The deck has done quite well and some (a lot) of people find it irritating. If a table of Uxx players think the RW guy is a legitimate threat then you know you are doing something right... or drastically wrong.
It's a lot lighter and faster now, but if it gets disrupted early... I die fast.
I suspect Puresteel Paladin could fit well in here. If nothing else, he combos very well with your Sunforger.
Dwarven Blastminer is almost always better than the original Miner. Speaking of creatures, Orcish Settlers is a really solid card that would probably fit quite well here. Reveillark has to come into the conversation as well if we're getting all these utility guys in.
Elspeth Tirel is pure token-making goodness (plus she hangs around after your Armageddon).
Of course we have to mention Ravages of War as an additional 'Geddon effect if you want to pay the $150+ for it. On that topic, Plateau, but I doubt mana is a huge issue here.
More draw or consistant way to get creatures out. I noticed when you were playing there was no fuel.
- You reccomended Goblin Assault for me and it's been amazing for Oros, so I reccomemd the same. Other ways to generate tokens out would be Mobilization, Kjeldoran Outpost.
All good ideas and I think most of that will eventually end up in here. Why is Ajani good? I just assumed his impact on the game was too small to play him, but I can be convinced.
More draw or consistant way to get creatures out. I noticed when you were playing there was no fuel.
- You reccomended Goblin Assault for me and it's been amazing for Oros, so I reccomemd the same. Other ways to generate tokens out would be Mobilization, Kjeldoran Outpost.
I added Goblin Ass in yesterday! I also switched a number of things around as well. Sadly the Sunforger thing hasn't really ever worked for me so I was able to cut those cards. And, when I was asked, "Is poison 15 or 20?" in a game last week I figured that my answer ("10, right?") isn't an answer I want to deal with again, so I cut Exoskeleton.
Did you consider adding Stripmine/Ghost Quarters? I have some spare somewhere. Good call of what you took out, not a fan of Infect even though it's a win condition on its own.
Did you consider adding Stripmine/Ghost Quarters? I have some spare somewhere. Good call of what you took out, not a fan of Infect even though it's a win condition on its own.
Typically Jor Kadeen with Grafted Exoskeleton is a 1 shot win and that is very valuable for an aggro deck. But, as good as it was in the deck it's annoying too. So AXE!
I already have Strip Mine and with 10 LD spells and Stripmine I can't help but think that I already have enough ways to kill lands.
Typically Jor Kadeen with Grafted Exoskeleton is a 1 shot win and that is very valuable for an aggro deck. But, as good as it was in the deck it's annoying too. So AXE!
I already have Strip Mine and with 10 LD spells and Stripmine I can't help but think that I already have enough ways to kill lands.
I like killing lands too much. Bad habit of mine to advicate more LD in all decks. Steel Hellkite is amazing. Ive been using him in majority of my decks since Pre Release.
The deck has been coming along quite nicely and I think I have all the stuff I want. Focusing more on land destruction and artifact mana has been very different than any other deck I have played, but it's interesting and educational.
Are Feast and Famine & Fire and Ice the only swords good enough to make this list? I run a lot more equipment and a lot less mana dorks. So far I've been pleased with the results.
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I notice that you've taken Soltari Guerrilla's out of the deck since your first draft, I was thinking of adding them to my build so can I ask the reasoning behind your choice please?
Similarly, why did you choose to take out the Sword of Light and Shadow?
Lastly, I was wondering the benefits of running mostly creatures that make tokens, you're not running anthem effects that I can see so I don't understand the benefits for you?
EDIT please ignore this question, obviously I'm stupid
Although, personally I chose to run with utility creatures I could turn into threats later, so I guess I'm still interested in your choice
Sorry if the question seem obvious or I missed an earlier explanation somewhere, fell free to point me in the right direction if this is the case
Recommend Shrine of Loyal Legions if you haven't thought about it already. A 2 drop that can help build towards metalcraft, and as soon as you crack it open and drop the artifact tokens, I'd say nine times out of ten you're getting instant metalcraft.
Are Feast and Famine & Fire and Ice the only swords good enough to make this list? I run a lot more equipment and a lot less mana dorks. So far I've been pleased with the results.
