I created this thread for those who love Boros and are committed to making it teir one in Modern. The above list is the one I've been working on for a few weeks. I love Zektar Shrine and feel it should be a staple. I also really like Keldon Marauders and Magma Jet, though they are not commonly played in Boros.
I am iffy on Devastating Summons. It definately has won a few games with a kicked Bushwhacker and it has great synergy with Flagstones, but sometimes I would rather have any other card in my hand.
Countryside Crusher is used in RDW builds, as Boros builds tend to run more lands as well as run fetches it seems a viable beater to test.
The cards I dislike that your using: Magma Jet - I would almost rather run Needle Drop as it replaces itself for one less mana, and it's rare that you aren't as pleased to see a land as anything else. Simply, I'm not wholly convinced it's worthwhile.
Lightning Helix likely deserves a slot. You pay in enough life via your lands alone to want to regain some life, and it's a fairly efficient bolt.
Devastating Summons is one of those cards you want to run a set or nearly that many for game one, and then seriously consider siding it out for game 2 and/or 3.
I have to admit, I was very partial to Ranger of Eos, Earthquake, and Elspeth, Knight-Errant back in the day. And more recently the now banned Stoneforge Mystic and package. So I suspect cheap & efficient burn as replacements might be better, essentially turning white into a splash.
And if not, then cards like Serra Avenger and a heavier focus on white deserve consideration.
I am glad this deck is working well for you, Argetlam...it should be fairly consistent against all the meta decks (no less than 50/50 with all of them).
Korlithiel, thanks for your suggestions. I will say this in defense of Magma Jet: I most frequently use it late game (turn 3, 4 or 5) when I need a land card off the top for the win. Nothing is more frustrating then having your opponent at less then 10 life, having 1-2 Steppe Lynxes/Geopedes on the board (or a nearly active Zektar Shrine) and not being able to see land for the win. On my upkeep, I Magma Jet them to the face and then Scry to ensure I draw my land. It has been a life-saver several times.
So after more playtesting/tournament play, I have made the above changes to my mainboard. Seering Blaze got replaced by Shard Volley.
There were some occassions when I had Blaze in hand against Combo and was never able to deal the last 3 damage b/c I either didn't have 2 mana open or they didn't have a creature on the board. Shard Volley has amazing synergy as it can be played after blockers before damage to trigger additional landfall and effectively deal 5 additional damage (3 to the face and 2 from sacking Flagstones of Trokair). I also added Adverturing Gear. I am not completely convinced yet, but it is super cheap and super aggressive. I would definately side it out against any deck with a significant amount of removal, though, to avoid the pseudo-"two-for-one".
This is my current list. What are the best ways to beat zoo? Also what is the best way to deal with martyr proc? Do we just lose to it lol. Based off of brozek deck wins. Next problem I face is how bad Searing Blaze is against storm. It is a beast against zoo, and most control decks run snapcaster so it isn't all too dead against them. I'm also not sure on canonist in my board against storm becase they will likely bring removal in against me.
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
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Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Out of interest why is everyone else skimping out on Jotun Grunt.. Sure its not as fast but it's a 4/4 that does a pretty good job of laying the beatdown??
Because it will more than likely swing once then die. Also your never going to want to see it early since we don't have many graveyard based decks to feed the giant.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
I was thinking about it, but they run all sorts of hate for it main deck so I don't think it is really a good idea. We just need some way to disrupt proclamation of rebirth. Or we can hope that they don't see the maytr or the proc before we win....
I would also side in some Duergar Hedge-Mage to deal with leyline of sanctity.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
I took apart my zoo deck after nactl got banned and came up with this build. I like it better than my old dark zoo deck. I would appreciate some advice on how to fine tune it.
We run 8 fetchlands and Ghost Quarter, plus many burn spells. If you don't have cards in your graveyard then something's wrong.
I still don't think he is warranted as a 4-of necessarily, I'd probably test him at 2 because I doubt I'd like to open multiples and consider moving up to 3 if I felt it was that good and not terrible in multiples. Chances are that he will make it through 2 upkeeps most of the time because you will possibly fuel 1 upkeep through lands alone, and with a deck like this you really just need for there to be 2 cards in your opponent's graveyard by turn 4 for the 2nd upkeep, if there aren't then they'll probably lose because they didn't play any spells or creatures you could burn. He probably won't make 3 upkeeps in most circumstances but he doesn't really need to.
