this deck can be really explosive. it has a high threat density, a high density of really good removal and decent ability to fix mana (having all three duals definitely helps).
it seems the big trend in block decks these days is to go BGW, mainly due to its large repertoire of good spells (Putrefy and Mortify are the defining removal spells of Block). my personal favorite route is the aggro version utilizing Bob's card advantage. the reason i advocate this list is that it has card advantage over the control version and card quality advantage (Dredge on the Cloak is crucial).
i haven't personally played this deck yet, but i've seen it post good results against Saprolings, Zoo and 4CC. believe me, this right now should be the deck to beat.
Edit-
Testing results soon to come, barring retardation on MWSPlay (which is rather common, so this is really a luck-based thing here). Don't kill me deck, Les!
two days, fourty-six views and not a single reply?
sounds like the list is basically optimal, if no one wants to give any advice. 0.O
possible future inclusion: Jin, Master of Disruption (Terry Soh's Invitational card), if he's printed at 1B. this man is going to be sick with Bob.
testing results so far:
really, there aren't many occasions in which i'd rather be testing, as i figured i'd get some advice first. unfortunately, no one's giving me advice, so here's my meager testing results:
WRb Searing Meditation - 3-0
i beat him 2-0 and he wanted to go again, so i obliged. i beat him again.
despite the insane amount of removal and defense in the Searing Med archetype, i punched through. Silhana Ledgewalker was a key player - she likes drawing out Culling Sun when she has a Cloak on her because nothing else can kill her. Bob is also a cunning threat, drawing out the early spot removal so that the Loxodon Hierarchs didn't have to deal with too many Faith's Fetters.
i didn't really get to use my sideboard cards because i had so many threats to land, but i almost got long enough into the game to nail Signets with Seed Sparks and provide some fodder for my Ghost Council.
Do you really like running 4 Ghost Council? I'd be tempted to drop at least one to make room for that last Shrieking Grotesque. Yeah, this will probably be what I'll be playing in block...
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Stop ignoring halcyon's excellent point.
Quote from "Huey Freeman" »
"I never prayed before. I don't even know who I am praying to. Maybe I'm too young to know what the world suppose is to be. But it's not suppose to be this. It can't be this. Please."
Do you really like running 4 Ghost Council? I'd be tempted to drop at least one to make room for that last Shrieking Grotesque. Yeah, this will probably be what I'll be playing in block...
Yes, I do really like running 4 Ghost Council. You'd be surprised at the frequency of having WWBB. The only thing I don't like is that they have no evasion, but everything else makes them so totally worth it.
i believe HalcyonDreamer was talking about Ghost council being a legendary creature, not the WWBB cost.. I would really hate to draw 2 ghost councils in my opening hand.. imo 3 would be a better number..
But i really like this deck but i think it needs something to pump the creatures, if this was T2 i would say jitte would fit like a charm but because we dont have jitte or anything close to it, i think a few aura´s will have to do..
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made by ButteBlues18
Quote from Yan »
tactical (...) is to play a 100 card deck in fear of milling...
I do have the three Moldervine Cloaks, if there's anything else you'd like to suggest, be my guest.
As for the Ghost Council, I'm aware he's legendary, but that just doesn't come into play. This format is so removal-rich that you won't have to worry about clogging your hand with them unless it's a bad draw.
I understand the list is meant to be aggro, but do you think it would be possible to squeeze in two Congregation At Dawnp into the list? It seems like it would help get around the heavy removal of the format. Playing Searing Meditation? Search up three Silhana Ledgewalker. Low on life? Grab a few Hierarchs. Need to get in that last few points of damage? Go get a couple of Blind Hunters. Just a thought. It would also allow you to run a semi-wishboard.
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Stop ignoring halcyon's excellent point.
Quote from "Huey Freeman" »
"I never prayed before. I don't even know who I am praying to. Maybe I'm too young to know what the world suppose is to be. But it's not suppose to be this. It can't be this. Please."
I understand the list is meant to be aggro, but do you think it would be possible to squeeze in two Congregation At Dawnp into the list? It seems like it would help get around the heavy removal of the format. Playing Searing Meditation? Search up three Silhana Ledgewalker. Low on life? Grab a few Hierarchs. Need to get in that last few points of damage? Go get a couple of Blind Hunters. Just a thought. It would also allow you to run a semi-wishboard.
Definitely true, but there's no real space for them. =|
If you've got an idea of what to replace, fire away. I'm pretty comfortable with the list as-is.
The only space I can think of making would be cutting a Council and a Hierarch or Sophisticate.
IMO Mourning Thrull is pretty good in this deck. i have been testing a version for some time (mine is a little more controlish) and i have found that the thrull is just as evasive as the Sophisticate and looks even better with a Cloak, plus it makes Bob's drawback go away.
maybe you could cut the Cry for another Cloak or Ledgewalker and 2 Congregation at Dawn
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"Once my friend told me that he had found Jesus. I thought to myself, 'WooHoo, we're rich!' It turns out he meant something different."
Yeah I agree with some of the things said.. I don't really see exactly what the point of cry or ledgewalker is.
Cry seems good, but you'll not always have something to haunt and even then, it's just a cheaper Mind Rot that takes time to set up
The ledgewalker is subpar as well... sure it's good if it gets a cloak but without it is just lackluster.
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Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.
I don't like the Cry as well; Shreiking Grotesque is much better there since you also get a 2/1 evader.
I would go like this:
-3 Cry
+1 Cloak
+1 Grotesque
+1 Ledgewalker
This way, you can have a higher chance of drawing a cloak as it's just sooo good in this format.
@ Raia: Even though Ledgewalker is only a 1/1, the deck runs Bob and 4 of the cloaks (if you make the changes), so getting a cloaked Ledgewalker is pretty good. This block is indeed removal heavy, with Mortify (waaay better than Putrefy), Helix, Putrefy, Last Gasp, Fetters, Culling Sun, and much, much more.
@ Raia: Even though Ledgewalker is only a 1/1, the deck runs Bob and 4 of the cloaks (if you make the changes), so getting a cloaked Ledgewalker is pretty good. This block is indeed removal heavy, with Mortify (waaay better than Putrefy), Helix, Putrefy, Last Gasp, Fetters, Culling Sun, and much, much more.
My problem isn't that a cloaked Ledgewalker isn't good.. it's that a Legdewalker without a cloak is very subpar.. and even with Bob, you're still not going to get a cloak in every game you get a Ledgewalker (at least not when it matters). While I don't advise this, I would rather have Mourning Thrull than the ledgewalker as it has a more profound impact on the game if you cloak it. Personally I feel this slot could be put to better use than either of those, I'm just not sure what as of yet. Here's hoping Dissention brings something nice
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Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.
Ledgewalker's in there because it dodges removal. Only non-targeted removal can kill it, which means they'll have to stop it in combat or be forced to use their mass-removal.
Sure, it's not exactly a powerhouse, but I think it's well worth the slots it's in.
As for Cry, I'll have to do some more testing but when I drew it it was a dead card.
Well I'm going to be playing this in block as well and this is what I've been looking at.
1) I think only 3 Ghost Councils are going to be needed.. he is strong, but legend + difficult to cast (not always but sometimes you can't) means I only want three. Plus he's high on the curve, so Bob would rather I only played 3.
2) Cry was just awful every time I played it. Even when I 2 for 1ed with it right away.. it still was just.. meh.
3) The grotesque was amazing so I definately want 4.
4) I didn't like Ledgewalker even though it dodges removal since they can just block it with opposing fliers (which I'd rather not waste my 3-mana removal on)
Options to consider:
Castigate
Pros: Better than cry, as you get to pick what get's removed but it also prevents Shenanigans like dredge.
Cons: Two mana for one card isn't the greatest, and more two colour cards are unwelcome.
Daggerclaw Imp
Pros: A 3/1 for 3 mana that has evasion to boot. Blocking will be irrelevant most of the time and 6 damage with a cloak is nice.
Cons: 1 toughness can really hurt, as can crowding your 3-mana slot.
Keening Banshee
Pros: Another 2 power flier, this time for 4-mana. Solid to enchant and doubles as removal.
Cons: Adding more 4-mana spells makes Bob cry
Plagued Rusalka
Pros: Smooth out your curve by replacing cry with something useful. 1-mana works for Bob and can help as a haunt enabler, haunt triggerer, or just excess removal.
Cons: Occasionally doesn't do much, as he's simply a 1/1.
Selesnya Guildmage
Pros: 2/2 for 2 with game winning abilities. Easy to cast thanks to guild mana and easy on the curve.
Cons: Umm.. none ?
Trophy Hunter
Pros: A 2/3 means it is an adequate beater and the ability to grow is nice. Pinging off opposing fliers is rather nice too as it means you can make cloaked beaters get through.
Cons: Costing 3 is somewhat harsh as the 3 slot is kind of crowded already. As well, has no evasion of its own.
Watchwolf
Pros: Ahead of the curve as a 3/3 for 2, nothing else for this amount of mana is as straight foward.
Cons: Costs 2 different coloured mana, and has no tricks built in. No pump, no evasion, nothing.
Last Gasp
Pros: More removal is usually a good thing and this kills almost everything in the format (even if you have to hit a Hierarch or Slum and block) plus it only costs 2 where your other removal costs 3.
Cons: Isn't utility.. can't be used on artifact/enchantment the same way your other removal can be and is useless in a large man topdecking war.
The sideboard could use some work too I think as neither Necroplasm or Pillory of the Sleepless seem like anything I'd want to board in.
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Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.
For one, this deck won't want to have more than one or two beaters out at a time. His pump ability cries when it sees Gruul Guildmage's.
Also, he's got no evasion and no way to avoid removal. To me, the Guildmage is an easy-to-cast vanilla 2/2.
Perhaps, but I'm not saying he should be added.. I'm saying he is an option. Gruul Guildmage is actually not very good as the difference between +2/+2 and +1/+1 to multiple is negligible. You're never going to use it twice and the difference between :symgw::symgw: and :symg::symg: is pretty large. Plus, saprolings are useful as well some of the time. Also I don't really consider "dies to Putrefy" as a drawback as most things do. But he's not neccessarily the best option for the deck... he is however something I will be testing.
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Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.
I'm trying to think of a type of deck that would beat this. RGW (or black?) beatdown? Creature distruction anyone? Some kind of control deck? Not as many good counters, no good wrath effect. Flat out aggro? Your creatures are bigger.
I must disagree, Grull Guildmage is absolutely dreadful in this deck.
He is largely used as a finisher in red decks that have run out of steam or just need that last hit.
Selesnya guildmage is a huge thorn in any decks side as the saproling ability is always useful and follow it up with glorious anthem pump and it bascally says "remove me or lose".
I wasn't suggesting the Gruul Guildmage for the deck! Yeesh!
If the Selesnya Guildmage's white ability was the same as the Gruul's green one, it'd be better for this type of deck. In this deck, the Saproling generation is nearly worthless because I don't really have a lot of mana. I'll let Raia's testing speak for itself, though.
Ive been testing this deck to great success, with a few modifications:
I have removed Cry. I never liked it, and it seems quite weak. I also dumped 1 Ghost Council, as I seem to draw doubles way too often, and he just doesnt die that often.
I have added 2 Skeletal Vampires as finishers. Yes, I know Bob isn't friends with big-ol-cards like this, but this creature singe-handedly ends games. Batman swoops in, with extra creatures. There is not a single card in the entire format that kills both Batman and his little friends. That, my friend, is inherit card advantage. Also to be noted is his synergy with Blind Hunter, as well as mr. council. Every time I cast him it is usually game over. I have also increased Grotesque to a 4 of, and added an additional land, as color screw sometimes happens.
@feuerdrache: why do you keep sugesting Gruul Guildmage!!1!!!!1wun! (jp)
I do agree with the non-inclusion of Selesnya Guildmage. This deck is very mana intensive, and more often than not, you cant spare 4 or 8 mana. If you could do that, its either very late game, in which case you should already be winning, or you're playing the deck incorectly. Perhaps I am wrong, but I just dont see it. It should be noted that Batman is quite different. The token he makes fly, which is a huge difference. In such a slow format, the ground gets clogged quite often. One needs to swoop in for the kill, and Batman and friends do that quite nicely, unlike mr. guildmage.
I'll be playtesting a version tomorrow and post results tomorrow night.
You didn't add any cards... I dont understand. Also, I would think Shrieking Grotesque is pretty good considering is costs 3 for a 2/1 flyer and has a built in discard effect. Putrefy and Mortify are pretty much a lock for this deck considering the only things you worry about are creatures that are bigger than yours (hence the creature distruction).
-4 Dark Confident: he just kills you....if you're looking for a creature, Congretation at Dawn is a better card, even more with that many 4 cost creatures, let's see a sample game against a Golgari Deck:
1st turn
I: Land and Elves of Deep Shadow
You: Land
2nd Turn (see that i can already putrefy your confident, but he's at my side)
I: Land and Shambling Shell (you take 1 damage of elves(19))
You: Land and Dark Confident
3rd Turn (buy Ghost Concil, Loxodon or Blind Hunter)
I: Land and Savra (you take 4 or let your confident die + 4 of confident (11))
U: Land and Putrefy something, like Savra
4rd Turn (Buy another 4 cost card)
I:Land and other creature doesn't matter here, 8 damage (3)
U: Loxodon or any 4 creature
5th Turn (any buying you're dead)
I: Putrefy your Loxodon
U: rest in piece
You see, Confident with that many 4 cost creatures is a suicide. And playing with no mana accel, even more playing with green, is something near being a fool, cause you just has nothing to do in 1st turn.
Another change is Vitu-Ghazi, i just don't see why you want a token generator.
Choosing between Mourning Thrull and Ledgewalker, i take ledgewalker. See what can stop a ledgewalker + moldervine? just a superior 4/* flier
and Thrull with Moldervine? any removal spell and a 4/* flier
Why golgari gm? it's just wonderfull for this deck, you can sac some unused 2/1 creature to take back a dead Loxodon or even increase the power of any of your creatures....awsome! There is no Selesnya>Gruul>Golgari, it all depends on deck you're running.
I raised a little your pool of mana since you'll need mana every turn to don't get in trouble.
I'll be playtesting a version tomorrow and post results tomorrow night.
You could make those changes, if you wanted to lose. Users above me have stated why, but I'm sure your testing will prove it just as much.
Mortify and Putrefy are the centerpoints of the deck's strategy, removing threats (artifact, creature or enchantment).
Dryad Sophisticate is a major house in this deck. I can't see any reason justifying its removal or the removal of Shrieking Grotesque. I don't know why your friend suggested these changes, but I definitely wouldn't listen to him.
also, Glix, I know Skeletal Vampire's good, but I don't think there's any place for him in a deck with Bob. Affinity decks running Bob open room for him by taking out Myr Enforcer and a Frogmite or two on occasion. I can't see the value of running a 6 mana card, no matter how good he is.
I'm in agreement on the removal of Cry, and I believe its slots belong to a fourth copy of Grotesque, Cloak, and Ledgewalker, though I'm not by any means stating Ledgewalker is definite in the deck. Only issue I have with not running it is there's not much better than him.
-4 Dark Confident: he just kills you....if you're looking for a creature, Congretation at Dawn is a better card, even more with that many 4 cost creatures, let's see a sample game against a Golgari Deck:
1st turn
I: Land and Elves of Deep Shadow
You: Land
2nd Turn (see that i can already putrefy your confident, but he's at my side)
I: Land and Shambling Shell (you take 1 damage of elves(19))
You: Land and Dark Confident
3rd Turn (buy Ghost Concil, Loxodon or Blind Hunter)
I: Land and Savra (you take 4 or let your confident die + 4 of confident (11))
U: Land and Putrefy something, like Savra
4rd Turn (Buy another 4 cost card)
I:Land and other creature doesn't matter here, 8 damage (3)
U: Loxodon or any 4 creature
5th Turn (any buying you're dead)
I: Putrefy your Loxodon
U: rest in piece
You see, Confident with that many 4 cost creatures is a suicide. And playing with no mana accel, even more playing with green, is something near being a fool, cause you just has nothing to do in 1st turn.
Another change is Vitu-Ghazi, i just don't see why you want a token generator.
Choosing between Mourning Thrull and Ledgewalker, i take ledgewalker. See what can stop a ledgewalker + moldervine? just a superior 4/* flier
and Thrull with Moldervine? any removal spell and a 4/* flier
Why golgari gm? it's just wonderfull for this deck, you can sac some unused 2/1 creature to take back a dead Loxodon or even increase the power of any of your creatures....awsome! There is no Selesnya>Gruul>Golgari, it all depends on deck you're running.
I raised a little your pool of mana since you'll need mana every turn to don't get in trouble.
Well, that's it
Bear Hugs to All
Firstly, this deck does not need mana accelerants as the deck tops out at 4 on the curve.
Secondly, Dark Confidant does not just kill you.. in fact he helps greatly as many times he is a MUST remove spell, which is fine. Even if you take 4 from Bob, you still net a free card, and Hierarch can balance out the loss of life.
Vitu-Ghazi is in the deck because sometimes you just need it to help win *shrugs* it's a land with a relevant ability, so no reason not to include it.
Golgari Guildmage is awful as we have discussed already, the abilities are WAY to costly and more often than not, useless. There's a reason Raise Dead costs 1.
As far as the ledgewalker/thrull issue... it's really on the fence... it really depends on what people end up playing.. if there lots of removal the ledgewalker is better, otherwise the thrull is (as the life gain can be pretty relevant)
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here's the first draft, after some careful consideration and theory discussion all over the place (SCG and whatnot).
4 Godless Shrine
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple Garden
2 Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree
3 Swamp
2 Plains
3 Forest
creatures::24
4 Dark Confidant
3 Shrieking Grotesque
4 Loxodon Hierarch
4 Ghost Council of Orzhova
4 Dryad Sophisticate
3 Blind Hunter
3 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Mortify
3 Putrefy
3 Moldervine Cloak
3 Cry of Contrition
4 Cremate
4 Necroplasm
3 Seed Spark
4 Pillory of the Sleepless
this deck can be really explosive. it has a high threat density, a high density of really good removal and decent ability to fix mana (having all three duals definitely helps).
it seems the big trend in block decks these days is to go BGW, mainly due to its large repertoire of good spells (Putrefy and Mortify are the defining removal spells of Block). my personal favorite route is the aggro version utilizing Bob's card advantage. the reason i advocate this list is that it has card advantage over the control version and card quality advantage (Dredge on the Cloak is crucial).
i haven't personally played this deck yet, but i've seen it post good results against Saprolings, Zoo and 4CC. believe me, this right now should be the deck to beat.
Edit-
Testing results soon to come, barring retardation on MWSPlay (which is rather common, so this is really a luck-based thing here). Don't kill me deck, Les!
sounds like the list is basically optimal, if no one wants to give any advice. 0.O
possible future inclusion: Jin, Master of Disruption (Terry Soh's Invitational card), if he's printed at 1B. this man is going to be sick with Bob.
testing results so far:
really, there aren't many occasions in which i'd rather be testing, as i figured i'd get some advice first. unfortunately, no one's giving me advice, so here's my meager testing results:
WRb Searing Meditation - 3-0
i beat him 2-0 and he wanted to go again, so i obliged. i beat him again.
despite the insane amount of removal and defense in the Searing Med archetype, i punched through. Silhana Ledgewalker was a key player - she likes drawing out Culling Sun when she has a Cloak on her because nothing else can kill her. Bob is also a cunning threat, drawing out the early spot removal so that the Loxodon Hierarchs didn't have to deal with too many Faith's Fetters.
i didn't really get to use my sideboard cards because i had so many threats to land, but i almost got long enough into the game to nail Signets with Seed Sparks and provide some fodder for my Ghost Council.
this deck is awesome.
Yes, I do really like running 4 Ghost Council. You'd be surprised at the frequency of having WWBB. The only thing I don't like is that they have no evasion, but everything else makes them so totally worth it.
But i really like this deck but i think it needs something to pump the creatures, if this was T2 i would say jitte would fit like a charm but because we dont have jitte or anything close to it, i think a few aura´s will have to do..
As for the Ghost Council, I'm aware he's legendary, but that just doesn't come into play. This format is so removal-rich that you won't have to worry about clogging your hand with them unless it's a bad draw.
Definitely true, but there's no real space for them. =|
If you've got an idea of what to replace, fire away. I'm pretty comfortable with the list as-is.
The only space I can think of making would be cutting a Council and a Hierarch or Sophisticate.
maybe you could cut the Cry for another Cloak or Ledgewalker and 2 Congregation at Dawn
- Jack Handey
Cry seems good, but you'll not always have something to haunt and even then, it's just a cheaper Mind Rot that takes time to set up
The ledgewalker is subpar as well... sure it's good if it gets a cloak but without it is just lackluster.
I would go like this:
-3 Cry
+1 Cloak
+1 Grotesque
+1 Ledgewalker
This way, you can have a higher chance of drawing a cloak as it's just sooo good in this format.
@ Raia: Even though Ledgewalker is only a 1/1, the deck runs Bob and 4 of the cloaks (if you make the changes), so getting a cloaked Ledgewalker is pretty good. This block is indeed removal heavy, with Mortify (waaay better than Putrefy), Helix, Putrefy, Last Gasp, Fetters, Culling Sun, and much, much more.
My problem isn't that a cloaked Ledgewalker isn't good.. it's that a Legdewalker without a cloak is very subpar.. and even with Bob, you're still not going to get a cloak in every game you get a Ledgewalker (at least not when it matters). While I don't advise this, I would rather have Mourning Thrull than the ledgewalker as it has a more profound impact on the game if you cloak it. Personally I feel this slot could be put to better use than either of those, I'm just not sure what as of yet. Here's hoping Dissention brings something nice
Sure, it's not exactly a powerhouse, but I think it's well worth the slots it's in.
As for Cry, I'll have to do some more testing but when I drew it it was a dead card.
1) I think only 3 Ghost Councils are going to be needed.. he is strong, but legend + difficult to cast (not always but sometimes you can't) means I only want three. Plus he's high on the curve, so Bob would rather I only played 3.
2) Cry was just awful every time I played it. Even when I 2 for 1ed with it right away.. it still was just.. meh.
3) The grotesque was amazing so I definately want 4.
4) I didn't like Ledgewalker even though it dodges removal since they can just block it with opposing fliers (which I'd rather not waste my 3-mana removal on)
Options to consider:
Castigate
Pros: Better than cry, as you get to pick what get's removed but it also prevents Shenanigans like dredge.
Cons: Two mana for one card isn't the greatest, and more two colour cards are unwelcome.
Daggerclaw Imp
Pros: A 3/1 for 3 mana that has evasion to boot. Blocking will be irrelevant most of the time and 6 damage with a cloak is nice.
Cons: 1 toughness can really hurt, as can crowding your 3-mana slot.
Keening Banshee
Pros: Another 2 power flier, this time for 4-mana. Solid to enchant and doubles as removal.
Cons: Adding more 4-mana spells makes Bob cry
Mourning Thrull
Pros/Cons: Both I mentioned earlier
Plagued Rusalka
Pros: Smooth out your curve by replacing cry with something useful. 1-mana works for Bob and can help as a haunt enabler, haunt triggerer, or just excess removal.
Cons: Occasionally doesn't do much, as he's simply a 1/1.
Selesnya Guildmage
Pros: 2/2 for 2 with game winning abilities. Easy to cast thanks to guild mana and easy on the curve.
Cons: Umm.. none ?
Trophy Hunter
Pros: A 2/3 means it is an adequate beater and the ability to grow is nice. Pinging off opposing fliers is rather nice too as it means you can make cloaked beaters get through.
Cons: Costing 3 is somewhat harsh as the 3 slot is kind of crowded already. As well, has no evasion of its own.
Watchwolf
Pros: Ahead of the curve as a 3/3 for 2, nothing else for this amount of mana is as straight foward.
Cons: Costs 2 different coloured mana, and has no tricks built in. No pump, no evasion, nothing.
Last Gasp
Pros: More removal is usually a good thing and this kills almost everything in the format (even if you have to hit a Hierarch or Slum and block) plus it only costs 2 where your other removal costs 3.
Cons: Isn't utility.. can't be used on artifact/enchantment the same way your other removal can be and is useless in a large man topdecking war.
The sideboard could use some work too I think as neither Necroplasm or Pillory of the Sleepless seem like anything I'd want to board in.
For one, this deck won't want to have more than one or two beaters out at a time. His pump ability cries when it sees Gruul Guildmage's.
Also, he's got no evasion and no way to avoid removal. To me, the Guildmage is an easy-to-cast vanilla 2/2.
Perhaps, but I'm not saying he should be added.. I'm saying he is an option.
Gruul Guildmage is actually not very good as the difference between +2/+2 and +1/+1 to multiple is negligible. You're never going to use it twice and the difference between :symgw::symgw: and :symg::symg: is pretty large. Plus, saprolings are useful as well some of the time. Also I don't really consider "dies to Putrefy" as a drawback as most things do. But he's not neccessarily the best option for the deck... he is however something I will be testing.
As for the Gruul Guildmage, I was simply stating that his pump was better for the deck. No real strategic importance there.
I wasn't suggesting the Gruul Guildmage for the deck! Yeesh!
If the Selesnya Guildmage's white ability was the same as the Gruul's green one, it'd be better for this type of deck. In this deck, the Saproling generation is nearly worthless because I don't really have a lot of mana. I'll let Raia's testing speak for itself, though.
@DarkRitual:
I have removed Cry. I never liked it, and it seems quite weak. I also dumped 1 Ghost Council, as I seem to draw doubles way too often, and he just doesnt die that often.
I have added 2 Skeletal Vampires as finishers. Yes, I know Bob isn't friends with big-ol-cards like this, but this creature singe-handedly ends games. Batman swoops in, with extra creatures. There is not a single card in the entire format that kills both Batman and his little friends. That, my friend, is inherit card advantage. Also to be noted is his synergy with Blind Hunter, as well as mr. council. Every time I cast him it is usually game over. I have also increased Grotesque to a 4 of, and added an additional land, as color screw sometimes happens.
@feuerdrache: why do you keep sugesting Gruul Guildmage!!1!!!!1wun! (jp)
I do agree with the non-inclusion of Selesnya Guildmage. This deck is very mana intensive, and more often than not, you cant spare 4 or 8 mana. If you could do that, its either very late game, in which case you should already be winning, or you're playing the deck incorectly. Perhaps I am wrong, but I just dont see it. It should be noted that Batman is quite different. The token he makes fly, which is a huge difference. In such a slow format, the ground gets clogged quite often. One needs to swoop in for the kill, and Batman and friends do that quite nicely, unlike mr. guildmage.
However, a friend of mine offered some possible adjustments.
**Remove**
-2 Mortify
-1 Putrefy
-3 Cry of contrition
-4 Dryad sophisticate
-3 Shrieking grotesque
**Possible Cards to Add**
Nullmage sheperd
Birds of Paradise
Mourning thrull
Golgari guildmage
Watchwolf
I'll be playtesting a version tomorrow and post results tomorrow night.
You didn't add any cards... I dont understand. Also, I would think Shrieking Grotesque is pretty good considering is costs 3 for a 2/1 flyer and has a built in discard effect. Putrefy and Mortify are pretty much a lock for this deck considering the only things you worry about are creatures that are bigger than yours (hence the creature distruction).
Hi!
I'd make some changes here:
4 Godless Shrine
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple Garden
4 Swamp
4 Plains
4 Forest
CREATURES (24)
4 Elves of Deep Shadow
4 Dryad Sophisticate
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Golgari Guildmage
4 Loxodon Hierarch
4 Ghost Concil of Orzhova
4 Mortify
4 Moldervine Cloak
4 Putrefy
4 Shrieking Grotesque
4 Culling Sun
4 Mourning Thrull
3 Last Gasp
Now, explaining:
-4 Dark Confident: he just kills you....if you're looking for a creature, Congretation at Dawn is a better card, even more with that many 4 cost creatures, let's see a sample game against a Golgari Deck:
1st turn
I: Land and Elves of Deep Shadow
You: Land
2nd Turn (see that i can already putrefy your confident, but he's at my side)
I: Land and Shambling Shell (you take 1 damage of elves(19))
You: Land and Dark Confident
3rd Turn (buy Ghost Concil, Loxodon or Blind Hunter)
I: Land and Savra (you take 4 or let your confident die + 4 of confident (11))
U: Land and Putrefy something, like Savra
4rd Turn (Buy another 4 cost card)
I:Land and other creature doesn't matter here, 8 damage (3)
U: Loxodon or any 4 creature
5th Turn (any buying you're dead)
I: Putrefy your Loxodon
U: rest in piece
You see, Confident with that many 4 cost creatures is a suicide. And playing with no mana accel, even more playing with green, is something near being a fool, cause you just has nothing to do in 1st turn.
Another change is Vitu-Ghazi, i just don't see why you want a token generator.
Choosing between Mourning Thrull and Ledgewalker, i take ledgewalker. See what can stop a ledgewalker + moldervine? just a superior 4/* flier
and Thrull with Moldervine? any removal spell and a 4/* flier
Why golgari gm? it's just wonderfull for this deck, you can sac some unused 2/1 creature to take back a dead Loxodon or even increase the power of any of your creatures....awsome! There is no Selesnya>Gruul>Golgari, it all depends on deck you're running.
I raised a little your pool of mana since you'll need mana every turn to don't get in trouble.
Well, that's it
Bear Hugs to All
You could make those changes, if you wanted to lose. Users above me have stated why, but I'm sure your testing will prove it just as much.
Mortify and Putrefy are the centerpoints of the deck's strategy, removing threats (artifact, creature or enchantment).
Dryad Sophisticate is a major house in this deck. I can't see any reason justifying its removal or the removal of Shrieking Grotesque. I don't know why your friend suggested these changes, but I definitely wouldn't listen to him.
also, Glix, I know Skeletal Vampire's good, but I don't think there's any place for him in a deck with Bob. Affinity decks running Bob open room for him by taking out Myr Enforcer and a Frogmite or two on occasion. I can't see the value of running a 6 mana card, no matter how good he is.
I'm in agreement on the removal of Cry, and I believe its slots belong to a fourth copy of Grotesque, Cloak, and Ledgewalker, though I'm not by any means stating Ledgewalker is definite in the deck. Only issue I have with not running it is there's not much better than him.
Firstly, this deck does not need mana accelerants as the deck tops out at 4 on the curve.
Secondly, Dark Confidant does not just kill you.. in fact he helps greatly as many times he is a MUST remove spell, which is fine. Even if you take 4 from Bob, you still net a free card, and Hierarch can balance out the loss of life.
Vitu-Ghazi is in the deck because sometimes you just need it to help win *shrugs* it's a land with a relevant ability, so no reason not to include it.
Golgari Guildmage is awful as we have discussed already, the abilities are WAY to costly and more often than not, useless. There's a reason Raise Dead costs 1.
As far as the ledgewalker/thrull issue... it's really on the fence... it really depends on what people end up playing.. if there lots of removal the ledgewalker is better, otherwise the thrull is (as the life gain can be pretty relevant)