I don't really know which one is better- the leviathan or Ixidron. I'm thinking Unearth puts the Leviathan over the edge but he costs SO MUCH MANA... I do want some sort of wrath on a creature (gotta do better than blue chancellor for that unfortunately) to keep things under control. I'm gonna have to seriously think about this guy.
And some of my advice would be worth cash, but probably nothing here. Thanks though
If you had the Sneak Attack and Mana Crypt, what would you cut for them? I'm guessing Mana Crypt would replace a land, but would you take out for Sneak Attack?
Thanks much for the compliment! Didn't help me much against Kaalia much last night when I couldn't find a wrath but it's something I'll have to think about moving forward. As for sneak attack... hm, I guess I would cut Fierce Empath (now that I've got survival and friends). ALSO, I would definitely put Crystal Shard back in the deck because it is ever-loving INSANE with Sneak Attack and it would be enough to put it over the top for sure.
Wow that thought just made me want to go buy one...
Tezz is great for lots of decks. He isn't just a bad fabricate. He does some good work and I am a huge fan of him. Mangcho and I just don't have the number of utility artifacts I'd want to make him good in these particular decks but I wouldn't say he's a bad choice overall. Once you get into three colors or more, artifacts are less needed to plug the holes in your colors' game. And by the way, you can definitely use Riku to copy the artifact that comes into play if it's a creature- say, Spellskite or Phyrexian Metamorph.
I like Gamble. I use it early to find some ramp or a beater, something my hand needs but doesn't have. And I use it late when I'm going for the win. Don't think of it as a 20% or so chance of failure- think of it as an 80% chance that you just demonic tutor-ed outside of black for one mana and an extra card. And some of those cards love to be in the yard like Genesis and such so that's one more thing it's got going for it. I'm not ready to cut it just yet. As far as copying it goes, one is much more likely to be copying what you GET with Gamble, rather than Gamble itself... don't you think?
And Nin and Stuffy Doll are good together, but that's if Nin is the general. She was my general for the last two or three months before Riku showed up last Tuesday. I can't just throw away two spots in the deck for an insular and somewhat underwhelming combo like that, though I'll admit Nin herself is probably underrated card draw in a survival deck.
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As for the actual deck, I'm probably going to cut something for Squee for the survival fuel. And suddenly Gamble gets even better. It's funny that every deck choice I make now somehow revolves around how good the cards are with Survival. Anyway, it's a foolproof first Survival Target and a stupid good draw engine. Something I wish I had the other night in a three-player game where Kaalia beat my face in even after a turn-two Skyshroud Claim because I couldn't find a wrath or a tutor for one.
I'm thinking Unearth puts the Leviathan over the edge but he costs SO MUCH MANA...
Not if you've got either Defense of the Heart or Birthing Pod! There are a few other things that put creatures right onto the battlefield from your deck on the cheap too, like Pattern of Rebirth, but the first two are what I'm relying on. I just put Natural Order in my list, but I don't think you've got enough green in your list to support that (and it won't grab a Kederekt Leviathan, but it can get me out of other jams).
As for the actual deck, I'm probably going to cut something for Squee for the survival fuel.
You're considering Squee AND K. Leviathan? I'm converting you over to my list, muahaha! I really like the creature route, because they are so much more easily tutored/recurred than spells are. Making a creature toolbox deck makes me wonder if Momir Vig wouldn't a better general for the deck, lol. Riku certainly is a better force multiplier though (and we get Squee and Kiki-Jiki with red!).
nothing better then doing tooth and nail or defense of the heart into kederakt leviathan + terastadon! kill 3 cool things oh and bounce all those elephants afterwards!
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5th TCG Qualifier - Soul Sisters
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3rd Star City Games Super IQ - UB Control
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1st Star City Games IQ - Esper Heartless
3rd GPT Qualifier - Modern - Bant
2nd Star City Games IQ - Reanimator
2nd GPT Qualifier - Legacy - Goblins
Currently Playing: STANDARD UWBCONTROLUWB EDH UGEDRIC, SPYMASTER OF TRESTUG MODERN WBGRASSAULT LOAMWBGR
Haven't seen it mentioned, but in my deck (toned down to be casual since our combo players went home for the summer) sphinx ambassador is awesome.
Potential reusable bribery is FTW, and you can dupe what it steals.
I mean, its not an "OMG Gameender" card, but its REALLY fun to play with.
Also, I'm on the reverse side of the kederkt debate.
We're playing multiplayer, we don't exactly need too many fieldwipes, since we should have the best board position most of the time, blowing out all our tokens seems counterintuitive.
In those cases where a token deck gets out of hand, some other player should be able to tutor up a wrath to deal with them, allowing us to save our precious deckslots for more relevant cards.
Thats just my 2 cents and why I won't be running the leviathan.
Aluren is alright for Animar, but to be honest it really isnt needed. Animar reduces the costs of his creatures so 3 mana creatures become less important as they reduce in cost over time. The big impact would be the ability to play Animar at instant speed.
Even then, I prefur to run Earthcraft instead of Aluren in my Animar deck. I feel they are somewhat similar in how they play and both can allow Man-O'-War to flicker infinitely.
Personally I feel that Aluren is at its best in an Omnath, Locus of Mana deck. The fact that if he is killed, you can replay him off of Aluren and keep your mana pool makes it very powerful there. It is also extremely good in a Momir Vig, Simic Visionary deck as you can chain all of your 1-3 mana creatures through your deck using vig to draw and tutor them up.
I suppose i see the arguement for Tezzeret, however I think being able to fetch out mana crypt, sol ring, o stone etc is never a bad thing.. but ill look into it. I think additionally i need to add another 1 drop or less artifact for trinket mage copies as im finding i dont have a target for the 2nd mage if i draw a sol ring or crypt in opening hand..
