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knows your secrets
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Updated 5/25/13 Designed by Tom Welcome, this is the primer for White Weenie, or, more specifically, Death and Taxes (in my opinion the most powerful form of WW). Variants and color splashes are also discussed here. If you are looking for the legacy version, the first of the three links below will help. If you aren't sure what the modern format is, the second of the three links below should explain it. Death and Taxes (Legacy; type 1.5) (Shout-out to Finn, creator of type 1.5 primer) Modern Rules / Banlist (Thanks Wizards, for the great format Heros of the Plane Studios (Thanks for the thread banner!) Table of Contents: I. The History, the Strategy, and the Key Cards II. Tricks, and how the Deck Plays Out III. Decklists IV. Card Choices V. Matchups I. The History, the Strategy, and the Key Cards
History:
![]() Modern D+T's History (Major changes in card choice trends) [8/12/11} Now that stoneforge mystic is banned in modern, leonin arbiter can be played without drawbacks. This shifts the strategy to a mana denial strategy, which happens to be really good for the metagame of modern. leonin arbiter and aven mindcensor can stop fetch-lands (such as verdant catacombs) a good deal of the time, and both can make path to exile and ghost quarter ten times better. Mangara of corondor, flickerwisp, aether vial, and a number of other good cards are still hanging around and perfectly legal, and they contribute to the strategy and make the deck faster and more powerful. In the next section, there is information about what makes these cards good and how D+T should work. [6/18/12} Mangara of corondor has been a very important piece to the theory behind D+T for a very long time. While he is still a good card, it's been found that he doesn't feel optimal any more. He is still a good option for some D+T lists, but as the metagame stands, he doesn't feel good enough for the mainstream lists; there is just too much removal, and the format is pretty fast. II. Tricks, and how the Deck Plays Out The deck is really fun to play with, but takes skill and thinking to master. Not a great deck for people who like to play more relaxed, but if you don't mind it's a very good choice. For people who like to put funny looks on their opponents' faces, a bonus is added. One can usually get all the cards needed from scratch for about $150, which is quite low compared to most decks out there. If you already have some of the cards, that price can be cut down quite a bit. First off, you need to be aware of the sheer power of flickerwisp. Here is a list compiled of the many tricks you can perform with him/her/it.
Flickerwisp Tricks (special thanks to Finn):
As you just saw, the deck works together very well, and it has a lot of really good options. Stonecloaker is also really good, and lists shall probably run him too, but as you can see, he can't do near the the stuff flickerwisp can. he can only target creatures, and only yours nonetheless. And it has to go back to your hand. He does have flash himself, which is nice, as well as an extra toughneSs and an ability that hurts graveyard based decks, but that doesn't level out the balance at all. 'Wisp is still superior. The main reason to run him is that he works with mangara in a similar way wisp does (vial tricks #6 in the spoiler above). And he's an awesome beater as well. Aside from the stonecloaker/flickerwisp interactions, here is an example of how powerful mangara is. He can totally change the game around:
Mangara's Ability: Maximized:
It's a vindicate on legs at first glance, but it can do a lot more as well. Interactions like this is not enough to kill your opponent, so we shall rely on fliers such as aven mindcensor, flickerwisp, serra avenger, stonecloaker, etc. while attempting to deny them of mana. The beatdown used to be a heck of a lot easier, when SFM was legal, but it is still powerful now as well. (Note: recent trends show that the metagame is too fast for mangara to be optimal. He is currently not in most D+T lists.) III. Deck Lists The below, mono white, is what most of the primer is about, as well as the main focus of my testing. It is my current list. Feel free to talk about color splashes and other versions, though.
This is another version I was testing somewhere around February 2013. It is Orzhov with a little green to utilize DRS further.
Other Possible Deck Routes:
IV. Card Choices There are many other cards that can be good in D+T, and this section goes through quite a bit of them. Card choices are important for each individual's metagame; my list is not necessarily the optimal list for the environment you play in.
