The Theme:- The overall goal is to basically win through tempo and card advantage, as well as having lots of answers for almost any problem. In my experience, the deck is HEAVILY dependent on getting a lot of mana, but I think I got all my mana troubles covered with all my card draw...and my mana curve is also very good as well.
The General:- I like Teferi because he's basically a card that improves the deck, but I don't necessarily NEED to have him on the field in order to win. He's very versatile since you can cast him at instant speed, and his abilities really do improve the quality of all my creature cards as well.
The Combos:- While this wasn't intentional, I realize that if I have 12 mana, Mindslaver, and Academy Ruins, I can basically take ONE of my opponent's turns indefinitely. Another combo (but again, not the main theme of the deck) is using Vesuvan Shapeshifter and Brine Elemental to lock my opponents down, but as I said earlier, the deck isn't really intended to do these things...it just can.
The Cards That Are Not In The Deck: Commandeer- Too expensive in my opinion. I know people say it is a staple, but I think Redirect or Twincast are better options. Acquire- In my experiences, there has hardly ever been an artifact in my opponents deck that I want THAT badly. Fact or Fiction- Why would you want this when you have the Sphinx of Uthuun? Blatant Thievery- It's not a bad card, but it's only really effective against LOTS of opponents...and yes, there are times when I 1 v 1 this deck.
The Cards That Could Go In The Deck: Fact or Fiction- still have no idea what I should take out for it, but open to suggestions. Familiar's Ruse- I like abusing ETB effects, but I don't like situational counterspells, so I'm not sure about this guy yet. Note: I am always open to including other cards, but these are just the ones that I thought of off the top of my head.
Final Thoughts: As always, any help or advice is both welcomed and appreciated.
I would run both FoF and the sphinx. Maybe for Reins of Power? I know it's a potential game ender but it's also a potential useless dead card in your hand.
While I do see the potential in Knowledge Pool, I am still slightly wary of the fact that allowing my opponent to potentially play the top 3 cards of his library can REALLY cause me a lot more harm than good. I like the combination, and perhaps if I included cards like Fabricate, I might be able to make better use of Knowledge Pool. Sadly, I just think it's too much of a gamble for my tastes.
And as for Fact or Fiction, while I understand that it is 'instant speed' card draw, I would honestly prefer to draw Reins of Power over it. I mean, both are instant speed, but the Reins of Power give me the option of performing an amazing strike against my opponents (which is something that blue normally isn't capable of). Additionally, I already have TONS of card draw in the deck, and with other options like Brainstorm and Ancestral Vision, I just don't feel like Fact or Fiction measures up really.
While I do see the potential in Knowledge Pool, I am still slightly wary of the fact that allowing my opponent to potentially play the top 3 cards of his library can REALLY cause me a lot more harm than good. I like the combination, and perhaps if I included cards like Fabricate, I might be able to make better use of Knowledge Pool. Sadly, I just think it's too much of a gamble for my tastes.
And as for Fact or Fiction, while I understand that it is 'instant speed' card draw, I would honestly prefer to draw Reins of Power over it. I mean, both are instant speed, but the Reins of Power give me the option of performing an amazing strike against my opponents (which is something that blue normally isn't capable of). Additionally, I already have TONS of card draw in the deck, and with other options like Brainstorm and Ancestral Vision, I just don't feel like Fact or Fiction measures up really.
Fact or Fiction is some of the best draw ever printed. It blows Ancestral Vision so far out of the water, it isn't even funny. If you really need the 4 mana to cast creatures (and would therefore rather play draw with a cheap initial investment), that's cool - but you're really missing out.
You're dead wrong about Commandeer. The fact that it has an alternative cost is the sole reason so many people play it. In mono U you should almost always have two cards that can be readily pitched to it; just be aware of your table's countermagic.
