Scrolling down past the Multi-colored cards you can find the artifacts, were we get a few decent ones.
A few that stand out are Inquisitors flail (equipped creature deals double damage, and creatures deal double damage to it) and Trepenation blade (when the creature attacks the opponent reveals cards from the top of his or her library until they get a land card. Equipped creature gets +x/+0 for each card revealed this way, then they put the revealed cards in the graveyard.) Obviously it is a double edged sword as some decks want cards in the graveyard, at the same time you could end up swinging for a whole lot of damage, so who knows.
I think with the loss of Basilisk collar we are going to want to change the deck somewhat. While mortarpod alone is still very nice, I think if we want to go a more WW route we can get rid of mortarpod and basilisk collar, as well as the trinket mages, and most of the other blue cards, and add in some of the equipment that gets bonuses on humans, as well as some of the new White human cards.
Champion of the parish, Elite Inquisitor, and mentor of the meek are all pretty good cards, that could synergize well with some changes to the deck. Mikeaus the lunarch could also be nice, especially if you go mono-WW, and change the deck around some.
Lastly if you want to keep the deck more in line with what it has been I think blue adds in some nice cards that will be pretty good. Mindshrieker and Invisible Stalker are both great cards, that could carry our equipment quite well. Anyway it is late and I have a test in the morning, but i will try and post a post-rotation list tomorrow.
Scrolling down past the Multi-colored cards you can find the artifacts, were we get a few decent ones.
A few that stand out are Inquisitors flail (equipped creature deals double damage, and creatures deal double damage to it) and Trepenation blade (when the creature attacks the opponent reveals cards from the top of his or her library until they get a land card. Equipped creature gets +x/+0 for each card revealed this way, then they put the revealed cards in the graveyard.) Obviously it is a double edged sword as some decks want cards in the graveyard, at the same time you could end up swinging for a whole lot of damage, so who knows.
I think with the loss of Basilisk collar we are going to want to change the deck somewhat. While mortarpod alone is still very nice, I think if we want to go a more WW route we can get rid of mortarpod and basilisk collar, as well as the trinket mages, and most of the other blue cards, and add in some of the equipment that gets bonuses on humans, as well as some of the new White human cards.
Champion of the parish, Elite Inquisitor, and mentor of the meek are all pretty good cards, that could synergize well with some changes to the deck. Mikeaus the lunarch could also be nice, especially if you go mono-WW, and change the deck around some.
Lastly if you want to keep the deck more in line with what it has been I think blue adds in some nice cards that will be pretty good. Mindshrieker and Invisible Stalker are both great cards, that could carry our equipment quite well. Anyway it is late and I have a test in the morning, but i will try and post a post-rotation list tomorrow.
Aw man we just lost the good infos we shared in devcomp. Good job on opening a thread though, GreatWhiteColey. I still think we can manage after the loss of Basilisk Collar. Alot of potential cards though. Since Innistrad lets us access other good colors than U, its nice to see people brew other versions. For sure the new DoJ card (forgot the name) will be in my deck, as well as Invisible Stalker and a possible Elite Inquisitor, of course including the 1WU legendary creature. Just too good to be in our deck! (even the 1UU fliers have potential in our deck, Glint Hawks can finally serve its purpose)
Another note on our equipment is the possible use of Nim Deathmantle since it zombifies your creature. A good interaction for playing puresteel zombie.
Please don't make crap up. This is such an obvious word vomit it's ridiculous. Something about the internet and people thinking they need to say something to fit in..
I will be trying the trepanation blade because it seems to have ridiculous potential with Inkmoth and Crusader (Random, but maybe the 'risk' is worth trying to get a lot of poison counters in one swing?), as mentioned by wie Inquisitor's Flail sounds very good to try as well; I will also be trying out Mentor of the Meek (Possibly replacing Trinket Mage+Collar+?) because having two card draw engines is ridiculously tempting not to try.
Invisible stalker is also an "obvious" inclusion (If you're playing UW of course) with the loss of Squadron Hawk; the other potential 3 drop to try instead of Mentor is the one that exiles a creature when it enters the board.
I could also see a reason to try an alternate control style deck with the use of the new +X/+0 equipment for each sorcery/instant in the graveyard.
To be honest the only issue I see with Innistrad is that our Puresteel deck might no longer be one of the more 'fun' and considerably competitive decks to play.
Graveyard interaction's fun, but the whole idea just fails to a simple Nihil Spellbomb. So I still think puresteel will see play in competitve because of Invisible Stalker. No deck could abuse hexproof/unblockable with sworded hits than our deck, and addition to SB = Nihil Spellbomb/Mirran Crusaders
Sad, we lost Kor Firewalker.
I was enjoying a game of red today, beating the crap out of them using firewalker. Im going to miss that guy.
Please don't make crap up. This is such an obvious word vomit it's ridiculous. Something about the internet and people thinking they need to say something to fit in..
I think the only way to make puresteel work now is white weenie + equipment. The blue adds very little now that trinket mage can't get collar. Blue splash may potentially still work for geist of saint traft and trinket mage, but the blue definitely brings less to the table now, since ponder is worse than preordain for this deck.
We could still play a little bit of control. The deck won't just die with a loss of a single card. Either way, if collar got reprinted, we won't stand a chance against a horde of token zombies anyway. Solution? Wrath effect - the new one. I reeeaaally cannot recall the card's name.
We lost preordain, so did the other guy. Deal with it. We're still fortunate enough to get diggers, right? So I still won't say the deck becomes sub-par compared to the new theme Innistrad brings.
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Not sure if this card is gonna get banned sooner or maybe later...
Please don't make crap up. This is such an obvious word vomit it's ridiculous. Something about the internet and people thinking they need to say something to fit in..
Let's keep it positive guys. We're all on the same side here.
That said, I think I'm going to disagree with the conventional wisdom here and say that the blue splash is no less important than it ever was. Here's my reasoning:
I dislike most of the equipment that people have been tossing around so far in this thread, to be honest. First, T-Blade is extremely random, and will almost never amount to more than 2-3 cards milled into the graveyard. You could mill something with flashback, or a Skaab, and give their deck virtual card advantage. I don't like it's lack of consistency, it's mana cost, or really anything about it. INquisitor's flail has more potential, but most of our creatures are fairly small to begin with, and I wouldn't want to run multiples - the list is tight enough on non-creature equipment as is.
