Stromkirk Noble: R for a 1/1 that gets bigger and can't be blocked by Humans. Probably the best option we have for now that's an aggressive beater.
Grim Lavamancer: R for a 1/1. This isn't a Vampire, but he gives us extra reach, as we don't use cards in our graveyards anyway. Extra bonus in sacrificing this to Falkenrath Aristocrat for a +1/+1 counter which could be relevant in finishing the game.
Vampire Interloper: 2/1 flier for 1B. He isn't spectacular since he is basically a crappier Stormfront Pegasus, but it is what it is. Play 2-4 if you desire.
Stormblood Berserker: 1R for a 1/1 or 3/3 that needs to be blocked by 2 or more creatures. He isn't a Vampire, but it is a solid card. It isn't really advisable to run this card too much if you want Bloodline Keeper to be flipped often, though.
Bloodcrazed Neonate: 1R for a 2/1 that grows bigger but has to attack each turn. This is generally a bad thing, but you could use it to your advantage by pressuring your opponent by giving them information that they have a 2/1 / 3/2 / 4/3, etc. coming at them every turn. Plus, it gets larger quicker with Rakish Heir, and is pretty monstrous with any other lords out. I also like it better than Child of Night, since it actually grows, giving it a bit more resilience. At the very least, this card can trade with relevant creatures. This card gets a lot better when you have Stromkirk Captain out. First strike makes it quite deadly.
Markov Blademaster: 1RR for a 1/1 double strike. This card would be amazing without Gut Shot and Vapor Snag being so heavily played. It gets monstrous if you have a Rakish Heir out and is just better when you have lords out.
Rakish Heir: 2R for a 2/2 that makes all Vampires you have get bigger when they connect. Essentially a conditional lord for the deck. It applies to himself too, so it’s not too bad of a choice. However, he’s not so great at a stalemate or facing bigger creatures. It is nice that it makes your creatures that connect bigger on their own, though.
Stromkirk Captain: 1BR for a 2/2 first strike. Pretty powerful for its cost and he's only an uncommon. This makes our creatures better attackers and can even attack and defend well himself to where you have a wall of first strikers to just take down a creature before it can even deal damage. Obvious 4-of.
Adaptive Automaton: 3 for a 2/2, the lord for any tribal deck. While he seems pretty unimpressive, the static +1/+1 is a lot more reliable than the other conditional boosts. This also gives your creatures more resilience, which is pretty necessary in my opinion. I think too many "regular Lords" for the deck is a bad idea, though, since they are mediocre topdecks.
Bloodline Keeper / Lord of Lineage: 2BB for a 3/3 flier than transforms into a 5/5 flier. Already aggressively costed, his abilities put him a bit over the top. Making more creatures is always great, and the fact that he can then give a static +2/+2 to all other Vampires you control is powerful. You can essentially make him a 2BBB lord if you have enough creatures out, too. Not that this is always necessary to do, however. Do not forget that you can activate his Transform at instant speed! Many times I have made a 2/2 flier and transformed, allowing me to block with a 4/4 or greater flier and just won the next turn. The only problem with this card at the moment is that it is a bit slow for what it does.
Falkenrath Aristocrat: 2BR for a 4/1 flier that can be Indestructible. Obviously a lot better when we have a lord out to get out of Gut Shot range. If it was a 4/2, it would be so much better... Still, this is very aggressive and I would include 2 for now. Think of it as a persistent Ball Lightning that flies.
Olivia Voldaren: A win condition all on her own. 2BR for a 3/3 flier that gets rid of small chump blockers and gets larger in the process. If she faces a foe that is larger than her, simply ping them a few times to get bigger, or just take control of them. A fairly powerful card once you untap with it for sure. She is definitely a little slow, however. She might not belong in this deck other than in the sideboard at best.
Other cards worth mentioning:
Child of Night: 1B for a 2/1 lifelink is decent at best. She is much too fragile, although the Lifelink is very tempting. She may be added over Vampire Interloper if you want.
Crossway Vampire: 1RR for a 3/2 with a somewhat useful ETB effect. Stopping a blocker for a turn can be crucial in a game-winning swing, and it’s also a creature. However, I think that if an effect of this sort is necessary, Traitorous Blood out of the board is a bit stronger to give you that extra damage anyways. The card is also too slow and trades with a lot of things that are played in the format, actually. It also does not actually get rid of the problem at hand.
Erdwal Ripper: 1RR for a 2/1 haste that has the ability to get bigger once it connects. I think Markov Blademaster is just better than this card since so many things can block this. For a card that costs 3, you typically don't want this to be the case unless it is very strong.
Falkenrath Noble: 3B for a 2/2 flier with a powerful effect. However, he simply costs too much and competes with a few other amazing cards: Bloodline Keeper, Olivia Voldaren, and Falkenrath Aristocrat. While I do like that he punishes your opponents for blocking and rewards you for destroying their creatures, he just costs too much. If only it was a 2 or 3 drop… You could maybe find a way to put him in, but then you lose a bit of aggressiveness.
Falkenrath Marauders: 3RR for a 2/2 hasty flier that gets bigger twice as it connects. For this deck, I don’t really like using such high-cost creatures and I think he isn’t as good at creating advantage as Olivia or Bloodline Keeper. Card is definitely cool, but just costs too high for this deck in my eyes. It might be nice to experiment with it, though.
Bloodlord of Vaasgoth: 3BB for a 3/3 or 6/6 flier that gives Vampires we cast Bloodthirst 3. Personally, I feel like this guy comes out too late. He doesn't have a major impact in our deck and we play the early to mid-game too much to benefit from his late-game effect.
Tezzeret's Gambit: 3 and 2 life to draw 2 cards, along with a bonus of proliferation. This synergizes well with a good chunk of the deck, and also provides some much needed refueling to the deck. After testing this card and utilizing it, it was much too slow and the cost was actually a bit steep, and a bit of a too little too late. More removal helps the deck much more.
Arc Trail: Removal that can potentially kill 2 creatures. This is just what the deck wants to allow our creatures to get through in the early game. 2-for-1s are always great, and this is no slouch. Definitely want 3 or more, unless you're in a Control-filled meta, but even then, it hits Snapcaster Mage, albeit a little late.
Dismember: One of the best removal spells printed due to its flexibility. This is card gets rid of nearly all creatures, and is a very good inclusion to the deck. Really, it fits in virtually any deck. However, since you are in black, you can play better removal spells. You may want this in the sideboard, however, as it is the best removal spell against Mono-Black Infect.
Go for the Throat: Another solid removal spell to clear the path. Simply destroys a non-artifact creature that might be too big for our small guys to handle. It's a powerful spell for sure. Use a mix of this, Doom Blade, or Victim of Night.