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5th TCG Qualifier - Soul Sisters
2nd GPT Qualifier - Sealed
3rd Star City Games Super IQ - UB Control
4th Star City Games Super IQ - Solar Flare
1st Star City Games IQ - Esper Heartless
3rd GPT Qualifier - Modern - Bant
2nd Star City Games IQ - Reanimator
2nd GPT Qualifier - Legacy - Goblins
Currently Playing: STANDARD UWBCONTROLUWB EDH UGEDRIC, SPYMASTER OF TRESTUG MODERN WBGRASSAULT LOAMWBGR
Skullclamp is amazing for these needs. You can equip the Trinket Mages with it to potentially draw some cards. It works really well if you want to consider running Squee, Goblin Nabob, equip it to land fetching critters for free cards, avenger of z tokens for tons of draw. Bottom line is it is a great draw engine and if you are hurting for Trinket Mage targets I would strongly recommend it.
Other good targets:
Sensei's Divining Top obviously manipulating the topdeck is always solid. This card makes it into like 95% of all of my decks.
Relic of Progenitus obviously graveyard hate is always good as well. The big perc on running this one is the ability to draw a card as well so it replaces itself.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
You're considering Squee AND K. Leviathan? I'm converting you over to my list, muahaha! I really like the creature route, because they are so much more easily tutored/recurred than spells are. Making a creature toolbox deck makes me wonder if Momir Vig wouldn't a better general for the deck, lol. Riku certainly is a better force multiplier though (and we get Squee and Kiki-Jiki with red!).
Again with the Kederekt Leviathan thing I think I might just have a bad taste in my mouth from not being able to find a wrath the other night. I think it would be rash to change the deck. Squee, though, is getting in for sure. (That reminds me- need a skullclamp in there too just for him. Gargadon might be on the way out.) It was my birthday recently so I've been quite busy and I haven't had the time to screw with the deck I'd like to have- probably this evening. And yeah, if you want to run the best creature toolbox deck possible Vig blows Riku out of the water. It's not even close. But I'd like to see Vig Bribery two players at once!! Besides, he's a tutor general- sooo boring. At least with survival, we've got to work to find it and have a backup plan if we can't.
As for my wallet, I owned a lot of these cards already from my Nin and Tibor and Lumia decks- I just needed to get lots of the green stuff. I was actually able to trade for a Foil Genesis and a Survival so I didn't have to spend a ton of money- just the Intuition and the Wooded Foothills set me back a bit but it's worth having a baby you can call your own
Haven't seen it mentioned, but in my deck (toned down to be casual since our combo players went home for the summer) sphinx ambassador is awesome.
Potential reusable bribery is FTW, and you can dupe what it steals.
I mean, its not an "OMG Gameender" card, but its REALLY fun to play with.
Nice find bud :o. Sounds like a blast. I'll be sure to recommend him for players with budgets and for those of us looking to get funky with the list. I like Chancellor of the Spires better right now since he's almost always a 187 at the least and has even more upside, but yeah that Sphinx is not messing around huh?
I just started getting into Commander and I absolutely love the possibilities that Riku provides. As a long time Legacy player, I wondered about the possibilities with Aluren. Is it a good idea to built around these two cards?
Welcome to the thread!
I would say that if you're playing Aluren outside of Omnath, you are pretty much playing a combo card. You should build around it as much as possible. This is workable with any U/G general but Vig and Animar are probably the best choices. If you have a special thing for Riku though you can certainly use him for his colors and late-game reach with some bounce outlets like Man-o'-War and friends.
Again with the Kederekt Leviathan thing I think I might just have a bad taste in my mouth from not being able to find a wrath the other night. I think it would be rash to change the deck. Squee, though, is getting in for sure. (That reminds me- need a skullclamp in there too just for him. Gargadon might be on the way out.) It was my birthday recently so I've been quite busy and I haven't had the time to screw with the deck I'd like to have- probably this evening. And yeah, if you want to run the best creature toolbox deck possible Vig blows Riku out of the water. It's not even close. But I'd like to see Vig Bribery two players at once!! Besides, he's a tutor general- sooo boring. At least with survival, we've got to work to find it and have a backup plan if we can't.
As for my wallet, I owned a lot of these cards already from my Nin and Tibor and Lumia decks- I just needed to get lots of the green stuff. I was actually able to trade for a Foil Genesis and a Survival so I didn't have to spend a ton of money- just the Intuition and the Wooded Foothills set me back a bit but it's worth having a baby you can call your own
Nice find bud :o. Sounds like a blast. I'll be sure to recommend him for players with budgets and for those of us looking to get funky with the list. I like Chancellor of the Spires better right now since he's almost always a 187 at the least and has even more upside, but yeah that Sphinx is not messing around huh?
Sounds good, I think Squee will find a good home in this deck. He just works so well with so many cards that its crazy. Plus he is always a chump blocker if nothing else.
As for Sphinx Ambassador, I have to say watch out with this guy. He is slow rolling and everyone freaks out when he comes down. I used to use him in my Teferi deck which needs to be retooled and he was a blast. But I droped him in with flash and teferi covering for him. I don't know what I think about slow rolling him out for everyone to see and give them a turn to respond to him... Personally I would run him in a more permission type deck than a Riku deck.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Sounds good, I think Squee will find a good home in this deck. He just works so well with so many cards that its crazy. Plus he is always a chump blocker if nothing else.
Do you think Skullclamp is good enough to make it with Squee involved? I'm not sure about it. I could just be playing Rhystic Study (albeit without a reliable tutor for it). Almost all of my utility guys have 2+ toughness. What do you think?
