Hello Mtgsalvation forum members! My name is Dexter, and I am fairly new to the whole forum scene, but would very much like to dive in. I have been playing edh for about a year now, and have 4 decks as of writing this, but before the creation of this deck I have always ignored the hands down coolest legend in the game!(in my opinion) This is mostly due to the fact that every other non-edh deck i've had him in is not red, but I've always enjoyed a challenge in deckmaking, so without further distraction, here is the initial decklist. (one day perhaps I would like to turn this into a primer, but I would like some more people other than myself and my few friends to look at it
First let's take a look at the General Nuisance himself(reference to mercadian masques printing flavor text)
Aww look at how adorable he is with his toy. Doesn't that just make you want to kill him over and over again? what's that?... NO?! well too bad because that is exactly what we will be doing in this deck.
This little guy comes down for a measily 2R and will continue to cost that much for the rest of the game barring exile. So whether he's a constant chump blocker or an amazing discard effect, his adorable visage will be with you every step of the way to VICTORY!!!!
DECKLIST
Now that we have an introduction to our beloved general, here are the other 99 cards in the deck.
Overall when I started building the deck I already knew that red is infamous for being the worst color in edh, and in my opinion is because of how little card advantage , so I wanted my deck to include as much as humanly possible without it completely dominating the deckspace. Squee, Goblin Nabob is fairly conductive to this, considering he allows for draw/discard cards to net me even more cards. From there I started off with dragon-based wincons, but I realized that I wanted to be able to be able to throw away even more cards if I wanted to via discard. So a more graveyard based strategy seemed to be the best route. Which then I went toward the best creature for the job, Goblin Welder! This was a great route and from that point the deck pretty much built itself to an extent, including even more tutors in the form of Goblin Matron and the like which can also grab squee in the case that he is tucked. This turned out to be even more profitable due to the fact that initially I was including all the phoenixes in the case that he is tucked and for more consistency, so I was able to get rid of the weaker of the bunch. For now though I will go through the card choices for advantage.
CARD CHOICES
Stax Strategy
Stax
Smokestack - The strategy's namesake, this card will let us make use of squee and our other permanent generators to gain board advantage over our opponents.
Tangle Wire - When played early, this will consistently offer advantage to be gained over our opponents. When played late, with cards such as Goblin Welder and Mirrorworks especially, it offers an assist to locking down your opponents.
Possessed Portal - This creates a lock by itself with squee and our other sac fodder.
Goblin Assassin - Amazing creature removal with squee and all other goblins within this deck. This guy will be an amazing value target as well and will consistently come into play more often due it being tutorable by both Imperial Recruiter and Goblin Matron.
Seismic Mage - Synergy with our general, a land removal a turn will keep your opponents off of their threats all the while raising your threat base at the same time.
Shivan Harvest - Synergy with our general and other sac fodder, repeated land destruction is the best disruption for this format
Stranglehold - A fairly new addition, this is great for stopping fetchlands and tutors all over the place, the extra turns part isn't all that relevant in that the idea of this deck is to dominate early game as much as possible, although it is very easily possible to "level off" midgame where the extra turn denial may come into play.
Teferi's Puzzle Box - Provides repeated hand disruption to stop the combo players from pushing through my pressure.
Molten Psyche - Hand disruption, also when chained with other draw7 cards can be a powerful wincon with metalcraft being easily attainable.
Wheel of Fortune - Hand disruption while serving dual purpose of fueling my graveyard for welder shenanigans.
Wheel of Fate - Ditto, but put's the pressure on your opponents to empty their hands as fast as possible which is great when all you are served by it is positive effect.
Dragon Mage - Repeated fueling for graveyard and hand disruption.
Incendiary Command - Versatility incarnate, fuels grave, cycles through my cards, burns creatures and people, and clears a land off the table, all for only 3RR!
Chandra Ablaze - Her second ability synergizes with all the other effects in here, and her first ability synergizes with squee for some great removal.
Memory Jar - Weldable fueling for graveyards and handcycling.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker - Tutorable by both imperial recruiter and goblin matron, and this is almost always going to be our first target via those two due to our ability to reuse the tutor abilities after kiki comes online. The fact that after this guy is online I have free sac targets as well is always nice.
Goblin Welder - Another primary tutor target, this guy offers another outlet for free sac targets, artifact recursion, and artifact hate all in one nice little R mana cost.
Siege-Gang Commander - Kiki-Jiki target, also allows us to make use of squee if he's on the field to deal some damage. The two damage is surprisingly useful as well, killing most utility generals with either one or two activations.
Pentavus - Kiki/Welder target, allows to put artifact tokens into play which can be welded away to have hard recursion via welder. Tutorable via recruiter as well.
Myr Battlesphere - Great beater while serving the purpose of token generation as well.
Mirrorworks - Doubles all of our artifacts, which becomes amazing as both sac fodder, mana ramp, and extra stax effects.
Goblin Assault - Free tokens are always great, as we almost always want to be able to use our mana on other things. The attack drawback is a small one as our only goblin that is scared of it is goblin assassin as he doesn't have a tap ability.
Crucible of Worlds - Works great with all of our lands that sacrifice themselves. This becomes a recursion engine for artifacts through buried ruin, a library thinner with any of the fetchlands, a stax effect with any of the lands that destroy lands, and a free permanent generator for a stax effect all in one.
RAMP
Sol Ring - Staple card for the most part, some synergy with Mirrorworks as do most other things in the deck, but it pays for it's own copy.
Mana Crypt - Basically the same as Sol Ring, although it allows for a turn one CMC 3 card which is really relevant in a deck like this. Nice also because it can be welded out when the damage drawback starts to become too much.
Coalition Relic - Great for some more colored mana, probably a weaker card though as I don't need it for mana fixing, considering changing this one out for something like Mind Stone as a lower cmc manafact.
Caged Sun - Mana doubler and goblin booster, works great with Mirrorworks as well, unfortunately not as effective as the other doublers as the CMC on this one is just too high and the benefit of it only affecting my cards isn't all that relevant in my meta as red is incredibly rare. Will consider trading this out for something more early and disruptive, but only after the next one is removed first.
Gauntlet of Power - Same purpose as the above, although 1 cmc less and affects my opponents. I would consider dropping this second to Extraplanar Lens due to the fact that it isn't board disadvantage which can end up being relevant in a deck such as this.
Gauntlet of Might - The best mana doubler of them all, this one comes in during the earlier turns and boosts a good portion of my relevant creatures, I would never consider cutting this card.
Extraplanar Lens - This one comes down incredibly early and it is for this reason alone that I have kept it in the deck. A nice bonus being that most people who do in fact run red in my meta only run it as a secondary color so no snow-covered mountains on their side.