Victim of Night: An incredibly flexible removal spell since no one actually plays Vampires, Werewolves, or Zombies competitively. The only problem is Phyrexian Crusader in top tier decks. Use it as your chance to essentially have a card that says "Destroy target creature" if Infect is not huge in your area. The BB cost is a bit prohibitive, but that's the price you pay for flexibility. If you can fit it in, play it.
Brimstone Volley: A 3 damage or 5 damage burn spell that can give serious reach and provides us answers to Mirran Crusader. It's a bit expensive, though, thus me preferring Incinerate.
Other cards worth mentioning:
Altar's Reap: Draw 2 cards for 2 mana, but needs a creature to be sacrificed. I personally don't like this card as it can be a horrible top deck, which draw spells shouldn't be. You also don't really want to be sacrificing your creatures, as you're a creature-based deck anyways.
Geth's Verdict: Gets around hexproof guys. Could be a viable piece of removal if you go against a lot of these, but keep in mind that there are lots of instant-speed token producers that can just ruin your day. There's also the fact that decks play other creatures. Grave Titan laughs at this card as well.
Tribute to Hunger: See above. Some life gain instead which could be relevant, but I think the 1 more mana could be backbreaking.
Incinerate: Straightforward 3 damage to target creature or player. It can be pretty effective if you want extra cheap burn, but I think actual removal spells are again better. I like Brimstone Volley a bit more as well.
Volt Charge: 3 damage with a bonus to proliferate. It isn't terrible, but it is kind of expensive for what it does.
Desperate Ravings: Instant speed card draw, but it requires you to discard a card at random, in which case there is really no card advantage. I don't really like this card that much because of the high variance factor, but some may like it.
Vampiric Fury: This card may find its way into lists in the long run, as this can be similar to an Overrun for Vampires. The fact that it is instant speed could also account for a few surprise wins as well, but it is strictly a win-more card. Pass on it for now. Plus, Stromkirk Captain gives you first strike right now anyways.
Curse of the Stalked Prey: I like this card, but not in this deck to due it being a weak topdeck and diluting the amount of creatures we run. Plus, Rakish Heir already does a good job of pumping our guys, and he's a creature too.
Contagion Clasp: Perhaps too "cute" of a card to include, but it is sort of removal and could be a card worth putting into the deck later on. If you plan on utilizing the deal-damage-get-bigger creatures, this is certainly an option.
Stensia Bloodhall: A land that gives us some pretty good reach if needed. It's uncounterable damage as well. Since the current Vampires have less strict mana costs, this is a card should easily fit in. However, playing Victim of Night and this card can be somewhat dangerous. I think that this card could find its way in later. The unfortunate thing is the card essentially reads 4BR for 2 damage, however.
Ghost Quarter: This is a potential card to include to get rid of Moorland Haunt and other cards of the sort, but it is pretty weak as it's card disadvantage. I would stay away from this card, since there's better cards to use.
Dragonskull Summit: Dual land, so obviously include this card or you're just crippling yourself.
Manic Vandal: Artifact hate in creature form is not too bad. Still I might prefer the instant-speed of Ancient Grudge or Crush at cheaper mana costs.
Despise: Gets rid of creatures and planeswalkers before they can even hit play. However, I feel like they shouldn't even be too much of a problem since you have removal, and planeswalkers, while good, aren't as threatening anymore with the loss of Jace Beleren. Gideon Jura is still intimidating as ever, though, so it could be a plausible choice. On the other hand, no decks really play Gideon Jura anymore, so that's pretty good for us! Sadly, not as good as Duress.
Distress: At 1 more mana, this spell hits everything that isn't a land. I think the flexibility is worth the extra cost, although if you board this in, it most likely dilutes your creature-base a little. Still an option.
Slagstorm: I'm pretty unsure about this card. If your guys are big enough, or you are too behind, this could be good, but I don't think it really warrants sideboard slots sadly.
Traitorous Blood: I think this card is stronger than Act of Aggression due to the addition of Trample. A stolen Wurmcoil Engine or Grave Titan is pretty back-breaking, since they have deathtouch and can trample a good amount of damage through.
Surgical Extraction: Free information and gets rid of problem cards that have already been somewhat dealt with. Still, it's worth a thought.
Geistflame: A 1 damage burn spell that could be used twice. It seems good in theory, hitting Inkmoth Nexus, Plague Stinger, Viridian Emissary, Birds of Paradise, Llanowar Elves, etc. It is only good at that, though, I would say. A card to consider for sure.
Ancient Grudge: I would splash Green in the deck just to make your Tempered Steel match-up better. This card helps a lot, destroying essentially every card in their deck.
Nihil Spellbomb: Graveyard hate at its finest. You can even draw a card off of it since you're in black. This could be a pretty good card to use.
Bump in the Night - Lightning Bolt to player is very nice. Is also "Loses life" which is great. Flashbackable
Altar's Reap - Card draw is beast, MOAR GAS
Volt Charge - Proliferate on all you +1+1 counters? Please
Curse of Stalked Prey - MOAR +1+1 COUNTERS?
Overall, I like the idea and where your deck is heading. I really hope it can become competitive. I think that the Bloodcrazed Neonate is pretty crappy, as well as Crossway Vampire. I also don't like Desperate Ravings, I think Alter's downside is much more tolerable than discarding the random card. 4 Adaptive doesn't feel right either, but I don't have another idea atm on what to put in its place.
Bump in the Night - Lightning Bolt to player is very nice. Is also "Loses life" which is great. Flashbackable
Keep in mind that in the Standard environment, "loses life" is actually a downside, because it can't hit planeswalkers. It used to be that there were any number of damage prevention effects that lifeloss could get around, but nowadays there aren't many of those and the ability to affect planeswalkers is much more relevant.
Sadly, the M12 Vampires are less than stellar. They are pretty much too slow.
I agree that Neonate isn't that great either, but I like it better than Child of Night because it can grow and puts on some pressure.
Bump in the Night: I'm not trying to be similar to the old BR Vampires; there's not enough low-cost creatures to do this. So, I've decided to use the Bloodhall as late game reach instead.
Altar's Reap: While this is certainly an option, I don't want to be sacrificing creatures when I am trying to get Bloodline Keeper transformed as early as possible to bring on the pain.
Volt Charge: I thought about it, but it's a little too slow for the deck. Yes, the proliferation is nice, but there are better spells for that added bonus. Tezzeret's Gambit, for example, as a draw spell is a bit more reliable.
Curse of Stalked Prey: The deck needs more creatures, rather than a spell that's a bad topdeck. The Rakish Heir is essentially the same thing on a stick, so it's better I would say.
I could just up the Gambits to 4 and add in some Child of Nights to make the lifeloss a little less negligible. The Automatons may not be right for the deck; I agree.
Thanks for the input guys; let's see if we can refine the deck a bit more!
Child: A good 2 drop body with lifelink gets bigger with Rakish Heir.
Rakish: I was Iffy about this guy at first too, but when you drop him he absolutely makes this deck better.
