![]() |
| Home Articles Modern Masters Spoiler (72/229) Radar Forums Blogs Wiki Chat About Register Now! |
|
|||||||
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
|
#1 | |
|
Izzet Systems Engineer
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Spring Hill, KS
Posts: 4,118
![]() |
The king is dead. Long live the king. Riku of Two Reflections A Multiplayer Primer ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Bio Quote:
Let’s run though the card and establish a frame of reference for just what Riku can do for us, as well as what other Magic cards can do for Riku:
Spoiler:
Why Play Riku? ![]() Riku: when 5 copies are not enough. with no protection. He’s out there for a whole turn and typically you won’t get to copy something the turn he comes into play. Thankfully, a good Riku deck will be able to function and even thrive without him, and his colors certainly give you the opportunity to do that.Somehow, I think Riku represents the giddy risk-taker in all of us as it applies to Magic. You throw him out there, hope he sticks, and if he does you just go Godzilla on the table. In summary: This may be the commander for you if you like:
This may not be the commander for you if you don't like:
Looking in the Mirror My name is Kyle, and I like to copy things. I am a Johnny and Melvin first and a Timmy and Spike second. I have been playing magic since the Rise of Eldrazi pre-release and I have loved it ever since. I have a particular a passion for Commander, deckbuilding, and for the social interactions that come from this sweet game. My favorite ways to play Magic are Commander and Draft, but most of all it has to be fun or I don’t want anything to do with it. For this reason, I try to stay away from “un-fun” stuff like easy infinite combos, board lock/stax strategies and such. At the same time, I love the color blue and its representation in magic, so most of my decks have had access to that color. Some of my favorite decks include Nin, the Pain Artist steal-n-sac, Tibor and Lumia cantrip voltron, Darien, King of Kjeldor token army and Thromok the Insatiable one-shot express. I moved to the Kansas City area in 2011. I'm closest to Win More Games and Collector's Cache. I have a relaxed playgroup at my new home where we play once a week. If you want to play Commander, or if you think I'd be fun in your playgroup, send me a PM! Though as a new father and homeowner you can imagine my time is limited ![]() Strategy ![]() "HEY GUYS! I FOUND SOME MORE TREES!" As I said before- Riku is an investment. Riku is a lost turn, in exchange for explosive turns around the corner. If he is removed, you have lost some valuable tempo, even if it’s nice when someone burns a card on your Commander that you can just get back for another . If he sticks, however, that’s where the fun begins. Now, people love to look at this guy, make a deck with a mean CMC of 5, and just hope no one fights back. Let me give you a hint: that is as dumb as it sounds. I will attempt to explain what you should do instead. Riku is very good at two things. Firstly, and most obviously, is copying you big spells to just crush everyone. The only thing stronger than one Time Stretch is two of them. This is obvious. But in many cases, this is the very definition of “win more”. What, was one Craterhoof Behemoth not enough? There can be some nuance to this copying business, perhaps contrary to popular belief. The other thing Riku excels at is copying small spells to keep them useful all game instead of just at the beginning. One of my all time favorite plays in this deck is a turn 3 or 4 Riku, followed by a copied Fact or Fiction. “But that’s only a 4-mana spell”, you say. That’s exactly right. I just did FoF twice for 6 mana, and my hand and graveyard are now chock full of gas for the rest of the game. Unless I have some sort of Identity Crisis, I'll be in this dominant position for a while. And I haven’t yet cast a spell over 5 mana. If you just tapped out for Riku, then next turn you may probably have that much mana plus one. You COULD play a 6-mana bomb like a titan. Which is good on its own. In which case, why did you play Riku last turn, unless you were just using your commander to bait removal (an acceptable move in some cases, of course)? Or, you can copy a 4-mana spell for ridiculous value. Do you know how aggravating it is to face two copies of Sower of Temptation, stealing your board right out from under you? Or how awesome it is to hit two Skyshroud Claims, putting 4 untapped forests into play that early in the game? Or in a token deck, where just 4 1/1 tokens can attack for 36 with a copied Tears of Rage, and any more is surely a blowout? The Fact or Fiction example is my favorite, but it’s definitely not the only one. All those 2, 3, and 4-mana spells that are normally very helpful early game and somewhat marginal lategame are now amplified greatly by your commander. You can play a normal mana curve and have an explosive endgame with most of your deck, rather than having just a few haymakers sitting at the top of your curve. Those 2, 3 and 4-drop spots are just as important as the 6 and 7-drops you are dying to get out there in pairs, perhaps even moreso. And while there