Being good enough isn't really the issue - they are all really good. All of them are artifacts, give a +2/+2 bump, and the protection is useful. But, the ability to draw a card in RW is huge, the ability to Shock a pesky Utility Creature is big, and untapping your lands (even if it's just 2-3) when the rest of the board is trapped under a Winter Orb is one of the strongest moves you can make. I tried Light and Shadow, but the games rarely went long enough for me to get a dead guy in the yard, swing and connect, and then have mana to recast. The deck plays much more all in than that. War and Peace might speed it up even more but I already have speed on my side. Body and Mind gives me a dude, but with all the token makers I don't really need that and mill is too risky. So, that leaves Feast/Famine and Fire/Ice. Sword of Vengeance was pretty good too since Haste and Vigilance can make a huge difference, but ultimately it got axed for another land.
I notice that you've taken Soltari Guerrilla's out of the deck since your first draft, I was thinking of adding them to my build so can I ask the reasoning behind your choice please?
Similarly, why did you choose to take out the Sword of Light and Shadow?
Lastly, I was wondering the benefits of running mostly creatures that make tokens, you're not running anthem effects that I can see so I don't understand the benefits for you?
EDIT please ignore this question, obviously I'm stupid
Although, personally I chose to run with utility creatures I could turn into threats later, so I guess I'm still interested in your choice
Sorry if the question seem obvious or I missed an earlier explanation somewhere, fell free to point me in the right direction if this is the case
- I took out Guerillas because all it was was a guy. When I start killing lands early and swinging for 20+ on turn 4, there aren't a lot of guys that my attacks and land destruction let stay on the table already. Token makers were just better for speed.
- Light and Shadow would have been a lot better if I had dead guys to resurrect or the mana to replay the guys that do die. But as it is, it's way to conditional to be useful most of the time since the life gain is usually pointless and the other ability only works for longer games - and if I have a long game, I'm dead.
- Utility Creatures are something that EDH lives for, but this uses land destruction to serve a similar role. There have been times I got trapped because I couldn't take out an enchantment or a blinking fog effect, but more often than not I can just plow through things. I will never claim this deck is going to win all the time, but for an aggro deck that has to deal 120 points of damage before someone combo's off... it does quite well. The idea of a "utility creature that turns into a threat later just hasn't worked. Later is a bad place.
Recommend Shrine of Loyal Legions if you haven't thought about it already. A 2 drop that can help build towards metalcraft, and as soon as you crack it open and drop the artifact tokens, I'd say nine times out of ten you're getting instant metalcraft.
I thought about it, but I typically have Metalcraft on Turn 2 or 3 and if I don't on turn 4 then I really screwed up. As I was saying above, if I thought there would be a late game, I would consider cards like this, but if a card doesn't come down and either speed me up or slow everyone down I don't really think it works.
Have been trying to make a token themed deck for a while, and after weighing most of my options I was thinking about going towards a boros deck lead by Jor Kadeen. As I'm sure you've had plenty of experience playing this deck, hopefully you could give me some suggestions.
My group frowns upon mass land d, so if I were to make something like this it would probably be missing 12 of those 13 cards you have listed there, and that would likely mean the deck would probably not be as fast as yours. If you were to have the game go late, what changes would you make? IE more control, more creatures / token makers, better card draw, etc? I see you have only about 15 options to make creatures aside from the general, is it enough?
My honest answer? I don't know. The idea behind this deck was that you dropped just one token maker and Jor Kadeen and started swinging and blowing up lands. It's a very linear and simple game plan, but one that a lot of decks can't deal with. By taking out the land destruction, you basically need to find another way to stop combo - which Boros is not good at doing. I suppose you could add a Sunforger Equipment package, but I found that it was too expensive for the deck. BUT, if you actually have lands to tap I hear it's good. The only reason I even considered it was to tutor/play Boil.
If I may ask... why does your group hate Mass Lando? I know a lot of people that do, but they are also the same guys that build up massive indestructible boards or combo pieces that can only be answered by Krosan Grip. I firmly believe that if Aggro, in the traditional sense, wants to survive in EDH it's either Mass Lando or Infect. What else can Aggro do against a table with 120+ life to tear down before one person combos off? I've noticed that mid-range and combo are all people out here play because in a 4+ player game Control can only control so many players and Aggro can only swing so hard.
That said, I think that you could add more of the artifact token makers, more Cloudgoat Ranger type stuff, and more removal and it might help a bit. If I had to take out 13 cards from the deck I would make sure that 8 of the cards I add were instants and 3 were token dudes, and 2 were equipment.... Grafted Exoskeleton and Quietus Spike.