Knowledge Pool is a hard lock if you have Teferi out. No one but you can play anything because the Pool's ability will still be on the stack when they go to cast their Knowledge Pool-exiled spell (the casting of the exiled spell is part of the resolution of its ability) - and that makes the exiled spell illegal to cast, so it's countered. At least that's my understanding of how Teferi/Pool works. I can understand not playing this combo as it's extremely douchey (Pool is easy to get and Teferi's your general...), but yeah - that's how it works.
basically knowdledge pool says they cant play anything and omen machine says they dont draw so they better have an answer in hand. and even if they do, well, your a mono-U player, if you dont have a counter or 2 on hand when you combo out your doing it wrong.
As has been said knowledge pool makes it so only you can play spells and adding insult to injury you can play their's as well. It's without a doubt the most powerful thing you can do with Teferi. Dropping a knowledge pool with Teferi out usually causes everyone to scoop. And if they don't they usually later wish they would have scooped. Read some of my thread to get an idea of what it's all about.
I recently looked over the Knowledge Pool/Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir lock combo, and I gotta say, it is really sick. My only issue with that combo is that due to Academy Ruins being able to recur my artifacts, it seems like a pretty 'un-fun' combination to use (almost like dropping an Iona, Shield of Emeria on turn two or something).
I will definitely need to consider using Knowledge Pool though, and I imagine that Fabricate might also get a spot in the deck as well.
Now then, back to the Fact or Fiction argument
While I won't deny that Fact or Fiction is a powerful card, I just don't see what it would replace in regards to my deck. In addition, considering the amount of card draw that is already in the deck, I'm not all that sure if the card itself is all that necessary.
I suppose the real issue I have with Fact or Fiction is that my OPPONENT is the one who decides how the two piles of cards or distributed. And while I know that the card is still good, I'd like to point out why I think this is a distinct problem:
1) It is NEVER a good idea to allow your opponent to control ANYTHING that you play (examples: Browbeat and Choice of Damnations) I just don't like the idea of giving my opponent the power to control what it is I might draw (especially when they divide several good cards among the different piles).
2) Counterspells can become much less effective since the cards used in Fact or Fiction are revealed. Therefore, my opponent now knows that I have answers in my hand, and can play around them accordingly.
3) When you consider how much reanimation is in the format, I'm not entirely cool with sending the cards that I didn't chose into the graveyard (especially if I had to throw a rather dangerous creature into the grave in favor something more practical that I needed at the time in the pile that I chose to keep).
4) Reanimation is not very common for my blue deck, so anything I pitch, odds are, I'll never be able to get back anyway (which kinda sucks if I end up pitching a good card). I realize that Artisan of Kozilek and Mnemonic Wall are the exceptions to this rule, but other than that, I'd need to get an Eldrazi titan in the grave in order to re-shuffle the cards I lost back into my deck.
5) For me, the Sphinx of Uthuun is simply superior because with Teferi on the field, I can still cast him at instant speed (which is basically now makes him a Fact or Fiction with a large fattie to boot).
Now again, if you can point out an inferior card that Fact or Fiction can trump, I"m all for it. However, I really am considering using cards like Gilded Drake, Spelljack, and Desertion too...so I already have a lot that needs to be changed already.
And as for Commandeer, in my experience, the stuff that I could gain control of with this card is actually very limited (and in other cases, not that useful). Wraith effects don't really matter (unless it's a Decree of Pain or something), counter magic isn't effected at all, and losing 3 cards to redirect a spot removal isn't worth it in my opinion (especially when a lot of my cards function independently, and the deck doesn't exactly rely on any particular creature to win).
Yet, as always, I'd love to hear your thoughts about why this card is better then I'm giving it credit for. The thing I always consider with this deck is that there is hardly a single card that I would ever consider a 'dead draw'...so pitching a bunch of cards in order to use Commandeer seems rather counterproductive.
However, I am very grateful for the advice, and again, thank you for leaving your comments.
Sometimes commandeer can flat out win you the game which I would gladly trade two cards for. Stuff like Exsanguinate is in almost every black deck and a perfect example of what you can get out of commandeer. Since you run a lot of creatures I would love to commandeer a huge genesis wave. Those may not happen every game where you happen to have commandeer when they play their pumped x-spell but the times you internationally tap out to lure a huge spell and then comandeer it are priceless.