will be a time for that, it is important to live long enough to get to that point, and to be well established enough to push back against table resistence once you get there. This is a luxury not every deck has, and a luxury that the most successful decks use to stay on top. You can pack your deck full of silly six-drops and above and just hope no one kicks your legs out from underneath you. It’s funny to try, but at a real table you are going to get slaughtered by aggro-control and any kind of disruption, be it hand, board, yard, or otherwise. Using Riku to amplify the potency of your less expensive spells is the best and most consistent path to victory. ![]() "Quick! Get the shaving cream!" This section may even go without saying, but I am consistently surprised at how many decks I see pop up which completely ignore card type synergy in favor of just playing big dudes and big spells. The benefits of restricting yourself to a particular card type in a practical manner are huge. Think of it as a set bonus or a buff in an MMO. Your deck can be greater than the sum of its parts if you choose to build it that way. With Riku, there are a couple of ways to do this. The most effective, in my opinion, is to stick with as many creatures as possible. This allows you to run a creature toolbox and to take advantage of all the cards that like creatures. I prefer creatures over instants and sorceries for a couple of reasons:
A Brief Ramp Discussion Ramp is good. Ramp is really really good. To be a turn or two ahead of slower decks is a phenomenal advantage that adds up over the course of the game. Ramp also tends to fix your colors, making it much more likely for you to actually play your spells. Riku tends to be very mana-hungry as a Commander, since you always want two mana more than you have so you can copy your on-curve spells. So play ramp. I like to play at least 7 to 8 pieces of ramp in my commander decks minumum and I hold Riku to the same principle. There are two kinds of ramp worth talking about here, because most rituals are awful awful card disadvantage in this format. There is artifact ramp and land ramp. Since we are in green, I pretty much don’t even want to hear about artifact ramp unless it is stupid broken ramp like Sol Ring and Mana Crypt. Land ramp is better in almost every way. It allows you to fix your colors, it can be copied with Riku, it is harder to kill, it is not swept away by artifact sweepers, and I will say it again, it can be copied with Riku. Do not play things like Darksteel Ingot or the signets over Cultivate or Farhaven Elf unless your manabase is like, all basics. You do not need them. Green ramp should give you all the fixing and ramp you should need. Skew your manabase towards green so you can likely cast your ramp, use your ramp to fix and gain tempo, and don’t look back. Leave the shiny things to non-green decks that need them. Counterspells and Riku Many players see that their commander is blue and think, “welp, better play my counter suite”. Don’t do this. Play only your most critical counters. JUST enough to make your opponents think you could tuck their commander with your open mana. I will explain why.
Archetypes As mentioned before, Riku is a particularly open-ended commander. There are several viable strategies, as well as some that are more quirky. It will be up to you to make a decision here before you start putting your list together. Like any good Commander deckbuilder, how well you stick to your strategy or theme will be vital to your success and overall enjoyment of the game. ![]() "Oh, dear! How ever will I find an answer?" This is my primary style of play. You’ll find the Primer slightly biased towards this style as I have considerable experience with it, and I know it is very good and very fun to play. The idea here is to play an efficient and varied toolbox of ETB creatures, starting with your two drops and working all the way up the curve to 5, 6 and 7 drops that you want to win you the game. Every creature does something other than just being a creature. That whole “synergy” thing I was talking about before? It’s here where you can see it in action. If you play a lot creatures, then first of all your board will never be too vulnerable. More importantly though, you can play cards that work with creatures and really maximize their effectiveness. Tutors which search for creatures are the most common application, which is where the “Creature Toolbox” really earns its name. Then you use those tutors to search up creatures, usually ones with ETB abilities, that help you adapt to a changing board state with the best solution for the problems you face. Creature tutors like Birthing Pod, Survival of the Fittest/Fauna Shaman, Fierce Empath, and Green Sun’s Zenith will be very important here in allowing you to adapt to the board state with your ETB guys. Need to kill a shrouded commander? Phyrexian Metamorph has got you covered. Need to ramp ramp ramp to catch up to the monoblack player? Oracle of Mul Daya or Boundless Realms will get you back on track. Or maybe their Coffers just has to die? Slime it. Do you have to wrath now or lose? Ixidron or Crater Hellion or Kederekt Leviathan should slow them