This deck was based off of one I read about by Kelly Digges in his "Confessions of a Deck-Building Addict" article. I originally started with a jumbled mess of my best red/white/green spells, but that was back when I was still learning the basics of EDH/Commander deck building. Got the cards and put together what I felt was a good updated version of what Kelly did. I havn't play-tested it yet (as of this post), but I'd like some comments and suggestions on how token production could be more effecient and/or more of.
The deck is meant to swarm, and swarm BIG. This is why Rith, the Awakener is my general. Green and White both have some of the best token producing cards, and I just love any combination involving red/white. An earlier version of this deck had red support giving my cards haste, but I took that out. Part of what concerns me about this deck is the lack of red, and a little too much green and white. But at the same time, what red cards I DO have are doozies that I feel help this deck and really work for it. Any red suggestions are very much appreciated.
At first stage I thought I'd go with a pure Saproling army, but there weren't enough cards that made saprolings consistently and were versatile enough for EDH (hence why I went with Selesnya Guildmage over the slightly cheaper Jade Mage). Cards like Elspeth Tireal and Hour of Reckoning are for bombing everything BUT my tokens, but sometimes a true board wipe, such as Akroma's Wrath are needed.
This is also the FIRST deck I've built that has actually mana-alternative lands, like Battlefield Forge and Sunpetal Grove. Rith's Grove is one of those rare cards that color arcs have access too and really helps enable whatever color I need.
I'd love to add Sarkhan Vol, but I'm not sure what to take out for him at the moment.
Comments, suggestions, and critiques much welcomed! Thank you.
P.S. Doubling Season was the only card I was willing to go over $15 for. ^^; I don't think I'll be doing that again anytime soon.
I'd consider trying to emulate my land base a bit more than you have. Sure, you don't need stuff like Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth or Reflecting Pool if you're cutting back on costs, but you need Vivids, Gruul Turf, and something like Exotic Orchard. It's going to at least tap for White in your meta, but will likely tap for all three. Cycle lands and the Refuge are pretty slow, and I run more utility lands in lieu of the Pains, but you can keep those in if you want. I also run the full set of Storage lands, but they haven't been working too well for me lately (although you can pay 3 for one of the colors...). You definitely need Krosan Verge since it's just great advantage too. We can talk about this a bit more later.
I'd really just take a look at the Top 50 list and the Decklist Database to try and find more options or see what other people are running in decks with either the same commander or the same color wedge. I think you're a bit too heavy on the spells which just make tokens; you're going to lose consistancy when you're casting Fists of Ironwood(it won't come down till like turn 5) or Rith's Charm instead of getting closer to your endgame, but that's just my opinion.
I'm sure as you play it more with us you're going to find out what's not working and what could be better. I re-evaulate my deck every couple gaming nights; take a look at what I consider the bottom 5 cards and find what cards could be better in that spot. I'm sure you'll figure out what you need to work on after playing more.
Let me know what else you want me to do on this... we can always work on it later.
Mana Echoes might help with getting some of your bigger stuff out and is an endless combo with Sprout Swarm. Also if you hit with Rith and you have echoes out you can get some insane mana for an instant like comet storm.
I have a similarly-themed deck (swarm big), but I use Hazezon Tamar as the general, and he's been great. I used Rith originally, but I found that he had two problems - since he had to connect to make tokens, I often couldn't make that many. To solve problem one, I put a decent amount more equipment in the deck to help power him through - plate, boots, whispersilk, lox hammer, sword of vengeance. Which led to problem 2 - my opponents were often dead of general damage before tokens were relevant. Hazezon just comes out, and then next turn you get a ton of tokens. Sure they go away if he dies, but I just loaded my deck with good sac outlets so I could sac him before the next upkeep and keep the tokens. Bonus: all those sac outlets made GREAT use of all those tokens I was making!
