In an Enduring Ideal deck, your goal is to ramp to 7 mana to cast the namesake card, Enduring Ideal. Each turn thereafter your deck is built to respond to anything with a silver-bullet enchantment.
Dovescape and Raking Canopy can effectively shut down noncreature spells. Lucent Liminid and Eldrazi Conscription can create a mini-Emrakul along with your other Enchantments. The Support
Oblivion Ring is good removal and can be tutored with Enduring Ideal in a pinch. Dismember/Remand/Path To Exile: Sometimes you just need to buy some turns. The Ramp
This is exactly the deck I've been wanting to build for modern, I feel like there has to be an engine available to make it function. The problems I've been running into are surviving to cast enduring ideal when decks like cloudpost and zoo are so rampant and can kill so effectively on turn 4.
I was reviewing some of the old Aggro-Ideal lists the other day, and it seems like it might be possible to use that strategy of playing a stalling ealy game with goyfs and value creatures to bog the opponent down until the deck reaches the critical mass point for Ideal. It seems like a resolved ideal is basically game over with all of the silver bullet enchantments available, but it's incredibly difficult to make it to that point.
Said that, you just need to find a solution against 12post
Thank you for your input :). 12post is a decent match for this deck, but if you cast Enduring Ideal before they're big dudes come out you have a good chance of locking them down. Even if they have an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn out, a journey can take rid of him. I've been testing this deck on Trice for a while now and i'd say the match up is about 50/50.
This is the deck that I have been using online to decent success. I went 3-1 in a recent daily with it, losing game 3 of the 4th round due to play mistakes against mono green 12 post.
Have you considered a Paradox Haze or two. It really adds some speed to the deck and it makes up for the lost enchantment by the first upkeep. It also adds an element of surprise to the deck.
Hello, so I played in a daily event online and went 3-1 again with a slightly different main deck and sideboard which can be found in daily 35 of the daily results thread.
Game 1 - I misclick after my Ponder and forget to suspend Lotus Bloom when I am on the draw. The game was pretty close, but I would have won this one had I suspended turn one. His plays were pretty standard this game.
Game 2 - On both turn 3 and turn 4 when I am going to Enduring Ideal he Beast Within my Pentad Prism
to stall him long enough for the win.
1-1
Game 1 - I keep an iffy hand and he miscalculates when he can go off and wastes a Seething Song unless he was trying to bait out a counter of something. He plays Remand on my Seething Song and I just play Enduring Ideal the next turn for the win.
Game 2 - I Trickbind his Dragonstorm and hope to to find an answer to his Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund. I don't...
Game 3 - Very Long game, but to keep it simple. we have like 3 huge counter wars. He flashes in a Bogardan Hellkite and puts me at 10 life. I Oblivion Ring the hellkite. He Remand on my Enduring Ideal 3 turns in a row, but I eventually get it to resolve for the win.
3-1
what about teferi's moat as a solution to aggro strategies? likewise it might not hurt to have that aura from kamigawa (i totally forget which one) that's a pacifism that gains you 4 life to fight against zoo strategies keeping your life slightly afloat and stalling into the Ideal. The deck seems like it really just wants to stall the opponent out as much as possible until it's possible to cast ideal, which seems to generally win the game in pretty short order.
what about teferi's moat as a solution to aggro strategies? likewise it might not hurt to have that aura from kamigawa (i totally forget which one) that's a pacifism that gains you 4 life to fight against zoo strategies keeping your life slightly afloat and stalling into the Ideal. The deck seems like it really just wants to stall the opponent out as much as possible until it's possible to cast ideal, which seems to generally win the game in pretty short order.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
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Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
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ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
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ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
copy enchantment seems like it could be solid, and I feel like followed footsteps could maybe be a really good sideboard card.
I feel like we should probably iron out a solid list of generally good main deckable enchantments and silver bullets. get something solid down to test with. Also is the best route to go the ramp counter route? or would it be better to go more the route of the old aggro-ideal deck that mike flores worked on years ago. I found some info on that deck in an old SCG article, and the deck looked really powerful for the format it was in, I have to imagine with moderns card pool that deck could only be upgraded
If i search a Colfenor's Plans and put it into play i can play the removed magic's? or i cant? since enduring say's i cant play magic's, but colfenor says i can play the removed magic's, i know it have to check the layers thing but i don't have that much os experience in magic to say.
copy enchantment seems like it could be solid, and I feel like followed footsteps could maybe be a really good sideboard card.