down. Just want to win the game? Ok, fetch yourself Craterhoof Behemoth and swarm the last guy left. Want to get some recursion going with these creatures? Creeping Renaissance and Genesis have you covered. Always having an answer doesn’t mean just playing counterspells. It means having a gameplan like this, having the ability to respond in the best way possible to the unpredictable board state inherent in multiplayer magic. Bounce outlets like Crystal Shard and blink cards like Conjurer’s Closet will help to generate additional value out of your creatures, in some cases at instant speed. Riku can copy those cretaures as they re-enter the battlefield, which is just amazing. They are very good in here, but be careful not to get cute and go overboard with these. They are rarely good in multiples and increase the risk that you will have all bounce outlets and no creatures to bounce. Swords of X and Y are quite good in here to strap on to the early weenies and turn them into serious threats. Feast and Famine is a gamechanger for all the mana it provides. Fire and Ice is very respectable card advantage. Light and Shadow is a fine recursion engine with the best colors of protection for Riku. I don’t recommend the others because they don’t really fit with the deck’s gameplan. Skullclamp is another way to get great value out of your early plays for when Riku wasn’t around to copy them. Just draw a bunch of cards and keep winning. There are more cards like this and I encourage you to find them in the Card Options section as you build this deck. I like to call this “the Birthing Pod deck”, even if the goal isn’t always to tutor for Pod (though I have no shame in casting Fabricate for it). Pod is just insane. I can’t sing its praises enough. You can use it the turn you play it, with just 4 mana too, so it’s fast. It likes having good options at every part of your mana curve, which encourages good deck construction. With each activation, you are tutoring for an answer, establishing a board state further, and with Riku potentially copying every guy you put into play, it is a fantastic card advantage engine that will absolutely end games if unanswered. Everything this card does more or less exemplifies what this style of deck is trying to do. If you think this card is any good, I urge you to try it out and play this particular style of deck. It is extremely resilient and retains if not surpasses the reach of the most powerful creature decks in the format. ![]() What is a "turn", anyway? There's no need to get all derpy with creatures like most of us. You can play a control shell around Riku pretty easily and use him as a perfectly acceptable wincon. Seedborn Muse is an extremely powerful card. It allows you to play your deck full of instant speed threats on other players’ turns. It is a control player’s best friend and Timmy’s worst nightmare. Since not every card in your deck will be castable at instant speed (or will it?), some flash enablers are recommended. Vedalken Orrery and Alchemist's Refuge go a long way here, hitting other player’s threats on their end step, then untapping for some action. You can use bounce outlets like Crystal Shard to replay some cards over again every turn. Mystic Snake and Draining Whelk are near board locks, but any creature with an ETB effect is fair game here. A Capsize soft lock is another common way to keep things under control and/or just win the game. Don't forget to pack High Market and/or Homeward Path to keep other players from stealing your Seedborn Muse, a common way for you to lose a game of Magic. Otherwise, this is just a more defensive version of Riku. Play plenty of removal and counters and draw, as in your typical control suite. Stuff like Chaos Warp, Beast Within and Spell Crumple will do a lot of work for you. The legendary fog machine Spike Weaver is one of the best ways to keep other players off your back in the meantime and protects you from a token or Insurrection blowout. Some decks just cannot beat Constant Mists either. Keep Riku in your back pocket for when it’s time to go over the top. Then, when your opponents’ resources are depleted play a wincon and back it up with a counter or two. Tooth and Nail or Time Stretch, with either one copied, should very easily take over the game. Glen Elendra Archmage is the perfect protection for your wincon. Card advantage and selection will be vital here even moreso than in other decks. You’ll want to play everything from Rhystic Study all the way down to Brainstorm, which is actually very good with all the shuffle effects green brings to the table. Tutors such as Gamble and Mystical Tutor will be indispensable for responding to the changing board state. I don’t run this strategy personally, so I am always open to feedback here, as I am with every other facet of this Primer. ![]() Combos with everything, I'm pretty sure. Of all the strategies outlined, this is probably the most competitive. Use that power wisely. Combo bring a certain ruthless efficiency to the table that many players find unfun or at least unsettling. Riku has several two-card combos that include him which come very close to, if not actually, winning the game on the spot. Fast mana will be important in any combo deck, so pack your Bloom Tender and perhaps Somberwald Sage. Play plenty of other ramp to get you to the point where you can combo out. Bring a couple counterspells like Pact of Negation to protect your combo. Vexing Shusher is a great tutor target to protect yourself when you go off. And then try some of these on for size:
![]() Hope you got a wrath handy there, buddy. These are great colors for building token armies. Doubling Season and Parallel Lives ensure that the math will get difficult as you swing for eleventy-billion, and cards like Deranged Hermit and Avenger of Zendikar are the perfect guys to help you get there. Now, there is a teensy-tiny problem with relying on the doubling enchantments: they a royal pain in the butt to dig for in this deck without access to black or white tutors. That leaves you with a few viable options, some moreso than others: -->Gamble -->Intuition, searching up your target, Regrowth and Eternal Witness (or other recursion) -->Long Term Plans (thanks Weebo) -->Planar Portal Even moreso than those two enchantments, a card that will elevate the deck to much higher levels of explosiveness is Gaea’s Cradle. I should not have to explain why. This card is the best card in any token deck, period. There have been calls to ban this card for a reason. There is no argument that would convince me otherwise. I understand that Cradle is very expensive. I also understand that many players are uneasy about proxies for expensive cards they do not intend to buy. I offer the compromise I have bought into: Buy or trade yourself a gold-bordered Collector’s Edition version from the auction site or elsewhere. I paid around 10 dollars for mine, which some would consider expensive. It is the highest quality proxy you can obtain, it’s manufactured by WotC, and the sort of people who will complain about a proxy that clean are acting like tightwads who would rather argue with you than just play magic. I have never received a complaint from mine yet, and I would not want to play with someone who would. CE cards have a different card back than regular Magic cards, so be sure your deck is sleeved before you buy one. Now that we have that taken care of, you basically want to look at the first strategy I listed (the one with ETB utility guys) and replace all the midrange and high-end stuff with token generators and buffs. There are essentially two kinds of token generation: ETB, or “burst” token generation (Deranged Hermit), and tokens over time generation (Ant Queen). With Riku at the helm, I will try to explain why I believe that the burst token making is the way to go, using Deranged Hermit and Ant Queen as examples.
When building your token deck, I would encourage you to stay away from cards that generate just one token per upkeep. They are typically too slow and are outclassed by better cards. Keep in mind that some “slower” token generators like Dragon Broodmother and Dragonlair Spider do a reasonable job of imitating burst token generation because they make tokens on other players’ turns as well, leaving you with a decent output by your next upkeep to use for whatever you like. Awakening Zone also gets a pass because its tokens are Eldrazi Spawn that can be used for ramp as well. Other than just having tokens, now we need things to do with them. Haste effects like Anger and Concordant Crossroads are critical here and make finishers like Genesis Wave just insane. Birthing Pod and Survial of the Fittest are great ways to tutor for Anger and get in the graveyard quickly. Do not underrate haste. It wins games far more often than whatever other cards you were going to play instead. A Kessig Cagebreakers without haste is merely good. One with haste, mid-to-late-game, is just nuts. Other than haste, the more common way to win with tokens is to overrun with them. Tears of Rage, Overwhelming Stampede and Craterhoof Behemoth are fine ways to do this, and there are plenty more in the Card Options section. Be sure to play enough token generators that these finishers are reliable. This is the most typical path to victory with a token army. Some other generally good token synergies:
![]() "Look at you, soaring through the air like an eagle... piloting a blimp." -GLaDOS Riku may be one of the finest Warp World generals available. Building around Warp World itself is a much more solid plan and is a very viable path to victory. The strategy is bafflingly simple (as are many great plans).
Spellslinging- A Theme Deck by DramaTurtle Special Thanks to DramaTurtle, who explored and embraced instant and sorcery synergy in this thread, then went off and made his own concept. It is excellent and I encourage you to give it a read. Storm- A Theme Deck by TheEndIsNear Also, I'd like to thank TheEndisNear, who added green to the bobthefunny's fantastical Tibor and Lumia aggro/storm deck and created a somewhat casual Riku Storm list. You know something wacky is going on when you are casting Genesis Wave as a ramp spell. Great job over there and there's lots of room for creative adjustments too. Riku Voltron- Strictly Casual Oh yeah. This is actually kind of playable thanks to Wild Defiance, Beserk, Rush of Blood, Fatal Frenzy, etc. Coming soon!
