And next in our list of primers for mono-colored tribal decks which I have only a little experience playing, it's His Majesty Darien, King of Kjeldor!
As usual, notes.
-I do not have the money to buy this deck, so testing will take place solely online. I could budgetize the list, but that would mean cutting cards like Mana Crypt, which are necessary to the deck's survival. If you don't have the budget for this deck and need to sleeve it up, run something else.
-As with my other decks, I recently built this deck and have begun playtesting it recently.
And now back to your regularly scheduled primer.
'Why would I choose His Majesty Darien as my commander?' you might ask. 'I thought royals and politicians sucked at fighting!' Well, luckily, Magic is set in the age when authority figures actually did stuff. Shocking, I know. You would play Darien if:
-You happen to be a king yourself, and wish to relieve the days when being a king meant something. Oh, and I'm not going to bother kneeling to you because a. you don't have any real power anyway and b. you're on a computer probably more than 10,000 miles away from me here in MURRICA.
-You like to win with honor. Build your army and attack with it, no tricks here. Well, except the dealing yourself damage intentionally, but whatever.
-You like watching your opponents hit each other while you sit behind your general and need to beg to be attacked.
-You like tokens.
-A lot.
On the other hand, you would (be a jerk and) not play Darien if:
-You like making ridiculous plays (oh, this deck can do that, such as plopping down an Eldrazi Monument followed by a Wrath of God with a 20 token board - it just isn't what the deck specializes in).
-You like controlling the board.
-You like combos.
-You have a serious problem with authority figures who do not, in fact, derive their powers via consent of the governed.
How to play Darien:
The main plan is to build a large army of creatures - in particular soldier tokens. We do this in two ways - Darien himself and other token producers such as Raise the Alarm and Elspeth Tirel. Then, we power them up using cards like Field Marshal and Honor of the Pure. Then, we swing at people and win. Typically, this deck wants to play defensively earlier - since Darien makes it tough for opponents to profitably attack you (especially if you make it clear that any tokens produced by them damaging you are coming right back at them), your opponents will start attacking each other. This makes it a lot easier to actually win the game - when you amass an army and start attacking your opponents, they'll be at lower life totals and easier to kill.
There is also some life gain in the deck. This is because since we want to be hurting yourself, we will need to gain back the life we lost or else it won't be hard to kill us, and suddenly attacking us becomes more profitable. In particular, the Soul Warden effect is very effective, because it creates a proto-lock on the board - we gain the damage we're dealt right back (though keep in mind, this doesn't affect general damage, and if someone kills you in one swing, you still lose).
[IMG]http://www.cardkitty.com/cards/darien.png[IMG] Darien, King of Kjeldor
I think that Darien is an extremely underrated general. He is a powerful token producer, and, as I said, makes it tough for opponents to profitably attack you. He has a mana cost that is not too restrictive, and you can easily cast him multiple times in one game. With a 3/3 body, he can occasionally get into the red zone - being pumped by all of your pump spells helps - but don't expect to beat anyone through general damage.
The Legion:
Ballyrush Banneret - making soldiers cost less is always a good thing. Darien is a soldier, so Banneret also makes him cheaper. Benalish Commander - a big body which also can make more soldiers. When you don't have a turn three play, he's a great play to make there, but he's also solid later. Catapult Master - Flexible, repeatable removal is good, and we're not even playing red or black! Best of all, this exiles the card, so indestructible shenanigans don't work, nor do things that like being in the graveyard. Captain of the Watch - one of the most important card in the deck. Apart from making more dudes and pumping your dudes, she allows you to play both offense and defense at the same time, which is huge in this deck. Cloudgoat Ranger - makes three soldiers for one less mana than Captain of the Watch. He's not nearly as good, because he's not a soldier and doesn't pump, but he can get in for evasive damage as well, and hey, three tokens and a 3/3. Daru Warchief - both makes your soldiers cheaper and pumps them up. If you manage to curve Ballyrush into Warchief into Darien you're in very good position. Field Marshal - pumps your dudes, costs 3. First Strike is bigger than you'd think. Hero of Bladehold - makes more dudes, pumps your dudes when attacking. Only strike against her - she's not a soldier herself. Still definitely worth the slot. Intrepid Hero - in EDH, he will not be lost for targets. Repeatable removal to get rid of the biggest threats is great. Knight-Captain of Eos - ridiculously powerful. Sometimes you want to take damage but sometimes you just don't. For those times, there's Knight-Captain. For everything else, there's Mastercard. Loxodon Gatekeeper - slows down everyone else. Be wary, though - a prime hate drawer and steal target. Mentor of the Meek - so you're saying that whenever I spawn a soldier, if I don't have two pump effects out, I get a card for 1, in a deck that loves spawning tokens? So you're saying that this deck can now race pretty much anyone but Azami in card advantage, despite being white? OK. Mirror Entity - if you have a lot of mana, here's something to do with it. Ranger of Eos - in this deck, he gets us Soul Warden/Attendant, Mikaeus, the Lunarch, Weathered Wayfarer, Loyal Sentry, or Signal Pest. Not only that, but he gets us TWO of those and comes with a 3/2 soldiery body to boot. I could see myself growing to love this card.
Recruitment:
Cenn's Enlistment - it isn't efficient, but it is repeatable. Many times. Great for recovering from a sweeper, and turns late game land draws into dudes. Conquering Pledge - makes a lot of tokens, and I mean a lot. Even better for recovering from a sweeper. Decree of Justice - not great early in the game, but in the late game, this card is insane. Once you start getting around 10-15 mana, which regularly happens in EDH, this card flat out wins games. Luminarch Ascension - at first, I thought that this had anti-synergy with Darien. After all, you want the opponent to hit you, right? The more I think about it, though, the more I realize that this card actually has insane synergy with Darien. Now, your opponents have a choice - attack you and give you soldiers, or not attack you and risk letting you go nuclear with angels. I'd advise against dropping it early, though, as you will draw a LOT of hate your way unless Darien is out. Martial Coup - if you don't have a big board presence, and you cast this for 5+, you have instantly turned the game from not in your favor to in your favor. This is a truly great card. Mobilization - gives you stuff to do with your mana. Insane for recovering from a sweeper. Nomad's Assembly - creates a lot of tokens. Notably NOT good for recovering from a sweeper. Raise the Alarm - I'm not the biggest fan of this card, but hey, it's cheap and makes two dudes. Good with Mentor of the Meek - turn three play Mentor, turn four play this and draw 2. Timely Reinforcements - in multiplayer, this card will usually be on early. If you can get both parts, this card is great.
Armory:
Darksteel Plate - Darien/Mentor/Gatekeeper/Catapult Master protection. Lightning Greaves - It's Lightning Greaves. Need I say more? Skullclamp - if your tokens still are just 1/1, it's a '1, sacrifice a crappy token, draw 2 cards' engine. Legitimately insane. Swiftfoot Boots - slightly more expensive, slightly better Lightning Greaves. Umezawa's Jitte - this was the best equipment ever until Batterskull was printed in a world in which Stoneforge Mystic exists. It's still ludicrously powerful.
(Seriously, though, what the hell was Wizards thinking? Don't they have people to test cards before they're printed? They didn't think to pair an expensive equipment with something that brings in equipment on the cheap? Seriously, Wizards, wtf.)
Pump:
Akroma's Memorial - it's easier to ask, what doesn't this give your guys? Caged Sun - Pumps your dudes and gives you mana. Coat of Arms - against other token decks, the globality hurts. Against any other deck, this card reads (if you squint very hard), 5: You win the game. Eldrazi Monument - make all your guys indestructible and give them evasion, at the cost of 1 easily replaced guy per turn. Yes and yes. Honor of the Pure - +1/+1 for all your dudes for 1W. Not bad at all. Leonin Sun Standard - I am loving this card. It doesn't turn off Skullclamp or Mentor, but still gives you a ton of power in the late game as well as stuff to do with extra mana. Great overall card. Marshal's Anthem - some nice recursion, and pumps your dudes. Mikaeus, the Lunarch - Ajani Goldmane's second effect, except that it can be reloaded and it's tutorable by Ranger of Eos. Signal Pest - gives a nice boost on attacks, and tutorable by Ranger of Eos. True Conviction - Doesn't increase p/t, but adds two VERY relevant abilities.
Life Gain/Not Losing:
Auriok Champion - see Attendant, Soul's. Righteous Fury - Not strictly a life gain card, but can function as one. Also, often works as a Day of Judgement with an Eldrazi Monument on the field - i.e. all their stuff dies, all your stuff remains alive. Soul's Attendant - RING RING RING! Do you hear that? It's the synergy bell, and it's ringing! This card has great synergy with Darien, creating a pseudo lock in which you gain back all the life you just lost and put that many soldiers into play. It's only a pseudo lock, though - general damage will still kill you, as will any attack for more than your life total. Now, tutorable with Ranger of Eos! Soul Warden - See Attendant, Soul's. Suture Priest - See Warden, Soul. Now with shutting down infinite creature combos. Worship - a more permanent Angel's Grace. This deck will nearly always have a creature in play. General damage still kills you.
Utility:
Austere Command - use to wipe away anything bothering you. Nice in that it doesn't necessarily kill our stuff. Enlightened Tutor - even if 95% of the time it finds Mana Crypt, it still acts as Mana Crypt #2. Mana Crypt is solid in our deck. Endless Horizons - sure, it can backfire if removed. Still, it guarantees mana drops and thins our deck, both things that are good. Hour of Reckoning - killing everything but our tokens seems like a very good way to win the game immediately. Jade Monolith - incredible in this deck. Provides protection for your creatures and gets you tokens. Not to mention, it can be played diplomatically. Land Tax - the CA generated by this card is simply incredible. Leyline of Sanctity - stops people from doing broken things to you. Mana Vault - in most decks this card is broken. In ours, it is broken beyond belief - even if it's tapped, it gives us a soldier per turn. But it's not nearly as broken as... Mana Crypt - oh Mana Crypt. If only you didn't cost $100+, I would run this deck for realsies. Anyway, in most decks, this card is broken. In ours, it's broken beyond fairness. It gives us 2 mana a turn, and has a 50-50 chance of giving us 3 soldiers. In other words, it has a 50-50 chance of being a Raise the Alarm and a half per turn while GIVING us mana. When you have this card out with Darien, you basically win the game. Oblation - can either be used to shuffle away generals or other threats, or to draw some cards at the cost of a permanent late game. Very versatile card. Path to Exile - creature removal is important. Gets rid of some important stuff, and does it for good. Return to Dust - it kills artifacts and enchantments DEAD. And in multiples. Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant - turns on instantly in EDH. If we can cast this and have Darien and Soul Warden (or one of those effects) out, it will be very tough for an opponent to win. Sol Ring - do you really need a lecture on the awesomeness of Sol Ring? I didn't think so. It can enable turn 2 Darien btw. Yes, you read that right - turn 2. That's insane. Swords to Plowshares - see to Exile, Path. Weathered Wayfarer - Helps ensure that you're not landscrewed, and gets you your utility land like Homeward Path or, of course, Ancient Tomb.
Leaders of the troop:
Ajani Goldmane - basically only used for the -1 ability. But oh, what a -1 ability. Elspeth Tirel - basically, she does everything. She creates tokens, she gains life, she wipes the board of all but tokens and her of course. A few turns with her typically means game. Gideon Jura - can either force everyone to come at him, giving more time, clearing out blockers, and forcing other creatures to come in against a superior defense, or destroy a tapped creature, which is nice. He can also come out to the battlefield - as a soldier no less - but is not strong enough to have a big impact as a basher.
Land:
Ancient Tomb - remember earlier when I talked about how broken Mana Crypt was? Well, this is more broken than Mana Crypt. Contested War Zone - buffs your soldiers, and has some synergy with Darien - if they want it, they have to hit you and give you more soldiers. Eiganjo Castle - can save Darien in a pinch. Otherwise it's just another plains. Emeria, the Sky Ruin - in the late game, provides recursion every turn. This deck likes recursion. Flagstones of Trokair - better than a basic plains. Great with Armageddon/Crucible, but I don't run them - if you do, good for you and I don't want to play with you anymore. Homeward Path - stops pesky blue mages as well as red shenanigans like Confusion in the Ranks or Insurrection. Mutavault - it's a land, that's also a soldier. Perfect! Nomad Assembly - more consistent tokens with mana attached. Also, in a pinch, can gain you some life. Scrying Sheets - allows you to thin your library and get better draws. Snow-Covered Plains - Darien is, after all, from Kjeldor. Also, you can next level all those people who think they're clever running Extraplanar Lens with snow lands. Strip Mine - take care of pesky lands that are annoying you somehow. Tarnished Citadel - insane in this deck, especially because if Darien isn't on the board, you can turn off the damage. Windbrisk Heights - it is not hard to activate it, and when you do, you get a free card.
Cards Considered:
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite - I actually have more than a little Vorthos in me, and while she (it?) is a powerful buff and hurts my opponents, the thought of my glorious army being led into battle by a Phyrexian - in fact, one of the chief Phyrexians - is more than disturbing, it's sick and wrong. Her twisted Phyrexian ideology will never infect MY soldiers, no sir. Elspeth, Knight-Errant - She's great in formats where her first two abilities make a difference. This is not one of those formats. Enlistment Officer, Preeminent Captain, Militia's Pride - I don't run enough soldiers to make these effective. Crovax, Ascendant Hero - I don't know. He just never seems to do much for me when he's out. Shared Triumph - a slightly worse Honor of the Pure which just isn't worth running. Wrath of God - This card is awesome, but we are a creature based deck and in most games it's a dead draw. Darien is good at directing resources away from us anyway. Lich's Tomb - while it does create a proto-lock with Darien, it's flat out awful without him and a dead draw in a ton of games.