I feel like we should probably iron out a solid list of generally good main deckable enchantments and silver bullets. get something solid down to test with. Also is the best route to go the ramp counter route? or would it be better to go more the route of the old aggro-ideal deck that mike flores worked on years ago. I found some info on that deck in an old SCG article, and the deck looked really powerful for the format it was in, I have to imagine with moderns card pool that deck could only be upgraded
i actually made a mistake, i thought that followed footsteps was with any permanent... Im interested in modern and will draw up a decklist from what results with this and come back with how it does. I have an edh built around the ideal and i want to make this puppy work and become a tier 1 juggernaught
By the time you even cast Enduring Ideal, Affinity has vomited its hand onto the table and likely beaten you down to 5 life or less. And then they Fling their Atog at you.
By the time you even cast Enduring Ideal, Affinity has vomited its hand onto the table and likely beaten you down to 5 life or less. And then they Fling their Atog at you.
very true
Wheel of Sun & Moon seems like it could be good. if you lose a key enchantment, youll get it back next turn.
wheel of sun and moon seems really good here actually, it'd stop most enchantment hate pretty outright unless they destroyed it first. Probably another board card though for if the opponent brings in artifact hate.
I'm interested in if endless horizons is worth it or not though, it seems like by turn 4 you really need to do better things than cast that with how fast modern is, and with signets and prism and seething sun type effects legal it probably isn't hugely necessary to run something like that.
The thing I think is most important is being able to consistently hit ideal, the real trick is going to be finding a good balance of dig, disruption, ramp, and then package. It's what's been really giving me the biggest headache working on this deck and trying to come up with a solid list, not dying to decks like zoo and post while also ramping up to the ideal and finding the ideal. I'd love to see this deck optimized though and I'd definitely play it in modern, it just seems like if an optimal list is possible it'd be pretty strong.
wheel of sun and moon seems really good here actually, it'd stop most enchantment hate pretty outright unless they destroyed it first. Probably another board card though for if the opponent brings in artifact hate.
I'm interested in if endless horizons is worth it or not though, it seems like by turn 4 you really need to do better things than cast that with how fast modern is, and with signets and prism and seething sun type effects legal it probably isn't hugely necessary to run something like that.
The thing I think is most important is being able to consistently hit ideal, the real trick is going to be finding a good balance of dig, disruption, ramp, and then package. It's what's been really giving me the biggest headache working on this deck and trying to come up with a solid list, not dying to decks like zoo and post while also ramping up to the ideal and finding the ideal. I'd love to see this deck optimized though and I'd definitely play it in modern, it just seems like if an optimal list is possible it'd be pretty strong.
What colors are the deck. It would seem good W/u or W/G/U. I say blue because of See beyond. 2 cards and we shuffle back in an enchantment we'd want to search up, sounds good to me.
What colors are the deck. It would seem good W/u or W/G/U. I say blue because of See beyond. 2 cards and we shuffle back in an enchantment we'd want to search up, sounds good to me.
i feel like red need to be in the deck for form of the dragon since it's the best win condition available for ideal to fetch and being able to hard cast it separate from ideal if necessary is probably a good idea. Otherwise w/u seem like the primary colors of the deck. Mana is good enough in modern that we can probably make the stretches to a 4th color splash for green or something similar. It all depends on what enchantments and early game we need.
I'm thinking about Boseiju, Who Shelters All. My control matchup has been abysmal. My list, for reference: (I've now added Boseiju). Seems like the pros generally agree?
In an Enduring Ideal deck, your goal is to ramp to 7 mana to cast the namesake card, Enduring Ideal. Each turn thereafter your deck is built to respond to anything with a silver-bullet enchantment.
Recommended
Alright
Not Recommended
Digging Spells
Ponder
Preordain
Peer Through Depths
Thirst for Knowledge
Magma Jet
Compulsive Research
Telling Time
Serum Powder Really good in a combo deck.
Serum Visions Preordain is better.
Crystal Ball Seems pretty good in this deck. Against decks packing thougtseizes and duresses, you can keep your Enduring Ideal hidden on top of your deck until you have enough mana to cast it.
Dark Confidant The best tempo boost in modern.
Sleight of Hand Preordain and Ponder outclass this by far.
The Combos
Form of the Dragon
Lucent Liminid/Eldrazi Conscription
Dovescape/Raking Canopy
Story Circle / Shifting Sky
Wrath of Marit Lage + Shifting Sky + Frozen AEther
Personal Sanctuary / ManaBarbs
Dovescape and Raking Canopy can effectively shut down noncreature spells.