__________________
Last edited by Sonik; 01-09-2013 at 11:11 AM. |
|
|
3 users say thank you: LiquidMagic, Shizazination, MidoriRyu. |
|
|
|
#2 |
|
Izzet Systems Engineer
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Spring Hill, KS
Posts: 4,118
![]() |
Card Options I'm not going to attempt to list every playable card in RUG, but I will do my best to cover the highlights. Bolded cards are what I would consider standouts in multiple archetpyes. Creatures
Spoiler:
Enchantments
Spoiler:
Instants and Sorceries
Spoiler:
Artifacts
Spoiler:
Lands
Spoiler:
Planeswalkers
Spoiler:
__________________
Last edited by Sonik; 02-18-2013 at 01:56 PM. |
|
|
|
|
|
#3 | ||||||
|
Izzet Systems Engineer
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Spring Hill, KS
Posts: 4,118
![]() |
Deck Lists These will change often and unexpectedly. Build what works for you! Creature Toolbox I started off playing a generic goodstuff Riku deck without a real plan that was a lot more top-heavy. I played a good deal of 7 and 8-drops. When disruption and otherwise sputtering out before 8 or 10 mana became a point of concern for me, I tightened things up a bit and focused some more on the lower end of the curve. I also tried to play creatures over instants or sorceries when possible, though some non-creature spells and artifacts simply cannot be replaced. I feel I have managed to find a balance which captures the best of both worlds- powerful creature synergy flanked by powerful supplemental spells. And since Riku can copy both, the dichotomy, though somewhat lopsided, isn't that much of an issue. The end result is leaner and meaner than your average Riku deck, but not without a few big-mana haymakers to get over the top.
Tokens I put this list together and I was preparing to test it when Thromok the Insatiable was spoiled from Planechase 2012. Let's just say I was sidetracked. This list is somewhat untested but I believe it is a good place to start for anyone looking to win with tokens and Riku. It is based off my own Thromok list, which is now linked in my sig. I have plenty of reason to believe that this is a winning strategy and that this deck would be more than capable in most Commander settings.
Creature Toolbox on a Budget When I met my new playgroup here in Kansas City, they were new to Commander but pretty excited to be playing. I didn't want to crush them with a finely tuned, fully powered Riku deck, but I still wanted to play him and at the same time show them what could be done on a tight budget. I built this deck a few months ago and played it with them a few times. I still won all the games but it was close on most occasions, so I have a feeling it would be competent in any casual to semi-casual Commander setting. It doesn't take a lot of money to have a lot of fun with this guy, and this list is proof of that. I will update it if necessary, and as with all my decks, I welcome your feedback. Spellslinging Instant/Sorcery Build Anyone who's played with Riku has thought of the idea of just focusing on instants and sorceries. This type of build is considered to be an unoptimal theme build which sacrifices most tradition forms of defense (by playing so few creatures) for instant and sorcery-based ramp and control. It's a lot of fun and an exciting challenge to tackle, but don't expect to take down your PTQ side events with it.
Looking Ahead
Spoiler:
Credit to ISBPathfinder and fivecolorjunk for primer layout and DramaTurtle for the Spellslinging Primer. Thanks to everyone who contributed!
__________________
Last edited by Sonik; 04-16-2013 at 10:49 AM. |
||||||
|
5 users say thank you: Brammetje, Filthyhobo, LiquidMagic, Shizazination, ExReal92vedal. |
|
|
|
#4 |
|
Archmage
![]() Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 773
![]() |
I had a similar idea of using ETB's with Riku. However, I agree with Biomechanika. I think you should switch out Manic Vandal for Vithian Renegades and find more room for finishers with ETB's. Also, Acid Web Spider might be worth sticking in the deck. As for the finishers, I would suggest any of the M11 Titans, Bogardan Hellkite, Skarrgan Skybreaker, and Thunder Dragon.
One thing that I disagree with Biomechanika is that I think Pongify should stay in the deck. RUG's color scheme doesn't provide great removal besides burn and even that cannot deal with huge monsters. At one mana it would be a great removal card to copy. The same applies to Beast Within.
__________________
![]()
|
|
|
|
|
|
#5 |
|
Archmage
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 854
|
Proteus Staff since you have so many etb activation's you can just cycle through them with this, albeit randomly, but it is better than just sitting there with a 2/2 that served its purpose.