We're all fairly casual players and there's a lot of timmy in us. We try to stray away from just flat out mean cards (I.E. Jin-Gitaxis) unless we are playing people from outside our group. Only one or two of us have an infinite combo in our decks and we normally focus that player first if they're playing that deck. We just like to have long fun games where we can build up mana and play fun things.
"Some of the other guys dared me to go out, but I knew it weren't no ordinary giant giga-blasting blaze of unending flames that would scorch the whole world."
—Norin the Wary
Skullclamp was in the deck, but I don't want to sac my guys. As crazy as that sounds it's too slow. You drop some token, Jor Kadeen, blow up lands, and swing. I haven't really even looked at the deck in 4 months though so who knows?
Welp, I've given in. I'm going to temporarily give up my LD-less build, netdeck your build and try it at my LGS' EDH tournaments to see if I can actually win something for once.
How crucial is Mana Crypt to this deck? Can I swap in another mana artifact to save sixty dollars?
Question about how you play the deck: Say it's turn four (or earlier), you've got a few mana artifacts on the field, something like Armageddon in hand, something like Siege-Gang Commander in hand, and Jor Kadeen in the command zone. How do you play the hand? In what order do you play things, assuming you can't play everything in one turn?
Do you cast one creatures first and then cast the land destruction next turn, hoping someone doesn't hit Jor with removal? Do you cast the land destruction first and hope your artifact mana will give you enough of an advantage to still out-race your opponents? Do you cast the token producer first because it seems like less of a threat, and then LD, and then Jor? When is usually a good time to cast LD?
Made any changes to the deck in the past however, or have you ignored it for other decks recently?
Anyways, I'm excited to play this deck, and I'm sorry for necrobumping, if that's a bad thing.
Coldsteel Heart is what I run instead of Crypt, because I can't afford it either. Comes down turn two and taps for colored mana turn 3, which is pretty good.
There's nothing subtle about this deck, especially after the first time someone sees you play it. Look at his original builds and how he changed it. Started out with some interactive type stuff, and got slimmed down to artifact mana/token producers/blow stuff up. I would try for the token producer first, because a control player will probably be holding out for Jor or a land destruction spell if they know it's coming. Then it's all about the redundancy. You have multiple versions of each effect for a reason, if you can't play around their removal, bait it and then cast another armageddon.
The one thing about this version of the deck is that it's not as much fun to play over and over again (maybe it was for Galspanic, but he did take it apart). It's pretty darn linear. It'll prove that R/W aggro works in EDH, and then you'll want to do something else. As will your playgroup. My LD Jor deck ended up being similar to Sean Patchen who writes on Commandercast.com. http://www.commandercast.com/accumulated-knowledge-17-a-loaded-deck-box He has 3 LD spells and goes a double-striker/equipment route. Pretty effective if you get bored of the herp derp tokens/Jor/Armageddon routine.
One card created after Galspanic took his deck apart that I'd definitely add is Cavern of Souls if you have one.
I think I'm going to end up picking up crypt for my build sooner or later. Having an additional 2 mana on T1 is crazy good for getting an explosive start. Especially when facing against decks with better colors.
Coldsteel Heart is what I run instead of Crypt, because I can't afford it either. Comes down turn two and taps for colored mana turn 3, which is pretty good.
There's nothing subtle about this deck, especially after the first time someone sees you play it. Look at his original builds and how he changed it. Started out with some interactive type stuff, and got slimmed down to artifact mana/token producers/blow stuff up. I would try for the token producer first, because a control player will probably be holding out for Jor or a land destruction spell if they know it's coming. Then it's all about the redundancy. You have multiple versions of each effect for a reason, if you can't play around their removal, bait it and then cast another armageddon.
The one thing about this version of the deck is that it's not as much fun to play over and over again (maybe it was for Galspanic, but he did take it apart). It's pretty darn linear. It'll prove that R/W aggro works in EDH, and then you'll want to do something else. As will your playgroup. My LD Jor deck ended up being similar to Sean Patchen who writes on Commandercast.com. http://www.commandercast.com/accumulated-knowledge-17-a-loaded-deck-box He has 3 LD spells and goes a double-striker/equipment route. Pretty effective if you get bored of the herp derp tokens/Jor/Armageddon routine.
One card created after Galspanic took his deck apart that I'd definitely add is Cavern of Souls if you have one.