Mind's Eye - Works amazingly with the draw7 effects, if you have the excess mana(which happens a decent amount of the time) you can draw your library and lock the board before anyone has time or mana to even have a counter.
Planar Portal - Fitting as much consistency as possible in this deck is of utmost importance, although this is more of a midgame route, if we have the mana to be tutoring once per turn then we are winning.
Citanul Flute - Basically serves the same purpose as Planar Portal but simply for creatures, great tutor and usually goes for Imperial Recruiter first.[/CARD]
Hoarding Dragon - Artifact tutor in red is never something to scoff at. Typically you have to jump through hoops to get this guy in the graveyard but in a more destruction and sacrificial-based deck like this he is more reliable.
Imperial Recruiter - One of the best cards in the deck, period. He tutors for anything relevant, typically Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker first to continue the tutor chain for whatever else you need at the moment.
Moggcatcher - Repeatable tutor for goblins directly into play is incredibly powerful, my only problem with this one is that it runs out of things to grab fairly fast if used repeatedly, but by the time I get all my goblins out I usually have the board locked down anyhow.
Goblin Matron - Our second Imperial Recruiter, we play it tutoring Kiki typically as well and grab all the relevant goblins first.
Gamble - Tutor for R and a random discard is great, tutor for R when we have a chance to simply discard Squee is even better.
Sensei's Divining Top - Great card for sculpting our early game plays and welding late game. Especially helpful as well when we have a Mirrorworks in play and it becomes 3: Draw a card.
Scroll Rack - Great card for filtering our draws, combined with all the fetchlands we have available we can have pretty powerful access to what we draw in our deck. Also nice for the occasional combo when we can throw Molten Psyche on top of our library only to Wheel of Fortune into it and deal 14 damage to the entire table.
Skullclamp - Becomes a draw engine with squee once per turn. Once our tokens are put into the mix drawing a huge portion of our deck isn't unheard of.
Bazaar of Baghdad - This has amazing synergy with Squee and the deck as a whole. With Squee it becomes a draw 2 discard 2 which lends itself very nicely to our graveyard-based strategy.
Anvil of Bogardan - Becomes a one-sided Howling Mine for me when I have Squee. Also has synergy with Mind's Eye to draw off of that extra draw of our opponent's.
Removal
Spine of Ish Sah - Phenomenal welder target as it bounces itself back to our hand after hitting the grave. So this becomes hard recursion and a vindicate all in one nice package. Very important card for removing those enchantments.
Steel Hellkite - Scary attacker in that it threatens all of our opponent's permanents, this guy is usually removal bait, but once he actually gets running(which is surprisingly often) he just rips our opponent's boards to shreds(what is left of them at least).
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage - With Squee around, we can have a lot of fun with Jaya throwing around locks against blue opponents and board wipes whenever necessary.
Duplicant- Great welder target for repeated removal, the exile clause is incredibly relevant.
Synergy
Rings of Brighthearth - Works with so many things in the deck it's insane. It becomes ramp when used on a fetchland, it becomes a value engine when used on welder's ability.
Icefall - Recurrable removal for artifacts and lands, works well once we get to saccing squee repeatedly.
Psychosis Crawler - A wincon once we get to chaining our draw7 cards. This guy can be a huge life swing and on top of that is weldable. It's not uncommon to get a 30+ life swing once this guy gets up with either a mirrorworks or molten psyche.
Elixir of Immortality - Allows to shuffle our dead goblins back into our libraries to be tutored out again, very useful effect and is nice when we can reuse it via copying of the welder/mirrorworks combo.
Kher Keep - Ties up any extra mana I may have(and often do) for an extra permanent per turn for sacrificial purposes.
Buried Ruin - Absolutely amazing addition to this deck as it allows me to freely reanimate the artifact portion of this deck with the presence of crucible.
Snow-Covered Mountain Allows the extraplanar lense to be more one sided while offering another form of card advantage through the aforementioned scrying sheets.
Cards Up For Consideration/ Notable Exclusions
Druidic Satchel - Has the potential to be amazing in a deck that slows the game down such as this, also has great synergy with the cards that mess with the top card of my library.
Explorer's Scope - Kinda the same deal as the satchel, although this one is great in that there is no mana investment after the equip, in the end i'm just not sure enough about this one and would probably just go for the satchel given a choice.
Claws of Gix - The ability to sacrifice any permanent is really the winner here, would also serve as a 0 cost artifact for a possible inclusion of mox opal.
Winter Orb - This would be absolutely amazing but as it stands I can lock the board out just fine without it, although it will still be up for consideration.
Tormod's Crypt - Grave hate is great, although those decks are slow enough that I'm not worried about their more late game strategies as I can use disruption to keep them off of their hard wincons until I am able to lock the gamestate completely.
Capricious Efreet - I like this as a possible removal option with no drawback with squee involved.
Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer - A tutor target that can protect my stax effects, not included as of now due to the fact that removal hasn't been a huge problem yet, but a definite consideration.
Masticore - This guy and his brethren have the potential to be quite the powerhouses, but I run enough discard effects as it stands and they just don't do enough otherwise to be worth it in this build. If anything I will consider throwing Razormane Masticore before any other due to his damage being free.
Winter Orb - This one is in all likelihood going to make it in eventually, it just hasn't been necessary because there's almost always enough land disruption that's one sided to go around. If this ever does make it in some of the mana doublers will probably come out as well since they have an inherent lack of synergy.
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle - Decided against this one in the long run because it just became win more and a basic land that interacted better with a mana-doubler/scrying sheets was preferable.
All in all I'd appreciate any and all suggestions for this deck, it's been my baby for awhile now and it'd always be great to see it grow. For anyone who wants to test it here is a link to the decklist on tappedout. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/squee-pheonix-king/
I see you're rocking the monored, props. Always been my favourite mono-colour (my Godo list just wrecks people). Just quickly glanced at your decklist, which is actually very good. You're pulling off some great synergy here. I'd definitely include Hoarding Dragon as it's another great way to tutor out the oh-so-lovely clamp or a Gauntlet. Another great addition would be Darksteel Ingot for more ramp over, say Ichor Wellspring (kinda meh).
One of my favourite red cards is Viashino Heretic. He is just such a beast. Magus of the Moon and Blood Moon punish those who deviate from the power of red. For these, I'd replace Elixir of Vitality, Platinum Emperion (you already have the Angel and not everyone wins through damage, so he's not only worst, but he costs more mana), and I appreciate the secret tech, but not a big fan of Gustha's Scepter.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Thanks for the warm welcome! And I greatly appreciate you taking a look at the decklist. First of all, great find on Hoarding Dragon, I can't believe I ever missed that in the deckbuilding process, I'll immediately test it in the decklist. My only worry in regards to him is that I might not be able to get him killed, but in a multiplayer format i'm sure someone might be able to do me the honor themselves :).
