This deck is designed to utilize the central themes black, which are killing, discard, and (thanks mainly to the general) graveyard recursion. It has been pretty successful in utilizing these themes and that makes it not a very nice deck to play against. But if you're like me, and you like making people discard their whole hand ("How many cards did you say?" "I said all of them") then it's a lot of fun to play with.
The weaknesses of this deck are the same as with any mono-black deck: it doesn't have an answer to artifacts or enchantments. The Steel Hellkite is basically the only help there. The other area I'm concerned with is striking the balance between instant-speed directed kill and sorcery-speed mass kill. I know this begs the question: do I care more about 1v1 or multiplayer? The answer is multiplayer, which is why I have a heavier emphasis on sorcery-speed kill. Not to mention, mass kill is especially efficient with my deck, as the more loaded the graveyards get the happier I am. But there are still times when I really wish I had a Go for the Throat.
Please hit me with any questions or suggestions - I'm always looking for ways to get a leg up on my playgroup!
Thanks
Gate to Phyrexia and Karn, Liberated are both decent options for black to kill annoying artifacts. And Karn will even get rid of pesky enchantments, too.
Private Mod Note
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"Have you ever tried running with a grape suit on? Then you haven't lived!"
-Squee (my friend's nickname, not the goblin.)
Welcome to Big Black! I would like to share some things I've found after playing the archetype for quite a while.
I started out using Geth, and tried Maga, and ended up with Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief after Homeward Path was printed. Nothing is worse than spending all my resources to animate several opponent fatties just to hand them back for the cost of tapping a land. I'm not trying to talk you out of Geth, just pointing out a major concern that you should prepare for. Another thing to prepare for is that people love to kill Cabal Coffers which is arguably the single best card in the deck. With those two things in mind I have a couple solutions.
With your Coffers and Opposing Homeward Paths in mind: Praetor's Grasp - Has worked well for me. You can use it for an early game Sol Ring, to rip combo pieces, or to rip the dreaded Homeward Path. It also rips black hosers like Iona, Shield of Emeria or pre-emptively removes troublesome artifacts/enchantments. It's very versatile.
Strip Mine and Tectonic Edge - Though I don't like to run any more non-swamps in here than necessary, these two have become very important for taking out opponents Strip Mines, Tectonic Edges, and Homeward Paths, along with the occasional Maze of Ith.
Expedition Map - Tutoring for the right land in this deck is key, and the Map can tutor for any land, not just basics, it's great.
Yawgmoth's Will - Can always be a lategame wincon, is very good recursion on it's own, and also allows you to replay a dead Coffers.
------------
To help with artifact/enchantment removal, I've found Karn Liberated and Spine of Ish Sah (even with its high cost) to be very helpful.
Profane Command, imo, should be in any big mana black deck if not any black deck period. Recursion, Removal, Evasive Alpha Strike, and a Finishing Spell all in one. It's amazing and it's even $cheap now.
Hymn to Tourach is pretty weak in multiplayer. Myojin of Night's Reach will do the job x10, is recurrable, and a beater to boot.
Black Sun's Zenith is also great in here. It gets around indestructibles/regen. I've also used it on occasion to "neuter" an opposing commander. Instead of killing him just to be replayed next turn, you can often lower his power to 1 or 0 and nullify the threat. I'd put it in for Rain of Daggers or Consume the Meek. Consume is often not going to kill what you need it to.
Against popular opinion, and as you've noted "wishing you had a go for the throat at times", I like to keep a lot of instant spot removal in my multiplayer decks over sweepers and things like Visara/Avatar/Royal Ass. There are lots of times that I need to kill something NOW, and I often don't want to destroy my own board in the process. My standards are Rend Flesh and Eyeblight's Ending as they generally kill what you need cheaply. A lot of times artifact creatures are the threat and Go for the Throat won't do it.
Caged Sun is imo, better than Gauntlet or Lens as it doesn't pump your opponents. And even with Snow lands, losing Lens gets you 2for1'd. Not saying don't run them, they're great, just that Caged Sun should definitely be in there.
Hex Parasite can often be better than Hexmage since it can be repeated, and can pump to do some damage in a pinch.
Exsanguinate is a must. You can easily kill a whole table with it.
Dark Rit is extremely small for multiplayer edh.
You might check out the Drana decklist in my sig. It's all about lots of black mana and abusing it (it started out as Geth). There is a Tips/Tricks/Combos section after the decklist that outlines some interesting interactions and combos. It might give you some ideas.
One other quick note.... Helldozer can be a real beast in Big Black. As much mana as you make, he can do massive damage to a manabase in one turn, and anything that helps clear Strip Mines and Homeward Paths is useful.
