Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
I think Primeval Titan should be banned. Instead of banning the lands ban the instigator. This would also allow Valakut to be legal.
The instigator in 12 Post is Cloudpost, not Primeval Titan. Banning Primeval Titan means 12 Post finds new friends to cause the same problems with. Cloudpost is the true engine of the deck.
The problem is that 12Post pretty much hates control out of the meta since the matchup is pretty much winnable. And as a result tons of combo decks pop up since they smash 12Post and there is no control to stop them.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
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But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
If you want to weaken but not kill 12Post, ban Emrakul. ****er shouldn't have been printed, and when you deny 12Post its uncounterable I-win button the deck becomes a lot more fair.
I feel something from 12Post needs to be banned. Otherwise, I agree with LSV that some unbannings are a better option than more bannings.
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When you peer long enough through the depths, the depths peer also through you.
I don't think WotC would ban Cloudpost to elimante a deck. I would think it be better to create a card that is a solution to mana ramp. None of the 'Titans" should be banned. If any card might get banned from 12 post, it would be that insane creature with a cmc of 15. Sorry, brain fart on the name.
I think it would be wrong to completely kill twelve post by banning cloudpost. Take away one of their other posts and the deck should be more balanced and fair. My vote would go to banning Vesuva as it probably would hurt almost no other decks while keeping the deck viable and still pretty much the same, just less consistent.
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"The smallest seed of regret can bloom into redemption."
Extended Scapeshift vs Modern (old extended) Scapeshift are two different decks. Valakut is a lot more powerful when you are playing 2-3 colors and every land in your deck is still a mountain.
The Prismatic Omen extended deck that runs counters cannot win without Prismatic Omen in play, but that's not true if it were legal in Modern. I have no idea how broken it would be in this meta, but the decks are completely different.
I don't see why they wouldn't ban Post if they banned Valakut. My other votes are for:
Goyf - The card is an over priced broken mistake and barrier to entry
Preordain - to much consitancey for combo and has been a silent menace in standard.
Pact of negation - Makes protecting combo far to easy
Rite of Flame - making ritual red actually has been more problematic than black.
Through the Breach - With the current trend of creatures this is silly.
Splinter Twin - I just don't like 2 card insta wins
Un Bann
Jace - Seriously he is not that bad he just took over with no good answers in standard.
Jitte - I don't see this being to dangerous w/o SFM
Chrome Mox - ok if other fast mana is gone
Bitter Blosm - unsure but it seems ok, Fae is fairly slow.
Ban Emrakul, unban most of the current ban list, reprint Force of Will. All problems will be rectified!
I remand your FoW. Got another Blue Spell?
Honestly FoW doesn't keep Legacy in check by itself. Legacy has a bunch of Hand/Land denial strategies that work against control mostly but combo as well to keep the format in check. Many of these things have been labeled as "unfun" by the "Modern" crowd.
Legacy also has "more broken" combo decks (just like modern did before the bans).
WotC needs to get off thier bum and over time (so not to destabilize standard) print the hate.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
@The Cardfather: While Force of Will won't keep the format in check by itself, it WILL slow the format down on its own. The very existence of Force of Will makes the format a turn 4 format as all the combo decks that are entirely Rituals and combo pieces can't possibly function properly. Brainstorm also makes Force a far more powerful card.
I don't see why they wouldn't ban Post if they banned Valakut. My other votes are for:
Goyf - The card is an over priced broken mistake and barrier to entry
Preordain - to much consitancey for combo and has been a silent menace in standard.
Pact of negation - Makes protecting combo far to easy
Rite of Flame - making ritual red actually has been more problematic than black.
Through the Breach - With the current trend of creatures this is silly.
Splinter Twin - I just don't like 2 card insta wins
Un Bann
Jace - Seriously he is not that bad he just took over with no good answers in standard.
Jitte - I don't see this being to dangerous w/o SFM
Chrome Mox - ok if other fast mana is gone
Bitter Blosm - unsure but it seems ok, Fae is fairly slow.
Goyf - Wizards really can't ban it on the grounds of being "too good and vanilla." Furthermore, Zoo is good, but not great, and Goyf isn't in combo or Post.
Preordain - yes.
Pact - probably not. It's good, but banning Preordain would neuter combo enough IMO.
Rite of Flame - maybe. Probably not.
Through the Breach - no. Emrakul is the issue, not Breach.
Splinter Twin - no. It's strong, but it still folds to a well-placed counter or removal spell.
As for the "unbans":
Jace - absolutely not, ever. Go play Legacy and tell me he's not that bad.
Jitte - absolutely.
