i posted this in the speculation thread but since innistrad has been fully revealed then i believe i/we can start a discussion if this would be an ok or competitive deck
or i could put in Nihil Spell Bombs to answer those decks relying on graveyard interactions
objective is to put out early creatures into play but not everything, chimeric mass is there in case a board sweeper comes in, these creatures proliferate quite fast with the help of everything from instants/sorcery/enchantment/creature/artifact
i think the synergy of the cards are good with one another, tumble magnet can do wonderful things in the board, either stopping the pods and the titans at their feet, clasp or engine can do the rest if game takes too long (which i would prefer if the game would end sooner than later)
I ways thinking of a similar build, in fact. But, I would add some more "aggro" blue creatures like Phantasmal Bear and Delver of Secrets. Ponder will help enable the Delver to rig you draws to help him transform. Invisible Stalker doesn't feel like it fits. Contagion Engine is too slow. Mana Leak > Negate. Chandra, the Firebrand and Chandra's Phoenix can go places with this deck, especially when you double proliferate and deal 6 with Volt Charge. Snapcaster Mage and another burn spell like Incinerate can really help here.
my idea wasnt really aggro all the way, just needed to get a counter or two in the beggining, and eventually pump them up via proliferate spells and contagion engine, i was imagining a Invisible stalker with counters... getting very fat along with the other creatures with counters... thrumingbird could also be a killer since he flies and proliferates on his own when hitting the opponent. i chose negate over mana leak since i only intend to counter non creature spells like artifacts and mass removals
chandras phoenix seems nice, will look into it on how i can put it in there
chandra fireband... maybe... duplicate proliferate spells perhaps adding her more loyalty counters and proliferating the others too... will dwell upon this idea
im really not a fan of the phantasmal bear, unless he's in a illusion deck, wouldnt he die of the proliferate ability? being targeted and all?
EDIT: On another note, what about replacing some of the Steady Progresses with more [CARD]Tezzeret's Gambit/CARD]s? I think that the life loss is worth it for the extra card it draws.
Also, I think that the negates could easily be mana leaks. Since this seems to be an early-game beast type deck, the ability to counter creatures makes it basically counterspell.
Bear would get a counter and not die, if that's what you mean. Its another way to enable Stormblood, which is really what you want- an early thirsty Berserker that grows.
I have done a lot of tinkering since proliferating has come out with many different colours and builds! I'll give some insight in what I've found!
Unfortunately we lost everflowing chalice, which was the bread and butter of most of my builds (Surge nodes + chalices get's out of hand really fast, pretty much free ramp...)
I feel Chimeric Mass deserves a spot here. He is very easy to get big fast with proliferate (especially if you can get the surge nodes in there), can be dropped for free with the nodes, and he dodge's days of judgement.
Tumble Magnets win games. That is all. Get some on the main board. Especially if you can fit the nodes in there.
Contagion Clasp really slows down the tempo of some of the faster decks. (1/1 goblin guides and dead elves don't worry you as much) It's also some nice early on board proliferate, which works really well with the blue back if you're planning on running some counters, as with instant speed Steady Progress, you can really keep your oppenent guessing as to what you're leaivng your mana opened up for.
Inkmoth is good in pretty much any prolif deck, but it doesn't quite seem like it fits with what you are trying to do here, but also another option to consider.
Lux cannons blow pemanents away left right and center when you are proliferating, again, made ridiculous by the surge nodes NP brought us. My current proliferate version runs 4 of these which cause many-a-pick-up.
Also treasure mages can be handy for finding your Engine's. I usually run a bit of a "treasure box" of 6+'s to search out for depending what i'm playing, usually consisting of Contagion Engines/Wurmcoil Engines (for aggro)/Steel Hellkite/Mindslaver.
This list is out-dated as of innistrad release (only due to chalices at the moment, but they really help this deck get off fast) and is monoblue, but it can give you an idea of some of the strong interactions I've found:
4x Inkmoth Nexus
3x Phyrexia's Core
Whatever's left for islands
Basically spend first couple turns setting up with chalices/clasps/nodes then just start firing and proliferating. Drop mages for blocking and tutoring. I've untapped 4th turn with 10 mana available before... Can set up a nice Ish Sah/Metamorph/Phyrexia's core combo for blowing a permanent away a turn, on top of the lux cannons chilling and proliferating.
Obviously not what you are looking at here, but perhaps something here might be of help!
Proliferate is probably my favourite mechanic these days, and I'm always looking for new ways to abuse it!
Forking Volt charges/Tezzerets gambits/Steady Progress's can be ridiculous too. I can see my list easily transferred over to a more U/R version, which honestly, would probably help more against the aggro match up with the burn.