Honestly I think you are overlooking some part of the Skullclamp's ability. You want to put it on those x/2+ utiliity creatures as then people dont want to kill them. A lot of your utility guys that you want to stick arround have 2+ toughness and sticking the clamp on them essentially means that people dont want to kill them as you will be rewarded for it.
Here is the breakdown of your list in my mind:
KILLS: Coiling Oracle he is there for his CIP ability and he might chump block. If you dont need the chump drawing 2 cards after getting one for him coming in seems amazingly good. Fierce Empath another creature there for their CIP triggers. If you need a chump keep him arround. Otherwise drawing fuel is always good so toss him to it. Squee, Goblin Nabob draw 2 cards every turn for 4 mana??? That sounds fantastic. Otherwise he can be used for a ton of other things as well. Eternal Witness there for her CIP ability. Sac her off for cards afterwards. Yavimaya Elder so... you can draw 1 card for 2 or you can draw 2 cards for 1... seems self explanitary.
GOOD ON: Fauna Shaman you dont want to outright kill her but putting the clamp on her will detur people from killing her in the future as they dont like giving you cards. Spellskite this thing is built to be a lightning rod. It is assumed that you will redirect a spot kill to it. So of course you would love to take a free 2 cards from this thing dying as dying is what this guy does. Trinket Mage he tutors it up then he hooks it up. What a champ of a chump blocker as he goes to get the amazing card draw engine then steps in front of that big green beater to draw you 2 cards. Whoooo. What else were you going to do with him after getting your card from his CIP? Drawing 2 and preventing damage sounds good to me. Glen Elendra Archmage this thing has persist and a built in sac option. How is this not built for clamp. MMMMM 4 cards drawn and the potential to counter 2 noncreature spells. OOOOO sign me up. Oracle of Mul Daya another creature you dont particularly want to die. Hook the clamps on and at least make it to your advantage if it happens. It can also detur them from doing it. Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker again another creature that you dont want dying. Put the clamsp on as a precaution and hope to at least be rewarded for when it happens. Avenger of Zendikar you realize that those tokens really read, pay a mana, sac and draw 2 cards right The only downside is you need to do your drawing before you drop a land. But other than that I have used the tokens to just draw tons of cards plenty of times.
It also works amazingly with sac outlets such as High Market as you can afford to slap the Skullclamp onto the larger creatures in preparation of them possibly dying.
Really any creature other than you commander is quite adventitious to hook the clamp onto. Creatures die a lot in EDH and you might as well be rewarded for it. I love kicking tokens out of a Mimic Vat that have a sac option then hook the clamp up and sac them off. MMMMMM delish. The bottom line being that I feel that a creature heavy deck that has Trinket Mage in it really should consider the card as it is totally nuts. I have drawn sooooooo many cards off of Skullclamp in the past that it is usually considered for decks right after Sol Ring and Top.
EDIT: I figured I would ask you how a few of your cards had been panning out so far while I was at it. I guess it is early enough in your deck's history that you might not have had any experience using them yet but let me know:
Venser, Shaper Savant obviously tricky to work around. Have you used him yet? Do you have to not copy him? Did you copy him? Did you have to then play arround the copy or did you find a way to sac it off???
Krosan Grip obviously a favorite of greens. My question being can you copy it with Riku though. I guess I dont fully understand when Riku makes his copy of a spell. It sounds to me like Riku makes his copy when it is on the stack already meaning you cannot use him to kick off a copy of the grip. Has this been a problem at all??? Do you think you would consider running a different effect due to this???
Decimate have you had any problems with finding enough targets to cast it??? It seems like an amazing spell if you find that you can get enough targets more often than not.
Defense of the Heart how often do you find yourself holding this in hand unable to get it to pop? I see a ton of wraths and usually shy of someone dropping an Avenger into play it wont activate. Due to this I have personally cut this card from my own lists.
Decimate is coming out in my list as I do find myself holding a dead card alot of times, or having to target my own stuff to make it happen...
Defense is the same scenario, if you play it they will never drop a 3rd creature, if you hold it, they will likely kill it once it hits play. I think Tooth n Nail is prolly just better and the only one you need.\
What is your opinion of Meekstone seems how like 80% of our creatures are less than 3 power?
4th Texas State Champs - Red Deck Loses
5th TCG Qualifier - Soul Sisters
2nd GPT Qualifier - Sealed
3rd Star City Games Super IQ - UB Control
4th Star City Games Super IQ - Solar Flare
1st Star City Games IQ - Esper Heartless
3rd GPT Qualifier - Modern - Bant
2nd Star City Games IQ - Reanimator
2nd GPT Qualifier - Legacy - Goblins
Currently Playing: STANDARD UWBCONTROLUWB EDH UGEDRIC, SPYMASTER OF TRESTUG MODERN WBGRASSAULT LOAMWBGR
So yeah I have no idea how i missed both top and clamp in my list lol.. but they have been added.
as far as the meekstone comment, I think Riku himself paints a pretty large target on herself anyways.
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5th TCG Qualifier - Soul Sisters
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3rd Star City Games Super IQ - UB Control
4th Star City Games Super IQ - Solar Flare
1st Star City Games IQ - Esper Heartless
3rd GPT Qualifier - Modern - Bant
2nd Star City Games IQ - Reanimator
2nd GPT Qualifier - Legacy - Goblins
Currently Playing: STANDARD UWBCONTROLUWB EDH UGEDRIC, SPYMASTER OF TRESTUG MODERN WBGRASSAULT LOAMWBGR
Skullclamp is awesome. It does not matter if it is on a creature with toughness 1 or on a creature with toughness 2 and greater. In the first scenario you draw two cards. With the second scenario you basically have a second Lighning Greaves without hast.