As for what to take out I definitely think that the Platinum Emperion is underperforming, and agree that it should be taken out. In regards to removing the Ichor Wellspring, I think I might actually stick with it, since the deck likes to try to pull out the welder quite often, this artifact in particular becomes a wellspring of card advantage (excuse the pun). Also a cantrip isn't too awful even by itself as well. I also will have to keep the Elixir of Immortality which I believe you were referring to and also Gustha's Scepter as the card selection these guys offer is great in such a chaos oriented deck.
Also to perhaps help out with how elixir synergizes with the deck I think I will remove Goblin Recruiter for Moggcatcher as the repeatable tutor is amazing for when I sack a goblin to put him in the grave and then shuffle them back in.
The Moons I do really like, just when building the deck and putting my Bazaar of Baghdad in there I got paranoid as to whether or not i'd kill it's advantage with it, but now that seems fairly trivial after playing with the deck after awhile, but now my problem lies with what to remove for it. Also Viashino Heretic is just plain amazing, but the lack of synergy might hurt him so for now i'll look for what to take out and consider him on the side, before the moons.
So as it stands here are the changes... for now of course
I would take out godo. if you think about it all godo is doing is giving you one extra copy of skullclamp or the sword that costs 6mana. and although i havent tried your deck yet, i have a feeling it sees alot of cards with all the wheel effects, so a really costly and narrow tutor is not necessary.
also is serum powder really necessary? do you play in a cutthroat environment that they dont have some special mulligan rule?
i would play mind stone instead
Yeah Godo has become weaker and weaker as the deck has evolved, initially he served a much greater role pulling diviner's wand and some others, so he might end up being cut-bait for Blood Moon
As for Serum Powder, it has never not been good, but it also hasn't necessarily been the best card in the world either. My environment isn't cutthroat like you say, I have just wanted for this deck to be as consistant as possible and being able to get rid of a possibly bad hand full of non-necessary cards and start out with a deck full of 92 cards rather than 99 makes a big difference in the long-run. Also when it is in my opening hand and there are cards that I want I can always do a partial paris mulligan to get rid of said cards and then exile from there. That said it is based a good bit on luck, but so is everything else in the end :D. I might consider another ramp spell like Mind Stone or perhaps Magus of the Moon, but for now I think i'll continue to test it.
All in all I think i'll take out godo for blood moon for testing, and if that doesn't work out I might consider putting in terramorphic expanse and evolving wilds for some more fetches to work with crucible to thin out the deck.
This thread is pretty hilarious, and I'm tempted to put my French Masques foil Squee to work. Props for an original idea!
One thing I noticed that you don't seem to have are the various Masticores. Back in the day, I recall that they liked to utilize Squee's services. Any reason why they aren't in here?
EDIT: I understand the need for Squee to be in hand in order to get Masticores to work right, but I figured you must already have ways to put Squee in hand, otherwise there wouldn't be much of a reason to play him at all, right?
Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer maybe? It's another tutor target that protects your important artifact like Sword of Fire and Ice plus Possessed Portal.
He's an interesting choice, but I'm still unsure as to what to take out/if he will even be useful. Typically removal of my pieces isn't too much of a problem since I kill/limit their resources enough to keep them off of it. I'll do some testing...
Quote from OCPunisher »
This thread is pretty hilarious, and I'm tempted to put my French Masques foil Squee to work. Props for an original idea!
One thing I noticed that you don't seem to have are the various Masticores. Back in the day, I recall that they liked to utilize Squee's services. Any reason why they aren't in here?
EDIT: I understand the need for Squee to be in hand in order to get Masticores to work right, but I figured you must already have ways to put Squee in hand, otherwise there wouldn't be much of a reason to play him at all, right?
Thanks for the kind comment! I take great pride in originality.
As for the masticores, they were tested at one point and were decidedly either too mana intensive or just don't do enough. Plus it isn't necessary to run too many discard outlets as squee can only be discarded/sacced once per turn. Although they are always worth considering in a SqueEDH so I will go ahead and include them in the "Notable Exclusions" section.
Also squee get's into my grave pretty quickly typically whether it's from a chump block, a stax effect, or a sac effect. And then it's just a matter of waiting til my next turn to get him into my hand.
This deck is hilarious. I'd imagine it works pretty well. I heard killing non-basic lands is pretty effective and gets people mad :P. This is the most hardcore Stax deck I've seen.
Go Squee, Goblin Nabob!
This deck is hilarious. I'd imagine it works pretty well. I heard killing non-basic lands is pretty effective and gets people mad :P. This is the most hardcore Stax deck I've seen.
Go Squee, Goblin Nabob!
Thanks so much! Unfortunately it's been banned in 2/4 of my playgroups due to the anger lockout strategies cause in most people.
I thought it was strange since your list looks really tuned. While not really on theme Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle is pretty good in monored.
I had it in an earlier iteration of the deck, but it got removed when I went through and limited the non-basics due to it not doing enough. I'll go ahead and throw it in the notable exclusions section though.
Thanks so much! Unfortunately it's been banned in 2/4 of my playgroups due to the anger lockout strategies cause in most people.
Haha woops for some reason I didn't have this listed on the decklist even though it exists in my RL one, thanks for pointing it out!
Seriously? They ban Mono-Red Stax, but allow Blue/Black to be in the playgroup. That makes sense, D'oh. You just showed them that Red can be good! Godo-Stax is my favorite deck of all time, it's mean if your not prepared.
I'm glad someone is representing Red in EDH. Too many people just look at Red as a support colour, even the advance players (Sigh). What fools.
Seriously? They ban Mono-Red Stax, but allow Blue/Black to be in the playgroup. That makes sense, D'oh. You just showed them that Red can be good! Godo-Stax is my favorite deck of all time, it's mean if your not prepared.
I'm glad someone is representing Red in EDH. Too many people just look at Red as a support colour, even the advance players (Sigh). What fools.
Haha yeah it is a bit odd I suppose compared to most groups, but one of the two groups runs almost solely janky decks based around themes/convoluted combos and the like. The other group is simply unwilling to put the time/funds into coming up with a counter strategy.
I guess red control just goes "over the edge" of controlliness :rolleyes:.
As for Godo he seems like he could be quite the contender what with cards like Argentum Armor floating around. Please do post your decklist as i'd be very interested in seeing your approach.
Looking over this list again, I really like it. You have a good amount of utility and versatility here. A few thoughts:
I use Genesis Chamber in my Norin deck and it has proven a great clamp engine and I would imagine it could be even better in stax. It does help others who play creatures though... just a thought.
What would you say about Manic Vandal? He's good artifact removal and can be doubled with Kiki. Triggers the aforementioned Chamber too.
I always suggest Trash for Treasure to mono-red players. I'm actually very surprised I didn't mention it in my earlier post. Recursion is always useful (especially when you are recurring Smokestack) and it's just amazing with Spine of Ish Sah.