__________________
![]() "It was probably a lousy spell in the first place." —Ertai, wizard adept Legacy: ![]() Miracle, MUC, ![]() StoneBlade, Merfolk, Burn, & ![]() ReanimatorEDH: Azami, Lady of Scrolls & ![]() ![]() Riku of Two ReflectionsCasual: ![]() Dragonstorm, ![]() Dralnu-Teachings, NinjaFae, & ![]() Izzet EDH
|
|
|
|
|
|
#6 | |||
|
Izzet Systems Engineer
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Spring Hill, KS
Posts: 4,118
![]() |
Quote:
I like the Archmage because she protects Riku AND his copy ability triggers when she Persists, so you can potentially get four uses out of her. Still, I could be convinced to play Mystic Snake or Hinder number 2 instead. You don't like FTK huh? 4 damage kills an awful lot in the format. A lot of small generals get the axe and I can copy him with Riku easily for another 2 mana. OK then, I'll upgrade him to Inferno Titan. I agree that Chaos Warp is probably better than Pongify. I should make that switch but I'm afraid of what will happen when my opponent flips over something gross and I don't like letting them draw off of it. Somehow a 3/3 is safer. Perhaps I'll play both? I'll also agree that Trygon Predator doesn't need to stay in ETB-wise. I had a vision for the deck at one point that involved more swords and delivery systems and he must have been one of them. Spell Crumple is better than Hinder. You're right. Quote:
As for your finishers, the ones you suggested (besides the titans) seem pretty underwhelming to me. I did have Inferno Titan on the list before cuts at one point. I like him better when I have Basilisk Collar along for the ride but I'll think about what else to finish with in the meantime. Thanks. Quote:
----------------------------------------- Keep 'em coming guys! I can take it. Also taking suggestions for more ETB finishers. Oh, and I ditched Treachery. That new land is the last straw for that card that didn't really fit with Riku anyway.
__________________
Last edited by Sonik; 06-09-2011 at 11:08 PM. |
|||
|
|
|
|
|
#7 | |
|
Wizard Mentor
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Washington
Posts: 621
![]() |
Not sure how good it'd be, but Rings of Brighthearth seems like it would be sooooo much fun in this deck.
__________________
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#8 | |
|
Izzet Systems Engineer
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Spring Hill, KS
Posts: 4,118
![]() |
Quote:
One way to go with this deck (and that's why I love Riku so much, you can go 10 different ways with him) is to play Doubling Season and abuse the crap out of creature tokens and Planeswalkers. Consider (and this is without Riku even involved) Sarkhan Vol coming down with a Doubling Season and a Rings of Brighthearth in play. You can ultimate immediately with 2 loyalty remaining, spend two additional mana on the rings and get TWENTY 4/4 dragons. And all those cards are good cards too that don't suck on their own.
__________________
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#9 | ||
|
Wizard Mentor
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Washington
Posts: 621
![]() |
Quote:
Cards to keep an eye on while your playing (like, whether you'd rather have something else rather than these): Crystal Shard (too cute, does nothing w/o your general), Birthing Pod (cute, but interesting. See if you actually use it or if it sits while you do other things with your mana, cause it can turn into a tutoring aether vial), Cauldron of Souls (again, a card with cute interactions that doesn't seem to do much alot of the time), Pongify (again, a card with cute interactions with your general, but kind of meh otherwise [seeing a theme here?]), Heat Shimmer (why?), Sword of Fire and Ice (Feast and Famine seems better in this deck, considering all the ways to use mana and the lack of need for carddraw) Cards to add: Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger (copy this and you basically win), Primal Command (so good, seems like you forgot about it. An autoinclude.)
__________________
Quote:
|
||
|
|
|
|
|
#10 |
|
Wizard Mentor
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 577
![]() |
Izzet Chronarch seems good in this kind of deck.
Nim Deathmantle helps you abuse your EtB triggers. Cloudstone Curio again abuse those triggers. Instead of using Pongify why not Into the Roil? EDIT: Couple more that have not been mentioned. Mnemonic Wall Anarchist
__________________
Quickly found from thestickied on the main thread for Commander. Commander (EDH) Generals: Last edited by OmniDreamer; 06-10-2011 at 12:29 AM. |
|
|
|
|
|
#11 | |
|
Squeakitty Squeak Squeakum
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 581
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#12 | |
|
Izzet Systems Engineer
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Spring Hill, KS
Posts: 4,118
![]() |
Thanks much!
Brutalizer Exarch: Sure. I didn't like him that much anyway. Primal Command it is. (The cool thing about that is now I can remove Loaming Shaman. SWEET.) Sower: I can see ditching Sower. I haven't used her that often yet and that new land is bound to piss me off down the road. Good time to include that Sylvan Library I forgot about. Mulldrifter: Doesn't Brainstorm not do so well with Riku? My problem is that I haven't used it enough in play because I always wrote it off as one of those low-power spells that isn't great for EDH even though I know it's actually better than that. Perhaps I'll use this time to try it out. Crystal Shard: I feel like you're poking a sacred cow here. That is, I probably have an irrational attachment to this card. I don't see though how it "does nothing" without Riku. It's useful early game to punish tapped out opponents and it's useful late game to both save my guys from removal and to re-use their ETB effects. Like you said, I'll have to keep an eye out for this one. Birthing Pod: This is one I intend to keep for now. Riku gets to copy the creature that comes into play off the pod, so for 3 mana and 2 life I am tutoring for something useful and potentially getting that effect twice. Besides, who doesn't want to turn Acidic Slime into double Primeval Titan for that cost? And even without Riku in play, I still like it. Cauldron of Souls: I am noticing a theme here. You're suggesting that I may be trying too hard to plan for recursion interactions which may or may not be powerful enough or reliable enough to care about. Again though, the persist thing is so gross because everything that comes back off persist can be copied with Riku, even if he's persisting with them all with proper trigger-stacking. Is this effect not good enough for a slot? I'm not sure if it is or isn't. I'm willing to try something else here. Vorinclex can't be bad, right? Pongify: I'm running this on a trial basis now. I notice a theme around the community lately with people just not playing enough spot removal and for 1 mana at instant speed the 3/3 is just not enough downside to convince me not to try it out. So like you said, I'll keep an eye on it. Heat Shimmer: I know the power level on this is a bit low but I just want to double copy Primetime so bad and swing for 8 lands and 12 damage off 5 mana. Here I go off to magical christmasland again... (Fun Fact: If this is in the yard and someone else plays Blue Chancellor copying it, they win). Ugghh... uuuhhhhhhh... SoFAF? SoFI: What can I say, I love drawing cards. If I find that two swords is too much, I'll cut it. Izzet Chronarch: Oh, he's good. I just don't know how good yet. He was on the list when I started. The "twincast" version of this deck would obviously want him and his friends more. Nim Deathmantle: I am new to green though so maybe I should consider it based on the fact that I might possibly have more mana than I know what to do with lategame. Otherwise I'm not crazy about leaving the open to use it at will. I admit this is probably better than Cauldron of Souls.Into the Roil: Bouncing a single non-land permanent for a card has been great for me in standard but I don't like it for EDH. I don't play enough counterspells to be able to deal with the threat from their hand anyway. Quote:
/headdesk Thanks guys for the suggestions. MORE SACRED COW BURGERS PLEASE! EDIT: I made some more cuts and forgot what they were
__________________
Last edited by Sonik; 06-10-2011 at 09:19 AM. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#13 |
|
Apparently very obnoxious.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,900
|
*DISCLAIMER: I don't know how to be blatantly honest without somehow sounding hostile. Deal.*
first of all, you are running seedborn muse. That was a statement not a question. You're in blue, you have counterspells, you are running seedborn muse. Cards you can cut In my very humble opinion which is totally never wrong Fauna Shaman: If you can afford duals you can afford Survival of the Fittest. It's just miles and miles ahead especially when running Genesis. Wood Elves: you have coiling oracle, plus you can just run Green Sun's Zenith and Dryad Arbor if you need the land that badly. Green sun is stupidly powerful in this deck. Solemn Simulacrum: This card does not die to skullclamp, yavimaya elder does. not bad if you copy it, but there are just better cards you can run. Spitting Image comes to mind now that I'm speaking of yavimaya elder. Vithian Renegades: Unless your meta has one or more Arcum Dagsson decks, this is a severe kind of overkill on the artifact hate. You have big ass green creatures you can copy that destroy more than just artifacts, I'd cut this for something like Time Warp or Crucible of Worlds or if you need more removal, Oblivion Stone. Or