Bloodline: Makes 2/2 fliers and later makes your creatures bigger
Olivia: She is Really hard to deal with if she hits the field unanswered. gets a +1/+1 counter for two and her second ability has more uses than it seems at first.
Inferno Titan: Hes a titan
Shock: Helps your stromkirk hit turn two and plus, it's freaking shock lol
Dismember/ Go for the throat: No explanation needed
Distress: Good against any deck for getting rid of threats before they hit the table
Child of Night is okay, but it easily gets chump blocked and just dies. Sure, the Neonate does too, but I like the fact that the Neonate + Rakish means she grows twice, which is obviously better than once.
I feel there just isn't that much room for Olivia, but I guess it's possible to squeeze her in. I don't like the inclusion of Inferno Titan; he's better in a different deck. Obviously he's good but he's pretty high on the curve.
Shock is awful. I would rather play Arc Trail to get rid of up to 2 blockers. I also feel that 12 removal spells are too much. You need some form of draw power as you might run out of gas. Distress is an option, but I am unsure of what to take out.
Well, if you're going with a B/R Vampire deck, I see no reason not to play Vampiric Fury from INN. +2/+0 for all Vamps, but more importantly, it's an instant and gives them First Strike! Seems like a good card to play. Not sure if that makes a r/b vampire deck playable, but seems like it at least gives them some play against potentially faster aggro.
"Some call it a Habit, Cardboard Crack Addict
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Yea, those are MTG Bars. What can I say, I am a dork
I've updated the list up top. I think this might be the better deck list to hold onto; however, I have not had the time to test. I decided to include Olivia into the deck because she is just a win condition in herself. I also went with a 3/3 split with Automaton/Rakish Heir. I am still unsure how the split should be, but the Automaton is a good backup with a static +1/+1 which is better in a stalemate of sorts.
@Murdox: I thought about trying to include it into the deck, but then you run into the issue in that it doesn't help when we are behind and is not so great of a topdeck. It's better to keep our "boosts" in creatures.
@Sentou Ryoku: I don't like the Marauders. 5 for a 2/2 that could die to Shock just seems bad. Sure, he can grow quickly, but I'd rather just have Olivia. I feel you need some lower cost creatures to make Bloodline Keeper transformed earlier. The Falkenrath Noble is awesome because it punishes the opponent for blocking with small guys, but I feel that Olivia works better as an alternate win condition. I don't think the deck wants too many high cost creatures. If only he cost 1BB or 2B...
Also, I feel that you have too much removal and not enough creatures. You probably want some draw spells, too. Consider upping the land count to 24 to reliably hit 4 mana on turn 4.
@Xover: There's 70 cards in your deck list I think. I would cut Shrines and some removal to make the deck draw a bit more consistently.
I've updated the list up top. I think this might be the better deck list to hold onto; however, I have not had the time to test. I decided to include Olivia into the deck because she is just a win condition in herself. I also went with a 3/3 split with Automaton/Rakish Heir. I am still unsure how the split should be, but the Automaton is a good backup with a static +1/+1 which is better in a stalemate of sorts.
@Murdox: I thought about trying to include it into the deck, but then you run into the issue in that it doesn't help when we are behind and is not so great of a topdeck. It's better to keep our "boosts" in creatures.
@Sentou Ryoku: I don't like the Marauders. 5 for a 2/2 that could die to Shock just seems bad. Sure, he can grow quickly, but I'd rather just have Olivia. I feel you need some lower cost creatures to make Bloodline Keeper transformed earlier. The Falkenrath Noble is awesome because it punishes the opponent for blocking with small guys, but I feel that Olivia works better as an alternate win condition. I don't think the deck wants too many high cost creatures. If only he cost 1BB or 2B...
Also, I feel that you have too much removal and not enough creatures. You probably want some draw spells, too. Consider upping the land count to 24 to reliably hit 4 mana on turn 4.
@Xover: There's 70 cards in your deck list I think. I would cut Shrines and some removal to make the deck draw a bit more consistently.
Shrines are there to give more reach to the deck, being that the vampires themselves do not have the same speed the past vampire decks have had and people will have an easier time dealing with the vampires.
The removal is very much needed. This is a very Slighish type build with the vampires being 1 drop, 2 drop, 3 drop, 4 drop but need some extra reach as well.
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"Some call it a Habit, Cardboard Crack Addict
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Yea, those are MTG Bars. What can I say, I am a dork
I've updated the list up top. I think this might be the better deck list to hold onto; however, I have not had the time to test. I decided to include Olivia into the deck because she is just a win condition in herself. I also went with a 3/3 split with Automaton/Rakish Heir. I am still unsure how the split should be, but the Automaton is a good backup with a static +1/+1 which is better in a stalemate of sorts.
@Murdox: I thought about trying to include it into the deck, but then you run into the issue in that it doesn't help when we are behind and is not so great of a topdeck. It's better to keep our "boosts" in creatures.
@Sentou Ryoku: I don't like the Marauders. 5 for a 2/2 that could die to Shock just seems bad. Sure, he can grow quickly, but I'd rather just have Olivia. I feel you need some lower cost creatures to make Bloodline Keeper transformed earlier. The Falkenrath Noble is awesome because it punishes the opponent for blocking with small guys, but I feel that Olivia works better as an alternate win condition. I don't think the deck wants too many high cost creatures. If only he cost 1BB or 2B...
Also, I feel that you have too much removal and not enough creatures. You probably want some draw spells, too. Consider upping the land count to 24 to reliably hit 4 mana on turn 4.
@Xover: There's 70 cards in your deck list I think. I would cut Shrines and some removal to make the deck draw a bit more consistently.
I don't know, I still feel like Vampiric Fury might have a place in the deck. That being said, I think it will depend a lot on how the meta develops. Are we going to see more aggro decks? I kind of think so. I think there will be some control, but I think it will be more aggro oriented than in the past incarnations. The fact that Vampiric Fury gives Vamps a boost, first strike, and is an instant, can cause any aggro deck a ton of problems. As an opponent, am I willing to risk blocking or not blocking? Tough choices.
I suppose I will repost my Lords of Night deck in this thread, with some minor revisions. Since this is quickly turning into an official Vampires thread.
I suppose I will repost my Lords of Night deck in this thread, with some minor revisions. Since this is quickly turning into an official Vampires thread.
How do we feel about Reaper from the Abyss as a sideboard for pseudo gatekeeper of malakir replacement? 6/6 for 3B3Colorless and the removal repeats every round so long as you can kill something, including the round you play him.
So long as you can keep up the pressure and ensure at least something is dying, even if it's one of your creatures, you're pretty much guaranteed to get some payback.
The problem comes in that it costs 3 black, so it doesn't play friendly with the increased reliance on red mana. Grave Titan is sadly, strictly better. Because it supplements your board presence every turn, with an ETB effect that makes removal of him not that scary.