Chrome Mox - yeah, I want T1 Dark Confidant. No thanks.
Bitterblossom - yes.
They really need to ban Emrakul and unban Misstep. I hate Misstep, but it would give control a bit more and keep combo in better check.
really emrakul is a problem, its too powerful a creature, the other 2 are agravating but not op
Pact of Negation seems way too good with combo as well, a hard counterspell for 0 with no drawback because there wont be a next turn? -_-
however if cloudpost was banned or weakened control could settle back in, which would weaken the combo decks, which would give aggro more leeway. In short, the format would become more diverse than just combo decks and post.
If they dont move quick they're going to have alot of uninitiated players (as in players who didnt buy Tarmogoyfs, Bobs and shocklands) turning their backs on the format when they realize they cant run their favorite decks.
Wizards just did that little poll on the website asking, " Have you made a modern deck in paper yet?" and "Do you plan to play Modern in paper" or w/e, and the results were like 18% or 24%, pretty damn low. If they want people to invest in decks and make the format popular they should be very responsive to players' requests, and react a bit faster than the Jace/SFM bannings with only 4 months left until rotation.
Probably Emrakul and Rite of Flame. Follow it with a long-overdue Stifle reprint.
Then unban Jitte and Ancestral Visions (or Bitterblossom, but I like AV better).
At the moment I say only those two. Emrakul never does anything remotely interesting or useful for the game and only exists to be degenerate. Cloudpost defies the game entirely allowing insane mana advantage at no cost to the user other than cipt. It is a worse offender than Valakut in the degenerate lands category and deserves to be banned more than Valakut.
Eh, Force of Will is a defining card in one format already. No need to make it two.
If they are going to maintain a creature-centric metagame without consistent turn 3-4 kills, I can't see how Cloudpost can exist in that format. The 'ban the helper cards, not the engine' arguments are basically the same ones used against Necropotence. Just ban Cloudpost and be done with it, and let the other cards stay freely available in the pool.
Get rid of Blazing Shoal and the cards that let U/R storm go off on turn 3-start with Rite of Flame and Grapeshot, and ban more if the Bushwacker/Empty deck is still getting fast kills.
That just leaves Splinter Twin and Melira, and I think they can exist in a creature centric metagame (Twin does in the current standard, though in a much weaker form) without warping it too much. If they are too good then they can be reviewed later. Besides, Melira is often a beatdown deck anyway.
Some will take issue with the need for the format to be creature centric, but R&D has said in the past that's where they want constructed to be, that's the way it is in Legacy and Standard (yes Legacy is a creature format), and I can't imagine that Modern is going to be some kind of special exception to that.
Oh, and the problem with getting rid of just Emrakul as a Cloudpost fix is that they then still have Through the Breach+Annihilator triggers, and still can recur their threats with card advantage (draw 4/Vindicate effect) via Eye of Ugin against control decks. It's the different between control losing on the spot with Emrakul or control losing a few turns later through attrition. That being said no one has ever done an honest thing with Emrakul and the card is an abomination.
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The instigator in 12 Post is Cloudpost, not Primeval Titan. Banning Primeval Titan means 12 Post finds new friends to cause the same problems with. Cloudpost is the true engine of the deck.
Normally I would agree with you, but from what I can understand the deck is keeping control out of the format...
UWU/W BlinkUW
BMono-Black ControlB
Commander:
GWUJenaraGWU
BGeth MBCB
RGXenagosRG
WUBSharuumWUB (retired)
Modern:
xAffinityx (starting)
Standard:
Ha! That's a good one.
I feel something from 12Post needs to be banned. Otherwise, I agree with LSV that some unbannings are a better option than more bannings.
Also to whoever said Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle could come off the list if Primeval Titan was banned, you obviously don't remember the Valakut Scapeshift decks with Prismatic Omen. They just ramp to 5 lands and it's game over.
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Actually the Prismatic Omen version of Scapeshift is pretty much strictly worse than RUG Scapeshift since its too reliant on Prismatic Omen.
UBANTBU
UBRWDDFTWRBU
WUBRGT.E.S.GRBUW
The Prismatic Omen extended deck that runs counters cannot win without Prismatic Omen in play, but that's not true if it were legal in Modern. I have no idea how broken it would be in this meta, but the decks are completely different.
My Blog About It
Goyf - The card is an over priced broken mistake and barrier to entry
Preordain - to much consitancey for combo and has been a silent menace in standard.
Pact of negation - Makes protecting combo far to easy
Rite of Flame - making ritual red actually has been more problematic than black.
Through the Breach - With the current trend of creatures this is silly.