I do, however, like the silver-inlaid dagger. Adding three power for two mana (on almost all our relevant creatures) seems like a good deal, especially when we can fetch with trinket mage and therefore only run 1, while still making sure that we can get it when needed. Mirran Crusader swings for 10 with the dagger, and that's extremely threatening as a turn 6, two card kill. (t3 mirran crusader, t4 dagger and equip, Swing for 10. t6 swing for 10.) Minimal mana investment for great return is going to help us a lot, especially since we'll be drawing cards nonstop.
I'll be posting my list shortly, after I've written it up.
What I think is the direction we should take this deck is UW, still utilizing trinket mage, while veering away from Etched Champion towards Mirran Crusader and Mentor of the Meek. Running Mentor gives us, draw engines 5-8, which will make it much more difficult for our opponants to keep them off the field, and increase consistency.
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First of all, I can deal with it, I wasn't complaining, it is demonstrable that preordain is better than ponder when you don't have shuffle effects.
I never said the deck becomes sub-par, I just think the blue doesn't add enough value to warrant the now more difficult splash. (colonnade gone means a couple less blue-lands, and this deck can't really run more than 1 island).
I don't know what horde of zombie tokens you are talking about, but collar was a pivotal card for this deck, make no mistake, it is a big loss. Just saying that you don't mind doesn't change the quality of the new card pool, which definitely didn't add much useful stuff for this deck.
I didn't say you said that the deck becomes sub-par. It was my own opinion. Sorry for the confusion.
I would like to point out what other option our deck have in this next block (IMO):
1) Access to other colors, we may be flooded with equipments but that doesn't mean we can't run good spells that the other colors run (black/green has some) WBU, what's not to love?
2) Interaction with equipments from MBS particularly Bonehoard. They love their graveyard, we do too. (don't forget about Darksteel Plate)
3) Tramplers. U and W tramplers is just so good to be true.
4) Trinket Mage is yay-nay here. Either it fetches moxen or just a cute accorder's shield. Or replace it with other good cards. Personally, I'd run some Cryptoplasm
5) Snapcaster Mage may have a place in our deck if we play mid-control. Meaning, spells, spells, and more spells.
6) Mortarpod can still see play but with a common P/T of 2/2s, I'd doubt we'd use it since we lose collar. I'd play Disperse if I'm playing U instead.
7) Neo-Boros version. Jor-kadeen's time to shine (or not)
8) More Swords of X & Y?
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Not sure if this card is gonna get banned sooner or maybe later...
Please don't make crap up. This is such an obvious word vomit it's ridiculous. Something about the internet and people thinking they need to say something to fit in..
My List at the moment, but I think it's more or less final. Not including a sideboard, because I want to see how the deck runs a bit without it, and find out what I'm weak against g1.
There is some argument for Invisible Stalker or Etched Champion as a 'sword bearer' over Mirran Crusader, and I think those are viable choices as well. Mirran Crusader has just been preforming extremely well. Of the three, I think that the Stalker is the weakest, with Etched Champion and Mirran Crusader both extremely close.
Dispatch/Oblivion ring is close too. I'm not sure if I'd prefer the 3-1 split I have or a 2-2. It'll depend on the number of threatening noncreature permanants. I will likely switch to a 2-2 if Pod, TS, and a number of walker-centric strategies show up.
The Ponders are just fine, and Trinket Mage provides a shuffle effect if needed. I'm considering swapping them for Gitaxian Probe, depending on the prevalance of Dismember and Countermagic in the format.
The one-of Island is so that an opposing ghost quarter can't shut me off a color. I think the deck, despite relying on WW early on, can easily achieve this despite the high number of non-basics.
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For reference, our old Puresteel forum is located here.
Secondly, I am not a real fan of mentor of the meek. For one, his cmc is 3, and secondly his ability cost mana (as compared to Puresteel Paladin). If you add him you will be increasing your deck overall cmc.
I also agree that U may make a larger part of my new deck. I really like invisible stalker, mindshrieker, and curiosity.
I dont really see any new equipment that I [initially/potentially] will be using for my build. If your not playing mirran crusader, the dagger seems meh. Sure you can add new additional humans, but they then push out artifacts. Dont forget that you need a ton of artifacts to achieve metalcraft.
The good news is in this set they only added 5 artifact creatures (none really playable IMO), so Etched Champion can continue to beat down.
As for the post about new artifact hate. I only see Ancient Grudge, Naturalize, and Stony Silence. They are losing naturalize (lol), nature's claim, kor sanctifiers and some other unplayables. Overall it looks to have balanced. And if you are worried about flashback, dont forget that we still have access to surgical extraction
Angry, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on a bunch of points there.
First off, I can see the arguments against mentor, but we already run a pretty solid land base that can easily accomodate 3 drops. Our creatures tend to be on the smaller end as is, and I think mentor is easily going to be a superstar in this deck.
Mindshrieker and Invisible stalker are worth looking at, but curiosity is not. It's a lackluster enchantment that opens you up to 2-1's all the time. If you have it on a stalker, it's a little more forgivable, but even still, he's flimsy and I can see a ton of situations when he'll be dying anyway. He just seems terrible without a sword.
Mentor, Paladin, and Trinket Mage are all humans, as is the stalker. I think that's more than enough humans to be assured of the +3/+0 most of the time, and it's not terrible otherwise.
Stony Silence is pretty painful for our deck. Ancient grudge hurts too, but should only really see play in RG, which might not be an entirely viable deck until DKA or the third set when we get some more werewolves. You also forgot Creeping Corrosion, which is going to see extensive SB play in any deck running green. There's too many artifacts running around for it and Naturalize to not be played.
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Please don't make crap up. This is such an obvious word vomit it's ridiculous. Something about the internet and people thinking they need to say something to fit in..
stony silence doesn't hurt us much. we have very few activated artifact abilities. like, mox and nothing else. I am actually incredibly worried about ancient grudge. running 4 of those can kill 8 artifacts. I think we may have to consider rotating etched champion out of the deck. worst case scenario is indomitable archangel, darksteel plate, and swiftfoot boots.
i think going mono-white will probably be a good idea. u doesn't add much in terms of helping us this time around. yeah, invisible stalker, but one card isn't going to win us the game.