If anything, I think Reaper would be good for drawing removal away from your Vampires, because your opponent can't afford to have him stay on the field and be punished every single time something dies. He's a good pressure card, but I doubt many will choose him over Grave Titan.
Let me ask you guys this, how bad would it be playing a Curse of Stalked Prey/Volt Charge/Tezzeret's Gambit with an awkward mana curve? Taking starting hands knowing you're likely not going to "go off" until you really build?
If that's truly messed up and awkward, what kind of a consistency hit are we taking going with a Heartless Summoning vampire build with no one drops? Our 3 casting 5 drops are great, maybe even a little better, being 2 mana cheaper with a -1/-1 counter to start them off. I hate utilizing Adaptive Automaton, but it's really hard to keep the curve low trying to play with decent vampires. The 6 lords are probably better in this deck negating the -1/-1 counter. The 6 lords, also, only come down for 1 mana the turn after Heartless Summoning drops. That's praying you draw 1 of the 4 Summonings by 2 mana, which is likely, but doesn't happen often enough to be really troublesome.
For example:
Turn 1 - Land
Turn 2 - Land, Heartless Summoning
Turn 3 - Land, Option A - three 3 drops, Option B - one 4 drop and one 3 drop, Option C - one 5 drop
Truthfully, I would like to playtest both just to see if they're even possibly consistent. I have a bad feeling they probably aren't.
Personally, I think the aggressive mid-rangey type of approach is best for this deck. This is a bit similar to how it was with ALA/M10-M11/ZEN Standard, although the card quality then was much better.
I'm constantly editing the first post and have begun to attempt to work at a small primer of sorts for this deck.
You guys need Geth's Verdict in your lists, or you will be stone cold to the Invisible Men/Patron Saint version of UW.
More removal spells is better, without being able to rely on the CA of Squadron Hawk, even control decks will have to play more creatures. Without Jace Beleren and Preordain, controlly decks will be sparse and uncompetitive at first. The format will be much more creature heavy, making things like Arc Trail must plays.
Play Liliana of the Veil or die. It is another way to dominate against the control decks(the +1 is REALLY strong), pretty good against other creature decks(edict-effect also hits Hexproof guys, which matters with Invisible Men, Patron Saint, and Illusions). The ultimate doesn't really happen alot(you don't want to +1 that much), but I'm pretty sure everyone realizes how backbreaking it can be.
Play Ghost Quarter or look stupid(4 Quarter, 2 spell-land has been testing best for me). Still having the SOM lands and M12 lands makes our mana still very good, we can afford the colorless sources, and Moorland Haunt is pretty hard to beat in a sword based deck.
MY most successful lists have looked very 23 land, ~18 spells, ~18 guys in proportions.
Hero of Oxid Ridge, while not a Vampire, must be considered. Timely Reinforcements is still a card.
Agree, or don't. I'm just trying to provide information.
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Current Standard:
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Current Legacy:
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MonoUDelver(in progress)
You guys need Geth's Verdict in your lists, or you will be stone cold to the Invisible Men/Patron Saint version of UW.
More removal spells is better, without being able to rely on the CA of Squadron Hawk, even control decks will have to play more creatures. Without Jace Beleren and Preordain, controlly decks will be sparse and uncompetitive at first. The format will be much more creature heavy, making things like Arc Trail must plays.
Play Liliana of the Veil or die. It is another way to dominate against the control decks(the +1 is REALLY strong), pretty good against other creature decks(edict-effect also hits Hexproof guys, which matters with Invisible Men, Patron Saint, and Illusions). The ultimate doesn't really happen alot(you don't want to +1 that much), but I'm pretty sure everyone realizes how backbreaking it can be.
Play Ghost Quarter or look stupid(4 Quarter, 2 spell-land has been testing best for me). Still having the SOM lands and M12 lands makes our mana still very good, we can afford the colorless sources, and Moorland Haunt is pretty hard to beat in a sword based deck.
MY most successful lists have looked very 23 land, ~18 spells, ~18 guys in proportions.
Hero of Oxid Ridge, while not a Vampire, must be considered. Timely Reinforcements is still a card.
Agree, or don't. I'm just trying to provide information.
Umm slagstorm, Arc Trail, Black Sun's zenith all take care of invisble man
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Umm slagstorm, Arc Trail, Black Sun's zenith all take care of invisble man
Maybe you should reread the creature. He has this ability. Starts with Hex. Ends with Proof. Good luck on that arc trail.
Also not white weenie, so we aren't an aggressive deck that will play sweepers because we have this awesome token recovery engine. MAYBE Slagstorm, depending on the meta, but I will be playing none of these sweepers to start. The package involving Verdicts, Arc Trail, Brimstone Volley, and Shock have been going best.
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Current Standard:
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MonoUDelver(in progress)
I don't know if it'll be too much of an issue. You can always get rid of the Swords with Ancient Grudge out of the board. Could also probably find a way to fit a green source or 2 to take advantage of the flashback. Or just use Manic Vandal, now that I think about it.
Black Sun's Zenith could be an okay solution. Your +1/+1 counters will just override them in the long run, anyways.
The Hero could be an option. I prefer Olivia, though, just because she's a Vampire and wins all on her own. Maybe this is the wrong direction, but we won't know until next week.
As for the "sacrificing creatures" effects, I don't know how much I like them. Gatekeeper of Malakir was excellent since he was in a creature form, but Geth's Verdict is iffy. Plus, they have ways to make tokens to mitigate the effect, and well, they play Timely Reinforcements. Cool sacrifice card. It's worth looking into, though.
You guys need Geth's Verdict in your lists, or you will be stone cold to the Invisible Men/Patron Saint version of UW.
As others have stated, Black Sun and Slag Storm deal with spirits very well. Also, the Invisible Men decks will suffer from an inability to trade with Vampires. Invisible Man can swing for 2 a turn for an early advantage, sure. But if all they do is swing with their unblockable creatures that leaves them wide open for our Vampires to get bigger, and bigger, and bigger still. Late game, we trounce the Spirit deck.
More removal spells is better, without being able to rely on the CA of Squadron Hawk, even control decks will have to play more creatures. Without Jace Beleren and Preordain, controlly decks will be sparse and uncompetitive at first. The format will be much more creature heavy, making things like Arc Trail must plays.
I agree with this, Arc Trail is pretty much a must play right now. Considering it's the only truly effective defense against a Human Weenie Swarm.
Play Liliana of the Veil or die. It is another way to dominate against the control decks(the +1 is REALLY strong), pretty good against other creature decks(edict-effect also hits Hexproof guys, which matters with Invisible Men, Patron Saint, and Illusions). The ultimate doesn't really happen alot(you don't want to +1 that much), but I'm pretty sure everyone realizes how backbreaking it can be.