Cards that I found to be great support:
Coat of Arms. Can't stress it enough. Doesn't matter if you're running multiple kinds of tokens, each set will provide their own boost. Super friends with Mirror Entity.
Triumph of the Hordes. Cheap, but effective. In the interests of fun, clear this with your playgroup first.
Mana Echoes might help with getting some of your bigger stuff out and is an endless combo with Sprout Swarm. Also if you hit with Rith and you have echoes out you can get some insane mana for an instant like comet storm.
And for a little control Glare of Subdual and Aura Shards are great.
You sir, have officially BLOWN MY MIND!!! I was looking at Sprout Swarm but I wasn't sure how practical it would be until you showed up. These are great suggestions, so thanks!
Rith is actually my favorite general, since the deck has a lot of power and pretty good speed.
Also another card to look into might be Pandemonium or the safer more expensive version Warstorm Surge. Adds that much more damage if you hit with Rith or pull off any big token producing spell.
Also like FponkDamn said Skullclamp can be really nasty in a deck like this but if you use if I would recommend finding room for Reliquary Tower in your mana base so you can keep all the cards you end up drawing.
Rith is actually my favorite general, since the deck has a lot of power and pretty good speed.
Also another card to look into might be Pandemonium or the safer more expensive version Warstorm Surge. Adds that much more damage if you hit with Rith or pull off any big token producing spell.
Also like FponkDamn said Skullclamp can be really nasty in a deck like this but if you use if I would recommend finding room for Reliquary Tower in your mana base so you can keep all the cards you end up drawing.
Yup, I definetly need to add a Reliquary Tower. I've had that problem in a game or two so far, and I DO hate discarding due to size. Glad to see that Warstorm Surge is still comparably cheap though. If I have power ups (like Eldrazi Monument) or stuff that gives my tokens counters (like Sigil Captain) will it deal damage equal to the total power, or their original power?
Total power. Note though, that while that's good for Warstorm Surge, it's bad for Sigil Captain. I actually ended up taking him out of my token deck, because almost all the time my tokens were coming out with something like Eldrazi Monument, Mirari's Wake, or Elesh Norn already on the battlefield, so the Captain never triggers. Also, unlike the others, he has to be on the battlefield first, whereas if I already have an army of tokens out and then topdeck Elesh Norn, it's a house.
I have a similarly-themed deck (swarm big), but I use Hazezon Tamar as the general, and he's been great. I used Rith originally, but I found that he had two problems - since he had to connect to make tokens, I often couldn't make that many. To solve problem one, I put a decent amount more equipment in the deck to help power him through - plate, boots, whispersilk, lox hammer, sword of vengeance. Which led to problem 2 - my opponents were often dead of general damage before tokens were relevant. Hazezon just comes out, and then next turn you get a ton of tokens. Sure they go away if he dies, but I just loaded my deck with good sac outlets so I could sac him before the next upkeep and keep the tokens. Bonus: all those sac outlets made GREAT use of all those tokens I was making!
In a one-on-one game, ya, that would be a problem. While connecting to make tokens is a problem, in a multiplayer game if I can connect I can work on using Rith to knock one person out while using the tokens to protect me from the other guys.