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I speak in sarcasm because calling people ******* ******** is not allowed.
stony silence doesn't hurt us much. we have very few activated artifact abilities. like, mox and nothing else. I am actually incredibly worried about ancient grudge. running 4 of those can kill 8 artifacts. I think we may have to consider rotating etched champion out of the deck. worst case scenario is indomitable archangel, darksteel plate, and swiftfoot boots.
i think going mono-white will probably be a good idea. u doesn't add much in terms of helping us this time around. yeah, invisible stalker, but one card isn't going to win us the game.
You are aware that "Equip" is an activated ability, correct? Our whole deck sort of relies on them. While Nevermore can shut off one artifact, Stony Silence turns off every equip in our deck. While they won't fall off, they will become useless once 'dropped'
Ancient Grudge is problematic, but again, I don't know if there's going to be many decks running R/G. Werewolves is the obvious archetype, but given their lack of any appreciable mythic, and amount of card draw we have, I don't think we should have any trouble keeping them off of 'wolf form' long enough to kill them with swords.
Mana Leak (and general countermagic, for that point) is a possible option, but at least at the start of the block, I'd want to keep it in the board and bring it in once they bring their anti-artifact cards in. I don't see as much in the main that we must-counter.
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You are aware that "Equip" is an activated ability, correct? Our whole deck sort of relies on them. While Nevermore can shut off one artifact, Stony Silence turns off every equip in our deck. While they won't fall off, they will become useless once 'dropped'
Ancient Grudge is problematic, but again, I don't know if there's going to be many decks running R/G. Werewolves is the obvious archetype, but given their lack of any appreciable mythic, and amount of card draw we have, I don't think we should have any trouble keeping them off of 'wolf form' long enough to kill them with swords.
Mana Leak (and general countermagic, for that point) is a possible option, but at least at the start of the block, I'd want to keep it in the board and bring it in once they bring their anti-artifact cards in. I don't see as much in the main that we must-counter.
I agree. Now I think people will come in to consensus of adding counter magics. Negate haters no more?
Honestly, I was building my deck post-rotation so I can still manage against hosers (now enchanments) come Innistrad. (Don't leave Demystify behind, too!)
Please don't make crap up. This is such an obvious word vomit it's ridiculous. Something about the internet and people thinking they need to say something to fit in..
I don't think it is a matter of losing hope. The deck already had a split between uw with trinket mages and more psuedo controllish and a mono white that was a touch more aggro. I think all the rotation has and will do is further define those two archtypes of our deck. You can just as easily stay uw or go ww. The only tool we lost is basilisk collar, but we are gaining considerable others.
stony silence doesn't hurt us much. we have very few activated artifact abilities. like, mox and nothing else.
All equipment have activated abilities in the form of equipping.
702.6a Equip is an activated ability of Equipment cards. “Equip [cost]” means “[Cost]: Attach this Equipment to target creature you control. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.”
Angry, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on a bunch of points there.
First off, I can see the arguments against mentor, but we already run a pretty solid land base that can easily accomodate 3 drops. Our creatures tend to be on the smaller end as is, and I think mentor is easily going to be a superstar in this deck.
I guess I am only looking at the initial 5 or 6 turns where IMO he would hinder us playing stuff. That being said, if the game goes long, then he could be an asset.
Mindshrieker and Invisible stalker are worth looking at, but curiosity is not. It's a lackluster enchantment that opens you up to 2-1's all the time. If you have it on a stalker, it's a little more forgivable, but even still, he's flimsy and I can see a ton of situations when he'll be dying anyway. He just seems terrible without a sword.
Mentor, Paladin, and Trinket Mage are all humans, as is the stalker. I think that's more than enough humans to be assured of the +3/+0 most of the time, and it's not terrible otherwise.
Well, if you add Mentor and/or playing with Mirran Crusader then I could see the benefit, but otherwise I would think that there are better equipment that could be played. Oh and Trinket is played as a 2 of in my build, so he really doesnt bring the count up much.
Stony Silence is pretty painful for our deck. Ancient grudge hurts too, but should only really see play in RG, which might not be an entirely viable deck until DKA or the third set when we get some more werewolves. You also forgot Creeping Corrosion, which is going to see extensive SB play in any deck running green. There's too many artifacts running around for it and Naturalize to not be played.
Side note, what happens if you have parallel lives in play and you drop a mortapod or batterskull? Does a 2nd germ get created? If so, will it just die as they both cannot be equipped to the artifact?
I don't think it is a matter of losing hope. The deck already had a split between uw with trinket mages and more psuedo controllish and a mono white that was a touch more aggro. I think all the rotation has and will do is further define those two archtypes of our deck. You can just as easily stay uw or go ww. The only tool we lost is basilisk collar, but we are gaining considerable others.
Like I said back in DevComp thread, its best to play pseudo-controllish/ pseudo-cawblade (be it UW). Since we usually don't overextend our play, we play control. Since we don't have anything to protect paladin come turn 3, we play control and wait for more lands to drop. Since we want to set up our board while delaying the opponent, its still best to play control. Once we set up our board with a given Sword of X & Y, its almost a lockdown/pressure for the opponent that it is too late for him to recover.
For people playing 2-of Trinket Mages I think they'd still know how to play even Collar/Pod isn't online. I managed winning the game with a few counters and Turn to Frog (God, I love this card) in hand. By that, I wouldn't rely board presence on Pod/Collar alone, tbh.
WORTH READING: I've copy pasted my quotes of Caleb Durward and TheHosecloth regarding our cards, if you haven't read this yet, I suggest you guys read it before throwing problems:
EDIT: I think this comment by TheHosecloth deserves to be on the first page(originally located on 11th page). It basically summarizes the core cards that this deck needs.