I want to play this version only for a weekly, LGS-hosted EDH tournament, with prizes if it wasn't already clear. It's currently dominated by a girl who runs Azami and her husband who runs Sedris, both degenerate combo decks that are hard to beat unless we team up on them in the pods, and not even that is for sure.
The deck I currently run is effective enough in casual games (I haven't felt the need to go the LD route in casual games.) but I usually get slaughtered in these EDH tournaments and I want some way to fight back without having to completely change decks. I don't care if it's fun or not to play. It couldn't be worse than losing to Azami nearly every time. I can then swap out the cards and go back to my old build once the competitive games are over.
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It's a lot lighter and faster now, but if it gets disrupted early... I die fast.
1 Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer
Beaters - 11
1 Captain of the Watch
1 Cloudgoat Ranger
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Goblin Assault
1 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Hero of Bladehold
1 Martial Coup
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Precursor Golem
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Sun Titan
Removal - 11
1 Aura of Silence
1 Austere Command
1 Condemn
1 Disenchant
1 Duplicant
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Into the Core
1 Path to Exile
1 Prison Term
1 Return to Dust
1 Wrath of God
Utility - 8
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Land Tax
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Armageddon
1 Blood Moon
1 Boom//Bust
1 Catastrophe
1 Decree of Ahhihilation
1 Hokori, Dust Drinker
1 Impending Disaster
1 Kjeldon Firebombers
1 Loxodon Gatekeepr
1 Ruination
1 Smokestack
1 Tangle Wire
1 Thoughts of Ruin
1 Winter Orb
Equipment - 5
1 Batterskull
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Artifact Mana - 18
1 Alloy Myr
1 Boros Signet
1 Coalition Relic
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Fire Diamond
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Gold Myr
1 Iron Myr
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Marble Diamond
1 Mind Stone
1 Mox Opal
1 Palladium Myr
1 Plague Myr
1 Sol Ring
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Marsh Flats
11 Mountain
11 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Strip Mine
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1 Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer
Beaters - 11
1 Captain of the Watch
1 Cloudgoat Ranger
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Goblin Assault
1 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Hero of Bladehold
1 Inferno Titan
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Precursor Golem
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Sun Titan
Removal - 10
1 Aura of Silence
1 Austere Command
1 Day of Judgment
1 Duplicant
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Into the Core
1 Martial Coup
1 Path to Exile
1 Return to Dust
1 Viashino Heretic
Utility - 9
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Land Tax
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Tithe
1 Armageddon
1 Blood Moon
1 Boom//Bust
1 Catastrophe
1 Decree of Ahhihilation
1 Hokori, Duat Drinker
1 Impending Disaster
1 Kjeldon Firebombers
1 Ruination
1 Smokestack
1 Tangle Wire
1 Wake of Destruction
1 Winter Orb
Equipment - 4
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Artifact Mana - 18
1 Alloy Myr
1 Boros Signet
1 Coalition Relic
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Fire Diamond
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Gold Myr
1 Iron Myr
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Manalith
1 Marble Diamond
1 Mind Stone
1 Palladium Myr
1 Plague Myr
1 Sol Ring
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Ancient Amphitheater
1 Ancient Den
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Marsh Flats
11 Mountain
11 Plains
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Strip Mine
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1 Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer
Beaters - 12
1 Captain of the Watch
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Goblin Assault
1 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Hateflayer
1 Hero of Bladehold
1 Inferno Titan
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Precursor Golem
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Stonehewer Giant
Removal - 11
1 Austere Command
1 Desolation Giant
1 Duplicant
1 Final Judgment
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Into the Core
1 Martial Coup
1 Path to Exile
1 Prison Term
1 Tempest of Light
1 Viashino Heretic
Utility - 11
1 Anarchist
1 Anger
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Hoarding Dragon
1 Land Tax
1 Karmic Guide
1 Mind's Eye
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Tithe
1 Wild Ricochet
1 Armageddon
1 Boom//Bust
1 Catastrophe
1 Decree of Ahhihilation
1 Impending Disaster
1 Price of Glory
1 Ruination
1 Tangle Wire
1 Wake of Destruction
1 Winter Orb
Equipment - 5
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Vengeance
Artifact Mana - 15
1 Alloy Myr
1 Boros Signet
1 Coalition Relic
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Gold Myr
1 Iron Myr
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mind Stone
1 Palladium Myr
1 Plague Myr
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Sol Ring
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Ancient Amphitheater
