MTG Salvation

I've been brewing this list up since I saw her get spoiled in person at PAX East. A lot of cards you'd think were obvious includes are not in here because I feel Nin is powerful enough not to need much support. I just play with good, valuable utility creatures and a few game-enders and use Nin to find them.

The skeleton strategy used to be built around ETB abuse. It still kind of is, but I've pulled out some underwhelming ones like Cloudstone Curio and I'm in transition to a plan more focused on stealing opponent's creatures and sacrificing them to decent sac outlets. Nin really likes ETB creatures because once you play the creature, you've probably gotten the value out of it you wanted and hitting the creature with Nin's activated ability is a great way to *squeeze* additional value out of them. She also really likes stolen creatures because... well, that should be obvious.

I'd like give a special thanks to Robby Rothe (MTGColorPie here on the forums) and point to the article he wrote recently that helped change the way I thought about some card choices. Also to ISBPathfinder and Donald for their multitude of suggestions, many of which have I have happily included in the deck. I'm still trying very hard to pry myself away from my "goodstuff" tendencies.

For the uninitiated, allow me to introduce you to my friend Nin:



I know, right? Spicy!

Quote from SuperSonik

Nin is one of five new enemy bi-colored Commanders (in addition to 10 new wedge-colored Commanders) in the Commander pre-constructed decks announced for June of this year. She was spoiled at a Commander panel at PAX East.

Check out the Arcana announcement and the PAX East spoilers.

Now, the deck:



There's some stuff in here specifically for Nin. Stuffy Doll is obvious. Psychosis Crawler is gross because you can't kill him outright with Nin's ability- his P/T is changed before SBAs try to kill him, so he lives. Basilisk Collar makes her a killing machine. Aura Thief is one of two ways to deal with enchantments with this deck and it's quite easy to kill him. And Niv benefits from all the same stuff Nin does, so it'd be pretty silly not to play him here. I had Darksteel Plate in here but I ended up cutting it for Sword of Light and Shadow because it was much more versatile and actually let me recycle some creatures with the recursion. Also, seeing as how I can turn mana into cards with my Commander, Mana Geyser and Sword of Feast and Famine are completely bananas with Nin.

I don't like to play with infinites. So no Intruder Alarm, Pestermite, Mind Over Matter, etc. Also, Imperial Recruiter would be awesome, but hey, I prefer him in the form of two $100 bills, personally.

Feel free to post your comments and suggestions! Please recommend cuts as well as new cards- the deck tops out at 100, after all.

Great deck idea! I really like where this is going.

I would still suggest inferno titan. It's such a great removal "spell" plus it is even better with basilisk collar, which you can fetch with trinket mage, etc.

Also, vendilion clique seems to fit rather nicely in the deck. Low cc, disruption and good to shoot down later. Sower of temptation perhaps?

I could see him replacing Aftershock (Edit: Replaced Bogardan Hellkite instead. Thanks!). He is a house with the collar. I love that card's versatility though and its lower casting cost though so we'll see I guess.

Clique for Sower is a good suggestion. Not to mention the synergy with Riptide Laboratory. Thanks! I'll have to try to get one. I'm not crazy about the Sower anyway because I don't want to give up the creature I steal at the time of my opponents' choosing. It sets up a possible blowout against me and I never like to play cards that let my opponents choose when to make them work against me.

What about Spitebellows for a card that you get a benefit from dying? Or even Homura, Human Ascendant?

If Keiga, the Tide Star didn't make this deck*, there's no way those other chumps would have

In general, I find GY triggers less reliable. I don't like waiting to get what I pay for. Say I tap out for a Spitebellows or Keiga and the next player plays a Wrath. Or Swords to Plowshares. Or worse, Control Magic? Then what? Wasted. I've let my opponent decide when I should get my effect. I am not a fan of this.

Now if I played Duplicant instead, or even Vendillion Clique, then at least I impacted the game in a meaningful way with my mana. This is why I went all out with the ETB effects. I would rather have the payoff now, when I cast the spell than wait for an opponent to mess up my opportunity.

What's more, I find Nin's ability so innately powerful that I don't care if I end up killing one of my ETB creatures, be it a 2/2 or a 3/1 or whatever. The amount of cards I'd be drawing more than makes up for it. She just doesn't need that much help.

GY triggers are an interesting approach to go with her, but it's for another deck entirely. One with lots of sac outlets and recursion.

*I am pretty bummed about cutting Keiga still. It's a fantastic blocker with a stupid-powerful effect. And mine is foiled. If I find the deck has extra mana for its spells, Keiga is probably the first card to get put back in.

I got the chance to play and win a nice long 4-player game the other night. Insurrection is the best spell in this deck bar none. I'm almost getting bored of winning with it but I can't take it out or else the power level would suffer too much. Maybe people will start playing sac outlets?

After the Insurrection nuking the dominant player and leaving me alone with the mono-white deck, I had a little trouble closing the deal on his 35 life without drawing about another 20+ cards. The *actual* threat density of this deck is on the low side. Psychosis Crawler and Stuffy Doll both ate removal spells. Sure, Body Double and Sakashima are gross clone cards but if there's nothing good to clone, they're not that useful. Hell, at one point, I had to use my kicked Rite of Replication on a Riftwing Cloudskate just to not die. That's good and all, but it's not what I had in mind when I put that card in my deck.

To remedy this condition (which I'm not sure needs a remedy but whatever), I'd like to add Kozilek, Butcher of Truth and/or Frost Titan or Tidespout Tyrant as a way to add some bite to Nin's bark. What would you guys suggest I cut (or not)? Kozilek is more important because he recycles my yard, which is something I can't do right now.

I would run Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre over Kozilek since Ulamog can act as spot removal for enchantments, is harder to kill and you really should not be hurting for card drawing in this deck. Another hidden gem that would be great here is Aura Thief. He's easy to kill off and you can look at him as a really weird Academy Rector. I really liked running him in my U/R Jhoira deck because enchantments can be a hassle for this color combination. Lastly with all the card draw available to you Forbid would be excellent for locking up the late game and is just a generally amazing card anyways. I'm not a big fan of Frost Titan in here and Tidespout Tyrant is an infinite mana enabler which I believe is something you are trying to avoid (Sol Ring + Tormod's Crypt for example). It's pretty difficult to set up in your deck but I tend to avoid the Tyrant because of these types of interactions since my group does not like infinite combos too much.

Quote from Donald

I would run Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre over Kozilek since Ulamog can act as spot removal for enchantments, is harder to kill and you really should not be hurting for card drawing in this deck. Another hidden gem that would be great here is Aura Thief. He's easy to kill off and you can look at him as a really weird Academy Rector. I really liked running him in my U/R Jhoira deck because enchantments can be a hassle for this color combination. Lastly with all the card draw available to you Forbid would be excellent for locking up the late game and is just a generally amazing card anyways. I'm not a big fan of Frost Titan in here and Tidespout Tyrant is an infinite mana enabler which I believe is something you are trying to avoid (Sol Ring + Tormod's Crypt for example). It's pretty difficult to set up in your deck but I tend to avoid the Tyrant because of these types of interactions since my group does not like infinite combos too much.

Those are some good points Donald. Thanks for the input!

I usually just default to Kozilek over Ulamog but in this deck, you are certainly right that I have more than enough card draw and other enchantments are absolutely a problem. Hell, just the other night I had a Saffi deck's Sigil of the New Dawn blocking my Mimic Vat triggers and it was pretty annoying that the Manic Vandal in my hand couldn't do anything to help the situation. (Funniest part- I cast Gamble to get Venser and out of a 9-card hand, I had to discard Venser at the end.)

Forbid would definitely be very good in this deck. I'll have to play it a bit more and see what I want to cut. I usually go from Hinder to Dissipate as the one-two punch for 3 CMC counters but Forbid is leaps and bounds more useful than that with Nin. Maybe I'll cut Cryptic Command?

And if I ever steal one Mana Reflection with an Aura Thief, it would be worth 5 lost games. I do have one- I should think about making room for him.

EDIT: Replaced Cryptic Command with Forbid and Mogg Maniac with Aura Thief. I don't have an Ulamog yet but he'd be next.

Quote from KriggY

Im courious from which set or product is your general? Or did you create her yourself? thanks

Nin is one of five new enemy bi-colored Commanders (in addition to 10 new wedge-colored Commanders) in the Commander pre-constructed decks announced for June of this year. She was spoiled at a Commander panel at PAX East.

Check out the Arcana announcement and the PAX East spoilers.

i am testing a Nin deck myself, & i find that the endgame needed a bit of a punch, i personally run stalking vengeance & some kind of sac outlet like high market or claws of gix, combine with cards like cauldron of souls (sac all your creatures to kill target player w/ vengeance, then get them all back).

(not to mention, cauldron of souls w/ ETB creatures +sac outlet is just too useful)

even better is theft techniques, steal their creatures, attack, & then sac them, then do damage with stalking vengeance... not a card to underestimate in this deck.

EDIT: i see you are running kiki-jiki, which also fits perfectly with stalking vengeance.

Quote from zorenathres

i am testing a Nin deck myself, & i find that the endgame needed a bit of a punch, i personally run stalking vengeance & some kind of sac outlet like high market or claws of gix, combine with cards like cauldron of souls (sac all your creatures to kill target player w/ vengeance, then get them all back).

(not to mention, cauldron of souls w/ ETB creatures +sac outlet is just too useful)

even better is theft techniques, steal their creatures, attack, & then sac them, then do damage with stalking vengeance... not a card to underestimate in this deck.

EDIT: i see you are running kiki-jiki, which also fits perfectly with stalking vengeance.

Stalking Vengeance is definitely good but he's an awful lot of mana for me. I do realize it's quite good though with unlimited sac outlets like Ashnod's Altar and persist, but at that point it's a three card combo. I don't feel like I have enough high-power creatures to make a big dent in anyone.

You know what sac outlet would be better than the claws though? Since we're in red, Greater Gargadon would be dopey. AND he's a hasty 9/7 that eats titans, which definitely counts as a threat.

So if I add the Gargadon (which I might), then maybe I'd think about Stalking Vengeance over something else. I probably still have too much non-general card draw in the deck like Rhystic Study and Fact or Fiction.

EDIT: You know what? I'm going to try GG over Rhystic Study (or possibly Fact or Fiction) as soon as I get the chance. I was so bummed the other night I couldn't get my Body Double on my Mimic Vat and I don't want to be in that position again. Thanks for leading me to this decision

no prob, & yea, GG seems like a solid choice, i didnt even think of it!

I'm seriously digging this deck list. Any thoughts on additions from New Phyrexia?

Chancellor of the Spires do eet

Quote from ISBPathfinder

Chancellor of the Spires do eet

dood you know I will as soon as it comes out. That's an ETB creature that I can get behind! I may just replace Knowledge Exploitation for it. It's a similar effect, it's a creature that can be abused, and it's the same CMC. Perfect swap I think.

Edit: man you're coming up on 1000 posts- don't waste it!

Just wanted to say so far that Aura Thief has been VERY good. I was very surprised. The last time I used him, he literally won me the game. Was staring down lethal next turn from a double striking, lifelinking Jenara when I topped for Gamble, Gambled for the thief (and discarded a land for once!), played the Thief and hit him with Nin, stealing both Aura Shards (a super house in this deck amirite) and True Conviction while drawing two cards. I think he's earned his spot so far.

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OK, rather than double-posting I'll use this as an opportunity to look at what NPH might bring to the deck:

Karn Liberated- Meh. Vindicates are good as I have very few ways to deal with enchantments but I have no ways to abuse him and I'm enough of a target already without him crashing the party. I see very very instances where he'll be anything other than :7mana:: Vinidate, Fog the next player.

Chancellor of the Spires- Memory Plunder on ETB? On a 5/7 flying body? SCORE. I'll take him over Knowledge Exploitation any day being a 5/7 flyer with the potential for abuse in this deck. Being a creature is a huge bonus. His opening hand ability is just gravy.

Deceiver Exarch- A Kiki-Jiki target that triggers infinite hasty 1/4's. I'm not a fan of creating infinite anything though, so I don't plan to use this. As if Pestermite wasn't bad enough...

Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur- Bleh. Mana cost is a huge turnoff. This deck has a billion ways to draw cards anyway. I'd rather pay one more mana for Ulamog so I can actually deal with enchantments and recycle my yard.

Phyrexian Ingester- Duplicant after a hell of an off-season training regimen. This guy's ready to play, but at 7 mana he's going to have to earn his spot. He certainly won't replace the original Duplicant and I'm not sure I have room for two. Maybe I'll ditch Treachery since I always feel dirty when I play that card... but I probably wont.

Phyrexian Metamorph- I think the reduced mana cost and the ability to copy artifacts make him better and more versatile than Sakashima, whose other selling point is merely that she can copy legends. He'll make it in I'm sure.

Geosurge- Normally card disadvantage, this is actually card advantage with Nin, translating to an extra drawn card off her ability. (oopsies- RTFC dude). Still, it's a worse Mana Geyser, a card I may be adding anyway.

Urabrask, the Hidden- I don't care much for the haste ability but the Kismet on my opponents does get me a bit excited. I think that without a good ETB ability he just isn't going synergize well with the rest of my deck.

Caged Sun- Naming blue with this would be pretty bananas. I'm not sure it's going to fit in the deck but it translates to drawing approximately a gazillion cards with Nin, so I'd be silly not to think about it.

Spellskite- A good potential target for Nin while protecting her at the same time. Probably wont make it but worth a mention. Fun fact- do you know that he can steal your opponents equip abilities if they can't repay them? Great tech against Argentum Armor I guess...

Also considering from the existing pool of cards:


And a final note on cards that hurt Nin and I from the new set:

Torpor Orb, Omen Machine: These cards completely hose my entire deck. UGH. I may find myself packing more artifact removal like Ingot Chewer or something if this crap catches on. Omen Machine is legitimately good in Red and White decks that have few ways to gain CA and I think it will see play among smart players. I wouldn't build Jor Kadeen without it.

Sadly I wasted my 1,000th I wanted to do something cool for it but I realized at like 1002 that I missed it

Good overview of NPH I hadnt even noticed that Spellskite could redirect abilities to himself that originally couldn't target him like equip lol. Sort of a fun and mean thing to do. I think I would use him the most to just stop Uril, the Miststalker from getting anything equiped to himself.

I am glad that Aura Thief is panning out for you. I love the hell out of him in Teferi as I will just flash him in blocking a fatty lol.

Geosurge only allows you to cast creature and artifact spells with the mana so it seems pretty awful. The only new cards for this deck out of the new set I think are the Chancelor and Phyrexian Metamorph. I believe you cannot redirect equipment since they can only legally equip to a target they control and Spellskite can't switch targets if they become illegal. I can definitely vouch for Mana Geyser, it's actually pretty disgusting in 4+ people games. Later in the game it is not uncommon to get around 30 mana, now if only there was a way to turn that mana into cards...

Wow Donald I am impressed by my idiocy every day. Thanks for pointing out my mistakes in the read the card/follow the rules department. I am definitely going to work to make room for Mana Geyser as well. I think not having it in here was just a case of the card being under my radar.

What would you guys cut? I think either Fact or Fiction or Rhystic Study would go. They both seem quite poor compared to Mana Geyser with Nin in play. I could go either way.

Ok note taken thanks for the correction Donald.

Good call on the Mana Geyser as well. I sort of thought you would have had it on the list already

EDIT: I thought I would mention Vedalken Aethermage as well as it can tutor into you commander if she gets tucked or go for one of the several other wizard options you have in the decklist.

Yeah it's a common ritual from a set I've never played (I started at ZEN block) so I just didn't know it existed outside of the Reiterate/Mana Geyser infinite.

Crushing dreams, that's what I'm here for.:p

Riptide Shapeshifter might be another creature you look at. It isnt cheap to drop and activate at the same time but I have seen some limited use for it in the past. Especially when using him to tutor into an eldrazi or something rediculous. You have a lot of unique creature types for him to hit but its tough to drop him and activate in one turn.

Quote from ISBPathfinder

I thought I would mention Vedalken Aethermage as well as it can tutor into you commander if she gets tucked or go for one of the several other wizard options you have in the decklist.

A wizard tutor is quite nice. I consistently forget that this card exists for the same reason I forgot about Mana Geyser- I have never played with it before.

Quote from ISBPathfinder

Riptide Shapeshifter might be another creature you look at. It isnt cheap to drop and activate at the same time but I have seen some limited use for it in the past. Especially when using him to tutor into an eldrazi or something rediculous. You have a lot of unique creature types for him to hit but its tough to drop him and activate in one turn.

I know about this guy, at least. I got one a while ago when I ran Blue Braids. The cost worries me quite a bit too. I feel like instead of him, I'd just play another threat or the ones I already have. I suppose he'd always make the cut over Citanul Flute though! I think I'll remove that bit about the flute from the OP.

I would love to say some Twincast effects would be great for you but looking at your deck I feel like you could use a bit more creatures / fattys to beat some face in with.

I hate to ask as I know he is a bit of a dick of a creature but have you considered Sundering Titan? He is a real jerk of a LD monster but he works great as an enters battlefield triger sort of guy.

Dominus of Fealty is a real mean tactic as well because you can steal creatures, swing in with them then shock the life out of them using Nin to draw you cards and solve enemies creatures.

Tidespout Tyrant once again fits your bounce tactics while giving you a bit of a fatty.

EDIT: Also you should take a look at Braid of Fire for the deck. It is another big mana card that could be great for Nin

Quote from ISBPathfinder

I would love to say some Twincast effects would be great for you but looking at your deck I feel like you could use a bit more creatures / fattys to beat some face in with.

I hate to ask as I know he is a bit of a dick of a creature but have you considered Sundering Titan? He is a real jerk of a LD monster but he works great as an enters battlefield triger sort of guy.

Dominus of Fealty is a real mean tactic as well because you can steal creatures, swing in with them then shock the life out of them using Nin to draw you cards and solve enemies creatures.

Tidespout Tyrant once again fits your bounce tactics while giving you a bit of a fatty.

EDIT: Also you should take a look at Braid of Fire for the deck. It is another big mana card that could be great for Nin

I love twincast effects like crazy (even played it in standard Runeflare Trap) but you're right, I'm looking for fat if anything. Yet another reason I'm excited about the blue Chancellor

Sundering Titan has been on my radar. My friend started playing a Saffi deck that abuses Primeval Titan built off Telekenesis's decklist and I have considered him there. I'm not going to worry about the LD strategy for now though since he's leaving town in a month. I also keep two decks (this one and another mono-white, Darien) and frequently loan out the mono-white one to other players. I don't think it's fair to include a card that completely hoses the mono-colored deck I'm lending to others :rolleyes:. He would be nuts though, I agree.

The Dominus is hot stuff but it doesn't give me any ETB triggers and is usually a 6 or 7 drop because I can't use colorless mana to cast it. The ETB equivalent of him is Sower of Temptation and the competition is fierce. With either, I love the synergy with Nin and High Market and possibly Greater Gargadon to keep them from getting it back. I could potentially cut the Baboons or something but then my only non-basic land hate is Strip Mine and Vesuva. It would probably be a bulk swap where I bring in Dominus, Sower and Gargadon for the batch synergy and then remove some guys. Either way, thanks for bringing him up.

Tidespout Tyrant + Sol Ring + Tormod's Crypt is infinite mana, as Donald kindly pointed out earlier in the thread. I have definitely considered him though. He is certainly a wincon when left unchecked.

The thing I don't like about Braid of Fire is that it forces me to use Nin on my upkeep and it's really a poor topdeck. I actually don't have that many instants in the deck that can take advantage of it either. I agree there is potential in other Nin builds (particularly ones with more indestructible dudes) but it doesn't do much for me in this one.