if you really like this card you can cut Hull Breach to keep it in which is also a bit on the overkill side of things. Hoarding Dragon: Not even riku can make this card better than plain old Fabricate. I'd either run that or Capsize here. Pongify: Beast Within should be more than enough with Mystical tutor in the deck, run Force of Will here or Pact of Negation Hull Breach: Like I said you could cut this for the renegades, but I'd run Leyline of Anticipation here, because flash with green cards is freaking amazing. Primal Command: Garbage. If you really want the removal you can run Brutalizer Exarch which can tutor your creatures and be copied. I'd cut this for your Seedborn Muse though. Chaos Warp: this versus Mystic Snake is really no contest. Snake is a counterspell you can bounce to your hand with Crystal Shard, or chump block with. Brainstorm: Everyone wants to run this card in EDH and I have no idea why. For the record: One shot spells with small effects are bad. Cut this for Sol Ring. Cultivate: Same thing applies here, why not run out Bloom Tender, it's so god damn good in 3 color decks, and you can COPY IT Crop Rotation: Unless you're ramping in the early game this isn't very good, and if you want something to fetch cradle Sylvan Scrying won't cost you a land. Granted the ability to put the land straight into play untapped is damn strong but it won't always be necessary. I suppose this is more of a play style choice. Other than Scrying, Coalition Relic is a solid ramp card, as is the more resilient Darksteel Ingot. Gamble: Red's only tutor, and it still sucks balls. This deck loves creatures and that makes Worldly Tutor your friend. Mimic Vat: I'll be honest, this card is absolutely terrible for any deck running green. The absolute LAST thing green wants is to exile it's creatures, that's why we have Riftsweeper. I could see this in a U/B/G deck but not in here. Cut this for Hinder or Pact of Negation or something to add more control. Proteus Staff: If you have no control over the end result, then the end result is a bad card. It doesn't matter how you use it, lack of control is almost never a good thing unless you know you will come out ahead, like those old Warp World standard decks. Cut this for Force of Will, Stifle or Trickbind. Birthing Pod: Honestly I feel like it takes too much work when you can play GSZ, Chord of Calling and Tooth and Nail. Your deck needs ramp BADLY and Gilded Lotus is your friend. Winding Canyons: without a ton of ramp you're not likely to use this very often, cut for Exploration THE SIDEBOARD: It is well worth running a 10 card sideboard in a 3 color deck, it gives you Living Wish, Burning Wish and Cunning Wish and frees up vital deck space. Cutting niche cards that you won't use every game for wishes or other things streamlines the deck and makes it more consistent, plus you essentially add 7 extra cards to the deck (not counting the wishes) and allow yourself to keep your options open. If you decide to use the side board, I would take the following cards out of the deck and add them in: Decimate, Insurrection, Body Double, Tower of the Magistrate. That gives you 3 slots for the wishes and 1 extra for some more ramp or tutor power. After that you have 6 sideboard slots you can fill with whatever dirty tricks jump into your mind
__________________
Last edited by Gath Immortal; 06-10-2011 at 10:07 AM. |
|
|
|
|
|
#14 | ||
|
Wizard Mentor
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Washington
Posts: 621
![]() |
Quote:
Oh and about brainstorm, I kind of wasn't thinking there too... *doublefacepalm* But there are plenty of card-draw spells that could go nice with Riku or just good in general. Mulldrifter is usually underwhelming for me when I play it in my other decks. Lol. The guy above me says Brutalizer Exarch is way better than Primal Command. He looks like he knows what he's doing more than I do, so I'm probably missing something.
__________________
Quote:
Last edited by pookyrocks; 06-10-2011 at 10:27 AM. |
||
|
|
|
|
|
#15 | |||||||
|
The Earth-Pig Born
|
Quote:
Quote:
More edit: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Also, saying he shouldn't run X card and run Force of Will instead when his blue card count is too low to reliably pitchcast it just doesn't seem like a great plan. Constructed decks tend to set 16 as the minimum # of blue cards for Force, and that is for 60 card decks. The number for 99 card decks is going to be significantly higher, and the list as above is barely at the minimum for a 60 card deck.
__________________
![]() Glissa, the Traitor EDH![]() ![]() Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by The Aardvark; 06-10-2011 at 10:58 AM. |
|||||||
|
|
|
![]() |
| Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests) | |
| Thread Tools | |
|
|