top is legal on MTGS but not the French list. Mindslaver, Sol Ring and Necropotence are banned on both lists, though.
Depends on which banned list he is using. Top is legal on MTGS but not the French list. Mindslaver, Sol Ring and Necropotence are banned on both lists, though.
Seems to allow Mindslaver, Solring and Potence, as well as Top.
That's the one!
Though it doesn't allow metalworker, which is a real shame.
In regards to other comments, I agree that Sprarbreaker and Vigor have both been underwhelming. I may try out Sylvan Library and Terrastodon in their place. Thornbite Staff has been awesome however as it is just amazing with Glissa + artifact recursion.
In addition, I may test with all three: Entomb, Reanimate, and Animate Dead, though with all my graveyard recursion, I don't know how useful the latter two will be. Though entomb > LftL seems good.
I tried Nemesis Mask and the problem was if my opponent wanted to keep a creature around he just tapped it (attacked or used an activated ability - mostly the latter), and I could only really hit creatures with summoning sickness.
I've often considered adding Rancor and being able to voltron with her, but we'll see.
if you are going to use the Helm you might as well put in Layline of the Void, having both out at the same time mills out a players deck with 1 mana...i use in in my Glissa deck and its just funnnnnn lol
if you are going to use the Helm you might as well put in Layline of the Void, having both out at the same time mills out a players deck with 1 mana...i use in in my Glissa deck and its just funnnnnn lol
I honestly have no idea why he'd want to add Leyline of the Void, considering he WANTS creatures to hit the graveyard because of Glissa's recursion ability.
[/SPOILER]
Ok so I threw this together immediately after Glissa spoiled and have been testing it out / likely making frequent updates to it. With Glissa, I wasn't sure if I should go tribal or not (could include stuff like Call to the Grave for Zombies or any of the 10,000 elf cards). I've looked at some of the forum posts on Glissa, and decided to go more of an artifact control deck.
The obvious (Glissa) combos with the deck are:
Neverral's Disc, Oblivion Stone
Plague Boiler, executioner's capsule, these nuke creatures / the field and recur over and over. In addition, Memory Jar is amazing, and the combo for the win is Mindslaver.
I had thrown in a little bit of dredge to try to fill my graveyard and find various artifacts, however, it got the cut after some playtesting.
With forbidden orchard, you can ensure an infinite supply of creatures and combo off with Mindslaver. And because of life from the loam and Glissa, it's easy to recur the combo if it makes it was to the graveyard via Jar, dredge, or the opponents disruption (also life from the loam is great with wasteland / stripmine).
Anyway, here's the deck, it needs some work and any input would be great!:
1 Glissa, the Traitor
Removal (8)
1 Grave Pact
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Putrefy
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Mind Twist
1 Mind Shatter
1 Damnation
Utility (4)
1 Life from the loam
1 Dosan the Falling Leaf
1 Hermit Druid
1 Helm of Obedience
Planeswalkers (3)
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Liliana
1 Sorin Markov
Mana Excelleration / Fixing (2)
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
Utility - Artifacts (4)
1 Mindslaver
1 Scrabbling Claws
1 Mimic Vat
1 Lightning Greaves
Removal - Artifacts (8)
1 Plague Boiler
1 Smokestack
1 Neverral's Disc
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Thornbite Staff
1 Viridian Longbow
1 Duplicant
1 Memory Jar
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Spinny Top
Mana Excel. / Fixing - Artifacts (10)
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Coalition Relic
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Dreamstone hedron
1 Mind Stone
1 Expedition Map
Draw / Tutor (9)
1 Necropotence
1 Sylvan Library
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Promise of Power
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Survival of the fittest
Creatures - Artifact (6)
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Sundering Titan
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Treskellion
1 phyrexian devourer
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Creatures (7)
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Vigor
1 Genesis
1 Primeval Titan
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 spearbreaker behemoth
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Verdant Catercombs
1 Twilight Mire
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
10 Forest
6 Swamp
1 Tree of Tales
1 Vault of the Whispers
1 Dark Depths
1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1 bayou
1 Urborg
1 Bojuka Bog
Again, any suggestions would be much appreciated.
As a couple of side notes:
Cards That were cut:
Edits to the deck:
[spoiler]
- Butcher of Malakir
+ Necrotic Ooze
Butcher is super slow, easy to remove, and does;n't really affect the board in most games (I've discovered). Necrotic Ooze was actually in the deck but accidently cut, it's the win of the combo Survival of the Fittest --> Treskillion (graveyard) --> Phrexian Devourer (graveyard) --> Necrotic Ooze FTW.
- Darksteel Colossus
+ Blightsteel Colossus (as soon as I get one!)
An easy upgrade (1 more mana for killing an opponent 4x as fast
- Natural Order
+ Wayfarer's Bauble
There aren't really any great Natural Order targets (Spearbreaker Behemoth and Primeval Titan) and I would rather just have early mana excelleration and fixing (that's recyclable).
- Acidic Slime
+ Smokestack
Smokestack is really good at controlling the board + as with Tangle Wire, you choose the order the effects go off, which can save be awesome. + whatever you sac may well be recurrable with Glissa, so I'm a big fan. Acidic Slime is good, but I've got a whole bunch of 'wipe the board' effects already, as well as land destruction.
- Krosan Tusker
- Fierce Empath
- Armillary Sphere (map is essentially a better version of the same card)
+ Expedition Map
+ Mind Stone
+ Helm of Obedience
(see thread reading)
- Swamp
- Scrabbling Claws
+ Bojuka Bog
+ Necropotence
+ Sylvan Library
(Best card draw ever + my online list was off and there was a card extra!)
[/spoiler]
Thanks for reading all this!
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
I realise Spiritmonger might be too little in sync with the rest of the deck, but it's just an awesome beater. And Grave Titan certainly seems to fit; his token-generation can be useful when you need something to sacrifice in a pinch.
Why the Vampire Hexmage + Dark Depths combo? It seems to be included by arbitrary reasons. No denying it's sheer effectiveness, but it seems out of place...
I'll follow this deck with interest - I'm in the process of making a Glissa-deck for EDH myself.
EDIT: ALMOST forgot the most important thing! Darksteel Colossus is sooooooo yesterday... Definetely substitute him for Blightsteel Colossus.
EDIT2: This deck needs moar Voltaic Key.
Spiritmonger is good, but I've ended up cutting lots of good beaters just simply because it didn't affect the board position enough.
Grave titan is very good, I might have included him if I owned a copy, but I wouldn't want to spend $20 (most of the money cards in the deck I already owned). Though I do feel he's an underperformer in EDH considering the 40 life.
an easy upgrade
I think it only really helps when I draw a mana excellerator (though I know there are a few other cards), and I would rather just run another mana excellerator.
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
He's just a mean sunuva*****, immune to most everything. In a deck that can recur... Well, as I said, I understand he reasoning for not including him though.
The main reason for his inclusion in this deck would be the token-generation. But I certainly see the money-reason.
This I get, from a competitive standpoint. I personally dislike that kindda stuff in EDH though (not having it used against me; I just think it's boring to play).
I'm gonna have to disagree here. Not only does it stand-in as mana-accelerator if you draw those; it untaps Nevinyrral's Disk so it can be used on turn one, it helps you to add fate counters by untapping Oblivion Stone, and it gives all your big artifact-dudes vigilance for 1 mana. And in a pinch, it can untap Helm of Obedience so you can use your mana in two shots, so you don't spend too much if you get a creature on the first use. It can also untap Kuldotha Forgemaster for insane plays in late game, as well as for having him ready to attack/block after use.
Voltaic Key is a strong card... also in this deck.
Now, for a few more points:
Wayfarer's Bauble should be cut in favor of Expedition Map. It fetches ANY land in your deck, not just a basic land. If you dislike it because it doesn't accel enough, there are still better choices than Wayfarer's, such as Darksteel Ingot. I might actually consider including both. And what about Mox Opal? How often do you have Metalcraft in this deck? Enough to consider other Metalcraft-cards?
Chrome Mox is another strong choice, but it can be a hassle in EDH, and is a might expensive.
On another note, Skullclamp is good in this deck. I'm not gonna run it since it's banned in my playgroup (so is Sensei's Divining Top), but you should consider it!
Moar card-draw is always the bomb. There's a reason Harmonize is a staple in EDH! Though perhaps we're missing some artifact-draw that you can fetch from the graveyard... How about Mind Stone for example? Also, where is Sylvan Library?
God damn Mana Crypt is strong in this deck... Not really a suggestion, just an observation. Same goes for Scrabbling Claws, although I might consider running Tormod's Crypt instead. How has Scrabbling Claws worked out for you during testing? Does it draw you lots of cards, or do you always target something else with Glissa's ability?
As for the hard part, what to cut:
I think Sorin Markov is worthy of consideration. Yeah, he's strong, but when I look down your list, I'm thinking: "I'd much rather draw this than Sorin." The only exception is your mana accel, which sometimes you don't want to draw, but I don't think you should take any of that out.
I don't think you need Fierce Empath either. I'm not sure you need a fetcher on that spot at all, but if you do, there are other creature-tutors more worthy of consideration. And I'd hate drawing Fierce when I got the creatures I need.
I'm not sure you need Krosan Tusker that bad either.
If you allow me, I'll post my suggestion for the Glissa-deck in this thread when I'm done? We can debate the decks alongside each other?