Splinter Twin - I just don't like 2 card insta wins
Un Bann
Jace - Seriously he is not that bad he just took over with no good answers in standard.
Jitte - I don't see this being to dangerous w/o SFM
Chrome Mox - ok if other fast mana is gone
Bitter Blosm - unsure but it seems ok, Fae is fairly slow.
I think FoW is too powerful, but maybe Daze?
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
I remand your FoW. Got another Blue Spell?
Honestly FoW doesn't keep Legacy in check by itself. Legacy has a bunch of Hand/Land denial strategies that work against control mostly but combo as well to keep the format in check. Many of these things have been labeled as "unfun" by the "Modern" crowd.
Legacy also has "more broken" combo decks (just like modern did before the bans).
WotC needs to get off thier bum and over time (so not to destabilize standard) print the hate.
There's nothing OP about Force of Will.
@The Cardfather: While Force of Will won't keep the format in check by itself, it WILL slow the format down on its own. The very existence of Force of Will makes the format a turn 4 format as all the combo decks that are entirely Rituals and combo pieces can't possibly function properly. Brainstorm also makes Force a far more powerful card.
My Blog About It
Goyf - Wizards really can't ban it on the grounds of being "too good and vanilla." Furthermore, Zoo is good, but not great, and Goyf isn't in combo or Post.
Preordain - yes.
Pact - probably not. It's good, but banning Preordain would neuter combo enough IMO.
Rite of Flame - maybe. Probably not.
Through the Breach - no. Emrakul is the issue, not Breach.
Splinter Twin - no. It's strong, but it still folds to a well-placed counter or removal spell.
As for the "unbans":
Jace - absolutely not, ever. Go play Legacy and tell me he's not that bad.
Jitte - absolutely.
Chrome Mox - yeah, I want T1 Dark Confidant. No thanks.
Bitterblossom - yes.
They really need to ban Emrakul and unban Misstep. I hate Misstep, but it would give control a bit more and keep combo in better check.
Lands WUBG
EDH:
Doran WBG
Pact of Negation seems way too good with combo as well, a hard counterspell for 0 with no drawback because there wont be a next turn? -_-
however if cloudpost was banned or weakened control could settle back in, which would weaken the combo decks, which would give aggro more leeway. In short, the format would become more diverse than just combo decks and post.
If they dont move quick they're going to have alot of uninitiated players (as in players who didnt buy Tarmogoyfs, Bobs and shocklands) turning their backs on the format when they realize they cant run their favorite decks.
Wizards just did that little poll on the website asking, " Have you made a modern deck in paper yet?" and "Do you plan to play Modern in paper" or w/e, and the results were like 18% or 24%, pretty damn low. If they want people to invest in decks and make the format popular they should be very responsive to players' requests, and react a bit faster than the Jace/SFM bannings with only 4 months left until rotation.
Then unban Jitte and Ancestral Visions (or Bitterblossom, but I like AV better).
Cloudpost
At the moment I say only those two. Emrakul never does anything remotely interesting or useful for the game and only exists to be degenerate. Cloudpost defies the game entirely allowing insane mana advantage at no cost to the user other than cipt. It is a worse offender than Valakut in the degenerate lands category and deserves to be banned more than Valakut.
If they are going to maintain a creature-centric metagame without consistent turn 3-4 kills, I can't see how Cloudpost can exist in that format. The 'ban the helper cards, not the engine' arguments are basically the same ones used against Necropotence. Just ban Cloudpost and be done with it, and let the other cards stay freely available in the pool.
Get rid of Blazing Shoal and the cards that let U/R storm go off on turn 3-start with Rite of Flame and Grapeshot, and ban more if the Bushwacker/Empty deck is still getting fast kills.
That just leaves Splinter Twin and Melira, and I think they can exist in a creature centric metagame (Twin does in the current standard, though in a much weaker form) without warping it too much. If they are too good then they can be reviewed later. Besides, Melira is often a beatdown deck anyway.
Some will take issue with the need for the format to be creature centric, but R&D has said in the past that's where they want constructed to be, that's the way it is in Legacy and Standard (yes Legacy is a creature format), and I can't imagine that Modern is going to be some kind of special exception to that.
Oh, and the problem with getting rid of just Emrakul as a Cloudpost fix is that they then still have Through the Breach+Annihilator triggers, and still can recur their threats with card advantage (draw 4/Vindicate effect) via Eye of Ugin against control decks. It's the different between control losing on the spot with Emrakul or control losing a few turns later through attrition. That being said no one has ever done an honest thing with Emrakul and the card is an abomination.
However, I don't see either being banned anytime soon.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary