I don't think that character in Jace's name is 台. Other than that I don't think that character looks like 台, its appearance at the start of Jace's name is also unlikely. From your list the only times where 台 appears at the start of a phrase is 台所, which means kitchen, or 台地, which means mesa, neither of which fits Jace. (As much as we'd all like to see Jace of the Kitchen, it isn't going to happen.)
台 on its own means something like 'elevated surface'/'stage', which isn't very helpful. Usually it'll appear with a sort of descriptor before it, for example 灯台 (lighthouse), literally 'light tower'.
The examples posted from magiccards.info were just ideas. There is still the possibility of a new name, the likes of which have not yet been printed in Japanese. Jace of the Typhoon for example 台風のジェイス. There are many options for a new name with that character, not just what has been printed already. (though I'm with you on Jace of the Kitchen. I could see him wearing a blue apron with a glowing cake in his hands...)
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4cc planeswalkers will always beat +4cc planeswalkers. The only exception is Gideon because of his design. He has strong aggro control abilities, high as hell loyalty and if anything can turn into a dude to swing. Venser and Sarkhan 2.0 remain in the outskirts of playability because of that extra mana. And Elspeth 2.0 is a sorry pathetic shadow of her former self.
Then we got Sorin and Ablaze... while Sorin has some good abilities is freaking 6 mana [3 of which is triple black so harder to splash]. Speed is very important to have in a planeswalker since you want them to do their job as soon as possible when they get to the field and try to stick them there. Blowing all that mana only for it to get blown up gives me a /sadface.
God I wish there was a smaller Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker. But then again his abilities wouldn't be that crazy if they were... lol
This is precisely one of the reasons why I can't understand how Development is perfectly ok with printing 4cc Planeswalkers such as Koth of the Hammer or Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, whose minor abilities can single-handedly win the game in relatively few turns, while more expensive 'walkers such as Venser, the Sojourner tend to have situational minor abilities and more powerful ultimates.
Basic tempo theory dictates that the more expensive a planeswalker is, the more powerful its minor abilities should become. If you consider a 5cc 'walker will normally see one less activation than its 4cc counterparts, you should expect its plus and minus abilities to reflect this opportunity cost in some way. Flexible they may be, it's hard to make a case that blinking a permanent, dealing 1 damage to target player, etc. is quantifiably more powerful than untapping and animating a mountain into a 4/4 creature, Brainstorming or permanently animating an artifact into a 5/5 creature, especially when two of those abilities actually increase their 'walkers loyalty.
It's important to note that we already have some pretty good examples of how planeswalkers should be cost with respect to their abilities. Garruk Wildspeaker, Ajani Vengeant, Gideon Jura, Karn the Liberated and Tezzeret the Seeker are great examples of the sweet spot, while Jace Beleren has great minor abilities but an awful ultimate. In all of these cases, we're looking at reasonable plus and minus abilities for their cost, powerful minus abilities that are restricted by their inability to be safely used each turn, and exciting yet somewhat situational ultimates that can single-handedly win the game under the right circumstances (which are not all that hard to attain either).
Conversely, 'walkers such as Sorin Markov, Lilianna Vess, Venser the Sojourner, Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, both Sarkhans and both Chandras all share some common flaws. First, despite their starting loyalty values and higher +ability numbers, their board impact is just too small or too situational to make up for increased cost, meatshield value included. It's not all that uncommon for players to activate their comparatively more powerful -abilities first, which significantly increases the risk of a random attacker or direct damage spell nullifying a greater investment. Finally, their ultimates, although definitely awe-inspiring, have no real advantage over those of their cheaper counterparts and often take just as many turns to activate and win with.
Since it's quite easy to identify these problems, it's not all that difficult to state some general guidelines for 'safe' planeswalker design:
1. Aggro-oriented 'walkers, especially those whose abilities can be translated into direct, non-situational board advantage, should be more expensive than their utility counterparts. These 'walkers are often worth several creature threats, and hence should be treated accordingly.
2. Plus loyalty abilities should be either situational or incorporate some form of drawback (mana cost counts as one under some circumstances). They should help to ramp up to your ultimate but they shouldn't allow you to win all by themselves. Examples: Garruk's +1 = good, Koth's +1 = bad.
3. Abilities that lead to situations where the player obtains a clear or non-situational benefit with every activation should lower a 'walker's loyalty accordingly. Generally speaking, positive board advantage and clock acceleration should cost more loyalty than sheer card advantage. Examples: Jace's -2 = good, Ajani Vengeant's -2 = good, Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas' -1 = bad.
4. Zero loyalty abilities should play on the tension generated from gambling with a 'walker's loyalty. They work much better when 'walker loyalty is three or lower because of burn range and average creature size. Since they can lead to sustained advantage scenarios, they should be card advantage-neutral whenever possible. Examples: Gideon's 0 = passable (better with lower loyalty values), JtMS' 0 = bad.
5. Meatshield value has proven mostly overrated. Hence, it's ok to have low-CMC 'walkers with higher +loyalty values and high-CMC 'walkers with low (or nonexistent) +loyalty abilities, especially if their corresponding -loyalty abilities also have higher numbers. Examples: Ajani Vengeant's minor abilities = good, Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas' minor abilities = bad.
6. Since high-CMC planeswalkers hit the board later, their ultimate ramp should be shortened accordingly to compensate for the opportunity cost and relative investment. It's perfectly ok for low-CMC 'walkers to have long ramps, or even no ultimate abilities at all, but care should be taken not to give them ultimates that can turn into immediate threats unless some kind of gamble is involved (note: self-replacing seldom counts as a gamble). Examples: Elspeth Tirel's ultimate = good, Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas' ultimate = bad.
7. Since a Planeswalker is essentially competing against opposing creatures for their cost, their starting loyalty shouldn't necessarily be proportional to its mana cost (e.g. 3cmc = 3 loyalti, as seems to be the most common occurrence). Instead, starting loyalty should be determined by the expected interaction with creatures of similar cost (e.g. do you want it to survive a 5/5 played the same turn, die to it, or die to a smaller creature?). Examples: Ajani Vengeant's starting loyalty = good. Venser, the Sojourner's starting loyalty = bad. Lilianna Vess' starting loyalty and +/- costs = very, very bad.
Great catch OP. I can't believe people are still arguing with this... We know the titans are coming back, and why would anyone buy boxes of M12 without a cycle of chase mythics?
I can think of a couple of options from the 台 character that I could see being worked into his name:
台頭 - Refers to someone's rise to prominence. Jace Baleren, Risen to Power or something like that.
台名 - This would be some sort of high military rank. Dunno if that fits with Jace's story.
台辞 - These are a person's words or lines. I could see them doing something that fits with his telepathic abilities.
Edit - I totally bet it's 台頭 and the English name is Jace, Ascended X or Jace, X Ascendent. That's such a WotC name!
Great catch OP. I can't believe people are still arguing with this... We know the titans are coming back, and why would anyone buy boxes of M12 without a cycle of chase mythics?
I can think of a couple of options from the 台 character that I could see being worked into his name:
台頭 - Refers to someone's rise to prominence. Jace Baleren, Risen to Power or something like that.
台名 - This would be some sort of high military rank. Dunno if that fits with Jace's story.
台辞 - These are a person's words or lines. I could see them doing something that fits with his telepathic abilities.
Edit - I totally bet it's 台頭 and the English name is Jace, Ascended X or Jace, X Ascendent. That's such a WotC name!
That's an ironic name... Maybe he should be called Jace, Descended.
Hate to be a spoilsport but there is literally nothing to suppose the cards behind are the planeswalkers at all, for all we know that could be 4 random cards in the correct colours.
As previously noted the green card has the same text as Primeval Titan, maybe they just grabbed a card of the correct colour to fan behind the Gideon.
This doesn't seem likely because of the obvious planeswalker frame that's in the picture.
Although this presents a reason to think that new forms of walkers are coming, with all that blurry scans, I reserve my opinion for the time at least a sliver of this is confirmed.
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Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
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This also means that only 3 reprint mythics are revealed. 4 spots more could mean full reprint of titan cycle.
NNOOOOOO!!!!! i hate magic:swear: and am never satisfied because of powercreep.
but seriously, these titans need to go. in other news, i now have some incentive to go and draft/buy m12. (who am i kidding, I'd draft even if all the cards were reprints and jace 2.0 power levels were commons. )
I also hope that someday in the future another good 3cmc planeswalker will be made. 4 is the ideal, but it shouldn't be bad to let one or two of them get the low 3cmc.
Not trying to burst anyones bubbles, several of us had talked about the differences in the artwork you can see from the DoP12 trailer very shortly after it was released.
Problem was with it was that we had no way to confirm they were new cards or just reprints with new arts.
THIS however pretty much confirms new walkers for Garruk, Chandra, and Jace. I'm very happy.
Not necessarily new (hopefully though it'll be something completely new in red and blue (not jace/chandra 3.0) and a Garruk 2.0 in green).
So far we know that Black and White are getting reprints. Maybe we're getting Koth, Nissa & Tezz 1.0 (not sure though, I haven't checked the image names against gatherer).
There's no reason to believe Koth, Nissa, or Tezz are being reprinted in the stead of new or old Chandra, Garruk, and Jace planeswalker cards. Chandra, Garruk, and Jace are on the M12 posters and products (like the fat pack), and numerous cards in the set bear their names.
Garruk is probably the most balanced of any walker. If you have ever complained about Jace, you wouldn't want walkers any more powerful than Garruk.
Garruk is less than outstanding right now. He was good in Lorwyn (I played him in elves and RG ramp), but he's not nearly as good as Jace TMS, Gideon Jura, and Koth. What was once good is not anymore (hurrah, power creep!).
Not necessarily new (hopefully though it'll be something completely new in red and blue (not jace/chandra 3.0) and a Garruk 2.0 in green).
So far we know that Black and White are getting reprints. Maybe we're getting Koth, Nissa & Tezz 1.0 (not sure though, I haven't checked the image names against gatherer).
Are you serious? We already have cards with Jace, Chandra, and Garuuk in their names. They are 100% guaranteed in the set we just don't know if they are reprints or new versions.
So far we know that Black and White are getting reprints. Maybe we're getting Koth, Nissa & Tezz 1.0 (not sure though, I haven't checked the image names against gatherer).
There's no reason to believe Koth, Nissa, or Tezz are being reprinted in the stead of new or old Chandra, Garruk, and Jace planeswalker cards. Chandra, Garruk, and Jace are on the M12 posters and products (like the fat pack), and numerous cards in the set bear their names.
these kind of walkers are left for block stories or just to add flavor to them. not just any walker gets the right to be in a core set. tezz is a fine example of this, he would only make sense showing up when lots of artifacts are involved, thus he appears on mirrodin. and his abilities need lots of artifacts in the block, imagine opening him in a core set, with only 20 artifacts total. that would suck, draft wise, and core sets aim to excite new players in limited and to teach them how to play.
I think there's some evidence against new names, at least against a name such as "Garruk, Lord of Nature". According to the Name and Number Crunch, the space for Garruk, Chandra, and Jace are before cards such as "Garruk's Companion", "Chandra's Outrage", and "Jace's Erasure". Since the apostrophe character is alphabetically before the comma character, alphabetically the card "Garruk, Something of Something" would come after "Garruk's Companion" and "Garruk's Horde".
So, if we do see new versions of these walkers, they will not have titles; just simple names in the way that Chandra Nalaar became Chandra Ablaze.
TL;DR: no possibility of "Garruk, Something of Something" style name.
edit: actually there is room for a new "Jace, ..." walker after Jace's Erasure, and room for a new "Chandra, ..." walker if the Circle of Protection: Red is not an actual card. However, there is no room for a "Garruk, ..." walker.
I think there's some evidence against new names, at least against a name such as "Garruk, Lord of Nature". According to the Name and Number Crunch, the space for Garruk, Chandra, and Jace are before cards such as "Garruk's Companion", "Chandra's Outrage", and "Jace's Erasure". Since the apostrophe character is alphabetically before the comma character, alphabetically the card "Garruk, Something of Something" would come after "Garruk's Companion" and "Garruk's Horde".
So, if we do see new versions of these walkers, they will not have titles; just simple names in the way that Chandra Nalaar became Chandra Ablaze.
TL;DR: no possibility of "Garruk, Something of Something" style name.
edit: actually there is room for a new "Jace, ..." walker after Jace's Erasure, and room for a new "Chandra, ..." walker if the Circle of Protection: Red is not an actual card. However, there is no room for a "Garruk, ..." walker.
I think they do still have room for new names since a blank space " " comes before the s, so Jace, title would still come before Jace's Archivist, at least I would think.
I think they do still have room for new names since a blank space " " comes before the s, so Jace, title would still come before Jace's Archivist, at least I would think.
No, my whole point is that an apostrophe comes before the s. the blank comes AFTER the s in "Jace's Archivist".
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The examples posted from magiccards.info were just ideas. There is still the possibility of a new name, the likes of which have not yet been printed in Japanese. Jace of the Typhoon for example 台風のジェイス. There are many options for a new name with that character, not just what has been printed already. (though I'm with you on Jace of the Kitchen. I could see him wearing a blue apron with a glowing cake in his hands...)
WUControlWU
Commander (EDH)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR
WRGMayael the AnimaWRG
This is precisely one of the reasons why I can't understand how Development is perfectly ok with printing 4cc Planeswalkers such as Koth of the Hammer or Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, whose minor abilities can single-handedly win the game in relatively few turns, while more expensive 'walkers such as Venser, the Sojourner tend to have situational minor abilities and more powerful ultimates.
Basic tempo theory dictates that the more expensive a planeswalker is, the more powerful its minor abilities should become. If you consider a 5cc 'walker will normally see one less activation than its 4cc counterparts, you should expect its plus and minus abilities to reflect this opportunity cost in some way. Flexible they may be, it's hard to make a case that blinking a permanent, dealing 1 damage to target player, etc. is quantifiably more powerful than untapping and animating a mountain into a 4/4 creature, Brainstorming or permanently animating an artifact into a 5/5 creature, especially when two of those abilities actually increase their 'walkers loyalty.
It's important to note that we already have some pretty good examples of how planeswalkers should be cost with respect to their abilities. Garruk Wildspeaker, Ajani Vengeant, Gideon Jura, Karn the Liberated and Tezzeret the Seeker are great examples of the sweet spot, while Jace Beleren has great minor abilities but an awful ultimate. In all of these cases, we're looking at reasonable plus and minus abilities for their cost, powerful minus abilities that are restricted by their inability to be safely used each turn, and exciting yet somewhat situational ultimates that can single-handedly win the game under the right circumstances (which are not all that hard to attain either).
Conversely, 'walkers such as Sorin Markov, Lilianna Vess, Venser the Sojourner, Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, both Sarkhans and both Chandras all share some common flaws. First, despite their starting loyalty values and higher +ability numbers, their board impact is just too small or too situational to make up for increased cost, meatshield value included. It's not all that uncommon for players to activate their comparatively more powerful -abilities first, which significantly increases the risk of a random attacker or direct damage spell nullifying a greater investment. Finally, their ultimates, although definitely awe-inspiring, have no real advantage over those of their cheaper counterparts and often take just as many turns to activate and win with.
Since it's quite easy to identify these problems, it's not all that difficult to state some general guidelines for 'safe' planeswalker design:
1. Aggro-oriented 'walkers, especially those whose abilities can be translated into direct, non-situational board advantage, should be more expensive than their utility counterparts. These 'walkers are often worth several creature threats, and hence should be treated accordingly.
2. Plus loyalty abilities should be either situational or incorporate some form of drawback (mana cost counts as one under some circumstances). They should help to ramp up to your ultimate but they shouldn't allow you to win all by themselves. Examples: Garruk's +1 = good, Koth's +1 = bad.
3. Abilities that lead to situations where the player obtains a clear or non-situational benefit with every activation should lower a 'walker's loyalty accordingly. Generally speaking, positive board advantage and clock acceleration should cost more loyalty than sheer card advantage. Examples: Jace's -2 = good, Ajani Vengeant's -2 = good, Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas' -1 = bad.
4. Zero loyalty abilities should play on the tension generated from gambling with a 'walker's loyalty. They work much better when 'walker loyalty is three or lower because of burn range and average creature size. Since they can lead to sustained advantage scenarios, they should be card advantage-neutral whenever possible. Examples: Gideon's 0 = passable (better with lower loyalty values), JtMS' 0 = bad.
5. Meatshield value has proven mostly overrated. Hence, it's ok to have low-CMC 'walkers with higher +loyalty values and high-CMC 'walkers with low (or nonexistent) +loyalty abilities, especially if their corresponding -loyalty abilities also have higher numbers. Examples: Ajani Vengeant's minor abilities = good, Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas' minor abilities = bad.
6. Since high-CMC planeswalkers hit the board later, their ultimate ramp should be shortened accordingly to compensate for the opportunity cost and relative investment. It's perfectly ok for low-CMC 'walkers to have long ramps, or even no ultimate abilities at all, but care should be taken not to give them ultimates that can turn into immediate threats unless some kind of gamble is involved (note: self-replacing seldom counts as a gamble). Examples: Elspeth Tirel's ultimate = good, Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas' ultimate = bad.
7. Since a Planeswalker is essentially competing against opposing creatures for their cost, their starting loyalty shouldn't necessarily be proportional to its mana cost (e.g. 3cmc = 3 loyalti, as seems to be the most common occurrence). Instead, starting loyalty should be determined by the expected interaction with creatures of similar cost (e.g. do you want it to survive a 5/5 played the same turn, die to it, or die to a smaller creature?). Examples: Ajani Vengeant's starting loyalty = good. Venser, the Sojourner's starting loyalty = bad. Lilianna Vess' starting loyalty and +/- costs = very, very bad.
I can think of a couple of options from the 台 character that I could see being worked into his name:
台頭 - Refers to someone's rise to prominence. Jace Baleren, Risen to Power or something like that.
台名 - This would be some sort of high military rank. Dunno if that fits with Jace's story.
台辞 - These are a person's words or lines. I could see them doing something that fits with his telepathic abilities.
Edit - I totally bet it's 台頭 and the English name is Jace, Ascended X or Jace, X Ascendent. That's such a WotC name!
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
That's an ironic name... Maybe he should be called Jace, Descended.
If by "they" you mean MaRo and by "have explicitly stated" you mean second hand information.
This doesn't seem likely because of the obvious planeswalker frame that's in the picture.
JAMMIT DIM! I'm a DOCTOR not a DECKBUILDER!
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
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NNOOOOOO!!!!! i hate magic:swear: and am never satisfied because of powercreep.
but seriously, these titans need to go. in other news, i now have some incentive to go and draft/buy m12. (who am i kidding, I'd draft even if all the cards were reprints and jace 2.0 power levels were commons. )
I also hope that someday in the future another good 3cmc planeswalker will be made. 4 is the ideal, but it shouldn't be bad to let one or two of them get the low 3cmc.
Me too... o_O
Problem was with it was that we had no way to confirm they were new cards or just reprints with new arts.
THIS however pretty much confirms new walkers for Garruk, Chandra, and Jace. I'm very happy.
EDH:
UBGThe MimeoplasmUBG
Wait... what? Are you saying the Wildspeaker wasn't worth a damn?
- Main Cube
- No Brains, All Feelings Cube
Garruk is probably the most balanced of any walker. If you have ever complained about Jace, you wouldn't want walkers any more powerful than Garruk.
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
There's no reason to believe Koth, Nissa, or Tezz are being reprinted in the stead of new or old Chandra, Garruk, and Jace planeswalker cards. Chandra, Garruk, and Jace are on the M12 posters and products (like the fat pack), and numerous cards in the set bear their names.
Garruk is less than outstanding right now. He was good in Lorwyn (I played him in elves and RG ramp), but he's not nearly as good as Jace TMS, Gideon Jura, and Koth. What was once good is not anymore (hurrah, power creep!).
EDH:
UBGThe MimeoplasmUBG
Are you serious? We already have cards with Jace, Chandra, and Garuuk in their names. They are 100% guaranteed in the set we just don't know if they are reprints or new versions.
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1959
Chandra, Garruk, and Jace were confirmed a long while ago when WotC released the "Gather Your Allies" video, the one narrated by Gideon.
At the end, we get this image, which clearly shows the M12 Planeswalkers.
these kind of walkers are left for block stories or just to add flavor to them. not just any walker gets the right to be in a core set. tezz is a fine example of this, he would only make sense showing up when lots of artifacts are involved, thus he appears on mirrodin. and his abilities need lots of artifacts in the block, imagine opening him in a core set, with only 20 artifacts total. that would suck, draft wise, and core sets aim to excite new players in limited and to teach them how to play.
So, if we do see new versions of these walkers, they will not have titles; just simple names in the way that Chandra Nalaar became Chandra Ablaze.
TL;DR: no possibility of "Garruk, Something of Something" style name.
edit: actually there is room for a new "Jace, ..." walker after Jace's Erasure, and room for a new "Chandra, ..." walker if the Circle of Protection: Red is not an actual card. However, there is no room for a "Garruk, ..." walker.
I think they do still have room for new names since a blank space " " comes before the s, so Jace, title would still come before Jace's Archivist, at least I would think.
RGW Rith, the Awakener
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
UBR Nicol Bolas
GWU Treva, the Renewer
RWU Numot, the Devastator
No, my whole point is that an apostrophe comes before the s. the blank comes AFTER the s in "Jace's Archivist".