Don't u guys think knights of the reliquary is a better choice for such a deck with so many lands going to your graveyard? I've noticed from testing that she is consistently at least a 6/6 or sometimes even 7/7 on average by the time she attacks. I find that she is the best creature in the whole deck according to my experience. Being able to tutor ghost quarters and flagstones goes a long way in boosting her and all your landfall creatures. I personally think she is too good to not include in the deck and I splash green just for her and also being able to sideboard better cards. Even lavamancers become a greater threat since you are consistently dumping fodder in the graveyard. Grunt is really sub par compared to her. let me know what u guys think and what u come across from testing it out. I played a couple of zoo decks yesterday and she single handedly allowed me to dominate the games since their goyfs and knights were tiny compared to my knight due to the sheer number of lands this deck puts into the graveyard. I was laughing every time I drew her in top deck mode. I'm glad now that nactl got banned cuz it made me switch to the landfall variant and it seems a lot better this way.
KotR is an absolute house, the decision is really do I splash for green but with so many fetch lands that shouldn't be a problem at all, naya landfall is probably better now that I think about how synergy KotR has with the deck.
If i were to add KotR then i'd be dropping grim lavamancer, which i am unsure of anyhow.
It's certainly worth testing.
Just replace the grunts with KotR. They are way better anyways. Your lavamancers are just 1/1 for 1 mana when u sack your graveyard with the grunts which never last long enough to really do much. At least with the knights u have better late game and they are amazing against goyfs which are in so many modern decks now. Personally I think KotR is the best creature in modern right now in terms of being a fatty. Problem with boros landfall is that once u run out of landfall then all you got is a bunch of weeny creatures that are chump blockers. Zoo would own boros without the KotR's. At times I was left with steppe lynx to chump block with due to no landfall. At least with KotR you can trigger landfall and your otherwise useless lynx and geopede become threats again. It really puts pressure on your opponent. When u play against zoo just side out your lavamancers and add a few kitchen finks and there is no way in hell zoo will beat u unless u draw a crappy hand. This deck is explosive enough that by turn three when your knights are coming down your opponent is already at half life or even lower. When the KotR comes down they are really stressing unless they have an answer and if u get elspeth turn 4 then its game over for them. Try testing it and I'm sure u wont be disappointed. Steppe lynx is very good for usually turns 2 and 3. After that they are useless due to not consistently having landfall triggers. By turn three you have knights down and u know the rest.
I don't recommend running grunt alongside KotR main decked, they could clash with each other. Grunt will either not last long or eat away at your knight's strength. I would definitely keep a couple in the side though for match ups where grunt is good because then eating your opponent's grave yard will serve a good purpose as well. Also I noticed you are running onslaught fetch lands in your deck bambam. They aren't legal in modern.
Ages ago, I played a Boros Landfall deck with Greater Gargadon. I ran Mogg War Marshal with it, but even if you don't want to go that far, it has synergy with things like Keldon Marauders, Hellspark Elemental, and Zektar Shrine Expedition too, as well as the key synergy of allowing you to crack Flagstones at will for landfall triggers. Plus, you know, the ability to 9/7 out of nowhere.
Probably janky and unnecessary, but I figured I'd mention it in case someone else wants to give it a go.
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Could clash is the point, but they don't have to. It's down to how you play.
I've seen a very succesful deck mainboarding Grunt alongside Snapcaster Mage.
It just requires thought and planning.
I highly suggest you atleast do some testing with grunt. If you lot aren't even willing to test then discussion is pointless.
Who said I wasn't willing to test, every test has to start somewhere. I've gathered that you swear by Jotun, and in my own experience he is good. My prediction is that he is less useful alongside knight of the reliquary. He can be main decked alongside knight, but only if his cumulative upkeep is really useful against a vast majority of the decks in your meta. He doesn't have synergy with knight of the reliquary, and unlike with the snapcaster mage example knight is actually doing grunt's job except better without killing himself. Jotun can be useful against zoo because they run so much removal that dropping him mid game to weaken their fatties can be nice, but he probably won't be as crucial when we are making fatter KotR than them. I suppose he can be ran in small numbers main decked because he can be good mid game even in a green splash, but i'd likely still have most if not all of my copies in the side.
I don't recommend running grunt alongside KotR main decked, they could clash with each other. Grunt will either not last long or eat away at your knight's strength. I would definitely keep a couple in the side though for match ups where grunt is good because then eating your opponent's grave yard will serve a good purpose as well. Also I noticed you are running onslaught fetch lands in your deck bambam. They aren't legal in modern.