Changelog:
8/8/11 - +1 Tarnished Citadel +1 Nomad Stadium +1 Contested War Zone -3 Plains
8/11/11 +1 Mikaeus, the Lunarch +1 Ranger of Eos +1 Signal Pest -1 Angel's Grace -1 Major Teroh -1 Kor Firewalker
10/6/11 +1 Mentor of the Meek +1 Catapult Master +1 Endless Horizons +1 Caged Sun +1 Swiftfoot Boots +1 Darksteel Plate +1 Luminarch Ascension +1 Oblation +1 Hour of Reckoning +1 Scrying Sheets +22 Snow-Covered Plains -1 Crovax, Ascendant Hero -1 Jinxed Idol -1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant -1 Raise the Alarm -1 Shared Triumph -1 Well of Lost Dreams -1 Lich's Tomb -1 Veteran Swordsmith -1 Wrath of God -22 Plains -1 Kabira Crossroads
10/7/11 +1 Raise the Alarm +1 Decree of Justice +1 Cloudgoat Ranger -1 Enlistment Officer -1 Militia's Pride -1 Preeminent Captain
As stated needs tarnished citadel. Other amazing lands for this deck are city of brass, nomad stadium, grand coliseum.
I run a darien deck that just loves militia's pride, it is one of the few ways to generate tokens in the early game before you get darien out.
For lifegain i'd recommend looking at angelic chorus. I'm testing out victorys herald as well.
Slate of ancestry is an absolute must when you are looking at that many tokens.
This many tokens just loves battle cry, so i'd suggest signal pest and contested war zone.
Jinxed idol works pretty well for army building, and operates as a semi wrath protection since you cam just give it to someone else when your guys get swept.
Just fyi but crovax doesn't actually trigger darien, paying life isn't the same as dealing yourself damage.
I don't get this one...Tarnished Citadel is for multi-color decks that have trouble with fixing (which should never happen now that there are so many options available). Are you sure you aren't referring to something else?
@the original post: Cool list. If I wasn't married to my shiny Akroma, I'd probably try to make this myself. Might I suggest Pennon Blade or maybe Strata Scythe as another decent weapon?
EDIT: Did I miss something here? City of Brass in a mono-colored deck?
Whoops, I failed to see the interaction with Darien and these lands. My bad.
As stated needs tarnished citadel. Other amazing lands for this deck are city of brass, nomad stadium, grand coliseum.
I run a darien deck that just loves militia's pride, it is one of the few ways to generate tokens in the early game before you get darien out.
For lifegain i'd recommend looking at angelic chorus. I'm testing out victorys herald as well.
Slate of ancestry is an absolute must when you are looking at that many tokens.
This many tokens just loves battle cry, so i'd suggest signal pest and contested war zone.
Jinxed idol works pretty well for army building, and operates as a semi wrath protection since you cam just give it to someone else when your guys get swept.
Just fyi but crovax doesn't actually trigger darien, paying life isn't the same as dealing yourself damage.
For Militia's Pride, it seems like it ties up my mana in the early game and I'm only attacking with tokens in the late game. I can definitely see the benefit though. It will remain on the ledge until further notice.
Angelic Chorus seems like it would be another Soul Warden, except 1-sided and costing a lot more (except a little more powerful). If we need to add more of this effect I'd just go with Auriok Champion.
Victory's Herald seems interesting, but a bit expensive for what it does. If it was a permanent buff, I would run it for sure, but it only applies when the Herald attacks, so I don't think it's worth it.
Signal Pest is nice but is not a soldier, so I'd rather run more buffs. As for Contested War Zone, it actually has some synergy with Darien - if your opponents attack you to get the War Zone, they'll give you more tokens. I think it would be a good idea to run it, but I wouldn't drop it early - either on the turn we play Darien or one turn after.
Jinxed Idol seems fun, and does give you something to do in response to a sweeper. I'll probably end up testing it.
Yeah, I realize the Crovax thing, I just wrote this up around 5:00 AM this morning and was extremely tired. I was also considering a few Phyrexian Mana cards, but they wouldn't work either.
@the original post: Cool list. If I wasn't married to my shiny Akroma, I'd probably try to make this myself. Might I suggest Pennon Blade or maybe Strata Scythe as another decent weapon?
I'm not a huge fan of these - since the plan is to amass a token army, global buffs might work better. Both of these seem expensive for what they provide.
I feel like there must be a way to abuse Stuffy Doll with this deck...
Hour of Reckoning seems like it should be better than Wrath of God, but normally, when I wrath, it's because some deck has gone infinite (or near infinite) with tokens, I don't have a Soul Warden handy (or they're bigger than 1/1), and he's going to kill everything next turn. Occasionally, guys will have a ton of powerful non-token creatures out, but I think the other scenario is more likely. I'll probably test Hour just to see what happens.
As for Acorn Catapult, I don't like it. It's overcosted, and one of the tokens it gives you isn't even a soldier. It's value is as a pinger, which it doesn't do well. I'd much rather run Jinxed Idol or something like that.
I have not yet found a way to abuse Stuffy Doll, which is sad because I love that card.
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For Militia's Pride, it seems like it ties up my mana in the early game and I'm only attacking with tokens in the late game. I can definitely see the benefit though. It will remain on the ledge until further notice.
My experience running Darien frequently had me with very few things to do on turns 1-4 aside from dropping mana rocks/land tax/etc. Militia's Pride turns your second-turn Ballyrush Banneret into a 5-man army by the time you're dropping Darien. Additionally, it allows you to hold back, which is actually really advantageous for the deck, since there's a strong inclination to overextend with your buff effects. With how the deck runs, dropping more tokens into play is usually one of the best moves you can make. Definitely isn't the best thing in there but I found it to be a lot more useful than Mobilization, certainly better than one-shots like Raise the Alarm.
Angelic Chorus seems like it would be another Soul Warden, except 1-sided and costing a lot more (except a little more powerful). If we need to add more of this effect I'd just go with Auriok Champion.
On my phone I didn't even see that the Champion wasn't in your list. It's pretty dang awesome and I would definitely run it. The advantage to running the Chorus is that your life-gain base gets more diverse, making it so you can get around things like a Steel Golem given to you by the guy running Zedruu.
Victory's Herald seems interesting, but a bit expensive for what it does. If it was a permanent buff, I would run it for sure, but it only applies when the Herald attacks, so I don't think it's worth it.
Yeah, to me the main thing is that he gives evasion. Like I said I'm just testing it out, not sure if it'll stay in or not.
I out-draw literally every other deck in my meta with this one artifact, it's simply absurd with Darien.
Signal Pest is nice but is not a soldier, so I'd rather run more buffs. As for Contested War Zone, it actually has some synergy with Darien - if your opponents attack you to get the War Zone, they'll give you more tokens. I think it would be a good idea to run it, but I wouldn't drop it early - either on the turn we play Darien or one turn after.
The Pest will frequently represent an additional 15-20 points of damage per attack, which raises it into the 'must-play' range imo. I would think of it as a creature-based buff in the same slot as an Honor of the Pure.
The Zone, on the other hand, I've found is best utilized with the assumption that you'll only get to use it once. Obviously this depends on your meta, but in my experience as soon as I drop it I'm getting whacked by flyers, and while I don't mind having more soldiers I'd rather have the attack power. I tend to use it like a mini-coat of arms, dropping it when the increase in damage output will clinch a kill, rather than earlier on.
Jinxed Idol seems fun, and does give you something to do in response to a sweeper. I'll probably end up testing it.
Additional benefit is that everyone will look at you funny when you first play it!
I'm not a huge fan of these - since the plan is to amass a token army, global buffs might work better. Both of these seem expensive for what they provide.
Both of those are too vulnerable - as soon as a sweeper drops the blade is useless, and the scythe costs you a land in a deck that hurts for as much mana accel as possible. One piece of equipment that I found somewhat useful was Veteran's Armaments, since it equips for free. While it's not a huge buff, it is meaningful. I wound up cutting it for more creatures personally.
Hour of Reckoning seems like it should be better than Wrath of God, but normally, when I wrath, it's because some deck has gone infinite (or near infinite) with tokens, I don't have a Soul Warden handy (or they're bigger than 1/1), and he's going to kill everything next turn. Occasionally, guys will have a ton of powerful non-token creatures out, but I think the other scenario is more likely. I'll probably test Hour just to see what happens.
I've been eyeing the Hour myself, but in terms of playing Darien, Wrath effects are for when the guy playing Kahlia has lethal damage on the board. When you have a bunch of tokens out you're almost certainly winning already.
I have not yet found a way to abuse Stuffy Doll, which is sad because I love that card.
Yeah, it's too slow I think. It's most useful as a blocker for voltron generals like Uril, but any competent player will slap evasion or trample on them so it won't matter.
Have you considered Tithe or Endless Horizons? Horizons in particular has been a superstar in my experience, play it turn 4 and exile 5 lands onto it and you're golden. Synergizes with Cenn's Enlistment, too, since you can just discard the lands to retrace.
Militia's Pride is good, especially with Preeminent Captain, but I think the Pride works better with a low curve, wheras Mobilization may be a bit pricey to make topkens, but if your hand is empty, the Pride just sits there whereas Mobiliation really begins to shine.
Also if you have lots of soldiers, Mobilization can be good for the Vigilance alone.
My experience running Darien frequently had me with very few things to do on turns 1-4 aside from dropping mana rocks/land tax/etc. Militia's Pride turns your second-turn Ballyrush Banneret into a 5-man army by the time you're dropping Darien. Additionally, it allows you to hold back, which is actually really advantageous for the deck, since there's a strong inclination to overextend with your buff effects. With how the deck runs, dropping more tokens into play is usually one of the best moves you can make. Definitely isn't the best thing in there but I found it to be a lot more useful than Mobilization, certainly better than one-shots like Raise the Alarm.
That's certainly fair. I haven't played a huge amount of games with this deck yet, so maybe it's just small sample size.
The Pest will frequently represent an additional 15-20 points of damage per attack, which raises it into the 'must-play' range imo. I would think of it as a creature-based buff in the same slot as an Honor of the Pure.
Yeah, it's too slow I think. It's most useful as a blocker for voltron generals like Uril, but any competent player will slap evasion or trample on them so it won't matter.
If they don't have a way of getting past Stuffy Doll, they are pretty much screwed anyway, and we can just chump block with tokens and beat them into the ground.
Have you considered Tithe or Endless Horizons? Horizons in particular has been a superstar in my experience, play it turn 4 and exile 5 lands onto it and you're golden. Synergizes with Cenn's Enlistment, too, since you can just discard the lands to retrace.
Tithe just seems like a worse Land Tax, but I guess it's a solid play with your first mana. As for Endless Horizons, I think there are better things to do with 4 mana, but it is a solid card.
I'm guessing your meta doesn't run a lot of enchantment removal. I wound up having to remove that stuff right quick and switched to creature-based stuff instead, since the buff creatures are almost always smaller threats than Darien himself.
I guess I would only ever play the Staff if I had a way to get rid of it in response to a sweeper (otherwise chances are it would kill me), but with Darien, a sac engine and a soul warden this is a way to create infinite soldiers... high risk, high reward.
Anyway, I'm still in the development process for my Darien deck, but thought I'd throw those suggestions out there.
I guess I would only ever play the Staff if I had a way to get rid of it in response to a sweeper (otherwise chances are it would kill me), but with Darien, a sac engine and a soul warden this is a way to create infinite soldiers... high risk, high reward.
Anyway, I'm still in the development process for my Darien deck, but thought I'd throw those suggestions out there.
I think if we went for a more punishing theme, we would have to add more life gain as well to offset it. I think the problem with this strategy is that it's weak when Darien is not on the field, and it isn't hard for blue opponents to seal Darien away in my library, never to be seen again. Still, it looks like when Darien is on the field, it's a more efficient strategy, and I might test it out, but it definitely requires a different deck style.
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I run a Darien deck myself and have been looking to optimize it to its fullest potential. I definitely have a lot of suggestions for the deck, but seeing as how I'm at work right now I'll save them for when I get back home. Maybe I can post my deck list up if that'd be allright with you.
One thing I did want to discuss though was the new artifact cycle from M12. Crown of Empires, Scepter of Empires[/Cards], and Throne of Empires. What do you guys think of these in Darien? Originally I justified being able to run just the throne because it's essentially functioning like Elspeth 1.0 would in this deck (make a token every turn). As for the other two, I dismissed them at first, but quickly realized that the Scepter can be used with Darien, as well as keep planeswalkers at bay. Then I figured since i'm running the other two, may as well throw crown in, because you can't go wrong with tapping creatures down.
Do you guys feel these 3 cards are strong enough on their own to merit running them? I consider the second clause for each card to be a bonus, but admittedly that's part of the reason why I'm trying to run the cycle. At the same time, I know it's unlikely to get all 3 out, so these cards need to be strong enough on their own. What do you guys think?
One thing I did want to discuss though was the new artifact cycle from M12. Crown of Empires, Scepter of Empires[/Cards], and Throne of Empires. What do you guys think of these in Darien? Originally I justified being able to run just the throne because it's essentially functioning like Elspeth 1.0 would in this deck (make a token every turn). As for the other two, I dismissed them at first, but quickly realized that the Scepter can be used with Darien, as well as keep planeswalkers at bay. Then I figured since i'm running the other two, may as well throw crown in, because you can't go wrong with tapping creatures down.
Do you guys feel these 3 cards are strong enough on their own to merit running them? I consider the second clause for each card to be a bonus, but admittedly that's part of the reason why I'm trying to run the cycle. At the same time, I know it's unlikely to get all 3 out, so these cards need to be strong enough on their own. What do you guys think?
For starters, in EDH, the three will be impossible to get out at the same time, and if you do, someone will remove them. Also, the thing that makes Elspeth so great is that if you can protect her for 4 turns, all your stuff becomes indestructible. The Throne does not have that inevitability. As for the other two, they aren't good enough to play in the deck IMO. If anything, I would only run the Scepter and use it to ping ourselves, but there are much better ways to do that. As for the Crown, it's just a worse Gideon's Lawkeeper that happens to not be a soldier or tutorable by Ranger of Eos. The only reason I would run them is if I thought I could get them active, but I don't think that's possible in EDH.