Just a few thoughts, I'll definitely come up with more. I love tuning red.
EDIT: I just took a look at your tappedout list and it's considerably different. I realize you're already playing Trash and a few other things. I would probably include Buried Ruin in your list, as it's also useful for recurring the bucketful of artifacts you play.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Looking over this list again, I really like it. You have a good amount of utility and versatility here. A few thoughts:
I use Genesis Chamber in my Norin deck and it has proven a great clamp engine and I would imagine it could be even better in stax. It does help others who play creatures though... just a thought.
What would you say about Manic Vandal? He's good artifact removal and can be doubled with Kiki. Triggers the aforementioned Chamber too.
I always suggest Trash for Treasure to mono-red players. I'm actually very surprised I didn't mention it in my earlier post. Recursion is always useful (especially when you are recurring Smokestack) and it's just amazing with Spine of Ish Sah.
Just a few thoughts, I'll definitely come up with more. I love tuning red.
EDIT: I just took a look at your tappedout list and it's considerably different. I realize you're already playing Trash and a few other things. I would probably include Buried Ruin in your list, as it's also useful for recurring the bucketful of artifacts you play.
Thanks for taking a second look! It has changed a great deal since your last look on it and I still need to renovate the first post with some more descriptions but the jank has been removed for the most part. As for the tappedout list I am about to change that as well as it is an earlier iteration of the deck.
Genesis Chamber - Has been tested in the past and wasn't found to be all that amazing even given the possibilities for skullclamp. I will reconsider it's inclusion and test it out these next couple games as squee and other creatures do tend to get thrown around a lot. A BIG problem I have with it is that it helps your opponents with permanent generation as well.
Manic Vandal - If I were to include him I would have to put Tuktuk Scrapper in first as he is a tutor target for all of my tutors and has the same effect. As a whole it would be a slot well used but as it stands I have never hurt for dedicated artifact destruction as my general permanent destruction and forced saccing has been enough. I will go ahead and add both of these cards to the up for consideration section.
Trash for Treasure was included in an earlier version of the deck as you can see on tappedout currently, but was found to be a bit too weak whenever both Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Anarchist weren't present at the same time. All that said I will still include it in the consideration section since it has great potential given the right support.
Also for some reason I didn't update the list with buried ruin in this one, I'll really have to keep a better eye on this thread.
Any suggestions for what to take out for your possible inclusions overall? It's incredibly difficult to decide on cuts since the list has gotten so tight.
Haha yeah it is a bit odd I suppose compared to most groups, but one of the two groups runs almost solely janky decks based around themes/convoluted combos and the like. The other group is simply unwilling to put the time/funds into coming up with a counter strategy.
I guess red control just goes "over the edge" of controlliness :rolleyes:.
As for Godo he seems like he could be quite the contender what with cards like Argentum Armor floating around. Please do post your decklist as i'd be very interested in seeing your approach.
Godo, is ridiculous. Godo + Grafted Exoskeleton = Prepare for complaints. Read the last post, Trash for Treasure is amazing. More Goblin Welder effects!
Lately, I've been messing around with Sharuum Stax. Check it out! It works really well, even if I lose, I make them work. Thopter + Sword are the only "infinite" combos I run in there. Mostly, it's there for Smokestack/Braids, Cabal Minion and chumps.
Any suggestions for what to take out for your possible inclusions overall? It's incredibly difficult to decide on cuts since the list has gotten so tight.
There are a few cards in your tappedout list that I'd keep an eye on because I think they could potentially be replaced.
I can see Ice Cauldron and Gustha's Scpter being super pet-cards but I'm not sure they're worth the cut. Maybe you could explain what you usually do with them and how they contribute to your strategy?
I'm not sure about Mirrorworks as it's a little expensive. Maybe Sculpting Steel could replace it, or if it's working for you, could work alongside it?
I'm not so sure about Serum Powder either. It could be replaced with Mindstone if you'd like to keep the ramp. It has some added utility too.
Another option for inclusion could be Wurmcoil Engine. It's a strong card overall and makes tokens. Not great, but another option.
Steel Hellkite is another card I think mono-red and black decks like, mostly due to its ability to deal with enchantments. Other than that, it's still a solid card.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
There are a few cards in your tappedout list that I'd keep an eye on because I think they could potentially be replaced.
I can see Ice Cauldron and Gustha's Scpter being super pet-cards but I'm not sure they're worth the cut. Maybe you could explain what you usually do with them and how they contribute to your strategy?
I'm not sure about Mirrorworks as it's a little expensive. Maybe Sculpting Steel could replace it, or if it's working for you, could work alongside it?
I'm not so sure about Serum Powder either. It could be replaced with Mindstone if you'd like to keep the ramp. It has some added utility too.
Another option for inclusion could be Wurmcoil Engine. It's a strong card overall and makes tokens. Not great, but another option.
Steel Hellkite is another card I think mono-red and black decks like, mostly due to its ability to deal with enchantments. Other than that, it's still a solid card.
Just a few thoughts.
Unfortunately the tappedout list isn't my current one, as i said in my last post. So most of the suggestions for removal have already been performed. Mirrorworks is one of the best cards in the deck and I can't see myself removing it any time soon. As for Sculpting Steel, I will need to test but it looks promising! Nice find there. Wurmcoil Engine is also another option that would be great to consider, but I've found my current weldable artifacts to be great. I will go ahead and put him in the possibility section though in the case of me ever needing a bit of life gain in which case I will put him over Pentavus.
Godo, is ridiculous. Godo + Grafted Exoskeleton = Prepare for complaints. Read the last post, Trash for Treasure is amazing. More Goblin Welder effects!
Lately, I've been messing around with Sharuum Stax. Check it out! It works really well, even if I lose, I make them work. Thopter + Sword are the only "infinite" combos I run in there. Mostly, it's there for Smokestack/Braids, Cabal Minion and chumps.
Haha I bet he cleans up quickly with that on the field. Although it doesn't seem very staxy :D. As for trash for treasure, I'll give it another chance since you both seem mildly adamant on it... ON TO TESTING!!!!
And i'll go ahead and check out your sharuum deck!
Unfortunately the tappedout list isn't my current one, as i said in my last post. So most of the suggestions for removal have already been performed. Mirrorworks is one of the best cards in the deck and I can't see myself removing it any time soon. As for Sculpting Steel, I will need to test but it looks promising! Nice find there. Wurmcoil Engine is also another option that would be great to consider, but I've found my current weldable artifacts to be great. I will go ahead and put him in the possibility section though in the case of me ever needing a bit of life gain in which case I will put him over Pentavus.
Haha I bet he cleans up quickly with that on the field. Although it doesn't seem very staxy :D. As for trash for treasure, I'll give it another chance since you both seem mildly adamant on it... ON TO TESTING!!!!