Lucent Liminid and Eldrazi Conscription can create a mini-Emrakul along with your other Enchantments.
The Support
Oblivion Ring
Remand
Dismember/:)Path to Exile
Condescend
Cancel
Mana Leak
Broken Ambitions Condescend is almost always better
Repeal
Go for the Throat
Doom Blade Good, but Go For the Throat is usually better.
Boomerang
Echoing Truth
Into the Roil
Oblivion Ring is good removal and can be tutored with Enduring Ideal in a pinch. Dismember/Remand/Path To Exile: Sometimes you just need to buy some turns.
The Ramp
Pentad Prism
Azorius Signet and other Signets.
Coalition Relic
Everflowing Chalice
Mind Stone
Lotus Bloom
Sphere of the Suns
Coldsteel Heart
Darksteel Ingot
Serum Powder Even if you don't use it to mulligan, it will help you ramp later.
Talisman of Progress and other Talismans.
If you play green:
Bird of Paradise
Overgrown Battlement
Rampant Growth
Explore
Farseek
Search for Tommorow
Kodama's Reach / Cultivate
Sakura-Tribe Elder
For the deck to be effective you need to cast Enduring Ideal around turn 3 or 4.
Tutorable Utility Cards
Journey to Nowhere
Leyline of the Void
Leyline of Sanctity
Paradox Haze
Ghostly Prison
Seal of Primordium
Blood Moon
Paradox Haze can double the enchantments you get. Seal of Primordium can get rid of problem permanents.
Here is a Link to Andre Mueller's Enduring Ideal deck from 2007. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOfqmPhmHkA
Although the deck is not modern-legal, its a good place to start.
Potential Targets
Exclusion Ritual
Everlasting Torment
Gravitational Shift
Meishin, the Mind Cage
Phyrexian Unlife
Reverence
Zur's Weirding
Worship
Wrath of Marit Lage + Shifting Sky + Frozen AEther
Story Circle
Mind Control / Corrupted Conscience / Persuasion
Honden of Night's Reach
Honden of Life's Web
Honden of Infinite Rage
Honden of Seeing Winds
Honden of Cleansing Fire
Karma
Night of Soul's Betrayal
Personal Sanctuary
Mana Barbs
Rule of Law
Lightmine Field
Sample Deck Lists
I was reviewing some of the old Aggro-Ideal lists the other day, and it seems like it might be possible to use that strategy of playing a stalling ealy game with goyfs and value creatures to bog the opponent down until the deck reaches the critical mass point for Ideal. It seems like a resolved ideal is basically game over with all of the silver bullet enchantments available, but it's incredibly difficult to make it to that point.
Thank you for your input :). 12post is a decent match for this deck, but if you cast Enduring Ideal before they're big dudes come out you have a good chance of locking them down. Even if they have an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn out, a journey can take rid of him. I've been testing this deck on Trice for a while now and i'd say the match up is about 50/50.
4x Ponder
4x Preordain
4x Pentad Prism
4x Seething Song
4x Remand
3x Lotus Bloom
3x Form of the Dragon
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Path to exile
2x Dovescape
1x Night of Souls' Betrayal
1x Meishin, the Mind Cage
1x Blood Moon
1x Greater Auramancy
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Arid Mesa
1x Steam Vents
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Hallowed Fountain
6x Island
2x Plains
1x Mountain
4x Mindbreak Trap
4x Pyroclasm
2x Blood Moon
1x Leyline of Sanctity
I have been thinking about swapping Path to Exile with a couple of Silence to see how that works out.
Have you considered a Paradox Haze or two. It really adds some speed to the deck and it makes up for the lost enchantment by the first upkeep. It also adds an element of surprise to the deck.
Here is a mini Report
Round:1 (Tribal Flames zoo with Dark Confidant and such)
Game 1 - I Oblivion Ring a Tarmogoyf, then cast my Blood Moon, He burns me down to 4 life after we stall for 7 turns or so. I Finally get Enduring Ideal and win from there.
Game 2 - He plays a Loam Lion and tons of burn, I Oblivion Ring his Loam lion and at this point my life is at 7. I Enduring Ideal lock him out the next turn.
1-0
Round:2 (Mono G 12 Post)
Game 1 - I misclick after my Ponder and forget to suspend Lotus Bloom when I am on the draw. The game was pretty close, but I would have won this one had I suspended turn one. His plays were pretty standard this game.
Game 2 - On both turn 3 and turn 4 when I am going to Enduring Ideal he Beast Within my Pentad Prism
to stall him long enough for the win.
1-1
Round:3 (Affinity)
Game 1 - He plays tons of dudes and when I just about stabilize with Meishin, the Mind Cage, he plays a Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas for the win
Game 2 - I Pyroclasm his opening 3 guys, he plays Ethersworn Canonist. I play Pentad Prism into Form of the Dragon. I Trickbind his Arcbound Ravager modular ability onto his Blinkmoth Nexus and he dies next turn.
Game 3 - I Pyroclasm a lone Signal Pest twice because he has a Cranial Plating out. I hardcast Night of Souls' Betrayal off a Lotus Bloom and kill his equipped dude. I hardcast Form of the Dragon next turn and he finds no answer in the 4 turns he has to live.
2-1
Round:4 (Dragonstorm)
Game 1 - I keep an iffy hand and he miscalculates when he can go off and wastes a Seething Song unless he was trying to bait out a counter of something. He plays Remand on my Seething Song and I just play Enduring Ideal the next turn for the win.
Game 2 - I Trickbind his Dragonstorm and hope to to find an answer to his Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund. I don't...
Game 3 - Very Long game, but to keep it simple. we have like 3 huge counter wars. He flashes in a Bogardan Hellkite and puts me at 10 life. I Oblivion Ring the hellkite. He Remand on my Enduring Ideal 3 turns in a row, but I eventually get it to resolve for the win.
3-1
Insert witty phrase here
you cant use Teferi's Moat...it isnt modern legal
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyTimeshifted.
Legal.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
sorry then, i never knew it was timeshifted.
what about Copy Enchantment or Followed Footsteps?
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething Spicycopy enchantment seems like it could be solid, and I feel like followed footsteps could maybe be a really good sideboard card.
I feel like we should probably iron out a solid list of generally good main deckable enchantments and silver bullets. get something solid down to test with. Also is the best route to go the ramp counter route? or would it be better to go more the route of the old aggro-ideal deck that mike flores worked on years ago. I found some info on that deck in an old SCG article, and the deck looked really powerful for the format it was in, I have to imagine with moderns card pool that deck could only be upgraded
LED Dredge
Tezz-Affinity
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care to share your list here? the more building blocks we have the better I think
i actually made a mistake, i thought that followed footsteps was with any permanent... Im interested in modern and will draw up a decklist from what results with this and come back with how it does. I have an edh built around the ideal and i want to make this puppy work and become a tier 1 juggernaught
seems good.
what about Hum of the Radix as a silver bullet against Affinity?
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyBy the time you even cast Enduring Ideal, Affinity has vomited its hand onto the table and likely beaten you down to 5 life or less. And then they Fling their Atog at you.
very true
Wheel of Sun & Moon seems like it could be good. if you lose a key enchantment, youll get it back next turn.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyI'm interested in if endless horizons is worth it or not though, it seems like by turn 4 you really need to do better things than cast that with how fast modern is, and with signets and prism and seething sun type effects legal it probably isn't hugely necessary to run something like that.
The thing I think is most important is being able to consistently hit ideal, the real trick is going to be finding a good balance of dig, disruption, ramp, and then package. It's what's been really giving me the biggest headache working on this deck and trying to come up with a solid list, not dying to decks like zoo and post while also ramping up to the ideal and finding the ideal. I'd love to see this deck optimized though and I'd definitely play it in modern, it just seems like if an optimal list is possible it'd be pretty strong.
What colors are the deck. It would seem good W/u or W/G/U. I say blue because of See beyond. 2 cards and we shuffle back in an enchantment we'd want to search up, sounds good to me.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething Spicyi feel like red need to be in the deck for form of the dragon since it's the best win condition available for ideal to fetch and being able to hard cast it separate from ideal if necessary is probably a good idea. Otherwise w/u seem like the primary colors of the deck. Mana is good enough in modern that we can probably make the stretches to a 4th color splash for green or something similar. It all depends on what enchantments and early game we need.
White for the namesake card, along with post board elements, Red for Blood Moon and Seething Song and Blue for filtering and card draw.
My mana base is also 'budget', with City of Brass, Painlands and basics
So far its good. I did find that its harder to win without an opening Lotus Bloom
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Pentad Prism
4 Seething Song
4 Remand
3 Lotus Bloom
3 Form of the Dragon
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Dovescape
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Meishin, the Mind Cage
1 Blood Moon
1 Greater Auramancy
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
1 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Hallowed Fountain
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Paradox Haze
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
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