I recently looked over the Knowledge Pool/Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir lock combo, and I gotta say, it is really sick. My only issue with that combo is that due to Academy Ruins being able to recur my artifacts, it seems like a pretty 'un-fun' combination to use (almost like dropping an Iona, Shield of Emeria on turn two or something).
I will definitely need to consider using Knowledge Pool though, and I imagine that Fabricate might also get a spot in the deck as well.
Now then, back to the Fact or Fiction argument
While I won't deny that Fact or Fiction is a powerful card, I just don't see what it would replace in regards to my deck. In addition, considering the amount of card draw that is already in the deck, I'm not all that sure if the card itself is all that necessary.
I suppose the real issue I have with Fact or Fiction is that my OPPONENT is the one who decides how the two piles of cards or distributed. And while I know that the card is still good, I'd like to point out why I think this is a distinct problem:
1) It is NEVER a good idea to allow your opponent to control ANYTHING that you play (examples: Browbeat and Choice of Damnations) I just don't like the idea of giving my opponent the power to control what it is I might draw (especially when they divide several good cards among the different piles).
2) Counterspells can become much less effective since the cards used in Fact or Fiction are revealed. Therefore, my opponent now knows that I have answers in my hand, and can play around them accordingly.
3) When you consider how much reanimation is in the format, I'm not entirely cool with sending the cards that I didn't chose into the graveyard (especially if I had to throw a rather dangerous creature into the grave in favor something more practical that I needed at the time in the pile that I chose to keep).
4) Reanimation is not very common for my blue deck, so anything I pitch, odds are, I'll never be able to get back anyway (which kinda sucks if I end up pitching a good card). I realize that Artisan of Kozilek and Mnemonic Wall are the exceptions to this rule, but other than that, I'd need to get an Eldrazi titan in the grave in order to re-shuffle the cards I lost back into my deck.
5) For me, the Sphinx of Uthuun is simply superior because with Teferi on the field, I can still cast him at instant speed (which is basically now makes him a Fact or Fiction with a large fattie to boot).
Now again, if you can point out an inferior card that Fact or Fiction can trump, I"m all for it. However, I really am considering using cards like Gilded Drake, Spelljack, and Desertion too...so I already have a lot that needs to be changed already.
And as for Commandeer, in my experience, the stuff that I could gain control of with this card is actually very limited (and in other cases, not that useful). Wraith effects don't really matter (unless it's a Decree of Pain or something), counter magic isn't effected at all, and losing 3 cards to redirect a spot removal isn't worth it in my opinion (especially when a lot of my cards function independently, and the deck doesn't exactly rely on any particular creature to win).
Yet, as always, I'd love to hear your thoughts about why this card is better then I'm giving it credit for. The thing I always consider with this deck is that there is hardly a single card that I would ever consider a 'dead draw'...so pitching a bunch of cards in order to use Commandeer seems rather counterproductive.
However, I am very grateful for the advice, and again, thank you for leaving your comments.
If anything this post tells me you should probably consider running Relic of Progenitus. If you are having problems with opponents rezing things then the relic gives you a way to strip the targets from them and also it cantrips off to replace itself so for 2 mana you can play and cycle it off. It is a great card to have as even if you arent up against recursion tactics you can always just throw it out for another card.
Also, If you don't want to give them good targets to rez then simply pick the pile that they cant rez. Fact or Fiction might very well be the best card draw in blue and I would strongly recommend you try it out anyways. Telling people that you have counters is actually good a lot of times because then they just wont use their good stuff and allow you to play easier. You are playing mono blue... I think they already know that you have counter options.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
While I do think that the Relic of Progenitus has it's uses, I don't really see it being part of the deck. However, here are a few cards that I think I'm gonna add.
I feel like the counterspells are much more superior when compared to some of the other ones i have, but I'm not exactly sure what to take out yet. Here are my possible thoughts and why:
Remand- great card in other formats, but not sure if it's strong enough here Stormtide Leviathan- I like this card a lot, but some say it's rather weak Tidespout Tyrant- he feels a little slow and clunky for me, but again, not sure. Deprive- it's a solid counterspell, but very inferior compared to others. Hinder- not sure if I still need this when i have Spell Crumple.
Other cards up for consideration:
Fact or Fiction- Yes, u guys are selling me on this point, but i don't know what to take out. Fabricate- might take out Trinket Mage for this, but not sure.
Any thoughts about my choices? Please feel free to let me know.
Riftwing Cloudskate- doesn't have enough impact on the board as i would like. Trinket Mage- Fabricate was simply more versatile. Brittle Effigy- I have enough copy cards and creature theft that I don't think this is necessary. Remand- typically speaking, if I want to counter something, I want it to go away for good. Pact of Negation- it's not a bad card, but I think it's inferior when compared to the other counterspells. Hinder- Mana Drain was simply too good.
And there you have it. Sadly this new deck list knocks up my mana curve a bit, but i think overall the deck because much more powerful because of it.
Any further thoughts are always appreciated.
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Time Traveling Teferi
"We define the boundaries of reality; they don't define us."-Teferi
1x Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Creatures: (30)
1x Artisan of Kozilek
1x Body Double
1x Brine Elemental
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Draining Whelk
1x Duplicant
1x Frost Titan
1x Gilded Drake
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Ixidron
1x Kederekt Leviathan
1x Keiga, the Tide Star
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1x Memnarch
1x Mnemonic Wall
1x Mulldrifter
1x Phantasmal Image
1x Phyrexian Ingester
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Sower of Temptation
1x Sphinx of Lost Truths
1x Sphinx of Magosi
1x Sphinx of Uthuun
1x Stormtide Leviathan
1x Tidespout Tyrant
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Vesuvan Shapeshifter
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Batterskull
1x Mimic Vat
1x Mindslaver
1x Nevinyrral's Disk
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
Instants: (15)
1x Brainstorm
1x Counterspell
1x Cryptic Command
1x Desertion
1x Dismal Failure
1x Evacuation
1x Hinder
1x Mana Drain
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Pongify
1x Reins of Power
1x Spelljack
1x Spell Crumple
1x Spin into Myth
1x Time Stop
Sorcery: (7)
1x All Is Dust
1x Ancestral Vision
1x Bribery
1x Fabricate
1x Rite of Replication
1x Time Stretch
1x Time Warp
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Karn Liberated
Lands: (38)
1x Academy Ruins
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Dread Statuary
1x Faerie Conclave
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Halimar Depths
20x Island
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1x Miren, the Moaning Well
1x Mishra's Factory
1x Mutavault
1x Mystifying Maze
1x Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Seat of the Synod
1x Strip Mine
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Tolaria West
1x Wasteland
The Theme:- The overall goal is to basically win through tempo and card advantage, as well as having lots of answers for almost any problem. In my experience, the deck is HEAVILY dependent on getting a lot of mana, but I think I got all my mana troubles covered with all my card draw...and my mana curve is also very good as well.
The General:- I like Teferi because he's basically a card that improves the deck, but I don't necessarily NEED to have him on the field in order to win. He's very versatile since you can cast him at instant speed, and his abilities really do improve the quality of all my creature cards as well.
The Combos:- While this wasn't intentional, I realize that if I have 12 mana, Mindslaver, and Academy Ruins, I can basically take ONE of my opponent's turns indefinitely. Another combo (but again, not the main theme of the deck) is using Vesuvan Shapeshifter and Brine Elemental to lock my opponents down, but as I said earlier, the deck isn't really intended to do these things...it just can.
The Cards That Are Not In The Deck:
Commandeer- Too expensive in my opinion. I know people say it is a staple, but I think Redirect or Twincast are better options.
Acquire- In my experiences, there has hardly ever been an artifact in my opponents deck that I want THAT badly.
Fact or Fiction- Why would you want this when you have the Sphinx of Uthuun?
Blatant Thievery- It's not a bad card, but it's only really effective against LOTS of opponents...and yes, there are times when I 1 v 1 this deck.
The Cards That Could Go In The Deck:
Fact or Fiction- still have no idea what I should take out for it, but open to suggestions.
Familiar's Ruse- I like abusing ETB effects, but I don't like situational counterspells, so I'm not sure about this guy yet.
Note: I am always open to including other cards, but these are just the ones that I thought of off the top of my head.
Final Thoughts: As always, any help or advice is both welcomed and appreciated.
Thank You Rivenor/Miraculous Recovery Studios!
GGGSKamahl's Band of Monstosities SGGG
RRRSFreaki-Kiki, The Goblin DoucheSRRR
BBGGNath, Raper of Hands and Spewer of Tokens!GGBB
BUGDamia, Sage of AnswersBUG
WIPs
BBBXiahou Dun, the Bitter Stax Enabling BastardBBB
On Break
BBBSKagemaro, First to RetireSBBB
BBBThe Walking DeadBBB
UUUSTeferi Combo PrimerSUUU
And as for Fact or Fiction, while I understand that it is 'instant speed' card draw, I would honestly prefer to draw Reins of Power over it. I mean, both are instant speed, but the Reins of Power give me the option of performing an amazing strike against my opponents (which is something that blue normally isn't capable of). Additionally, I already have TONS of card draw in the deck, and with other options like Brainstorm and Ancestral Vision, I just don't feel like Fact or Fiction measures up really.
Fact or Fiction is some of the best draw ever printed. It blows Ancestral Vision so far out of the water, it isn't even funny. If you really need the 4 mana to cast creatures (and would therefore rather play draw with a cheap initial investment), that's cool - but you're really missing out.
You're dead wrong about Commandeer. The fact that it has an alternative cost is the sole reason so many people play it. In mono U you should almost always have two cards that can be readily pitched to it; just be aware of your table's countermagic.
Knowledge Pool is a hard lock if you have Teferi out. No one but you can play anything because the Pool's ability will still be on the stack when they go to cast their Knowledge Pool-exiled spell (the casting of the exiled spell is part of the resolution of its ability) - and that makes the exiled spell illegal to cast, so it's countered. At least that's my understanding of how Teferi/Pool works. I can understand not playing this combo as it's extremely douchey (Pool is easy to get and Teferi's your general...), but yeah - that's how it works.
basically knowdledge pool says they cant play anything and omen machine says they dont draw so they better have an answer in hand. and even if they do, well, your a mono-U player, if you dont have a counter or 2 on hand when you combo out your doing it wrong.
Gfast animals slow shildrenG
51-18-4 (retired as of 6-4-11)
Thank You Rivenor/Miraculous Recovery Studios!
GGGSKamahl's Band of Monstosities SGGG
RRRSFreaki-Kiki, The Goblin DoucheSRRR
BBGGNath, Raper of Hands and Spewer of Tokens!GGBB
BUGDamia, Sage of AnswersBUG
WIPs
BBBXiahou Dun, the Bitter Stax Enabling BastardBBB
On Break
BBBSKagemaro, First to RetireSBBB
BBBThe Walking DeadBBB
UUUSTeferi Combo PrimerSUUU
I will definitely need to consider using Knowledge Pool though, and I imagine that Fabricate might also get a spot in the deck as well.
Now then, back to the Fact or Fiction argument
While I won't deny that Fact or Fiction is a powerful card, I just don't see what it would replace in regards to my deck. In addition, considering the amount of card draw that is already in the deck, I'm not all that sure if the card itself is all that necessary.
I suppose the real issue I have with Fact or Fiction is that my OPPONENT is the one who decides how the two piles of cards or distributed. And while I know that the card is still good, I'd like to point out why I think this is a distinct problem:
1) It is NEVER a good idea to allow your opponent to control ANYTHING that you play (examples: Browbeat and Choice of Damnations) I just don't like the idea of giving my opponent the power to control what it is I might draw (especially when they divide several good cards among the different piles).
2) Counterspells can become much less effective since the cards used in Fact or Fiction are revealed. Therefore, my opponent now knows that I have answers in my hand, and can play around them accordingly.
3) When you consider how much reanimation is in the format, I'm not entirely cool with sending the cards that I didn't chose into the graveyard (especially if I had to throw a rather dangerous creature into the grave in favor something more practical that I needed at the time in the pile that I chose to keep).
4) Reanimation is not very common for my blue deck, so anything I pitch, odds are, I'll never be able to get back anyway (which kinda sucks if I end up pitching a good card). I realize that Artisan of Kozilek and Mnemonic Wall are the exceptions to this rule, but other than that, I'd need to get an Eldrazi titan in the grave in order to re-shuffle the cards I lost back into my deck.
5) For me, the Sphinx of Uthuun is simply superior because with Teferi on the field, I can still cast him at instant speed (which is basically now makes him a Fact or Fiction with a large fattie to boot).
Now again, if you can point out an inferior card that Fact or Fiction can trump, I"m all for it. However, I really am considering using cards like Gilded Drake, Spelljack, and Desertion too...so I already have a lot that needs to be changed already.
And as for Commandeer, in my experience, the stuff that I could gain control of with this card is actually very limited (and in other cases, not that useful). Wraith effects don't really matter (unless it's a Decree of Pain or something), counter magic isn't effected at all, and losing 3 cards to redirect a spot removal isn't worth it in my opinion (especially when a lot of my cards function independently, and the deck doesn't exactly rely on any particular creature to win).
Yet, as always, I'd love to hear your thoughts about why this card is better then I'm giving it credit for. The thing I always consider with this deck is that there is hardly a single card that I would ever consider a 'dead draw'...so pitching a bunch of cards in order to use Commandeer seems rather counterproductive.
However, I am very grateful for the advice, and again, thank you for leaving your comments.
Thank You Rivenor/Miraculous Recovery Studios!
GGGSKamahl's Band of Monstosities SGGG
RRRSFreaki-Kiki, The Goblin DoucheSRRR
BBGGNath, Raper of Hands and Spewer of Tokens!GGBB
BUGDamia, Sage of AnswersBUG
WIPs
BBBXiahou Dun, the Bitter Stax Enabling BastardBBB
On Break
BBBSKagemaro, First to RetireSBBB
BBBThe Walking DeadBBB
UUUSTeferi Combo PrimerSUUU
If anything this post tells me you should probably consider running Relic of Progenitus. If you are having problems with opponents rezing things then the relic gives you a way to strip the targets from them and also it cantrips off to replace itself so for 2 mana you can play and cycle it off. It is a great card to have as even if you arent up against recursion tactics you can always just throw it out for another card.
Also, If you don't want to give them good targets to rez then simply pick the pile that they cant rez. Fact or Fiction might very well be the best card draw in blue and I would strongly recommend you try it out anyways. Telling people that you have counters is actually good a lot of times because then they just wont use their good stuff and allow you to play easier. You are playing mono blue... I think they already know that you have counter options.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
I feel like the counterspells are much more superior when compared to some of the other ones i have, but I'm not exactly sure what to take out yet. Here are my possible thoughts and why:
Remand- great card in other formats, but not sure if it's strong enough here
Stormtide Leviathan- I like this card a lot, but some say it's rather weak
Tidespout Tyrant- he feels a little slow and clunky for me, but again, not sure.
Deprive- it's a solid counterspell, but very inferior compared to others.
Hinder- not sure if I still need this when i have Spell Crumple.
Other cards up for consideration:
Fact or Fiction- Yes, u guys are selling me on this point, but i don't know what to take out.
Fabricate- might take out Trinket Mage for this, but not sure.
Any thoughts about my choices? Please feel free to let me know.
And here is what was taken out and why:
Riftwing Cloudskate- doesn't have enough impact on the board as i would like.
Trinket Mage- Fabricate was simply more versatile.
Brittle Effigy- I have enough copy cards and creature theft that I don't think this is necessary.
Remand- typically speaking, if I want to counter something, I want it to go away for good.
Pact of Negation- it's not a bad card, but I think it's inferior when compared to the other counterspells.
Hinder- Mana Drain was simply too good.
And there you have it. Sadly this new deck list knocks up my mana curve a bit, but i think overall the deck because much more powerful because of it.
Any further thoughts are always appreciated.