Edited Title on 6/23/11 because this thread has morphed from GWB Pod to talking about all kinds of Pod decks including GB and Jund.
Ever since NPH got leaked, I wanted to see if Birthing Pod could be a contender so I did a bunch of testing.
I first tried out Naya, but later I settled on GWB to have discard for UR Twin and Caw Blade. I played GWB versions of the deck for 73 matches and got a 67% win percentage.
That percentage is not bad. It's basically like winning two matches for every match you lose. So I recommend the deck but you have to practice with it since it is difficult to play well.
I like to play matches instead of just game 1s since sideboarded games are so important. You usually play more sideboarded games than non-sideboarded ones in a tournament.
I've tried a bunch of different lists to figure out which cards were better than others. Here's the current list I recommend.
There's a lot going on with this deck (look at all the one-ofs lol), so I wrote an overview about the deck on my blog. The overview includes the deck building process. I talk about starting out with Naya and scrapping it for GWB. Next, I talk about why Squadron Hawk had to go.
Then, I go over every single creature that made the cut as well as some creatures that didn't make the cut (like Baneslayer and Precursor Golem).
At the end, there's a small section on sideboarding with a few sample sideboarding plans for popular decks.
Check out the deck tech by clicking the link below:
why would you run a singleton Bala Ged over a second Skinrender that's the same CMC and strictly better. Actually there's a lot of choices that don't make sense there... but I'm too tired to go through them all... maybe tomorrow
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When would you ever want Bala Ged Scorpion over Skinrender? It seems pretty useless.
I also can't help but feel that 4 Squadron Hawks would make this deck better. You don't really have anything else that would slow down Caw-Blade, or even be able to beat it as fast as it can beat you.
this deck looks kinda interesting. i can't help but feel like its got serious issues when it doesn't draw Birthing Pod. i see that there's enough redundancy that even though its all singletons its still drawing useful creatures alot, but you've got to admit its kinda dysfunctional without a Pod.
would it be a good idea to include 1 or more Fauna Shaman? A singleton could be tutored up with a Pod, or you could play more of them to have some redundancy on creature tutoring. It could be really useful if you need to step back down the CMC chain and start from a lower point with your pod.
the other creature i think might be really good in here would be a single Bloodghast, which would allow you to restart the Pod chain just by dropping a land. This would give alot of insurance against sweepers, which might otherwise be a big problem. Day of Judgment could leave you totally dead in the water but with Bloodghast you'd be fine.
Finally, I think the deck just really wants more mana creatures. The deck is exceptionally mana hungry and has multiple ways of cashing in mana guys for value later. It should just run alot more of them. I'd much rather have better mana then stuff like Kor Hookmaster.
The Scorpion also kills Exarch and Viral Drake, which see some play in Archtitect decks. Did anyone read the article linked that was linked? This was stated in there...
Speaking of, that was good for showing a lot of your thought process and testing you had done. Have you considered Viridian Emissary instead of Ranger? It's fixing and ramp.
All in all, good work on building it, even if it doesn't re-define the meta as the best tier 1 deck. I know game 1 it seems to have a lot of rogue surprise factor but even SB games would be difficult to combat (barring someone siding in 8 pieces of artifact removal of course, lol.)
I also can't help but feel that 4 Squadron Hawks would make this deck better. You don't really have anything else that would slow down Caw-Blade, or even be able to beat it as fast as it can beat you.
I tried 4 Hawks for a while but I cut them because I wanted more room for toolbox creatures. The non-Hawk version has done better than the Hawk version. Check out my post for more info.
I mean Hawks are not bad but they do lose some value because of Sword of War and Peace and the Splinter Twin/Exarch combo. Also, I don't really want more two casting cost (2 CC) creatures because I have a bunch of early plays already and the 3 CC creatures are pretty weak on the Pod chain.
I'd rather cut Hawks and have more bullets in the other slots.
this deck looks kinda interesting. i can't help but feel like its got serious issues when it doesn't draw Birthing Pod. i see that there's enough redundancy that even though its all singletons its still drawing useful creatures alot, but you've got to admit its kinda dysfunctional without a Pod.
would it be a good idea to include 1 or more Fauna Shaman? A singleton could be tutored up with a Pod, or you could play more of them to have some redundancy on creature tutoring. It could be really useful if you need to step back down the CMC chain and start from a lower point with your pod.
the other creature i think might be really good in here would be a single Bloodghast, which would allow you to restart the Pod chain just by dropping a land. This would give alot of insurance against sweepers, which might otherwise be a big problem. Day of Judgment could leave you totally dead in the water but with Bloodghast you'd be fine.
Finally, I think the deck just really wants more mana creatures. The deck is exceptionally mana hungry and has multiple ways of cashing in mana guys for value later. It should just run alot more of them. I'd much rather have better mana then stuff like Kor Hookmaster.
Plan B is Mystic and imo it's tied for the best card in Standard so I wouldn't cut any of them. Mystic is a really good plan B too. I've probably won close to the same number of games with Mystic as with Pod.
Mystic is just awesome in this deck especially since you have discard to protect your creatures and Swords. Against Caw Blade, the discard spells help you win the Mystic/Sword war.
I haven’t tried Fauna Shaman so I don’t know how good it could be.
Bloodghast seems like a good idea. I’m not sure if it’s better than the other main deck cards. Aggro is tough game one and you take the control role in that matchup so I think Bloodghast is better in the sideboard.
My first versions of the deck had full sets of Birds of Paradise and Lotus Cobra and 25 lands. I just kept flooding a lot and losing that way. Once I cut 2 Birds, 1 Cobra, and added a land, the deck ran more smoothly and won more matches.
Speaking of, that was good for showing a lot of your thought process and testing you had done. Have you considered Viridian Emissary instead of Ranger? It's fixing and ramp.
I tested Viridian Emissary. Sylvan Ranger tested better because in many cases you need the land right away. Emissary is too situational against combo and control. A good control or combo player will just take hits from Emissary early in the game since it’s a pretty slow clock. But early in the game is when you often need the land right away and you can't count on drawing Pod every game.
Also, even when you do have Pod, I often needed the land from Ranger right away. I wouldn't have had time to wait for the land from Emissary.
If the metagame becomes heavy aggro, then Emissary could go back in.
How does this work without a pod? Seems really iffy...
The creatures are good on their own. Pod isn't ALL that good of a card. I've played with it a lot in limited and I'm gonna' learn toward Zenith just being a better over all card. If pod didn't have the sorcery-speed draw back it would be the stone cold nuts.
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Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
If you don't have Pod, just win with Mystic. Mystic is only the number one or two card in Standard
I've probably won close to the same number of games with Mystic as with Pod.
She's most likely the number one. if she gets reprinted in M12 I'm gonna' be pretty annoyed.
Vital Splicer curves up really nicely. And I love all the splicers ;D
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By: ol MISAKA lo
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Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
Really speaks to the power of Lotus Cobra, Stoneforge Mystic, and some Discard. After consistent numbers on those you can put pretty much any combination of effective cards in your deck.
As someone who has played tons of Fauna Shaman decks the biggest problem with those decks wasn't just not drawing Shaman and it dying, but how slow Toolboxing is and how the more diverse the Toolbox is the more inconsistent the deck is even if the core parts are 4 ofs, just simply off draws since you don't always get your engine off the start. Surprisingly enough if you watch the progression of those decks they always get away from Toolbox and just run a select couple tools and specially finishers but pad the rest with solid playsets or 3 ofs.
Definitely an interesting list. I'm curious though how much it wins off it being a Stoneforge deck with acceleration and tutorable artifact hate vs being able to Pod through the casting costs..My experience is getting stuck not having the right answers at the right CMC when the spread gets large and the numbers of specific cards too low with Birthing Pod. Then again just being an efficient Stoneforge deck can sort of negate these shortcomings.
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Have you ever considered going Bant instead of Doran colors. You would get access to Trinket Mage and do some really dumb things with Birthing Pod. It just seems like blue would give you a really insane toolbox.
Also I have been testing your list you placed with in the trial(I am on magic-league as well), it works really really well. It's just a hard deck to learn.
I was thinking of doing BUG or Bant for a Birthing Pod brew I am working on. Blue gives cool cards like Trinket Mage (Elixir of Immortality or Voltaic Key, anyone?) and Aether Adept. I like being able to flash in creatures like Nighthawk or Viridian Corrupter during combat.
BUG gives some sweet black creatures but Bant gives us the alternate win con of just strapping a sword on a creature and swinging. An interested blue card for these two color combinations in See Beyond to shuffle in a creature you want to Birthing Pod into.
I think fenixmatt is right about Bant though. I could see Venser, the Sojourner good in this two. He can make your creatures unblockable for an alpha strike or reset a birthing pod to use on your opponent's turn.
I want to build a Birthing Pod deck but there's so many options and it's so tough to limit the toolbox to something manageable.
I just 1st place at FNM with this deck, beating Valakut and Tezz control.
I also beat caw blade almost every time I play it. I have a friend with the deck and I win 9/10 games.
Here is my list.
I have been playing around with this deck and playtesting a whole lot, and I am loving every minute I am playing this deck. I will never change from Black/Green, except maybe to add a color, like adding white for the white exarch at two, or adding blue for the sea gate oracle at 3, along with a few other nice perks in each of those colors.
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I was thinking of doing BUG or Bant for a Birthing Pod brew I am working on. Blue gives cool cards like Trinket Mage (Elixir of Immortality or Voltaic Key, anyone?) and Aether Adept. I like being able to flash in creatures like Nighthawk or Viridian Corrupter during combat.
I'm sure I'm missing something, but how exactly are you flashing in those creatures mid-combat?
Probably like me, When I 1st started testing I didn't see the activate only when you could play a sorcery clause.
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Back at the bar, when you thought we were getting all palsy-walsy, I was actually flipping through that sorry mind you call an organizer looking for dirt! You know what we call THAT? MIND-TAKING, BABY! ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!
You can't flash in creatures. Birthing Pod can only be used as a sorcery.
I think that a lot of people are missing the point. when the put creatures like Vampire Nighthawk in. You want cheap creatures that are going to do their job when they come into play and then get sacced next turn to birthing pod.
Also as much as I would love to take out white, I think the stoneforge mystic package is too strong. It helps you win when you don't draw a birthing pod or when it get's destroyed.
That said I am seeing a lot of good ideas here. Everyone keep it up. If you can work in blue See Beyond is genius as sometimes you get pissed when you draw something that you want to Birthing Pod into play. Especially when you know they have countermagic. Still trying to figure out if blue is viable though.
So this list takes the toolbox aspect of this deck and throws it away. Something I really don't like. You have no way to kill creatures and you have a difficult time getting rid of artifacts. The whole point of a toolbox is to be able to deal with whatever comes along. You don't seem to be able to deal with almost anything. You would be better off just going aggro with this list than using Birthing Pod.
All of that said, I am currently using Sun Titan and Glissa in my list and both are pretty amazing. I was using Grave Titan, but I found it lacking. It's an amazing card, but I just used it to get to Sheoldred, the Whispering One.
I just 1st place at FNM with this deck, beating Valakut and Tezz control.
I also beat caw blade almost every time I play it. I have a friend with the deck and I win 9/10 games.
Here is my list.
I have been playing around with this deck and playtesting a whole lot, and I am loving every minute I am playing this deck. I will never change from Black/Green, except maybe to add a color, like adding white for the white exarch at two, or adding blue for the sea gate oracle at 3, along with a few other nice perks in each of those colors.
I gotta say i've been testing this on MTGO, it's SO much fun to play and fairly competitive. I think the blue might help, but it's so tight as it is I wouldn't know where to cut from.
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Ever since NPH got leaked, I wanted to see if Birthing Pod could be a contender so I did a bunch of testing.
I first tried out Naya, but later I settled on GWB to have discard for UR Twin and Caw Blade. I played GWB versions of the deck for 73 matches and got a 67% win percentage.
That percentage is not bad. It's basically like winning two matches for every match you lose. So I recommend the deck but you have to practice with it since it is difficult to play well.
I like to play matches instead of just game 1s since sideboarded games are so important. You usually play more sideboarded games than non-sideboarded ones in a tournament.
I've tried a bunch of different lists to figure out which cards were better than others. Here's the current list I recommend.
2 Birds of Paradise
3 Lotus Cobra
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sylvan Ranger
1 Pilgrims Eye
1 Blade Splicer
1 Kor Hookmaster
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Entomber Exarch
1 Skinrender
1 Bala Ged Scorpion
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Molten-Tail Masticore
1 Acidic Slime
1 Mitotic Slime
1 Grave Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Duress
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Birthing Pod
1 Batterskull
Lands (26)
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Stirring Wildwood
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Forest
1 Plains
5 Swamp
2 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Obstinate Baloth
3 Go for the Throat
3 Doom Blade
2 Duress
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Memoricide
There's a lot going on with this deck (look at all the one-ofs lol), so I wrote an overview about the deck on my blog. The overview includes the deck building process. I talk about starting out with Naya and scrapping it for GWB. Next, I talk about why Squadron Hawk had to go.
Then, I go over every single creature that made the cut as well as some creatures that didn't make the cut (like Baneslayer and Precursor Golem).
At the end, there's a small section on sideboarding with a few sample sideboarding plans for popular decks.
Check out the deck tech by clicking the link below:
http://magicgameplan.com/blog/gwb-birthing-pod-deck/
If you have any questions, leave them below. I'll try to answer them quickly.
Comments and feedback are welcome, of course.
Edit 5/26/11: Just got 2nd place with GWB Birthing Pod in a 55 player single elimination t2 tournament Check out the results here: http://magic-league.com/deck/70859/s...ing%20Pod35505
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
I also can't help but feel that 4 Squadron Hawks would make this deck better. You don't really have anything else that would slow down Caw-Blade, or even be able to beat it as fast as it can beat you.
The sideboard could have some good 1-of creatures, like Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Mirran Crusader, Kor Firewalker, Hex Parasite, etc.
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
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I'm quitting paper magic, look at all the cards for sale cheap Here!
would it be a good idea to include 1 or more Fauna Shaman? A singleton could be tutored up with a Pod, or you could play more of them to have some redundancy on creature tutoring. It could be really useful if you need to step back down the CMC chain and start from a lower point with your pod.
the other creature i think might be really good in here would be a single Bloodghast, which would allow you to restart the Pod chain just by dropping a land. This would give alot of insurance against sweepers, which might otherwise be a big problem. Day of Judgment could leave you totally dead in the water but with Bloodghast you'd be fine.
Finally, I think the deck just really wants more mana creatures. The deck is exceptionally mana hungry and has multiple ways of cashing in mana guys for value later. It should just run alot more of them. I'd much rather have better mana then stuff like Kor Hookmaster.
This is my take on the deck.
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Joraga Treespeaker
4 Lotus Cobra
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Bloodghast
1 Sylvan Ranger
1 Blade Splicer
1 Pilgrim's Eye
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Entomber Exarch
1 Skinrender
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Acidic Slime
1 Precursor Golem
1 Grave Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Birthing Pod
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Duress
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
Lands - 25
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Stirring Wildwood
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Forest
1 Plains
5 Swamp
1 Terramorphic Expanse
Speaking of, that was good for showing a lot of your thought process and testing you had done. Have you considered Viridian Emissary instead of Ranger? It's fixing and ramp.
All in all, good work on building it, even if it doesn't re-define the meta as the best tier 1 deck. I know game 1 it seems to have a lot of rogue surprise factor but even SB games would be difficult to combat (barring someone siding in 8 pieces of artifact removal of course, lol.)
I tried 4 Hawks for a while but I cut them because I wanted more room for toolbox creatures. The non-Hawk version has done better than the Hawk version. Check out my post for more info.
I mean Hawks are not bad but they do lose some value because of Sword of War and Peace and the Splinter Twin/Exarch combo. Also, I don't really want more two casting cost (2 CC) creatures because I have a bunch of early plays already and the 3 CC creatures are pretty weak on the Pod chain.
I'd rather cut Hawks and have more bullets in the other slots.
Plan B is Mystic and imo it's tied for the best card in Standard so I wouldn't cut any of them. Mystic is a really good plan B too. I've probably won close to the same number of games with Mystic as with Pod.
Mystic is just awesome in this deck especially since you have discard to protect your creatures and Swords. Against Caw Blade, the discard spells help you win the Mystic/Sword war.
I haven’t tried Fauna Shaman so I don’t know how good it could be.
Bloodghast seems like a good idea. I’m not sure if it’s better than the other main deck cards. Aggro is tough game one and you take the control role in that matchup so I think Bloodghast is better in the sideboard.
My first versions of the deck had full sets of Birds of Paradise and Lotus Cobra and 25 lands. I just kept flooding a lot and losing that way. Once I cut 2 Birds, 1 Cobra, and added a land, the deck ran more smoothly and won more matches.
I tested Viridian Emissary. Sylvan Ranger tested better because in many cases you need the land right away. Emissary is too situational against combo and control. A good control or combo player will just take hits from Emissary early in the game since it’s a pretty slow clock. But early in the game is when you often need the land right away and you can't count on drawing Pod every game.
Also, even when you do have Pod, I often needed the land from Ranger right away. I wouldn't have had time to wait for the land from Emissary.
If the metagame becomes heavy aggro, then Emissary could go back in.
The creatures are good on their own. Pod isn't ALL that good of a card. I've played with it a lot in limited and I'm gonna' learn toward Zenith just being a better over all card. If pod didn't have the sorcery-speed draw back it would be the stone cold nuts.
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
If you don't have Pod, just win with Mystic. Mystic is only the number one or two card in Standard
I've probably won close to the same number of games with Mystic as with Pod.
She's most likely the number one. if she gets reprinted in M12 I'm gonna' be pretty annoyed.
Vital Splicer curves up really nicely. And I love all the splicers ;D
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Check out the list here: http://magic-league.com/deck/70859/standard_t2.html#GWB%20Birthing%20Pod35505
And learn about the card choices here: http://magicgameplan.com/blog/gwb-birthing-pod-deck/
First of all, congrats!
Nice write up and I really do like your list, just two creatures I was wondering if you had considered:
Phyrexian Obliterator
Sheoldred, Whispering One
In development (Post rotation):
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As someone who has played tons of Fauna Shaman decks the biggest problem with those decks wasn't just not drawing Shaman and it dying, but how slow Toolboxing is and how the more diverse the Toolbox is the more inconsistent the deck is even if the core parts are 4 ofs, just simply off draws since you don't always get your engine off the start. Surprisingly enough if you watch the progression of those decks they always get away from Toolbox and just run a select couple tools and specially finishers but pad the rest with solid playsets or 3 ofs.
Definitely an interesting list. I'm curious though how much it wins off it being a Stoneforge deck with acceleration and tutorable artifact hate vs being able to Pod through the casting costs..My experience is getting stuck not having the right answers at the right CMC when the spread gets large and the numbers of specific cards too low with Birthing Pod. Then again just being an efficient Stoneforge deck can sort of negate these shortcomings.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
Also I have been testing your list you placed with in the trial(I am on magic-league as well), it works really really well. It's just a hard deck to learn.
BUG gives some sweet black creatures but Bant gives us the alternate win con of just strapping a sword on a creature and swinging. An interested blue card for these two color combinations in See Beyond to shuffle in a creature you want to Birthing Pod into.
I think fenixmatt is right about Bant though. I could see Venser, the Sojourner good in this two. He can make your creatures unblockable for an alpha strike or reset a birthing pod to use on your opponent's turn.
I want to build a Birthing Pod deck but there's so many options and it's so tough to limit the toolbox to something manageable.
I also beat caw blade almost every time I play it. I have a friend with the deck and I win 9/10 games.
Here is my list.
-1cc
3 Joraga Treespeaker
2 Birds of Paradise
3 Viridian Emissary
2 Myr Superion
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Glissa the Traitor
1 Phyrexian Rager
1 Cadaver Imp
1 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Viridian Corrupter
2 Skinrender
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Entomber Exarch
1 Clone Shell
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Massacre Wurm
1 Brutalizer Exarch
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
//Spells
4 Birthing Pod
3 Beast Within
2 Green Sun's Zenitth
//Land
7 Swamp
11 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Perilous Myr
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Mimic Vat
2 Obstinate Baloth
2 Massacre Wurm
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Acid Web Spider
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Brutalizer Exarch
I have been playing around with this deck and playtesting a whole lot, and I am loving every minute I am playing this deck. I will never change from Black/Green, except maybe to add a color, like adding white for the white exarch at two, or adding blue for the sea gate oracle at 3, along with a few other nice perks in each of those colors.
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Modern: Death & Taxes
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I'm sure I'm missing something, but how exactly are you flashing in those creatures mid-combat?
You can't flash in creatures. Birthing Pod can only be used as a sorcery.
I think that a lot of people are missing the point. when the put creatures like Vampire Nighthawk in. You want cheap creatures that are going to do their job when they come into play and then get sacced next turn to birthing pod.
Also as much as I would love to take out white, I think the stoneforge mystic package is too strong. It helps you win when you don't draw a birthing pod or when it get's destroyed.
That said I am seeing a lot of good ideas here. Everyone keep it up. If you can work in blue See Beyond is genius as sometimes you get pissed when you draw something that you want to Birthing Pod into play. Especially when you know they have countermagic. Still trying to figure out if blue is viable though.
4x squadron hawk
4x fauna shaman
4x stoneforge mystic
4x Vengevine
4x birthing pod
3x mirran crusader
2x acidic slime
1x kor skyfisher
1x batterskull
1x Sword of Body and Mind
1x Sword of War and Peace
1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
1x Wurmcoil engine
Other 6 drops could be Sun Titan to return destroyed swords or Grave Titan
So this list takes the toolbox aspect of this deck and throws it away. Something I really don't like. You have no way to kill creatures and you have a difficult time getting rid of artifacts. The whole point of a toolbox is to be able to deal with whatever comes along. You don't seem to be able to deal with almost anything. You would be better off just going aggro with this list than using Birthing Pod.
All of that said, I am currently using Sun Titan and Glissa in my list and both are pretty amazing. I was using Grave Titan, but I found it lacking. It's an amazing card, but I just used it to get to Sheoldred, the Whispering One.
I gotta say i've been testing this on MTGO, it's SO much fun to play and fairly competitive. I think the blue might help, but it's so tight as it is I wouldn't know where to cut from.
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