1 Ancient Den
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Darksteel Citadel
11 Mountain
10 Plains
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Rugged Praerie
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Spinerock Knoll
1 Strip Mine
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1 Temple of the False God
1 Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer
Beaters - 7
1 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Brion Stoutarm
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Hateflayer
1 Inferno Titan
1 Soltari Guerillas
Removal/Utility - 11
1 Austere Command
1 Devout Witness
1 Duplicant
1 Final Judgment
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Martial Coup
1 Path to Exile
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Wild Ricochet
Draw/Tutor/Recur -
1 Anarchist
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Hoarding Dragon
1 Karmic Guide
1 Land Tax
1 Mind's Eye
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Taj-Nar Swordsmith
1 Tithe
1 Trash for Treasure
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Armageddon
1 Boom//Bust
1 Catastrophe
1 Dwarven Miner
1 Impending Disaster
1 Price of Glory
1 Ruination
1 Wake of Destruction
Equipment - 10
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Grafted Exoskeleton
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Quietus Spike
1 Sunforger
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Kaldra
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Vengeance
Mana Rocks - 9
1 Blinkmoth Urn
1 Boros Signet
1 Coalition Relic
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mind Stone
1 Sol Ring
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Ancient Amphitheater
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Boros Garrison
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Mistveil Plains
13 Mountain
11 Plains
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Rugged Praerie
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Spinerock Knoll
1 Strip Mine
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1 Temple of the False God
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
I'm sure he would like more token friends in general to play with, too.
- You reccomended Goblin Assault for me and it's been amazing for Oros, so I reccomemd the same. Other ways to generate tokens out would be Mobilization, Kjeldoran Outpost.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
All good ideas and I think most of that will eventually end up in here. Why is Ajani good? I just assumed his impact on the game was too small to play him, but I can be convinced.
I added Goblin Ass in yesterday! I also switched a number of things around as well. Sadly the Sunforger thing hasn't really ever worked for me so I was able to cut those cards. And, when I was asked, "Is poison 15 or 20?" in a game last week I figured that my answer ("10, right?") isn't an answer I want to deal with again, so I cut Exoskeleton.
So, more tokens and more answers.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
Typically Jor Kadeen with Grafted Exoskeleton is a 1 shot win and that is very valuable for an aggro deck. But, as good as it was in the deck it's annoying too. So AXE!
I already have Strip Mine and with 10 LD spells and Stripmine I can't help but think that I already have enough ways to kill lands.
I want to bring Steelshaper's Gift back in because getting Sword of Feast and Famine seems like most powerful move I can make. On Godo it's unbelievably strong if you have any instant speed stuff... like 1 Steel Hellkite or Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
I like killing lands too much. Bad habit of mine to advicate more LD in all decks. Steel Hellkite is amazing. Ive been using him in majority of my decks since Pre Release.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Similarly, why did you choose to take out the Sword of Light and Shadow?
Lastly, I was wondering the benefits of running mostly creatures that make tokens, you're not running anthem effects that I can see so I don't understand the benefits for you?
EDIT please ignore this question, obviously I'm stupid
Although, personally I chose to run with utility creatures I could turn into threats later, so I guess I'm still interested in your choice
Sorry if the question seem obvious or I missed an earlier explanation somewhere, fell free to point me in the right direction if this is the case
- I took out Guerillas because all it was was a guy. When I start killing lands early and swinging for 20+ on turn 4, there aren't a lot of guys that my attacks and land destruction let stay on the table already. Token makers were just better for speed.
- Light and Shadow would have been a lot better if I had dead guys to resurrect or the mana to replay the guys that do die. But as it is, it's way to conditional to be useful most of the time since the life gain is usually pointless and the other ability only works for longer games - and if I have a long game, I'm dead.
- Utility Creatures are something that EDH lives for, but this uses land destruction to serve a similar role. There have been times I got trapped because I couldn't take out an enchantment or a blinking fog effect, but more often than not I can just plow through things. I will never claim this deck is going to win all the time, but for an aggro deck that has to deal 120 points of damage before someone combo's off... it does quite well. The idea of a "utility creature that turns into a threat later just hasn't worked. Later is a bad place.