1) A proper manabase. Mana is the foundation of all decks, and should be taken just as--if not more--seriously than the actual card choices that affect the board. For one, you need more diversity on color with Seachrome Coast and Celestial Colonnade. I won't insult your intelligence, I'm sure you can gather why these are important. Second, you will need a playset of Inkmoth Nexus. These make metalcraft so much smoother to turn on with just a cost of 1 and allow for an alternate wincon. Third, Mox Opal. I consider this a land simply because it costs nothing and produces mana. In addition to producing extra mana, it also turns on metalcraft--something that this deck loves to do. Try to run two. You could also include more fringe card choices like Halimar Depths and Buried Ruin, but I would never drop the core of the manabase:
2) Casts and Creatures. Believe it or not, these guys aren't the base of the deck, per se. In an odd way, they support the primary gameplan--metalcraft and synergy. In the casts, I would make it paramount to run Preordain. Some lists like three, some lists like four. No matter the list, you need to run it. They make the gameplan so much more consistent by assembling your combo easier due to the three-card dig. I would counsel the removal of Oblivion Ring, for it eats into mana efficiency on our turn. If you want catch-all "removal", run counterspells. In the creatures, you've got the core down, but a lot of unnecessary fluff. The typical formula for the creature base is as follows:
Powerhouses include Etched Champion, Argent Sphinx, Hero of Bladehold, Argent Sphinx, and Kemba, Kha Regent. These are cards that are most powerful in a revved up Paladin Engine due to their resiliency, evasion, and synergy. Sun Titan is far too slow for the deck, and running more than 2 powerhouses starts to eat into other parts of the deck that are more important--even though these cards are quite powerful. Keep this in mind when building.
3) Finally, the heart and soul of the deck--equipment. Here, I would highly suggest more swords, for they are the deck's primary source of power and card advantage. Most lists run five, but there have been as little as four and as much as six in others. Quick aside: Sword of Feast and Famine is the most powerful sword in the deck; Sword of War and Peace is right behind it. Swiftfoot Boots has been a more fringe card, but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt at a one-of. Lastly, make sure you only run 1 Basilisk Collar. We can obtain it consistently with Preordain and Trinket Mage.
Sword of Feast and Famine is the sword of Tempo. The tempo swing the sword brings not only depletes your opponent's resources, thusly grinding them out, but allows us to punish that depletion by accelerating our gameplan into overdrive. A connection with this sword ensures a Time Walk's worth of mana and the negation your opponent's draw step in regard to the quantity of cards in their hand. Not only that, but your manlands have pseudo-vigilance. Due to the massive tempo swing this card provides, it gives our deck an edge versus Midrange strategies.
Sword of War and Peace is the sword of Damage. This is fairly clear to see in it's burn clause. With your opponent at a full grip, this equipment can dish out as much as 11 damage in one swing. The lifegain is also not irrelevant, for we can keep our hand at a healthy stock as well. Due to the accelerated clock, this sword primarily provides an edge versus Control strategies; although the lifegain is less prevalent, it can also provide an edge against Aggro strategies due to the protection colors and healing.
Sword of Body and Mind is the sword of Synergy. With the extra token granted to us from a connection, we can utilize it as more Mortarpod fodder or a defender in the right protection-colored atmosphere. The milling clause is also not irrelevant versus toolbox strategies or strategies that try to chain a series of cards together. Due to this disruption to the library, it provides an edge against Combo.
The Puresteel Engine requires a heavy equipment count, with extra artifacts shoring up the metalcraft. Putting together Basilisk Collar and Mortarpod accounts for a lot of game wins, so there's an extra Collar in the board for when you have to bring in Torpor Orb (since you can no longer count on Trinket Mage/card],) or for when an aggro matchup might conceivably get rid of the equipment (such as Tempered Steel.) Sylvok Lifestaff costs one and equips for one, which is invaluable, and plays a key role in the maindeck against Mono Red and Vamps. Accorder's Shield befuddles a lot of people, but the card gets tutored for on occasion and is useful for cantripping and turning on Moxen. In some rare instances, it's the best equipment in the deck.
The sword package has changed since the deck's inception in the earlier, more open post banning metagame. I started with two of each good sword and a Sword of Body and Mind, since at that time I was just as likely to play against Valakut as Caw Blade, and while the UG sword wasn't optimal against either deck, it was less dead than the off color sword, which left me with three powerful maindeck equipment at all times, which was better than preboarding in an open meta. Now that Caw Blade has taken over, favoring the Sword of War and Peace in the maindeck is natural.
The Squadron Hawks are another symptom of the Caw Blade metagame, with the bonus of being key cards in the UB matchup as well. Initially, Grim Lavamancer was receiving a lot of hype, which had me maindecking Kor Firewalkers, and I've also tried mixtures of Kor Duelists, Spellskites, and Glint Hawks in what I consider the flex slots. The hawks are decent with Sylvok Lifestaff against aggro, and can fuel a Mortarpod to sweep the opponent's board or pick off planeswalkers. However, the deck can only support so many non-artifact, non-equipment cards, so they get boarded out a lot.
The Etched Champions are insane. I've ground down many a Gideon with a suited up Champion, and if you have an Accorder's Shield on it the Gideon can't even profitably crack back. The Champion is great at getting Sword hits through a wall of blockers. The card can also handle otherwise problem permanents, like a Mirran Crusader with a Sword of War and Peace on it. I would run more of the card, but it's on the clogged three drop alongside the swords and Trinket Mages. Remember that Spellskite and Inkmoth Nexus can block it, Contagion Clasp can kill it, and Tumble Magnet can tap it down.
The Trinket Mages can fetch up a Mox Opal for a turn four sword+equip, but usually they fetch a Basilisk Collar, and in some rare instances they'll tutor for a Flayer Husk, acting as a mini Ranger of Eos.
Dispatch is a heck of a card, and I'm constantly surprised that I never want to board it out, as even the control decks have titans and Consecrated Sphinx. They also keep the deck from being weak to man lands, which is key in this format. In this deck, the card has the Serra Avenger drawback in that it can't be played early. The Dismembers are in the board to fix that flaw, as they can take out a Lotus Cobra, Overgrown Battlements, or early Deceiver Exarch when Dispatch can't.
Preordain is the glue that holds it all together. I like to joke that Preordain is Ancestral Recall in this deck, as I bottom two more often than not. I guess I'm looking for a missing piece of the complicated, evolving puzzle that constitutes an average game.
