I remember an epic match I played against mutedequilibrium about a year ago. I was playing reliable ol' Gaddock Teeg versus his Akroma "The Red Queen" deck. Game 3 was so interactive and so back-and-forth; I had managed to weather most of the LD and had some kind of inevitability with Sacred Mesa. We both had tons of mana, but muted was totally out of gas. Alas, he taps EVERYTHING for a gajillion red, plays Decree of Annihilation, and uses the floating mana to replay his general, leaving me literally nothing with which to fight her. That was a sweet way to lose.
That's what I'm trying to duplicate with this deck. The entire goal is to amass mana for one giant Obliterate + Tariel, Reckoner of Souls. I have a decent amount of experience with various incarnations of TurboHaups, but never in EDH. I'm sure it will end in disaster.
Things to keep in mind:
1. The overall strategy will be the same every game. I'm relying on Tariel's built-in variance to keep things interesting.
2. Thanks to the abundance of busted black tutor effects, I should be able to find a supernova when I need one. I'll only play the ones that don't make me reveal, because I'm sure that showing everyone that I'm Beseeching for Jokulhaups will get me killed in a hurry.
3. The deck needs to hit every land drop ever, and recover from consistent application of LD. We will probably play 45 to 50 lands, plus mana rocks.
4. Should I play some sort of Bloodghast/Nether Traitor/Krovikan Horror engine? It might give me something to do early game, and it works well with Skullclamp.
5. The storage lands -- even the bad ones from Masques and Fallen Empires -- are nuts in this sort of deck. They are critical to building up to the 13+ mana needed to "go off," and opening with two of these guys is like playing three lands per turn after that.
6. Decree of Annihilation hoses graveyards, which totally negates the fun of Tariel. Sad face.
7. This deck does what it is supposed to do, but it's terrible at the moment. HALP!
It's going to take a lot of playtesting to get the mana-to-spell ratio correct, but believe me when I say that 50+ mana sources is not too much. Does anyone have any ideas? I'm 100% positive I'm forgetting some auto-includes.
And Reckoning Night is my favorite Sonata Arctica album. Rock on, Tariel.
For ramp that also happens to fix - Prismatic Lens is awesome in multicolored decks.
Identity Crisis doesnt seem like it belongs here.
Tears of joy, I assume!
Identity Crisis is in here 60% because I've always wanted to play it, and 40% because I felt like I needed to "clear the path" for one of the big reset buttons. There's probably a better way to do this... can anyone think of something like City of Solitude on these colors?
I can try Prismatic Lens. I usually shy away from the +1 mana rocks in favor of bigger stuff like Worn Powerstone, but maybe Signets and whatnot could be worth it. This is my least favorite stage of deckbuilding -- I'm overwhelmed with options, and only when I narrow things down or have some sort of breakthrough will things start humming like they're supposed to. That's why I need so much assistance!
The new Grand Abolisher acts like a white City of Solitude, locking people out of messing with your turn. He's fragile, but it serves the purpose. You could also look into Price of Glory and friends; they're really mean to people who try to hog everybody else's turns in addition to their own
I see the Monoliths, but no Mana Vault. That should probably be in as well. Also, you might try Ice Cauldron instead of Ventifact Bottle. Unless I'm horribly mistaken, you can activate the first ability at any time, so you can EOT stick an Obliterate in it, and then untap and nuke the world with mana floating. (Yes, I just suggested Ice Cauldron with a straight face.)
Since most of your removal doesn't nuke enchantments or planeswalkers, maybe add some more of those? Sorin and maybe Elspeth 1.0 might be decent. Enchantments that might deserve a second look:
I actually have a Tariel deck, formerly Oros, that was similar to this at one point; the idea was to run pretty much every mass destruction card in the colors. The fact that the big red stuff like Obliterate doesn't hit enchantments is pretty huge. Debtors' Knell curves right into Obliterate and will just win you the game if it's still out after you wipe the board. War's Toll can act as a makeshift City of Solitude unless your opponents can play a lot of stuff at instant speed. Defense Grid also works. Twilight Shepherd is a nice way to make your mass destruction one-sided, especially since your plan is to float a lot of mana beforehand. Anger is nice too since he can block for you early and will inevitably die. For lands Darksteel Citadel is obvious, you probably have it already. Dakmoor Salvage is okay too.
I agree with Gaka that Identity Crisis doesn't seem like it belongs, I'd replace that with Defense Grid. I'd also replace Hallowed Burial with Catastrophe since it seems like you'd rather have creatures in graveyards, and it doubles as LD.
Private Mod Note
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Decks:
Legacy BGW Rock Depths
EDH B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade R Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker RG Stangg WU Isperia the Inscrutable WUB Dakkon Blackblade WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain RWU Ruhan of the Fomori WUBRG Sliver Overlord
Might I suggest Necrologia for more deep digging, or Ad Nauseam if you play on running 40-50 lands, since if your opponents can't cast spells having a low life total seems like it wouldn't matter much and your wipes seem to be the only thing with high cmc's.
The new Grand Abolisher acts like a white City of Solitude, locking people out of messing with your turn. He's fragile, but it serves the purpose. You could also look into Price of Glory and friends; they're really mean to people who try to hog everybody else's turns in addition to their own
Quote from MRdown2urth »
City of Solitude similar cards? Ugh in your colors. You probably only have it in pieces:
Linvala
Grand Abolisher
Rule of Law?
Price of Glory
Sweet, Grand Abolisher is a great idea! Exactly what I'm looking for. I'll add Silence as well.
Price of Glory isn't quite as good here as I would like. What blue mage wouldn't sac a few lands to stop a Jokulhaups?
Quote from LittlestMorte »
I see the Monoliths, but no Mana Vault. That should probably be in as well. Also, you might try Ice Cauldron instead of Ventifact Bottle. Unless I'm horribly mistaken, you can activate the first ability at any time, so you can EOT stick an Obliterate in it, and then untap and nuke the world with mana floating. (Yes, I just suggested Ice Cauldron with a straight face.)
Catastrophe should be in here somewhere. Possibly Desolation Angel as well.
Since most of your removal doesn't nuke enchantments or planeswalkers, maybe add some more of those? Sorin and maybe Elspeth 1.0 might be decent. Enchantments that might deserve a second look:
Debtor's Knell
Barren Glory
Black Market
Bloodchief Ascension
Land Tax
Last Laugh
Luminarch Ascension
Necropotence
Yawgmoth's Agenda
War's Toll and Tectonic Instability make players tap their lands all at once, which helps against counterspells.
Crucible of Worlds seems like it could be useful, especially if you run a manabase heavy in fetchlands.
Quote from Dolemite »
I actually have a Tariel deck, formerly Oros, that was similar to this at one point; the idea was to run pretty much every mass destruction card in the colors. The fact that the big red stuff like Obliterate doesn't hit enchantments is pretty huge. Debtors' Knell curves right into Obliterate and will just win you the game if it's still out after you wipe the board. War's Toll can act as a makeshift City of Solitude unless your opponents can play a lot of stuff at instant speed. Defense Grid also works. Twilight Shepherd is a nice way to make your mass destruction one-sided, especially since your plan is to float a lot of mana beforehand. Anger is nice too since he can block for you early and will inevitably die. For lands Darksteel Citadel is obvious, you probably have it already. Dakmoor Salvage is okay too.
I agree with Gaka that Identity Crisis doesn't seem like it belongs, I'd replace that with Defense Grid. I'd also replace Hallowed Burial with Catastrophe since it seems like you'd rather have creatures in graveyards, and it doubles as LD.
Arg, how can I forget Mana Vault? That card is awesome. And Ice Cauldron... I honestly don't know how I could say no to that.
Defense Grid is solid gold. I've always wanted to play that card ever since I saw it used in the old school Memory Jar decks.
Debtor's Knell is kind of sweet too, and it's very flavorful.
I'm not just glossing over the other suggestions, but I have to start testing somewhere, and I need a control variable to get anything done.
Quote from u-579 »
Might I suggest Necrologia for more deep digging, or Ad Nauseam if you play on running 40-50 lands, since if your opponents can't cast spells having a low life total seems like it wouldn't matter much and your wipes seem to be the only thing with high cmc's.
I'm actually finding that I deal a LOT of damage to myself over the course of the game, so Ad Nauseam, Necropotence, and Necrologia might be a little too risky. I've managed to recover from time to time by taking opposing Wurmcoil Engines and Serra Ascendants, but I might need to address this problem in the future.
Thanks for all the input, guys! The deck sucks a little less now. More tweaking, and we can get it out of the "griefer" zone and into the "competitive griefer" category.
I guess I just don't see what is causing you to loose life other than your black draw spells
also might I suggest Twilight Shepherd
Ancient Tomb, Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Hall of the Bandit Lord, fetchlands, and shocklands, and Ancient Craving start to sting after a while. Plus, when I actually take this out in public, I'm sure I'll take some early attacks even if people don't realize I'm building up for a mass LD spell. Necropotence and Necrologia are so powerful, though, I might have to warp the deck a bit to include them...
Twilight Shepherd is a definite maybe. Probably yes.