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Allright, so I've finally gotten around to posting my decklist. I have so much to discuss about Darien, but not enough time so I figured I'll post the decklist for now, then share my opinion on a few cards (both in my deck and not in my deck). When I have more time I'll share my opinion on some other cards as well as various strategies and builds the deck can take.
The deck is orded by card type, followed by ascending cmc. Note that a card marked with "(x)" at the end is a card that I'm considering replacing for something else (most like something similar that can replace the original card's role, but perform it better)
Deck Summary: So the approach I'm basically taking with this deck is, get as many soldiers out as I possibly can, and smash face. I make sure to emphasize on this through as many cards as I can. I have a fair amount of token generation, but where I lack tokens I make up in utility soldier creatures. Gideon's Lawkeeper keeps threats at bay, Mirror Entity provides pump in the late game Commander Eesha stops most creatures dead in their tracks, etc. I ran as much mana accel as possible to get Darien out and start
generating an army through my own means via Mana Crypt, Ancient Tomb, etc. The deck has a fair amount of card draw so I never run dry, or can draw into answers/ways to create an army.
Since the focus of my deck is on multiple creatures, I try to avoid equipment because that only focuses on one creature, and I feel a spell that effects all of my creatures is much better than a spell that just affects a single creature, even if it's a sword or jitte.
Cards that I reccomend that I don't see other Darien players playing:
Gauntlet of Power, Caged Sun: I think this depends on your mana curve and if you have cards to sink mana into, but generally speaking these are good cards. There's a reason why the Gauntlet is $7.The pump bonus is especially nice for a deck that's trying to amass a giant army.
Alliance of Arms: Here's a way to make an army really fast. Granted, your opponents get soldier tokens too, but it's a matter of knowing when to play this card. You have so many more ways to utilize your soldiers against your opponents. I admit, I've only used this in 1 vs 1 so I can't say how it would fare against multiplayer, but just having an army + some form of creature pump would deter opponents from attacking you until your next turn. If you're not running it, definitely consider it.
Kor Skyfisher: I know he's on my doubts list, but he has good synergy with alot of ETB cards, so it's worth considering. I've been thinking of replacing this with Stormfront Riders for continual bounce and the bigger body, but it's very mana intensive, compared to Skyfisher's biggest weakness being more of a timing issue (sometimes there's just nothing good to bounce on the board)
Catapult Squad: Seems pretty good. Note that the creatures don't even have to be attacking you. With just 6 soldiers out you can take down a 6/6 flier! Oh yeah, and against ground units you still have combat damage to add. Oh yeah, and first strike if you've got Field Marshal around.
Adaptive Automaton: This one seems obvious, but it just seems to have slipped most people's mind (myself included). A soldier lord is always welcome in this deck.
Soltari Champion: Another "lord" of sorts, long forgotten in the past. Seems pretty decent in this deck.
Cloudgoat Ranger: This is a card that I think most people would play if they remembered about it. Having said that, play it.
Everflowing Chalice: A solid mana accelerant useful at any point of the game.
Leonin Sun Standard: Remember how good Mirror Entity is? Well, it's not quite as good, but it's absolutely devastating in this deck. It's won games for me
Mindstorm Crown Another card on my X list, but that I'll most likely keep. I like how it can either be a better Phyrexian Arena or nab me a token with Darien. Obvious downside is that sometimes you'll just take a damage. Thoughts?
Endless Horizons: This card provides great card advantage if played right. Sometimes you'll want to play it on hte safe side and grab a few plains. Other times you can play it more gutsy and empty most of
your library of land to smooth out draws depending on the situation and state of the game. Either way, it's a great card that smoothes your draws, ensuring a land drop. It also had great synergy with Abolish
and Cenn's Enlistment.
more to come soon!
Cards that I do not think should be played in the deck/disagree with:
Note: Obviously some cards are better in certain builds then others but these were cards that I've either tried and took out of my deck or are currently in your deck, but don't think they belong there.
Crovax, Ascendant Hero: I think he's overcosted for what he does, and this is coming from firsthand experience. He's not a soldier so he doesn't get any tribal synergy, there are plenty of cheaper soldiers that give the same pump bonus. The -1/-1 againt non-whites is nice, but did not seem worth the cost to me most of the time. There were also many times when I would "save him" by returning him to my hand, but all it really did was set me back with my mana, turns, and card advantage. If you're looking for a similar effect, might I suggest the new white mythic praetor from New Phyrexia? I forget the name, but it costs 1 more mana, has a better body, and gives +2/+2 and -2/-2. This is much more worth the cost in my opinion (and something I've even been considering running in my deck)
Rhox Pikemaster: I feel there are better soldiers that can replace him in this slot. a 3/3 for 4 is nothing to sneeze at, and while giving first strike is nice, it means nothing if they're all 1/1s still. I'd rather have static creature pump in this slot.
Honor of the Pure: This is a staple card for white weenie decks, but if you take a look at my deck, you'll see there are plenty of cards that offer pump in addition to other benefits. This was a card I originally had in my deck, but when I realized I had 16 other spells that beefed up my army + more, this just seemed really underwhelming in comparison.
Signal Pest: This also seems underwhelming. It's not a soldier, and it seems like it dies super easily since you have to attack with it to get the bonus (compared to the soldier lords). I would replace it with Soltari Champion in this slot. It costs a bit more, but you don't have to worry about being blocked and he benefits from other soldier pumps.
Leyline of Sanctity: This depends on your meta I guess, but I can't see much that our opponent would be doing to us (other than discard). If we get burned, so what? We've got Darien!
Cards that have potential, merit discussion:
coming soon, when I get some time, here's a short list for now though
[B]Cards that I reccomend that I don't see other Darien players playing:[/B] Gauntlet of Power, Caged Sun: I think this depends on your mana curve and if you have cards to sink mana into, but generally speaking these are good cards. There's a reason why the Gauntlet is $7.The pump bonus is especially nice for a deck that's trying to amass a giant army.
These are great.
Alliance of Arms: Here's a way to make an army really fast. Granted, your opponents get soldier tokens too, but it's a matter of knowing when to play this card. You have so many more ways to utilize your soldiers against your opponents. I admit, I've only used this in 1 vs 1 so I can't say how it would fare against multiplayer, but just having an army + some form of creature pump would deter opponents from attacking you until your next turn. If you're not running it, definitely consider it.
Haven't had the chance to play this deck since this set came out actually so I haven't tried this. My gut tells me it's not worth it but I want to test it.
Kor Skyfisher: I know he's on my doubts list, but he has good synergy with alot of ETB cards, so it's worth considering. I've been thinking of replacing this with Stormfront Riders for continual bounce and the bigger body, but it's very mana intensive, compared to Skyfisher's biggest weakness being more of a timing issue (sometimes there's just nothing good to bounce on the board)
I've found that his weakness makes him a dead card. Attempting to recur it through things like Eiganjo Free-Riders is just too slow. The thousand-and-one reprints of [c]benalish trapper[/b] are more useful for this and honestly, still not worth it.
Catapult Squad: Seems pretty good. Note that the creatures don't even have to be attacking you. With just 6 soldiers out you can take down a 6/6 flier! Oh yeah, and against ground units you still have combat damage to add. Oh yeah, and first strike if you've got Field Marshal around.
The problem with this guy is he requires you to leave a bunch of soldiers untapped. Not a huge deal if you are making 6+ per turn but if you've only got your mana vault out then that means you aren't attacking with those guys. I'd rather just use condemn, swords to plowshares, oblation.
Adaptive Automaton: This one seems obvious, but it just seems to have slipped most people's mind (myself included). A soldier lord is always welcome in this deck.
I'm not fond of lords, I'd rather just make more guys or get actual abilities out of them.
Cloudgoat Ranger: This is a card that I think most people would play if they remembered about it. Having said that, play it.
Too expensive and again requires you to leave guys untapped.
Everflowing Chalice: A solid mana accelerant useful at any point of the game.
This card belongs in basically every deck that uses colorless mana, imo.
Leonin Sun Standard: Remember how good Mirror Entity is? Well, it's not quite as good, but it's absolutely devastating in this deck. It's won games for me
Never seen this before. Seems great.
Mindstorm Crown Another card on my X list, but that I'll most likely keep. I like how it can either be a better Phyrexian Arena or nab me a token with Darien. Obvious downside is that sometimes you'll just take a damage. Thoughts?
This card is excellent but I just never found room for it. In the end with things like Endless Horizons, Land Tax, Slate of Ancestry I've found that I almost never have an empty hand, which makes this a 'make 1 soldier per turn' artifact for 3, which is just not worth it.
Endless Horizons: This card provides great card advantage if played right. Sometimes you'll want to play it on hte safe side and grab a few plains. Other times you can play it more gutsy and empty most of your library of land to smooth out draws depending on the situation and state of the game. Either way, it's a great card that smoothes your draws, ensuring a land drop. It also had great synergy with Abolish
and Cenn's Enlistment.
This card is incredibly good. Getting consistent land drops is what you really need in mono-white since there's almost no other way to ramp up outside of dropping rocks, and this is the second-best way to do it (after land tax). What I've found is if you put over about 6-7 lands on it, particularly if mistveil plains is one of them, especially if you've already played emeria, the sky ruin, it'll be a target. If, however, you don't have emeria yet and only put 5-6 lands on it, nobody will bother getting rid of it. Obviously, don't drop it when someone has necropotence or bloodchief's ascension out since someone will just drop a tranquility and pick yours up as a bonus, but man this card has won me so many games it's silly.
[B]Cards that I do not think should be played in the deck/disagree with: [/B] Crovax, Ascendant Hero: I think he's overcosted for what he does, and this is coming from firsthand experience. He's not a soldier so he doesn't get any tribal synergy, there are plenty of cheaper soldiers that give the same pump bonus. The -1/-1 againt non-whites is nice, but did not seem worth the cost to me most of the time. There were also many times when I would "save him" by returning him to my hand, but all it really did was set me back with my mana, turns, and card advantage. If you're looking for a similar effect, might I suggest the new white mythic praetor from New Phyrexia? I forget the name, but it costs 1 more mana, has a better body, and gives +2/+2 and -2/-2. This is much more worth the cost in my opinion (and something I've even been considering running in my deck)
Rhox Pikemaster: I feel there are better soldiers that can replace him in this slot. a 3/3 for 4 is nothing to sneeze at, and while giving first strike is nice, it means nothing if they're all 1/1s still. I'd rather have static creature pump in this slot.
Honor of the Pure: This is a staple card for white weenie decks, but if you take a look at my deck, you'll see there are plenty of cards that offer pump in addition to other benefits. This was a card I originally had in my deck, but when I realized I had 16 other spells that beefed up my army + more, this just seemed really underwhelming in comparison.
Signal Pest: This also seems underwhelming. It's not a soldier, and it seems like it dies super easily since you have to attack with it to get the bonus (compared to the soldier lords). I would replace it with Soltari Champion in this slot. It costs a bit more, but you don't have to worry about being blocked and he benefits from other soldier pumps.
The thing here is his benefit is completely out of line with his cost. He costs 1 but has the same effect on your damage output as a gauntlet of power. As for being blocked, just swing at the guy without flyers. Honestly I don't understand why you guys don't seem to like this card, a 1-drop that gives battle-cry is exactly what this deck needs.
Leyline of Sanctity: This depends on your meta I guess, but I can't see much that our opponent would be doing to us (other than discard). If we get burned, so what? We've got Darien![/SPOILER]
Completely agree, the only time I'd say this is useful is if you're playing against like a Nath deck in 1v1.
[B]Cards that have potential, merit discussion:[/B]
1x Stormfront Riders [b]I've found that it's just too pricey and ineffective. It distracts you from the real goal of the deck, which is to spew out soldiers. Not to say it isn't a good card but there just isn't really enough meat to make this applicable here.[/b]
1x Crystal Ball [b]Why not just run sensei's divining top?[/b]
1x Thran Dynamo [b]Yes, the deck needs every rock it can get[/b]
1x Worn powerstone [b]Except maybe this one.... Never liked how it comes in tapped.[/b]
1x Extraplanar Lens [b]This thing is risky but overall probably worth it. In my meta I could never get it to last more than a turn or two.[/b]
1x Ajani goldmane [b]That -1 ability is pretty awesome, in testing I never got it to work very well though, 2WW for +1/+1 to all your creatures isn't worth the slot.[/b]
1x Akroma's Memorial [b]Flying, trample, first strike, etc etc, it doesn't matter because your guys are still 1/1's. And this thing costs a ton. Just run eldrazi monument instead[/b].
1x Patrol Signaler [b]Big fan of this guy. Excellent way to use your extra mana early game[/b]
and probably lots more that I'm forgetting off the top of my head right now.
edit: Here's the decklist I just put together after retuning, not sure where to fit Mikaeus in:
[spoiler]
Right, so to keep this simple I'm just going to quote your response to my card thoughts rather than both our thoughts, otherwise it's going to end up like inception in here.
Kor Skyfisher: I've found that his weakness makes him a dead card. Attempting to recur it through things like Eiganjo Free-Riders is just too slow. The thousand-and-one reprints of [c]benalish trapper[/b] are more useful for this and honestly, still not worth it
I agree, it really just sets me back tempo and mana. I realized though that I could still get the same effect from "blinking" cards from the battlefield with stuff like Otherworldly Journey. gonna try running this see how it goes
Catapult Squad: The problem with this guy is he requires you to leave a bunch of soldiers untapped. Not a huge deal if you are making 6+ per turn but if you've only got your mana vault out then that means you aren't attacking with those guys. I'd rather just use condemn, swords to plowshares, oblation.
I think he's really underestimated, but without any testing it's hard to say. He's repeatable and essentially allows you to control the combat damage step for the entire table.You don't have to hold back from attacking if it's more beneficial, it's just really nice to have the option. Also goes well with vigilance granting cards like Captain of the Watch and Mobilization.
Cloudgoat Ranger: Too expensive and again requires you to leave guysuntapped.
I think you're missing the point here (which is that he produces 3 tokens) For me, this is a good token producers to increase our army, not many other cards match up to it. Compare to Captain of the Watch. It's not as good, but servers a similar function (in populating our army)
Signal Pest: The thing here is his benefit is completely out of line with his cost. He costs but has the same effect on your damage output as a gauntlet of power. As for being blocked, just swing at the guy without flyers. Honestly I don't understand why you guys don't seem to like this card, a -drop that gives battle-cry is exactly what this deck needs.
Oops, didn't realize he couldn't be blocked by most creatures, that does help things a bit. Still, I feel he falls into the same pit as Honor of the Pure, Shared Triumph in that in the long run, it's a little underwhelming. I Just realized it can be fetched with Ranger of Eos though, so maybe it could be considered, but I wouldn't know what to cut for it.
Mikaeus, the Lunarch: Saw this guy and said welp, time to retune Darien! Looks excellent
When I first saw this guy I was really excited. I like how he's tutorable with Ranger of Eos (there goes signal pest's chance...) and he certainly brings some meat to the team, but I can't help but feel he's very similar to Ajani Goldmane, which I wasn't too big a fan of. The big differences seem to be he's tutorable, but pumps up a turn later. I definitely need to consider him, but again, it's a matter of cutting cards. I'm running a fair amount of pump already so I'd have to cut something in the pump slot.
Allright, well you helped give some opinions on my deck, the least I can do is return the favor. I'll touch on cards that I have questions or a contrasting opinion on.
Ankh of Mishra: I'm not fond of cards like these because they are entirely dependent on your general in order to function properly. With Darien out it's pretty good, but when he's not out all it does is hurt everyone (and in a political game, I don't see you making too many friends with this out).
Blasting Station: I'm not sure I'm understanding this correctly. I see that you can do make an infinite cycle of creatures, but you're always going to have to sac the one you make just to get a new one. The only way I could see you benefiting from this is if you had two Soul Warden like effects out on the battlefield. Is there something I'm missing?
City of Brass: Similar to Ankh of Mishra, but in land form so it's at least useful. I would still rather not run it because of all the damage you'll be taking when you don't have Darien out. I would run Grand Coliseum over this if you're really desperate for all the painlands you can get. Even if it ETB tapped, you can still choose when to take the damage, and that's worth the 1 turn cost in my book (assuming you're not playing too many other ETB tapped lands)
Death or Glory: How has this card played out for you? Just curious if it's worth it
Door of Destinies: I may have counted wrong, but you're only playing 15 soldier spells in your deck (including Darien). I feel like most of the time this will be a little underwhelming, how has it been in practice?
Jade Monolith: A very good card with Darien out, but like the others, it doesn't do much for us without him. Even when we do have the combo out I feel like most people would avoid combat until they can get rid of this, but I haven't played with it, so I can't say. How has it worked out for you? (This is a card that's dependant on your opponents. I don't like depending on my opponents)
Militia's Pride: Another one I'm questionable about. Seems like you need a good number of creatures in the deck to be able to benefit from this. The few times I played with it it was a dead card in my hand, and I was running around 20 creatures at the time. Maybe it's been better for you though
Mox Opal: good card, but do you really need to be able to get some random 2 drop out on turn 1? That' assuming you've got 2 other artifacts in your opening hand. I'd rather honestly play some nice early game mana accel like Mind stone.
Nomad Stadium: Same thing as City of brass, but better in this case I guess since you can at least gain some of the life lost from it back later in the game.
Preeminent Captain: Same thing as other creature dependant cards, just not enough creatures in the deck. But it does have potential, so I can't entirely dismiss it. Most of the time however I've found it be just an underwhelming 2/2 first striker for 3 mana.
Well of Lost Dreams: Not sure how many life gain effects your running, but it looks like this could be a dead permanent most of the time in your deck. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love this card and run it myself in a 60 card lifegain deck, but how reliably can you draw cards from this in your deck I wonder?
Ultimately it looks like you're taking a slightly more Darien dependant build, but it also looks like you're providing some protection for him, which is good, so I understand how your deck comes together. I think thebiggest thing the deck could improve upon is removing creature dependent cards like Door of Destiny, Preeminent Captain, and just replacing them with more cards that focus on your goal by either producing tokens with Darien or protecting the king at all costs. I think if your deck is focused on working with Darien, then you should try and put as many cards working towards/supporting that effect as possible.
My deck for example uses Darien more as a supporting role and tries to generate an army on it's own. That's why I use any card that produces tokens, even if it's a little underwhelming, because it focuses on the goal at hand, which is much stronger than just playing a good card that does not interact with the deck in any way in my opinion.
I've made a few small changes to my decklist based on your feedback, I'll get around to posting the updated decklist sometime soon. Even though we've both taken different approaches, I'm hoping that we can both reach a consensus and work together towards an optimal Darien build.
I agree, it really just sets me back tempo and mana. I realized though that I could still get the same effect from "blinking" cards from the battlefield with stuff like Otherworldly Journey. gonna try running this see how it goes
I actually think it would work really well in a khemba, kha regent deck, but that's neither here nor there.
I think he's really underestimated, but without any testing it's hard to say. He's repeatable and essentially allows you to control the combat damage step for the entire table.You don't have to hold back from attacking if it's more beneficial, it's just really nice to have the option. Also goes well with vigilance granting cards like Captain of the Watch and Mobilization.
True. In my experience guys like this get killed really quickly though. But yes it does synergize very well with vigilance.
I think you're missing the point here (which is that he produces 3 tokens) For me, this is a good token producers to increase our army, not many other cards match up to it. Compare to Captain of the Watch. It's not as good, but servers a similar function (in populating our army)
If we're just looking at it as a 'make token' card, I think there's better stuff. Any number of artifacts, for starters.
Oops, didn't realize he couldn't be blocked by most creatures, that does help things a bit. Still, I feel he falls into the same pit as Honor of the Pure, Shared Triumph in that in the long run, it's a little underwhelming. I Just realized it can be fetched with Ranger of Eos though, so maybe it could be considered, but I wouldn't know what to cut for it.
Yeah, being able to tutor this up has won me games.
When I first saw this guy I was really excited. I like how he's tutorable with Ranger of Eos (there goes signal pest's chance...) and he certainly brings some meat to the team, but I can't help but feel he's very similar to Ajani Goldmane, which I wasn't too big a fan of. The big differences seem to be he's tutorable, but pumps up a turn later. I definitely need to consider him, but again, it's a matter of cutting cards. I'm running a fair amount of pump already so I'd have to cut something in the pump slot.
To me he's a major late-game play, drop him for 9W and power up your 20+ soldiers for a kill. Not sure what to cut for him.
Allright, well you helped give some opinions on my deck, the least I can do is return the favor. I'll touch on cards that I have questions or a contrasting opinion on.
Ankh of Mishra: I'm not fond of cards like these because they are entirely dependent on your general in order to function properly. With Darien out it's pretty good, but when he's not out all it does is hurt everyone (and in a political game, I don't see you making too many friends with this out).
Well it turns off a couple of things (Azusa and the like), but mainly it's a way to further maximize the number of tokens we make in a turn. Since you will only ever have Darien out for a few turns at a time anyways (that's been my experience) you want to maximize the soldier output.
Blasting Station: I'm not sure I'm understanding this correctly. I see that you can do make an infinite cycle of creatures, but you're always going to have to sac the one you make just to get a new one. The only way I could see you benefiting from this is if you had two Soul Warden like effects out on the battlefield. Is there something I'm missing?
Gives you targeted creature removal, a way of killing players without attacking them, that sort of thing. It's a way to kill Darien if someone hits him with lignify. I haven't had it in play to actually test it out yet so I don't know if it'll stay or not.
City of Brass: Similar to Ankh of Mishra, but in land form so it's at least useful. I would still rather not run it because of all the damage you'll be taking when you don't have Darien out. I would run Grand Coliseum over this if you're really desperate for all the painlands you can get. Even if it ETB tapped, you can still choose when to take the damage, and that's worth the 1 turn cost in my book (assuming you're not playing too many other ETB tapped lands)
Once again, it's about maximizing how many soldiers you make. If you can make 6+ per turn, power them up with signal pest, soltari champion, hero of bladehold, etc, you'll be knocking players out really quickly. With both the Ankh and this, it's about making sure you have enough life-gain to work with it. For a long time I ran angelic chorus, but switched to true conviction when I added in the battlecry creatures. Between that, the soul sisters, stuff like that, generally you can work it out.
Death or Glory: How has this card played out for you? Just curious if it's worth it
My personal favorite moment was playing this near the end of a 5-man game when it's me vs the guy playing Geth while I have Mirror Entity, Intrepid Hero, and a bunch of other stuff in the graveyard. End result: it's awesome.
Door of Destinies: I may have counted wrong, but you're only playing 15 soldier spells in your deck (including Darien). I feel like most of the time this will be a little underwhelming, how has it been in practice?
I haven't had enough time to test it out. Only had it in play a few times but I have had the thing up to 4 counters, which is just amazing when you're talking about 25 soldier tokens on board.
Jade Monolith: A very good card with Darien out, but like the others, it doesn't do much for us without him. Even when we do have the combo out I feel like most people would avoid combat until they can get rid of this, but I haven't played with it, so I can't say. How has it worked out for you? (This is a card that's dependant on your opponents. I don't like depending on my opponents)
Even without Darien in play this'll keep your soul warden alive, which is really worth it. With Darien in play it's another gustcloak savior.
Testing it out, but yeah. I've decided (after having played this deck for over a year) that I really wanted to focus on busting Darien's ability as much as I can, thus I'm running stuff like this to do things like hit myself for 10 in one turn.
Militia's Pride: Another one I'm questionable about. Seems like you need a good number of creatures in the deck to be able to benefit from this. The few times I played with it it was a dead card in my hand, and I was running around 20 creatures at the time. Maybe it's been better for you though
For some reason I only ever draw this at the beginning of the game, when (obviously) it's awesome. Drop a banneret or soul warden or something, start swinging, and by the time you've got Darien in play you're looking at a sizable army already.
Mox Opal: good card, but do you really need to be able to get some random 2 drop out on turn 1? That' assuming you've got 2 other artifacts in your opening hand. I'd rather honestly play some nice early game mana accel like Mind stone.
It's not about playing a turn-1 2-drop (though that's nice), it's about getting Darien out on turn 4 instead of turn 6. Together with the ability to kill someone else's mox and this has been really valuable to me.
I really like having a cheaper board wipe than the command, because I use this to kill artifact boards.
Nomad Stadium: Same thing as City of brass, but better in this case I guess since you can at least gain some of the life lost from it back later in the game.
I've never used its alternate ability actually. Just piling on soldiers per turn.
Preeminent Captain: Same thing as other creature dependant cards, just not enough creatures in the deck. But it does have potential, so I can't entirely dismiss it. Most of the time however I've found it be just an underwhelming 2/2 first striker for 3 mana.
It's one of those things where most of the time, it's completely medium, and then you get it out on turn 2 and swing in with a captain of the watch.
Well of Lost Dreams: Not sure how many life gain effects your running, but it looks like this could be a dead permanent most of the time in your deck. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love this card and run it myself in a 60 card lifegain deck, but how reliably can you draw cards from this in your deck I wonder?
If you look really closely this turns ancient tomb into a land that says 'T: draw two cards and put two 1/1 white soldier token creatures into play', seriously it's absurd.
Ultimately it looks like you're taking a slightly more Darien dependant build, but it also looks like you're providing some protection for him, which is good, so I understand how your deck comes together. I think thebiggest thing the deck could improve upon is removing creature dependent cards like Door of Destiny, Preeminent Captain, and just replacing them with more cards that focus on your goal by either producing tokens with Darien or protecting the king at all costs. I think if your deck is focused on working with Darien, then you should try and put as many cards working towards/supporting that effect as possible.
Yeah, I suspect I will be cutting both the door and the captain in favor of swiftfoot boots and darksteel plate. (Also I screwed up and put elspeth, knight-errant instead of elspeth tirel, who I think is much better, but I suspect that's because in the last year of play I think I've seen a PW go ultimate, like, twice)
Thanks for your comments btw.
My deck for example uses Darien more as a supporting role and tries to generate an army on it's own. That's why I use any card that produces tokens, even if it's a little underwhelming, because it focuses on the goal at hand, which is much stronger than just playing a good card that does not interact with the deck in any way in my opinion.
I've made a few small changes to my decklist based on your feedback, I'll get around to posting the updated decklist sometime soon. Even though we've both taken different approaches, I'm hoping that we can both reach a consensus and work together towards an optimal Darien build.
My philosophy for this deck is that Darien is just an absolutely staggering token engine, and I'm trying to take it to the max basically.
Wow, lots of posts since I've been gone (I was out of town for the weekend). I'll respond to things I don't agree with - anything I don't respond to, I do agree with (or don't think my thoughts are needed).
Alliance of Arms: Here's a way to make an army really fast. Granted, your opponents get soldier tokens too, but it's a matter of knowing when to play this card. You have so many more ways to utilize your soldiers against your opponents. I admit, I've only used this in 1 vs 1 so I can't say how it would fare against multiplayer, but just having an army + some form of creature pump would deter opponents from attacking you until your next turn. If you're not running it, definitely consider it.
I've never been a fan of group hug cards, and I'm less a fan of cards that allow opponents to make choices. This card does both. While I agree that this can give us a token army very quickly, I really don't think I'd want this in my opening hand. It is worth a shot though - if Darien is out and protected, and you have a Soul Warden out, this is a brilliant card since you're not only giving yourself tokens but giving your opponents tokens to smash each other with.
Kor Skyfisher: I know he's on my doubts list, but he has good synergy with alot of ETB cards, so it's worth considering. I've been thinking of replacing this with Stormfront Riders for continual bounce and the bigger body, but it's very mana intensive, compared to Skyfisher's biggest weakness being more of a timing issue (sometimes there's just nothing good to bounce on the board)
I really don't like this guy, as he costs you a lot of tempo for an underwhelming creature. I would rather play, say, Otherworldly Journey as it doesn't provide a body but doesn't cost tempo.
Catapult Squad: Seems pretty good. Note that the creatures don't even have to be attacking you. With just 6 soldiers out you can take down a 6/6 flier! Oh yeah, and against ground units you still have combat damage to add. Oh yeah, and first strike if you've got Field Marshal around.
I'm not sure about this guy. He's great if you have a vigilance giver out, but in other situations I'd rather be attacking.
Soltari Champion: Another "lord" of sorts, long forgotten in the past. Seems pretty decent in this deck.
My problem is, he seems like he's worse than an Honor of the Pure, and you don't seem to like that. The only advantages he has is a pretty small body and that he leaves Skullclamp on, and I'm not sure that's worth both an extra mana and not a permanent buff.
Crovax, Ascendant Hero: I think he's overcosted for what he does, and this is coming from firsthand experience. He's not a soldier so he doesn't get any tribal synergy, there are plenty of cheaper soldiers that give the same pump bonus. The -1/-1 againt non-whites is nice, but did not seem worth the cost to me most of the time. There were also many times when I would "save him" by returning him to my hand, but all it really did was set me back with my mana, turns, and card advantage. If you're looking for a similar effect, might I suggest the new white mythic praetor from New Phyrexia? I forget the name, but it costs 1 more mana, has a better body, and gives +2/+2 and -2/-2. This is much more worth the cost in my opinion (and something I've even been considering running in my deck)
I actually like this guy. The -1/-1 for non-whites shuts down strategies built around non-white tokens such as Saporlings (one of which is in my primary playgroup). I think the ability to save himself from a sweeper is very solid as well, and can't see how it would cause you to lose CA - if anything, you gain CA from being able to reduce your losses vs a sweeper. As for Elesh Norn, the reason I don't play her is up on the OP, but I'll repeat it here - I don't like her for flavor reasons. The idea of a Phyrexian leading my glorious army into battle is one that I will never accept. I might eventually cave into the fact that she's incredible and include her, but for now, I'm not making that deal with the devil.
Signal Pest: This also seems underwhelming. It's not a soldier, and it seems like it dies super easily since you have to attack with it to get the bonus (compared to the soldier lords). I would replace it with Soltari Champion in this slot. It costs a bit more, but you don't have to worry about being blocked and he benefits from other soldier pumps.
As Lord Yod said, this doesn't actually die easily. Also, since I'm running a Ranger of Eos package, I see no reason not to include it.
When I first saw this guy I was really excited. I like how he's tutorable with Ranger of Eos (there goes signal pest's chance...) and he certainly brings some meat to the team, but I can't help but feel he's very similar to Ajani Goldmane, which I wasn't too big a fan of. The big differences seem to be he's tutorable, but pumps up a turn later. I definitely need to consider him, but again, it's a matter of cutting cards. I'm running a fair amount of pump already so I'd have to cut something in the pump slot.
I think that Ajani Goldmane is a good comp for this guy, so let's look at the advantages of each compared to each other:
Ajani - Can use ability immediately, also gives vigilance, less vulnerable to spot and mass removal
Mikaeus - Tutorable, more flexible mana cost, can't be attacked himself, has a body that can attack
Overall, I think they're both runnable. I've always loved Ajani in this deck, and Mikaeus is a slightly worse Ajani that can be tutored.
Jade Monolith: A very good card with Darien out, but like the others, it doesn't do much for us without him. Even when we do have the combo out I feel like most people would avoid combat until they can get rid of this, but I haven't played with it, so I can't say. How has it worked out for you? (This is a card that's dependant on your opponents. I don't like depending on my opponents)
I think this card is very solid. It can save any creature you need even without Darien in play, and obviously it's nuts with Darien in play.
Nomad Stadium: Same thing as City of brass, but better in this case I guess since you can at least gain some of the life lost from it back later in the game.
I think that painlands are one of the most valuable things to run with Darien, and all we can get should be considered. We need a way to consistently damage ourselves. As you said earlier, you don't like depending on our opponents - well, Darien without damaging ourselves basically depends on our opponents to attack us.
My deck for example uses Darien more as a supporting role and tries to generate an army on it's own. That's why I use any card that produces tokens, even if it's a little underwhelming, because it focuses on the goal at hand, which is much stronger than just playing a good card that does not interact with the deck in any way in my opinion.
The thing about Darien is that he is a token producer, so he takes a lot of the pressure off of your deck to produce tokens. If you have a deck that can produce an army on its own, why would you run Darien and not a general that can do stuff with your tokens? With that type of list, I would rather run a general which does stuff with your army, such as Elesh Norn or Mikaeus (or something with more color).[/QUOTE]
Well it turns off a couple of things (Azusa and the like), but mainly it's a way to further maximize the number of tokens we make in a turn. Since you will only ever have Darien out for a few turns at a time anyways (that's been my experience) you want to maximize the soldier output.
My problem with this is that I don't always have land in my hand to play, so it's not as consistent as, say, Jinxed Idol. I am adding Endless Horizons though, so I think it might be worth it with that.
I haven't had enough time to test it out. Only had it in play a few times but I have had the thing up to 4 counters, which is just amazing when you're talking about 25 soldier tokens on board.
I guess Door can be a mini-Coat of Arms, so IDK, but I've never found it worth it.
It's not about playing a turn-1 2-drop (though that's nice), it's about getting Darien out on turn 4 instead of turn 6. Together with the ability to kill someone else's mox and this has been really valuable to me.
I don't think we run enough artifacts to consistently have this on by turn 4.
If you look really closely this turns ancient tomb into a land that says 'T: draw two cards and put two 1/1 white soldier token creatures into play', seriously it's absurd.
Well, that's only if you have a Soul Warden effect, but with 4 in the deck I think it's a good card. I would like it more if we ran more life gain IMO, as it's often a dead card. It's obviously nuts with a Soul Warden effect out, but apart from that it's pretty dead.
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Thanks to SushiOtter at Hakai Studios for the sig. Check them out!
Hey guys, so I've taken some of your suggestions and updated my deck. I'd love to share it/go into more detail with these new card choices but I don't have time right now. Main reason I'm posting now though is because I stumbled upon a new card I want to get feedback on. What do you guys think of Talon of Pain. It seems to go naturally with the deck as we'll have many sources of damage (each creature in our army can generate a charge counter if they connect). From there, use it as creature removal or generate more tokens with Darien. It's extra good for you guys with Global damage effects like Jinxed/Ankh.
I'll post my decklist up later when I get a chance.
Hm. I was about to say that it doesn't look that great, then I reread the card and saw you can spend however much you want to remove counters. Now I'm rethinking it. My natural inclination with those sorts of things is to hit myself with them to make more tokens, and that kinda seems like a good way to do it. The added versatility of killing someone else's creatures is nice as well. I think I like it.
Could be a replacement for door of destinies in my deck, as my new build uses significantly fewer creatures than my last one. I think I'll try it out. (Won't be able to report back on it for a couple weeks though, about to go on vacation)
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As usual, notes.
-I do not have the money to buy this deck, so testing will take place solely online. I could budgetize the list, but that would mean cutting cards like Mana Crypt, which are necessary to the deck's survival. If you don't have the budget for this deck and need to sleeve it up, run something else.
-As with my other decks, I recently built this deck and have begun playtesting it recently.
And now back to your regularly scheduled primer.
'Why would I choose His Majesty Darien as my commander?' you might ask. 'I thought royals and politicians sucked at fighting!' Well, luckily, Magic is set in the age when authority figures actually did stuff. Shocking, I know. You would play Darien if:
-You happen to be a king yourself, and wish to relieve the days when being a king meant something. Oh, and I'm not going to bother kneeling to you because a. you don't have any real power anyway and b. you're on a computer probably more than 10,000 miles away from me here in MURRICA.
-You like to win with honor. Build your army and attack with it, no tricks here. Well, except the dealing yourself damage intentionally, but whatever.
-You like watching your opponents hit each other while you sit behind your general and need to beg to be attacked.
-You like tokens.
-A lot.
On the other hand, you would (be a jerk and) not play Darien if:
-You like making ridiculous plays (oh, this deck can do that, such as plopping down an Eldrazi Monument followed by a Wrath of God with a 20 token board - it just isn't what the deck specializes in).
-You like controlling the board.
-You like combos.
-You have a serious problem with authority figures who do not, in fact, derive their powers via consent of the governed.
How to play Darien:
The main plan is to build a large army of creatures - in particular soldier tokens. We do this in two ways - Darien himself and other token producers such as Raise the Alarm and Elspeth Tirel. Then, we power them up using cards like Field Marshal and Honor of the Pure. Then, we swing at people and win. Typically, this deck wants to play defensively earlier - since Darien makes it tough for opponents to profitably attack you (especially if you make it clear that any tokens produced by them damaging you are coming right back at them), your opponents will start attacking each other. This makes it a lot easier to actually win the game - when you amass an army and start attacking your opponents, they'll be at lower life totals and easier to kill.
There is also some life gain in the deck. This is because since we want to be hurting yourself, we will need to gain back the life we lost or else it won't be hard to kill us, and suddenly attacking us becomes more profitable. In particular, the Soul Warden effect is very effective, because it creates a proto-lock on the board - we gain the damage we're dealt right back (though keep in mind, this doesn't affect general damage, and if someone kills you in one swing, you still lose).
The Decklist:
1 Darien, King of Kjeldor
The Legion - 14:
1 Ballyrush Banneret
1 Benalish Commander
1 Captain of the Watch
1 Catapult Master
1 Cloudgoat Ranger
1 Daru Warchief
1 Field Marshal
1 Hero of Bladehold
1 Intrepid Hero
1 Knight-Captain of Eos
1 Loxodon Gatekeeper
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Mirror Entity
1 Ranger of Eos
Recruitment - 9:
1 Cenn’s Enlistment
1 Conqueror’s Pledge
1 Decree of Justice
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 Martial Coup
1 Mobilization
1 Nomad’s Assembly
1 Raise the Alarm
1 Timely Reinforcements
Powerful Weapons - 5:
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Skullclamp
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Akroma's Memorial
1 Caged Sun
1 Coat of Arms
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Honor of the Pure
1 Leonin Sun Standard
1 Marshal's Anthem
1 Mikaeus, the Lunarch
1 Signal Pest
1 True Conviction
Life Gain/Not losing - 6:
1 Auriok Champion
1 Righteous Fury
1 Soul’s Attendant
1 Soul Warden
1 Suture Preist
1 Worship
Other – 17:
1 Austere Command
1 Endless Horizons
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Hour of Reckoning
1 Jade Monolith
1 Land Tax
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Oblation
1 Path to Exile
1 Return to Dust
1 Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant
1 Slate of Ancestry
1 Sol Ring
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Ajani Goldmane
1 Elspeth Tirel
1 Gideon Jura
Land – 35:
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Contested War Zone
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Homeward Path
1 Keldjoran Outpost
1 Mutavault
1 Nomad Stadium
1 Scrying Sheets
22 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Strip Mine
1 Tarnished Citadel
1 Windbrisk Heights
Card Choices:
The General:
[IMG]http://www.cardkitty.com/cards/darien.png[IMG]
Darien, King of Kjeldor
I think that Darien is an extremely underrated general. He is a powerful token producer, and, as I said, makes it tough for opponents to profitably attack you. He has a mana cost that is not too restrictive, and you can easily cast him multiple times in one game. With a 3/3 body, he can occasionally get into the red zone - being pumped by all of your pump spells helps - but don't expect to beat anyone through general damage.
The Legion:
Benalish Commander - a big body which also can make more soldiers. When you don't have a turn three play, he's a great play to make there, but he's also solid later.
Catapult Master - Flexible, repeatable removal is good, and we're not even playing red or black! Best of all, this exiles the card, so indestructible shenanigans don't work, nor do things that like being in the graveyard.
Captain of the Watch - one of the most important card in the deck. Apart from making more dudes and pumping your dudes, she allows you to play both offense and defense at the same time, which is huge in this deck.
Cloudgoat Ranger - makes three soldiers for one less mana than Captain of the Watch. He's not nearly as good, because he's not a soldier and doesn't pump, but he can get in for evasive damage as well, and hey, three tokens and a 3/3.
Daru Warchief - both makes your soldiers cheaper and pumps them up. If you manage to curve Ballyrush into Warchief into Darien you're in very good position.
Field Marshal - pumps your dudes, costs 3. First Strike is bigger than you'd think.
Hero of Bladehold - makes more dudes, pumps your dudes when attacking. Only strike against her - she's not a soldier herself. Still definitely worth the slot.
Intrepid Hero - in EDH, he will not be lost for targets. Repeatable removal to get rid of the biggest threats is great.
Knight-Captain of Eos - ridiculously powerful. Sometimes you want to take damage but sometimes you just don't. For those times, there's Knight-Captain. For everything else, there's Mastercard.
Loxodon Gatekeeper - slows down everyone else. Be wary, though - a prime hate drawer and steal target.
Mentor of the Meek - so you're saying that whenever I spawn a soldier, if I don't have two pump effects out, I get a card for 1, in a deck that loves spawning tokens? So you're saying that this deck can now race pretty much anyone but Azami in card advantage, despite being white? OK.
Mirror Entity - if you have a lot of mana, here's something to do with it.
Ranger of Eos - in this deck, he gets us Soul Warden/Attendant, Mikaeus, the Lunarch, Weathered Wayfarer, Loyal Sentry, or Signal Pest. Not only that, but he gets us TWO of those and comes with a 3/2 soldiery body to boot. I could see myself growing to love this card.
Recruitment:
Conquering Pledge - makes a lot of tokens, and I mean a lot. Even better for recovering from a sweeper.
Decree of Justice - not great early in the game, but in the late game, this card is insane. Once you start getting around 10-15 mana, which regularly happens in EDH, this card flat out wins games.
Luminarch Ascension - at first, I thought that this had anti-synergy with Darien. After all, you want the opponent to hit you, right? The more I think about it, though, the more I realize that this card actually has insane synergy with Darien. Now, your opponents have a choice - attack you and give you soldiers, or not attack you and risk letting you go nuclear with angels. I'd advise against dropping it early, though, as you will draw a LOT of hate your way unless Darien is out.
Martial Coup - if you don't have a big board presence, and you cast this for 5+, you have instantly turned the game from not in your favor to in your favor. This is a truly great card.
Mobilization - gives you stuff to do with your mana. Insane for recovering from a sweeper.
Nomad's Assembly - creates a lot of tokens. Notably NOT good for recovering from a sweeper.
Raise the Alarm - I'm not the biggest fan of this card, but hey, it's cheap and makes two dudes. Good with Mentor of the Meek - turn three play Mentor, turn four play this and draw 2.
Timely Reinforcements - in multiplayer, this card will usually be on early. If you can get both parts, this card is great.
Armory:
Lightning Greaves - It's Lightning Greaves. Need I say more?
Skullclamp - if your tokens still are just 1/1, it's a '1, sacrifice a crappy token, draw 2 cards' engine. Legitimately insane.
Swiftfoot Boots - slightly more expensive, slightly better Lightning Greaves.
Umezawa's Jitte - this was the best equipment ever until Batterskull was printed in a world in which Stoneforge Mystic exists. It's still ludicrously powerful.
(Seriously, though, what the hell was Wizards thinking? Don't they have people to test cards before they're printed? They didn't think to pair an expensive equipment with something that brings in equipment on the cheap? Seriously, Wizards, wtf.)
Pump:
Caged Sun - Pumps your dudes and gives you mana.
Coat of Arms - against other token decks, the globality hurts. Against any other deck, this card reads (if you squint very hard), 5: You win the game.
Eldrazi Monument - make all your guys indestructible and give them evasion, at the cost of 1 easily replaced guy per turn. Yes and yes.
Honor of the Pure - +1/+1 for all your dudes for 1W. Not bad at all.
Leonin Sun Standard - I am loving this card. It doesn't turn off Skullclamp or Mentor, but still gives you a ton of power in the late game as well as stuff to do with extra mana. Great overall card.
Marshal's Anthem - some nice recursion, and pumps your dudes.
Mikaeus, the Lunarch - Ajani Goldmane's second effect, except that it can be reloaded and it's tutorable by Ranger of Eos.
Signal Pest - gives a nice boost on attacks, and tutorable by Ranger of Eos.
True Conviction - Doesn't increase p/t, but adds two VERY relevant abilities.
Life Gain/Not Losing:
Righteous Fury - Not strictly a life gain card, but can function as one. Also, often works as a Day of Judgement with an Eldrazi Monument on the field - i.e. all their stuff dies, all your stuff remains alive.
Soul's Attendant - RING RING RING! Do you hear that? It's the synergy bell, and it's ringing! This card has great synergy with Darien, creating a pseudo lock in which you gain back all the life you just lost and put that many soldiers into play. It's only a pseudo lock, though - general damage will still kill you, as will any attack for more than your life total. Now, tutorable with Ranger of Eos!
Soul Warden - See Attendant, Soul's.
Suture Priest - See Warden, Soul. Now with shutting down infinite creature combos.
Worship - a more permanent Angel's Grace. This deck will nearly always have a creature in play. General damage still kills you.
Utility:
Enlightened Tutor - even if 95% of the time it finds Mana Crypt, it still acts as Mana Crypt #2. Mana Crypt is solid in our deck.
Endless Horizons - sure, it can backfire if removed. Still, it guarantees mana drops and thins our deck, both things that are good.
Hour of Reckoning - killing everything but our tokens seems like a very good way to win the game immediately.
Jade Monolith - incredible in this deck. Provides protection for your creatures and gets you tokens. Not to mention, it can be played diplomatically.
Land Tax - the CA generated by this card is simply incredible.
Leyline of Sanctity - stops people from doing broken things to you.
Mana Vault - in most decks this card is broken. In ours, it is broken beyond belief - even if it's tapped, it gives us a soldier per turn. But it's not nearly as broken as...
Mana Crypt - oh Mana Crypt. If only you didn't cost $100+, I would run this deck for realsies. Anyway, in most decks, this card is broken. In ours, it's broken beyond fairness. It gives us 2 mana a turn, and has a 50-50 chance of giving us 3 soldiers. In other words, it has a 50-50 chance of being a Raise the Alarm and a half per turn while GIVING us mana. When you have this card out with Darien, you basically win the game.
Oblation - can either be used to shuffle away generals or other threats, or to draw some cards at the cost of a permanent late game. Very versatile card.
Path to Exile - creature removal is important. Gets rid of some important stuff, and does it for good.
Return to Dust - it kills artifacts and enchantments DEAD. And in multiples.
Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant - turns on instantly in EDH. If we can cast this and have Darien and Soul Warden (or one of those effects) out, it will be very tough for an opponent to win.
Sol Ring - do you really need a lecture on the awesomeness of Sol Ring? I didn't think so. It can enable turn 2 Darien btw. Yes, you read that right - turn 2. That's insane.
Swords to Plowshares - see to Exile, Path.
Weathered Wayfarer - Helps ensure that you're not landscrewed, and gets you your utility land like Homeward Path or, of course, Ancient Tomb.
Leaders of the troop:
Elspeth Tirel - basically, she does everything. She creates tokens, she gains life, she wipes the board of all but tokens and her of course. A few turns with her typically means game.
Gideon Jura - can either force everyone to come at him, giving more time, clearing out blockers, and forcing other creatures to come in against a superior defense, or destroy a tapped creature, which is nice. He can also come out to the battlefield - as a soldier no less - but is not strong enough to have a big impact as a basher.
Land:
Contested War Zone - buffs your soldiers, and has some synergy with Darien - if they want it, they have to hit you and give you more soldiers.
Eiganjo Castle - can save Darien in a pinch. Otherwise it's just another plains.
Emeria, the Sky Ruin - in the late game, provides recursion every turn. This deck likes recursion.
Flagstones of Trokair - better than a basic plains. Great with Armageddon/Crucible, but I don't run them - if you do, good for you and I don't want to play with you anymore.
Homeward Path - stops pesky blue mages as well as red shenanigans like Confusion in the Ranks or Insurrection.
Mutavault - it's a land, that's also a soldier. Perfect!
Nomad Assembly - more consistent tokens with mana attached. Also, in a pinch, can gain you some life.
Scrying Sheets - allows you to thin your library and get better draws.
Snow-Covered Plains - Darien is, after all, from Kjeldor. Also, you can next level all those people who think they're clever running Extraplanar Lens with snow lands.
Strip Mine - take care of pesky lands that are annoying you somehow.
Tarnished Citadel - insane in this deck, especially because if Darien isn't on the board, you can turn off the damage.
Windbrisk Heights - it is not hard to activate it, and when you do, you get a free card.
Cards Considered:
Elspeth, Knight-Errant - She's great in formats where her first two abilities make a difference. This is not one of those formats.
Enlistment Officer, Preeminent Captain, Militia's Pride - I don't run enough soldiers to make these effective.
Crovax, Ascendant Hero - I don't know. He just never seems to do much for me when he's out.
Shared Triumph - a slightly worse Honor of the Pure which just isn't worth running.
Wrath of God - This card is awesome, but we are a creature based deck and in most games it's a dead draw. Darien is good at directing resources away from us anyway.
Lich's Tomb - while it does create a proto-lock with Darien, it's flat out awful without him and a dead draw in a ton of games.
Changelog:
8/11/11 +1 Mikaeus, the Lunarch +1 Ranger of Eos +1 Signal Pest -1 Angel's Grace -1 Major Teroh -1 Kor Firewalker
10/6/11 +1 Mentor of the Meek +1 Catapult Master +1 Endless Horizons +1 Caged Sun +1 Swiftfoot Boots +1 Darksteel Plate +1 Luminarch Ascension +1 Oblation +1 Hour of Reckoning +1 Scrying Sheets +22 Snow-Covered Plains -1 Crovax, Ascendant Hero -1 Jinxed Idol -1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant -1 Raise the Alarm -1 Shared Triumph -1 Well of Lost Dreams -1 Lich's Tomb -1 Veteran Swordsmith -1 Wrath of God -22 Plains -1 Kabira Crossroads
10/7/11 +1 Raise the Alarm +1 Decree of Justice +1 Cloudgoat Ranger -1 Enlistment Officer -1 Militia's Pride -1 Preeminent Captain
Thanks to SushiOtter at Hakai Studios for the sig. Check them out!
Standard:
GGGRDungrove Wolf RunGGGR
Modern:
URExarchMite KikiTwinUR
EDH:
GGGOmnathGGG
WWWDarienWWW
GGGEzuriGGG
Tarnished Citadel is made for this deck btw.
I run a darien deck that just loves militia's pride, it is one of the few ways to generate tokens in the early game before you get darien out.
For lifegain i'd recommend looking at angelic chorus. I'm testing out victorys herald as well.
Slate of ancestry is an absolute must when you are looking at that many tokens.
This many tokens just loves battle cry, so i'd suggest signal pest and contested war zone.
Jinxed idol works pretty well for army building, and operates as a semi wrath protection since you cam just give it to someone else when your guys get swept.
Just fyi but crovax doesn't actually trigger darien, paying life isn't the same as dealing yourself damage.
I don't get this one...Tarnished Citadel is for multi-color decks that have trouble with fixing (which should never happen now that there are so many options available). Are you sure you aren't referring to something else?
@the original post: Cool list. If I wasn't married to my shiny Akroma, I'd probably try to make this myself. Might I suggest Pennon Blade or maybe Strata Scythe as another decent weapon?
EDIT: Did I miss something here? City of Brass in a mono-colored deck?
Whoops, I failed to see the interaction with Darien and these lands. My bad.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Acorn Catapult (each turn, get a 1/1 soldier + a 1/1 squirrel for 1 and 1 life)
I feel like there must be a way to abuse Stuffy Doll with this deck...
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)
For Militia's Pride, it seems like it ties up my mana in the early game and I'm only attacking with tokens in the late game. I can definitely see the benefit though. It will remain on the ledge until further notice.
Angelic Chorus seems like it would be another Soul Warden, except 1-sided and costing a lot more (except a little more powerful). If we need to add more of this effect I'd just go with Auriok Champion.
Victory's Herald seems interesting, but a bit expensive for what it does. If it was a permanent buff, I would run it for sure, but it only applies when the Herald attacks, so I don't think it's worth it.
Slate of Ancestry seems very nice. I'll probably test it out.
Signal Pest is nice but is not a soldier, so I'd rather run more buffs. As for Contested War Zone, it actually has some synergy with Darien - if your opponents attack you to get the War Zone, they'll give you more tokens. I think it would be a good idea to run it, but I wouldn't drop it early - either on the turn we play Darien or one turn after.
Jinxed Idol seems fun, and does give you something to do in response to a sweeper. I'll probably end up testing it.
Yeah, I realize the Crovax thing, I just wrote this up around 5:00 AM this morning and was extremely tired. I was also considering a few Phyrexian Mana cards, but they wouldn't work either.
I'm not a huge fan of these - since the plan is to amass a token army, global buffs might work better. Both of these seem expensive for what they provide.
Hour of Reckoning seems like it should be better than Wrath of God, but normally, when I wrath, it's because some deck has gone infinite (or near infinite) with tokens, I don't have a Soul Warden handy (or they're bigger than 1/1), and he's going to kill everything next turn. Occasionally, guys will have a ton of powerful non-token creatures out, but I think the other scenario is more likely. I'll probably test Hour just to see what happens.
As for Acorn Catapult, I don't like it. It's overcosted, and one of the tokens it gives you isn't even a soldier. It's value is as a pinger, which it doesn't do well. I'd much rather run Jinxed Idol or something like that.
I have not yet found a way to abuse Stuffy Doll, which is sad because I love that card.
Thanks to SushiOtter at Hakai Studios for the sig. Check them out!
Standard:
GGGRDungrove Wolf RunGGGR
Modern:
URExarchMite KikiTwinUR
EDH:
GGGOmnathGGG
WWWDarienWWW
GGGEzuriGGG
My experience running Darien frequently had me with very few things to do on turns 1-4 aside from dropping mana rocks/land tax/etc. Militia's Pride turns your second-turn Ballyrush Banneret into a 5-man army by the time you're dropping Darien. Additionally, it allows you to hold back, which is actually really advantageous for the deck, since there's a strong inclination to overextend with your buff effects. With how the deck runs, dropping more tokens into play is usually one of the best moves you can make. Definitely isn't the best thing in there but I found it to be a lot more useful than Mobilization, certainly better than one-shots like Raise the Alarm.
On my phone I didn't even see that the Champion wasn't in your list. It's pretty dang awesome and I would definitely run it. The advantage to running the Chorus is that your life-gain base gets more diverse, making it so you can get around things like a Steel Golem given to you by the guy running Zedruu.
Yeah, to me the main thing is that he gives evasion. Like I said I'm just testing it out, not sure if it'll stay in or not.
I out-draw literally every other deck in my meta with this one artifact, it's simply absurd with Darien.
The Pest will frequently represent an additional 15-20 points of damage per attack, which raises it into the 'must-play' range imo. I would think of it as a creature-based buff in the same slot as an Honor of the Pure.
The Zone, on the other hand, I've found is best utilized with the assumption that you'll only get to use it once. Obviously this depends on your meta, but in my experience as soon as I drop it I'm getting whacked by flyers, and while I don't mind having more soldiers I'd rather have the attack power. I tend to use it like a mini-coat of arms, dropping it when the increase in damage output will clinch a kill, rather than earlier on.
Additional benefit is that everyone will look at you funny when you first play it!
Both of those are too vulnerable - as soon as a sweeper drops the blade is useless, and the scythe costs you a land in a deck that hurts for as much mana accel as possible. One piece of equipment that I found somewhat useful was Veteran's Armaments, since it equips for free. While it's not a huge buff, it is meaningful. I wound up cutting it for more creatures personally.
I've been eyeing the Hour myself, but in terms of playing Darien, Wrath effects are for when the guy playing Kahlia has lethal damage on the board. When you have a bunch of tokens out you're almost certainly winning already.
Yeah, it's too slow I think. It's most useful as a blocker for voltron generals like Uril, but any competent player will slap evasion or trample on them so it won't matter.
Have you considered Tithe or Endless Horizons? Horizons in particular has been a superstar in my experience, play it turn 4 and exile 5 lands onto it and you're golden. Synergizes with Cenn's Enlistment, too, since you can just discard the lands to retrace.
Militia's Pride is good, especially with Preeminent Captain, but I think the Pride works better with a low curve, wheras Mobilization may be a bit pricey to make topkens, but if your hand is empty, the Pride just sits there whereas Mobiliation really begins to shine.
Also if you have lots of soldiers, Mobilization can be good for the Vigilance alone.
That's certainly fair. I haven't played a huge amount of games with this deck yet, so maybe it's just small sample size.
It seems to me like he's both easier to remove and somewhat worse than Honor of the Pure/CARD]. If we need an additional buff effect, Crusade is better imo even though it's global.
If they don't have a way of getting past Stuffy Doll, they are pretty much screwed anyway, and we can just chump block with tokens and beat them into the ground.
Tithe just seems like a worse Land Tax, but I guess it's a solid play with your first mana. As for Endless Horizons, I think there are better things to do with 4 mana, but it is a solid card.
Has the same problem as Signal Pest - it's worse than Honor of the Pure or Crusade. For 3 mana, it's just not worth it. At least it's a soldier.
Thanks to SushiOtter at Hakai Studios for the sig. Check them out!
Standard:
GGGRDungrove Wolf RunGGGR
Modern:
URExarchMite KikiTwinUR
EDH:
GGGOmnathGGG
WWWDarienWWW
GGGEzuriGGG
Some artifacts I'm considering (because mono white doesn't do punishment that well): Ankh of Mishra, Jinxed Ring, Psychogenic Probe, Dingus Egg (plus land destruction obviously) and (the most risky but potentially most rewarding) Dingus Staff.
I guess I would only ever play the Staff if I had a way to get rid of it in response to a sweeper (otherwise chances are it would kill me), but with Darien, a sac engine and a soul warden this is a way to create infinite soldiers... high risk, high reward.
Anyway, I'm still in the development process for my Darien deck, but thought I'd throw those suggestions out there.
I think if we went for a more punishing theme, we would have to add more life gain as well to offset it. I think the problem with this strategy is that it's weak when Darien is not on the field, and it isn't hard for blue opponents to seal Darien away in my library, never to be seen again. Still, it looks like when Darien is on the field, it's a more efficient strategy, and I might test it out, but it definitely requires a different deck style.
Thanks to SushiOtter at Hakai Studios for the sig. Check them out!
Standard:
GGGRDungrove Wolf RunGGGR
Modern:
URExarchMite KikiTwinUR
EDH:
GGGOmnathGGG
WWWDarienWWW
GGGEzuriGGG
Thanks to SushiOtter at Hakai Studios for the sig. Check them out!
Standard:
GGGRDungrove Wolf RunGGGR
Modern:
URExarchMite KikiTwinUR
EDH:
GGGOmnathGGG
WWWDarienWWW
GGGEzuriGGG
One thing I did want to discuss though was the new artifact cycle from M12. Crown of Empires, Scepter of Empires[/Cards], and Throne of Empires. What do you guys think of these in Darien? Originally I justified being able to run just the throne because it's essentially functioning like Elspeth 1.0 would in this deck (make a token every turn). As for the other two, I dismissed them at first, but quickly realized that the Scepter can be used with Darien, as well as keep planeswalkers at bay. Then I figured since i'm running the other two, may as well throw crown in, because you can't go wrong with tapping creatures down.
Do you guys feel these 3 cards are strong enough on their own to merit running them? I consider the second clause for each card to be a bonus, but admittedly that's part of the reason why I'm trying to run the cycle. At the same time, I know it's unlikely to get all 3 out, so these cards need to be strong enough on their own. What do you guys think?
For starters, in EDH, the three will be impossible to get out at the same time, and if you do, someone will remove them. Also, the thing that makes Elspeth so great is that if you can protect her for 4 turns, all your stuff becomes indestructible. The Throne does not have that inevitability. As for the other two, they aren't good enough to play in the deck IMO. If anything, I would only run the Scepter and use it to ping ourselves, but there are much better ways to do that. As for the Crown, it's just a worse Gideon's Lawkeeper that happens to not be a soldier or tutorable by Ranger of Eos. The only reason I would run them is if I thought I could get them active, but I don't think that's possible in EDH.
Thanks to SushiOtter at Hakai Studios for the sig. Check them out!
Standard:
GGGRDungrove Wolf RunGGGR
Modern:
URExarchMite KikiTwinUR
EDH:
GGGOmnathGGG
WWWDarienWWW
GGGEzuriGGG
The deck is orded by card type, followed by ascending cmc. Note that a card marked with "(x)" at the end is a card that I'm considering replacing for something else (most like something similar that can replace the original card's role, but perform it better)
1x Darien, King of Kjeldor
//Creatures [24]
1x Weathered Wayfayer
1x Soul Warden
1x Gideon's Lawkeeper
1x Kor Skyfisher (x)
1x Ballyrush Banneret
1x Catapult Squad
1x Adaptive Automaton
1x Intrepid Hero
1x Veteran Armorsmith
1x Mirror Entity
1x Soltari Champion
1x Gideon's Avenger (x)
1x Field Marshal
1x Enlistment Officer (x)
1x Ranger of Eos
1x Benalish Commander
1x Hero of Bladehold
1x Daru Warchief
1x Commander Eesha
1x Conclave Phalanx (x)
1x Knight-Captain of Eos
1x Cloudgoat Ranger
1x Catapult Master
1x Captain of the Watch
1x Mana Crypt
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring
1x Skullclamp
1x Leonin Sun Standard
1x Mind Stone (x)
1x Marble Diamond (x)
1x Mindstorm Crown (x)
1x Throne of Empires (x)
1x Bottled Cloister
1x Slate of Ancestry
1x Coat of Arms
1x Eldrazi Monument
1x Gauntlet of Power
1x Caged Sun
//Enchantments [4]
1x Mobilization
1x Endless Horizons
1x Marshall's Anthem
1x True Conviction
//Planeswalkers [3]
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Elspeth Tirel
1x Gideon Jura
1x Alliance of Arms
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Raise the Alarm
1x Harsh Mercy (x)
1x Oblation
1x Abolish (x)
1x Cenn's Enlistment
1x Saltblast
1x Conqueror's Pledge
1x Nomad's Assembly
1x Austere Command
1x Hour of Reckoning (x)
1x Martial Coup
1x Decree of Justice
//Lands [38]
1x Tarnished Citadel
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Temple of the False God
1x Contested Warzone (x)
1x Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1x Forbidding Watchtower (x)
1x Kor Haven
1x Kjeldoran Outpost
30x Plains
Deck Summary: So the approach I'm basically taking with this deck is, get as many soldiers out as I possibly can, and smash face. I make sure to emphasize on this through as many cards as I can. I have a fair amount of token generation, but where I lack tokens I make up in utility soldier creatures. Gideon's Lawkeeper keeps threats at bay, Mirror Entity provides pump in the late game Commander Eesha stops most creatures dead in their tracks, etc. I ran as much mana accel as possible to get Darien out and start
generating an army through my own means via Mana Crypt, Ancient Tomb, etc. The deck has a fair amount of card draw so I never run dry, or can draw into answers/ways to create an army.
Since the focus of my deck is on multiple creatures, I try to avoid equipment because that only focuses on one creature, and I feel a spell that effects all of my creatures is much better than a spell that just affects a single creature, even if it's a sword or jitte.
Cards that I reccomend that I don't see other Darien players playing:
Gauntlet of Power, Caged Sun: I think this depends on your mana curve and if you have cards to sink mana into, but generally speaking these are good cards. There's a reason why the Gauntlet is $7.The pump bonus is especially nice for a deck that's trying to amass a giant army.
Alliance of Arms: Here's a way to make an army really fast. Granted, your opponents get soldier tokens too, but it's a matter of knowing when to play this card. You have so many more ways to utilize your soldiers against your opponents. I admit, I've only used this in 1 vs 1 so I can't say how it would fare against multiplayer, but just having an army + some form of creature pump would deter opponents from attacking you until your next turn. If you're not running it, definitely consider it.
Kor Skyfisher: I know he's on my doubts list, but he has good synergy with alot of ETB cards, so it's worth considering. I've been thinking of replacing this with Stormfront Riders for continual bounce and the bigger body, but it's very mana intensive, compared to Skyfisher's biggest weakness being more of a timing issue (sometimes there's just nothing good to bounce on the board)
Catapult Squad: Seems pretty good. Note that the creatures don't even have to be attacking you. With just 6 soldiers out you can take down a 6/6 flier! Oh yeah, and against ground units you still have combat damage to add. Oh yeah, and first strike if you've got Field Marshal around.
Adaptive Automaton: This one seems obvious, but it just seems to have slipped most people's mind (myself included). A soldier lord is always welcome in this deck.
Soltari Champion: Another "lord" of sorts, long forgotten in the past. Seems pretty decent in this deck.
Cloudgoat Ranger: This is a card that I think most people would play if they remembered about it. Having said that, play it.
Everflowing Chalice: A solid mana accelerant useful at any point of the game.
Leonin Sun Standard: Remember how good Mirror Entity is? Well, it's not quite as good, but it's absolutely devastating in this deck. It's won games for me
Mindstorm Crown Another card on my X list, but that I'll most likely keep. I like how it can either be a better Phyrexian Arena or nab me a token with Darien. Obvious downside is that sometimes you'll just take a damage. Thoughts?
Endless Horizons: This card provides great card advantage if played right. Sometimes you'll want to play it on hte safe side and grab a few plains. Other times you can play it more gutsy and empty most of
your library of land to smooth out draws depending on the situation and state of the game. Either way, it's a great card that smoothes your draws, ensuring a land drop. It also had great synergy with Abolish
and Cenn's Enlistment.
more to come soon!
Cards that I do not think should be played in the deck/disagree with:
Note: Obviously some cards are better in certain builds then others but these were cards that I've either tried and took out of my deck or are currently in your deck, but don't think they belong there.
Crovax, Ascendant Hero: I think he's overcosted for what he does, and this is coming from firsthand experience. He's not a soldier so he doesn't get any tribal synergy, there are plenty of cheaper soldiers that give the same pump bonus. The -1/-1 againt non-whites is nice, but did not seem worth the cost to me most of the time. There were also many times when I would "save him" by returning him to my hand, but all it really did was set me back with my mana, turns, and card advantage. If you're looking for a similar effect, might I suggest the new white mythic praetor from New Phyrexia? I forget the name, but it costs 1 more mana, has a better body, and gives +2/+2 and -2/-2. This is much more worth the cost in my opinion (and something I've even been considering running in my deck)
Rhox Pikemaster: I feel there are better soldiers that can replace him in this slot. a 3/3 for 4 is nothing to sneeze at, and while giving first strike is nice, it means nothing if they're all 1/1s still. I'd rather have static creature pump in this slot.
Honor of the Pure: This is a staple card for white weenie decks, but if you take a look at my deck, you'll see there are plenty of cards that offer pump in addition to other benefits. This was a card I originally had in my deck, but when I realized I had 16 other spells that beefed up my army + more, this just seemed really underwhelming in comparison.
Shared Triumph Same as HotP
Signal Pest: This also seems underwhelming. It's not a soldier, and it seems like it dies super easily since you have to attack with it to get the bonus (compared to the soldier lords). I would replace it with
Soltari Champion in this slot. It costs a bit more, but you don't have to worry about being blocked and he benefits from other soldier pumps.
Leyline of Sanctity: This depends on your meta I guess, but I can't see much that our opponent would be doing to us (other than discard). If we get burned, so what? We've got Darien!
Cards that have potential, merit discussion:
coming soon, when I get some time, here's a short list for now though
and probably lots more that I'm forgetting off the top of my head right now.
These are great.
Haven't had the chance to play this deck since this set came out actually so I haven't tried this. My gut tells me it's not worth it but I want to test it.
I've found that his weakness makes him a dead card. Attempting to recur it through things like Eiganjo Free-Riders is just too slow. The thousand-and-one reprints of [c]benalish trapper[/b] are more useful for this and honestly, still not worth it.
The problem with this guy is he requires you to leave a bunch of soldiers untapped. Not a huge deal if you are making 6+ per turn but if you've only got your mana vault out then that means you aren't attacking with those guys. I'd rather just use condemn, swords to plowshares, oblation.
I'm not fond of lords, I'd rather just make more guys or get actual abilities out of them.
Too expensive and again requires you to leave guys untapped.
This card belongs in basically every deck that uses colorless mana, imo.
Never seen this before. Seems great.
This card is excellent but I just never found room for it. In the end with things like Endless Horizons, Land Tax, Slate of Ancestry I've found that I almost never have an empty hand, which makes this a 'make 1 soldier per turn' artifact for 3, which is just not worth it.
This card is incredibly good. Getting consistent land drops is what you really need in mono-white since there's almost no other way to ramp up outside of dropping rocks, and this is the second-best way to do it (after land tax). What I've found is if you put over about 6-7 lands on it, particularly if mistveil plains is one of them, especially if you've already played emeria, the sky ruin, it'll be a target. If, however, you don't have emeria yet and only put 5-6 lands on it, nobody will bother getting rid of it. Obviously, don't drop it when someone has necropotence or bloodchief's ascension out since someone will just drop a tranquility and pick yours up as a bonus, but man this card has won me so many games it's silly.
Agree. The card you're thinking of is Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobyte and is much better.
Agree with these.
The thing here is his benefit is completely out of line with his cost. He costs 1 but has the same effect on your damage output as a gauntlet of power. As for being blocked, just swing at the guy without flyers. Honestly I don't understand why you guys don't seem to like this card, a 1-drop that gives battle-cry is exactly what this deck needs.
Completely agree, the only time I'd say this is useful is if you're playing against like a Nath deck in 1v1.
edit: Here's the decklist I just put together after retuning, not sure where to fit Mikaeus in:
[spoiler]
1x Ankh of Mishra
1x Aura of Silence
1x Auriok Champion
1x Austere Command
1x Ballyrush Banneret
1x Benalish Commander
1x Blasting Station
1x Caged Sun
1x Captain of the Watch
1x Catapult Master
1x City of Brass
1x Coat of Arms
1x Condemn
1x Contested War Zone
1x Darien, King of Kjeldor
1x Daru Warchief
1x Death or Glory
1x Door of Destinies
1x Eiganjo Castle
1x Eldrazi Monument
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Elspeth Tirel
1x Emeria, The Sky Ruin
1x Endless Horizons
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Flagstones of Trokair
1x Gideon's Avenger
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Grand Coliseum
1x Gustcloak Savior
1x Hero of Bladehold
1x Homeward Path
1x Intrepid Hero
1x Jade Monolith
1x Jinxed Ring
1x Jotun Grunt
1x Knight-Captain of Eos
1x Land Tax
1x Lich's Tomb
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Loxodon Gatekeeper
1x Mana Vault
1x Marshal's Anthem
1x Martial Coup
1x Maze of Ith
1x Militia's Pride
1x Mirror Entity
1x Mistveil Plains
1x Mobilization
1x Mox Opal
1x Nevinyrral's Disk
1x Nomad Stadium
1x Oblation
1x Patrol Signaler
1x Pearl Medallion
21x Plains
1x Preeminent Captain
1x Ranger of Eos
1x Return to Dust
1x Rout
1x Scroll Rack
1x Signal Pest
1x Skullclamp
1x Slate of Ancestry
1x Sol Ring
1x Soltari Champion
1x Soul Warden
1x Soul's Attendant
1x Strip Mine
1x Sun Titan
1x Suture Priest
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Thawing Glaciers
1x Thran Dynamo
1x True Conviction
1x Wasteland
1x Well of Lost Dreams
1x Wrath of God
I agree, it really just sets me back tempo and mana. I realized though that I could still get the same effect from "blinking" cards from the battlefield with stuff like Otherworldly Journey. gonna try running this see how it goes
I think he's really underestimated, but without any testing it's hard to say. He's repeatable and essentially allows you to control the combat damage step for the entire table.You don't have to hold back from attacking if it's more beneficial, it's just really nice to have the option. Also goes well with vigilance granting cards like Captain of the Watch and Mobilization.
I think you're missing the point here (which is that he produces 3 tokens) For me, this is a good token producers to increase our army, not many other cards match up to it. Compare to Captain of the Watch. It's not as good, but servers a similar function (in populating our army)
Oops, didn't realize he couldn't be blocked by most creatures, that does help things a bit. Still, I feel he falls into the same pit as Honor of the Pure, Shared Triumph in that in the long run, it's a little underwhelming. I Just realized it can be fetched with Ranger of Eos though, so maybe it could be considered, but I wouldn't know what to cut for it.
When I first saw this guy I was really excited. I like how he's tutorable with Ranger of Eos (there goes signal pest's chance...) and he certainly brings some meat to the team, but I can't help but feel he's very similar to Ajani Goldmane, which I wasn't too big a fan of. The big differences seem to be he's tutorable, but pumps up a turn later. I definitely need to consider him, but again, it's a matter of cutting cards. I'm running a fair amount of pump already so I'd have to cut something in the pump slot.
Allright, well you helped give some opinions on my deck, the least I can do is return the favor. I'll touch on cards that I have questions or a contrasting opinion on.
Ankh of Mishra: I'm not fond of cards like these because they are entirely dependent on your general in order to function properly. With Darien out it's pretty good, but when he's not out all it does is hurt everyone (and in a political game, I don't see you making too many friends with this out).
Blasting Station: I'm not sure I'm understanding this correctly. I see that you can do make an infinite cycle of creatures, but you're always going to have to sac the one you make just to get a new one. The only way I could see you benefiting from this is if you had two Soul Warden like effects out on the battlefield. Is there something I'm missing?
City of Brass: Similar to Ankh of Mishra, but in land form so it's at least useful. I would still rather not run it because of all the damage you'll be taking when you don't have Darien out. I would run Grand Coliseum over this if you're really desperate for all the painlands you can get. Even if it ETB tapped, you can still choose when to take the damage, and that's worth the 1 turn cost in my book (assuming you're not playing too many other ETB tapped lands)
Death or Glory: How has this card played out for you? Just curious if it's worth it
Door of Destinies: I may have counted wrong, but you're only playing 15 soldier spells in your deck (including Darien). I feel like most of the time this will be a little underwhelming, how has it been in practice?
Jade Monolith: A very good card with Darien out, but like the others, it doesn't do much for us without him. Even when we do have the combo out I feel like most people would avoid combat until they can get rid of this, but I haven't played with it, so I can't say. How has it worked out for you? (This is a card that's dependant on your opponents. I don't like depending on my opponents)
Jinxed Ring: Same thing, useless without Darien.
Militia's Pride: Another one I'm questionable about. Seems like you need a good number of creatures in the deck to be able to benefit from this. The few times I played with it it was a dead card in my hand, and I was running around 20 creatures at the time. Maybe it's been better for you though
Mox Opal: good card, but do you really need to be able to get some random 2 drop out on turn 1? That' assuming you've got 2 other artifacts in your opening hand. I'd rather honestly play some nice early game mana accel like Mind stone.
Nevinyrall's Disk: White is the color of wrath. I think disk is better played in decks whose colors can not take care of wrathing as easily . For white there are so many options. Wrath of God, Austere Command, Akroma's Vengeance, etc.
Nomad Stadium: Same thing as City of brass, but better in this case I guess since you can at least gain some of the life lost from it back later in the game.
Preeminent Captain: Same thing as other creature dependant cards, just not enough creatures in the deck. But it does have potential, so I can't entirely dismiss it. Most of the time however I've found it be just an underwhelming 2/2 first striker for 3 mana.
Well of Lost Dreams: Not sure how many life gain effects your running, but it looks like this could be a dead permanent most of the time in your deck. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love this card and run it myself in a 60 card lifegain deck, but how reliably can you draw cards from this in your deck I wonder?
Ultimately it looks like you're taking a slightly more Darien dependant build, but it also looks like you're providing some protection for him, which is good, so I understand how your deck comes together. I think thebiggest thing the deck could improve upon is removing creature dependent cards like Door of Destiny, Preeminent Captain, and just replacing them with more cards that focus on your goal by either producing tokens with Darien or protecting the king at all costs. I think if your deck is focused on working with Darien, then you should try and put as many cards working towards/supporting that effect as possible.
My deck for example uses Darien more as a supporting role and tries to generate an army on it's own. That's why I use any card that produces tokens, even if it's a little underwhelming, because it focuses on the goal at hand, which is much stronger than just playing a good card that does not interact with the deck in any way in my opinion.
I've made a few small changes to my decklist based on your feedback, I'll get around to posting the updated decklist sometime soon. Even though we've both taken different approaches, I'm hoping that we can both reach a consensus and work together towards an optimal Darien build.
I actually think it would work really well in a khemba, kha regent deck, but that's neither here nor there.
True. In my experience guys like this get killed really quickly though. But yes it does synergize very well with vigilance.
If we're just looking at it as a 'make token' card, I think there's better stuff. Any number of artifacts, for starters.
Yeah, being able to tutor this up has won me games.
To me he's a major late-game play, drop him for 9W and power up your 20+ soldiers for a kill. Not sure what to cut for him.
Well it turns off a couple of things (Azusa and the like), but mainly it's a way to further maximize the number of tokens we make in a turn. Since you will only ever have Darien out for a few turns at a time anyways (that's been my experience) you want to maximize the soldier output.
Gives you targeted creature removal, a way of killing players without attacking them, that sort of thing. It's a way to kill Darien if someone hits him with lignify. I haven't had it in play to actually test it out yet so I don't know if it'll stay or not.
Once again, it's about maximizing how many soldiers you make. If you can make 6+ per turn, power them up with signal pest, soltari champion, hero of bladehold, etc, you'll be knocking players out really quickly. With both the Ankh and this, it's about making sure you have enough life-gain to work with it. For a long time I ran angelic chorus, but switched to true conviction when I added in the battlecry creatures. Between that, the soul sisters, stuff like that, generally you can work it out.
My personal favorite moment was playing this near the end of a 5-man game when it's me vs the guy playing Geth while I have Mirror Entity, Intrepid Hero, and a bunch of other stuff in the graveyard. End result: it's awesome.
I haven't had enough time to test it out. Only had it in play a few times but I have had the thing up to 4 counters, which is just amazing when you're talking about 25 soldier tokens on board.
Even without Darien in play this'll keep your soul warden alive, which is really worth it. With Darien in play it's another gustcloak savior.
Testing it out, but yeah. I've decided (after having played this deck for over a year) that I really wanted to focus on busting Darien's ability as much as I can, thus I'm running stuff like this to do things like hit myself for 10 in one turn.
For some reason I only ever draw this at the beginning of the game, when (obviously) it's awesome. Drop a banneret or soul warden or something, start swinging, and by the time you've got Darien in play you're looking at a sizable army already.
It's not about playing a turn-1 2-drop (though that's nice), it's about getting Darien out on turn 4 instead of turn 6. Together with the ability to kill someone else's mox and this has been really valuable to me.
I really like having a cheaper board wipe than the command, because I use this to kill artifact boards.
I've never used its alternate ability actually. Just piling on soldiers per turn.
It's one of those things where most of the time, it's completely medium, and then you get it out on turn 2 and swing in with a captain of the watch.
If you look really closely this turns ancient tomb into a land that says 'T: draw two cards and put two 1/1 white soldier token creatures into play', seriously it's absurd.
Yeah, I suspect I will be cutting both the door and the captain in favor of swiftfoot boots and darksteel plate. (Also I screwed up and put elspeth, knight-errant instead of elspeth tirel, who I think is much better, but I suspect that's because in the last year of play I think I've seen a PW go ultimate, like, twice)
Thanks for your comments btw.
My philosophy for this deck is that Darien is just an absolutely staggering token engine, and I'm trying to take it to the max basically.
I've never been a fan of group hug cards, and I'm less a fan of cards that allow opponents to make choices. This card does both. While I agree that this can give us a token army very quickly, I really don't think I'd want this in my opening hand. It is worth a shot though - if Darien is out and protected, and you have a Soul Warden out, this is a brilliant card since you're not only giving yourself tokens but giving your opponents tokens to smash each other with.
I really don't like this guy, as he costs you a lot of tempo for an underwhelming creature. I would rather play, say, Otherworldly Journey as it doesn't provide a body but doesn't cost tempo.
I'm not sure about this guy. He's great if you have a vigilance giver out, but in other situations I'd rather be attacking.
My problem is, he seems like he's worse than an Honor of the Pure, and you don't seem to like that. The only advantages he has is a pretty small body and that he leaves Skullclamp on, and I'm not sure that's worth both an extra mana and not a permanent buff.
All he does is make tokens, and there are better cards for that. For 5 mana, I'd much rather play Conqueror's Pledge.
I actually like this guy. The -1/-1 for non-whites shuts down strategies built around non-white tokens such as Saporlings (one of which is in my primary playgroup). I think the ability to save himself from a sweeper is very solid as well, and can't see how it would cause you to lose CA - if anything, you gain CA from being able to reduce your losses vs a sweeper. As for Elesh Norn, the reason I don't play her is up on the OP, but I'll repeat it here - I don't like her for flavor reasons. The idea of a Phyrexian leading my glorious army into battle is one that I will never accept. I might eventually cave into the fact that she's incredible and include her, but for now, I'm not making that deal with the devil.
As Lord Yod said, this doesn't actually die easily. Also, since I'm running a Ranger of Eos package, I see no reason not to include it.
I think that Ajani Goldmane is a good comp for this guy, so let's look at the advantages of each compared to each other:
Ajani - Can use ability immediately, also gives vigilance, less vulnerable to spot and mass removal
Mikaeus - Tutorable, more flexible mana cost, can't be attacked himself, has a body that can attack
Overall, I think they're both runnable. I've always loved Ajani in this deck, and Mikaeus is a slightly worse Ajani that can be tutored.
I think this card is very solid. It can save any creature you need even without Darien in play, and obviously it's nuts with Darien in play.
I think that painlands are one of the most valuable things to run with Darien, and all we can get should be considered. We need a way to consistently damage ourselves. As you said earlier, you don't like depending on our opponents - well, Darien without damaging ourselves basically depends on our opponents to attack us.
The thing about Darien is that he is a token producer, so he takes a lot of the pressure off of your deck to produce tokens. If you have a deck that can produce an army on its own, why would you run Darien and not a general that can do stuff with your tokens? With that type of list, I would rather run a general which does stuff with your army, such as Elesh Norn or Mikaeus (or something with more color).[/QUOTE]
My problem with this is that I don't always have land in my hand to play, so it's not as consistent as, say, Jinxed Idol. I am adding Endless Horizons though, so I think it might be worth it with that.
I guess Door can be a mini-Coat of Arms, so IDK, but I've never found it worth it.
I don't think we run enough artifacts to consistently have this on by turn 4.
Even if we don't use it often, I like having it on there, because we have the option to use it if need be. It's another reason to play the card IMO.
Well, that's only if you have a Soul Warden effect, but with 4 in the deck I think it's a good card. I would like it more if we ran more life gain IMO, as it's often a dead card. It's obviously nuts with a Soul Warden effect out, but apart from that it's pretty dead.
Thanks to SushiOtter at Hakai Studios for the sig. Check them out!
Standard:
GGGRDungrove Wolf RunGGGR
Modern:
URExarchMite KikiTwinUR
EDH:
GGGOmnathGGG
WWWDarienWWW
GGGEzuriGGG
I'll post my decklist up later when I get a chance.
Could be a replacement for door of destinies in my deck, as my new build uses significantly fewer creatures than my last one. I think I'll try it out. (Won't be able to report back on it for a couple weeks though, about to go on vacation)