Adding Karn would be a good idea. I like his added discard ability too.
And Blackjack, thanks for all the good info. I didn't know about Homeward Path, that card is rough on Geth. Expedition Map is a good idea - it's always good to see Coffers. And I've been told I should exchange Hex Parasite for Hexmage, maybe I will. I just like the fact that Hexmage is a bomb that can go off on any planeswalker - whether I have mana or not. And I will be adding Caged Sun and Praetor's Grasp, as soon as I get my hands on them.
I checked out your Drana deck - looks nasty. I know when I have my Drana out with a ton of mana at my disposal, things get ugly. Thanks again for the knowledge
Rain of Daggers seems pretty sub-par. You shouldn't be penalized for wrathing. Get a Black Sun's Zenith in there instead - it's good at getting around indestructibles.
EDIT: Grave Titan and Hymn to Tourach also seem pretty weak. GT is usually a fine card in a vacuum, but you don't really have a way to get any extra mileage out of the tokens, and it doesn't interact with Geth. Hymn is completely unplayable in this format because it only hits one person one time (the same way Duress and Thoughtseize and the like are unplayable). The only time you should even consider Hymn is if you are 1v1, but then you'd have to re-write half your deck anyways.
I definitely should have Black Sun's Zenith in there, I know there is no excuse.
But I do disagree about the Grave Titan. In my experience it is one of my better fatties, a guy that people have to answer and answer quick. And I've found the tokens interact well with several other cards such as Braids, Magus, Barter in Blood, and Diabolic Intent.
And you're right about some of my card choices having better alternatives for multiplayer play. I guess I actually took out Innocent Blood for Geth's Verdict to make it better in 1v1. I'm going to have to decide if I want the deck to be good in multiplayer, good in 1v1, or just alright at both.
Not a problem. Geth is probably the most fun commander in my box. There's really nothing quite like being able to steal someone's entire graveyard, or force them to nuke their own yard so you can't use it.
You raise a valid point about Grave Titan. My thinking was that every card in the list needs to be able to stand up by itself or interact with your commander, because you can't always count on a second card to be readily available when you need it.
For example, I've considered cutting Sword of the Meek from my Sharuum list because it's pretty bad without Thopter Foundry. Conversely, Thopter Foundry is still excellent by itself or with anything else in my deck besides the Sword (protecting my artifacts from exile effects like Into the Core is huge for me, and the life gain and extra tokens aren't bad either).
However, I suppose having extra bodies to sacrifice might not be a bad thing. I would suggest adding Altar of Dementia and Ashnod's Altar to your list. The milling/extra mana are great, but even more important is a free sac outlet to make sure that your Geth targets make it back to the yard safely instead of being exiled or tucked.
Wow Altar of Dementia looks amazing. I saw you have your own Geth decklist up - looks good. Lots of cool interactions and manipulations going on. It does look like it is one of those EDH decks that really relies on the commander, have you had problems winning with Geth tucked? That's one of the things I like the most about my Geth deck is that, compared to my other decks, it is much less reliant on the commander.
P.S. when are you going to post your Akroma decklist? I'm in the works of polishing up my Akroma deck right now
Wow Altar of Dementia looks amazing. I saw you have your own Geth decklist up - looks good. Lots of cool interactions and manipulations going on. It does look like it is one of those EDH decks that really relies on the commander, have you had problems winning with Geth tucked? That's one of the things I like the most about my Geth deck is that, compared to my other decks, it is much less reliant on the commander.
P.S. when are you going to post your Akroma decklist? I'm in the works of polishing up my Akroma deck right now
Yeah, Altar of Dementia is pretty sick with Geth. Definitely want to slam that in there, and give further consideration to anything else with the word "Altar" in the name.
My Akroma list is still under construction. I'm trying to decide what direction I want to take it. I can tell you that my copy of Akroma is a very minty fresh foil one from Legions (my brother kept it on a shelf from the day he opened it in a pack) and that her purple hair matches my sleeves very nicely. Furthermore, all of my basics are the Snow-Covered Plains from Ice Age with the purple sky in the background, so they look pretty sweet together. I'll try to post something about it this weekend.