Thanks for pointing that out. I will adjust the land base shortly. I hadn't noticed. I was thinking of splashing black in there for dark confidants since the deck uses so many fetches anyways. I wonder how it would work. 4 color zoo was working fine for me so it might work. will have to test it. this deck empties your hand quick and confidant might not be a bad idea since it's pretty aggro anyways and the mana curve is low enough
I have been considering Confidant. However, there is one problem I have been thinking about. 4 color Zoo can get away with it as it also runs things like goyf and KotR providing a strong mid game. Meanwhile, this deck is more in the extremely fast sligh role with cards like lynx and geopede. I question whether confidant would slow down the deck too much. At least, I assume, that's the reason the worlds Rb lists didn't run confidant. To accommodate confidant, the list would have to be kind of different from the normal build.
Also, once you start throwing a green splash and KotR in there is zero reason to not be running Zoo.
I have been considering Confidant. However, there is one problem I have been thinking about. 4 color Zoo can get away with it as it also runs things like goyf and KotR providing a strong mid game. Meanwhile, this deck is more in the extremely fast sligh role with cards like lynx and geopede. I question whether confidant would slow down the deck too much. At least, I assume, that's the reason the worlds Rb lists didn't run confidant. To accommodate confidant, the list would have to be kind of different from the normal build.
Also, once you start throwing a green splash and KotR in there is zero reason to not be running Zoo.
I guess it would be kinda a budget zoo, the reason would be $360 and that belongs in the budget section of zoo, but not for this deck, it's a fair reason for anyone who can't drop the price of a laptop on cards, I can adjust this deck in order to test knight at zero cost to myself, I have the cards. If adding the 3rd color wouldn't slow the deck down, then there are reasons knight has synergy with the deck. He also doesn't kill himself like Jotun grunt, and usually comes down as strong as Jotun, but he'll only get stronger while strengthening your critters. If you think that it would just slow the deck down and do more harm than good then that is a legitimate criticism and testing may show the same, if you say that it doesn't matter whether it can strengthen the deck because zoo is better, then you kinda invalidate the deck as a whole.
I guess it would be kinda a budget zoo, the reason would be $360 and that belongs in the budget section of zoo, but not for this deck, it's a fair reason for anyone who can't drop the price of a laptop on cards, I can adjust this deck in order to test knight at zero cost to myself, I have the cards. If adding the 3rd color wouldn't slow the deck down, then there are reasons knight has synergy with the deck. He also doesn't kill himself like Jotun grunt, and usually comes down as strong as Jotun, but he'll only get stronger while strengthening your critters. If you think that it would just slow the deck down and do more harm than good then that is a legitimate criticism and testing may show the same, if you say that it doesn't matter whether it can strengthen the deck because zoo is better, then you kinda invalidate the deck as a whole.
Sorry, I guess I wasn't very clear in my last post. What I meant was by adding green and KotR, yes you slow down the "normal" version of Boros. KotR doesn't come down until turn three and can't do anything until turn four, kind of clashing with the win as fast a possible theme of goblin guide, lynx, etc. Plus, once you add green you really should be adding goyf at which point your playing zoo.
Now, can two color boros or Rwb Boros exist and do well? Yes, I believe it can. However, I think it must use a slightly different gameplay to zoo as zoo has the same burn and removal but better creatures. I see a couple options. One is a really fast sligh build perhaps with tons of burn to just race everything with things like Zektar Shrine Expedition, Adventuring Gear, or Devastating Summons. Another is to abuse some detail about the deck to give you an advantage. For example, if you only use two colors you can run Blood Moon main. A final option is to try and take advantage of things that Zoo either can't or doesn't want to. Things like Jotun Grunt hitting their grave, Countryside Crusher and maybe a way to abuse it (Feeding Jotun Grunt or Grim Lavamancer forever?), Ranger of Eos/Proclamation of Rebirth tricks, or some black cards that 4 color zoo either can't use or fit. If Boros can't do something to set it apart, then there is no reason to run it over zoo. I will be doing some testing tomorrow so I will post what I discover.
Sorry, I guess I wasn't very clear in my last post. What I meant was by adding green and KotR, yes you slow down the "normal" version of Boros. KotR doesn't come down until turn three and can't do anything until turn four, kind of clashing with the win as fast a possible theme of goblin guide, lynx, etc. Plus, once you add green you really should be adding goyf at which point your playing zoo.
Now, can two color boros or Rwb Boros exist and do well? Yes, I believe it can. However, I think it must use a slightly different gameplay to zoo as zoo has the same burn and removal but better creatures. I see a couple options. One is a really fast sligh build perhaps with tons of burn to just race everything with things like Zektar Shrine Expedition, Adventuring Gear, or Devastating Summons. Another is to abuse some detail about the deck to give you an advantage. For example, if you only use two colors you can run Blood Moon main. A final option is to try and take advantage of things that Zoo either can't or doesn't want to. Things like Jotun Grunt hitting their grave, Countryside Crusher and maybe a way to abuse it (Feeding Jotun Grunt or Grim Lavamancer forever?), Ranger of Eos/Proclamation of Rebirth tricks, or some black cards that 4 color zoo either can't use or fit. If Boros can't do something to set it apart, then there is no reason to run it over zoo. I will be doing some testing tomorrow so I will post what I discover.
I beg to differ with your opinion though lets talk about confidant before going into that. I tried to play with the mana base and confidant does not work. 4 color does not work for this deck even though it works for zoo due to the 4 flagstones and ghost quarters taking up land slots. confidants don't slow the deck down. Either you splash green for KtOR or black for confidant. Deck cant support mana base for both. Dark confidant is actually awesome since it has a decent body and if it sticks then you know the rest ( also the mana curve is pretty low for this deck ). Now coming to the zoo vs boros splashing green deck. I played zoo in modern for a few months and know it pretty well since one third of my meta is zoo, I have had a lot of mirror matches. Nactl is gone. Kird apes and loam lions are weeny 2/3's that can easily be burned off and even if you don't and they attack you with it then they leave them self open for possibly insane damage from landfall. Zoo will usually end up using all its burn against your steppe lynx and plated geopedes and at times even use their path to exiles. This leaves as goyfs and knights as the main threats. Their goyfs and knights will NEVER be as big as yours (I have yet to play a single game where that was not the case) and if they are not holding a path then they will be hurting. Boros splashing KtOR is explosive enough and resilient enough to overpower zoo and if u side in kitchen finks with your lavamancers against zoo then they are at a disadvantage. I'm only saying this after many hours of testing. I will keep testing and encourage you all to do the same and see what u come up with. Also would you rather have a 4/4 white creature that can come down turn two though wont last to do much or would you rather slam down a creature that will be much bigger on turn 3? 10 to 12 fetchlands, 4 ghost quarters, 4 flagstones, accumulate in your graveyard quick. I played one game when the game went long and my knight was 11/11.....its not gonna happen like that for zoo.
I beg to differ with your opinion though lets talk about confidant before going into that. I tried to play with the mana base and confidant does not work. 4 color does not work for this deck even though it works for zoo due to the 4 flagstones and ghost quarters taking up land slots. confidants don't slow the deck down. Either you splash green for KtOR or black for confidant. Deck cant support mana base for both. Dark confidant is actually awesome since it has a decent body and if it sticks then you know the rest ( also the mana curve is pretty low for this deck ). Now coming to the zoo vs boros splashing green deck. I played zoo in modern for a few months and know it pretty well since one third of my meta is zoo, I have had a lot of mirror matches. Nactl is gone. Kird apes and loam lions are weeny 2/3's that can easily be burned off and even if you don't and they attack you with it then they leave them self open for possibly insane damage from landfall. Zoo will usually end up using all its burn against your steppe lynx and plated geopedes and at times even use their path to exiles. This leaves as goyfs and knights as the main threats. Their goyfs and knights will NEVER be as big as yours (I have yet to play a single game where that was not the case) and if they are not holding a path then they will be hurting. Boros splashing KtOR is explosive enough and resilient enough to overpower zoo and if u side in kitchen finks with your lavamancers against zoo then they are at a disadvantage. I'm only saying this after many hours of testing. I will keep testing and encourage you all to do the same and see what u come up with. Also would you rather have a 4/4 white creature that can come down turn two though wont last to do much or would you rather slam down a creature that will be much bigger on turn 3? 10 to 12 fetchlands, 4 ghost quarters, 4 flagstones, accumulate in your graveyard quick. I played one game when the game went long and my knight was 11/11.....its not gonna happen like that for zoo.