I guess about the only other thing that I can think of to help go accel out is the medallions, I'm not sure which would best fit the deck if any, but its still something to think about.
well that and the P3K geddon if your feeling lucky.
What about: Crucible of Worlds Contagion Engine sweeper/storage land builder upper Yawgmoth's Will if it wasn't in the list already Darksteel Forge/Mycosynth Lattice. Of course Niv's Disc goes with those as another sweeper
And also, there was mention earlier about red not being able to deal with enchantments... That's what white is for...
I run a similar Land destruction focused deck with Tariel. I find the moxen tend to help quite a bit for the early game. I also threw in the artifact lands so I could force mox opal.
I have to agree with the above poster on crucible of worlds, its a huge deal =0.
I run a lot of proliferate, and a lot of planeswalkers, but I think the general theme's behind our decks are similar. Take a look at my list. I run a lot fewer lands than you, but I also run a lot of the 0 costing artifacts (which don't die to my removal package).
Forge and Lattice is pure larks, and worth a try. Very abusive, though.
That's what I'm trying to duplicate with this deck. The entire goal is to amass mana for one giant Obliterate + Tariel, Reckoner of Souls. I have a decent amount of experience with various incarnations of TurboHaups, but never in EDH. I'm sure it will end in disaster.
Things to keep in mind:
1. The overall strategy will be the same every game. I'm relying on Tariel's built-in variance to keep things interesting.
2. Thanks to the abundance of busted black tutor effects, I should be able to find a supernova when I need one. I'll only play the ones that don't make me reveal, because I'm sure that showing everyone that I'm Beseeching for Jokulhaups will get me killed in a hurry.
3. The deck needs to hit every land drop ever, and recover from consistent application of LD. We will probably play 45 to 50 lands, plus mana rocks.
4. Should I play some sort of Bloodghast/Nether Traitor/Krovikan Horror engine? It might give me something to do early game, and it works well with Skullclamp.
5. The storage lands -- even the bad ones from Masques and Fallen Empires -- are nuts in this sort of deck. They are critical to building up to the 13+ mana needed to "go off," and opening with two of these guys is like playing three lands per turn after that.
6. Decree of Annihilation hoses graveyards, which totally negates the fun of Tariel. Sad face.
7. This deck does what it is supposed to do, but it's terrible at the moment. HALP!
1 Tariel, Reckoner of Souls
Creatures (1)
1 Grand Abolisher
Mana Ramp (15)
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Coalition Relic
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Doubling Cube
1 Dreamstone Hedron
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Grim Monolith
1 Ice Cauldron
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Ventifact Bottle
1 Voltaic Key
1 Worn Powerstone
Card Draw and Tutors (13)
1 Ambition's Cost
1 Ancient Craving
1 Night's Whisper
1 Sign in Blood
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Gamble
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Expedition Map
1 Liliana Vess
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Austere Command
1 Damnation
1 Day of Judgement
1 Life's Finale
1 Wrath of God
1 Mind Twist
1 Oblivion Stone
BOOM (15)
1 Armageddon
1 Cataclysm
1 Catastrophe
1 Devastation
1 Jokulhaups
1 Obliterate
1 Razia's Purification
1 Overmaster
1 Silence
1 Otherworldly Journey
1 Debtor's Knell
1 Defense Grid
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
1 Bottomless Vault
1 Dwarven Hold
1 Icatian Store
1 Subterranean Hangar
1 Mercadian Bazaar
1 Fountain of Cho
1 Molten Slagheap
1 Dwarven Ruins
1 Ebon Stronghold
1 Ruins of Trokair
1 Crystal Vein
1 Boros Garrison
1 Orzhov Basillica
1 Rakdos Carnarium
28 Other Lands
It's going to take a lot of playtesting to get the mana-to-spell ratio correct, but believe me when I say that 50+ mana sources is not too much. Does anyone have any ideas? I'm 100% positive I'm forgetting some auto-includes.
And Reckoning Night is my favorite Sonata Arctica album. Rock on, Tariel.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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For ramp that also happens to fix - Prismatic Lens is awesome in multicolored decks.
Identity Crisis doesnt seem like it belongs here.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Tears of joy, I assume!
Identity Crisis is in here 60% because I've always wanted to play it, and 40% because I felt like I needed to "clear the path" for one of the big reset buttons. There's probably a better way to do this... can anyone think of something like City of Solitude on these colors?
I can try Prismatic Lens. I usually shy away from the +1 mana rocks in favor of bigger stuff like Worn Powerstone, but maybe Signets and whatnot could be worth it. This is my least favorite stage of deckbuilding -- I'm overwhelmed with options, and only when I narrow things down or have some sort of breakthrough will things start humming like they're supposed to. That's why I need so much assistance!