So I'm going to just go through the cards here:
- Krosan Tusker - Hmm, I guess I've always just liked Tusker ever since Onslaught (I played W/R/G Astral Slide). Though I agree it's probably too small an effect for a 2 color EDH deck
- Fierce Emapth - I was on the verge of cutting empath, I agree he's not the strongest, his only redeeming quality is that all my fat costs 6 or more, so it can tutor up any of them. Though I agree it's one of the weaker cards in the deck
- Sorin Markov - I disagree with Sorin, there have been a great many games in my life that I only won because I stole the game out of nowhere through either Sorin or Magister Sphinx.
- Mana Crypt - Absolutely amazing, I run (my 1 copy) in every EDH deck I have.
- Harmonize - I like, but it's not my absolute favorite card, though if you suggest a good card to cut for it...
- Skullclamp - I'm not sure I have enough creatures in my deck to make this worthwhile, token decks (my favorite being Endrek Sahr) are really the decks I find them most useful in.
- Chrome Mox - Eh, this deck isn't trying to win turn 4-5, so I figure the gain in speed isn't worth the card disadvantage.
- Expedition Map - Very good, I will find a place for this.
- Darksteel Ingot - Eh, it costs 3 and only excels 1, cards like Mind Stone are far better (Especially since I haven't run into any color screw issues)
- Mind Stone - I like Mind Stone, it probably deserves a spot
- Sylvan Library - I'm not the biggest fan of the card, I know it's good and should be included, but I just haven't been able to yet bring myself to include it.
- Mox Opal - I don't often enough have it to make it better than other mana excellerators (certainly not 3 by turn 2-3 where it is better than other excellerators).
So I've got:- Krosan Tusker
- Fierce Empath
- Armillary Sphere (map is essentially a better version of the same card)
+ Expedition Map
+ Mind Stone
+ Helm of Obedience
As a side note, I would absolutely love for you to post your list, would be nice to see / compare.
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
The more I ponder on it, the more I think you should run this card. It is insanely good in EDH. At least try playtesting with it.
While it's true that Skullclamp is most easily broken in a Token-deck that is far from its only usage. Any creature-deck should have it. Yours is not a creature-deck, but your recurring theme might make it worthwhile anyway. Glissa herself is almost enough to run it; whenever she gets shot, stabbed, murdered, or bolted (and she will be all of this, lots and lots), there's two cards for you!
There is a reason Darksteel Ingot is in the top30 staples in EDH. Most everybody places the card. It's brilliant mana-fixing, and most importantly; it resists the ton of ench/arti-hate in the meta.
However, upon consideration I don't think you should play it... Your artifact-recursion makes other cards stronger.
I hate to say it, but I feel about Sylvan Library like I do about Sensei's Divining top:
Can you run it? Yes.
Then you should run it.
It's Sensei's ability for free, each draw step, with the addition of Pay 4 life: Draw a card a maximum of two times. Trust me, you will not be sorry including this card. It is worth taking out anything for.
Normally I wouldn't take out Armillary Sphere, since it searches for two. But again, with your recursion, maybe it just isn't necessary...
The spellbombs seem like the could be really solid. At the very least, they cycle, but then Lifespark can give you new targets to kill, which also gives you Land destruction. Necrotic is reusable hand destruction (more useful in 1v1). Nihil is just really solid in any EDH format, and the new green one is mana accel.
I feel like your general needs to be able to be abused the turn she comes down, so some cheap artifacts, dredge, and destruction spells seem really key. My plan was to Mindslaver them out, or recur guys like Trike/Razormane/Wurmcoil for the win.
What do you guys think about a small bauble package to give you some nice tricks/cards to cycle through. Innocent blood and Barter in Blood seem so good for Glissa, allowing regrowths of like 6-10 cards in multiplayer.
Commander Decks:
WBRQueen Marchesa's Powerful FriendsRBW
URArjun, Mindmoil SphinxRU
GFreyalise and the ElvesG
GROmnath, Ramping to RageRG
UBaral, Chef of CounterspellsU
The problem with the spellbombs is simply the limited space in an EDH deck. With just ~62 cards (38 land), you only have so much space. For every spellbomb you run, you have to cut an (albeit more expensive) better card. As a though experiment, compare Courier's Capsule (which you can't run) with Memory Jar. While the capsule's effect is cheaper / quicker than Memory Jar's, it impacts the game significantly less, 'draw 2' is way worse than 'draw 7', and the main reason to run cheap cards is to play them before you die, however as EDH is the king of the long game (aka No viable aggro...), you can afford to pay a little more mana for 'larger' spells.
Mana Excelleration may be the only exception to this, as it allows you to get to your bigger spells faster. Oh, and (I think) the new green spellbomb puts the land into your hand (not play), and thus is mostly just good for fixing. Expedition Map, Armillary Sphere, and Wayfarer's Bauble are all better.
Finally, turn 3-4, many opponents will have 0 creatures in play, so it's not as vital to have artifacts in your graveyard for glissa to target
Dredge is good (I even started off with it in my deck), it just runs into the same problem that the spellbombs face, they're not good enough / big enough effects for EDH, putting the top 5 cards in your graveyard 2-3 times over the game isn't significant enough to justify 3 for a 1/2 flying deathtouch. In addition, almost every EDH deck runs a 'remove target graveyard from the game' card (and a way to tutor it up), so often dredging isn't super good.
sac effects are GOOD, but for 1 more mana, you get 3x Edict effects (in leu of Innocent Blood), so I would upgrade to those, though if you're primarily playing 3-5 person multiplayer, I understand Innocent Blood - though if you do it too much, you're going to start to get hated on.
---------------------------------------
The only thing is that all my other draw is far better:
Memory Jar - Draw 7 recurrible
Spinny Top - Fix card draw for rest of the game
Phyrexian Arena - +1/turn forever
Promise of Power - Draw 5 > Draw 3
Survival of the fittest - ... Nuf said
Sylvan Library - You've already argued this well.
I just realized.... I'm NOT running Necropotence.... I feel like a failure, this is infinately better than ALL other draw in MTG, especially with 2x life... I'll have to make room for this first (BBBisn't hard to get with only 2 colors and lots of excelleration / fixing)
If you can think of a card to cut for it though, please suggest (I'm just starting to find doing this more and more difficult)
Same as harmonize, I'll have to try it out though. I like most the ability to turn glissa from a 7 turn clock to a 5 turn clock (almost doable)...
my thoughts exactly
I'll find a spot to test Sylvan Library out with (though one of the best features of Spinny Top - which Sylvan Library lacks - is that it can protect itself). I haven't had time to really test it, but I think that netting the extra land each recursion cycle isn't really necessary (simply because I can recur it)
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
It needs some protection to be competitive though... It's a vulnerable card. BUT, if it dies, it doesn't leave you behind; it just makes it so you can abuse already abusale cards less.
Think about it with Necropotence!!! Jesus what a beating.
Commander Decks:
WBRQueen Marchesa's Powerful FriendsRBW
URArjun, Mindmoil SphinxRU
GFreyalise and the ElvesG
GROmnath, Ramping to RageRG
UBaral, Chef of CounterspellsU
There is also an equipment that does the Lure effect though its name escapes me at the moment. But you get the idea though.
That's what I was working on today:
Magnetic Web and Grappling Hook are targeted. Nemesis Mask, Gift of the Deity and Seton's Desire are All in.
Dreams are getting either Rancor or Loxodon Warhammer on her at the same time as Grappling Hook.
I like her, she seems like a good beater card that can turn combo if you get cornered.
...... Is banned? As well as mindslaver, sol ring, and sensei's divining top
Also, since you have an ooze combo and are relatively GY based with some nicefatties, I would seriously find room for:
Entomb (also amazing with LftL)
Reanimate
Animate Dead (both of these can hit your opponents yard as well and make for some out of the blue Sundering Titan shenanigans)
And I would highly suggest:
Terrastodon
Metal Worker (with the amount of artifacts you have how cam you not?)
Also card that seem week or meh:
Sprarbreaker
Vigor
thornbite staff
Maverick -- Storm
Click here for trade threadTrade thread under reconstruction.
Because you can't spell slaughter without laughter.
Depends on which banned list he is using. Top is legal on MTGS but not the French list. Mindslaver, Sol Ring and Necropotence are banned on both lists, though.
OP, which banned list are you using?
MTGSalvation 1v1 EDH Community Members List
http://mtgcommander.net/rules.php ?
Seems to allow Mindslaver, Solring and Potence, as well as Top.
That's the one!
Though it doesn't allow metalworker, which is a real shame.
In regards to other comments, I agree that Sprarbreaker and Vigor have both been underwhelming. I may try out Sylvan Library and Terrastodon in their place. Thornbite Staff has been awesome however as it is just amazing with Glissa + artifact recursion.
In addition, I may test with all three: Entomb, Reanimate, and Animate Dead, though with all my graveyard recursion, I don't know how useful the latter two will be. Though entomb > LftL seems good.
I tried Nemesis Mask and the problem was if my opponent wanted to keep a creature around he just tapped it (attacked or used an activated ability - mostly the latter), and I could only really hit creatures with summoning sickness.
I've often considered adding Rancor and being able to voltron with her, but we'll see.
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
It's somewhat less competitive because I haven't included "cheap" win-combos, and has more fat. Otherwise it's fairly similar
I honestly have no idea why he'd want to add Leyline of the Void, considering he WANTS creatures to hit the graveyard because of Glissa's recursion ability.
1. X Karn, Silver Golem X
2. GWU Derevi, Empyrial Tactician GWU