Hazezon is a great general, just not the right kind of flavor I'm looking for when I make mine. ^^;
Lands: 38
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Boros Garrison
1 Brushland
1 Command Tower
1 Forbidden Orchard
8 Forest
1 Gruul Turf
1 Jungle Shrine
1 Karplusan Forest
1 Krosan Verge
6 Mountain
1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
6 Plains
1 Rith’s Grove
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Rupture Spire
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree
1 Archangel of Strife
1 Bellowing Tanglewurm
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Dragon Broodmother
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Fertild
1 Forgotten Ancient
1 Juniper Order Ranger
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Mirror Entity
1 Mycoloth
1 Nemata, Grove Guardian
1 Pallid Mycoderm
1 Rhys the Redeemed
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Selesnya Guildmage
1 Sigil Captain
1 Skullmulcher
1 Spike Weaver
1 Thelonite Hermit
1 Ulasht, the Hate Seed
1 Utopia Mycon
1 Verdant Force
1 Verdeloth the Ancient
1 Victory’s Herald
1 Akroma’s Vengeance
1 Austere Command
1 Beastmaster Ascension
1 Boros Signet
1 Condemn
1 Decree of Justice
1 Defense of the Heart
1 Doubling Season
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Elspeth Tirel
1 Faith’s Fetters
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Glory of Warfare
1 Gruul Signet
1 Harmonize
1 Hour of Reckoning
1 Hull Breach
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 Martial Coup
1 Night Soil
1 Nomads’ Assembly
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Planar Cleansing
1 Pollenbright Wings
1 Praetor’s Counsel
1 Privileged Position
1 Return to Dust
1 Rith’s Charm
1 Seed Spark
1 Selesnya Signet
1 Sol Ring
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Titanic Ultimatum
1 True Conviction
This deck was based off of one I read about by Kelly Digges in his "Confessions of a Deck-Building Addict" article. I originally started with a jumbled mess of my best red/white/green spells, but that was back when I was still learning the basics of EDH/Commander deck building. Got the cards and put together what I felt was a good updated version of what Kelly did. I havn't play-tested it yet (as of this post), but I'd like some comments and suggestions on how token production could be more effecient and/or more of.
The deck is meant to swarm, and swarm BIG. This is why Rith, the Awakener is my general. Green and White both have some of the best token producing cards, and I just love any combination involving red/white. An earlier version of this deck had red support giving my cards haste, but I took that out. Part of what concerns me about this deck is the lack of red, and a little too much green and white. But at the same time, what red cards I DO have are doozies that I feel help this deck and really work for it. Any red suggestions are very much appreciated.
At first stage I thought I'd go with a pure Saproling army, but there weren't enough cards that made saprolings consistently and were versatile enough for EDH (hence why I went with Selesnya Guildmage over the slightly cheaper Jade Mage). Cards like Elspeth Tireal and Hour of Reckoning are for bombing everything BUT my tokens, but sometimes a true board wipe, such as Akroma's Wrath are needed.
This is also the FIRST deck I've built that has actually mana-alternative lands, like Battlefield Forge and Sunpetal Grove. Rith's Grove is one of those rare cards that color arcs have access too and really helps enable whatever color I need.
I'd love to add Sarkhan Vol, but I'm not sure what to take out for him at the moment.
Comments, suggestions, and critiques much welcomed! Thank you.
P.S. Doubling Season was the only card I was willing to go over $15 for. ^^; I don't think I'll be doing that again anytime soon.
www.commandercast.com
Commandercast on Tumblr!
My EDH/Commander List:
Wedges:
Numot, the Devastator RWU
Damia, Sage of Stone GUB
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Olivia Voldaren
I'd consider trying to emulate my land base a bit more than you have. Sure, you don't need stuff like Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth or Reflecting Pool if you're cutting back on costs, but you need Vivids, Gruul Turf, and something like Exotic Orchard. It's going to at least tap for White in your meta, but will likely tap for all three. Cycle lands and the Refuge are pretty slow, and I run more utility lands in lieu of the Pains, but you can keep those in if you want. I also run the full set of Storage lands, but they haven't been working too well for me lately (although you can pay 3 for one of the colors...). You definitely need Krosan Verge since it's just great advantage too. We can talk about this a bit more later.
Creature-wise, I don't like the Dousing Shaman, Fertilid, Selesnya Evangel (too slow), and Utopia Mycon. You're going for the Token theme, but you can also consider running other 'goodstuff' that helps you out, like Seedborn Muse, Eternal Witness, Spike Weaver, and maybe even Yavimaya Elder. Regal Force could be a pretty solid later drop after some tokens, too.
Non-creatures, you really need more tutors. Cut the Contagion Clasp and Rites of Flourishing some of the 'weaker' pumps or token makers for tutors like Worldly Tutor, Idyllic Tutor, Sylvan Scrying or recursion cards like Regrowth and Praetor's Counsel. You saw Ronnie use Defense of the Heart, too; grabbing some fatties off of that would be pretty solid. You could also consider Dosan, the Falling Leaf or City of Solitude too, since they're good hosers. Plus, you're missing Boros Signet in your list?
I'd really just take a look at the Top 50 list and the Decklist Database to try and find more options or see what other people are running in decks with either the same commander or the same color wedge. I think you're a bit too heavy on the spells which just make tokens; you're going to lose consistancy when you're casting Fists of Ironwood(it won't come down till like turn 5) or Rith's Charm instead of getting closer to your endgame, but that's just my opinion.
I'm sure as you play it more with us you're going to find out what's not working and what could be better. I re-evaulate my deck every couple gaming nights; take a look at what I consider the bottom 5 cards and find what cards could be better in that spot. I'm sure you'll figure out what you need to work on after playing more.
Let me know what else you want me to do on this... we can always work on it later.
Enjoy your bump.
www.commandercast.com
Commandercast on Tumblr!
My EDH/Commander List:
Wedges:
Numot, the Devastator RWU
Damia, Sage of Stone GUB
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Olivia Voldaren
Shared Animosity can help deal some insane damage with all your tokens.
Perilous Forays can also give you some great ramp and combos nicely with
Rampaging Baloths
And for a little control Glare of Subdual and Aura Shards are great.
RGW Rith, the Awakener
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
UBR Nicol Bolas
GWU Treva, the Renewer
RWU Numot, the Devastator
Cards that I found to be great support:
Coat of Arms. Can't stress it enough. Doesn't matter if you're running multiple kinds of tokens, each set will provide their own boost. Super friends with Mirror Entity.
Triumph of the Hordes. Cheap, but effective. In the interests of fun, clear this with your playgroup first.
Skullclamp. You just... really need this card.
Good luck!
You sir, have officially BLOWN MY MIND!!! I was looking at Sprout Swarm but I wasn't sure how practical it would be until you showed up. These are great suggestions, so thanks!
www.commandercast.com
Commandercast on Tumblr!
My EDH/Commander List:
Wedges:
Numot, the Devastator RWU
Damia, Sage of Stone GUB
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Olivia Voldaren
Also another card to look into might be Pandemonium or the safer more expensive version Warstorm Surge. Adds that much more damage if you hit with Rith or pull off any big token producing spell.
Also like FponkDamn said Skullclamp can be really nasty in a deck like this but if you use if I would recommend finding room for Reliquary Tower in your mana base so you can keep all the cards you end up drawing.
RGW Rith, the Awakener
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
UBR Nicol Bolas
GWU Treva, the Renewer
RWU Numot, the Devastator
Yup, I definetly need to add a Reliquary Tower. I've had that problem in a game or two so far, and I DO hate discarding due to size. Glad to see that Warstorm Surge is still comparably cheap though. If I have power ups (like Eldrazi Monument) or stuff that gives my tokens counters (like Sigil Captain) will it deal damage equal to the total power, or their original power?
www.commandercast.com
Commandercast on Tumblr!
My EDH/Commander List:
Wedges:
Numot, the Devastator RWU
Damia, Sage of Stone GUB
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Olivia Voldaren
In a one-on-one game, ya, that would be a problem. While connecting to make tokens is a problem, in a multiplayer game if I can connect I can work on using Rith to knock one person out while using the tokens to protect me from the other guys.
Hazezon is a great general, just not the right kind of flavor I'm looking for when I make mine. ^^;
www.commandercast.com
Commandercast on Tumblr!
My EDH/Commander List:
Wedges:
Numot, the Devastator RWU
Damia, Sage of Stone GUB
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Olivia Voldaren