On his Sideboard Guidelines:
Sideboard Guidelines:
Remember that, when boarding, you should always be thinking about your game plan in the specific matchup. Don't autopilot because you might miss something. Focusing on the details will keep you from tilting off a punt, too.
Control: Against the control decks the obvious change is cutting a Sylvok Lifestaff for a Negate. Against UB you cut an Accorder's Shield for the extra sword, and against Caw Blade you can cut a Mox Opal on the play or a Celestial Colonnade on the draw for the extra sword.
QUOTES on conversation by Mermaster and TheHosecloth about countermagics etc.
Originally Posted by Mermaster
This may sound a touch nit-picky: but I feel we need to re-examine the claim that Puresteel decks fall under the control-combo category. Here's the reason: our primary engine (Puresteel Paladin) focuses on both card advantage and tempo. Combo-control focuses far less on tempo, instead looking for card economy and efficient answers to win the game, while winning it faster than a normal control deck.
By TheHosecloth
In our case, we focus on synergy and tempo, while card economy is being an important though not quite as pivotal piece to the puzzle of our deck. To this end, this deck falls far more under an aggro-control category. For those of those who will say this is not an aggro deck, I will agree. By my definition: the old form of Caw-Blade was an aggro-control deck. Indeed, the way we are more aggro is the fact that we can place an early threat, and proceed to back it up with counter magic.
It is nit-picky, but it's necessary to find out where we lie for development. I consider Puresteel Paladin to be a tempo list above all. It's what we thrive on. Now the list has combo elements, but does not try to piece together a full combo kill in a key turn. We strive to piece together certain synergies and interactions to propel ourselves to victory. Moving on, I do not feel that the list embodies any aggro elements whatsoever. Yes, we have low cmc creatures, but we don't strive to flat out win the game within the first four or five turns of the game. Rather, we attempt to lock out the board and swing with efficient creatures after our engine has been set up. Regardless, I think we will inevitably be put in the strata of Aggro-Control due to the fact that we strive to gain an early advantage and protect it, even though there are combo elements involved.
Originally Posted by Mermaster
To this end, TheHosecloth's analysis that we need counter magic is absolutely correct. Anywhere between 3-4 Mana Leaks would be an excellent place to start looking at the correct counter suite. Deprive and Into the Roil (yes, I know it's not a couterspell; it's a tempo play) are both interesting options, as well.
Good to see that someone agrees. In testing, I found that it was paramount that we protect our advantage. I think that Deprive would be the best choice, considering that it's a cheap hard counter. Furthermore, the setback of returning a land to your hand is close to being irrelevant in our list, for we can operate on low mana counts and still be efficient. Not only that, but there's a small amount of synergy to be had with Deprive and Halimar Depths.
Originally Posted by Mermaster
I also must disagree that we do not want any cards casting more than 4 in this deck, for as it was pointed out, generally we either go aggressive very quickly, or we do it much later, after the Collar Combo + other removal has sufficiently handled the board, allowing for us to set up our win "combo" with paladin and swords. In general, our deck aims to play a longer game. Not quite as long as control, but long enough to where we lock the board and proceed to win. Our advantage over control is that we can do what they do faster. To this end, we should not throw out the idea of 24-25 lands, 4 Preordain, and some number of Gideon Jura, Sun Titan, Consecrated Sphinx (again, I'm going on a limb here) immediately; rather we should discuss whether our deck does better by focusing on getting quick Puresteel wins or longer wins focusing on powerful cards locking out the game and synergistic cards ending the game (yes ladies and gentlemen, a deck can have synergistic and powerful cards in it all at the same time).
By TheHosecloth
As a general rule of thumb while building this deck, I would not run any cards above the 4cmc--especially if we decide to run Deprive. Reason being, there isn't much up top that propels our gameplan further. Furthermore, being to operate on less than four lands in most games is a huge advantage that our list has over others, and I would not be willing to jeopardize that with adding cards in the higher cmc. It's hard to believe with 25 sources of mana, but 6 mana is quite a bit in this dec. Personally, I believe Argent Sphinx does a beautiful job of providing a resilient attacker to lock away the game swiftly with equipment. There doesn't seem to be much more that we need from the larger cmc. That being said, if someone insisted on running five or six-drops, I would counsel Sun Titan due to the fact that he capitalizes on synergy. For what it's worth, I've tested him in my first iteration and the sideboard. He hasn't been up to snuff.
Please don't make crap up. This is such an obvious word vomit it's ridiculous. Something about the internet and people thinking they need to say something to fit in..
ah, i didn't know equip was an activated ability. makes perfect sense now that i actually think about it though. guess we need to cut a few things in order to play our own hate. i also don't know how effective body and mind will be. with so many cards that can be played from the graveyard, it might be a bad decision to mill them.
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Has anyone playing W/ considered adding in Geist of Saint Traft as a 1 or 2 of? The hexproof is nice, and couple that with a sword could make him a quick clock. Also, if I am thinking correctly you could include a sundial of the infinite to keep the 4/4 token. Basically attack, let dmg occur and at end of combat when the exile trigger is on the stack, end the turn with Sundial to keep the token. The sundial is an artifact (for metalcraft) and if you are playing oblivion rings, you could throw in a Venser or two for permanent exiling. I'll see if I cant get a working decklist together. I'll post it when I do.
i think surgical extraction should be a sideboard card now. its probably the most efficient way to get rid of hate they use. i'd gladly pay 2 life to stop them from using naturalize, ancient grudge, or creeping corrosion again that game. Nevermore is an enchantment, so they can always just get rid of it and be able to play those spells again.
i'm not entirely sold on mortarpod any more either. it can still kill small fry and chump block, but without death touch, it loses much of its effectiveness. its just a shame that we got literally no good equipment this time around.
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Has anyone thought of working on the Puresteel + Tezzeret Variation? I wonder about this deck, as Tezzeret, Puresteel, and the Swords seem like some of the strongest cards in the format with regardless to power level and doing really degenerate things. I wonder about smashing them all together - perhaps something like:
If you are looking for improvements/slots, it might start with better beaters at the 3 drop slot than Blade Splicer, something better than Ponder, going down to 1 Mox, 3 Dispatch, or a couple Mortarpods, since they're most likely worse without Basilisk Collar.
