MTG Salvation

This is the newest deck I've built, I've tried making Tibor and Lumia work so many times, and this is the first time it does. Blue is still my weakest color to work with, so all advice is welcome. Of all the decks I've built, this is the one I've wanted for the longest time, and this is my current brain child. As it sits the deck isn't usually the strongest or fastest at the table, but everyone who thought this decks lack of things happening during my turn meant I was going to be the easy one to take out last has been nothing less than surprised every time.

Burn, copy, and steal effects about sum this deck up, with a big emphasis on the first two. SuperSonik put it best, or at least the way I like to think of the deck, when he described his take on the deck as haphazardly assembling a rickety death-ray.

I don't know, it could be the flavor of the deck/colors I enjoy, or doing things with the colors I've always wanted to do, but hadn't found a good way to put together until now.

Currently my bad match up is usually aggro, and usually only in one on one.



Many of the cards selected are either with utility in mind, or re-useability. Most of the burn is strong enough to take out what I need to, some doubles as draw, and a lot of it comes with ways of reusing. The graveyard specific cards are mostly there to get cards from the yard to my hand, or at least give me a chance to cast them a second time. Currently I run a very low number of non land permanents, which has made many wrath effects and board wipes pretty useless against me...though LD still hurts.

How exactly does an Izzet Guildmage copy Urza's Rage?

I'd check out Blackjack's Guide to building EDH decks for some more advice. Among other things, he'll explain why things like Lightning Bolt and Incinerate are unplayable.

Wow, I totally misplayed on the izzy rage...wont be doing that a second time.

Thanks for posting EDIT: And thanks for the plug on top of your page!

I may as well sig this sometime because I find myself repeating it Ad Nauseam: Don't bring a frying pan to a gunfight. Your deck is sort of begging to be run over by Primeval Titan and friends, but that's OK because it doesn't mean it can't work- you'll just have to shore up your weaknesses a bit.

I am going to assume that you know this and are just convinced you want to abuse Izzet Guildmage, Fork and the like, which is perfectly acceptable and sounds downright hilarious. With that in mind, I'm just going to offer up some alternate card choices and strategy points.

I think it would be a good idea to narrow your focus a little bit and focus on instants or sorceries that cost two mana or less. That way, you can abuse the Izzet Guildmage and Isochron Scepter. This will mean cutting some of the 3 and 4-mana frying pans like Flame Fulsillade and Yamabushi's Flame.

Speaking of which, Isochron Scepter. Slap a fork on that baby (or a swerve! or a counterspell!) and you're good to go! Play this card. Don't forget Voltaic Key or Mind over Matter to abuse it further.

Here's some copy/redirect/just plain useful effects you should consider:

• Echo Mage (I'll assume you just forgot him, lol)
  
• Ricochet Trap (I'll just borrow that time stretch there)
  
• Gamble (This card is an autoinclude in red)
  
• Knowledge Exploitation (it is any spell you want, basically)
  
• Blatant Thievery (a worse Knowledge Exploitation, haha)
  
• Darksteel Plate (lets the guildmage and T+L live through wraths and T+L's red ability)
  
• Fabricate (lets you tutor for scepter)
  
• Tezzeret the Seeker (ditto)
  
• Future Sight (the most powerful card advantage engine in all of magic outside Necropotence)

Note that you will also need a ton of card draw to offset the very real possibility you'll be dumping your hand every turn. In addition to sorcery-based stuff like Recurring Insight and Mind Spring, you'll also want incremental stuff like Rhystic Study, Future Sight and Mind's Eye. C. Ablaze is good too for her minus ability.

I was going to post a bunch of 2-mana-or-less spells that would be good for you, but I'll wait to see if you wanna go that way before I vomit them all over your thread. And as far as the general concept of your deck goes, you'll have to ask yourself if you'd rather be copying Incinerate or Time Stretch with all those copy effects.

Hopefully you get some ideas here dude and good luck with the deck!

As a side note, it's a shame Djinn Illuminatus isn't Legendary. I think he'd make a fine general.

Amen SirDanFortesque, I've never had the card when I wanted to.

I don't know why Ricochet Trap didn't make it into the deck, and most of what you listed was or is in the deck...or at least on the table for consideration. In the end I think I just didn't have a specific direction to point myself in, and tried to cover more than I needed to.

Hit me with some 2 drops, I'm sure there's plenty I either forgot or just couldn't think of.

Ok then here goes (not going to check if you have all these or not, and I will try to put the good ones on top):

• Counterspell
  
• Mystical Tutor
  
• Gamble
  
• Muddle the Mixture (the transmute is important!)
  
• Swerve
  
• Ancestral Vision
  
• Twincast
  
• Fork
  
• Reverberate
  
• Ricochet Trap
  
• Fire // Ice
  
• Arcane Denial
  
• Remand
  
• Lightning Bolt
  
• Gigadrowse
  
• Shattering Spree
  
• Shattering Pulse
  
• Into the Roil
  
• Boomerang
  

There are probably plenty more but you'll have to search the database. Copying Ancestral Vision on resolution would be pretty nuts.

This style of deck in EDH is a unique challenge to build successfully. Normal rules about deck construction don't really apply because you're sort of throwing your card advantage out the window with lots of cheap spells, so you'll have to work and/or test extra hard to figure out the right combination of "frying pans" and CA generators, in addition to just having a defense against creature strategies.

funny, I own almost all of that, except fire & ice, Arcane Denial, Remand, Gigadrowse...and into the Roil. like almost all of it.

Wonder if a deck focusing on lower casting costs like you're talking about could work very well...could always throw the rest of the retrieve from GY wizards back in the deck.

I'll get to play the deck, unaltered, today for the second time, built it last night and tried it once before family time with the future wife.

If you play those wizards don't forget Riptide Laboratory. I just added to my deck (plays so nice with Venser and friends!) and I love it already.

My Venser's are in the mail, and I suppose with what I enjoy doing in UR it's an auto include...especially with Anarchist, Scrivener, and friends.

Forgot to add- Training Grounds straight up breaks Izzet Guildmage.

Changes I'm going to try later

Adding

• 1 Ancestral Vision
  
• 1 Riptide Laboratory
  
• 1 Muddle the Mixture
  
• 1 Mirror Sheen
  
• 1 Preordain
  
• 1 Lightning Bolt
  
• 1 Lightning Blast
  
• 1 Magma Jet
  
• 1 Fire/Ice
  
• 1 Darksteel Plate
  
• 1 Perilous Research
  
• 1 Think Twice
  
• 1 Telling Time
  
• 1 Echo Mage
  
• 1 Isochron Scepter
  
• 1 Anarchist
  
• 1 Scrivener
  
• 1 Gamble
  
• 1 Muddle the Mixture
  
• 1 Tezzeret the Seeker
  
• 1 Redirect
  
• 1 Boomerang
  

Removing

• 1 Bribery
  
• 1 Nucklavee
  
• 1 Rite of Replication
  
• 1 Journeyer's Kite
  
• 1 Recurring Insight
  
• 1 Suffocating Blast
  
• 1 Redirect
  
• 1 Cerebral Eruption
  
• 1 Parallectric Feedback
  
• 1 Spiraling Embers
  
• 1 Mizzium Transreliquat
  
• 1 Island
  
• 1 Dominus of Fealty
  
• 1 Suffocation Blast
  
• 1 Mulldrifter
  
• 1 Riddle of Lightning
  
• 1 Flame Fusillade
  
• 1 Stuffy Doll
  
• 1 Fact or Fiction
  
• 1 Merchant Scroll
  
• 1 Spin into Myth
  
• 1 Hinder
  

I need more burn...

Played the new deck earlier and it was awsome, not sure if people weren't paying attention to me because of the general or what but things got way out of hand real quick.

Quote from tompkinsd6

Changes I'm going to try later

Adding

• 1 Ancestral Vision
  
• 1 Riptide Laboratory
  
• 1 Muddle the Mixture
  
• 1 Mirror Sheen
  
• 1 Preordain
  
• 1 Lightning Bolt
  
• 1 Lightning Blast
  
• 1 Magma Jet
  
• 1 Fire/Ice
  
• 1 Darksteel Plate
  
• 1 Perilous Research
  
• 1 Think Twice
  
• 1 Telling Time
  
• 1 Echo Mage
  
• 1 Isochron Scepter
  
• 1 Anarchist
  
• 1 Scrivener
  
• 1 Gamble
  
• 1 Muddle the Mixture
  
• 1 Tezzeret the Seeker
  
• 1 Redirect
  
• 1 Boomerang
  

Removing

• 1 Bribery
  
• 1 Nucklavee
  
• 1 Rite of Replication
  
• 1 Journeyer's Kite
  
• 1 Recurring Insight
  
• 1 Suffocating Blast
  
• 1 Redirect
  
• 1 Cerebral Eruption
  
• 1 Parallectric Feedback
  
• 1 Spiraling Embers
  
• 1 Mizzium Transreliquat
  
• 1 Island
  
• 1 Dominus of Fealty
  
• 1 Suffocation Blast
  
• 1 Mulldrifter
  
• 1 Riddle of Lightning
  
• 1 Flame Fusillade
  
• 1 Stuffy Doll
  
• 1 Fact or Fiction
  
• 1 Merchant Scroll
  
• 1 Spin into Myth
  
• 1 Hinder
  

I need more burn...

As another T+L Player, I am BLOWN away at some of the cards you're choosing to remove. Maybe I don't understand your gameplay, but why would you take bribery and rite out? Those are basic MUSTS for EDH simply because of the broken things they enable.

With my creature base Rite isn't very broken, and bribery hurt lol...the deck is an extreme work in progress, big changes after most gaming sessions, slowly feeling the whole thing out while trying to focus the deck.

That's the idea at least

Latest and greatest

Pulling

• 1 Seat of the Synod
  
• 1 Great Furnace
  
• 1 Tezzeret the Seeker
  
• 1 Counterspell
  
• 1 Trinket Mage
  
• 1 Opt
  
• 1 Scrivener
  
• 1 Lightning Blast
  
• 1 Perilous Research
  
• 1 Pulse of the Forge
  
• 1 Swerve
  
• 1 Coalition Relic
  
• 1 Predator, Flagship
  
• 1 Charisma
  
• 1 Repercussion
  

Adding

• 1 Venser, Shaper Savant
  
• 1 Relearn
  
• 1 Recoup
  
• 1 Lightning Surge
  
• 1 Opt
  
• 1 Thunderbolt
  
• 1 Consecrated Sphinx
  
• 1 Tidespout Tyrant
  
• 1 Furnace of Rath
  
• 1 Mountain
  
• 1 Tolaria West
  

Putting back in

• 1 Journeyer's Kite
  
• 1 Spiraling Embers
  
• 1 Dominus of Fealty
  
• 1 Rite of Replication
  

Quote from tompkinsd6

With my creature base Rite isn't very broken, and bribery hurt lol...the deck is an extreme work in progress, big changes after most gaming sessions, slowly feeling the whole thing out while trying to focus the deck.

That's the idea at least

Latest and greatest

Pulling

• 1 Seat of the Synod
  
• 1 Great Furnace
  
• 1 Tezzeret the Seeker
  
• 1 Counterspell
  
• 1 Trinket Mage
  
• 1 Opt
  
• 1 Scrivener
  
• 1 Lightning Blast
  
• 1 Perilous Research
  
• 1 Pulse of the Forge
  
• 1 Swerve
  
• 1 Coalition Relic
  
• 1 Predator, Flagship
  
• 1 Charisma
  
• 1 Repercussion
  

Adding

• 1 Venser, Shaper Savant
  
• 1 Relearn
  
• 1 Recoup
  
• 1 Lightning Surge
  
• 1 Opt
  
• 1 Thunderbolt
  
• 1 Consecrated Sphinx
  
• 1 Tidespout Tyrant
  
• 1 Furnace of Rath
  
• 1 Mountain
  
• 1 Tolaria West
  

Putting back in

• 1 Journeyer's Kite
  
• 1 Spiraling Embers
  
• 1 Dominus of Fealty
  
• 1 Rite of Replication
  

The cute thing about rite is you can do it to any creature on the field. One game someone played a Yosei and I rite'd with a kicker WITH a reverberate and yosei locked him for 10 turns.

I'll comment more later, atm I need to head to work ><

Decided to drop all the small burn for something a little more substantial. Major deck change.

Update:

After all the major changes, there were some big ones, and the most recent tweaks the deck is actually running well (Able to play at a table of 4 where diplomacy didn't seem to be their "thing"). My play group officaly views Tibor and Lumia as a large threat...lol...pretty nice all things considered, and it all started with one person getting weird looks for telling everyone to kill my general, like why would we waste our time on that?

Everything feels pretty substantial, think Commandeer may be coming back out to make room for Swerve since most of the time changing targets is just as good as owning the spell (and for 5 mana less!). Only thing I don't own that I'd want to get/squeeze in would be Spelljack but it almost feels like commandeer with me getting to hold onto the spell till needed...we'll see.

Latest and Greatest

Removed

• 1 Ancestral Vision
  
• 1 Ancient Hellkite
  
• 1 Predator, Flagship
  
• 1 Commandeer
  
• 1 Dominus of Fealty
  
• 1 Hoard-Smelter Dragon
  
• 1 Scrivener
  
• 1 Venser, Shaper Savant
  
• 1 Recurring Insight
  
• 1 Grab the Reins
  
• 1 Word of Seizing
  
• 1 Grim Monolith
  
• 1 Thran Dynamo
  

Added

• 1 Spelljack
  
• 1 Lightning Surge
  
• 1 Recoup
  
• 1 Beacon of Destruction
  
• 1 Prophetic Bolt
  
• 1 Redirect
  
• 1 Shunt
  
• 1 Swerve
  
• 1 Evacuation
  
• 1 Starstorm
  
• 1 Urza's Rage
  
• 1 Cast Through Time
  
• 1 Doubling Cube
  

Recent changes

Dropped Charisma, too easily dealt with and the colors can't recur enchantments well. Clone got the axe for having too few targets, and only being useable once...Izzet Guildmage for too few good targets. Turnabout was pulled as it was too easy to combo with...and my only comboish card. Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind never really came through for me, so he isn't missed.

Reminisce, Red Sun's Zenith, and Blue Sun's Zenith all went in for more recursion/being reusable which is very nice.

Grab the Reins, Word of Seizing, and Ray of Command were added for more threats/combat trix with my low creature count, they've all come in handy.

Gilded Lotus went in over Doubling Cube for it being more useful turn 5 and 6, and makes for a better choice after seeing all the lands get blown up.

Not mentioned really is Opportunity went out for things more substantial and Comet Storm made the list of adds for instant speed burn on multiple targets.

I normally advocate the big splash, but you look like Tibor and Lumia could use a bit of support and some simple combinations.

If you are focusing on an instant/sorceriers matter theme ( I think you are ) I'd try looking at Gelectrode and Wee Dragonauts

I find my Djinn Illuminatus is very innocous until I replicate lightning bolt min. 6 times and bolt for 21+ damage. Then the anti-aggro cannons point my way. I'd like to suggest that type of burn to you. People say its horrible until you 2 card combo them in the face. Plus the damage to mana ratio (3 for 1) will never change. Cards like Beacon of Destruction and Lightning Pulse will actually DECREASE on that curve. Bolt will also remove smaller threats that your larger burn would be wasted on. Blazing Salvo is also one of my favorite cards to use and replicate. It's a bolt OR a 5 damage to player. Pretty deadly if you aim well with it.

Flametongue Kavu is a strictly awesome card. It deals 4 damage and has a 4/4 body....for 3R

I'd recommend Time Reversal, Elixir of Immortality, and anything that shuffles your WHOLE 'yard into the library. It can't hurt to completely reload on all of your spells.

Why Basilisk Collar? Your creature count seems a bit lacking to run a usually offensive equipment.

Thran Dynamo>Worn Powerstone

Telling Time, Trade Secrets and Rhystic Study I'd use the last first, then the second, then the first. Trade secrets will always be at least 4 cards/3 mana. Usually more. Highly political.

Treachery. NOW. Find room, grab it, run it.

If you run Ray of Command It'd be better for you to run at least Control Magic. Slightly different cost, same CMC, much more permanent. You can use Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir to compensate for the lack of instant speed, and Teferi+Lightning Greaves+Darksteel Plate will make him unremovable, until the equipments are destroyed.

Just some thoughts.

Djinn Illuminatus is always great, I used to run lightning bolt for just that reason but the game I don't see him and am holding a bolt that can't take out a 4/4 makes me dislike bolt...but maybe I should try it again.

I haven't seen Time Reversal until now, and like it, I probably forgot about Elixir of Immortality but do have a few things that get things from my graveyard back to my hand...only one that shuffles my graveyard in though.

I like Basilisk Collar with the general.

Agreed that Thran Dynamo is strictly better than Worn Powerstone.

I own Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora, but haven't put them in be it for lack of finding room or trying to cut permanents back. Don't have Trade Secrets, but do want to get one for the deck.

Treachery and Control Magic are permanent, and the prior is basically free, but to keep the instant speed I need another creature that I don't have many ways to find. The main reason for the control choices I made were usually to respond during combat.

I'm going to sit down after getting my new work in progress posted, and take a good look at this deck with the mentioned cards in mind. The deck has been working quite well for me the way it's currently built, but I'm always up for improvements. I appreciate the input.

Quote from tompkinsd6

Djinn Illuminatus is always great, I used to run lightning bolt for just that reason but the game I don't see him and am holding a bolt that can't take out a 4/4 makes me dislike bolt...but maybe I should try it again.

I haven't seen Time Reversal until now, and like it, I probably forgot about Elixir of Immortality but do have a few things that get things from my graveyard back to my hand...only one that shuffles my graveyard in though.

I like Basilisk Collar with the general.

Agreed that Thran Dynamo is strictly better than Worn Powerstone.

I own Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora, but haven't put them in be it for lack of finding room or trying to cut permanents back. Don't have Trade Secrets, but do want to get one for the deck.

Treachery and Control Magic are permanent, and the prior is basically free, but to keep the instant speed I need another creature that I don't have many ways to find. The main reason for the control choices I made were usually to respond during combat.

I'm going to sit down after getting my new work in progress posted, and take a good look at this deck with the mentioned cards in mind. The deck has been working quite well for me the way it's currently built, but I'm always up for improvements. I appreciate the input.

Sounds good then. I do like your deck however, alot of spell redirection I wish I had for a similar deck.

The mention of Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir made me go look at an old favorite of this decks Spellweaver Volute...how I love that card...do I have enough sorceries to warrant this?

And why am I not running Cryptic Command!? Went to pull the suggested cards and meditate on them...or at least think them over...and see my cryptic command laughing at me, hidden among my blue rares, and not in a deck...

I would like to make room for Cryptic Command, and maybe Spellweaver Volute (not 100% on the Volute). Thoughts on what I should pull to fit them in, and whether or not Volute is worth the slot?


Probably not, counted 18 out of 28 instants I would use the volute for so that's a no.

Sphinx-Bone Wand came out for Cryptic Command

Once again here I am with the latest and the greatest.

Both Red Sun's Zenith and Blue Sun's Zenith had to go because I was getting too many X CMC spells in the deck. That and no matter how you slice it Blue never beat any other draw power to cost wise, and Red was always kind of underwhelming for me.

Shunt/Swerve left for being too narrow minded, both require a spell to have a single target, which isn't always as relevant as you might think.

Echo Mage was just too slow, and generated sooooooo much hate.

Body Double Had a real lack of good targets most of the time with all the GY hate people fling around.

Izzet Chronarch was a really weak body, so died easily, and really came down to a 5 cost Relearn...

Cast Through Time was fun, don't get me wrong, but the deck can't do much with enchantments in the way of copying and such...it was never a dead draw, but the deck plays really reactivity which takes away from this card's pizazz.

Gilded Lotus just felt like an expensive Thran Dynamo most of the time.

Riptide Laboratory left due to the glorious lack of wizards in the deck.

Now for what's been added.

Thran Dynamo...it's like a cheap Gilded Lotus...lol

Sphinx-Bone Wand was greatly missed, even in a deck that's sits around waiting as much as this one, Sphinx-Bone Wand is almost as good as Tidespout Tyrant, or at least good for the same reason.

Mizzium Transreliquat/Phyrexian Metamorph both give a little flexibility with my copying, and have been relevant in all my games.

Pulse of the Forge/Hammer of Bogardan are both experiments, due to the lack of good recurrible burn. I'm worried about the hammer's 3 damage/5 mana to get back, and pulse only hurts players...we'll see.

Trade Secrets is just good draw/diplomacy.

Spellweaver Volute is back...again...it's just so much fun, and who doesn't want to recast spells?

Acquire is just good, and if that isn't good enough then I've been trying to squeeze this in the deck for some time...more stealing...come on

The deck is down to 20 non land permanents.