And i'll go ahead and check out your sharuum deck!
Wurmcoil Engine is really good. Give it a try. I have a bad tendency of running Steel Hellkite, Wurmcoil Engine, Sundering Titan in all my decks. They generate card advantage, that's my excuse. If you get coloured screwed, you can still cast them!
My Stax build is really similar to yours but I go all or nothing Stax with 2-4 win conditions.
Trinisphere, Thorn of Amethyst, Sundering Titan, and Lodestone Golem our champs in my playgroup. There's always a dual land to destroy and our cmc is fairly low, usually below 3. 40%~ of all our spells played in a normal game are below 3 :P.
I found this list looking for a Phoenix-themed EDH deck, and was slightly disappointed, though I like the deck itself for what it is! Only one question, though: Where's Winter Orb??
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH:
:symb::symb::symb: The Horde! :symb::symb::symb: Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter Dralnu- Dimir Snap!
:symwu::symur::symrw: Zedruu the Greathearted :symrw::symur::symwu:
:symwu::symub::symwb: Zur the Enchanter :symwb::symub::symwu:
Kumano, Master Yamabushi
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
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Hello Mtgsalvation forum members! My name is Dexter, and I am fairly new to the whole forum scene, but would very much like to dive in. I have been playing edh for about a year now, and have 4 decks as of writing this, but before the creation of this deck I have always ignored the hands down coolest legend in the game!(in my opinion) This is mostly due to the fact that every other non-edh deck i've had him in is not red, but I've always enjoyed a challenge in deckmaking, so without further distraction, here is the initial decklist. (one day perhaps I would like to turn this into a primer, but I would like some more people other than myself and my few friends to look at it
First let's take a look at the General Nuisance himself(reference to mercadian masques printing flavor text)
Aww look at how adorable he is with his toy. Doesn't that just make you want to kill him over and over again? what's that?... NO?! well too bad because that is exactly what we will be doing in this deck.
This little guy comes down for a measily 2R and will continue to cost that much for the rest of the game barring exile. So whether he's a constant chump blocker or an amazing discard effect, his adorable visage will be with you every step of the way to VICTORY!!!!
DECKLIST
Now that we have an introduction to our beloved general, here are the other 99 cards in the deck.
1 Tangle Wire - *
1 Possessed Portal - *
1 Goblin Assassin - *
1 Sundering Titan - *
1 Seismic Mage - *
1 Shivan Harvest - *
1 Strip Mine - *
1 Wasteland - *
1 Tectonic Edge - *
1 Stranglehold
1 Teferi's Puzzle Box - *
1 Molten Psyche - *
1 Wheel of Fortune - *
1 Wheel of Fate - *
1 Dragon Mage - *
1 Incendiary Command - *
1 Chandra Ablaze - *
1 Memory Jar - *
1 Magus of the Moon - *
1 Blood Moon - *
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker - *
1 Goblin Welder - *
1 Siege-Gang Commander - $
1 Pentavus - *
1 Myr Battlesphere - *
1 Mirrorworks - *
1 Goblin Assault - *
1 Crucible of Worlds - *
1 Mana Crypt
1 Coalition Relic - *
1 Caged Sun - *
1 Gauntlet of Power - *
1 Gauntlet of Might - $
1 Extraplanar Lens - *
1 Gilded Lotus - *
1 Koth of the Hammer - *
1 Solemn Simulacrum - *
1 Expedition Map - *
1 Mind's Eye - $
1 Planar Portal - *
1 Citanul Flute - *
1 Hoarding Dragon - *
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Moggcatcher - *
1 Goblin Matron - *
1 Gamble
1 Sensei's Divining Top - *
1 Scroll Rack
1 Skullclamp - *
1 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Anvil of Bogardan
1 Steel Hellkite - *
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage - *
1 Duplicant - *
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Icefall - *
1 Psychosis Crawler - *
1 Elixir of Immortality - *
1 Vicious Shadows - *
1 Scalding Tarn - *
1 Arid Mesa - *
1 Wooded Foothills - $
1 Bloodstained Mire - $
1 Scrying Sheets - *
1 Mouth of Ronom - *
1 Great Furnace - *
1 Darksteel Citadel - *
1 High Market - *
1 Kher Keep - *
1 Buried Ruin - *
25 Snow-Covered Mountain - *
Also for your enjoyment here is a decklist on tappedout for your testing purposes.http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/squee-pheonix-king/.
Overall when I started building the deck I already knew that red is infamous for being the worst color in edh, and in my opinion is because of how little card advantage , so I wanted my deck to include as much as humanly possible without it completely dominating the deckspace. Squee, Goblin Nabob is fairly conductive to this, considering he allows for draw/discard cards to net me even more cards. From there I started off with dragon-based wincons, but I realized that I wanted to be able to be able to throw away even more cards if I wanted to via discard. So a more graveyard based strategy seemed to be the best route. Which then I went toward the best creature for the job, Goblin Welder! This was a great route and from that point the deck pretty much built itself to an extent, including even more tutors in the form of Goblin Matron and the like which can also grab squee in the case that he is tucked. This turned out to be even more profitable due to the fact that initially I was including all the phoenixes in the case that he is tucked and for more consistency, so I was able to get rid of the weaker of the bunch. For now though I will go through the card choices for advantage.
CARD CHOICES
Smokestack - The strategy's namesake, this card will let us make use of squee and our other permanent generators to gain board advantage over our opponents.
Tangle Wire - When played early, this will consistently offer advantage to be gained over our opponents. When played late, with cards such as Goblin Welder and Mirrorworks especially, it offers an assist to locking down your opponents.
Possessed Portal - This creates a lock by itself with squee and our other sac fodder.
Goblin Assassin - Amazing creature removal with squee and all other goblins within this deck. This guy will be an amazing value target as well and will consistently come into play more often due it being tutorable by both Imperial Recruiter and Goblin Matron.
Sundering Titan - Great stax effect especially when combined with goblin welder and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. Add blood moon or magus of the moon in the mix to protect your own lands from needing to be removed.
Seismic Mage - Synergy with our general, a land removal a turn will keep your opponents off of their threats all the while raising your threat base at the same time.
Shivan Harvest - Synergy with our general and other sac fodder, repeated land destruction is the best disruption for this format
Strip Mine - Synergy with Crucible of Worlds, allows for repeated land denial.
Wasteland - Ditto ^
Tectonic Edge - Ditto ^
Disruption
Stranglehold - A fairly new addition, this is great for stopping fetchlands and tutors all over the place, the extra turns part isn't all that relevant in that the idea of this deck is to dominate early game as much as possible, although it is very easily possible to "level off" midgame where the extra turn denial may come into play.
Teferi's Puzzle Box - Provides repeated hand disruption to stop the combo players from pushing through my pressure.