I'm thinking an auto add for me here is Invisible Stalker, that's just a gimmie and some mix of the new humans like mentor. The new non basic land Moorland Haunt will likely replace my Inkmoth I think. I need me a spirit generator.
I am liking the idea of Bonehoard, spot on with the graveyard mechanic. Thinking that a couple Grand Architects might be useful to speed up our artifact delivery. Works like a charm in Illusions.
So for fun we sack a spirit, strap the Hauberk to a Mirrodin Crusader with a sword and end the game in short order. FWIW I ordered more Crusaders to fill out my playset once I saw the human buff effects we were getting.
Has anyone thought of working on the Puresteel + Tezzeret Variation? I wonder about this deck, as Tezzeret, Puresteel, and the Swords seem like some of the strongest cards in the format with regardless to power level and doing really degenerate things. I wonder about smashing them all together - perhaps something like:
I was totally on board with this idea until I did some research on how animation and equipment interact.
Short form: When you use Tezzeret's ability on an equipment, it can't equip things anymore, and falls off if it was previously equipped to something. That alone was enough to kill the idea for me.
301.5c An Equipment that’s also a creature can’t equip a creature. An Equipment that loses the
subtype “Equipment” can’t equip a creature. An Equipment can’t equip itself. An Equipment
that equips an illegal or nonexistent permanent becomes unattached from that permanent but
remains on the battlefield. (This is a state-based action. See rule 704.)
I agree that Mortarpod looks a little more lackluster since the rotation, but it still has more than enough uses in standard - the most notable is picking off 1-drops on turn two (All mana dorks, Blade Splicer, Stromkirk Noble if you're on the play, Vault Skirge), as well as providing draw fodder. If you've gotten much experience using this deck in the late-game, you'd know that mortarpod activations can often get you a kill one turn earlier than you otherwise would, especially with puresteel paladin out. I don't think it's necessary as a 4-of anymore, but I'm still running 3 myself.
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http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/innistrad/cig#
Scrolling down past the Multi-colored cards you can find the artifacts, were we get a few decent ones.
A few that stand out are Inquisitors flail (equipped creature deals double damage, and creatures deal double damage to it) and Trepenation blade (when the creature attacks the opponent reveals cards from the top of his or her library until they get a land card. Equipped creature gets +x/+0 for each card revealed this way, then they put the revealed cards in the graveyard.) Obviously it is a double edged sword as some decks want cards in the graveyard, at the same time you could end up swinging for a whole lot of damage, so who knows.
I think with the loss of Basilisk collar we are going to want to change the deck somewhat. While mortarpod alone is still very nice, I think if we want to go a more WW route we can get rid of mortarpod and basilisk collar, as well as the trinket mages, and most of the other blue cards, and add in some of the equipment that gets bonuses on humans, as well as some of the new White human cards.
Champion of the parish, Elite Inquisitor, and mentor of the meek are all pretty good cards, that could synergize well with some changes to the deck. Mikeaus the lunarch could also be nice, especially if you go mono-WW, and change the deck around some.
Lastly if you want to keep the deck more in line with what it has been I think blue adds in some nice cards that will be pretty good. Mindshrieker and Invisible Stalker are both great cards, that could carry our equipment quite well. Anyway it is late and I have a test in the morning, but i will try and post a post-rotation list tomorrow.
Aw man we just lost the good infos we shared in devcomp. Good job on opening a thread though, GreatWhiteColey. I still think we can manage after the loss of Basilisk Collar. Alot of potential cards though. Since Innistrad lets us access other good colors than U, its nice to see people brew other versions. For sure the new DoJ card (forgot the name) will be in my deck, as well as Invisible Stalker and a possible Elite Inquisitor, of course including the 1WU legendary creature. Just too good to be in our deck! (even the 1UU fliers have potential in our deck, Glint Hawks can finally serve its purpose)
Another note on our equipment is the possible use of Nim Deathmantle since it zombifies your creature. A good interaction for playing puresteel zombie.
Happy Brewing guys! Let's keep puresteel alive.
Invisible stalker is also an "obvious" inclusion (If you're playing UW of course) with the loss of Squadron Hawk; the other potential 3 drop to try instead of Mentor is the one that exiles a creature when it enters the board.
I could also see a reason to try an alternate control style deck with the use of the new +X/+0 equipment for each sorcery/instant in the graveyard.
To be honest the only issue I see with Innistrad is that our Puresteel deck might no longer be one of the more 'fun' and considerably competitive decks to play.
Sad, we lost Kor Firewalker.
I was enjoying a game of red today, beating the crap out of them using firewalker. Im going to miss that guy.
We could still play a little bit of control. The deck won't just die with a loss of a single card. Either way, if collar got reprinted, we won't stand a chance against a horde of token zombies anyway. Solution? Wrath effect - the new one. I reeeaaally cannot recall the card's name.
We lost preordain, so did the other guy. Deal with it. We're still fortunate enough to get diggers, right? So I still won't say the deck becomes sub-par compared to the new theme Innistrad brings.
That said, I think I'm going to disagree with the conventional wisdom here and say that the blue splash is no less important than it ever was. Here's my reasoning:
I dislike most of the equipment that people have been tossing around so far in this thread, to be honest. First, T-Blade is extremely random, and will almost never amount to more than 2-3 cards milled into the graveyard. You could mill something with flashback, or a Skaab, and give their deck virtual card advantage. I don't like it's lack of consistency, it's mana cost, or really anything about it. INquisitor's flail has more potential, but most of our creatures are fairly small to begin with, and I wouldn't want to run multiples - the list is tight enough on non-creature equipment as is.
I do, however, like the silver-inlaid dagger. Adding three power for two mana (on almost all our relevant creatures) seems like a good deal, especially when we can fetch with trinket mage and therefore only run 1, while still making sure that we can get it when needed. Mirran Crusader swings for 10 with the dagger, and that's extremely threatening as a turn 6, two card kill. (t3 mirran crusader, t4 dagger and equip, Swing for 10. t6 swing for 10.) Minimal mana investment for great return is going to help us a lot, especially since we'll be drawing cards nonstop.
I'll be posting my list shortly, after I've written it up.
What I think is the direction we should take this deck is UW, still utilizing trinket mage, while veering away from Etched Champion towards Mirran Crusader and Mentor of the Meek. Running Mentor gives us, draw engines 5-8, which will make it much more difficult for our opponants to keep them off the field, and increase consistency.