First, I agree, 4c Boros doesn't work. Manabase won't allow it. You have to choose black or green. Second, I took a look at your list on the first page. I am still confused about one thing. Once you splash green, how do you justify not running goyf? I guess that is the whole point of my post. Is there a reason to not run goyf or is it better to just run goyf and pretty much play a landfall heavy zoo?
3x Boros Bushwhacker
4x Steppe Lynx
4x Plated Geopede
4x Goblin Guide
4x Keldon Marauders
4x Zektar Shrine Expedition
Sorceries: 2
2x Devastating Summons
Instants: 11
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Magma Jet
4x Searing Blaze
4x Flagstones of Trokair
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Marsh Flats
4x Arid Mesa
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Mountains
2x Plains
I created this thread for those who love Boros and are committed to making it teir one in Modern. The above list is the one I've been working on for a few weeks. I love Zektar Shrine and feel it should be a staple. I also really like Keldon Marauders and Magma Jet, though they are not commonly played in Boros.
I am iffy on Devastating Summons. It definately has won a few games with a kicked Bushwhacker and it has great synergy with Flagstones, but sometimes I would rather have any other card in my hand.
I am interested in opinions on this build.
boros in modern???...Boros in Modern!The cards I dislike that your using:
Magma Jet - I would almost rather run Needle Drop as it replaces itself for one less mana, and it's rare that you aren't as pleased to see a land as anything else. Simply, I'm not wholly convinced it's worthwhile.
Lightning Helix likely deserves a slot. You pay in enough life via your lands alone to want to regain some life, and it's a fairly efficient bolt.
Devastating Summons is one of those cards you want to run a set or nearly that many for game one, and then seriously consider siding it out for game 2 and/or 3.
I have to admit, I was very partial to Ranger of Eos, Earthquake, and Elspeth, Knight-Errant back in the day. And more recently the now banned Stoneforge Mystic and package. So I suspect cheap & efficient burn as replacements might be better, essentially turning white into a splash.
And if not, then cards like Serra Avenger and a heavier focus on white deserve consideration.
The only trouble I've had has been people bolting a geopede/lynx before they get hit with it. Hard removal sucks too.
Korlithiel, thanks for your suggestions. I will say this in defense of Magma Jet: I most frequently use it late game (turn 3, 4 or 5) when I need a land card off the top for the win. Nothing is more frustrating then having your opponent at less then 10 life, having 1-2 Steppe Lynxes/Geopedes on the board (or a nearly active Zektar Shrine) and not being able to see land for the win. On my upkeep, I Magma Jet them to the face and then Scry to ensure I draw my land. It has been a life-saver several times.
4x Smash to Smithereens
3x Blood Moon
4x Ethersworn Canonist
4x Combust
I am curious regarding what you all feel about Boros sideboarding. This is my current list. Smash to Smithereens is there for Affinity, Blood Moon
for 12 Post, Combust for Splinter Twin and Ethersworn Canonist for Combo.
4x Goblin Guide
4x Steppe Lynx
4x Plated Geopede
4x Keldon Marauders
2x Goblin Bushwhacker
Enchantments: 4
4x Zektar Shrine Expedition
2x Adventuring Gear
Instants: 10
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Shard Volley
3x Magma Jet
Sorceries: 2
2x Devastating Summons
Land: 24
4x Arid Mesa
4x Scalding Tarns
4x Marsh Flats
4x Flagstones of Trokair
2x Ghost Quarters
3x Sacred Foundary
2x Mountains
1x Plains
So after more playtesting/tournament play, I have made the above changes to my mainboard. Seering Blaze got replaced by Shard Volley.
There were some occassions when I had Blaze in hand against Combo and was never able to deal the last 3 damage b/c I either didn't have 2 mana open or they didn't have a creature on the board. Shard Volley has amazing synergy as it can be played after blockers before damage to trigger additional landfall and effectively deal 5 additional damage (3 to the face and 2 from sacking Flagstones of Trokair). I also added Adverturing Gear. I am not completely convinced yet, but it is super cheap and super aggressive. I would definately side it out against any deck with a significant amount of removal, though, to avoid the pseudo-"two-for-one".