I sincerely doubt that Lilianna is a "Play or Die" ultimatum. I could be wrong, but she seems like a Blue/Black control girl more than a Vampire girl. For the aggressive archtype we're going for, Rakish Heir is the better three drop.
Play Ghost Quarter or look stupid(4 Quarter, 2 spell-land has been testing best for me). Still having the SOM lands and M12 lands makes our mana still very good, we can afford the colorless sources, and Moorland Haunt is pretty hard to beat in a sword based deck.
I think this is a meta call, but you're probably right. Originally I didn't think much of Ghost Quarter due to the fact that Manlands are going out. But I think it's at least worth sideboard consideration in case you run into those Sword decks.
Hero of Oxid Ridge, while not a Vampire, must be considered. Timely Reinforcements is still a card.
Eeehhh, I disagree. For the most part BECAUSE Hero is not a vampire, and we already have Lord of Lineage (or Falkenrath Noble, if you're trying to relive the glory days of Kalastria Highborn) for 4 drops. I don't think the Hero fits here.
The biggest problem with this kind of build, is that it doesn't matter how big we get our Vampires, a single field wipe spell equals good game. We're not as versatile anymore where our opponent could DoJ as we laugh and pay mana into Kalastria, sacrifice to Viscera Seer and chortle our way to victory. Focusing the deck on Proliferation with Tezz's Gambit and Volt Charge might be a way to get around this, this they offer card advantage and board control even without the proliferate. But that's going to have to wait on playtesting before we know for sure.
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4 Child of Night
4 Blood Artist
2 Vampire Interloper
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Stromkirk Captain
4 Vampire Nocturnus
2 Falkenrath Aristocrat
Noncreatures: 12
2 Sign in Blood
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Tragic Slip
3 Dismember
3 Go for the Throat
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
10 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Bloodline Keeper
2 Olivia Voldaren
4 Duress
2 Black Sun's Zenith
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Geth's Verdict
Below is the mini-primer of sorts I've compiled.
Stromkirk Noble: R for a 1/1 that gets bigger and can't be blocked by Humans. Probably the best option we have for now that's an aggressive beater.
Grim Lavamancer: R for a 1/1. This isn't a Vampire, but he gives us extra reach, as we don't use cards in our graveyards anyway. Extra bonus in sacrificing this to Falkenrath Aristocrat for a +1/+1 counter which could be relevant in finishing the game.
Vampire Interloper: 2/1 flier for 1B. He isn't spectacular since he is basically a crappier Stormfront Pegasus, but it is what it is. Play 2-4 if you desire.
Stormblood Berserker: 1R for a 1/1 or 3/3 that needs to be blocked by 2 or more creatures. He isn't a Vampire, but it is a solid card. It isn't really advisable to run this card too much if you want Bloodline Keeper to be flipped often, though.
Bloodcrazed Neonate: 1R for a 2/1 that grows bigger but has to attack each turn. This is generally a bad thing, but you could use it to your advantage by pressuring your opponent by giving them information that they have a 2/1 / 3/2 / 4/3, etc. coming at them every turn. Plus, it gets larger quicker with Rakish Heir, and is pretty monstrous with any other lords out. I also like it better than Child of Night, since it actually grows, giving it a bit more resilience. At the very least, this card can trade with relevant creatures. This card gets a lot better when you have Stromkirk Captain out. First strike makes it quite deadly.
Markov Blademaster: 1RR for a 1/1 double strike. This card would be amazing without Gut Shot and Vapor Snag being so heavily played. It gets monstrous if you have a Rakish Heir out and is just better when you have lords out.
Rakish Heir: 2R for a 2/2 that makes all Vampires you have get bigger when they connect. Essentially a conditional lord for the deck. It applies to himself too, so it’s not too bad of a choice. However, he’s not so great at a stalemate or facing bigger creatures. It is nice that it makes your creatures that connect bigger on their own, though.
Stromkirk Captain: 1BR for a 2/2 first strike. Pretty powerful for its cost and he's only an uncommon. This makes our creatures better attackers and can even attack and defend well himself to where you have a wall of first strikers to just take down a creature before it can even deal damage. Obvious 4-of.
Adaptive Automaton: 3 for a 2/2, the lord for any tribal deck. While he seems pretty unimpressive, the static +1/+1 is a lot more reliable than the other conditional boosts. This also gives your creatures more resilience, which is pretty necessary in my opinion. I think too many "regular Lords" for the deck is a bad idea, though, since they are mediocre topdecks.
Bloodline Keeper / Lord of Lineage: 2BB for a 3/3 flier than transforms into a 5/5 flier. Already aggressively costed, his abilities put him a bit over the top. Making more creatures is always great, and the fact that he can then give a static +2/+2 to all other Vampires you control is powerful. You can essentially make him a 2BBB lord if you have enough creatures out, too. Not that this is always necessary to do, however. Do not forget that you can activate his Transform at instant speed! Many times I have made a 2/2 flier and transformed, allowing me to block with a 4/4 or greater flier and just won the next turn. The only problem with this card at the moment is that it is a bit slow for what it does.
Falkenrath Aristocrat: 2BR for a 4/1 flier that can be Indestructible. Obviously a lot better when we have a lord out to get out of Gut Shot range. If it was a 4/2, it would be so much better... Still, this is very aggressive and I would include 2 for now. Think of it as a persistent Ball Lightning that flies.
Olivia Voldaren: A win condition all on her own. 2BR for a 3/3 flier that gets rid of small chump blockers and gets larger in the process. If she faces a foe that is larger than her, simply ping them a few times to get bigger, or just take control of them. A fairly powerful card once you untap with it for sure. She is definitely a little slow, however. She might not belong in this deck other than in the sideboard at best.
Other cards worth mentioning:
Child of Night: 1B for a 2/1 lifelink is decent at best. She is much too fragile, although the Lifelink is very tempting. She may be added over Vampire Interloper if you want.
Crossway Vampire: 1RR for a 3/2 with a somewhat useful ETB effect. Stopping a blocker for a turn can be crucial in a game-winning swing, and it’s also a creature. However, I think that if an effect of this sort is necessary, Traitorous Blood out of the board is a bit stronger to give you that extra damage anyways. The card is also too slow and trades with a lot of things that are played in the format, actually. It also does not actually get rid of the problem at hand.
Erdwal Ripper: 1RR for a 2/1 haste that has the ability to get bigger once it connects. I think Markov Blademaster is just better than this card since so many things can block this. For a card that costs 3, you typically don't want this to be the case unless it is very strong.
Falkenrath Noble: 3B for a 2/2 flier with a powerful effect. However, he simply costs too much and competes with a few other amazing cards: Bloodline Keeper, Olivia Voldaren, and Falkenrath Aristocrat. While I do like that he punishes your opponents for blocking and rewards you for destroying their creatures, he just costs too much. If only it was a 2 or 3 drop… You could maybe find a way to put him in, but then you lose a bit of aggressiveness.