Card Choices (for almost any D+T list):
V. Matchups great against:- Redless Tron (Search denial, land destruction, beats. It's generally pretty hard for them to win.) 70-75% good against:- Red Tron (Same as redless tron but pyroclasm can hurt.) 65-70% - Jund (Our lifegain, tricks, and large amounts of permanents usually works. Just pilot it well.) 60% - WBG (About the same as Jund, though maybe slightly worse because of their painfully large dudes.) 55-60% - Control (Most versions we can do pretty well with. Aether vial, thalia, and constant threats helps a lot.) 55-60% medium against:- Affinity (g1 is slightly in their favor, following games are in ours if you have enough finks/inquisitor.) 55-60% - Burn/RDW (Our lifegain can usually keep us alive while we bring the beats. Sometimes it can be a struggle, however.) 55-60% - Zoo (Similarly to Jund we have the edge, but zoo can be too aggressive sometimes if we don't get the right cards.) 55% - Pod (We have removal and search-denial, but let's face it, pod is good and can play around things.) 50-55% - Twin (We have minimal removal but some disruption. Really depends on what you have in the sideboard.) 50% - GW/Hatebears (This is generally a pretty close matchup that comes down to skillful combat.) 50% - Scapeshift (We have search denial, but they can often play around it.) 45-50% bad against:- Infect (We have blockers and we have path. That's about it besides possible SB cards such as spellskite.) 40% - Living End (We are a creature deck and they are living end. G2 we probably have graveyard hate.) 35-40% - Soul Sisters (Warden and the like is brutal when we flicker so much. It's pretty tough to come out ahead.) 35-40% - UWR Midrange (Lots of removal and counters, it's a pain.) 35-40% - Bogle (Really hard to stop their huge hexproof guys.) 30-35% terrible against:- Assault Loam (Burn, goyfs, seismic, liliana, etc. It can be a nightmare but is possible to play through.) 30% - Tokens (It's really hard to get through, but possible. Thalia helps.) 25-30% ...and once more, i'm continuously testing this deck as well as updating the primer. if you see typos, have any questions or comments, or just feel like doing so, please post below! Last edited by Tom; Yesterday at 02:54 AM. |
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#2 | |
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knows your secrets
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reserved..
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Last edited by Tom; 08-04-2011 at 04:32 PM. |
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#4 |
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Cowardly Scumbag
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Needs 4x Ghost Quarter and 4x Tectonic Edge
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#5 |
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has the Poontang Blues
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Shelly Wan's Misty Rainforest
Posts: 3,159
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Nice primer
Comments: StP obvious subsitute is PtE. However, that goes against the land denial plan. And you can still have that plan (as noted before) if you play Tectonic Edge and Ghost Quarter. That opens interesting choices. Because if you want to run G-Quarter, given that there will be more basics in modern than in Legacy you should probably add Leonin Arbiter (and thus, PtE). Leonin should be key, as probably Stoneforge decks will be strong and numerous. Also, depending on the amount of fetchlands and other shuffle effects, you could consider Oust as a replacement. The last way you could work it is to use Dispatch. That, however, would need more artifacts --> up the numbers of Revokers and Equipment. That route maybe would open to the possibility of trying Puresteel Paladin as a draw engine and overall goodnes and maaaaaybe Porcelain Legionaire (in the place of Jotun grunt?). Overall, tectonic edge seems like it will be the format's wasteland, over Ghost quarter. As for other nonbasic lands, it seems like mistveil plains could be played to recycle destroyed equipment (put it on the bottom and fetch it with stoneforge). I think that given that the format will be slower than legacy, Batterskull should be on your list. |
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#6 | ||
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knows your secrets
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Quote:
anyways, i shall consider leonin arbiter. i can foresee it causing problems with our own sfm. i shall add tec edge, but i'm not so sure about ghost quarter. i will add it if i add arbiter, but i don't know how it will do otherwise. they just search for a basic, and i lost more mana than they did. i don't know about mistveil plains, i'll think on it... i'm going to do some testing within the next three weeks and give a full report then. thanks for the comments!
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Last edited by Tom; 07-03-2011 at 06:47 PM. |
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#7 | ||||
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Ascended Mage
![]() Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 177
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This is the list I whipped up. Played a couple games (vs GWBR Vengevine, and vs Zoo) and I have yet to lose. My MVPs were definitely the search inhibitors, Aven Mindcensor and Leonin Arbiter, combined with PtE and Ghost Quarter.
Mod&Taxes:
Super heavy search tax is needed to play Ghost Quarter and PtE the way I like. I wish there was a suitable one drop to play. More aggro variants used to play Isamaru, Hound of Konda. Goldmeadows are nice, but I can't justify less aggro to put more in. Weathered Wayfarer is a good choice in Legacy sometimes, but all of the good utility lands are pre-Modern. My most favorable turn sequence is something like: T1> Vial T2> Stoneforge T3> Equipment, vial Arbiter in resp to a search ability -or- Arbiter, then Path something That sets you up to easily equip and swing, thus fulfilling the "death" aspect of the deck. Opted out of playing Mangara or Grunt. Mangara's just not worth it without Karakas, and Grunt was just pushed out for more search tax. EDIT: Dispatch is somewhat unreliable even in Tempered Steel decks. Without artifact lands, Metalcraft can take up to turn 4, even running Memnites and Ornithopters.