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Goblin Guide
4 Plated Geopede
1 Jötun Grunt
[24 other spells]
4 Zektar Shrine Expedition
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Searing Blaze
3 Path to Exile
3 Shard Volley
2 Magma Jet
4 Arid Mesa
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Sacred Foundry
3 Mountain
1 Plains
3 Duergar Hedge-Mage
3 x
2 Dismember/combust
4 leyline of sanctity
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Jötun Grunt
Basic sideboard plans are as follows(for now) still somewhat incomplete.
Zoo
+ 1 1 Jötun Grunt
- 1 something
Affinity
+ 2 Smash to Smithereens
+ 3 Duergar Hedge-Mage
- 1 Jötun Grunt
- 4 Zektar Shrine Expedition
Twin(still working on this match up. It isn't too weak, but I don't think it is favorable)
+ 2 dismember/combust
- 1 Jötun Grunt
- 1 searing blaze
Teachings/gifts
Nothing
Storm
+ 4 leyline of sanctity
- 4 Searing Blaze
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Thomas Jefferson
Because it will more than likely swing once then die. Also your never going to want to see it early since we don't have many graveyard based decks to feed the giant.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
I was thinking about it, but they run all sorts of hate for it main deck so I don't think it is really a good idea. We just need some way to disrupt proclamation of rebirth. Or we can hope that they don't see the maytr or the proc before we win....
I would also side in some Duergar Hedge-Mage to deal with leyline of sanctity.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
4 goblin guide
4 steppe lynx
4 plated geopede
4 knights of the reliquary
3 grim lavamancer
1 elspeth knight errant
4 lightning bolt
4 path to exile
4 lightning helix
4 flagstone of trokair
4 ghost quarter
4 arid mesa
4 verdant catacombs
2 marsh flats
1 sacred foundry
1 stomping ground
1 temple garden
2 plains
1 forest
1 mountain
2 gaddock teeg
2 quasali pridemage
2 ethersworn canonist
2 kitchen finks
2 tormod's crypt
2 pithing needle
2 krosan grip
1 nevermore
I still don't think he is warranted as a 4-of necessarily, I'd probably test him at 2 because I doubt I'd like to open multiples and consider moving up to 3 if I felt it was that good and not terrible in multiples. Chances are that he will make it through 2 upkeeps most of the time because you will possibly fuel 1 upkeep through lands alone, and with a deck like this you really just need for there to be 2 cards in your opponent's graveyard by turn 4 for the 2nd upkeep, if there aren't then they'll probably lose because they didn't play any spells or creatures you could burn. He probably won't make 3 upkeeps in most circumstances but he doesn't really need to.
Just replace the grunts with KotR. They are way better anyways. Your lavamancers are just 1/1 for 1 mana when u sack your graveyard with the grunts which never last long enough to really do much. At least with the knights u have better late game and they are amazing against goyfs which are in so many modern decks now. Personally I think KotR is the best creature in modern right now in terms of being a fatty. Problem with boros landfall is that once u run out of landfall then all you got is a bunch of weeny creatures that are chump blockers. Zoo would own boros without the KotR's. At times I was left with steppe lynx to chump block with due to no landfall. At least with KotR you can trigger landfall and your otherwise useless lynx and geopede become threats again. It really puts pressure on your opponent. When u play against zoo just side out your lavamancers and add a few kitchen finks and there is no way in hell zoo will beat u unless u draw a crappy hand. This deck is explosive enough that by turn three when your knights are coming down your opponent is already at half life or even lower. When the KotR comes down they are really stressing unless they have an answer and if u get elspeth turn 4 then its game over for them. Try testing it and I'm sure u wont be disappointed. Steppe lynx is very good for usually turns 2 and 3. After that they are useless due to not consistently having landfall triggers. By turn three you have knights down and u know the rest.
Probably janky and unnecessary, but I figured I'd mention it in case someone else wants to give it a go.
Who said I wasn't willing to test, every test has to start somewhere. I've gathered that you swear by Jotun, and in my own experience he is good. My prediction is that he is less useful alongside knight of the reliquary. He can be main decked alongside knight, but only if his cumulative upkeep is really useful against a vast majority of the decks in your meta. He doesn't have synergy with knight of the reliquary, and unlike with the snapcaster mage example knight is actually doing grunt's job except better without killing himself. Jotun can be useful against zoo because they run so much removal that dropping him mid game to weaken their fatties can be nice, but he probably won't be as crucial when we are making fatter KotR than them. I suppose he can be ran in small numbers main decked because he can be good mid game even in a green splash, but i'd likely still have most if not all of my copies in the side.