Falkenrath Marauders: 3RR for a 2/2 hasty flier that gets bigger twice as it connects. For this deck, I don’t really like using such high-cost creatures and I think he isn’t as good at creating advantage as Olivia or Bloodline Keeper. Card is definitely cool, but just costs too high for this deck in my eyes. It might be nice to experiment with it, though.
Bloodlord of Vaasgoth: 3BB for a 3/3 or 6/6 flier that gives Vampires we cast Bloodthirst 3. Personally, I feel like this guy comes out too late. He doesn't have a major impact in our deck and we play the early to mid-game too much to benefit from his late-game effect.
Tezzeret's Gambit: 3 and 2 life to draw 2 cards, along with a bonus of proliferation. This synergizes well with a good chunk of the deck, and also provides some much needed refueling to the deck. After testing this card and utilizing it, it was much too slow and the cost was actually a bit steep, and a bit of a too little too late. More removal helps the deck much more.
Arc Trail: Removal that can potentially kill 2 creatures. This is just what the deck wants to allow our creatures to get through in the early game. 2-for-1s are always great, and this is no slouch. Definitely want 3 or more, unless you're in a Control-filled meta, but even then, it hits Snapcaster Mage, albeit a little late.
Dismember: One of the best removal spells printed due to its flexibility. This is card gets rid of nearly all creatures, and is a very good inclusion to the deck. Really, it fits in virtually any deck. However, since you are in black, you can play better removal spells. You may want this in the sideboard, however, as it is the best removal spell against Mono-Black Infect.
Go for the Throat: Another solid removal spell to clear the path. Simply destroys a non-artifact creature that might be too big for our small guys to handle. It's a powerful spell for sure. Use a mix of this, Doom Blade, or Victim of Night.
Doom Blade: Essentially a card to deal with Wurmcoil Engine. Perhaps Sever the Bloodline could see play as a solution as well; I actually really liked that card. This card is a great answer to Inkmoth Nexus, however.
Victim of Night: An incredibly flexible removal spell since no one actually plays Vampires, Werewolves, or Zombies competitively. The only problem is Phyrexian Crusader in top tier decks. Use it as your chance to essentially have a card that says "Destroy target creature" if Infect is not huge in your area. The BB cost is a bit prohibitive, but that's the price you pay for flexibility. If you can fit it in, play it.
Brimstone Volley: A 3 damage or 5 damage burn spell that can give serious reach and provides us answers to Mirran Crusader. It's a bit expensive, though, thus me preferring Incinerate.
Other cards worth mentioning:
Altar's Reap: Draw 2 cards for 2 mana, but needs a creature to be sacrificed. I personally don't like this card as it can be a horrible top deck, which draw spells shouldn't be. You also don't really want to be sacrificing your creatures, as you're a creature-based deck anyways.
Geth's Verdict: Gets around hexproof guys. Could be a viable piece of removal if you go against a lot of these, but keep in mind that there are lots of instant-speed token producers that can just ruin your day. There's also the fact that decks play other creatures. Grave Titan laughs at this card as well.
Tribute to Hunger: See above. Some life gain instead which could be relevant, but I think the 1 more mana could be backbreaking.
Incinerate: Straightforward 3 damage to target creature or player. It can be pretty effective if you want extra cheap burn, but I think actual removal spells are again better. I like Brimstone Volley a bit more as well.
Volt Charge: 3 damage with a bonus to proliferate. It isn't terrible, but it is kind of expensive for what it does.
Desperate Ravings: Instant speed card draw, but it requires you to discard a card at random, in which case there is really no card advantage. I don't really like this card that much because of the high variance factor, but some may like it.
Vampiric Fury: This card may find its way into lists in the long run, as this can be similar to an Overrun for Vampires. The fact that it is instant speed could also account for a few surprise wins as well, but it is strictly a win-more card. Pass on it for now. Plus, Stromkirk Captain gives you first strike right now anyways.
Curse of the Stalked Prey: I like this card, but not in this deck to due it being a weak topdeck and diluting the amount of creatures we run. Plus, Rakish Heir already does a good job of pumping our guys, and he's a creature too.
Contagion Clasp: Perhaps too "cute" of a card to include, but it is sort of removal and could be a card worth putting into the deck later on. If you plan on utilizing the deal-damage-get-bigger creatures, this is certainly an option.
Stensia Bloodhall: A land that gives us some pretty good reach if needed. It's uncounterable damage as well. Since the current Vampires have less strict mana costs, this is a card should easily fit in. However, playing Victim of Night and this card can be somewhat dangerous. I think that this card could find its way in later. The unfortunate thing is the card essentially reads 4BR for 2 damage, however.
Ghost Quarter: This is a potential card to include to get rid of Moorland Haunt and other cards of the sort, but it is pretty weak as it's card disadvantage. I would stay away from this card, since there's better cards to use.
Dragonskull Summit: Dual land, so obviously include this card or you're just crippling yourself.
Blackcleave Cliffs: See above.
Manic Vandal: Artifact hate in creature form is not too bad. Still I might prefer the instant-speed of Ancient Grudge or Crush at cheaper mana costs.
Despise: Gets rid of creatures and planeswalkers before they can even hit play. However, I feel like they shouldn't even be too much of a problem since you have removal, and planeswalkers, while good, aren't as threatening anymore with the loss of Jace Beleren. Gideon Jura is still intimidating as ever, though, so it could be a plausible choice. On the other hand, no decks really play Gideon Jura anymore, so that's pretty good for us! Sadly, not as good as Duress.
Distress: At 1 more mana, this spell hits everything that isn't a land. I think the flexibility is worth the extra cost, although if you board this in, it most likely dilutes your creature-base a little. Still an option.
Slagstorm: I'm pretty unsure about this card. If your guys are big enough, or you are too behind, this could be good, but I don't think it really warrants sideboard slots sadly.
Traitorous Blood: I think this card is stronger than Act of Aggression due to the addition of Trample. A stolen Wurmcoil Engine or Grave Titan is pretty back-breaking, since they have deathtouch and can trample a good amount of damage through.
Surgical Extraction: Free information and gets rid of problem cards that have already been somewhat dealt with. Still, it's worth a thought.
Geistflame: A 1 damage burn spell that could be used twice. It seems good in theory, hitting Inkmoth Nexus, Plague Stinger, Viridian Emissary, Birds of Paradise, Llanowar Elves, etc. It is only good at that, though, I would say. A card to consider for sure.
Ancient Grudge: I would splash Green in the deck just to make your Tempered Steel match-up better. This card helps a lot, destroying essentially every card in their deck.
Nihil Spellbomb: Graveyard hate at its finest. You can even draw a card off of it since you're in black. This could be a pretty good card to use.
Bump in the Night - Lightning Bolt to player is very nice. Is also "Loses life" which is great. Flashbackable
Altar's Reap - Card draw is beast, MOAR GAS
Volt Charge - Proliferate on all you +1+1 counters? Please
Curse of Stalked Prey - MOAR +1+1 COUNTERS?
Overall, I like the idea and where your deck is heading. I really hope it can become competitive. I think that the Bloodcrazed Neonate is pretty crappy, as well as Crossway Vampire. I also don't like Desperate Ravings, I think Alter's downside is much more tolerable than discarding the random card. 4 Adaptive doesn't feel right either, but I don't have another idea atm on what to put in its place.
Keep in mind that in the Standard environment, "loses life" is actually a downside, because it can't hit planeswalkers. It used to be that there were any number of damage prevention effects that lifeloss could get around, but nowadays there aren't many of those and the ability to affect planeswalkers is much more relevant.
GUBFog MillBUG
BURMostly Black Control (Grixis)RUB
About all the complaining with the DFC in INNISTRAD...
I agree that Neonate isn't that great either, but I like it better than Child of Night because it can grow and puts on some pressure.
Bump in the Night: I'm not trying to be similar to the old BR Vampires; there's not enough low-cost creatures to do this. So, I've decided to use the Bloodhall as late game reach instead.
Altar's Reap: While this is certainly an option, I don't want to be sacrificing creatures when I am trying to get Bloodline Keeper transformed as early as possible to bring on the pain.
Volt Charge: I thought about it, but it's a little too slow for the deck. Yes, the proliferation is nice, but there are better spells for that added bonus. Tezzeret's Gambit, for example, as a draw spell is a bit more reliable.
Curse of Stalked Prey: The deck needs more creatures, rather than a spell that's a bad topdeck. The Rakish Heir is essentially the same thing on a stick, so it's better I would say.
I could just up the Gambits to 4 and add in some Child of Nights to make the lifeloss a little less negligible. The Automatons may not be right for the deck; I agree.
Thanks for the input guys; let's see if we can refine the deck a bit more!
4 Stromkirk
4 Child of the Night
4 Rakish Heir
4 Bloodline Keeper
3 Olivia Voldaren
2 Inferno Titan
4 Dismember
4 Go For the Throat
4 Shock
Sorcery:
3 Distress
4 Blackcleave CLiffs
4 Dragonskull Summit
10 Swamp
6 Mountain
The reasoning for my list are:
Stromkirk: Hits early and gets bigger with time
Child: A good 2 drop body with lifelink gets bigger with Rakish Heir.
Rakish: I was Iffy about this guy at first too, but when you drop him he absolutely makes this deck better.
Bloodline: Makes 2/2 fliers and later makes your creatures bigger
Olivia: She is Really hard to deal with if she hits the field unanswered. gets a +1/+1 counter for two and her second ability has more uses than it seems at first.
Inferno Titan: Hes a titan
Shock: Helps your stromkirk hit turn two and plus, it's freaking shock lol
Dismember/ Go for the throat: No explanation needed
Distress: Good against any deck for getting rid of threats before they hit the table
I feel there just isn't that much room for Olivia, but I guess it's possible to squeeze her in. I don't like the inclusion of Inferno Titan; he's better in a different deck. Obviously he's good but he's pretty high on the curve.
Shock is awful. I would rather play Arc Trail to get rid of up to 2 blockers. I also feel that 12 removal spells are too much. You need some form of draw power as you might run out of gas. Distress is an option, but I am unsure of what to take out.
4x Bloodcrazed Neonate
4x Vampire Interloper
4x Lord of Lineage
2x Falkenrath Maurauders
2x Falkenrath Noble
2x Olivia Voldaren
4x Shock
3x Arc Trail
3x Go For The Throat
3x Distress
2x Incinerate
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
2x Stensia Bloodhall
7x mountain
6x swamp
3x Doom Blade
3x Manic Vandal
2x Dismember
3x Despise
1x Arc Trail
3x Vampiric Fury
Thoughts?
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Rakish Heir
4 Child of Night
4 Bloodline Keeper
4 Vampire Interloper
Artifacts (4)
4 Shrine of Burning Rage
Spells (14)
4 Dismember
4 Incinerate
2 Doomblade
2 Go for the Throat
2 Brimstone Volley
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
7 Swamp
7 Mountain
2 Olivia Voldaren
2 Doomblade
2 Arc Trail
2 Slagstorm
2 Go for the Throat
2 Manic Vandal
3 Falkenrath Maruader
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
@Murdox: I thought about trying to include it into the deck, but then you run into the issue in that it doesn't help when we are behind and is not so great of a topdeck. It's better to keep our "boosts" in creatures.
@Sentou Ryoku: I don't like the Marauders. 5 for a 2/2 that could die to Shock just seems bad. Sure, he can grow quickly, but I'd rather just have Olivia. I feel you need some lower cost creatures to make Bloodline Keeper transformed earlier. The Falkenrath Noble is awesome because it punishes the opponent for blocking with small guys, but I feel that Olivia works better as an alternate win condition. I don't think the deck wants too many high cost creatures. If only he cost 1BB or 2B...
Also, I feel that you have too much removal and not enough creatures. You probably want some draw spells, too. Consider upping the land count to 24 to reliably hit 4 mana on turn 4.
@Xover: There's 70 cards in your deck list I think. I would cut Shrines and some removal to make the deck draw a bit more consistently.
Shrines are there to give more reach to the deck, being that the vampires themselves do not have the same speed the past vampire decks have had and people will have an easier time dealing with the vampires.
The removal is very much needed. This is a very Slighish type build with the vampires being 1 drop, 2 drop, 3 drop, 4 drop but need some extra reach as well.
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
I don't know, I still feel like Vampiric Fury might have a place in the deck. That being said, I think it will depend a lot on how the meta develops. Are we going to see more aggro decks? I kind of think so. I think there will be some control, but I think it will be more aggro oriented than in the past incarnations. The fact that Vampiric Fury gives Vamps a boost, first strike, and is an instant, can cause any aggro deck a ton of problems. As an opponent, am I willing to risk blocking or not blocking? Tough choices.
4x Stromkirk Noble
4x Child of Night
4x Vampire Interloper
4x Bloodcrazed Neonate
4x Rakish Heir
3x Bloodline Keeper/Lord of Lineage
3x Bloodlord of Vaasgoth
4x Shock
3x Arc Trail
3x Dismember
2x Curse of Stalked Prey
Lands: 22
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
4x Dragonskull Summit
8x Swamp
6x Mountain
4x Go For The Throat (Direct Sideboard Out For Shock/Arc Trail)
4x Manic Vandal (Great Artifact Hate + Body)
3x Traitorous Blood (IMO better than Act of Aggression)
2x Hex Parasite (Hex Mage Replacement)
2x Olivia Voldaren (Mirror Match)
Yeah, Traitorous Blood may finally be better than Act of Aggression again, now that Splinter Twin is rotating out.
The problem comes in that it costs 3 black, so it doesn't play friendly with the increased reliance on red mana. Grave Titan is sadly, strictly better. Because it supplements your board presence every turn, with an ETB effect that makes removal of him not that scary.
If anything, I think Reaper would be good for drawing removal away from your Vampires, because your opponent can't afford to have him stay on the field and be punished every single time something dies. He's a good pressure card, but I doubt many will choose him over Grave Titan.
Stromkirk Noble is all we really have as far as great cards at the bottom and a lot of good vampires at the top of the curve.
Vampires we would love to play with:
Bloodlord of Vaasgoth
Olivia Voldaren
Falkenrath Marauders
Bloodline Keeper // Lord of Lineage
Rakish Heir
Maybe Sengir Vampire and Sangromancer, too.
-----------------------
Let me ask you guys this, how bad would it be playing a Curse of Stalked Prey/Volt Charge/Tezzeret's Gambit with an awkward mana curve? Taking starting hands knowing you're likely not going to "go off" until you really build?
Example:
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Stensia Bloodhall
14 Swamps/Mountains
One
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Curse of Stalked Prey
4 Go for the Throat
Three
4 Volt Charge
4 Tezzeret's Gambit
4 Rakish Heir
2 Adaptive Automaton
4 Bloodline Keeper // Lord of Lineage
2 Olivia Varden
Five
2 Bloodlord of Vaasgoth
2 Falkenrath Marauders
-----------------------
If that's truly messed up and awkward, what kind of a consistency hit are we taking going with a Heartless Summoning vampire build with no one drops? Our 3 casting 5 drops are great, maybe even a little better, being 2 mana cheaper with a -1/-1 counter to start them off. I hate utilizing Adaptive Automaton, but it's really hard to keep the curve low trying to play with decent vampires. The 6 lords are probably better in this deck negating the -1/-1 counter. The 6 lords, also, only come down for 1 mana the turn after Heartless Summoning drops. That's praying you draw 1 of the 4 Summonings by 2 mana, which is likely, but doesn't happen often enough to be really troublesome.
For example:
Turn 1 - Land
Turn 2 - Land, Heartless Summoning
Turn 3 - Land, Option A - three 3 drops, Option B - one 4 drop and one 3 drop, Option C - one 5 drop
Truthfully, I would like to playtest both just to see if they're even possibly consistent. I have a bad feeling they probably aren't.
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Stensia Bloodhall
14 Swamps/Mountains
Two
4 Heartless Summoning
4 Go for the Throat
2 Doom Blade
2 Adaptive Automaton
4 Rakish Heir
4 Tezzeret's Gambit
Four
4 Bloodline Keeper
2 Olivia Varden
2 Sengir Vampire
4 Bloodlord of Vaasgoth
4 Falkenrath Marauders
I'm constantly editing the first post and have begun to attempt to work at a small primer of sorts for this deck.
More removal spells is better, without being able to rely on the CA of Squadron Hawk, even control decks will have to play more creatures. Without Jace Beleren and Preordain, controlly decks will be sparse and uncompetitive at first. The format will be much more creature heavy, making things like Arc Trail must plays.
Play Liliana of the Veil or die. It is another way to dominate against the control decks(the +1 is REALLY strong), pretty good against other creature decks(edict-effect also hits Hexproof guys, which matters with Invisible Men, Patron Saint, and Illusions). The ultimate doesn't really happen alot(you don't want to +1 that much), but I'm pretty sure everyone realizes how backbreaking it can be.
Play Ghost Quarter or look stupid(4 Quarter, 2 spell-land has been testing best for me). Still having the SOM lands and M12 lands makes our mana still very good, we can afford the colorless sources, and Moorland Haunt is pretty hard to beat in a sword based deck.
MY most successful lists have looked very 23 land, ~18 spells, ~18 guys in proportions.
Hero of Oxid Ridge, while not a Vampire, must be considered. Timely Reinforcements is still a card.
Agree, or don't. I'm just trying to provide information.
Current Standard:
Boros
Current Legacy:
Merfolk
UW Stoneforge
MonoUDelver(in progress)
Umm slagstorm, Arc Trail, Black Sun's zenith all take care of invisble man
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Maybe you should reread the creature. He has this ability. Starts with Hex. Ends with Proof. Good luck on that arc trail.
Also not white weenie, so we aren't an aggressive deck that will play sweepers because we have this awesome token recovery engine. MAYBE Slagstorm, depending on the meta, but I will be playing none of these sweepers to start. The package involving Verdicts, Arc Trail, Brimstone Volley, and Shock have been going best.
Current Standard:
Boros
Current Legacy:
Merfolk
UW Stoneforge
MonoUDelver(in progress)
Black Sun's Zenith could be an okay solution. Your +1/+1 counters will just override them in the long run, anyways.
The Hero could be an option. I prefer Olivia, though, just because she's a Vampire and wins all on her own. Maybe this is the wrong direction, but we won't know until next week.
As for the "sacrificing creatures" effects, I don't know how much I like them. Gatekeeper of Malakir was excellent since he was in a creature form, but Geth's Verdict is iffy. Plus, they have ways to make tokens to mitigate the effect, and well, they play Timely Reinforcements. Cool sacrifice card. It's worth looking into, though.
As others have stated, Black Sun and Slag Storm deal with spirits very well. Also, the Invisible Men decks will suffer from an inability to trade with Vampires. Invisible Man can swing for 2 a turn for an early advantage, sure. But if all they do is swing with their unblockable creatures that leaves them wide open for our Vampires to get bigger, and bigger, and bigger still. Late game, we trounce the Spirit deck.
I agree with this, Arc Trail is pretty much a must play right now. Considering it's the only truly effective defense against a Human Weenie Swarm.
I sincerely doubt that Lilianna is a "Play or Die" ultimatum. I could be wrong, but she seems like a Blue/Black control girl more than a Vampire girl. For the aggressive archtype we're going for, Rakish Heir is the better three drop.
I think this is a meta call, but you're probably right. Originally I didn't think much of Ghost Quarter due to the fact that Manlands are going out. But I think it's at least worth sideboard consideration in case you run into those Sword decks.
Eeehhh, I disagree. For the most part BECAUSE Hero is not a vampire, and we already have Lord of Lineage (or Falkenrath Noble, if you're trying to relive the glory days of Kalastria Highborn) for 4 drops. I don't think the Hero fits here.
The biggest problem with this kind of build, is that it doesn't matter how big we get our Vampires, a single field wipe spell equals good game. We're not as versatile anymore where our opponent could DoJ as we laugh and pay mana into Kalastria, sacrifice to Viscera Seer and chortle our way to victory. Focusing the deck on Proliferation with Tezz's Gambit and Volt Charge might be a way to get around this, this they offer card advantage and board control even without the proliferate. But that's going to have to wait on playtesting before we know for sure.