@ Pathfinder
I know you did not ask me but hell why shouldnt I answer as well ^^
I have a hard time deciding on cutting Decimate. One guy in my meta plays an Equip deck and the other Zur, so it has good use there but most of the time it is kind of useless.
I did not like Krosan Grip as I can not copy it.
Venser, Shaper Servant is awesome for me thus far. I am glad I exchanged him for Man-O-War. It is simply different to bounce a permanent instant speed instead of just a creature. Had some fun times with him.
Never played Defense of the Heart but I always play against it so I know I wont need.
You can copy Krosan Grip. Riku's copying ability is not an activated ability -- it's a triggered ability. It's just like Counterbalance. With counterbalance out on your opponent's field, Krosan Grip triggers Counterbalance and they have to reveal to see if its countered.
I think you need to go check the rules on Split Second again (I can't copy/paste right now, but the relevant one is 702.59b). Triggered abilities, like Riku's, still trigger and go on the stack. It also doesn't shut down mana abilities. You can absolutely copy Grip with Riku.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
Sonik, OMG dude - did you see the new M12 Sphinx of Uthuun? NICE. Making a slot as we speak. 7 CMC, but still... I've been lamenting the last week or so that creature-based card draw isn't all that great... and BAM. Wizards delivers. :-D
Also - I thought of Mystifying Maze this morning. Useful against opponents, but also useful to get ETB triggers again on your own dudes if you feel like using it that way. Also good for resetting Persist counters and the Unearth EOT exile effect (for K. Leviathan). :-D
edit: Mystifying Maze says "opponent controls", so that doesn't work. Drat.
What do you guys think about a douchbag combo named Spin into Myth and Tunnel Vision?
I'm trying to keep combos out of my deck, but that one is pretty funny. At least it's a combo that only works against one player, so the temptation to just instantly win the game against everyone isn't really there like it is for some of the others.
the problem is... everyone has DB plays in their decks.. anyone playing Magister Sphinx or Sorin and put peoples life totals to 10 is just as gay as people doing say tunnel vision combos.
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5th TCG Qualifier - Soul Sisters
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3rd Star City Games Super IQ - UB Control
4th Star City Games Super IQ - Solar Flare
1st Star City Games IQ - Esper Heartless
3rd GPT Qualifier - Modern - Bant
2nd Star City Games IQ - Reanimator
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Currently Playing: STANDARD UWBCONTROLUWB EDH UGEDRIC, SPYMASTER OF TRESTUG MODERN WBGRASSAULT LOAMWBGR
Wow lots of good stuff on Skullclamp! You guys will be happy to hear that I actually put it in along with Squee the other night and just didn't update the list yet. I ended up taking out Future Sight for it. I love its raw power- but it's 5 mana, doesn't affect the board, has no direct synergy with Riku AND shares the same CMC. It's just too clunky. As for clamp I guess I just didn't think about it enough as a spot removal deterrant. Now that I have goldfished a bit (no opponents to play last night but my wife), just physically seeing the card in my hand and my deck feels right. It will totally stick around.
Venser, Shaper Savant: I'm kind of on the fence about with him. I am not sure he does enough to get the spot permanently but I'm still testing him out. I have some family coming to town this weekend so any playtime I get I'm probably going to have to squeeze in on the side. I guess I'd say he's cuttable, but I don't know for what.
Krosan Grip: As you have read, K Grip is copiable. I have sometimes felt that this card isn't versatile enough and I don't play in a meta where split second is that big a deal, but I'll keep it for now because seriously, when is there not a good target for it?
Decimate: I will have yet to really know for sure how tough this is to cast. I 1v1 with my wife's Darien once in a while and there's always targets in there but other decks I'm not so sure about. Again, I think this is cuttable but not sure I've had enough experience with it yet.
Defense of the Heart: I figure what this card will do more often than not is prompt wraths from my opponents, which is actually quite good for the Riku deck. I'll keep it in for now seeing as how one activation hits AoZ and Glen Elendra Archmage and basically wins the game. Terastodon is a great enabler for it, by the way. Like your assessment of the other cards, these are ALL pretty cuttable and are on my own personal little watch list. This card is the most likely one to get cut for Time Warp or Sneak Attack, in my opinion.
Sonik, OMG dude - did you see the new M12 Sphinx of Uthuun? NICE. Making a slot as we speak. 7 CMC, but still... I've been lamenting the last week or so that creature-based card draw isn't all that great... and BAM. Wizards delivers. :-D.
Yeah what a card, huh? I think he's fantastic. He's got some rough competition over the other beaters but he's definitely a viable alternative in the event that Chancellor of the Spires or Conquering Manticore drop the slack. FoF is great in the deck and having another one is just gravy. Like it's almost worth cutting FoF for the sphinx
the problem is... everyone has DB plays in their decks.. anyone playing Magister Sphinx or Sorin and put peoples life totals to 10 is just as gay as people doing say tunnel vision combos.
I don't like the set-life-to-10 effects either but I don't think we need that argument here derailing the conversation. There is a fine line between powerful and jerk plays and that discussion really belongs in the main forum, where there are probably hundreds of threads about it.
I tweaked my list and ran a couple more games with it last night to more success than last time: I lost the first, 3-player game, but won the second, 4-player game. Here is what I am using:
This time, the amount of mana ramp was just right, although it does have problems dealing with creatures. I lost the first game to a dragon deck that pulled off Sarkhan Vol's ultimate and then dropped Karrthus. I had Tooth and Nail in hand and Riku in play, but there wasn't anything I could tutor for that would save me. I'm considering Tornado Elemental or even that new uncommon spider from M12 that destroys fliers, which have posed a problem in several games now.
In the second game, the deck worked beautifully: I was able cast Primeval Titan with Riku and Mana Reflection out, then cast and copy Walk the Aeons. I showed my opponents Genesis Wave and Fork (I had at least 30 mana available at this point), and we shuffled up for the next game. Most of the time I wouldn't approve of having the ability to take 4+ turns in a row, but Walk the Aeons (and Genesis Wave) gave me the finisher that I needed. I suppose Walk the Aeons may be a d-bag card, but I'm okay with that
The Sphinx looks great. A creature based Fact or Fiction. Going to put it in as well.
What do you guys think about a douchbag combo named Spin into Myth and Tunnel Vision?
I am thinking on sideboarding Tunnel Vision for possible 1on1 matches.
Keep in mind that if you have any eldrazi in your meta that they screw this combo up. My meta is sort of hit and miss with arround half of the decks running eldrazi so I personally do not run this as a game winning combo because I find that if I cannot pick who I want to die that it is a lot less effective.
Say that one of the players who runs one of the big eldrazi is running away with the game. You cannot use the combo to kill them off so is it really worth having??? Just keep in mind that if the combo does work then you can expect to start seeing a few of them in your meta.
Wow lots of good stuff on Skullclamp! You guys will be happy to hear that I actually put it in along with Squee the other night and just didn't update the list yet. I ended up taking out Future Sight for it. I love its raw power- but it's 5 mana, doesn't affect the board, has no direct synergy with Riku AND shares the same CMC. It's just too clunky. As for clamp I guess I just didn't think about it enough as a spot removal deterrant. Now that I have goldfished a bit (no opponents to play last night but my wife), just physically seeing the card in my hand and my deck feels right. It will totally stick around.
Venser, Shaper Savant: I'm kind of on the fence about with him. I am not sure he does enough to get the spot permanently but I'm still testing him out. I have some family coming to town this weekend so any playtime I get I'm probably going to have to squeeze in on the side. I guess I'd say he's cuttable, but I don't know for what.
Krosan Grip: As you have read, K Grip is copiable. I have sometimes felt that this card isn't versatile enough and I don't play in a meta where split second is that big a deal, but I'll keep it for now because seriously, when is there not a good target for it?
Decimate: I will have yet to really know for sure how tough this is to cast. I 1v1 with my wife's Darien once in a while and there's always targets in there but other decks I'm not so sure about. Again, I think this is cuttable but not sure I've had enough experience with it yet.
Defense of the Heart: I figure what this card will do more often than not is prompt wraths from my opponents, which is actually quite good for the Riku deck. I'll keep it in for now seeing as how one activation hits AoZ and Glen Elendra Archmage and basically wins the game. Terastodon is a great enabler for it, by the way. Like your assessment of the other cards, these are ALL pretty cuttable and are on my own personal little watch list. This card is the most likely one to get cut for Time Warp or Sneak Attack, in my opinion.
Good to hear you have reconsidered on the clamp. It is an amazing card and I find it great in any creature based deck. Just remember that it is dead on your commander unless you are willing to toss him in the bin for the cards. Other than that it is amazing.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
This time, the amount of mana ramp was just right, although it does have problems dealing with creatures. I lost the first game to a dragon deck that pulled off Sarkhan Vol's ultimate and then dropped Karrthus. I had Tooth and Nail in hand and Riku in play, but there wasn't anything I could tutor for that would save me. I'm considering Tornado Elemental or even that new uncommon spider from M12 that destroys fliers, which have posed a problem in several games now.
Your list does look a little short on sweepers. I only see O-stone and Chain Reaction. You could try Echoing Truth and Evacuation for token problems. Evacuation being an instant is great. Also, Starstorm is usually better than Chain Reaction because of the instant speed and cycling. All is Dust is another really great option that's never been cheaper to buy than it is now. Having a couple of these available to you to be tutored off Mystical Tutor should shore up your aggro matchups a bit. You could cut some narrow role-players like Sculpting Steel and Sprouting Vines.
Also, have you tried Crystal Shard with Sneak Attack? It sounds incredible...
In the second game, the deck worked beautifully: I was able cast Primeval Titan with Riku and Mana Reflection out, then cast and copy Walk the Aeons. I showed my opponents Genesis Wave and Fork (I had at least 30 mana available at this point), and we shuffled up for the next game. Most of the time I wouldn't approve of having the ability to take 4+ turns in a row, but Walk the Aeons (and Genesis Wave) gave me the finisher that I needed. I suppose Walk the Aeons may be a d-bag card, but I'm okay with that
As long as you're going to win the game with it immediately, it's far from a mean play. Seems fine to me. Isn't it hard (and painful) to find three islands to sac for the buyback though? I'd think you'd better off with Time Stretch or Time Warp.
I don't really know which one is better- the leviathan or Ixidron. I'm thinking Unearth puts the Leviathan over the edge but he costs SO MUCH MANA... I do want some sort of wrath on a creature (gotta do better than blue chancellor for that unfortunately) to keep things under control. I'm gonna have to seriously think about this guy.
And some of my advice would be worth cash, but probably nothing here. Thanks though
Thanks much for the compliment! Didn't help me much against Kaalia much last night when I couldn't find a wrath but it's something I'll have to think about moving forward. As for sneak attack... hm, I guess I would cut Fierce Empath (now that I've got survival and friends). ALSO, I would definitely put Crystal Shard back in the deck because it is ever-loving INSANE with Sneak Attack and it would be enough to put it over the top for sure.
Wow that thought just made me want to go buy one...
Tezz is great for lots of decks. He isn't just a bad fabricate. He does some good work and I am a huge fan of him. Mangcho and I just don't have the number of utility artifacts I'd want to make him good in these particular decks but I wouldn't say he's a bad choice overall. Once you get into three colors or more, artifacts are less needed to plug the holes in your colors' game. And by the way, you can definitely use Riku to copy the artifact that comes into play if it's a creature- say, Spellskite or Phyrexian Metamorph.
I like Gamble. I use it early to find some ramp or a beater, something my hand needs but doesn't have. And I use it late when I'm going for the win. Don't think of it as a 20% or so chance of failure- think of it as an 80% chance that you just demonic tutor-ed outside of black for one mana and an extra card. And some of those cards love to be in the yard like Genesis and such so that's one more thing it's got going for it. I'm not ready to cut it just yet. As far as copying it goes, one is much more likely to be copying what you GET with Gamble, rather than Gamble itself... don't you think?
And Nin and Stuffy Doll are good together, but that's if Nin is the general. She was my general for the last two or three months before Riku showed up last Tuesday. I can't just throw away two spots in the deck for an insular and somewhat underwhelming combo like that, though I'll admit Nin herself is probably underrated card draw in a survival deck.
-----------------------
As for the actual deck, I'm probably going to cut something for Squee for the survival fuel. And suddenly Gamble gets even better. It's funny that every deck choice I make now somehow revolves around how good the cards are with Survival. Anyway, it's a foolproof first Survival Target and a stupid good draw engine. Something I wish I had the other night in a three-player game where Kaalia beat my face in even after a turn-two Skyshroud Claim because I couldn't find a wrath or a tutor for one.
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Not if you've got either Defense of the Heart or Birthing Pod! There are a few other things that put creatures right onto the battlefield from your deck on the cheap too, like Pattern of Rebirth, but the first two are what I'm relying on. I just put Natural Order in my list, but I don't think you've got enough green in your list to support that (and it won't grab a Kederekt Leviathan, but it can get me out of other jams).
You're considering Squee AND K. Leviathan? I'm converting you over to my list, muahaha! I really like the creature route, because they are so much more easily tutored/recurred than spells are. Making a creature toolbox deck makes me wonder if Momir Vig wouldn't a better general for the deck, lol. Riku certainly is a better force multiplier though (and we get Squee and Kiki-Jiki with red!).
I've been thinking, too bad we don't have access to white. Sunblast Angel and Novablast Wurm would fit that role really well. Alas...
So you've put your deck together already? I just started ordering my cards, is your wallet screaming as much as mine is?
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Teferi, mage of Zhalfir
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sphinx ambassador is awesome.
Potential reusable bribery is FTW, and you can dupe what it steals.
I mean, its not an "OMG Gameender" card, but its REALLY fun to play with.
Also, I'm on the reverse side of the kederkt debate.
We're playing multiplayer, we don't exactly need too many fieldwipes, since we should have the best board position most of the time, blowing out all our tokens seems counterintuitive.
In those cases where a token deck gets out of hand, some other player should be able to tutor up a wrath to deal with them, allowing us to save our precious deckslots for more relevant cards.
Thats just my 2 cents and why I won't be running the leviathan.
UWBSharuum the HegemonBWU
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestGU
Even then, I prefur to run Earthcraft instead of Aluren in my Animar deck. I feel they are somewhat similar in how they play and both can allow Man-O'-War to flicker infinitely.
Personally I feel that Aluren is at its best in an Omnath, Locus of Mana deck. The fact that if he is killed, you can replay him off of Aluren and keep your mana pool makes it very powerful there. It is also extremely good in a Momir Vig, Simic Visionary deck as you can chain all of your 1-3 mana creatures through your deck using vig to draw and tutor them up.
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Other good targets:
Sensei's Divining Top obviously manipulating the topdeck is always solid. This card makes it into like 95% of all of my decks.
Relic of Progenitus obviously graveyard hate is always good as well. The big perc on running this one is the ability to draw a card as well so it replaces itself.
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Again with the Kederekt Leviathan thing I think I might just have a bad taste in my mouth from not being able to find a wrath the other night. I think it would be rash to change the deck. Squee, though, is getting in for sure. (That reminds me- need a skullclamp in there too just for him. Gargadon might be on the way out.) It was my birthday recently so I've been quite busy and I haven't had the time to screw with the deck I'd like to have- probably this evening. And yeah, if you want to run the best creature toolbox deck possible Vig blows Riku out of the water. It's not even close. But I'd like to see Vig Bribery two players at once!! Besides, he's a tutor general- sooo boring. At least with survival, we've got to work to find it and have a backup plan if we can't.
As for my wallet, I owned a lot of these cards already from my Nin and Tibor and Lumia decks- I just needed to get lots of the green stuff. I was actually able to trade for a Foil Genesis and a Survival so I didn't have to spend a ton of money- just the Intuition and the Wooded Foothills set me back a bit but it's worth having a baby you can call your own
Nice find bud :o. Sounds like a blast. I'll be sure to recommend him for players with budgets and for those of us looking to get funky with the list. I like Chancellor of the Spires better right now since he's almost always a 187 at the least and has even more upside, but yeah that Sphinx is not messing around huh?
Welcome to the thread!
I would say that if you're playing Aluren outside of Omnath, you are pretty much playing a combo card. You should build around it as much as possible. This is workable with any U/G general but Vig and Animar are probably the best choices. If you have a special thing for Riku though you can certainly use him for his colors and late-game reach with some bounce outlets like Man-o'-War and friends.
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Sounds good, I think Squee will find a good home in this deck. He just works so well with so many cards that its crazy. Plus he is always a chump blocker if nothing else.
As for Sphinx Ambassador, I have to say watch out with this guy. He is slow rolling and everyone freaks out when he comes down. I used to use him in my Teferi deck which needs to be retooled and he was a blast. But I droped him in with flash and teferi covering for him. I don't know what I think about slow rolling him out for everyone to see and give them a turn to respond to him... Personally I would run him in a more permission type deck than a Riku deck.
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Do you think Skullclamp is good enough to make it with Squee involved? I'm not sure about it. I could just be playing Rhystic Study (albeit without a reliable tutor for it). Almost all of my utility guys have 2+ toughness. What do you think?
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Here is the breakdown of your list in my mind:
KILLS:
Coiling Oracle he is there for his CIP ability and he might chump block. If you dont need the chump drawing 2 cards after getting one for him coming in seems amazingly good.
Fierce Empath another creature there for their CIP triggers. If you need a chump keep him arround. Otherwise drawing fuel is always good so toss him to it.
Squee, Goblin Nabob draw 2 cards every turn for 4 mana??? That sounds fantastic. Otherwise he can be used for a ton of other things as well.
Eternal Witness there for her CIP ability. Sac her off for cards afterwards.
Yavimaya Elder so... you can draw 1 card for 2 or you can draw 2 cards for 1... seems self explanitary.
GOOD ON:
Fauna Shaman you dont want to outright kill her but putting the clamp on her will detur people from killing her in the future as they dont like giving you cards.
Spellskite this thing is built to be a lightning rod. It is assumed that you will redirect a spot kill to it. So of course you would love to take a free 2 cards from this thing dying as dying is what this guy does.
Trinket Mage he tutors it up then he hooks it up. What a champ of a chump blocker as he goes to get the amazing card draw engine then steps in front of that big green beater to draw you 2 cards. Whoooo. What else were you going to do with him after getting your card from his CIP? Drawing 2 and preventing damage sounds good to me.
Glen Elendra Archmage this thing has persist and a built in sac option. How is this not built for clamp. MMMMM 4 cards drawn and the potential to counter 2 noncreature spells. OOOOO sign me up.
Oracle of Mul Daya another creature you dont particularly want to die. Hook the clamps on and at least make it to your advantage if it happens. It can also detur them from doing it.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker again another creature that you dont want dying. Put the clamsp on as a precaution and hope to at least be rewarded for when it happens.
Avenger of Zendikar you realize that those tokens really read, pay a mana, sac and draw 2 cards right The only downside is you need to do your drawing before you drop a land. But other than that I have used the tokens to just draw tons of cards plenty of times.
It also works amazingly with sac outlets such as High Market as you can afford to slap the Skullclamp onto the larger creatures in preparation of them possibly dying.
Really any creature other than you commander is quite adventitious to hook the clamp onto. Creatures die a lot in EDH and you might as well be rewarded for it. I love kicking tokens out of a Mimic Vat that have a sac option then hook the clamp up and sac them off. MMMMMM delish. The bottom line being that I feel that a creature heavy deck that has Trinket Mage in it really should consider the card as it is totally nuts. I have drawn sooooooo many cards off of Skullclamp in the past that it is usually considered for decks right after Sol Ring and Top.
EDIT: I figured I would ask you how a few of your cards had been panning out so far while I was at it. I guess it is early enough in your deck's history that you might not have had any experience using them yet but let me know:
Venser, Shaper Savant obviously tricky to work around. Have you used him yet? Do you have to not copy him? Did you copy him? Did you have to then play arround the copy or did you find a way to sac it off???
Krosan Grip obviously a favorite of greens. My question being can you copy it with Riku though. I guess I dont fully understand when Riku makes his copy of a spell. It sounds to me like Riku makes his copy when it is on the stack already meaning you cannot use him to kick off a copy of the grip. Has this been a problem at all??? Do you think you would consider running a different effect due to this???
Decimate have you had any problems with finding enough targets to cast it??? It seems like an amazing spell if you find that you can get enough targets more often than not.
Defense of the Heart how often do you find yourself holding this in hand unable to get it to pop? I see a ton of wraths and usually shy of someone dropping an Avenger into play it wont activate. Due to this I have personally cut this card from my own lists.
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Skullclamp kills: Any creature in his deck with 1 toughness.
Skullclamp is good on: Any creature in his deck with more than 1 toughness.
Defense is the same scenario, if you play it they will never drop a 3rd creature, if you hold it, they will likely kill it once it hits play. I think Tooth n Nail is prolly just better and the only one you need.\
What is your opinion of Meekstone seems how like 80% of our creatures are less than 3 power?
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I know personally cards like Meekstone paint a huge bullseye on your forehead and thus I avoid such cards.
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as far as the meekstone comment, I think Riku himself paints a pretty large target on herself anyways.
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You can copy Krosan Grip. Riku's copying ability is not an activated ability -- it's a triggered ability. It's just like Counterbalance. With counterbalance out on your opponent's field, Krosan Grip triggers Counterbalance and they have to reveal to see if its countered.
Also - I thought of Mystifying Maze this morning. Useful against opponents, but also useful to get ETB triggers again on your own dudes if you feel like using it that way. Also good for resetting Persist counters and the Unearth EOT exile effect (for K. Leviathan). :-D
edit: Mystifying Maze says "opponent controls", so that doesn't work. Drat.
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Teferi, mage of Zhalfir
I'm trying to keep combos out of my deck, but that one is pretty funny. At least it's a combo that only works against one player, so the temptation to just instantly win the game against everyone isn't really there like it is for some of the others.
Don't forget Tunnel Vision also works with other format goodstuff like Hinder, Spell Crumple, and Jace, The Mind Sculptor. And if you're really dedicated to that combo, you can go Mystical Tutor, Personal Tutor, or Merchant Scroll to find the pieces.
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Venser, Shaper Savant: I'm kind of on the fence about with him. I am not sure he does enough to get the spot permanently but I'm still testing him out. I have some family coming to town this weekend so any playtime I get I'm probably going to have to squeeze in on the side. I guess I'd say he's cuttable, but I don't know for what.
Krosan Grip: As you have read, K Grip is copiable. I have sometimes felt that this card isn't versatile enough and I don't play in a meta where split second is that big a deal, but I'll keep it for now because seriously, when is there not a good target for it?
Decimate: I will have yet to really know for sure how tough this is to cast. I 1v1 with my wife's Darien once in a while and there's always targets in there but other decks I'm not so sure about. Again, I think this is cuttable but not sure I've had enough experience with it yet.
Defense of the Heart: I figure what this card will do more often than not is prompt wraths from my opponents, which is actually quite good for the Riku deck. I'll keep it in for now seeing as how one activation hits AoZ and Glen Elendra Archmage and basically wins the game. Terastodon is a great enabler for it, by the way. Like your assessment of the other cards, these are ALL pretty cuttable and are on my own personal little watch list. This card is the most likely one to get cut for Time Warp or Sneak Attack, in my opinion.
Meekstone is likely to lose us the game rather than win it, based on the comments made already and the fact that we are still winning by swinging.
Yeah what a card, huh? I think he's fantastic. He's got some rough competition over the other beaters but he's definitely a viable alternative in the event that Chancellor of the Spires or Conquering Manticore drop the slack. FoF is great in the deck and having another one is just gravy. Like it's almost worth cutting FoF for the sphinx
'Nuff said. This deck missed d-bag back at Time Stretch and Palinchron.
I don't like the set-life-to-10 effects either but I don't think we need that argument here derailing the conversation. There is a fine line between powerful and jerk plays and that discussion really belongs in the main forum, where there are probably hundreds of threads about it.
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1 Riku of Two Reflections
Creatures: [26]
1 Acidic Slime
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Body Double
1 Chancellor of the Spires
1 Clone
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Duplicant
1 Eternal Witness
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Indrik Stomphowler
1 Inferno Titan
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Magmatic Force
1 Mnemonic Wall
1 Mulldrifter
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Primeval Titan
1 Sakashima the Impostor
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Urabrask the Hidden
1 Wood Elves
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Cauldron of Souls
1 Coalition Relic
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mimic Vat
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
Enchantments: [3]
1 Mana Reflection
1 Sneak Attack
1 Sylvan Library
Spells: [24]
1 Capsize
1 Chain Reaction
1 Chord of Calling
1 Comet Storm
1 Cultivate
1 Explosive Vegetation
1 Fork
1 Genesis Wave
1 Guided Passage
1 Hull Breach
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Regrowth
1 Reiterate
1 Reverberate
1 Rite of Replication
1 Spitting Image
1 Sprouting Vines
1 Starstorm
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Twincast
1 Walk the Aeons
1 Wild Ricochet
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Halimar Depths
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Strip Mine
1 Temple of the False God
1 Vesuva
33 Others
This time, the amount of mana ramp was just right, although it does have problems dealing with creatures. I lost the first game to a dragon deck that pulled off Sarkhan Vol's ultimate and then dropped Karrthus. I had Tooth and Nail in hand and Riku in play, but there wasn't anything I could tutor for that would save me. I'm considering Tornado Elemental or even that new uncommon spider from M12 that destroys fliers, which have posed a problem in several games now.
In the second game, the deck worked beautifully: I was able cast Primeval Titan with Riku and Mana Reflection out, then cast and copy Walk the Aeons. I showed my opponents Genesis Wave and Fork (I had at least 30 mana available at this point), and we shuffled up for the next game. Most of the time I wouldn't approve of having the ability to take 4+ turns in a row, but Walk the Aeons (and Genesis Wave) gave me the finisher that I needed. I suppose Walk the Aeons may be a d-bag card, but I'm okay with that
I've noticed this too about Riku's colors, but there are a few answers. A few creatures are Gilded Drake, Ixidron, Sower of Temptation, Duplicant, and Phyrexian Ingester (and the Kederekt Leviathan we've been discussing). There's also Blatant Thievery if you go the non-creature route. Dominate too, but the cost on that one is pretty high.
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Keep in mind that if you have any eldrazi in your meta that they screw this combo up. My meta is sort of hit and miss with arround half of the decks running eldrazi so I personally do not run this as a game winning combo because I find that if I cannot pick who I want to die that it is a lot less effective.
Say that one of the players who runs one of the big eldrazi is running away with the game. You cannot use the combo to kill them off so is it really worth having??? Just keep in mind that if the combo does work then you can expect to start seeing a few of them in your meta.
Good to hear you have reconsidered on the clamp. It is an amazing card and I find it great in any creature based deck. Just remember that it is dead on your commander unless you are willing to toss him in the bin for the cards. Other than that it is amazing.
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Your list does look a little short on sweepers. I only see O-stone and Chain Reaction. You could try Echoing Truth and Evacuation for token problems. Evacuation being an instant is great. Also, Starstorm is usually better than Chain Reaction because of the instant speed and cycling. All is Dust is another really great option that's never been cheaper to buy than it is now. Having a couple of these available to you to be tutored off Mystical Tutor should shore up your aggro matchups a bit. You could cut some narrow role-players like Sculpting Steel and Sprouting Vines.
Also, have you tried Crystal Shard with Sneak Attack? It sounds incredible...
As long as you're going to win the game with it immediately, it's far from a mean play. Seems fine to me. Isn't it hard (and painful) to find three islands to sac for the buyback though? I'd think you'd better off with Time Stretch or Time Warp.
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