Hope you enjoy it!
I didn't say you said that the deck becomes sub-par. It was my own opinion. Sorry for the confusion.
I would like to point out what other option our deck have in this next block (IMO):
1) Access to other colors, we may be flooded with equipments but that doesn't mean we can't run good spells that the other colors run (black/green has some) WBU, what's not to love?
2) Interaction with equipments from MBS particularly Bonehoard. They love their graveyard, we do too. (don't forget about Darksteel Plate)
3) Tramplers. U and W tramplers is just so good to be true.
4) Trinket Mage is yay-nay here. Either it fetches moxen or just a cute accorder's shield. Or replace it with other good cards. Personally, I'd run some Cryptoplasm
5) Snapcaster Mage may have a place in our deck if we play mid-control. Meaning, spells, spells, and more spells.
6) Mortarpod can still see play but with a common P/T of 2/2s, I'd doubt we'd use it since we lose collar. I'd play Disperse if I'm playing U instead.
7) Neo-Boros version. Jor-kadeen's time to shine (or not)
8) More Swords of X & Y?
4 Puresteel Paladin
4 Mentor of the Meek
3 Trinket Mage
4 Mirran Crusader
Equipment (15)
3 Mortarpod
4 Flayer Husk
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Sword of War and Peace
1 Accorder's Shield
1 Silver-inlaid Dagger
1 Sylvok Lifestaff
1 Mox Opal
Spells (6)
3 Dispatch
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Ponder
Lands (23)
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Inkmoth Nexus
3 Moorland Haunt
7 Plains
1 Island
There is some argument for Invisible Stalker or Etched Champion as a 'sword bearer' over Mirran Crusader, and I think those are viable choices as well. Mirran Crusader has just been preforming extremely well. Of the three, I think that the Stalker is the weakest, with Etched Champion and Mirran Crusader both extremely close.
Dispatch/Oblivion ring is close too. I'm not sure if I'd prefer the 3-1 split I have or a 2-2. It'll depend on the number of threatening noncreature permanants. I will likely switch to a 2-2 if Pod, TS, and a number of walker-centric strategies show up.
The Ponders are just fine, and Trinket Mage provides a shuffle effect if needed. I'm considering swapping them for Gitaxian Probe, depending on the prevalance of Dismember and Countermagic in the format.
The one-of Island is so that an opposing ghost quarter can't shut me off a color. I think the deck, despite relying on WW early on, can easily achieve this despite the high number of non-basics.
Hope you enjoy it!
Secondly, I am not a real fan of mentor of the meek. For one, his cmc is 3, and secondly his ability cost mana (as compared to Puresteel Paladin). If you add him you will be increasing your deck overall cmc.
I also agree that U may make a larger part of my new deck. I really like invisible stalker, mindshrieker, and curiosity.
I dont really see any new equipment that I [initially/potentially] will be using for my build. If your not playing mirran crusader, the dagger seems meh. Sure you can add new additional humans, but they then push out artifacts. Dont forget that you need a ton of artifacts to achieve metalcraft.
The good news is in this set they only added 5 artifact creatures (none really playable IMO), so Etched Champion can continue to beat down.
As for the post about new artifact hate. I only see Ancient Grudge, Naturalize, and Stony Silence. They are losing naturalize (lol), nature's claim, kor sanctifiers and some other unplayables. Overall it looks to have balanced. And if you are worried about flashback, dont forget that we still have access to surgical extraction
EDH:▼
(links to 3D generals)
Playing: Designing:
Retired:
First off, I can see the arguments against mentor, but we already run a pretty solid land base that can easily accomodate 3 drops. Our creatures tend to be on the smaller end as is, and I think mentor is easily going to be a superstar in this deck.
Mindshrieker and Invisible stalker are worth looking at, but curiosity is not. It's a lackluster enchantment that opens you up to 2-1's all the time. If you have it on a stalker, it's a little more forgivable, but even still, he's flimsy and I can see a ton of situations when he'll be dying anyway. He just seems terrible without a sword.
Mentor, Paladin, and Trinket Mage are all humans, as is the stalker. I think that's more than enough humans to be assured of the +3/+0 most of the time, and it's not terrible otherwise.
Stony Silence is pretty painful for our deck. Ancient grudge hurts too, but should only really see play in RG, which might not be an entirely viable deck until DKA or the third set when we get some more werewolves. You also forgot Creeping Corrosion, which is going to see extensive SB play in any deck running green. There's too many artifacts running around for it and Naturalize to not be played.
Hope you enjoy it!
Fiend Hunter seems to be promising.
i think going mono-white will probably be a good idea. u doesn't add much in terms of helping us this time around. yeah, invisible stalker, but one card isn't going to win us the game.
You are aware that "Equip" is an activated ability, correct? Our whole deck sort of relies on them. While Nevermore can shut off one artifact, Stony Silence turns off every equip in our deck. While they won't fall off, they will become useless once 'dropped'
Ancient Grudge is problematic, but again, I don't know if there's going to be many decks running R/G. Werewolves is the obvious archetype, but given their lack of any appreciable mythic, and amount of card draw we have, I don't think we should have any trouble keeping them off of 'wolf form' long enough to kill them with swords.
Mana Leak (and general countermagic, for that point) is a possible option, but at least at the start of the block, I'd want to keep it in the board and bring it in once they bring their anti-artifact cards in. I don't see as much in the main that we must-counter.
Hope you enjoy it!
I agree. Now I think people will come in to consensus of adding counter magics. Negate haters no more?
Honestly, I was building my deck post-rotation so I can still manage against hosers (now enchanments) come Innistrad. (Don't leave Demystify behind, too!)
I don't think it is a matter of losing hope. The deck already had a split between uw with trinket mages and more psuedo controllish and a mono white that was a touch more aggro. I think all the rotation has and will do is further define those two archtypes of our deck. You can just as easily stay uw or go ww. The only tool we lost is basilisk collar, but we are gaining considerable others.
All equipment have activated abilities in the form of equipping.
Better play some Revokes or counters...
I guess I am only looking at the initial 5 or 6 turns where IMO he would hinder us playing stuff. That being said, if the game goes long, then he could be an asset.