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
Artifacts
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mana Vault
1 Mind Stone
1 Mindcrank
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Worn Powerstone
Creatures
1 Avatar of Woe
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Grave Titan
1 Magus of the Abyss
1 Massacre Wurm
1 Nirkana Revenant
1 Royal Assassin
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Visara the Dreadful
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Consume the Meek
1 Dark Ritual
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Geth's Verdict
1 Vampiric Tutor
Sorceries
1 Ambition's Cost
1 Ancient Craving
1 Barter in Blood
1 Cabal Conditioning
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Damnation
1 Decree of Pain
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Life's Finale
1 Mind Shatter
1 Mind Sludge
1 Mind Twist
1 Mutilate
1 Persecute
1 Plague Wind
1 Promise of Power
1 Rain of Daggers
1 Reanimate
1 Stitch Together
1 Syphon Mind
1 Wit's End
1 No Mercy
Planeswalkers
1 Liliana Vess
1 Sorin Markov
Lands
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Unholy Grotto
1 Scrying Sheets
33 Snow-Covered Swamp
The weaknesses of this deck are the same as with any mono-black deck: it doesn't have an answer to artifacts or enchantments. The Steel Hellkite is basically the only help there. The other area I'm concerned with is striking the balance between instant-speed directed kill and sorcery-speed mass kill. I know this begs the question: do I care more about 1v1 or multiplayer? The answer is multiplayer, which is why I have a heavier emphasis on sorcery-speed kill. Not to mention, mass kill is especially efficient with my deck, as the more loaded the graveyards get the happier I am. But there are still times when I really wish I had a Go for the Throat.
Thanks
Retired EDH (You're welcome)
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter :symw::symu::symb:
Casual
:symw::symg::symr::symu: Multi-Colored Allies :symw::symg::symr::symu:
:symg::symr: Tap Damage :symg::symr:
-Squee (my friend's nickname, not the goblin.)
Favorite EDH Decks:
RBG Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
W Kemba, Kha Regent
R Kiki-Jiki, Mirror-Breaker
Welcome to Big Black! I would like to share some things I've found after playing the archetype for quite a while.
I started out using Geth, and tried Maga, and ended up with Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief after Homeward Path was printed. Nothing is worse than spending all my resources to animate several opponent fatties just to hand them back for the cost of tapping a land. I'm not trying to talk you out of Geth, just pointing out a major concern that you should prepare for. Another thing to prepare for is that people love to kill Cabal Coffers which is arguably the single best card in the deck. With those two things in mind I have a couple solutions.
With your Coffers and Opposing Homeward Paths in mind:
Praetor's Grasp - Has worked well for me. You can use it for an early game Sol Ring, to rip combo pieces, or to rip the dreaded Homeward Path. It also rips black hosers like Iona, Shield of Emeria or pre-emptively removes troublesome artifacts/enchantments. It's very versatile.
Strip Mine and Tectonic Edge - Though I don't like to run any more non-swamps in here than necessary, these two have become very important for taking out opponents Strip Mines, Tectonic Edges, and Homeward Paths, along with the occasional Maze of Ith.
Expedition Map - Tutoring for the right land in this deck is key, and the Map can tutor for any land, not just basics, it's great.
Petrified Field and Grim Discovery - Both allow you to get Coffers back after it gets killed (and it will).
Yawgmoth's Will - Can always be a lategame wincon, is very good recursion on it's own, and also allows you to replay a dead Coffers.
------------
To help with artifact/enchantment removal, I've found Karn Liberated and Spine of Ish Sah (even with its high cost) to be very helpful.
Profane Command, imo, should be in any big mana black deck if not any black deck period. Recursion, Removal, Evasive Alpha Strike, and a Finishing Spell all in one. It's amazing and it's even $cheap now.
Hymn to Tourach is pretty weak in multiplayer. Myojin of Night's Reach will do the job x10, is recurrable, and a beater to boot.
Black Sun's Zenith is also great in here. It gets around indestructibles/regen. I've also used it on occasion to "neuter" an opposing commander. Instead of killing him just to be replayed next turn, you can often lower his power to 1 or 0 and nullify the threat. I'd put it in for Rain of Daggers or Consume the Meek. Consume is often not going to kill what you need it to.
Against popular opinion, and as you've noted "wishing you had a go for the throat at times", I like to keep a lot of instant spot removal in my multiplayer decks over sweepers and things like Visara/Avatar/Royal Ass. There are lots of times that I need to kill something NOW, and I often don't want to destroy my own board in the process. My standards are Rend Flesh and Eyeblight's Ending as they generally kill what you need cheaply. A lot of times artifact creatures are the threat and Go for the Throat won't do it.
Caged Sun is imo, better than Gauntlet or Lens as it doesn't pump your opponents. And even with Snow lands, losing Lens gets you 2for1'd. Not saying don't run them, they're great, just that Caged Sun should definitely be in there.
Hex Parasite can often be better than Hexmage since it can be repeated, and can pump to do some damage in a pinch.
Exsanguinate is a must. You can easily kill a whole table with it.
Dark Rit is extremely small for multiplayer edh.
You might check out the Drana decklist in my sig. It's all about lots of black mana and abusing it (it started out as Geth). There is a Tips/Tricks/Combos section after the decklist that outlines some interesting interactions and combos. It might give you some ideas.
One other quick note.... Helldozer can be a real beast in Big Black. As much mana as you make, he can do massive damage to a manabase in one turn, and anything that helps clear Strip Mines and Homeward Paths is useful.
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
And Blackjack, thanks for all the good info. I didn't know about Homeward Path, that card is rough on Geth. Expedition Map is a good idea - it's always good to see Coffers. And I've been told I should exchange Hex Parasite for Hexmage, maybe I will. I just like the fact that Hexmage is a bomb that can go off on any planeswalker - whether I have mana or not. And I will be adding Caged Sun and Praetor's Grasp, as soon as I get my hands on them.
I checked out your Drana deck - looks nasty. I know when I have my Drana out with a ton of mana at my disposal, things get ugly. Thanks again for the knowledge
Retired EDH (You're welcome)
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter :symw::symu::symb:
Casual
:symw::symg::symr::symu: Multi-Colored Allies :symw::symg::symr::symu:
:symg::symr: Tap Damage :symg::symr:
EDIT: Grave Titan and Hymn to Tourach also seem pretty weak. GT is usually a fine card in a vacuum, but you don't really have a way to get any extra mileage out of the tokens, and it doesn't interact with Geth. Hymn is completely unplayable in this format because it only hits one person one time (the same way Duress and Thoughtseize and the like are unplayable). The only time you should even consider Hymn is if you are 1v1, but then you'd have to re-write half your deck anyways.
EDIT AGAIN: Diabolic Edict and Geth's Verdict are also 1v1 cards only. If you want to play multiplayer, play Innocent Blood and Grave Pact instead.
But I do disagree about the Grave Titan. In my experience it is one of my better fatties, a guy that people have to answer and answer quick. And I've found the tokens interact well with several other cards such as Braids, Magus, Barter in Blood, and Diabolic Intent.
And you're right about some of my card choices having better alternatives for multiplayer play. I guess I actually took out Innocent Blood for Geth's Verdict to make it better in 1v1. I'm going to have to decide if I want the deck to be good in multiplayer, good in 1v1, or just alright at both.
Anyway, thank you for the tips
Retired EDH (You're welcome)
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter :symw::symu::symb:
Casual
:symw::symg::symr::symu: Multi-Colored Allies :symw::symg::symr::symu:
:symg::symr: Tap Damage :symg::symr:
You raise a valid point about Grave Titan. My thinking was that every card in the list needs to be able to stand up by itself or interact with your commander, because you can't always count on a second card to be readily available when you need it.
For example, I've considered cutting Sword of the Meek from my Sharuum list because it's pretty bad without Thopter Foundry. Conversely, Thopter Foundry is still excellent by itself or with anything else in my deck besides the Sword (protecting my artifacts from exile effects like Into the Core is huge for me, and the life gain and extra tokens aren't bad either).
However, I suppose having extra bodies to sacrifice might not be a bad thing. I would suggest adding Altar of Dementia and Ashnod's Altar to your list. The milling/extra mana are great, but even more important is a free sac outlet to make sure that your Geth targets make it back to the yard safely instead of being exiled or tucked.
Wow Altar of Dementia looks amazing. I saw you have your own Geth decklist up - looks good. Lots of cool interactions and manipulations going on. It does look like it is one of those EDH decks that really relies on the commander, have you had problems winning with Geth tucked? That's one of the things I like the most about my Geth deck is that, compared to my other decks, it is much less reliant on the commander.
P.S. when are you going to post your Akroma decklist? I'm in the works of polishing up my Akroma deck right now
Retired EDH (You're welcome)
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter :symw::symu::symb:
Casual
:symw::symg::symr::symu: Multi-Colored Allies :symw::symg::symr::symu:
:symg::symr: Tap Damage :symg::symr:
Yeah, Altar of Dementia is pretty sick with Geth. Definitely want to slam that in there, and give further consideration to anything else with the word "Altar" in the name.
My Akroma list is still under construction. I'm trying to decide what direction I want to take it. I can tell you that my copy of Akroma is a very minty fresh foil one from Legions (my brother kept it on a shelf from the day he opened it in a pack) and that her purple hair matches my sleeves very nicely. Furthermore, all of my basics are the Snow-Covered Plains from Ice Age with the purple sky in the background, so they look pretty sweet together. I'll try to post something about it this weekend.