First off, spoiler alert. This is over a general in an upcoming set. The information presented here may not be perfectly accurate and may ruin your surprise. To keep intact your New Phyrexian innocence, please refrain from reading this thread. Last chance.
...
OK. Now that's over, let us get to the Lady in question: Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. I absolutely love the artwork and flavor of the Machine Orthodox religious thing going on, and the card itself is usable, unlike some blue cousin. Not quite the awesome factor cardwise, but the art and flavor really make it up to me. As such, I was starting to assemble the skeleton of an Elesh-themed deck and was wanting some help finding the right pieces. To be honest, I'm a mono-black player at heart, so I feel out of my element when I was getting this deck together and I feel like there are just so many great things missing from this. Without further ado, here is what I have so far:
4-24-11
Nova Cleric -> Ronom Unicorn: More precise enchantment removal
Priests of Norn -> Springjack Shephard: I just didn't like the single infect card, and the tokens will work much better in the list
Ichor Wellspring -> Myr Battlesphere: Garbage out, tokens in
Diamond Kaleidoscope -> Phyrexian Rebirth: Kaleidoscope is really slow, and the phyrexian theme-wrath will give more mileage IMO
Well of Lost Dreams -> Slate of Ancestry: The lifegain wasn't really there to feul a draw engine, and I hope Slate will offer more consistent draw with the tokens
Banishment Decree -> Martial Coup: Bad removal, even with theme artwork, is still bad removal. Coup offers more synergy and tokens
5-2-11
Coming maybe
5-4-11
Ronom Unicorn -> Austere Command: Stronger Purify effect for multiplayer. Will miss this and Emeria enchant-lockdown though.
Blinding Angel -> Captain of the Watch: The effect was strong versus some decks, but locking one player just isn't enough to warrant. Tokens!
Order of Whiteclay -> Swords: Can't believe I forgot about them this long, and the order really couldn't use it's ability most of the time.
Phyrexian Processor -> Sun Titan: Different threat, and I did not like the black token generator in a white deck
Venser's Journal -> Endless Horizons: This is a random choice I am going to try out, as it can really help hit land drops while thinning the deck. Prolly getting 5-8 plains JIC someone thinks it funny to disenchant it.
Tiers for cards are thus, and explained below:
-token makers
-White staples
-Religious theme
-Cards with Elesh in the art/quotes by her
Cards on the chopping block:
>Elspeth Tirel: Cardwise, really strong. Flavorwise, she should be either helping my opponents or running away (COWARD!). If it wasn't crazy-awesome she would have been cut already, but she is still on the ropes
>Gore Vassal: Opposite of Elspeth; great flavor and luv the art, but a really weak card. He has been useful a few times, only because no one expects white to ping critters.
Now, I am running a few subpar cards here, and the only card from NPH listed is the general so far. I fully expect many of the cards that end in this list to be in the next set, so bear with my impatience please.
However, I want to go with a strong religious theme here with things like Preacher in addition to the phyrexian theme. Minor themes include tokens and cards that can kill creatures with Elesh (Graven Dominator). Unfortunately, the only other card I can even think of that does this odd effect is Humility, but it defeats the purpose by nerfing Elesh. I'm considering Crib Swap as well, since it works nicely with Elesh. Any more that do this effect without affecting Elesh would be great, even if it made creatures x/2's.
Some other cards that I have considered are Mortarpod with the token subtheme powering it, and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth with Kormus Bell (props to King Tristan for this one :D). However, it really feels like cheating since they seem like black cards or even making black tokens. I really want to avoid this, because the deck is about the theme, but offer so much for the deck that they are up for consideration.
Feedback of most kinds welcome! Please note I have a nearly nonexistent budget if I see it being cool enough for the deck!
UPDATE: A few games now, and the list has been having a really difficult time fighting back. It almost was solely reliant on casting the general ASAP, then beating for lethal general damage before the opponent could recover from the -2/-2 effect (not that hard with big critters). So I am cutting some of the weaker cards in the list and trying to add some more general protection, token makers and a better draw engine.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
-C.S. Lewis
First off, loving the flavor of the religious theme. After looking it over, I realize that if you wanted, it could easily be turned head over heels into a powerful 'cleric tribal' deck, with some of the flavor additions added in for additional fun.
TY Seth, but I don't really want to commit to a tribal theme with the praetor. I think I am going to lean more towards the token route to emphasize Elesh more. Thanks for the feedback, and I will keep this in mind!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
-C.S. Lewis
Sorry I haven't updated this post for a bit, just started a new job and had a lot to learn As for the comments/suggestions:
Quote from Burntgerbil »
What are your thoughts on Kormus Bell / Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth combo in the deck ?
From original quote:
Quote from kuvien »
Some other cards that I have considered are Mortarpod with the token subtheme powering it, and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth with Kormus Bell (props to King Tristan for this one ). However, it really feels like cheating since they seem like black cards or even making black tokens. I really want to avoid this, because the deck is about the theme, but offer so much for the deck that they are up for consideration.
Quote from Macius »
ok, imma whoop your arse.
Jin will send an auger to your core.
nice deck.
ORLY? I'd luv to see him where the pimp'd out hat my general does! He'd stoop over so far his head would LITERALLY be up his end.
Quote from brodiemaxa »
To go along with the religious theme: Jihad! Surely not very stong of a card, but it is super on-theme. What do you think?
Neat, just not sure I want to include with the strict 'white only' creatures. Maybe I'm being too picky here, but if I get a chance to get one I'll definitely try it out. Appreciate it!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
-C.S. Lewis
Seems like
-Kjeldoran Outpost, +Sacred Mesa
is a pretty easy switch, as Sacred Mesa's effect is almost strictly better and Kjeldoran Outpost doesn't actually function as a land because of the sacrifice effect.
...
OK. Now that's over, let us get to the Lady in question: Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. I absolutely love the artwork and flavor of the Machine Orthodox religious thing going on, and the card itself is usable, unlike some blue cousin. Not quite the awesome factor cardwise, but the art and flavor really make it up to me. As such, I was starting to assemble the skeleton of an Elesh-themed deck and was wanting some help finding the right pieces. To be honest, I'm a mono-black player at heart, so I feel out of my element when I was getting this deck together and I feel like there are just so many great things missing from this. Without further ado, here is what I have so far:
1 Mother of Runes
1 Martyr of Sands
1 Serra Ascendant
1 Ronom Unicorn
1 Stonecloaker
1 Kor Sanctifiers
1 Gore Vassal
1 Preacher
1 Order of Whiteclay
1 Sandsower
1 Springjack Shepherd
1 Magus of the Disk
1 Emeria Angel
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Conclave Phalanx
1 Reveillark
1 Blinding Angel
1 Cloudgoat Ranger
1 Archon of Justice
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Graven Dominator
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Luminous Angel
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Blazing Archon
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Skullclamp
1 Expedition Map
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Journeyer's Kite
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Armillary Sphere
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Wing Shards
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Coalition Relic
1 Crystal Ball
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Congregate
1 Return to Dust
1 Wrath of God
1 Marshal's Anthem
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Slate of Ancestry
1 Elspeth Tirel
1 Conqueror's Pledge
1 Memory Jar
1 Venser's Journal
1 Phyrexian Rebirth
1 Planar Portal
1 Storm Herd
1 Martial Coup
1 Decree of Justice
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Kjeldoran Outpost
1 Strip Mine
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Temple of the False God
1 Urza's Factory
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Springjack Pasture
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
26 Plains
4-24-11
-Nova Cleric; Priests of Norn; Ichor Wellspring; Diamond Kaleidoscope; Well of Lost Dreams; Banishment Decree
+Ronom Unicorn; Springjack Shephard; Myr Battlesphere; Slate of Ancestry
5-2-11
-Mystifying Maze; Gargoyle Castle; Choking Fumes; Deathless Angel; Weathered Wayfarer; Valor; Auriok Salvagers; Ranger of Eos
+Kjeldoran Outpost; Emeria, the Sky Ruin; Decree of Justice; Phyrexian Rebirth; Martial Coup; Luminous Angel; Elspeth Tirel; Phyrexian Processor
5-4-11
-Ronom Unicorn; Blinding Angel; Order of Whiteclay; Phyrexian Processor; Venser's Journal
+Captain of the Watch; Sun Titan; Swords to Plowshares; Endless Horizons; Austere Command
4-24-11
Nova Cleric -> Ronom Unicorn: More precise enchantment removal
Priests of Norn -> Springjack Shephard: I just didn't like the single infect card, and the tokens will work much better in the list
Ichor Wellspring -> Myr Battlesphere: Garbage out, tokens in
Diamond Kaleidoscope -> Phyrexian Rebirth: Kaleidoscope is really slow, and the phyrexian theme-wrath will give more mileage IMO
Well of Lost Dreams -> Slate of Ancestry: The lifegain wasn't really there to feul a draw engine, and I hope Slate will offer more consistent draw with the tokens
Banishment Decree -> Martial Coup: Bad removal, even with theme artwork, is still bad removal. Coup offers more synergy and tokens
5-2-11
Coming maybe
5-4-11
Ronom Unicorn -> Austere Command: Stronger Purify effect for multiplayer. Will miss this and Emeria enchant-lockdown though.
Blinding Angel -> Captain of the Watch: The effect was strong versus some decks, but locking one player just isn't enough to warrant. Tokens!
Order of Whiteclay -> Swords: Can't believe I forgot about them this long, and the order really couldn't use it's ability most of the time.
Phyrexian Processor -> Sun Titan: Different threat, and I did not like the black token generator in a white deck
Venser's Journal -> Endless Horizons: This is a random choice I am going to try out, as it can really help hit land drops while thinning the deck. Prolly getting 5-8 plains JIC someone thinks it funny to disenchant it.
-token makers
-White staples
-Religious theme
-Cards with Elesh in the art/quotes by her
Cards I want to include but haven't found room for:
>Maze of Ith
>Sacred Mesa
>Glory
>Idyllic Tutor (if enchantments start growing in number)
>Humble (white Terror!)
>Sensei's Divining Top
Cards on the chopping block:
>Elspeth Tirel: Cardwise, really strong. Flavorwise, she should be either helping my opponents or running away (COWARD!). If it wasn't crazy-awesome she would have been cut already, but she is still on the ropes
>Gore Vassal: Opposite of Elspeth; great flavor and luv the art, but a really weak card. He has been useful a few times, only because no one expects white to ping critters.
Now, I am running a few subpar cards here, and the only card from NPH listed is the general so far. I fully expect many of the cards that end in this list to be in the next set, so bear with my impatience please.
However, I want to go with a strong religious theme here with things like Preacher in addition to the phyrexian theme. Minor themes include tokens and cards that can kill creatures with Elesh (Graven Dominator). Unfortunately, the only other card I can even think of that does this odd effect is Humility, but it defeats the purpose by nerfing Elesh. I'm considering Crib Swap as well, since it works nicely with Elesh. Any more that do this effect without affecting Elesh would be great, even if it made creatures x/2's.
Some other cards that I have considered are Mortarpod with the token subtheme powering it, and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth with Kormus Bell (props to King Tristan for this one :D). However, it really feels like cheating since they seem like black cards or even making black tokens. I really want to avoid this, because the deck is about the theme, but offer so much for the deck that they are up for consideration.
Feedback of most kinds welcome! Please note I have a nearly nonexistent budget if I see it being cool enough for the deck!
UPDATE: A few games now, and the list has been having a really difficult time fighting back. It almost was solely reliant on casting the general ASAP, then beating for lethal general damage before the opponent could recover from the -2/-2 effect (not that hard with big critters). So I am cutting some of the weaker cards in the list and trying to add some more general protection, token makers and a better draw engine.
-C.S. Lewis
EDH
Obzedat - Still Alive
Retired - Nicol Bolas
-C.S. Lewis
EDH
Obzedat - Still Alive
Retired - Nicol Bolas
Jin will send an auger to your core.
nice deck.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyFrom original quote:
ORLY? I'd luv to see him where the pimp'd out hat my general does! He'd stoop over so far his head would LITERALLY be up his end.
Neat, just not sure I want to include with the strict 'white only' creatures. Maybe I'm being too picky here, but if I get a chance to get one I'll definitely try it out. Appreciate it!
-C.S. Lewis
EDH
Obzedat - Still Alive
Retired - Nicol Bolas
Rafiq | Jeleva | Zedruu
Brion | Vela
Talrand | Erebos
Otherworld Atlas Collection
4 Foil/ 17 Normal/ 0 Signed
My avatar is Disappointing!
-Kjeldoran Outpost, +Sacred Mesa
is a pretty easy switch, as Sacred Mesa's effect is almost strictly better and Kjeldoran Outpost doesn't actually function as a land because of the sacrifice effect.
EDH Deck Lists:
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
BBBMono Black ColossiBBB
Doran, the Siege Tower
:symb::symw::symg:Rocky Junk Tower:symg::symw::symb:
Cao Cao, Lord of Wei
:symb::symb::symb:Giant Staple Gun:symb::symb::symb:
Thraximundar
UBRSequencial SlaughterRBU