Inkmoth certainly has a place here next to Thrummingbird and Curse, especially since the Nexus maintains counters when its back to being a land. With Inkmoth and Thrummingbird swinging together with Curse on the board, that's already two counters on your opponent. Next turn, Inkmoth is adding two and suddenly your halfway there. Next attack is game. Inkmoth + Thrummingbird + Curse = three turn clock.
@RR3Rhoads - thank you very much, very helpfull information
inkmoths, i'll have to have some luck if i can get my hands on them, very hard to buy and very expensive in our community
surge node - looks awesome, but i think i should get the counters from tez gambit/volt charge and steady progress, adding it would somehow deviate from the original plan, or i just dont know what to remove in its place, would have been great with chalice but its gone, but we'll see what happens
chimeric mass - why did i forget about him... doj cant kill him... will put him there somewhere
thanks again for the inputs, now i cant sleep >.< need to think this over
Inkmoth certainly has a place here next to Thrummingbird and Curse, especially since the Nexus maintains counters when its back to being a land. With Inkmoth and Thrummingbird swinging together with Curse on the board, that's already two counters on your opponent. Next turn, Inkmoth is adding two and suddenly your halfway there. Next attack is game. Inkmoth + Thrummingbird + Curse = three turn clock.
yeah i was thinking about this earlier while driving and was like "teh hell am I thinking? Inkmoth is great in any prolif. I scooped up 4 of them as soon as besieged came out. I remember how big blinkmoth was in mirrodin.
I can't stress how great tumble magnet is in proliferate. REally helps decks form being able to drop that bomb and push over for the win. And its sexy as **** against titans.
I can see a mix of tumble magnets, burns, Chandras, mixed with the Tezz gambits and a few of those creatures. Like I said forking a chandra with a gambit or progress is gross. Yeah, Okay, I'll -2 her to give her 2 more counters, and draw FOUR cards. NBD.
with R/U theme i had in mind, im starting to lose hope with invisible stalker, since he's a 2 drop and theres already stormblood and thrumingbird in that spot...
At first thought I'd go something like:
2x Stormblood berserkers
3x Arc Trail
3x New Chandra
3x Tezzerat's Gambit
3x Tumble Magnet
2x Steady Progress
4x Volt Charge
4x Curse of the Stalked Prey
4x Stormkirk Noble
2x Falkenrath Marauders
4x Invisible Stalker
Invisible stalker could also be the thrummingbirds... I had bad experience with thrummingbirds back when squad hawks ruled the skies haha. I think they are both good in this deck, but we will see enough proliferate with our volt charges/tezzie gambits/Steady progress's that we can neglect the thrummers. Perhaps even a couple contagion clasps, or an engine if you felt it was lacking.
Arc trail is also huge with chandra, turns the early aggro card into a better midrange creature killer, or 6 to the dome (i think, i can't remember if you can choose the same player for both targets, i looked it up once). Not bad utility.
Chimeric Mass is still an option, I just think he'll be a bit slow without surge node (and chalices for that matter) backing him up.
also just saw this in another thread, but brimstone volley could be great too. 3cmc for 3 damage, 5 with morbid. 10 with morbid and a chandra. nuts.
also how do you make the decklists not ghetto like mine? haha never posted here before today.
Please do not double post, instead edit the original post.
Helix
chimeric mass cant be DoJ'd so im keeping him in SB or somewhere there, i dont need to attack with him, unless needed, if not then tumble magnets will do the defending for me, but when board gets whiped, chimeric mass with massive counters on it will do the job
I think Grimoire of the dead would be a great card to use in the sideboard for the control match up that runs mass removal.
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Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
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Yea, those are MTG Bars. What can I say, I am a dork
chimeric mass cant be DoJ'd so im keeping him in SB or somewhere there, i dont need to attack with him, unless needed, if not then tumble magnets will do the defending for me, but when board gets whiped, chimeric mass with massive counters on it will do the job
i'll be back in 10mins...
good point. Remember, tumble magnets can be used proactively too. Save some burns in hand to tap out some creatures and swing through for some early pressure. You can get much more value out of them later if you stick a Chandra.
I'd probably just run
4 inkmoth
3 Ghost Quarters
4 Sulfur Falls
then islands and mountains as you see fit for your build.
sorry for the double post, but contagion engine is really slow for this kind of deck, and its 6 to cast, although the effect would be awesome when it gets in, but its already mid game and i should have prolifirated a lot already by that time, thus making engine redundant and not serve its purpose? i'll try with clasp instead since i only have 3 cards 4 to cast drops 2 marauders and 1 grimoire
I decided the sacrifice the proliferation and net card advantage for the instant speed and flashbackable Desperate Ravings. The curve is overall very low- which seems ideal for a deck like this; it wants to be fast. The power behind the deck is a turn two thirsty Stormblood, everything else is primarily there to support him while being decent cards on their own. Thrummingbird is probably the weakest creature here, but his proliferation will be key to victory. Snapcaster supports the burn suite and countermagic. Chandra's Phoenix is a nice little hasty flyer that can come back courtesy of the burn suite.
The only thing now is to test it and weed out the bad cards.
overhauled version
2 Invisible Stalker
4 Stormblood Berserker
4 Stromkirk Noble
3 Thrummingbird
3 Phantasmal Bear
Enchantment (4)
4 Curse of Stalked Prey
Sorcery (2)
2 Tezzeret's Gambit
Artifact (8)
2 Contagion Clasp
3 Tumble Magnet
1 Grimoire of the Dead
2 Chimeric Mass
5 Island
9 Mountain
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Steady Progress
4 Volt Charge
3 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Slagstorm
3 Dismember
1 Grimoire of the Dead
2 Spellskite
or i could put in Nihil Spell Bombs to answer those decks relying on graveyard interactions
objective is to put out early creatures into play but not everything, chimeric mass is there in case a board sweeper comes in, these creatures proliferate quite fast with the help of everything from instants/sorcery/enchantment/creature/artifact
i think the synergy of the cards are good with one another, tumble magnet can do wonderful things in the board, either stopping the pods and the titans at their feet, clasp or engine can do the rest if game takes too long (which i would prefer if the game would end sooner than later)
so, what do you think?
chandras phoenix seems nice, will look into it on how i can put it in there
chandra fireband... maybe... duplicate proliferate spells perhaps adding her more loyalty counters and proliferating the others too... will dwell upon this idea
im really not a fan of the phantasmal bear, unless he's in a illusion deck, wouldnt he die of the proliferate ability? being targeted and all?
EDIT: On another note, what about replacing some of the Steady Progresses with more [CARD]Tezzeret's Gambit/CARD]s? I think that the life loss is worth it for the extra card it draws.
Also, I think that the negates could easily be mana leaks. Since this seems to be an early-game beast type deck, the ability to counter creatures makes it basically counterspell.
Modern: B/W Tokens
I am a DCI rules advisor.
Unfortunately we lost everflowing chalice, which was the bread and butter of most of my builds (Surge nodes + chalices get's out of hand really fast, pretty much free ramp...)
I feel Chimeric Mass deserves a spot here. He is very easy to get big fast with proliferate (especially if you can get the surge nodes in there), can be dropped for free with the nodes, and he dodge's days of judgement.
Tumble Magnets win games. That is all. Get some on the main board. Especially if you can fit the nodes in there.
Contagion Clasp really slows down the tempo of some of the faster decks. (1/1 goblin guides and dead elves don't worry you as much) It's also some nice early on board proliferate, which works really well with the blue back if you're planning on running some counters, as with instant speed Steady Progress, you can really keep your oppenent guessing as to what you're leaivng your mana opened up for.
Inkmoth is good in pretty much any prolif deck, but it doesn't quite seem like it fits with what you are trying to do here, but also another option to consider.
Lux cannons blow pemanents away left right and center when you are proliferating, again, made ridiculous by the surge nodes NP brought us. My current proliferate version runs 4 of these which cause many-a-pick-up.
Also treasure mages can be handy for finding your Engine's. I usually run a bit of a "treasure box" of 6+'s to search out for depending what i'm playing, usually consisting of Contagion Engines/Wurmcoil Engines (for aggro)/Steel Hellkite/Mindslaver.
This list is out-dated as of innistrad release (only due to chalices at the moment, but they really help this deck get off fast) and is monoblue, but it can give you an idea of some of the strong interactions I've found:
4x Surge Node
4x Everflowing Chalice
3x Contagion Clasp
2x Treasure Mage
3x Chimeric Mass
3x Phyrexian Metamorph
3x Tezzeret's Gambit
4x Steady Progress
2x Tumble Magnet
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Contagion Engine
1x Spine of Ish Sah
4x Inkmoth Nexus
3x Phyrexia's Core
Whatever's left for islands
Basically spend first couple turns setting up with chalices/clasps/nodes then just start firing and proliferating. Drop mages for blocking and tutoring. I've untapped 4th turn with 10 mana available before... Can set up a nice Ish Sah/Metamorph/Phyrexia's core combo for blowing a permanent away a turn, on top of the lux cannons chilling and proliferating.
Obviously not what you are looking at here, but perhaps something here might be of help!
Proliferate is probably my favourite mechanic these days, and I'm always looking for new ways to abuse it!
Forking Volt charges/Tezzerets gambits/Steady Progress's can be ridiculous too. I can see my list easily transferred over to a more U/R version, which honestly, would probably help more against the aggro match up with the burn.
inkmoths, i'll have to have some luck if i can get my hands on them, very hard to buy and very expensive in our community
surge node - looks awesome, but i think i should get the counters from tez gambit/volt charge and steady progress, adding it would somehow deviate from the original plan, or i just dont know what to remove in its place, would have been great with chalice but its gone, but we'll see what happens
chimeric mass - why did i forget about him... doj cant kill him... will put him there somewhere
thanks again for the inputs, now i cant sleep >.< need to think this over
yeah i was thinking about this earlier while driving and was like "teh hell am I thinking? Inkmoth is great in any prolif. I scooped up 4 of them as soon as besieged came out. I remember how big blinkmoth was in mirrodin.
I can't stress how great tumble magnet is in proliferate. REally helps decks form being able to drop that bomb and push over for the win. And its sexy as **** against titans.
I can see a mix of tumble magnets, burns, Chandras, mixed with the Tezz gambits and a few of those creatures. Like I said forking a chandra with a gambit or progress is gross. Yeah, Okay, I'll -2 her to give her 2 more counters, and draw FOUR cards. NBD.
Trade Thread
Standard
UB UB Control UB
UW UW Pristine Control UW
UW Venser Control UW
False. That card is garbage.
also troll. I almost shat when I saw this card.
with R/U theme i had in mind, im starting to lose hope with invisible stalker, since he's a 2 drop and theres already stormblood and thrumingbird in that spot...
will surely add inkmoth if given the chance
2x Stormblood berserkers
3x Arc Trail
3x New Chandra
3x Tezzerat's Gambit
3x Tumble Magnet
2x Steady Progress
4x Volt Charge
4x Curse of the Stalked Prey
4x Stormkirk Noble
2x Falkenrath Marauders
4x Invisible Stalker
Invisible stalker could also be the thrummingbirds... I had bad experience with thrummingbirds back when squad hawks ruled the skies haha. I think they are both good in this deck, but we will see enough proliferate with our volt charges/tezzie gambits/Steady progress's that we can neglect the thrummers. Perhaps even a couple contagion clasps, or an engine if you felt it was lacking.
Arc trail is also huge with chandra, turns the early aggro card into a better midrange creature killer, or 6 to the dome (i think, i can't remember if you can choose the same player for both targets, i looked it up once). Not bad utility.
Chimeric Mass is still an option, I just think he'll be a bit slow without surge node (and chalices for that matter) backing him up.
also just saw this in another thread, but brimstone volley could be great too. 3cmc for 3 damage, 5 with morbid. 10 with morbid and a chandra. nuts.
also how do you make the decklists not ghetto like mine? haha never posted here before today.
Please do not double post, instead edit the original post.
Helix
chimeric mass cant be DoJ'd so im keeping him in SB or somewhere there, i dont need to attack with him, unless needed, if not then tumble magnets will do the defending for me, but when board gets whiped, chimeric mass with massive counters on it will do the job
i'll be back in 10mins...
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
good point. Remember, tumble magnets can be used proactively too. Save some burns in hand to tap out some creatures and swing through for some early pressure. You can get much more value out of them later if you stick a Chandra.
I'd probably just run
4 inkmoth
3 Ghost Quarters
4 Sulfur Falls
then islands and mountains as you see fit for your build.
also this. didn't put any thought into sb but this could sure fit there. Act of aggression probably wouldn't be a bad choice either.
3 Invisible Stalker
4 Stormblood Berserker
4 Stromkirk Noble
3 Thrummingbird
2 Falkenrath Marauders
Enchantment (4)
4 Curse of Stalked Prey
Sorcery (2)
2 Tezzeret's Gambit
Artifact (8)
2 Contagion Engine
2 Chimeric Mass
1 Grimoire of the Dead
3 Tumble Magnet
5 Island
9 Mountain
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Inkmoth Nexus
Instant (8)
4 Steady Progress
4 Volt Charge
1 Grimoire of the dead
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Slagstorm
3 Dismember
3 Spellskite
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Phantasmal Bear
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Thrummingbird
4 Stormblood Berserker
2 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Curse of Stalked Prey
Instants
4 Mana Leak
4 Volt Charge
3 Incinerate
2 Desperate Ravings
3 Chandra, the Firebrand
Land
4 Sulfur Falls
2 Shimmering Grotto
7 Mountain
5 Island
3 Inkmoth Nexus
I decided the sacrifice the proliferation and net card advantage for the instant speed and flashbackable Desperate Ravings. The curve is overall very low- which seems ideal for a deck like this; it wants to be fast. The power behind the deck is a turn two thirsty Stormblood, everything else is primarily there to support him while being decent cards on their own. Thrummingbird is probably the weakest creature here, but his proliferation will be key to victory. Snapcaster supports the burn suite and countermagic. Chandra's Phoenix is a nice little hasty flyer that can come back courtesy of the burn suite.
The only thing now is to test it and weed out the bad cards.
Its being reprinted.