Molten Psyche - Hand disruption, also when chained with other draw7 cards can be a powerful wincon with metalcraft being easily attainable.
Wheel of Fortune - Hand disruption while serving dual purpose of fueling my graveyard for welder shenanigans.
Wheel of Fate - Ditto, but put's the pressure on your opponents to empty their hands as fast as possible which is great when all you are served by it is positive effect.
Dragon Mage - Repeated fueling for graveyard and hand disruption.
Incendiary Command - Versatility incarnate, fuels grave, cycles through my cards, burns creatures and people, and clears a land off the table, all for only 3RR!
Chandra Ablaze - Her second ability synergizes with all the other effects in here, and her first ability synergizes with squee for some great removal.
Memory Jar - Weldable fueling for graveyards and handcycling.
Magus of the Moon - Hurts non-basics and synergizes with Sundering Titan.
Blood Moon - Ditto ^.
Permanent's For saccing Besides Squee
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker - Tutorable by both imperial recruiter and goblin matron, and this is almost always going to be our first target via those two due to our ability to reuse the tutor abilities after kiki comes online. The fact that after this guy is online I have free sac targets as well is always nice.
Goblin Welder - Another primary tutor target, this guy offers another outlet for free sac targets, artifact recursion, and artifact hate all in one nice little R mana cost.
Siege-Gang Commander - Kiki-Jiki target, also allows us to make use of squee if he's on the field to deal some damage. The two damage is surprisingly useful as well, killing most utility generals with either one or two activations.
Pentavus - Kiki/Welder target, allows to put artifact tokens into play which can be welded away to have hard recursion via welder. Tutorable via recruiter as well.
Myr Battlesphere - Great beater while serving the purpose of token generation as well.
Mirrorworks - Doubles all of our artifacts, which becomes amazing as both sac fodder, mana ramp, and extra stax effects.
Goblin Assault - Free tokens are always great, as we almost always want to be able to use our mana on other things. The attack drawback is a small one as our only goblin that is scared of it is goblin assassin as he doesn't have a tap ability.
Crucible of Worlds - Works great with all of our lands that sacrifice themselves. This becomes a recursion engine for artifacts through buried ruin, a library thinner with any of the fetchlands, a stax effect with any of the lands that destroy lands, and a free permanent generator for a stax effect all in one.
RAMP
Mana Crypt - Basically the same as Sol Ring, although it allows for a turn one CMC 3 card which is really relevant in a deck like this. Nice also because it can be welded out when the damage drawback starts to become too much.
Coalition Relic - Great for some more colored mana, probably a weaker card though as I don't need it for mana fixing, considering changing this one out for something like Mind Stone as a lower cmc manafact.
Caged Sun - Mana doubler and goblin booster, works great with Mirrorworks as well, unfortunately not as effective as the other doublers as the CMC on this one is just too high and the benefit of it only affecting my cards isn't all that relevant in my meta as red is incredibly rare. Will consider trading this out for something more early and disruptive, but only after the next one is removed first.
Gauntlet of Power - Same purpose as the above, although 1 cmc less and affects my opponents. I would consider dropping this second to Extraplanar Lens due to the fact that it isn't board disadvantage which can end up being relevant in a deck such as this.
Gauntlet of Might - The best mana doubler of them all, this one comes in during the earlier turns and boosts a good portion of my relevant creatures, I would never consider cutting this card.
Extraplanar Lens - This one comes down incredibly early and it is for this reason alone that I have kept it in the deck. A nice bonus being that most people who do in fact run red in my meta only run it as a secondary color so no snow-covered mountains on their side.
Gilded Lotus - Works in the same way as Sol Ring and Mana Crypt do with Mirrororks, but on a higher level and colored mana, this card I can't see not running.
Koth of the Hammer - He untaps lands, works as a must answer wincon, and if necessary allows to cast another cmc 4 spell in the same turn.
Solemn Simulacrum - One of the ultimate goblin welder targets, works in any deck but this deck especially caters to it's power.
Card Advantage/Tutor
Expedition Map - This is ultimately used as a tutor for either Bazaar of Baghdad or Scrying Sheets for some great card advantage.
Mind's Eye - Works amazingly with the draw7 effects, if you have the excess mana(which happens a decent amount of the time) you can draw your library and lock the board before anyone has time or mana to even have a counter.
Planar Portal - Fitting as much consistency as possible in this deck is of utmost importance, although this is more of a midgame route, if we have the mana to be tutoring once per turn then we are winning.
Citanul Flute - Basically serves the same purpose as Planar Portal but simply for creatures, great tutor and usually goes for Imperial Recruiter first.[/CARD]
Hoarding Dragon - Artifact tutor in red is never something to scoff at. Typically you have to jump through hoops to get this guy in the graveyard but in a more destruction and sacrificial-based deck like this he is more reliable.
Imperial Recruiter - One of the best cards in the deck, period. He tutors for anything relevant, typically Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker first to continue the tutor chain for whatever else you need at the moment.
Moggcatcher - Repeatable tutor for goblins directly into play is incredibly powerful, my only problem with this one is that it runs out of things to grab fairly fast if used repeatedly, but by the time I get all my goblins out I usually have the board locked down anyhow.
Goblin Matron - Our second Imperial Recruiter, we play it tutoring Kiki typically as well and grab all the relevant goblins first.
Gamble - Tutor for R and a random discard is great, tutor for R when we have a chance to simply discard Squee is even better.
Sensei's Divining Top - Great card for sculpting our early game plays and welding late game. Especially helpful as well when we have a Mirrorworks in play and it becomes 3: Draw a card.
Scroll Rack - Great card for filtering our draws, combined with all the fetchlands we have available we can have pretty powerful access to what we draw in our deck. Also nice for the occasional combo when we can throw Molten Psyche on top of our library only to Wheel of Fortune into it and deal 14 damage to the entire table.
Skullclamp - Becomes a draw engine with squee once per turn. Once our tokens are put into the mix drawing a huge portion of our deck isn't unheard of.
Bazaar of Baghdad - This has amazing synergy with Squee and the deck as a whole. With Squee it becomes a draw 2 discard 2 which lends itself very nicely to our graveyard-based strategy.
Anvil of Bogardan - Becomes a one-sided Howling Mine for me when I have Squee. Also has synergy with Mind's Eye to draw off of that extra draw of our opponent's.
Removal
Steel Hellkite - Scary attacker in that it threatens all of our opponent's permanents, this guy is usually removal bait, but once he actually gets running(which is surprisingly often) he just rips our opponent's boards to shreds(what is left of them at least).
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage - With Squee around, we can have a lot of fun with Jaya throwing around locks against blue opponents and board wipes whenever necessary.
Duplicant- Great welder target for repeated removal, the exile clause is incredibly relevant.
Synergy
Icefall - Recurrable removal for artifacts and lands, works well once we get to saccing squee repeatedly.
Psychosis Crawler - A wincon once we get to chaining our draw7 cards. This guy can be a huge life swing and on top of that is weldable. It's not uncommon to get a 30+ life swing once this guy gets up with either a mirrorworks or molten psyche.
Elixir of Immortality - Allows to shuffle our dead goblins back into our libraries to be tutored out again, very useful effect and is nice when we can reuse it via copying of the welder/mirrorworks combo.
Vicious Shadows - This card wins games, that is all.
And last but not least....
LANDS
Darksteel Citadel - Same as furnace.
Scrying Sheets - Gives some possible card advantage.
Bloodstained Mire - Use with crucible to thin out deck and give reliable land drops.
Wooded Foothills - Same as last.
Arid Mesa - Ditto.
Scalding Tarn - ... yeah
Evolving Wilds - See above, minus the life loss and entering the battlefield untapped.
Terramorphic Expanse - You've got the idea.
Kher Keep - Ties up any extra mana I may have(and often do) for an extra permanent per turn for sacrificial purposes.
Buried Ruin - Absolutely amazing addition to this deck as it allows me to freely reanimate the artifact portion of this deck with the presence of crucible.
Snow-Covered Mountain Allows the extraplanar lense to be more one sided while offering another form of card advantage through the aforementioned scrying sheets.
Cards Up For Consideration/ Notable Exclusions
Explorer's Scope - Kinda the same deal as the satchel, although this one is great in that there is no mana investment after the equip, in the end i'm just not sure enough about this one and would probably just go for the satchel given a choice.
Claws of Gix - The ability to sacrifice any permanent is really the winner here, would also serve as a 0 cost artifact for a possible inclusion of mox opal.
Winter Orb - This would be absolutely amazing but as it stands I can lock the board out just fine without it, although it will still be up for consideration.
Tormod's Crypt - Grave hate is great, although those decks are slow enough that I'm not worried about their more late game strategies as I can use disruption to keep them off of their hard wincons until I am able to lock the gamestate completely.
Capricious Efreet - I like this as a possible removal option with no drawback with squee involved.
Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer - A tutor target that can protect my stax effects, not included as of now due to the fact that removal hasn't been a huge problem yet, but a definite consideration.
Masticore - This guy and his brethren have the potential to be quite the powerhouses, but I run enough discard effects as it stands and they just don't do enough otherwise to be worth it in this build. If anything I will consider throwing Razormane Masticore before any other due to his damage being free.
Winter Orb - This one is in all likelihood going to make it in eventually, it just hasn't been necessary because there's almost always enough land disruption that's one sided to go around. If this ever does make it in some of the mana doublers will probably come out as well since they have an inherent lack of synergy.
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle - Decided against this one in the long run because it just became win more and a basic land that interacted better with a mana-doubler/scrying sheets was preferable.
All in all I'd appreciate any and all suggestions for this deck, it's been my baby for awhile now and it'd always be great to see it grow. For anyone who wants to test it here is a link to the decklist on tappedout. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/squee-pheonix-king/
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=307453
I see you're rocking the monored, props. Always been my favourite mono-colour (my Godo list just wrecks people). Just quickly glanced at your decklist, which is actually very good. You're pulling off some great synergy here. I'd definitely include Hoarding Dragon as it's another great way to tutor out the oh-so-lovely clamp or a Gauntlet. Another great addition would be Darksteel Ingot for more ramp over, say Ichor Wellspring (kinda meh).
One of my favourite red cards is Viashino Heretic. He is just such a beast. Magus of the Moon and Blood Moon punish those who deviate from the power of red. For these, I'd replace Elixir of Vitality, Platinum Emperion (you already have the Angel and not everyone wins through damage, so he's not only worst, but he costs more mana), and I appreciate the secret tech, but not a big fan of Gustha's Scepter.
Tired now, I'll take another look after sleep.
As for what to take out I definitely think that the Platinum Emperion is underperforming, and agree that it should be taken out. In regards to removing the Ichor Wellspring, I think I might actually stick with it, since the deck likes to try to pull out the welder quite often, this artifact in particular becomes a wellspring of card advantage (excuse the pun). Also a cantrip isn't too awful even by itself as well. I also will have to keep the Elixir of Immortality which I believe you were referring to and also Gustha's Scepter as the card selection these guys offer is great in such a chaos oriented deck.
Also to perhaps help out with how elixir synergizes with the deck I think I will remove Goblin Recruiter for Moggcatcher as the repeatable tutor is amazing for when I sack a goblin to put him in the grave and then shuffle them back in.
The Moons I do really like, just when building the deck and putting my Bazaar of Baghdad in there I got paranoid as to whether or not i'd kill it's advantage with it, but now that seems fairly trivial after playing with the deck after awhile, but now my problem lies with what to remove for it. Also Viashino Heretic is just plain amazing, but the lack of synergy might hurt him so for now i'll look for what to take out and consider him on the side, before the moons.
So as it stands here are the changes... for now of course
-1 Goblin Recruiter ... +1 Moggcatcher
-1 Platinum Emperion ... +1 Hoarding Dragon
Once again I really appreciate your suggestions, and i'll continue to consider them throughout the editing process.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=307453
also is serum powder really necessary? do you play in a cutthroat environment that they dont have some special mulligan rule?
i would play mind stone instead
As for Serum Powder, it has never not been good, but it also hasn't necessarily been the best card in the world either. My environment isn't cutthroat like you say, I have just wanted for this deck to be as consistant as possible and being able to get rid of a possibly bad hand full of non-necessary cards and start out with a deck full of 92 cards rather than 99 makes a big difference in the long-run. Also when it is in my opening hand and there are cards that I want I can always do a partial paris mulligan to get rid of said cards and then exile from there. That said it is based a good bit on luck, but so is everything else in the end :D. I might consider another ramp spell like Mind Stone or perhaps Magus of the Moon, but for now I think i'll continue to test it.
All in all I think i'll take out godo for blood moon for testing, and if that doesn't work out I might consider putting in terramorphic expanse and evolving wilds for some more fetches to work with crucible to thin out the deck.
-1 Godo, Bandit Warlord... +1 Blood Moon
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=307453
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
One thing I noticed that you don't seem to have are the various Masticores. Back in the day, I recall that they liked to utilize Squee's services. Any reason why they aren't in here?
EDIT: I understand the need for Squee to be in hand in order to get Masticores to work right, but I figured you must already have ways to put Squee in hand, otherwise there wouldn't be much of a reason to play him at all, right?
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
He's an interesting choice, but I'm still unsure as to what to take out/if he will even be useful. Typically removal of my pieces isn't too much of a problem since I kill/limit their resources enough to keep them off of it. I'll do some testing...