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Legacy: ![]() ![]() Enchantress![]() Death & Taxes![]() ![]() Tezz Affinity
Last edited by pqrqcf; 07-05-2011 at 12:42 PM. |
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#8 |
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has the Poontang Blues
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Shelly Wan's Misty Rainforest
Posts: 3,159
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You don't think running Mangara is worth it? While losing Karakas, the deck is still capable of "blinking" it with Flickerwisp and Stonecloaker, which are anyways good cards on their own. Also, those two cards seem pretty key as in modern there is no acces to Mother of Runes.
The bottomline would be: Worse case scenario, is worth paying ![]() ![]() for a Vindicate that can block once? I don't have any clue about the format, but my guts tell me that yes, it is worth it. Specially if you think that you'll usually be able to vial that vindicate in.
Last edited by Lorgalis; 07-04-2011 at 07:27 AM. |
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#9 | |
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knows your secrets
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@pqrqcf:
thanks for the feedback and testing! i'm probably going to try something similar to your version in testing, but (no offense), i still haven't gotten attached to this arbiter strategy. the old deck used to have every card work together, but with arbiters forcing you to pay 4 for a sfm makes me cringe. however, having a strip mine in the format is also very tempting. EDIT: also, if you had a sideboard, do you mind sharing it with us? thanks @lorgalis: i agree that mangara is extremely important; however, i haven't tested much yet. i will try a version or two without, then get back to everybody. Thanks so much for the feedback guys!
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Last edited by Tom; 07-04-2011 at 12:04 PM. |
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#10 |
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Ascended Mage
![]() Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 177
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Ah, no sideboard. Just whipped it up real quick to play on Cockatrice. I really don't have a handle on the Modern meta either. It'd probably be some number of utility creatures and versatile artifacts/enchantments.
Lorgalis: My goal with the list above was to start disrupting the game by turn two or three, and to most effectively capitalize on PtE and Ghost Quarter. Mangara doesn't have synergy with the rest of the build, and starts doing his job on turn four at the earliest, and only does it well if you have a Vial at three AND Stonecloaker/Flickerwisp in your hand, and on the off chance your opponent doesn't try to kill him off first. In builds with Stonecloaker, he's obviously much better, but then you have to rely less on disruption and more on removal. I'd rather affect the game state continuously with taxes than remove their threats with the possibility they'll bounce back.
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Legacy: ![]() ![]() Enchantress![]() Death & Taxes![]() ![]() Tezz Affinity
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#11 | ||
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knows your secrets
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Quote:
anyways, keep up the testing, your insight will be very helpful! also, if you don't mind testing with a list more similar to mine that would be great too. i'm not going to be home for a good week or so, and testing is impossible. if you do, let us know the pros and cons of each version! i'm planning on doing this sometime soon myself, but the more info the better! thanks for your help!
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#12 |
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Ascended Mage
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Posts: 177
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I've been lucky enough in my games to go T2 SFM T3 Arbiter in most cases. Either that, or I don't see Arbiter. I'll test a version with Cloaker and Mangara, and see how that goes.
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Legacy: ![]() ![]() Enchantress![]() Death & Taxes![]() ![]() Tezz Affinity
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#13 | ||
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knows your secrets
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Quote:
id think that you'd run into arbiter just as much as you'd run into sfm though, if you run 4 of each.
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#14 | |
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knows your secrets
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what do you guys think about student of warefare?
with mom gone, our only one drop is aether vial, and there is nothing to vial in with one counter. of course the downfalls to the student are pretty obvious... paying a bunch of mana and then watching it die. however, if you do have extra, it doesn't hurt to throw it at the student. could it possibly take the place of jotun grunt? btw, this is more of a question for those who have played the legacy version and know the value of grunt. many skilled players do not view grunt as very good, and overlook stonecloaker/wisp interactions.
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#15 |
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has the Poontang Blues
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Shelly Wan's Misty Rainforest
Posts: 3,159
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Meh, Student of Warfare deson't seem that good. Paying
![]() ![]() for a 3/3 first strike...I'm not convinced.Grunt is a very efficient beater that doubles as non instant graveyard hate. I think in the end it will become a meta choice. |
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