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
lichess.org | chess.com
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Catastrophe should be in here somewhere. Possibly Desolation Angel as well.
Since most of your removal doesn't nuke enchantments or planeswalkers, maybe add some more of those? Sorin and maybe Elspeth 1.0 might be decent. Enchantments that might deserve a second look:
War's Toll and Tectonic Instability make players tap their lands all at once, which helps against counterspells.
Crucible of Worlds seems like it could be useful, especially if you run a manabase heavy in fetchlands.
Teneb, the Harvester: Let there be life!
Drafting Aggro in the Cube: A Primer for Beginners
I agree with Gaka that Identity Crisis doesn't seem like it belongs, I'd replace that with Defense Grid. I'd also replace Hallowed Burial with Catastrophe since it seems like you'd rather have creatures in graveyards, and it doubles as LD.
Legacy
BGW Rock Depths
EDH
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
R Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
RG Stangg
WU Isperia the Inscrutable
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls
BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain
RWU Ruhan of the Fomori
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
Sweet, Grand Abolisher is a great idea! Exactly what I'm looking for. I'll add Silence as well.
Price of Glory isn't quite as good here as I would like. What blue mage wouldn't sac a few lands to stop a Jokulhaups?
Arg, how can I forget Mana Vault? That card is awesome. And Ice Cauldron... I honestly don't know how I could say no to that.
Catastrophe seems much better than Hallowed Burial.
Defense Grid is solid gold. I've always wanted to play that card ever since I saw it used in the old school Memory Jar decks.
Debtor's Knell is kind of sweet too, and it's very flavorful.
I'm not just glossing over the other suggestions, but I have to start testing somewhere, and I need a control variable to get anything done.
I'm actually finding that I deal a LOT of damage to myself over the course of the game, so Ad Nauseam, Necropotence, and Necrologia might be a little too risky. I've managed to recover from time to time by taking opposing Wurmcoil Engines and Serra Ascendants, but I might need to address this problem in the future.
To sum up, here are my changes so far:
- Myojin of Night's Reach
- Mind Stone
- Wheel of Fate
- Mortify
- Hallowed Burial
- Identity Crisis
- Nihil Spellbomb
+ Mana Vault
+ Ice Cauldron
+ Catastrophe
+ Grand Abolisher
+ Silence
+ Defense Grid
+ Debtor's Knell
Thanks for all the input, guys! The deck sucks a little less now. More tweaking, and we can get it out of the "griefer" zone and into the "competitive griefer" category.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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also might I suggest Twilight Shepherd
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
Ancient Tomb, Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Hall of the Bandit Lord, fetchlands, and shocklands, and Ancient Craving start to sting after a while. Plus, when I actually take this out in public, I'm sure I'll take some early attacks even if people don't realize I'm building up for a mass LD spell. Necropotence and Necrologia are so powerful, though, I might have to warp the deck a bit to include them...
Twilight Shepherd is a definite maybe. Probably yes.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
lichess.org | chess.com
and how about City of Traitors?
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
Sure, City of Traitors seems good! Thanks!
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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well that and the P3K geddon if your feeling lucky.
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
What about ruination, and that one that hits only one basic type, who's name escapes me, from like saga or some time around that era.
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
Deckbox tradelist/for sale
Draft my cube on cubetutor!
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wildfire
destructive force
burning of xinye
Rout
other interesting cards:
Hallowed ground
khalni gem
safe haven
Deckbox tradelist/for sale
Draft my cube on cubetutor!
Check out my blog on Cube Archetypes!
Crucible of Worlds
Contagion Engine sweeper/storage land builder upper
Yawgmoth's Will if it wasn't in the list already
Darksteel Forge/Mycosynth Lattice. Of course Niv's Disc goes with those as another sweeper
And also, there was mention earlier about red not being able to deal with enchantments... That's what white is for...
I run a similar Land destruction focused deck with Tariel. I find the moxen tend to help quite a bit for the early game. I also threw in the artifact lands so I could force mox opal.
I have to agree with the above poster on crucible of worlds, its a huge deal =0.
I run a lot of proliferate, and a lot of planeswalkers, but I think the general theme's behind our decks are similar. Take a look at my list. I run a lot fewer lands than you, but I also run a lot of the 0 costing artifacts (which don't die to my removal package).
Forge and Lattice is pure larks, and worth a try. Very abusive, though.
Deckbox tradelist/for sale
Draft my cube on cubetutor!
Check out my blog on Cube Archetypes!