Well, if you add Mentor and/or playing with Mirran Crusader then I could see the benefit, but otherwise I would think that there are better equipment that could be played. Oh and Trinket is played as a 2 of in my build, so he really doesnt bring the count up much.
I did not forget about Creeping Corrosion, I was just showing what cards are being added vs removed. Revoke Existence, or Negate seem like decent SB against Stony Silence. Surgical Extraction can remove ancient grudge for a measly 2 life (or opal activation).
Side note, what happens if you have parallel lives in play and you drop a mortapod or batterskull? Does a 2nd germ get created? If so, will it just die as they both cannot be equipped to the artifact?
EDH:▼
(links to 3D generals)
Playing: Designing:
Retired:
Like I said back in DevComp thread, its best to play pseudo-controllish/ pseudo-cawblade (be it UW). Since we usually don't overextend our play, we play control. Since we don't have anything to protect paladin come turn 3, we play control and wait for more lands to drop. Since we want to set up our board while delaying the opponent, its still best to play control. Once we set up our board with a given Sword of X & Y, its almost a lockdown/pressure for the opponent that it is too late for him to recover.
For people playing 2-of Trinket Mages I think they'd still know how to play even Collar/Pod isn't online. I managed winning the game with a few counters and Turn to Frog (God, I love this card) in hand. By that, I wouldn't rely board presence on Pod/Collar alone, tbh.
WORTH READING: I've copy pasted my quotes of Caleb Durward and TheHosecloth regarding our cards, if you haven't read this yet, I suggest you guys read it before throwing problems:
EDIT: I think this comment by TheHosecloth deserves to be on the first page(originally located on 11th page). It basically summarizes the core cards that this deck needs.
Caleb Durward with his card explanations. (Caleb Durward's Article on Puresteel deck)
On his Sideboard Guidelines:
Sideboard Guidelines:
Remember that, when boarding, you should always be thinking about your game plan in the specific matchup. Don't autopilot because you might miss something. Focusing on the details will keep you from tilting off a punt, too.
Control: Against the control decks the obvious change is cutting a Sylvok Lifestaff for a Negate. Against UB you cut an Accorder's Shield for the extra sword, and against Caw Blade you can cut a Mox Opal on the play or a Celestial Colonnade on the draw for the extra sword.
Valakut:
Splinter Twin:
Pod decks:
Lightning Bolt Agro:
QUOTES on conversation by Mermaster and TheHosecloth about countermagics etc.
Has anyone playing W/ considered adding in Geist of Saint Traft as a 1 or 2 of? The hexproof is nice, and couple that with a sword could make him a quick clock. Also, if I am thinking correctly you could include a sundial of the infinite to keep the 4/4 token. Basically attack, let dmg occur and at end of combat when the exile trigger is on the stack, end the turn with Sundial to keep the token. The sundial is an artifact (for metalcraft) and if you are playing oblivion rings, you could throw in a Venser or two for permanent exiling. I'll see if I cant get a working decklist together. I'll post it when I do.
EDH:▼
(links to 3D generals)
Playing: Designing:
Retired:
4 Inkmoth Nexus
18 Plains
Creatures
4 Vault Skirge
4 Puresteel Paladin
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Mentor of the Meek
3 Spellskite
4 Mortarpod
4 Flayer Husk
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
3 Sword of War and Peace
4 Dispatch
2 Mox Opal
4 Nevermore
2 Divine Offering
3 Revoke Existence
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Dismember
1 Spellskite
*Edited deck formatting
i'm not entirely sold on mortarpod any more either. it can still kill small fry and chump block, but without death touch, it loses much of its effectiveness. its just a shame that we got literally no good equipment this time around.
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Inkmoth Nexus
5 Plains
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Puresteel Paladin
4 Blade Splicer
4 MortarPod
2 Flayer Husk
1 Batterskull
Other Equipment (7)
3 Sword of War and Peace
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sylvok Lifestaff
1 Accorder's Shield
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Dispatch
4 Ponder
2 Mox Opal
If you are looking for improvements/slots, it might start with better beaters at the 3 drop slot than Blade Splicer, something better than Ponder, going down to 1 Mox, 3 Dispatch, or a couple Mortarpods, since they're most likely worse without Basilisk Collar.
Sig by DNC/HotP Studios
BMono-BlackB
GWGW AggroWG
UWBEsper ControlBWU
Modern
GRWUKiki PodUWRG
RGZooGR
BRGJundGRB
GRGR TronRG
EDH
RUGAnimar, Soul of Elements ComboGUR
GWBTeneb, The Harvester ReanimatorBWG
I am liking the idea of Bonehoard, spot on with the graveyard mechanic. Thinking that a couple Grand Architects might be useful to speed up our artifact delivery. Works like a charm in Illusions.
Lots other great artifacts to try out, I'm thinking Cobbled Wings, Demonmail Hauberk and Wooden Stake off the snap.
So for fun we sack a spirit, strap the Hauberk to a Mirrodin Crusader with a sword and end the game in short order. FWIW I ordered more Crusaders to fill out my playset once I saw the human buff effects we were getting.
I was totally on board with this idea until I did some research on how animation and equipment interact.
Short form: When you use Tezzeret's ability on an equipment, it can't equip things anymore, and falls off if it was previously equipped to something. That alone was enough to kill the idea for me.
301.5c An Equipment that’s also a creature can’t equip a creature. An Equipment that loses the
subtype “Equipment” can’t equip a creature. An Equipment can’t equip itself. An Equipment
that equips an illegal or nonexistent permanent becomes unattached from that permanent but
remains on the battlefield. (This is a state-based action. See rule 704.)
I agree that Mortarpod looks a little more lackluster since the rotation, but it still has more than enough uses in standard - the most notable is picking off 1-drops on turn two (All mana dorks, Blade Splicer, Stromkirk Noble if you're on the play, Vault Skirge), as well as providing draw fodder. If you've gotten much experience using this deck in the late-game, you'd know that mortarpod activations can often get you a kill one turn earlier than you otherwise would, especially with puresteel paladin out. I don't think it's necessary as a 4-of anymore, but I'm still running 3 myself.
Hope you enjoy it!