Thanks for pointing that out. I will adjust the land base shortly. I hadn't noticed. I was thinking of splashing black in there for dark confidants since the deck uses so many fetches anyways. I wonder how it would work. 4 color zoo was working fine for me so it might work. will have to test it. this deck empties your hand quick and confidant might not be a bad idea since it's pretty aggro anyways and the mana curve is low enough
Also, once you start throwing a green splash and KotR in there is zero reason to not be running Zoo.
I guess it would be kinda a budget zoo, the reason would be $360 and that belongs in the budget section of zoo, but not for this deck, it's a fair reason for anyone who can't drop the price of a laptop on cards, I can adjust this deck in order to test knight at zero cost to myself, I have the cards. If adding the 3rd color wouldn't slow the deck down, then there are reasons knight has synergy with the deck. He also doesn't kill himself like Jotun grunt, and usually comes down as strong as Jotun, but he'll only get stronger while strengthening your critters. If you think that it would just slow the deck down and do more harm than good then that is a legitimate criticism and testing may show the same, if you say that it doesn't matter whether it can strengthen the deck because zoo is better, then you kinda invalidate the deck as a whole.
Sorry, I guess I wasn't very clear in my last post. What I meant was by adding green and KotR, yes you slow down the "normal" version of Boros. KotR doesn't come down until turn three and can't do anything until turn four, kind of clashing with the win as fast a possible theme of goblin guide, lynx, etc. Plus, once you add green you really should be adding goyf at which point your playing zoo.
Now, can two color boros or Rwb Boros exist and do well? Yes, I believe it can. However, I think it must use a slightly different gameplay to zoo as zoo has the same burn and removal but better creatures. I see a couple options. One is a really fast sligh build perhaps with tons of burn to just race everything with things like Zektar Shrine Expedition, Adventuring Gear, or Devastating Summons. Another is to abuse some detail about the deck to give you an advantage. For example, if you only use two colors you can run Blood Moon main. A final option is to try and take advantage of things that Zoo either can't or doesn't want to. Things like Jotun Grunt hitting their grave, Countryside Crusher and maybe a way to abuse it (Feeding Jotun Grunt or Grim Lavamancer forever?), Ranger of Eos/Proclamation of Rebirth tricks, or some black cards that 4 color zoo either can't use or fit. If Boros can't do something to set it apart, then there is no reason to run it over zoo. I will be doing some testing tomorrow so I will post what I discover.
I beg to differ with your opinion though lets talk about confidant before going into that. I tried to play with the mana base and confidant does not work. 4 color does not work for this deck even though it works for zoo due to the 4 flagstones and ghost quarters taking up land slots. confidants don't slow the deck down. Either you splash green for KtOR or black for confidant. Deck cant support mana base for both. Dark confidant is actually awesome since it has a decent body and if it sticks then you know the rest ( also the mana curve is pretty low for this deck ). Now coming to the zoo vs boros splashing green deck. I played zoo in modern for a few months and know it pretty well since one third of my meta is zoo, I have had a lot of mirror matches. Nactl is gone. Kird apes and loam lions are weeny 2/3's that can easily be burned off and even if you don't and they attack you with it then they leave them self open for possibly insane damage from landfall. Zoo will usually end up using all its burn against your steppe lynx and plated geopedes and at times even use their path to exiles. This leaves as goyfs and knights as the main threats. Their goyfs and knights will NEVER be as big as yours (I have yet to play a single game where that was not the case) and if they are not holding a path then they will be hurting. Boros splashing KtOR is explosive enough and resilient enough to overpower zoo and if u side in kitchen finks with your lavamancers against zoo then they are at a disadvantage. I'm only saying this after many hours of testing. I will keep testing and encourage you all to do the same and see what u come up with. Also would you rather have a 4/4 white creature that can come down turn two though wont last to do much or would you rather slam down a creature that will be much bigger on turn 3? 10 to 12 fetchlands, 4 ghost quarters, 4 flagstones, accumulate in your graveyard quick. I played one game when the game went long and my knight was 11/11.....its not gonna happen like that for zoo.
First, I agree, 4c Boros doesn't work. Manabase won't allow it. You have to choose black or green. Second, I took a look at your list on the first page. I am still confused about one thing. Once you splash green, how do you justify not running goyf? I guess that is the whole point of my post. Is there a reason to not run goyf or is it better to just run goyf and pretty much play a landfall heavy zoo?