Thanks for the kind comment! I take great pride in originality.
As for the masticores, they were tested at one point and were decidedly either too mana intensive or just don't do enough. Plus it isn't necessary to run too many discard outlets as squee can only be discarded/sacced once per turn. Although they are always worth considering in a SqueEDH so I will go ahead and include them in the "Notable Exclusions" section.
Also squee get's into my grave pretty quickly typically whether it's from a chump block, a stax effect, or a sac effect. And then it's just a matter of waiting til my next turn to get him into my hand.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=307453
Go Squee, Goblin Nabob!
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
Thanks so much! Unfortunately it's been banned in 2/4 of my playgroups due to the anger lockout strategies cause in most people.
Haha woops for some reason I didn't have this listed on the decklist even though it exists in my RL one, thanks for pointing it out!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=307453
I thought it was strange since your list looks really tuned. While not really on theme Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle is pretty good in monored.
I had it in an earlier iteration of the deck, but it got removed when I went through and limited the non-basics due to it not doing enough. I'll go ahead and throw it in the notable exclusions section though.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=307453
Seriously? They ban Mono-Red Stax, but allow Blue/Black to be in the playgroup. That makes sense, D'oh. You just showed them that Red can be good! Godo-Stax is my favorite deck of all time, it's mean if your not prepared.
I'm glad someone is representing Red in EDH. Too many people just look at Red as a support colour, even the advance players (Sigh). What fools.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
Haha yeah it is a bit odd I suppose compared to most groups, but one of the two groups runs almost solely janky decks based around themes/convoluted combos and the like. The other group is simply unwilling to put the time/funds into coming up with a counter strategy.
I guess red control just goes "over the edge" of controlliness :rolleyes:.
As for Godo he seems like he could be quite the contender what with cards like Argentum Armor floating around. Please do post your decklist as i'd be very interested in seeing your approach.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=307453
I use Genesis Chamber in my Norin deck and it has proven a great clamp engine and I would imagine it could be even better in stax. It does help others who play creatures though... just a thought.
What would you say about Manic Vandal? He's good artifact removal and can be doubled with Kiki. Triggers the aforementioned Chamber too.
I always suggest Trash for Treasure to mono-red players. I'm actually very surprised I didn't mention it in my earlier post. Recursion is always useful (especially when you are recurring Smokestack) and it's just amazing with Spine of Ish Sah.
Just a few thoughts, I'll definitely come up with more. I love tuning red.
EDIT: I just took a look at your tappedout list and it's considerably different. I realize you're already playing Trash and a few other things. I would probably include Buried Ruin in your list, as it's also useful for recurring the bucketful of artifacts you play.
Thanks for taking a second look! It has changed a great deal since your last look on it and I still need to renovate the first post with some more descriptions but the jank has been removed for the most part. As for the tappedout list I am about to change that as well as it is an earlier iteration of the deck.
Genesis Chamber - Has been tested in the past and wasn't found to be all that amazing even given the possibilities for skullclamp. I will reconsider it's inclusion and test it out these next couple games as squee and other creatures do tend to get thrown around a lot. A BIG problem I have with it is that it helps your opponents with permanent generation as well.
Manic Vandal - If I were to include him I would have to put Tuktuk Scrapper in first as he is a tutor target for all of my tutors and has the same effect. As a whole it would be a slot well used but as it stands I have never hurt for dedicated artifact destruction as my general permanent destruction and forced saccing has been enough. I will go ahead and add both of these cards to the up for consideration section.
Trash for Treasure was included in an earlier version of the deck as you can see on tappedout currently, but was found to be a bit too weak whenever both Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Anarchist weren't present at the same time. All that said I will still include it in the consideration section since it has great potential given the right support.
Also for some reason I didn't update the list with buried ruin in this one, I'll really have to keep a better eye on this thread.
Any suggestions for what to take out for your possible inclusions overall? It's incredibly difficult to decide on cuts since the list has gotten so tight.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=307453
Godo, is ridiculous. Godo + Grafted Exoskeleton = Prepare for complaints. Read the last post, Trash for Treasure is amazing. More Goblin Welder effects!
Lately, I've been messing around with Sharuum Stax. Check it out! It works really well, even if I lose, I make them work. Thopter + Sword are the only "infinite" combos I run in there. Mostly, it's there for Smokestack/Braids, Cabal Minion and chumps.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
There are a few cards in your tappedout list that I'd keep an eye on because I think they could potentially be replaced.
I can see Ice Cauldron and Gustha's Scpter being super pet-cards but I'm not sure they're worth the cut. Maybe you could explain what you usually do with them and how they contribute to your strategy?
I'm not sure about Mirrorworks as it's a little expensive. Maybe Sculpting Steel could replace it, or if it's working for you, could work alongside it?
I'm not so sure about Serum Powder either. It could be replaced with Mindstone if you'd like to keep the ramp. It has some added utility too.
Another option for inclusion could be Wurmcoil Engine. It's a strong card overall and makes tokens. Not great, but another option.
Steel Hellkite is another card I think mono-red and black decks like, mostly due to its ability to deal with enchantments. Other than that, it's still a solid card.
Just a few thoughts.
Unfortunately the tappedout list isn't my current one, as i said in my last post. So most of the suggestions for removal have already been performed. Mirrorworks is one of the best cards in the deck and I can't see myself removing it any time soon. As for Sculpting Steel, I will need to test but it looks promising! Nice find there. Wurmcoil Engine is also another option that would be great to consider, but I've found my current weldable artifacts to be great. I will go ahead and put him in the possibility section though in the case of me ever needing a bit of life gain in which case I will put him over Pentavus.
Haha I bet he cleans up quickly with that on the field. Although it doesn't seem very staxy :D. As for trash for treasure, I'll give it another chance since you both seem mildly adamant on it... ON TO TESTING!!!!
And i'll go ahead and check out your sharuum deck!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=307453
Wurmcoil Engine is really good. Give it a try. I have a bad tendency of running Steel Hellkite, Wurmcoil Engine, Sundering Titan in all my decks. They generate card advantage, that's my excuse. If you get coloured screwed, you can still cast them!
My Stax build is really similar to yours but I go all or nothing Stax with 2-4 win conditions.
Trinisphere, Thorn of Amethyst, Sundering Titan, and Lodestone Golem our champs in my playgroup. There's always a dual land to destroy and our cmc is fairly low, usually below 3. 40%~ of all our spells played in a normal game are below 3 :P.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
EDH:
:symb::symb::symb: The Horde! :symb::symb::symb:
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
Dralnu- Dimir Snap!
:symwu::symur::symrw: Zedruu the Greathearted :symrw::symur::symwu:
:symwu::symub::symwb: Zur the Enchanter :symwb::symub::symwu:
Kumano, Master Yamabushi
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben