Introduction
I enjoy long games where players try to gain incremental advantages in various resources. Commander is the best place for this to happen; unfortunately due to variance, and a variety of other problems, we sometimes don't get there. And so I set out to tackle the problem, of how best to encourage the type of games I like. Fast mana and other 'good' things are right out; fast mana ends games quickly way to often. It encourages degenerate play, the very opposite of how I like to play: doing marginal things repeatedly, until they become good.
In order to better facilitate the spirit of the game, I imposed 3 rules upon myself:
1.) Budget Mana Base: No fetches, or 'Duals', simply because not everyone I play with can afford them.
2.) No Infinite Combos, No Mass Land Destruction: Other people can run them. I'll run them in other decks. Not here.
3.) Multiple Paths to Victory: Winning the same way every game is boring.
And so it began, the quest for the mid-range pile of myth. I wanted something to fit all occasions, whether I'm playing with cutthroats or someone who just opened a precon. Overall, I'm not unhappy with how the experiment turned out.
You'll Enjoy Playing this deck if...
You like dynamic game play.
You like doing good, but not 'broken' things.
You like ETB interactions, Flashback, and beating down with a 5/5 Haste, Vigilance, Trample (that occasionally has Flying, Doublestrike, Deathtouch and Lifelink) Theme
Flashback
Enters the Battlefield Creatures
How To...
How does the deck play?
This is a jack of all trades pile. While you do have end games, they cannot reasonably be assembled before turn 5, and even then, not consistently. Early on stop other people from getting too far ahead with Ancient Grudge, Ray of Revelation, or Stony Silence. Clear the board with Merciless Eviction, Pernicious Deed, or Supreme Verdict .
-Early Game
Usually you'll be reacting to the other players, keeping the dirtier combos off the table, and making sure no one player's board gets out of control. You've got removal of all kinds. Try to keep fast early mana off the table. -Mid Game
Start moving towards one of your 4 end games: Hunting Grounds, Prismatic Omen + Emeria, the Sky Ruin/Last Stand, or Silverblade Paladin/Rubblehulk/Wrecking Ogre, Prophet of Kruphix / Seedborn Muse + Alchemist's Refuge. -Late Game
One of your many recursion engines is probably online. Horde of Notions can 2 shot players with relative ease. Hunting Grounds does everything. Prismatic Omen/Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + Last Stand can off a player. Seedborn Muse and Prophet of Kruphix can
Engines?
I call them engines, because the interactions are generally to marginal to be called combos. Prismatic Omen + Emeria, the Sky Ruin/or Last Stand: My signature combo, present in the deck since its inception 6 years ago. Prismatic Omen enables a truly glorious Last Stand, gaining a ton of life, many saproling tokens, killing a creature, and draining an opponent for 14-18 on average. Last Stand can also be used as a burnspell when paired with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Astral Slide + Life From the Loam/Realms Uncharted/ Tilling Treefolk/Eternal Witness: Astral slide is a sleeper. In almost any deck with a large amount of creatures, and access to green, Astral Slide is very playable. The 5 onslaught Cycle lands are more than enough to power the Slide, and combined with the above enablers, you have a versatile engine that can abuse ETB effects, negate attackers, and just generally be a nuisance. Hunting Grounds: Relatively easy to set up, and often self powering. Putting a Fierce Empath/Rune-scarred Demon/Sphinx of Uthuun into play is very tough to beat. Eventually you can set up the Hunting Grounds + Kederekt Leviathan + Restoration Angel soft lock. Adding other cards into the mix (Mystic Snake, Fierce Empath, Sun Titan) result in a degenerate board state. Prophet of Kruphix and Seedborn Muse: Hunting Grounds #'s 2 and 3.
The Work Horses:
Quiet Speculation: The tutor to end all tutors. The default package is almost always Deep Analysis, Ancient Grudge, and Tracker's Instincts, but Cabal Coffers makes Increasing Ambition a real option.
Realms Uncharted: Choices! 4 Cycle Lands, effectively giving you a 5 mana Inspiration? 4 Bounce lands to ensure land drops? Tutoring for lands when you have Life from the Loam in hand? Options are numerous, and game state dependent.
Wargate: Oh wow. Do we get a land on turn 3? Do we wait for turn 5 to go get Prismatic Omen? Late game we can grab either Diluvian or Sepulchre Primordial!
Prismatic Omen: Fixes your mana and turns on Wonder, Last Stand, Emeria, and Cabal Coffers.
Crop Rotation: Often, you're better off waiting. Crop Rotation can grab a bounce land, grab a combo piece, remove a graveyard (Bojuka Bog), blow up a land (Ghost Quarter), or protect against removal (Volrath's Stronghold, Vault of the Archangel)
Wrecking Ogre / Rubblehulk / Silverblade Paladin: These guys enable fast (in # of swings) 21 General wins, at a very low cost. Horde can come down on turn 5, and get in some swings on different players. A board wipe or 2 later, and Horde can re-enter the battlefield and swing for 16 or more. For 3 cards, Horde becomes an omnipresent threat.
Sun Titan: He needs no introduction, but he does deserve special mention. In addition to all of the following, Sun Titan pseudo ramps by recurring lands I've dropped into the Grave! Cool Titan Targets: Silverblade Paladin, Astral Slide, Hunting Grounds, Phantasmal Image, Fleshbag Marauder, Harmonic Sliver, Pernicious Deed, Fierce Empath, Eternal Witness.
Hunting Grounds is alright. Later on it can be a lot of fun, and works well as a post-board sweeper threat, for only 2 mana. In the opening hand it tends to get discarded to bounce-land fodder. Its something i'll keep in mind for other decks; its the epitome of situationally awesome.
Decree of pain is probably my next addition. Thoughts?
Ashes of the Fallen I've never missed much. I recently up'ed the land-fall theme with Oracle of Mul Daya, Roil Elemental and Admonition Angel. Trying out Vengevine. He may not be good enough in the end, or may just need more low cost creatures.
Another year has come and gone; Horde remains my first and favorite general. I've dropped the landfall theme, opting for ETB effects instead. I've added some mana dorks. The current gameplan is dredge-y. As more than 20 cards have changed, I'll be updating the original post.
Currently, the list promotes a midrange game, stopping broken artifact based mana starts with Stony Silence, Gaddock Teeg and Viridian Shaman effects. Annoying combos meet Voidstone Gargoyle and Phyrexian Revoker (and Teeg!!).
The disruption allows you to assemble one of many Rube Goldberg machines.
This isn't a broken pile. Its my swiss army knife, playing well with some of the more cutthroat players and the strictly casual.
Everytime I think i'm done making changes, something new pops up.
With the clone changes, and my restrictions on slowing the game down, i'll want to invest in some real mass removal.
In: Mass Eviction, Supreme Verdict, Deep Reconnaissance, Momentary Blink
Out: Somberwald Sage, Hermit Druid, Phyrexian Revoker, Gaddock Teeg
Hermit Druid no longer serves much of a purpose, other than giving Threshold on demand. Teeg hurts me more now that I have real removal spells. Somberwald is terrible late game; the early game for this pile is nothing special. Revoker is just the weakest card left.
Wrecking Ogre is actually pretty good. 16 is a convenient number ( 1 swing before or after and its curtains!). Rubblehulk does the same thing, but isn't nearly as efficient. They both benefit from Horde of Notions being a Hasty Trampler.
I've tried to keep Artifacts to a minimum in here...(mostly so I can search up Stony Silence). Null Rod might be an idea. Recross The Paths is another Ramp Option.
I'll take note of Rubblehulk tonight, and see what the possibilities are if he was a Ramp Spell.
Thanks!
Commander 2013 and Theros have added some goodies. While Bane of Progress, Baleful Force, and Tidal Force are excellent elementals, and Theros has some interesting additions, I have two main concerns:
1) The deck is slow. ETBT lands, low amounts of mana accel... Horde is like a locomotive; it takes time to get up to speed.
2) Foils: I currently have 4 cards unfoiled (Though I hate the art on Maelstrom Wanderer): Command Tower, Life From The Loam, Izzet Boilerworks, and Karador.
The deck looks good the only thing that worries me is your land base, what I've learn from my horde deck is you want to get him out kinda early and hit someone a few times and you have a lot of ETB tapped lands, the other issue is you only have 1 basic of each type I don't know if your meta runs non basic hate but if it does that could hurt.
The deck looks good the only thing that worries me is your land base, what I've learn from my horde deck is you want to get him out kinda early and hit someone a few times and you have a lot of ETB tapped lands, the other issue is you only have 1 basic of each type I don't know if your meta runs non basic hate but if it does that could hurt.
Thanks for the kind words. You're analysis is pretty spot on. The deck can have very slow starts (no plays before turn 4 or 5), and Non-basic hate can be brutal.
Bloodmoon is a problem, as is Destructive Flow if it hits early enough. I have, and will again, take alot of damage from repeated Price of Progress. Overall, I'm content with the manabase. I originally built the deck with the stipulation that there be no Fetch-lands or 'Duals', and that hasn't changed in the ... 6 years I've been running this? In effect, I'm trapped by my own self imposed restrictions.
As far as early Horde of Notions: It's not really necessary. The Double Strike enablers, and Rubblehulk make me less dependent on incremental damage. Later on, anyone with 5 General has to play around Wrecking Ogre.
Last night, I foiled out the last card in Horde of Notions. Many games were had. Prophet of Kruphix and Seedborn Muse, recent additions, proved to be real power houses. Horde of Notions attacked as an 18/18 with Double Strike, Lifelink and Death Touch in addition to his usual host of abilities. Last Stand killed two people, and the 3rd was overrun by 26 1/1 Saprolings, and a Maelstrom Wanderer.
Good Times were had. To Shiny Foils and Long Term Projects!
I enjoy long games where players try to gain incremental advantages in various resources. Commander is the best place for this to happen; unfortunately due to variance, and a variety of other problems, we sometimes don't get there. And so I set out to tackle the problem, of how best to encourage the type of games I like. Fast mana and other 'good' things are right out; fast mana ends games quickly way to often. It encourages degenerate play, the very opposite of how I like to play: doing marginal things repeatedly, until they become good.
In order to better facilitate the spirit of the game, I imposed 3 rules upon myself:
1.) Budget Mana Base: No fetches, or 'Duals', simply because not everyone I play with can afford them.
2.) No Infinite Combos, No Mass Land Destruction: Other people can run them. I'll run them in other decks. Not here.
3.) Multiple Paths to Victory: Winning the same way every game is boring.
And so it began, the quest for the mid-range pile of myth. I wanted something to fit all occasions, whether I'm playing with cutthroats or someone who just opened a precon. Overall, I'm not unhappy with how the experiment turned out.
You'll Enjoy Playing this deck if...
You like dynamic game play.
You like doing good, but not 'broken' things.
You like ETB interactions, Flashback, and beating down with a 5/5 Haste, Vigilance, Trample (that occasionally has Flying, Doublestrike, Deathtouch and Lifelink)
Theme
Flashback
Enters the Battlefield Creatures
DECKLIST BY FUNCTION
1 Horde of Notions
Bringing the Pain!
1 Wrecking Ogre
1 Rubblehulk
1 Silverblade Paladin
Mana Acceleration
1 Bloom Tender
1 Far Wanderings
1 Deep Reconnaissance
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Prophet of Kruphix
1 Seedborn Muse
Card Advantage/Tutors
1 Mulldrifter
1 Deep Analysis
1 Quiet Speculation
1 River Kelpie
1 Soul of the Harvest
1 Tracker's Instincts
1 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Rune-scarred Demon
1 Realms Uncharted
1 Crop Rotation
1 Tainted Pact
1 Wargate
1 Increasing Ambition
1 Fierce Empath
Recursion
1 Karmic Guide
1 Body Double
1 Reveillark
1 Sphinx of Uthuun
1 Life from the Loam
1 Sun Titan
1 Eternal Witness
1 Tilling Treefolk
1 Dread Return
1 Unburial Rites
1 Restoration Angel
1 Maelstrom Wanderer
1 Diluvian Primordial
1 Sepulchre Primordial
1 Last Stand
1 Hunting Grounds
Rube Goldberg Devices
1 Astral Slide
1 Prismatic Omen
1 Wonder
Keeping it Fair
1 Stony Silence
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Acidic Slime
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Ray of Revelation
Removal
1 Bant Charm
1 Shriekmaw
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Kederekt Leviathan
1 Crib Swap
1 Mystic Snake
Utility
1 Memory's Journey
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Momentary Blink
1 Stonecloaker
Lands 38
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Lonely Island
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Barren Moor
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Vesuva
1 Vivid Grove
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Vivid Crag
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Vivid Creek
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Command Tower
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Savage Lands
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Jungle Shrine
1 Seaside Citadel
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Ghost Quarter
DECKLIST BY MANACOST AND TYPE
1 Horde of Notions
Creatures
2 Bloom Tender
2 Phantasmal Image
3 Silverblade Paladin
3 Stonecloaker
3 Fierce Empath
3 Eternal Witness
3 Harmonic Sliver
3 Tilling Treefolk
3 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Wonder
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Restoration Angel
4 Mystic Snake
5 Shriekmaw
5 Wrecking Ogre
5 Prophet of Kruphix
5 Seedborn Muse
5 Mulldrifter
5 Acidic Slime
5 Karmic Guide
5 Body Double
5 Reveillark
5 River Kelpie
6 Rubblehulk
6 Sun Titan
6 Soul of the Harvest
7 Rune-scarred Demon
7 Sphinx of Uthuun
7 Diluvian Primordial
7 Sepulchre Primordial
8 Kederekt Leviathan
8 Maelstrom Wanderer
2 Tracker's Instincts
2 Quiet Speculation
2 Life from the Loam
3 Wargate
3 Far Wanderings
3 Deep Reconnaissance
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Deep Analysis
4 Dread Return
5 Unburial Rites
5 Last Stand
5 Increasing Ambition
6 Merciless Eviction
Instants
1 Crop Rotation
2 Tainted Pact
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Memory's Journey
2 Momentary Blink
3 Forbidden Alchemy
3 Realms Uncharted
3 Crib Swap
3 Bant Charm
Enchantment
2 Prismatic Omen
2 Stony Silence
3 Astral Slide
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Hunting Grounds
Lands 38
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Lonely Island
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Barren Moor
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Vesuva
1 Vivid Grove
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Vivid Crag
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Vivid Creek
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Command Tower
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Savage Lands
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Jungle Shrine
1 Seaside Citadel
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Ghost Quarter
How To...
How does the deck play?
This is a jack of all trades pile. While you do have end games, they cannot reasonably be assembled before turn 5, and even then, not consistently. Early on stop other people from getting too far ahead with Ancient Grudge, Ray of Revelation, or Stony Silence. Clear the board with Merciless Eviction, Pernicious Deed, or Supreme Verdict .
-Early Game
Usually you'll be reacting to the other players, keeping the dirtier combos off the table, and making sure no one player's board gets out of control. You've got removal of all kinds. Try to keep fast early mana off the table.
-Mid Game
Start moving towards one of your 4 end games: Hunting Grounds, Prismatic Omen + Emeria, the Sky Ruin/Last Stand, or Silverblade Paladin/Rubblehulk/Wrecking Ogre, Prophet of Kruphix / Seedborn Muse + Alchemist's Refuge.
-Late Game
One of your many recursion engines is probably online. Horde of Notions can 2 shot players with relative ease. Hunting Grounds does everything. Prismatic Omen/Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + Last Stand can off a player. Seedborn Muse and Prophet of Kruphix can
Engines?
I call them engines, because the interactions are generally to marginal to be called combos.
Prismatic Omen + Emeria, the Sky Ruin/or Last Stand: My signature combo, present in the deck since its inception 6 years ago. Prismatic Omen enables a truly glorious Last Stand, gaining a ton of life, many saproling tokens, killing a creature, and draining an opponent for 14-18 on average. Last Stand can also be used as a burnspell when paired with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
Astral Slide + Life From the Loam/Realms Uncharted/ Tilling Treefolk/Eternal Witness: Astral slide is a sleeper. In almost any deck with a large amount of creatures, and access to green, Astral Slide is very playable. The 5 onslaught Cycle lands are more than enough to power the Slide, and combined with the above enablers, you have a versatile engine that can abuse ETB effects, negate attackers, and just generally be a nuisance.
Hunting Grounds: Relatively easy to set up, and often self powering. Putting a Fierce Empath/Rune-scarred Demon/Sphinx of Uthuun into play is very tough to beat. Eventually you can set up the Hunting Grounds + Kederekt Leviathan + Restoration Angel soft lock. Adding other cards into the mix (Mystic Snake, Fierce Empath, Sun Titan) result in a degenerate board state.
Prophet of Kruphix and Seedborn Muse: Hunting Grounds #'s 2 and 3.
The Work Horses:
Quiet Speculation: The tutor to end all tutors. The default package is almost always Deep Analysis, Ancient Grudge, and Tracker's Instincts, but Cabal Coffers makes Increasing Ambition a real option.
Realms Uncharted: Choices! 4 Cycle Lands, effectively giving you a 5 mana Inspiration? 4 Bounce lands to ensure land drops? Tutoring for lands when you have Life from the Loam in hand? Options are numerous, and game state dependent.
Wargate: Oh wow. Do we get a land on turn 3? Do we wait for turn 5 to go get Prismatic Omen? Late game we can grab either Diluvian or Sepulchre Primordial!
Prismatic Omen: Fixes your mana and turns on Wonder, Last Stand, Emeria, and Cabal Coffers.
Crop Rotation: Often, you're better off waiting. Crop Rotation can grab a bounce land, grab a combo piece, remove a graveyard (Bojuka Bog), blow up a land (Ghost Quarter), or protect against removal (Volrath's Stronghold, Vault of the Archangel)
Wrecking Ogre / Rubblehulk / Silverblade Paladin: These guys enable fast (in # of swings) 21 General wins, at a very low cost. Horde can come down on turn 5, and get in some swings on different players. A board wipe or 2 later, and Horde can re-enter the battlefield and swing for 16 or more. For 3 cards, Horde becomes an omnipresent threat.
Sun Titan: He needs no introduction, but he does deserve special mention. In addition to all of the following, Sun Titan pseudo ramps by recurring lands I've dropped into the Grave! Cool Titan Targets: Silverblade Paladin, Astral Slide, Hunting Grounds, Phantasmal Image, Fleshbag Marauder, Harmonic Sliver, Pernicious Deed, Fierce Empath, Eternal Witness.
My Trades
Decree of pain is probably my next addition. Thoughts?
My Trades
My Trades
Currently, the list promotes a midrange game, stopping broken artifact based mana starts with Stony Silence, Gaddock Teeg and Viridian Shaman effects. Annoying combos meet Voidstone Gargoyle and Phyrexian Revoker (and Teeg!!).
The disruption allows you to assemble one of many Rube Goldberg machines.
This isn't a broken pile. Its my swiss army knife, playing well with some of the more cutthroat players and the strictly casual.
My Trades
With the clone changes, and my restrictions on slowing the game down, i'll want to invest in some real mass removal.
In: Mass Eviction, Supreme Verdict, Deep Reconnaissance, Momentary Blink
Out: Somberwald Sage, Hermit Druid, Phyrexian Revoker, Gaddock Teeg
Hermit Druid no longer serves much of a purpose, other than giving Threshold on demand. Teeg hurts me more now that I have real removal spells. Somberwald is terrible late game; the early game for this pile is nothing special. Revoker is just the weakest card left.
My Trades
I've tried to keep Artifacts to a minimum in here...(mostly so I can search up Stony Silence). Null Rod might be an idea. Recross The Paths is another Ramp Option.
I'll take note of Rubblehulk tonight, and see what the possibilities are if he was a Ramp Spell.
Thanks!
My Trades
1) The deck is slow. ETBT lands, low amounts of mana accel... Horde is like a locomotive; it takes time to get up to speed.
2) Foils: I currently have 4 cards unfoiled (Though I hate the art on Maelstrom Wanderer): Command Tower, Life From The Loam, Izzet Boilerworks, and Karador.
It's not hard to imagine the following change then:
- Karador, Ghost Chieftain
-Volrath's Stronghold
-Indrik Stomphowler
+Alchemist's Refuge
+ Prophet of Kruphix.
+Seedborn Muse
Tempt with Discovery is also a contender, but ... so close.
Time to go make some purchases.
My Trades
Horde of Notions
Thanks for the kind words. You're analysis is pretty spot on. The deck can have very slow starts (no plays before turn 4 or 5), and Non-basic hate can be brutal.
Bloodmoon is a problem, as is Destructive Flow if it hits early enough. I have, and will again, take alot of damage from repeated Price of Progress. Overall, I'm content with the manabase. I originally built the deck with the stipulation that there be no Fetch-lands or 'Duals', and that hasn't changed in the ... 6 years I've been running this? In effect, I'm trapped by my own self imposed restrictions.
As far as early Horde of Notions: It's not really necessary. The Double Strike enablers, and Rubblehulk make me less dependent on incremental damage. Later on, anyone with 5 General has to play around Wrecking Ogre.
My Trades
Good Times were had. To Shiny Foils and Long Term Projects!
My Trades