I thought about it, but I typically have Metalcraft on Turn 2 or 3 and if I don't on turn 4 then I really screwed up. As I was saying above, if I thought there would be a late game, I would consider cards like this, but if a card doesn't come down and either speed me up or slow everyone down I don't really think it works.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
My group frowns upon mass land d, so if I were to make something like this it would probably be missing 12 of those 13 cards you have listed there, and that would likely mean the deck would probably not be as fast as yours. If you were to have the game go late, what changes would you make? IE more control, more creatures / token makers, better card draw, etc? I see you have only about 15 options to make creatures aside from the general, is it enough?
If I may ask... why does your group hate Mass Lando? I know a lot of people that do, but they are also the same guys that build up massive indestructible boards or combo pieces that can only be answered by Krosan Grip. I firmly believe that if Aggro, in the traditional sense, wants to survive in EDH it's either Mass Lando or Infect. What else can Aggro do against a table with 120+ life to tear down before one person combos off? I've noticed that mid-range and combo are all people out here play because in a 4+ player game Control can only control so many players and Aggro can only swing so hard.
That said, I think that you could add more of the artifact token makers, more Cloudgoat Ranger type stuff, and more removal and it might help a bit. If I had to take out 13 cards from the deck I would make sure that 8 of the cards I add were instants and 3 were token dudes, and 2 were equipment.... Grafted Exoskeleton and Quietus Spike.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Thanks for the advice!
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
EDIT: Also, why no Ancient Den and/or Great Furnace ?
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Alara Re-Experience
Cockatrice Username: seriph0
Skullclamp was in the deck, but I don't want to sac my guys. As crazy as that sounds it's too slow. You drop some token, Jor Kadeen, blow up lands, and swing. I haven't really even looked at the deck in 4 months though so who knows?
I think I got the land destruction covered already and at 8 mana that's really a lot for something that doesn't swing for 20 or wipe all lands.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
How crucial is Mana Crypt to this deck? Can I swap in another mana artifact to save sixty dollars?
Question about how you play the deck: Say it's turn four (or earlier), you've got a few mana artifacts on the field, something like Armageddon in hand, something like Siege-Gang Commander in hand, and Jor Kadeen in the command zone. How do you play the hand? In what order do you play things, assuming you can't play everything in one turn?
Do you cast one creatures first and then cast the land destruction next turn, hoping someone doesn't hit Jor with removal? Do you cast the land destruction first and hope your artifact mana will give you enough of an advantage to still out-race your opponents? Do you cast the token producer first because it seems like less of a threat, and then LD, and then Jor? When is usually a good time to cast LD?
Made any changes to the deck in the past however, or have you ignored it for other decks recently?
Anyways, I'm excited to play this deck, and I'm sorry for necrobumping, if that's a bad thing.
There's nothing subtle about this deck, especially after the first time someone sees you play it. Look at his original builds and how he changed it. Started out with some interactive type stuff, and got slimmed down to artifact mana/token producers/blow stuff up. I would try for the token producer first, because a control player will probably be holding out for Jor or a land destruction spell if they know it's coming. Then it's all about the redundancy. You have multiple versions of each effect for a reason, if you can't play around their removal, bait it and then cast another armageddon.
The one thing about this version of the deck is that it's not as much fun to play over and over again (maybe it was for Galspanic, but he did take it apart). It's pretty darn linear. It'll prove that R/W aggro works in EDH, and then you'll want to do something else. As will your playgroup. My LD Jor deck ended up being similar to Sean Patchen who writes on Commandercast.com. http://www.commandercast.com/accumulated-knowledge-17-a-loaded-deck-box He has 3 LD spells and goes a double-striker/equipment route. Pretty effective if you get bored of the herp derp tokens/Jor/Armageddon routine.
One card created after Galspanic took his deck apart that I'd definitely add is Cavern of Souls if you have one.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
I want to play this version only for a weekly, LGS-hosted EDH tournament, with prizes if it wasn't already clear. It's currently dominated by a girl who runs Azami and her husband who runs Sedris, both degenerate combo decks that are hard to beat unless we team up on them in the pods, and not even that is for sure.
The deck I currently run is effective enough in casual games (I haven't felt the need to go the LD route in casual games.) but I usually get slaughtered in these EDH tournaments and I want some way to fight back without having to completely change decks. I don't care if it's fun or not to play. It couldn't be worse than losing to Azami nearly every time. I can then swap out the cards and go back to my old build once the competitive games are over.